Approaches to Islamic Heritage: Asharite, Hanbalite and Maturidite Aqeedah (2022-09-29) #

0:00:00 oh
0:00:20 foreign
0:00:22 how are you guys doing and welcome to
0:00:25 year two term one lesson one of uh the
0:00:30 landrea or you can say the Sapient
0:00:32 Institute program and this program is a
0:00:34 three-year program as many of you may
0:00:37 know
0:00:37 and last year what we covered in the
0:00:39 nine months that we were doing the work
0:00:40 was the londonia which was the main
0:00:44 refutational piece that sapiens
0:00:46 Institute had taken out or had put out
0:00:50 and then after that there was a kind of
0:00:51 like an appendix series to that which is
0:00:53 called the Shovelhead Series where in
0:00:55 which we discussed some of them some of
0:00:57 the main contentions uh that non-muslims
0:01:00 and others or ex-muslims or
0:01:02 um people who are anti-muslim would put
0:01:04 forward against Islam and this of course
0:01:07 is something you can still watch on the
0:01:09 sapiens Institute YouTube channel now if
0:01:11 you are aware also we have a platform
0:01:14 where sapiens e-learning platform and on
0:01:17 that platform it's actually a test now
0:01:18 for the London air so if you wanted to
0:01:20 test your knowledge to see where you
0:01:22 stand in terms of um uh of your actual
0:01:26 grasp security of knowledge in these
0:01:29 areas then go ahead and go ahead and
0:01:32 take the test everyone here has taken
0:01:34 the test and passed passed with good
0:01:36 grades so the cohort will be with me
0:01:39 again obviously the same cohort that we
0:01:41 were with us in the last year including
0:01:44 Ali dawa himself who's uh thankfully
0:01:48 passed the test as well
0:01:52 [Laughter]
0:01:54 so that's that's these are the updates
0:01:57 if you like and before I get started
0:01:59 with today's kind of session which will
0:02:01 be more Interactive inshallah
0:02:03 what we wanted to say is as we're doing
0:02:06 this program there's an expectation for
0:02:09 us to also be doing Quran
0:02:11 to be sharpening up our Arabic skills to
0:02:13 be sharpening up Fick or Jewish prudence
0:02:16 and these things as well because the
0:02:17 soul wants to come out and do dawa then
0:02:19 this is the most important thing in fact
0:02:22 to memorize the Quran to understand it
0:02:23 to be able to read it
0:02:25 these are very important things okay so
0:02:27 I would suggest that we do that side by
0:02:30 side
0:02:32 in The Institute we've already got
0:02:33 programs in place for people in The Coho
0:02:35 cohort that um you know reading and
0:02:38 memorizing Quran and so on but that's
0:02:40 something that there's a lot of
0:02:42 provision for quite frankly
0:02:44 we've got critical content which if
0:02:46 someone cannot access for whatever
0:02:48 reason
0:02:50 um cannot access you know the
0:02:53 um a mosque or an institution which
0:02:55 deals with that you can go to critical
0:02:56 content which we have Quran all these
0:02:59 kinds of things you can do side by side
0:03:01 with this and the website for that is
0:03:03 critical content dot org now
0:03:07 move on
0:03:10 what we're going to be doing at
0:03:11 Insha'Allah we're looking at today is
0:03:13 we're going to be looking at some of the
0:03:16 main creedal developments now you will
0:03:18 know
0:03:19 that Sunni Islam you can look at it in
0:03:21 two different ways
0:03:23 one way is jurisprudentially from a law
0:03:25 perspective from a fix perspective
0:03:28 and we all know that there are four main
0:03:31 schools of thought now there weren't
0:03:33 only of four schools of thought there
0:03:35 were much more than four but these are
0:03:37 the surviving schools which have long
0:03:39 Traditions attached to them as you may
0:03:42 know this is the Maliki School let's
0:03:44 start with the hanifi school the Maliki
0:03:45 School the chef high school and the
0:03:47 Hambly School
0:03:49 after the names of the founders of these
0:03:52 particular schools of thought
0:03:54 and there's limited controversy relating
0:03:56 to this in other words if someone says
0:03:58 I'm sure or I am merely key or I am
0:04:01 hamberly or I am hanafi this doesn't
0:04:04 generate a kind of con controversiality
0:04:07 I mean these are well known within the
0:04:10 tradition to be four different distinct
0:04:13 schools of thought which bring about the
0:04:16 same kind of objective
0:04:18 and so in many ways you won't find
0:04:20 anything controversial you know anything
0:04:23 worthy of major mention between these
0:04:26 four schools of thought which will
0:04:28 divide communities say
0:04:30 and so the focus of this topic is not
0:04:33 about the the schools of thought today
0:04:37 we're going to be looking at the creedal
0:04:38 schools of thought
0:04:39 and we're going to be looking
0:04:40 particularly at three main schools of
0:04:43 thought
0:04:44 one of them is humbleism otherwise known
0:04:46 as authorism sometimes referred to as
0:04:50 sometimes also referred to as the
0:04:51 salafiakida
0:04:53 now salafism
0:04:57 is different to groups who refer to them
0:04:59 thus themselves in that way
0:05:02 so we are not talking about this group
0:05:05 or that group who refer to themselves in
0:05:07 these titles that may reside in a
0:05:09 subcontinent or the UK or the us we were
0:05:11 talking about the original
0:05:13 which is referred to as hamburger so
0:05:17 we're going to be taking a look at that
0:05:18 the books its proponents its Founders
0:05:21 and these kinds of things
0:05:23 we'll also be looking at
0:05:25 asharism which in many ways in many of
0:05:29 the institutions could be considered to
0:05:31 be the majority in terms of the
0:05:33 Intelligentsia for example the deoband
0:05:36 institution is ashari uh for example
0:05:39 Azhar in Egypt is ashari inclined or
0:05:43 majority I could say uh you know and so
0:05:47 on in if you go to North Africa most of
0:05:50 the institutions of calorie is ashari
0:05:52 and so on uh even Mauritania you'll find
0:05:55 that the scholars there are ashari so
0:05:58 it's important for us to know what is
0:05:59 this ashari where does it come from
0:06:00 how's it differentiated from humbleism
0:06:05 um you know these kinds of things and
0:06:07 the third thing is we're going to be
0:06:09 looking at metolidism which is very very
0:06:11 closely connected to ashathism however
0:06:14 there are some differences between metal
0:06:16 aqueda and asharayakida which we'll be
0:06:18 looking at in some some
0:06:21 generalities I'm not going to say in
0:06:23 some detail but if one knows if one is
0:06:26 familiar has some level of grasp
0:06:29 between these three different kinds of
0:06:31 creed then one has a road map for the
0:06:35 creedal developments or the creedal
0:06:37 differences between the major schools of
0:06:39 thought in Islam and before I continue I
0:06:42 should also say that
0:06:43 uh it shouldn't not be imagined
0:06:45 demographically that throughout the
0:06:47 Muslim world that people if you ask them
0:06:49 are you ashari or are you meridi or are
0:06:51 you humble yourself or whatever they'll
0:06:53 say they'll give you an answer to this
0:06:54 question
0:06:55 because the truth is
0:06:57 as was once stated by a great scholar
0:07:01 the Layman has no meth up
0:07:04 the Layman has no matter if you go to
0:07:06 London or anywhere where there's a
0:07:08 Muslim Community and you ask 10 people
0:07:10 what which one do you follow what is the
0:07:12 difference between more salafism he I
0:07:15 promise you they will not know
0:07:18 they will not know
0:07:20 the majority of people do not know that
0:07:22 there's no evidence to show that the
0:07:23 majority of people know that stuff
0:07:25 because a lot of this stuff is actually
0:07:26 quite complicated not all of it is but a
0:07:28 lot of it's quite complicated and it
0:07:31 should not be assumed and this is very
0:07:32 important in the outset it should not be
0:07:34 assumed that if you don't know this very
0:07:36 specific
0:07:37 detail or Masala an issue of creed that
0:07:40 you're going to go to the Hellfire
0:07:42 although it's something that's going to
0:07:43 happen to you that you're not on the
0:07:45 right path or whatever
0:07:46 these are
0:07:48 uh bullying tactics that are done by
0:07:50 people of all different types of creedal
0:07:52 school of thought or if you don't
0:07:54 believe in this and that
0:07:55 and they they position this especially
0:07:57 to lay audiences these are bullying
0:07:59 tactics
0:08:00 and they have no hustle in the religion
0:08:02 they have no Foundation the religion
0:08:04 because these a lot of these
0:08:05 conversations that were had in The
0:08:07 Classical period in the medieval period
0:08:09 were in fact conversations which were
0:08:12 for the academics and intelligence
0:08:14 even Tamia was once asked why'd you go
0:08:17 into detail about these issues and he
0:08:19 goes Allah I only go into details on
0:08:21 these issues
0:08:22 because people ask me about them but I
0:08:25 did not intend that for the late
0:08:26 audience
0:08:28 he said I did not intend these details
0:08:30 of akhida for the late audience
0:08:32 when the prophet Muhammad was asked what
0:08:35 is Iman what is the what is Faith he
0:08:38 said
0:08:43 he mentioned six pillars of Iman six he
0:08:46 didn't go into details and you have to
0:08:47 believe in this and that and all of that
0:08:48 and you know this and this scholar said
0:08:50 that and you have to know that he didn't
0:08:51 go into this
0:08:53 and then he was asked again
0:08:56 what is uh Hassan he said and and
0:09:01 that you worship Allah as if you can see
0:09:03 him because if you can't see him he can
0:09:05 see you very basic anybody a farmer can
0:09:08 understand that a car mechanic can
0:09:09 understand it somebody who's working
0:09:11 fishmonger can understand it
0:09:14 that's it there's no the religion of
0:09:17 Islam is not complicated like that
0:09:20 it really isn't the basis the or the
0:09:24 basics of the religion of Islam are very
0:09:26 easy for anybody to understand having
0:09:30 said that of course there have been some
0:09:32 controversy controversies within Islam
0:09:34 throughout the 1200 300 years of its
0:09:38 development and we should be privy to
0:09:40 that and understand it because this uh
0:09:42 for us for our purposes is important
0:09:46 so we should start with saying the
0:09:49 following we should start by saying that
0:09:52 if you look at the early and I will be
0:09:54 making some claims here which maybe some
0:09:56 people will not find comfortable or
0:09:58 whatever but I think everything can be
0:09:59 substantiated
0:10:02 unfortunately for those who may claim to
0:10:04 the contrary there was no such thing as
0:10:06 Mercedes in the first 200 years because
0:10:10 he didn't exist you know and neither
0:10:15 Didi those individuals existed in the
0:10:18 4th Century ah before that
0:10:22 there were you can say Proto
0:10:26 pseudo
0:10:28 um Kalam type
0:10:29 efforts made with smlc fat and so on
0:10:32 with names and attributes of God but it
0:10:34 wasn't the fully fledged ashari medhab
0:10:36 or the fully fledged metal what you find
0:10:38 in the first couple of hundred years
0:10:40 is a clear kind of scripturalism
0:10:42 you you find this very very clearly
0:10:45 scripturalism meaning that people would
0:10:47 not go into a long discursive discussion
0:10:50 unspeculative theology that they would
0:10:53 mention if they were asked questions
0:10:54 they would mention very brief answers in
0:10:58 fact if you look at the
0:11:00 um the main works like for example
0:11:04 this is one of the books actually
0:11:06 authored the bukhari who is the same
0:11:09 we read his and so on he also this book
0:11:14 and in it he wanted to exonerate himself
0:11:16 from the charge that he believes that
0:11:17 the Quran was created and so he put just
0:11:19 he lists
0:11:21 a quail of the all the sayings
0:11:24 of uh salaf of of the Companions and the
0:11:27 the tabain and so on
0:11:30 mentioning their position on the matter
0:11:32 meaning he he relegated the matter to
0:11:35 people who he thought he was more senior
0:11:36 than himself This Is How They dealt with
0:11:38 their situation
0:11:39 likewise with the situation of where is
0:11:41 God which has become a very
0:11:42 controversial matter he had a very clear
0:11:44 position which is that he believed God
0:11:46 was above the throne which is the
0:11:47 scriptural position which is the
0:11:48 authority position which is the habit
0:11:49 and you will not find many people
0:11:52 speaking in the coded syntax of the
0:11:55 asharis in the early days I mean it's
0:11:57 almost impossible to find
0:11:58 but this is a reality and it's a
0:12:00 historical reality unless someone wants
0:12:01 to fabricate or superimpose history on
0:12:04 onto the first 200 years of Islam which
0:12:07 which would be false
0:12:11 and so if you wanted to look at um some
0:12:15 books from the first two three hundred
0:12:17 years of Islam maybe even 400 years
0:12:20 of the humble yakida
0:12:25 actually I'm not going to mention of the
0:12:28 hamburger but generally we're talking
0:12:30 about uh Sunnah of
0:12:33 Imam Ahmed now if you look at there was
0:12:36 a development in his works
0:12:38 there was a clear development in his
0:12:40 Works in first when he was talking about
0:12:42 when he was when he wrote which by the
0:12:45 way I have to be honest and say there is
0:12:46 a contestation on its attribution to him
0:12:50 there is some level of contestation of
0:12:52 his attribution to him
0:12:56 this particular book
0:12:59 there is some contestation on uh is
0:13:01 attributed to um
0:13:04 is actually not there's not much
0:13:06 controversy there but if you look at the
0:13:08 transition between Sunnah versus
0:13:14 that particular transition you can see
0:13:17 that he was very conservative in the
0:13:19 beginning of dealing with matters
0:13:20 related to speculative Theology and then
0:13:24 that moved forward into a more
0:13:28 critical non-scripturalist attitude and
0:13:30 in fact I did manage to find and I've
0:13:33 sent it to you guys in the group I'm not
0:13:34 sure if you guys have it maybe we'll put
0:13:36 it up on the thing but I did manage to
0:13:39 find the quote of his where he he
0:13:41 actually gives the reasoning for that so
0:13:43 I remember ahm has given the reason for
0:13:44 that and he says that the reason why I
0:13:46 we when we were compelled when we were
0:13:49 asked to
0:13:52 to get involved in that kind of
0:13:54 discussion we did
0:13:56 when we were when we had to do it we did
0:13:58 it so in other words there was more of a
0:14:00 conservative attitude in the beginning
0:14:01 from Ahmad
0:14:02 and then he said you know when we were
0:14:04 pushed to do it because we don't want to
0:14:06 get involved in this kind of thing
0:14:07 but when we were pushed to do it we got
0:14:09 involved in it
0:14:10 which refutes the idea
0:14:13 that the early salaf they didn't engage
0:14:15 in critical thinking outside of a
0:14:17 scriptural basis it completely nullifies
0:14:19 the idea and you'll see if you read
0:14:21 al-jami you'll see making logical
0:14:25 arguments uh non-scriptural in in
0:14:26 content
0:14:29 so even within uh you know an academy
0:14:34 who came after Muhammad really opened
0:14:37 the floodgates for this especially his
0:14:38 responses to the martasillas and stuff
0:14:40 that he was he was engaging now with
0:14:42 almost completely with it with these
0:14:43 kind of things and obviously at the time
0:14:45 of the britainia we find
0:14:47 full full-on full-fledged philosophy
0:14:49 works of philosophy being produced
0:14:52 I mean if you if you were to say what is
0:14:53 a specialist in I would actually say
0:14:55 he's a specialist in Kalam he's a
0:14:58 specialist in kalaman fatwa these are
0:14:59 his two main areas of specialism You
0:15:01 could argue everything else but these
0:15:02 are two main areas especially so every
0:15:04 time we are engaged in philosophy and
0:15:06 there's only a fool would would say he
0:15:08 didn't and in fact he quite clearly
0:15:11 as stated his position about that and
0:15:13 we've made videos and all that kind of
0:15:15 thing and quoted him at length Yanni on
0:15:17 these points which doesn't we don't need
0:15:18 to talk about that
0:15:21 but you'll see that there's different
0:15:22 attitudes within the hambley school
0:15:24 especially if we for example look at the
0:15:26 works of abuela and his because his
0:15:30 student
0:15:31 okay
0:15:33 were accused of being asharis at one
0:15:36 point
0:15:37 because of how you know
0:15:40 philosophical being and so on and so
0:15:42 that show that in the early days there
0:15:44 was some tension going on here people
0:15:46 were suspicious suspicious
0:15:48 about the use of and their positions of
0:15:51 tafoid and so on and but the point is
0:15:54 others like al-harawi he wrote a book
0:15:56 called the sensor of Kalam then
0:15:59 you will find this
0:16:01 you know al-bar Bahari is very hardcore
0:16:04 and scripturalist in in his his Works
0:16:08 many was very very
0:16:11 you know he affirmed you know he
0:16:14 affirmed you know the attributes in a
0:16:15 very
0:16:17 in fact even affirmed attributes which
0:16:20 are not mentioned and he was refuted for
0:16:22 that like for example he said haraka
0:16:24 that God moves but there's no
0:16:27 anyway the point is
0:16:30 you'll find in the Corpus of humbly
0:16:32 scholarship a development towards or
0:16:34 movement towards a more critical
0:16:36 attitude
0:16:37 towards these kinds of things
0:16:40 any questions so far before we move on
0:16:42 statements
0:16:57 yes so you'll find if you're speaking to
0:16:59 salafi people that they'll mention these
0:17:01 books of salaf a lot of the time
0:17:05 you know these individuals it's very
0:17:08 important to realize that although even
0:17:10 bhatta is very important to us okay and
0:17:12 so is
0:17:13 they're not turbine and they're not Yani
0:17:15 they are not Ahuja without respect to
0:17:18 them
0:17:19 in fact like for example and even Bata
0:17:23 those two individuals who keep being
0:17:26 mentioned because I mean they say things
0:17:28 about uh for example Hakim and stuff
0:17:31 like that you know mana and not allowed
0:17:33 to do these kind of things which are
0:17:35 useful to certain agendas and certain
0:17:38 people
0:17:40 um there were contemporaries with which
0:17:43 we were just talking about before the
0:17:44 taping of this thing
0:17:46 yeah so IBN has him was a free thinker
0:17:48 but much more so than even
0:17:50 in many other ways yeah and that's not
0:17:52 to be taken only positively because
0:17:54 we're very negative like sometimes a
0:17:55 open-minded it can be like an open wound
0:17:57 sometimes
0:17:59 I'm not saying it's positive thing but
0:18:01 he's completely different
0:18:02 has him versus
0:18:06 you know but they were kind of like
0:18:07 we're in the same generation we're
0:18:09 talking about so to mentioned that
0:18:14 you know and so on so okay we say fine
0:18:17 but when did
0:18:19 their words become meaning is it when
0:18:22 did it become equivalent
0:18:24 to what Allah said of the messenger said
0:18:26 no one equated that even what the sahaba
0:18:29 said
0:18:30 in fact
0:18:31 in fact
0:18:34 or the saying of the sahabi is
0:18:39 from the sharai things which there's a
0:18:42 difference for opinion whether you take
0:18:43 it or not in other words if IBN said
0:18:45 something big sahabi come said something
0:18:52 telling you something
0:18:54 there's a difference of opinion whether
0:18:55 we should take it and we should
0:18:57 establish a ruling with the owner so if
0:18:59 that is the case with one sahabi imagine
0:19:01 how you bring me even like okay
0:19:04 I'm sorry to say yes I'm not saying
0:19:06 they're nullified or they're very not
0:19:07 important but Bahari is not important is
0:19:09 not important but that's not important
0:19:11 but since when did they become a hot
0:19:12 gender religion of Islam
0:19:15 so if people are using them as evidence
0:19:17 as if it's equivalent to the Quran look
0:19:20 what they said about look what they said
0:19:22 about this matter look what they said
0:19:23 about that matter we say it's little
0:19:24 evidence
0:19:25 if I rejected everything in bhatta said
0:19:28 that was yeah I mean there was no age
0:19:29 Mound anything that his of his own juice
0:19:33 potential preference I've done no sin
0:19:39 and moreover you'll find that people use
0:19:43 the
0:19:46 German the issue of they will use
0:19:50 the
0:19:51 um
0:19:52 how would you translate how would you
0:19:54 translate
0:19:55 jar has maybe the screw yeah maybe yeah
0:20:00 scrutinizing negatively scrutinizing uh
0:20:03 people yeah but then to write them off
0:20:06 in a sense
0:20:08 to give them jarah yeah
0:20:11 they'll use that as a as an Evidence to
0:20:13 do tabdia some of them will do that
0:20:15 they'll say Okay therefore we can do
0:20:16 which is to
0:20:18 to create to make someone or declare
0:20:20 someone as a deviant someone is
0:20:24 they'll do this and they say look this
0:20:26 person has made the obvious person that
0:20:28 person made up the other that person
0:20:29 in the early setup but some people
0:20:31 hanifa
0:20:34 um
0:20:38 no one was not spoken about the issue of
0:20:42 almost no one at that time was not so
0:20:44 only a few
0:20:45 the issue of
0:20:47 uh let's use the the attitude of people
0:20:50 in the early days when they were just
0:20:52 writing down Hadith
0:20:54 they were writing down Hadith they knew
0:20:56 that their writing down of the Hadith
0:20:57 would constitute the foundation for all
0:20:59 other generations to try and use their
0:21:01 methods their historically scrutinizing
0:21:04 methods on the lay population this is
0:21:06 something outrageous
0:21:09 you know in Saudi Arabia too many of
0:21:12 them seem to see us like a pope figure
0:21:14 that he said this is uh something which
0:21:16 is not it's not acceptable
0:21:18 to be completely fair to him
0:21:20 so the point I'm making is one one sees
0:21:23 one looks at the salaf
0:21:25 one must be the conclude three things
0:21:28 quite strongly number one they didn't
0:21:30 have this especially on issues with
0:21:31 mouse effect they did not have this uh
0:21:34 very um
0:21:37 elaborative
0:21:40 phraseological what is the Kalam of God
0:21:43 what is the Kalam of God didn't say it's
0:21:45 not distance negative negative like what
0:21:46 you'd find in ashari books and that is a
0:21:49 provocative statement but it's just not
0:21:51 there
0:21:52 it it might be provocative for some
0:21:54 people it's just not there I mean you
0:21:56 will not find buhari speaking like that
0:21:57 and you will not find them Ahmad
0:21:59 speaking like that you will not but at
0:22:01 the same time so that's one thing but at
0:22:03 the same time this other myth which is
0:22:04 that they didn't engage in uh extra
0:22:07 scriptural polemics is also false
0:22:10 movie even even in the first book that
0:22:13 he wrote which is Sunnah he he even
0:22:16 talked about something called ola
0:22:18 she's a type of analogical reasoning
0:22:21 it's a type of reasoning which is not
0:22:24 necessarily scriptural and basis but
0:22:25 then he expanded that in his later works
0:22:27 and he and he mentions that and
0:22:29 Khalil is one of the main people who
0:22:31 actually one of his main students and
0:22:33 codify his works
0:22:34 one of the main people is Khalil
0:22:37 and the other person is
0:22:40 so yeah he moved he changed and then we
0:22:43 completely opened the door
0:22:45 and so that's the second mistake we can
0:22:48 bust the third one is
0:22:50 this idea of taking Tab Diya from the
0:22:52 early generation
0:22:54 but their situation number one was
0:22:56 completely different
0:22:58 number two some of the tab Dias we
0:22:59 reject anyway
0:23:00 like for example
0:23:05 for example of buhari and great Scholars
0:23:09 Nativity of these people I'm not even
0:23:10 going to mention who they are because I
0:23:11 don't want to
0:23:12 create controversy online okay
0:23:15 but if we can reject those great
0:23:16 Scholars
0:23:19 who who doesn't who would not be an
0:23:21 atom's weight of you know knowledge
0:23:23 compared to any of these great salaf
0:23:26 which is on the mission I'm sure
0:23:28 so no that's the truth if we can reject
0:23:31 the tab Dr of the great Scholars of
0:23:33 salaf
0:23:35 even even albani
0:23:38 foreign
0:23:58 because then they'll disqualify everyone
0:24:01 else from being a scholar and so it
0:24:03 becomes my dad is bigger than your dad
0:24:07 anyway moving on
0:24:09 from the south we do find a lot of these
0:24:11 things
0:24:15 but then we find
0:24:19 The Works of ibentamia
0:24:23 and he CR I've personally believe he
0:24:25 created a paradigm shift
0:24:27 even Tamia created a paradigm shift in
0:24:29 asari
0:24:30 um
0:24:32 you know creedal development
0:24:35 because you just opened parent doors box
0:24:39 kind of worms in fact no sorry not one
0:24:41 kind of woman see he had a table full of
0:24:43 worms kind of worms and he opened all of
0:24:45 them
0:24:46 he got he engaged in super rational
0:24:49 polemics that no one from the humbly
0:24:52 mother before him ever did in the way
0:24:54 that he did it
0:24:56 nobody did like him whether you agree
0:24:58 with him or not on his issues or his
0:25:00 stances that's what he done
0:25:03 and even take me I wrote many books
0:25:05 voluminous compendious works
0:25:08 is shockingly it's terrifyingly
0:25:10 voluminous
0:25:13 for example
0:25:19 these are if they were on this they
0:25:22 would take they would occupy two two
0:25:24 full uh shelves
0:25:27 and he wrote a lot of this when he was
0:25:28 in prison
0:25:29 you know the man was a wondrous man
0:25:32 was it was a phenomenal man
0:25:35 a very powerful individual and he argued
0:25:38 and he engaged with the literature
0:25:41 he genuinely engaged with the literature
0:25:43 which is why he wrote a shot actually
0:25:45 called which we went through a lot of it
0:25:47 in this class or in our other classes
0:25:51 you know it's about 260 pages
0:25:54 but he basically goes through the
0:25:56 textbook of Isfahan
0:25:59 who wrote that's very small I mean if
0:26:02 you look at that is funny that he was
0:26:04 doing um is like this big it's very
0:26:06 small but he was going he's going
0:26:08 through each part of it God's existence
0:26:10 the Oneness of God
0:26:12 the Revelation the homage is at
0:26:14 uh and and so on this was basically the
0:26:17 structure the goal wrap structure he
0:26:19 actually went through it which is why we
0:26:22 are translating this work actually
0:26:24 because it's in line with our objectives
0:26:27 is being translated as we speak Yani by
0:26:32 the sapiens Institute
0:26:34 because it's an important work
0:26:36 so that's one thing
0:26:39 he engaged
0:26:42 people don't even realize that he he
0:26:44 actually commented on scientific matters
0:26:45 even though he was no expert on this
0:26:47 matter
0:26:48 but okay wrote a book on Alchemy and
0:26:51 chemistry and so on and refuting the
0:26:53 point the refuting Alchemy
0:26:56 so he was a polymath of you know a
0:26:58 tremendous man
0:27:00 obviously you have much Mortal fatal
0:27:01 which once again this was one of his
0:27:04 great genres that he was engaged in if
0:27:07 you saw if it was on one of these
0:27:09 shelves it would take maybe one and a
0:27:10 half of the Shelf
0:27:11 so imagine how much this man wrote and
0:27:13 then you obviously have these small
0:27:14 textbooks that people read
0:27:16 which is
0:27:19 and so on so he wrote A lot of these
0:27:22 books
0:27:22 and so if someone wants to know the
0:27:25 person for the most part if someone
0:27:26 wants to know the position of Atari
0:27:28 Islam or the asterisk they'll look at
0:27:30 him yeah
0:27:31 there's only a few opinions which I
0:27:33 don't want to open the once again
0:27:35 another kind of worms and say that the
0:27:37 majority of others don't agree with that
0:27:39 even Tamia believed in
0:27:41 a few creedal positions and in fact I
0:27:44 might open the kind of one since we are
0:27:45 here in sapiens Institute and this is
0:27:47 why why not which is fine or not
0:27:50 the idea that he believed that the
0:27:52 Hellfire will run out
0:27:55 and people say well he didn't actually
0:27:56 believe that he changed his mind and
0:27:57 whatever but it's very clear that Imran
0:28:00 believed that he believed that believe
0:28:01 that and whatever says is usually his
0:28:04 final opinion how do we know that if you
0:28:06 look at chef
0:28:08 of the book which of the claim wrote he
0:28:11 he dedicates an entire chapter on
0:28:12 arguing the case
0:28:14 for final or not and in fact you know
0:28:16 who tries to refute him
0:28:18 he refuses he says all of the Assad he
0:28:20 brings is a week and so on it's very
0:28:23 interesting but the point is find out
0:28:24 not exactly the issue no one's making
0:28:27 because you know what the stakes are how
0:28:29 you make the deal of him when he's the
0:28:30 one who you know brought the
0:28:32 sledgehammer on all of the opponents
0:28:33 which you can never bring
0:28:36 because it's one of the pillars of Iman
0:28:38 which is you know which is the Hellfire
0:28:43 you see you don't always make a temp
0:28:44 there are no one when the salary
0:28:45 movement
0:28:47 I know of I'd love to see someone from
0:28:49 the any of the sects of salafism Stripes
0:28:52 different Stripes say well because of
0:28:53 this he's going to come off
0:28:55 sometimes when somebody Escala does such
0:28:58 a great work
0:28:59 he actually gets immunity from certain
0:29:01 things
0:29:07 okay now someone's not saying he's not a
0:29:09 shouting here okay fine that means I can
0:29:11 say believe that and Azul is the angels
0:29:13 and then he's not Ashland you're making
0:29:16 you're making hasharism you're making a
0:29:18 salafism even include these positions
0:29:19 and you can believe in this difference
0:29:21 opinion is it then no it's not he wasn't
0:29:23 ashari he or at least he put at least at
0:29:28 least
0:29:28 he he possessed some major archery
0:29:31 positions
0:29:33 it's the minimum we wanted to say about
0:29:34 but because he he's done fatal Berry
0:29:37 great work people say no just leave him
0:29:41 well then what we're going to do when we
0:29:42 need to do
0:29:44 I know we same thing we're gonna do now
0:29:47 these two we don't want to touch them
0:29:49 we're not going to go to the other uh to
0:29:51 the Hadith we're not going to get rid of
0:29:53 this how do you say this one
0:29:55 so once again the point is is um
0:30:01 okay
0:30:04 yeah
0:30:07 even take me out completely
0:30:10 shifted the paradigm another work which
0:30:13 we we also looked at in our spare time
0:30:16 was suffered I suffer there very
0:30:18 interesting and long work
0:30:22 I mean the interesting thing is he's
0:30:23 actually a comparative religionist he
0:30:25 got involved and that's why he wrote a
0:30:27 job
0:30:29 which was a refutation of Christianity
0:30:32 foreign
0:30:34 pretty much mimicked him in many of the
0:30:35 things that he did like if you want to
0:30:37 know what Infamous positions are on
0:30:39 Creed then 99.9 of the time is going to
0:30:42 be able to climb his positions as well
0:30:47 not all of them take me as students are
0:30:49 like that
0:30:51 so some of his students like for example
0:30:52 he was critical of him Elizabeth
0:30:56 he was yes he was in asari but he wasn't
0:30:59 engaged in that same kind of polemics
0:31:00 that yeah Evan Tammy was engaged in
0:31:04 he was even accused of being a Shiite
0:31:06 but he wasn't a Shiite to be fair to him
0:31:09 but he was completely he was a bit
0:31:11 lacking him that hasn't in the sense
0:31:12 that if you look at uh Bulbul
0:31:17 would you call it a Tuffy writes
0:31:22 the guy's clever the guy is actually a
0:31:24 genius
0:31:26 but he and he doesn't care what even
0:31:27 Timmy has to say
0:31:29 and some of them don't care like from a
0:31:30 50 perspective most of the school they
0:31:32 respect him
0:31:34 you know he's very special Islam they
0:31:37 call him
0:31:38 in abbreviation
0:31:41 however some of them just hand wave his
0:31:43 opinions whatever
0:31:47 it's literally
0:31:49 yeah yeah whatever you know and we don't
0:31:52 for example in the case of third three
0:31:53 divorcements the case of three
0:31:55 divorcements No One Believes In that
0:31:57 exception he said okay
0:32:00 his granddad uh he done
0:32:04 he told him in a secret modulus that you
0:32:07 know three is one
0:32:09 but basically the entire school go and
0:32:11 look from from the times of the mother
0:32:13 all the way to elmerdale and so on
0:32:15 you're not going to find anyone who says
0:32:17 this but this is a matter three divorces
0:32:19 in one which is very controversial
0:32:21 and in fact yeah if you follow Montana
0:32:24 you're not doing a sin
0:32:26 it's a major major matter imagine a
0:32:28 woman some guy you know
0:32:30 especially this apparently it's a big
0:32:31 thing in the ending the subcontinent
0:32:32 subcontinent and whatever and he says
0:32:34 you're divorced a million times
0:32:36 I don't know why he had to say this but
0:32:38 he means it and he says you're the horse
0:32:40 a million times all the madhubs the
0:32:42 martaba opinion is that she's actually
0:32:43 divorced three times and she has to go
0:32:45 and marry another man and sleep with the
0:32:47 other man
0:32:48 yeah I mean and that's why they've
0:32:49 created this Halala programs and
0:32:51 whatever which is Haram and obviously
0:32:52 the prophet has a thing but I've been
0:32:54 telling me I use even even our best
0:32:57 and so on and he uses arguments from
0:32:59 himself and he actually makes a
0:33:00 compelling argument like I'm not saying
0:33:02 I agree on not anyone to agree or
0:33:04 disagree but I'm just saying he had that
0:33:05 opinion
0:33:06 and now if people follow his opinion
0:33:08 which is that three in one or a million
0:33:10 and one is actually just one
0:33:13 then they're not they can live like that
0:33:15 that's not they're following a mustache
0:33:18 so in terms of the sociological
0:33:20 landscape
0:33:21 you could I I think I had a friend of
0:33:24 mine who was doing a thesis on how he's
0:33:25 made lives of women easier
0:33:28 basically because that is a factor that
0:33:30 you can imagine right
0:33:32 will change the game in terms of
0:33:35 the Muslim Community
0:33:37 and I even had a Visa going to salafis
0:33:40 for this fatwa
0:33:43 you know that's what I hear
0:33:45 but but it's it's a in terms of he
0:33:49 wasn't although he had different
0:33:51 opinions and stuff like that from the
0:33:52 rest of the method he wasn't as as
0:33:54 influential as he was in in Creed in his
0:33:56 own School in his own school he was he
0:33:58 was the major
0:33:59 like for example if not saying me of our
0:34:01 times like in the last 50 34 years yeah
0:34:04 if you want to know what even Tamia's
0:34:06 opinion is on a critical matter just
0:34:07 look what nothing means that for most
0:34:09 cases 99.9 or 99.1 let's say there's a
0:34:13 few matters which are not the case he
0:34:15 goes directly to Batavia and he finds
0:34:17 the matter there
0:34:18 so it's like copy and paste
0:34:20 sorry to say
0:34:21 and that's no disrespect to if nothing I
0:34:24 like I love nothing but I think he's a
0:34:26 very you know great scholar
0:34:28 but if you want to know what even Tamia
0:34:30 believes look at nothing
0:34:31 there's no Yani
0:34:34 he's not doing any gymnastics also he's
0:34:36 just looking at what time you said and
0:34:37 he agrees with it
0:34:38 he trusts him
0:34:40 so he's he's
0:34:42 been taking me as um
0:34:45 ebuntamia's uh his influence is so
0:34:47 widespread and that's why now they're
0:34:48 starting to look into him in the western
0:34:50 Academy like John Hoover and stuff like
0:34:51 that they're starting to look into him
0:34:52 and write books about him and stuff
0:34:54 he's a he's a big name and in fact
0:34:57 he talks about things which no one else
0:34:58 talked about
0:35:01 these things which we've discussed in
0:35:03 the class before but like no Salah spoke
0:35:06 about it no Sarah spoke about it it's
0:35:08 his position and and the thing is like
0:35:10 for example nominalism
0:35:12 that is a pure philosophical opinion
0:35:15 normalism the idea that the particulars
0:35:17 are the only things that they are and
0:35:19 they're all conceptualism pull it
0:35:20 conceptualism is he argues for
0:35:22 conceptions I mean he argues against
0:35:23 certain things on the base of
0:35:25 conceptualism
0:35:26 but that's a pure philosophical opinion
0:35:28 now unless you know that this is
0:35:30 getting this from his uncle
0:35:33 he even taped me up he's getting this
0:35:35 from his brain
0:35:37 yes then then you won't be able to
0:35:40 distinguish what even take me is getting
0:35:42 from his alcohol and as a human being
0:35:43 his act and what he's getting from the
0:35:45 nurse some people just confuse the two
0:35:46 and say whatever but he's just because
0:35:48 he was a scripturalist at heart doesn't
0:35:50 mean he was a scripture this in
0:35:51 everything he did he certainly wasn't
0:35:53 and so
0:35:55 he made rational logical arguments
0:36:04 now any questions before we go to the
0:36:06 school of thought
0:36:14 divorcing
0:36:20 that free if you saved in free it counts
0:36:23 as one or is it okay one oh he believed
0:36:25 that yeah isn't it better Innovation
0:36:28 that um if you do that yeah
0:36:30 so he was against that everyone's
0:36:32 against doing it but the question so so
0:36:35 the rest of the method say that if a
0:36:37 person does it it's better but it still
0:36:38 counts
0:36:40 just like for example like he also had
0:36:43 an opinion about um divorcing your wife
0:36:45 in the in the period
0:36:46 yeah isn't that he says it doesn't count
0:36:48 the divorce doesn't count oh yeah even
0:36:51 take me it says that if you divorce her
0:36:52 and even if you meant it it doesn't
0:36:54 count if you're in a period but the rest
0:36:55 of the Hamburg school doesn't believe
0:36:56 that
0:36:57 it's never Hadith about that that if you
0:36:59 divorce your wife in um
0:37:01 I have to look into that there's
0:37:03 probably lots of Hadith on this yeah but
0:37:05 it's not it's not allowed but once again
0:37:07 does it count or not count that's the
0:37:09 question but it basically even take me a
0:37:12 school of thought in terms of divorce is
0:37:13 the most lenient in Islam
0:37:15 yeah interesting The Humble is what if
0:37:18 you if one wanted to play the game okay
0:37:21 if you want to get the most lenient
0:37:22 opinions and this is not by the way I
0:37:24 don't think this is wrong
0:37:26 actually this might sound conversion but
0:37:27 if someone wanted to be a Hambly
0:37:29 in bed
0:37:33 one could do so
0:37:36 and then but I'm not saying that one
0:37:37 should do so but the Hamilton school of
0:37:40 thought there's no contradiction here
0:37:41 because so long as it's in the same
0:37:44 bab it's not a big issue
0:37:46 uh however I'm saying that you know even
0:37:49 tell me I believed
0:37:51 three in one he didn't sorry it's not
0:37:53 it's just one he believed that um
0:37:57 if you divorce your wife from his period
0:37:59 it doesn't count
0:38:01 and the hamburgers believe that hola is
0:38:03 different from talaq
0:38:05 so if you give your wife a thousand hola
0:38:07 oh yeah that that doesn't count as one
0:38:09 of the three it's a good it's a good
0:38:11 solution for this marital issue really
0:38:13 if you think about it because it is if
0:38:15 you think about because it'd be like if
0:38:16 you follow the opinion you know when you
0:38:18 get into this argument it's usually I
0:38:19 tell Brothers the tunnock belongs to you
0:38:21 yeah if she wants to go get a holder
0:38:23 let's do it you went okay go get it hold
0:38:25 on no problem get 500 times million
0:38:27 times
0:38:29 she has to ask for it
0:38:32 yeah no problem yeah that's just to give
0:38:34 something back as well like that's how
0:38:35 it's uh that's fine whatever it is at
0:38:37 the end of the day the fact that you
0:38:38 don't destroy the maritime yeah yeah I
0:38:40 mean it leaves the door open doesn't it
0:38:41 exactly yeah exactly yeah she's gonna
0:38:43 come back anyways I mean all the others
0:38:46 by the way yeah exactly but from what I
0:38:48 remember which mother says that
0:38:50 all of them except for the Hamilton
0:38:54 all of them except humbling yeah
0:38:56 oh so if you guys call it cancel that
0:38:58 except for the Hamilton I wonder where
0:39:01 okay interesting humbly must have the
0:39:02 only one that doesn't say
0:39:04 foreign
0:39:09 okay so um
0:39:10 all right let's have a break let's have
0:39:12 a break for prayers and stuff yeah and
0:39:14 then we'll uh go to the ashram and how
0:39:17 it started and stuff like that and
0:39:18 obviously I want interaction as well
0:39:21 a little bit but we want to get a
0:39:23 roadmap first yeah well we want to get a
0:39:25 road map of what's going on because
0:39:26 right now just to summarize maybe we
0:39:28 should just just to summarize what we've
0:39:29 done is we've looked at the first kind
0:39:30 of 200 years yeah
0:39:32 like if you look there is a book in in
0:39:35 Black in Arabic it's called like Gemma
0:39:36 yeah which has all these Aquarius inside
0:39:39 of it but basically if you look at the
0:39:41 first 200 years what we have seen is
0:39:44 that the matter is quite scripturally
0:39:46 conservative there's not much
0:39:48 speculative theology going on there's
0:39:50 not much calango there's not much
0:39:51 philosophizing going on the the extent
0:39:53 to which such philosophizing speculative
0:39:56 theology is actually a part of the
0:39:57 discourse is the extent to which
0:39:59 people within that school of thought
0:40:01 think it's necessary
0:40:03 so when the matazi school or
0:40:05 proto-maticism becomes protomaticism
0:40:10 and those figures when they appear and
0:40:13 they have a very
0:40:15 they have a very staunch negative
0:40:18 attribute in negating the attributes
0:40:21 position so they'll say like you know
0:40:23 these attributes are they don't believe
0:40:25 in any of these attributes have actual
0:40:26 meaning so then there's a there is a
0:40:28 strong reaction to that
0:40:31 and so that's why you'll not find in the
0:40:32 in the first kind of 200 300 years much
0:40:35 people saying you know speaking in uh
0:40:37 philosophical terms when describing
0:40:38 issues to do with Allah's names and
0:40:41 attributes and so on to say Allah again
0:40:43 like I'll give you one just final
0:40:44 example probably one of the most famous
0:40:46 ones
0:40:48 when someone came into my Malik and
0:40:50 asked him
0:40:52 how did Allah on the throne
0:41:00 is known in language it's known
0:41:04 and he says and the howliness of that
0:41:07 this is something which we don't know
0:41:09 well and to believe in that is
0:41:12 obligatory
0:41:15 and to ask about that this is an
0:41:18 innovation
0:41:20 so the template is basically that and
0:41:23 this was the position a very
0:41:24 straightforward one-liner you know he
0:41:26 wasn't going too deep and this and that
0:41:29 quite frankly I I I I failed to believe
0:41:32 I refuse to believe
0:41:34 that the sahaba when they were praying
0:41:36 and the time when they were praying and
0:41:38 these ayat comes
0:41:41 they were thinking about all these
0:41:43 debates
0:41:45 no way
0:41:46 that's that is something which we have
0:41:48 been plagued with because of the
0:41:50 controversies of today like they were
0:41:51 thinking of this or what that no how do
0:41:53 I think about no they were thinking
0:41:55 about
0:41:59 how magnanimous Allah is how powerful he
0:42:02 is how uh you know whatever all these
0:42:04 things
0:42:06 they weren't thinking about you know he
0:42:09 said listen Jad said that and they
0:42:11 weren't thinking about that I can
0:42:12 guarantee they were thinking about that
0:42:14 but in the first 100 200 300 years there
0:42:17 was this conscriptual conservatism but
0:42:19 there was a movement away from that when
0:42:20 there was threats extraneous threats uh
0:42:22 to the Muslim Al-Qaeda and that is uh I
0:42:25 would consider that the Hamby School
0:42:27 however authorism has developed by
0:42:29 ventimia with all of his positions
0:42:31 including
0:42:32 which
0:42:35 and these other things that's not now
0:42:38 we're not this is in a sense
0:42:40 differentiated from what the self
0:42:41 believed in because this was developed
0:42:44 certain things that even Tamia spoke
0:42:46 about the self never said ever is what
0:42:48 I'm saying they never said it his
0:42:50 rationalizations instead of necessary
0:42:52 his philosophization himself said the
0:42:55 Kalam approached the selfie
0:42:58 and and so there's there is a difference
0:43:00 here I'm not saying that the position is
0:43:01 different it's just a different
0:43:03 articulation he would argue to the same
0:43:05 scriptural point but now he's arguing
0:43:07 now extra scripturally as well but the
0:43:10 points uh overlap
0:43:13 and it doesn't mean just because of
0:43:15 maintainment says something that's what
0:43:16 the self-believed this is also false you
0:43:18 know so we have to we have to be fair
0:43:21 here and just and and say that there was
0:43:24 a development of course but in
0:43:25 development approach
0:43:27 there was not a development in actual
0:43:29 belief system here like the approach was
0:43:31 what was being developed
0:43:33 and the argumentative Style
0:43:36 and some of the workings out
0:43:39 and with that
0:43:40 we conclude the first part of this
0:43:42 series oh this particular episode
0:43:45 we're going to pray and come back
0:43:50 okay now before I move on to the um
0:43:53 school of thought I think it's important
0:43:55 to note there's a bit of a controversy
0:43:56 here between asha's and assadis as to as
0:43:59 relates as it relates to what is this
0:44:02 effect so if you read like a layer is
0:44:05 like
0:44:07 this kind of like main staple book
0:44:10 that's in the managed and so on
0:44:13 and other books like it like especially
0:44:15 if you look in conjunction with like um
0:44:17 what do you call it the saraf rajouri
0:44:19 Egyptian guy you know one of the top
0:44:21 guys by his you know the last 200 years
0:44:24 something like that they have Islamic
0:44:26 Egyptian scholar that I was we were
0:44:28 looking for them anyway
0:44:31 uh but uh you'll find that for example
0:44:34 they'll say that the the attitude
0:44:36 towards this effect although the correct
0:44:39 way is
0:44:41 and there's this question of what's the
0:44:42 difference between
0:44:44 almara
0:44:47 so let me explain to you this is one of
0:44:49 the major controversies so that if you
0:44:52 look at the authority school of thought
0:44:53 what they say is
0:44:55 especially for the capital was majorly
0:44:58 developed when you see a sifa of Allah
0:45:00 if you see an attribute of God that you
0:45:03 look at it on private facial value
0:45:05 and you uh take on board out the way it
0:45:09 is
0:45:10 so for example if Allah says
0:45:15 Allah has established himself on the
0:45:17 throne they will say yes the
0:45:19 establishment is something which is true
0:45:22 linguistically and the way which which
0:45:25 we do it is something which we don't
0:45:26 know because laser chemistry
0:45:27 that we don't know how that's done okay
0:45:30 so that's the other position
0:45:32 there's two ashady positions
0:45:35 one of them is
0:45:37 to say
0:45:41 we don't know what that means exactly in
0:45:44 relation to Allah
0:45:46 it's more less controversial where Allah
0:45:49 says uh
0:45:52 yeah would you avoid we don't know what
0:45:55 that his two hands are outstretched what
0:45:57 does two hands mean in relation to Allah
0:45:59 we leave it as it is this is a tough
0:46:01 weed position we don't know what the
0:46:03 meaning is
0:46:04 this is this is an ashari position and
0:46:06 it's the position of tofuite
0:46:10 the asari position is we know what it
0:46:12 means
0:46:13 but we don't know what it means in
0:46:14 relation to Allah it has the same kind
0:46:16 of consequence
0:46:18 does this make sense it's a different
0:46:20 it's different thing but the
0:46:22 consequences we don't know what it means
0:46:23 in relation to Allah in both cases the
0:46:25 consequence is the same
0:46:27 there's one consequence but the working
0:46:31 results are a little bit different but
0:46:32 this difference here is what has caused
0:46:36 controversy throughout hundreds of years
0:46:37 this is what I've just described to you
0:46:39 the difference
0:46:40 the question is okay whether or not it
0:46:42 should or shouldn't cause this much
0:46:43 controversy what is the truth of the
0:46:45 matter
0:46:46 because if we take a void position
0:46:48 seriously which is
0:46:51 I'll tell you the limitations on both
0:46:53 sides yeah
0:46:54 if we take the free position seriously
0:46:57 then I would say that if we don't know
0:46:59 what it means
0:47:00 than the early setup's position
0:47:01 according to the ashays is that the
0:47:04 salaf did not know what he means like
0:47:06 they didn't know when Allah is above the
0:47:08 throne
0:47:09 and if that's the case then the question
0:47:11 is why are they using different language
0:47:13 I'll see what I mean by that why are
0:47:15 they using words which are different to
0:47:16 the words of the Quran to describe
0:47:21 for example one phrase which you'll find
0:47:23 if you read
0:47:25 book that I just mentioned before or a
0:47:28 lot of the salaf is that Allah is
0:47:32 foreign
0:47:46 he is distinguished so he's
0:47:47 differentiated from his creation
0:47:50 now that puts into question the the
0:47:52 position because if what is being
0:47:55 suggested is that historically the early
0:47:57 salaf had tough weed as a position now
0:48:00 why are they using different language
0:48:01 why because if they're using different
0:48:02 language that would indicate they
0:48:04 understood the meanings and now they're
0:48:05 interpreting it in their own words
0:48:08 does that make sense this is very
0:48:10 important so it puts it it puts into
0:48:13 question the fact that what some ashadis
0:48:16 will say later that the position of the
0:48:19 salaf was a position of tough week
0:48:22 does that make sense
0:48:23 however having said that
0:48:25 some I'm not going to attribute the same
0:48:27 time yeah because I don't think he's
0:48:28 that unsophisticated but some later
0:48:31 salafis will say
0:48:32 that the position is is fully is BET
0:48:36 everything that you see of Allah
0:48:39 there is affirmation but we find that
0:48:43 some areas of Quran like for example
0:48:46 and we were talking about modular
0:48:50 College everything is destroyed except
0:48:52 for his face and they say no that means
0:48:54 him
0:48:55 that's a kind of it's a kind of
0:48:57 maneuvering here
0:48:59 which someone would be tempted to say is
0:49:01 this is the wheel
0:49:06 or Wednesday any way you turn in the
0:49:08 Quran it says you'll see the word to
0:49:11 Allah says this is the Qibla
0:49:14 so which Allah is not being interpreted
0:49:16 as well
0:49:21 so the issue of al-Qaeda
0:49:24 a principle which is consistent
0:49:26 throughout
0:49:28 I want to submit to you that if someone
0:49:30 if someone tries to have one principle
0:49:33 that you they will run across exam
0:49:36 counter examples is this not problems if
0:49:39 you say the position is tough week I'm
0:49:41 going to give you counter examples as
0:49:43 I've just done if you say their position
0:49:44 is it's bad I'm going to give you
0:49:46 counter examples the the correct
0:49:48 position is
0:49:50 it's full of the self
0:49:52 I mean this is what uh when Allah says
0:49:57 if they believe in what you guys believe
0:49:59 in to sahaba
0:50:01 so what do we because they the
0:50:03 companions of the Prophet they had the
0:50:05 clearest understanding of the text it
0:50:07 was the language that they lived with
0:50:09 like we speak in English now they spoke
0:50:11 lines Arabic like that and it wasn't an
0:50:13 Arabic Egyptian Arabic which is mixed
0:50:14 with the Coptic and this and that or the
0:50:16 Moroccan Arabic which mixed with four or
0:50:17 five European languages
0:50:19 it's it was a pure qurashi Arabic it was
0:50:22 what they grew up with
0:50:24 for me that is more this this is this is
0:50:27 the quranic language
0:50:28 so when IBN Abbas says something I
0:50:31 followed my best so long as the sahih
0:50:33 the the sahiha
0:50:35 so if you say what the Imran best says
0:50:37 this in this situation it goes against
0:50:38 such a principle I'm not here to defend
0:50:40 the principle I'm here to do I'm here to
0:50:41 follow the the words and the Seraph
0:50:45 I'm not yeah I mean my position is I
0:50:47 have to defend this principle to death
0:50:48 and I'll make all this that we let and
0:50:50 it's not whether it's we call it tafuido
0:50:52 you call it it's bad these names
0:50:55 are not names necessarily
0:50:58 which we need to defend like we defend
0:51:00 the positions
0:51:02 of the salaf
0:51:03 so for me Yani a very good person who's
0:51:07 very sober in this approaches I
0:51:09 mentioned to you
0:51:10 and if you look at somebody in key
0:51:11 verses quite frankly he leans towards or
0:51:14 you could say he takes quite I'll make
0:51:17 the argument he takes the humbly
0:51:18 position
0:51:19 he does take the humbly position but he
0:51:22 doesn't do it in a way which later
0:51:23 selfies of today
0:51:24 would do it so he does it in a very
0:51:27 sober way and like for example he wrote
0:51:29 A type called guitar
0:51:34 and in it he mentioned Allah has he has
0:51:38 the attribute of yet
0:51:41 he's he's not saying in the language in
0:51:44 Yani the crass language as a later
0:51:47 salafi would say
0:51:49 he's yes he's affirming yes but he's not
0:51:52 going into detail finger hand this and
0:51:53 putting all these things together
0:51:57 there is a continuity with
0:52:02 the anthropomorphic is something that
0:52:05 can be anthropomorphized from a humanly
0:52:07 perspective so it's as if the person is
0:52:09 thinking of a human body and putting it
0:52:11 together
0:52:12 so the person for example let yourself
0:52:14 will not be saying hand
0:52:18 finger he'll just put hand finger and
0:52:21 shins in that order so it's almost like
0:52:24 you're putting everything
0:52:26 there is a common
0:52:28 linguistic commonality with human body
0:52:32 parts why are you putting all of that
0:52:33 together in a second that's not what
0:52:35 we're finding
0:52:36 uh with the tablet it's much more fluid
0:52:38 it's like you look at one air and he's
0:52:40 yes he's affirming everything but he's
0:52:42 doing it in a way which he's cognizant
0:52:45 of the fact that someone can interpret
0:52:46 this in a humanistic way and he's he is
0:52:49 being mature with that
0:52:51 that's how it should be done
0:52:54 so
0:52:55 ber is a great person as well to look at
0:52:57 in terms of Self in terms of uh because
0:52:59 his works are compendious as well
0:53:01 in fact he has his own that's how that's
0:53:03 how strong he was you know how we have
0:53:05 some awesome and so on his own
0:53:09 foreign
0:53:16 and so on and he has some very
0:53:18 interesting opinions about women leading
0:53:19 the prayer and all those kind of things
0:53:21 be surprised anyway the point is
0:53:23 certainly
0:53:24 um
0:53:27 Yani
0:53:28 uh there's issues here in the
0:53:30 articulations
0:53:31 but could could one argue that the the
0:53:34 Creed of the the early people was pretty
0:53:37 much the same yes you could argue that
0:53:38 you could argue they pretty much had the
0:53:40 same idea
0:53:41 but the articulations of it were a
0:53:43 little bit different and then there was
0:53:44 development now
0:53:45 ashari who's an individual who lived in
0:53:48 a martesley household As We Know
0:53:52 who died
0:53:55 324 ah
0:53:56 so we're talking about so many
0:53:58 developments before even
0:54:01 was born
0:54:02 you know in the late third century
0:54:05 so many developments took place
0:54:07 so many discussions so many human beings
0:54:09 had lived and died
0:54:11 died in 241. you have Jad and uh even
0:54:15 Durham and would you call it an uh a
0:54:18 German safwan and all these guys came
0:54:20 way before the first century second
0:54:21 century first and second century
0:54:23 so you so at this point
0:54:26 there were
0:54:27 precursors and we're not saying that
0:54:30 there wasn't for example in collab
0:54:32 who died who was before
0:54:36 right he was there before and he was
0:54:38 making the same kind of arguments and
0:54:41 had the same kind of resistance
0:54:44 he wrote A Few books of them is one of
0:54:47 them which there's some kind of
0:54:48 contestation of authorship but he wrote
0:54:51 islamin which is a very interesting book
0:54:53 Luma he wrote as well and he wrote Al
0:54:56 Ivana now the one that's contestation of
0:54:58 authorship is Ibana
0:55:01 was basically him telling us what all
0:55:03 the different sects of Islam
0:55:06 you know and the Shia had done something
0:55:08 similar in fact this guy called
0:55:10 and so on so this was a heresy logical
0:55:14 Endeavor and this was being done by you
0:55:16 know the early people in Islam
0:55:20 I wrote
0:55:21 these books some discussion on because
0:55:25 there's some affirmation of attributes
0:55:26 and so on so some some people of later
0:55:28 time to say is not attributed to him
0:55:30 the the
0:55:32 countervailing or the counter argument
0:55:34 to that is that he had this he had a
0:55:36 student called the tabari not the uh
0:55:41 and history his Works have survived and
0:55:44 in fact he quotes alibana as we know
0:55:46 today in it which is a quite strong
0:55:48 evidence to show that alibana was
0:55:50 actually authored by Abu Hassan ashari
0:55:52 uh but anyway I mean it's neither here
0:55:55 nor there but it's interesting because
0:55:57 whether he died upon what did he die
0:55:59 upon as a question that you know so
0:56:00 people are asking and so on
0:56:03 but then
0:56:04 really you had a series of Scholars who
0:56:09 really laid the groundwork
0:56:12 for what we kind of see as a
0:56:14 methodological approach towards Islamic
0:56:17 Studies or Islamic critical studies
0:56:19 Systematic Theology whatever you want to
0:56:20 call it
0:56:23 yeah for example you had El Juani before
0:56:27 that you had Abu Bakr al-bakalani
0:56:29 foreign
0:56:33 they were pretty much the heavyweights
0:56:37 and then you had of course and then you
0:56:39 had
0:56:40 who uh mighty one of my teachers
0:56:43 actually his name's Amish Heather from
0:56:44 soas he considered arazi to be more
0:56:48 influential in them then
0:56:51 I think I mentioned to you before
0:56:57 and he wrote a book called tabakatul
0:57:00 ashaira
0:57:02 and he didn't put inside of el gazali
0:57:04 it's quite interesting is it Yani so
0:57:06 what's he trying to say and it was a big
0:57:07 name
0:57:11 you put it inside
0:57:13 but uh if you look at the kinds of books
0:57:16 like for example obviously we know it's
0:57:17 half of the philosopher we've maybe read
0:57:20 it we've seen it
0:57:22 uh
0:57:23 another one
0:57:25 which so a lot of issues to do with
0:57:27 philosophy and interestingly enough said
0:57:29 the following you said that I took two
0:57:31 years to study philosophy
0:57:33 now imagine now
0:57:35 it's impossible to become a master and
0:57:38 philosophy now in two years
0:57:40 but he said it took me two years to
0:57:43 study philosophy and like and all that
0:57:45 stuff and then he came out with whatever
0:57:46 he came out with
0:57:48 the interesting point about that is that
0:57:50 it shows you the Canon
0:57:52 that how limited they can't the
0:57:54 philosophical kind of was at his time
0:57:57 because you know you got the old gun on
0:57:59 and you've got the works with Aristotle
0:58:00 or whatever you've got then you have
0:58:02 what the philosophy for themselves
0:58:03 they've been seeing that and so on and
0:58:04 yeah then who do you have it's pretty
0:58:07 easy to exhaust all of that
0:58:09 and he exhausted it and he really
0:58:11 understood it it took him two years and
0:58:14 obviously he wrote to have the first
0:58:15 time which is the incoherence of the
0:58:16 philosopher of the philosophers which is
0:58:19 a stable work now
0:58:20 because he's he did a lot of things in
0:58:23 that book for example he had like
0:58:25 mathematical type arguments about
0:58:26 Infinity trying to prove the eternality
0:58:28 of the universe
0:58:31 he was using his uncle like he was
0:58:33 really going hard and heavy and if you
0:58:36 look at ebentamia's works like even here
0:58:42 he'll be it will tell me I will be
0:58:44 speaking and no no speech as the father
0:58:48 mentions
0:58:50 like you have an opponent in a sense but
0:58:54 the way he would be described by
0:58:55 bintamia is in a very endearing and
0:58:58 respectful way because his Mark that he
0:59:01 left was something which you cannot you
0:59:02 cannot disrespect as happy he called him
0:59:05 Islam he is the proof of Islam well what
0:59:08 kind I don't think he's used that term
0:59:10 with anyone else
0:59:11 he wrote a book as well I think is it's
0:59:14 not him that wrote the book over there
0:59:16 foreign
0:59:29 but look at what he was saying about uh
0:59:35 Islam the proof of this he called him
0:59:38 Islam in his
0:59:42 so
0:59:44 he was very special because he wrote
0:59:47 Mustafa
0:59:49 and obviously I forget the name of the
0:59:51 book now but Joannie wrote the the other
0:59:53 assoli book before it was called
0:59:55 um
1:00:01 so that was the first like major major
1:00:03 work but mostasso became like it
1:00:04 eclipsed everything else
1:00:06 and the stuff that and we went through a
1:00:08 lot a lot of it in a London series like
1:00:10 when we were talking about
1:00:11 consequentialism and stuff like that and
1:00:13 how he or this or that all these topics
1:00:16 he started up yeah very interestingly El
1:00:18 Mustafa was so popular
1:00:23 who also was athari and I think he's the
1:00:26 one who wrote the book called I'm I'm
1:00:28 not sure are you sure
1:00:33 it's very difficult to argue against
1:00:35 this point
1:00:36 yeah I mean he was humbling
1:00:38 and he wrote which is textbook yeah
1:00:42 it's one of the main humbly usually
1:00:44 textbook
1:00:46 but if you if we're honest about the
1:00:47 matter
1:00:49 who wrote the most famous
1:00:52 comparative textbook in Islam
1:00:56 You could argue morning
1:00:58 he
1:01:01 copied
1:01:04 and his role does another was basically
1:01:06 a his Road another an abbreviation
1:01:12 so much so that the early manuscripts
1:01:14 if you know that almost wrote
1:01:17 it has an epistemological beginning
1:01:20 all philosophy how how do you get a
1:01:23 knowledge you get Knowledge from this
1:01:24 the senses from the alcohol from this
1:01:26 like I said pathology that we went
1:01:28 through in Andrea that's in the
1:01:30 beginning of almost textbook
1:01:33 the early manuscripts and you can find
1:01:35 this online it's not open it's an Open
1:01:36 Secret any of them as another
1:01:39 it has an epistemological beginning as
1:01:41 well
1:01:42 so imagine you have ibno Kodama big time
1:01:45 the heaviest hitter in terms of the
1:01:47 Hamilton
1:01:48 of the motors he is so impressed with
1:01:52 that he writes a book which is basically
1:01:55 an abbreviation or summary of some sort
1:01:58 of
1:02:03 because and and by the way and we have
1:02:06 to be honest democrates who
1:02:08 it's not just in Academia that was a
1:02:10 scholar the map of disease in general
1:02:12 they were very um
1:02:14 suspicious of that kind of thing
1:02:16 they had a more conservative View and so
1:02:18 when when and why why would you find for
1:02:20 example another now when you look at it
1:02:22 you don't have that epistemological
1:02:23 beginning because a lot of them were
1:02:25 suspicious of it so get out of here so
1:02:27 they cut it out
1:02:28 so you won't find you know if you if you
1:02:30 get road to Northern now you the the
1:02:32 copies that you get from whatever you
1:02:34 get it from you're not going to get that
1:02:36 philosophical beginning especially not
1:02:38 if it's printed from certain bookshops
1:02:40 and certain countries in certain places
1:02:42 and census you're not going to get that
1:02:44 but that
1:02:49 deleting his works
1:02:52 because you're the scatter philosophy
1:02:58 but think about it the
1:03:00 most impressive and probably all of
1:03:03 Islamic history
1:03:05 who did we say who said that was the
1:03:07 three books and that we said that right
1:03:14 so yeah
1:03:16 because Tam heed is actually a book of
1:03:18 bakalani wrote a book called tamheed as
1:03:20 well
1:03:21 and that's very it's amazing yeah so the
1:03:24 usheri school of thought has brought
1:03:25 about without a shot of a doubt like
1:03:28 some of the most intellectual and genius
1:03:30 genius in Islamic history
1:03:33 Yani we have ibutamia
1:03:36 in Nursery School Hamburg School let's
1:03:38 say yeah
1:03:39 but the school have so many even 10
1:03:41 years
1:03:43 and that's sad to say
1:03:45 but but like they have some like people
1:03:48 that really are on his level like you
1:03:50 could not argue that he's he's not on
1:03:52 his level he cannot argue others he's
1:03:53 not on his level you cannot argue that
1:03:56 um what do you call him
1:03:58 you cannot argue join is on his level
1:04:01 you cannot
1:04:02 you know you cannot so there's a lot of
1:04:04 them there's a lot of these heavyweights
1:04:06 but quite frankly they agree with each
1:04:08 other on almost everything except for
1:04:09 arazi
1:04:13 of all of the four names I've just
1:04:15 mentioned which are probably the four
1:04:16 biggest
1:04:21 these are the four biggest in my opinion
1:04:24 yeah there's others and we're not saying
1:04:25 there's nothing of course in our office
1:04:27 here like an Amity he's huge now people
1:04:29 are looking at his stuff and uh would
1:04:31 you call him and Tamia engages with his
1:04:33 arguments a lot
1:04:35 um and so on but these four people
1:04:38 yeah
1:04:39 who are
1:04:43 you any
1:04:50 they're all
1:04:52 uh
1:04:54 they all have very similarities except
1:04:56 for atlasi
1:04:58 arazi is willing to step outside the
1:05:00 school
1:05:01 and we kind of looked in into that how
1:05:03 he does that for example he writes a
1:05:05 book called uh
1:05:07 the end of
1:05:09 the upper limits of basically
1:05:12 generous idea of aqual versus Knuckle
1:05:14 like what comes before you know the
1:05:16 arkle over the knuckle and so on
1:05:18 it comes really
1:05:20 this this comes from madrasi
1:05:25 yes yeah
1:05:26 but I think he mentions it in other
1:05:28 places as well like for example there's
1:05:30 another uh I think he mentions this it
1:05:34 comes it comes up and more than one work
1:05:37 but even Tamia is attacking if you
1:05:40 without a razi you probably don't have
1:05:43 him here doing what he's doing
1:05:47 without without Conor McGregor
1:05:50 ithm been on to it wouldn't be a
1:05:52 household name in Muslim sometimes you
1:05:54 just need that and it's Once Upon a lot
1:05:56 one of the things in Islamic history and
1:05:59 in all of history you just need some
1:06:01 people need to sharpen each other up
1:06:02 there needs to be some without Tommy
1:06:04 Robinson maybe you know Lauren Southern
1:06:06 David wood though
1:06:09 maybe we wouldn't have we wouldn't be
1:06:10 here right now no but I'm saying that
1:06:12 because I'm not suffered I'm not saying
1:06:13 that is like David
1:06:16 no but I'm just saying you need this
1:06:18 antagonism don't let them know
1:06:21 the prophet says don't wish for the
1:06:25 coming of the enemy but at the same time
1:06:29 if you do meet him then you know
1:06:31 yeah
1:06:32 so in a sense you always this didactic
1:06:36 representation this dualism this story
1:06:37 this storyline is like why do people why
1:06:40 do you think people would actually read
1:06:41 that
1:06:42 where is writing four pages and pages
1:06:45 and pages and Pages against lazy you
1:06:47 it's like watching a YouTube video why
1:06:48 are you watching these refutational
1:06:50 YouTube it's the same thing going on but
1:06:51 on a much higher level with way more
1:06:52 respect
1:06:56 but no but if you want me to show you
1:06:58 some some things in Asha is cool and in
1:07:01 the humble school where they accuse each
1:07:02 other homosexuality and they start being
1:07:03 disrespectful I can show you that one as
1:07:05 well that's for a different video the
1:07:06 scholars
1:07:07 so this guy we think is he's you know
1:07:09 homosexual
1:07:11 no no it happens it's a human proclivity
1:07:15 but that's that's a different video for
1:07:17 a different day and this one this one
1:07:18 that was a womanizer and this one's
1:07:21 this stuff has always been there we
1:07:23 think nowadays we do complain about oh
1:07:25 as we do two video refutations now what
1:07:27 the refutation is going on for years
1:07:28 in fact overall reservation these great
1:07:30 Scholars probably wouldn't even be known
1:07:31 to us
1:07:33 that's a bad that's how bad it is Yanni
1:07:35 well I
1:07:37 so two things we can pick up from this
1:07:39 is that you know great Scholars produce
1:07:41 great Scholars and and and when when
1:07:44 people come together Socrates
1:07:46 Socrates and Plato came out right after
1:07:48 him
1:07:49 he took from his Works he added on he
1:07:51 pushed us and then Aristotle uh yeah
1:07:54 Aristotle who he took from Plato
1:07:57 there's always that line of okay this
1:07:59 person's this intelligent person is
1:08:01 interacting with this other intelligent
1:08:03 person is creating this intelligent
1:08:04 atmosphere and they're all this all
1:08:06 these intelligent people are together
1:08:08 so two things which are good having
1:08:09 clever friends
1:08:12 clever friends and teachers yeah and uh
1:08:15 and clever and strong enemies
1:08:18 or strong let's just say strong
1:08:20 opponents without without I'll be honest
1:08:23 with you one one of this is aside the
1:08:25 point you know who he is but one of the
1:08:26 ex-muslims uh you know anti-muslims and
1:08:28 stuff like that
1:08:29 I a private message to him I never show
1:08:31 my private messages
1:08:33 and I said to him listen I you know
1:08:37 I said
1:08:39 I said why don't you go and do some
1:08:40 Arabic studies and Islamic Studies and
1:08:42 he said what are you talking about it's
1:08:43 like what do you mean by that
1:08:45 I said back in the days the orientalists
1:08:47 100 years ago they were very formidable
1:08:50 they knew the Arabic they were they knew
1:08:52 Arabic poetry you have we have books
1:08:54 here more into this that they would look
1:08:55 into history
1:08:56 I would be quivering and shaking and
1:08:59 fear and fear and trepidation if I had
1:09:01 to present against someone who was my
1:09:03 Superior knowledge like that
1:09:05 I would but that but that would increase
1:09:07 me that would strengthen me that would
1:09:08 sharpen me that would make me something
1:09:10 into something different
1:09:11 but you have ruined me
1:09:13 because because you have you're honestly
1:09:18 because you are such an easy opponent an
1:09:20 unformidable opponent unworthy opponent
1:09:22 that
1:09:25 that
1:09:27 you have not challenged me to to go to
1:09:30 the next level
1:09:33 this is not fair we and the enemies of
1:09:36 Islam
1:09:38 he says that you know when you have like
1:09:40 the devil or something a formidable
1:09:41 opponent let me fight something good man
1:09:45 Tyson Fury can never really be one of
1:09:47 the greats not because he doesn't have
1:09:48 the skill but he doesn't have the
1:09:49 opponents
1:09:50 and maybe he doesn't have the skill
1:09:51 either but he will never be compared to
1:09:53 Muhammad Ali
1:09:54 oh Mike Tyson it's never gonna happen
1:09:57 because if why is Mike Tyson in the
1:09:59 conversation the best of all time
1:10:00 because he's beating so many good
1:10:01 opponents
1:10:02 top guys
1:10:04 we need opponents
1:10:07 but we need to yeah that's why I'm
1:10:08 saying so don't be yeah and two things
1:10:11 and from this from this story that we're
1:10:12 looking at that we can look at is
1:10:15 just guys that can help us to get to the
1:10:17 next level
1:10:17 share ideas sharpen the sword
1:10:20 metaphorically obviously just in case
1:10:23 and also and opponents who can also
1:10:25 challenge us bring us to the next level
1:10:26 because that's as human beings like
1:10:28 Michael Jordan
1:10:30 what
1:10:33 there's a famous Clips where he was
1:10:35 saying like uh and that's when I took it
1:10:36 personally and then that's why I said I
1:10:38 took a person listen like man is almost
1:10:40 driven completely by his insecurity when
1:10:42 we start taking things personally oh
1:10:44 that's I'm ignorant this and that oh my
1:10:46 repetition's on the line then you go to
1:10:48 the next level
1:10:49 there's no it's no coincidence that
1:10:51 these ashady Scholars were as sharp and
1:10:54 strong and genius as they were because
1:10:56 they were facing the matazida they were
1:10:57 facing the likes of Abdullah
1:11:03 different level
1:11:08 they'll come in with the Greek
1:11:10 manuscripts and this and that and they
1:11:12 had all workings out
1:11:14 actually I had to spend day and night
1:11:17 with Candlelight and ink
1:11:20 that's what you have to think about let
1:11:22 me let me start systemizing my thought
1:11:23 let me start let me go to the cleverest
1:11:25 person here let me build institution in
1:11:27 the Army Institute that they had let's
1:11:29 do this let's do that that's why there's
1:11:30 so many intelligent people from that
1:11:32 school of thought
1:11:34 so so these are the four biggest names
1:11:36 that you should know but there are other
1:11:37 names like like we say we're not
1:11:39 we're not discounting that
1:11:42 um any questions so far
1:11:51 and you know interestingly they all
1:11:53 wrote about like that they all like and
1:11:56 uh
1:11:57 and the Russian stuff they all actually
1:11:59 published works on logic
1:12:01 Ally wrote a book another very small
1:12:03 book you can use read it in one day
1:12:05 it's a logic yeah he wrote two or three
1:12:08 books on logic just purely on logic he
1:12:10 wrote a book called where he was trying
1:12:12 to get syllogisms
1:12:16 uh and razi also wrote a book called
1:12:19 It's also book on logic it was it was
1:12:22 tradition
1:12:23 it was and in fact someone who doesn't
1:12:25 study logic I don't trust him you cannot
1:12:28 be a jurist in Islam I don't try he's
1:12:29 not he's not all that again he might be
1:12:31 making a mistake we don't know if you're
1:12:33 gonna make a mistake or not
1:12:34 so they had this big focus on
1:12:37 montec and that's why they can come up
1:12:40 with the the arguments that they came
1:12:41 out with and obviously was very
1:12:43 interesting because he brought us a Sufi
1:12:45 element to solve test care element
1:12:47 you know and what because this happens
1:12:50 to a lot of a lot of people haven't met
1:12:52 when you're into like deep analytics
1:12:54 thought all the time and so you get
1:12:56 bored of it it's boring and just burns
1:12:58 your mind and Fries it up
1:12:59 so you think to yourself let me just do
1:13:01 something more raw honey now let me do
1:13:02 let me do something interesting and I
1:13:04 think he went through like some crisis
1:13:05 obviously he didn't he went through like
1:13:08 a proper spiritual experiential process
1:13:10 which is quite similar to you know
1:13:13 descar I think therefore I am I believe
1:13:16 he copied it for me somehow because this
1:13:18 whole systematic doubt thing that's
1:13:20 exactly what was Ali did he had the
1:13:22 systematic doubt thing and he went
1:13:23 through a crisis of faith and this and
1:13:24 that and he went to oh okay what can we
1:13:26 say for sure basically
1:13:28 uh but that's why you'll see like some
1:13:31 of the books of ghazali like
1:13:33 especially yeah especially you know
1:13:35 about test care and the purification of
1:13:37 the soul and stuff like that he's got a
1:13:39 whole book of
1:13:41 and about love and um
1:13:44 about self-accountability and these
1:13:46 things and that's like the the Deep
1:13:48 purification spiritual tradition
1:13:51 and the one that I recommended to you
1:13:52 guys a long time ago which was uh
1:13:57 very easy book to read and it's been
1:13:59 translated into English it's called the
1:14:01 beginning of guidance
1:14:02 you've read that alien actually I'll
1:14:04 give you on a copy I think you heard a
1:14:06 long time ago
1:14:07 with the beginning of guidance
1:14:12 as well so it's it was a very uh the way
1:14:16 he starts the book if you're doing this
1:14:18 for if you're doing this if you're doing
1:14:20 it for people's recognition or for
1:14:22 competition or for whatever then you
1:14:24 know that you're bankrupt basically ill
1:14:27 you're you're profitless your your
1:14:28 business is not making any profits he
1:14:32 didn't mean six figures and business
1:14:33 actual business no he meant your
1:14:35 spiritual business
1:14:45 so
1:14:49 we talked about lamady in 1931
1:14:52 and then you have obviously a sanusi you
1:14:55 know San Jose you know and so on this if
1:14:58 if someone's doing nizami schools or
1:15:00 whatever they'll go through San Jose's
1:15:02 kitab
1:15:03 and albutos I'm it's underwhelming in
1:15:06 terms of original thought it's not meant
1:15:08 to be like our original thought or
1:15:10 something like that it's not like hazeli
1:15:12 if you go from Lucy you think what's
1:15:13 going on that's nothing you went down
1:15:15 you've downgraded basically but it's
1:15:18 it's just like a
1:15:20 it is just a way to understand uh
1:15:27 yeah
1:15:28 they've got a book
1:15:30 the Cobra one if you read the book
1:15:33 it's fine and it tells you like this
1:15:35 house
1:15:38 and it says
1:15:41 you know these kind of things
1:15:43 and and then Arguments for God because
1:15:45 they have all that in there and actually
1:15:46 books you'll find almost in every
1:15:47 creedal book Arguments for God's
1:15:49 existence from imcan from Hadoop from
1:15:51 this interesting game
1:15:56 and as we know there's been lots of
1:15:58 famous controversies versus this was the
1:16:01 big one by the way it was the matter the
1:16:03 main event of the evening was the matazi
1:16:06 versus
1:16:08 and then and then that changed you could
1:16:10 say slightly at the time of
1:16:11 entertainment
1:16:13 that he took the but the thing is arazi
1:16:15 was already dead before Evan Tamia
1:16:18 started refuting him and so he even
1:16:20 Tamia was around the same time as super
1:16:22 kid and so on and that was the issue
1:16:24 which is we're not going to get into
1:16:25 that now but uh the issue of this him
1:16:28 and his son basically the refuting on
1:16:30 the issue of and so like that but um
1:16:35 ashari versus philosophers so obviously
1:16:37 like uh famously of women Cena and for
1:16:41 four reasons he gave four reasons at the
1:16:42 end of the book
1:16:43 for that he doesn't know the Jews yet
1:16:46 that even said that Allah is not under
1:16:48 particulars and they haven't seen that
1:16:50 said that you know that the human bodies
1:16:52 are not going to be resurrected with
1:16:54 their actual body but only with their
1:16:56 soul
1:16:57 and there was one other thing which I
1:16:59 which I forget was there's four reasons
1:17:00 he gave and then obviously which
1:17:03 continues which is the main one today I
1:17:04 would say you don't have mountains it is
1:17:06 now I mean doing anything
1:17:09 yeah I mean
1:17:17 the question is basically um you know
1:17:19 the idea that the earlier is that they
1:17:21 were quite different to the data
1:17:23 development of the actually electoral
1:17:25 extent is that true and um like you know
1:17:28 what which Scholars were like
1:17:29 responsible for this like development of
1:17:31 the uh Ashley Creed
1:17:33 yeah so for example I'll give you some I
1:17:36 think examples we've used already but
1:17:38 I'll mention them again so for example
1:17:39 arrazzi
1:17:43 is you would say you know an ashari that
1:17:46 existed in the you know in the Middle
1:17:48 Ages if you want to call it that
1:17:49 whatever but he's refuted by simulating
1:17:51 some issues a San Lucy came afterwards
1:17:53 and obviously as we just mentioned he's
1:17:54 talks about or he his books are
1:17:56 mentioned
1:17:58 uh or a staple part of asha's reading
1:18:00 right reading list
1:18:02 so issue of Qatar for example
1:18:04 like the issue of Qatar the issue of uh
1:18:07 he considers it to be
1:18:09 foreign
1:18:18 that the incent human being is
1:18:20 determined
1:18:21 but it only looks to be it only looks to
1:18:25 be like his free will he does not have
1:18:27 people basically
1:18:28 that's the largest position it's a
1:18:29 Christian feminist so this is something
1:18:31 which snoc Rejects
1:18:35 uh issues relating to for example so
1:18:38 this is a Qatar
1:18:39 You could argue as well I'll give you
1:18:41 another example like a Waka bakalani
1:18:43 who's one of the early ashadis there's
1:18:45 new manuscripts that have come to show
1:18:47 that he actually affirmed Allah
1:18:52 and lay Asha is like the one of those
1:18:54 polemical ones of recent times what a
1:18:56 guy called Zed khalsari I'm not sure if
1:18:58 you've
1:19:00 yeah yeah at that time around you know
1:19:02 late 1800s early 1900s
1:19:05 who the one who famously said about
1:19:07 ibrahima's book was part of the salaf
1:19:09 because
1:19:14 that's how that's how hard he was like
1:19:15 even the salaf like he was he called it
1:19:19 anyway
1:19:20 uh uh
1:19:22 uh the one who actually refuted uh a
1:19:26 kothari was a my limit who as remember
1:19:29 he believes he was probably the most
1:19:31 intellectual country of the
1:19:32 entertainment in terms of certain in
1:19:33 certain issues industry School
1:19:36 so going back to the point uh what you
1:19:38 were just saying so
1:19:39 the issue of Allah being above the
1:19:41 throne it would seem to be in the early
1:19:43 School you could make the argument and
1:19:44 has been made the argument like that for
1:19:46 example
1:19:46 he believed Allah was above the throne
1:19:48 and that new manuscripts of his book has
1:19:52 have shown that as that kosari when he
1:19:54 was making the arguments didn't know
1:19:56 that because the manuscript hadn't been
1:19:57 extended as time well that means
1:19:59 cataloged or whatever
1:20:01 but now we have those Macs so so you
1:20:04 could see you could see a steady uh
1:20:06 differentiation or changing or something
1:20:08 like that
1:20:09 after because and that's why I've been
1:20:11 telling me actually I remember reading
1:20:14 he really Praises this is the closest
1:20:17 one to us and these kinds of things
1:20:20 uh so yeah you can see a steady
1:20:22 development from
1:20:24 and then El Juani starts to really
1:20:27 expand it a lot
1:20:29 so you can say if this is
1:20:32 it's probably going to be a Juani and
1:20:35 then obviously after that and razi just
1:20:38 put the cat in with the pigeons
1:20:40 he put the cat in with the pigeons so uh
1:20:44 that's what you would say and then
1:20:45 obviously like a solution these later
1:20:48 it's by Julian whatever they took the
1:20:50 select positions of those in the in the
1:20:52 past and I mean they they filtered it
1:20:54 out but if you mean today they're
1:20:56 probably just following the opinions of
1:20:57 the layoutis
1:20:59 that's what's happening especially for
1:21:01 this particular school of thought
1:21:02 whatever they're just following those
1:21:04 opinions there's no nothing wrong with
1:21:05 Yani but you have to admit
1:21:08 you have to admit that's what you're
1:21:09 doing here
1:21:10 a lot of the problems today is that
1:21:11 people don't know where they're getting
1:21:13 their opinions from why they're so
1:21:14 staunch on their opinions once you have
1:21:16 a Genesis of ideas okay this is where my
1:21:18 opinion comes from yeah it comes from
1:21:20 these people human beings colors then
1:21:22 you can start to really engage with them
1:21:25 fairly those ideas
1:21:28 time
1:21:32 yeah yeah so most of the kind of uh
1:21:35 archeries today will basically just
1:21:37 follow most of like uh
1:21:38 basically stuff that comes from
1:21:44 yeah or yeah not arazzi as much
1:21:48 yes and obviously uh certainly um
1:21:52 those latest Scholars that wrote those
1:21:54 books like
1:21:58 yeah
1:21:59 so that's basically uh it guys we can
1:22:04 quickly talk about the Metro leader
1:22:05 school I said I said I would talk about
1:22:07 them I'll quickly talk about that yep
1:22:10 he died 333 ah
1:22:14 and he wrote a book called Hit
1:22:16 and um
1:22:18 obviously you have also within the
1:22:20 within the school you have a necessary
1:22:22 as well and this is the of the the NASA
1:22:24 fee Creed is something which is taught
1:22:25 to mentally these students
1:22:27 it's it's one of the the primary
1:22:30 uh
1:22:32 what do you call it Creeds and the the
1:22:34 books that he wrote is or the book
1:22:36 that's attributed to him is called
1:22:39 foreign
1:22:42 so another person who's worth looking at
1:22:45 in terms of giants of the metal school
1:22:48 and I wasn't sure whether he's murdered
1:22:50 or ashari is as we said before Saturday
1:22:53 dinner it was much later than obviously
1:22:55 those other two two seven ninety seven
1:22:57 ninety two
1:22:59 and he's on a childhood
1:23:02 so that's another interesting uh one
1:23:04 another another book I was actually
1:23:05 reading when I was doing my work like
1:23:09 some some bath especially for Qatar and
1:23:11 stuff was this individual called he was
1:23:14 also matsuridi very interesting figure
1:23:15 and he uh
1:23:18 uh he's got some very interesting um in
1:23:21 fact he I was I was reading a segment of
1:23:23 his work which he was talking about the
1:23:25 differences between asharis
1:23:27 and asaris when it comes to something
1:23:29 called uh
1:23:33 or whoever causes have effects
1:23:36 have actual effects
1:23:38 and I was surprised to find that Ibraham
1:23:40 actually took a view that's more in line
1:23:42 with mintemia
1:23:44 School
1:23:46 so that sometimes you'll find this kind
1:23:48 of unusual collaboration or it's unusual
1:23:52 things and you'll see for example that
1:23:55 there are differences between the usheri
1:23:56 school and the Metro School for example
1:23:58 one of those effects which are not
1:24:00 affirmed by an asharis and which are
1:24:02 affirmed by the methodology this is
1:24:06 very interesting many people don't know
1:24:09 that and there have been books that have
1:24:10 been written about the difference
1:24:11 between asharis and matolidis some of
1:24:13 them labeled them as like 20 differences
1:24:15 30 differences but yeah most of them
1:24:17 would consider themselves from the same
1:24:18 clothian
1:24:20 but it's interesting to know that
1:24:26 um yeah and by and to be clear I'm by
1:24:30 far not really
1:24:32 uh stuff what explains the marriage
1:24:36 between the asharis and the materials
1:24:38 just a similarity in Creed because they
1:24:41 have the same like the Fatal Mana where
1:24:42 most of them are the same uh I mean
1:24:46 think of it first of all about
1:24:50 they live in the same generation okay
1:24:52 they lived 10 years they died 10 years
1:24:54 apart from nine years one of them died
1:24:56 nine years together right
1:24:58 um and so there was a proliferation of
1:25:01 ideas and it became the acceptable norm
1:25:03 and don't forget there's a political
1:25:04 impetus here as well because when Ashley
1:25:06 became a state religion it became the
1:25:08 state religion
1:25:10 why is martialism let's just be honest
1:25:12 why is martialism not on the radar like
1:25:16 it's a lot of it's just political
1:25:20 and you can you can make the same
1:25:21 argument say well you're Saudi Arabia
1:25:22 yes the same argument no problem
1:25:24 a lot of these issues have got to do
1:25:26 with politics
1:25:30 as historians or as sociological
1:25:33 anthropologists have to say
1:25:35 it's not like the mortalities have very
1:25:37 weak arguments everywhere some of the
1:25:38 arguments were very strong and robust
1:25:40 it's not the only some people who don't
1:25:41 exist now
1:25:42 and don't occupy a space in the social
1:25:45 atmosphere it's not as if now they're
1:25:49 confined to the academic circles
1:25:50 whatever it's not like they don't have
1:25:52 any contributions and it's not like
1:25:53 they're having big Scholars
1:25:55 they had their big swallows as well but
1:25:57 they were just you know they were
1:25:58 overruled Danny if you like politics I
1:26:01 think politics has a big part to play
1:26:02 here
1:26:03 I do think I do think so
1:26:05 uh but yeah so this this was this was
1:26:09 the political ideas these were the ideas
1:26:10 that were
1:26:12 in the atmosphere at that time at that
1:26:14 particular time and they were similar
1:26:16 ideas so they they they married up a lot
1:26:19 in that sense but there are some
1:26:20 differences now we're seeing them in the
1:26:22 did I say that the upanish were maturity
1:26:24 before so that was really right maturity
1:26:28 so you know you're seeing with the
1:26:30 abundis and then the brother
1:26:33 I saw particular uh debate between two
1:26:36 individuals they were talking about the
1:26:38 shootout of debates for one hour
1:26:41 and my mom was over listening and she
1:26:42 said what's going on here she said she
1:26:45 said when they're gonna get started with
1:26:46 the debate I was I was listening to it
1:26:48 was actually quite means it was
1:26:50 entertaining animals but I was I was
1:26:52 waiting for the debate to start because
1:26:53 I wanted to know like I wanted to have
1:26:54 more familiarity with the differences
1:26:55 between Australia's yeah
1:26:58 Unfortunately they never got to that the
1:27:01 accusations and adorable but I won't
1:27:04 complain about that because I'm the
1:27:05 master of Adams
1:27:08 um any questions before we continue
1:27:13 okay well hopefully that wasn't of
1:27:16 information overload
1:27:18 if it was then uh sorry about that but
1:27:21 if even if it even if it wasn't you can
1:27:23 rewind and listen and take notes and you
1:27:27 know even if they are copious notes you
1:27:29 got a question yeah yeah
1:27:32 what do you want to comment on them I
1:27:34 guess now that we know that this is
1:27:35 because obviously they've done a couple
1:27:37 of things firstly you've restricted uh
1:27:39 the discussion about
1:27:40 I guess the schools of Sunny thought to
1:27:43 basically make these three
1:27:47 as well because they were quite
1:27:49 prominent yeah so what ought to be the
1:27:52 attitude in relation to dealing with the
1:27:54 differences between these schools audits
1:27:55 to be as tolerant as the differences of
1:27:57 opinion for example is there more I mean
1:28:00 to be honest with you like people that
1:28:01 consider themselves salafi yeah you'll
1:28:04 find people that can call themselves
1:28:06 seller fees
1:28:08 like for example some selfie jihadis
1:28:10 there's no way you can deal with them
1:28:12 unless it's going to be with on the
1:28:13 battlefield or something like that okay
1:28:14 I mean what are you gonna do if you meet
1:28:17 uh somebody who believes in neighbor as
1:28:18 fatwas but at the same time believes in
1:28:20 taking your life
1:28:22 so it is like it really is contextual
1:28:25 like it does require or there's no we
1:28:29 don't believe in solofide a lot of
1:28:31 people nowadays
1:28:33 solo feeder is a Christian concept that
1:28:35 you're saved by faith alone
1:28:37 a lot of people nowadays they are they
1:28:40 believe that they're part of the safe
1:28:41 sect and as a result they will not
1:28:43 practice spirituality they will not
1:28:45 practice self-accountability
1:28:46 self-responsibility they will they will
1:28:48 lose their spiritual side they have this
1:28:50 card now which is the safe sex syndrome
1:28:51 and they will spray everybody with it
1:28:53 that's the case
1:28:55 uh the Islamic attitude is actually one
1:28:58 of us
1:29:01 hold yourselves to account before your
1:29:03 health to account forget about everybody
1:29:05 else and where he's going to heaven or
1:29:07 hell
1:29:09 all of them on the Hellfire
1:29:12 except for one you're going to the
1:29:13 hellfires No No this attitude is not
1:29:16 there's many things in Sharia which
1:29:18 Allah and the prophet saws they threaten
1:29:21 with the Hellfire
1:29:22 but it's not that if everyone does those
1:29:24 things that they're going to the hell
1:29:25 because Allah can forgive yeah
1:29:32 all my slaves
1:29:35 Allah forgives all the sins
1:29:37 so it's completely conceivable to
1:29:39 anybody with any particular
1:29:43 if they believe in that basic skeleton
1:29:46 that they will go to heaven I believe
1:29:48 that's what I've been telling me I
1:29:49 mentioned very very clearly what is what
1:29:52 is known to the Muslim people
1:29:54 that they would have to have real
1:29:55 disqualifiers do Japanese uh really go
1:29:59 Annie you can't just kick someone out of
1:30:01 the mercy of God like that I personally
1:30:03 don't believe so so
1:30:04 yeah we we should be tolerant unless
1:30:06 someone is being intolerable it's just
1:30:08 because someone calls himself
1:30:11 it can be the most the worst one to you
1:30:14 can can stop you you can can take your
1:30:17 wealth away again
1:30:20 so it depends on the person and the
1:30:22 people in the group or the country or
1:30:23 whatever you have to look at it if the
1:30:24 person is worth collaborating with or
1:30:26 not and if the objectives are bigger
1:30:28 than the shackle that come about from
1:30:31 that's that's a pragmatic approach here
1:30:35 Allah come together and build goodness
1:30:38 and taqwa
1:30:39 he doesn't say
1:30:45 if you ask anybody to get me a more
1:30:47 Hostess for this particular verse get me
1:30:49 a specified someone says oh you cannot
1:30:50 collaborate with somebody who's from a
1:30:52 different sect or even a collaborate
1:30:54 with a Shiite yes I'll collaborate even
1:30:56 with a Christian anybody someone who
1:30:58 wants to do good
1:31:00 obviously within context and reason I'm
1:31:01 not gonna let Christian lead my prayer
1:31:03 or cut my me in fact that one there's a
1:31:06 difference of opinion
1:31:09 but you know I mean within within reason
1:31:11 and and judgment yeah every situation
1:31:13 has this thing but what I'm saying is
1:31:17 yeah I need to come together
1:31:19 that's what Allah says in the Quran come
1:31:21 together in goodness and taqwa
1:31:24 in God Consciousness he doesn't say
1:31:26 except for those people or those people
1:31:27 of that people Islam is an open and
1:31:29 Universal religion for everyone
1:31:31 no matter what your age race or sex
1:31:33 sexual uh orientation and that's the
1:31:35 truth
1:31:37 and we can actually say this we can say
1:31:38 that no matter what your age race or
1:31:40 sexual uh
1:31:42 orientation Islam is for you
1:31:45 whatever you prefer whatever it's
1:31:46 Different Strokes for different folk
1:31:48 this person that person you can come
1:31:49 into Islam you can redeem yourself you
1:31:51 can cleanse your sins you can do what
1:31:53 you want and within Islam those who want
1:31:55 to collaborate no I am that's fine
1:31:58 if it's going to confuse the matter if
1:32:00 you collaborate like we're doing this
1:32:01 guys we ever have a debate or yanny you
1:32:04 have to with everything is within reason
1:32:05 and within context but for me I
1:32:08 personally obviously believe in this I
1:32:09 believe in that there's no specified
1:32:11 that advice therefore I take it Allah
1:32:13 I take it completely absolute
1:32:16 any other questions
1:32:22 and by the way sorry on this point
1:32:23 someone will come with a letter and this
1:32:26 one then this one left across the road
1:32:29 then this and that so if tell me if if
1:32:31 even butter or Bahari crossed the road
1:32:33 from muktada in the fourth Century does
1:32:36 that mean that I now have to taxis of
1:32:37 the verse of town
1:32:39 based on he crossed the road
1:32:42 because of his context and his times
1:32:44 which is not mine not as different
1:32:46 context in different times
1:32:51 I might even go invite him to my house
1:32:53 just like him did when he invited bakri
1:32:55 to his house he says
1:33:01 Allah has destroyed the one who has uh
1:33:03 and they say is different opinions
1:33:06 actually so there's no muhasas going on
1:33:09 here so they get you some tenuous verses
1:33:12 and Hadith and they say this shows you
1:33:14 that you cannot no no sorry this no I'm
1:33:16 not convinced
1:33:18 I'm not convinced at all it's very very
1:33:20 unconvincing
1:33:22 about uh
1:33:25 exactly they bring the area is there
1:33:28 some atoms foreign
1:33:52 foreign
1:33:59 so it says until they sit with
1:34:02 until they speak about another thing
1:34:06 until until they speak about another
1:34:07 thing so when they speak about nothing
1:34:08 if it is
1:34:10 don't speak about don't don't speak
1:34:12 about the issues which you disagree when
1:34:13 you speak about food and football and so
1:34:15 I can sit with you then no problem
1:34:18 it's not there's no and there's not
1:34:19 Ishmael
1:34:21 in fact somebody mentions two uh two or
1:34:24 three different opinions on it so if you
1:34:25 get that area or you get the Hadith
1:34:28 um
1:34:31 you don't give me anything here to do
1:34:33 taxis
1:34:35 which which is that's it it's finished
1:34:37 in my opinion it's done bring bring me
1:34:40 something I I want to believe you I
1:34:41 can't say no but this this particular
1:34:43 salaf in the third Century he crossed
1:34:46 the road when he saw mutada
1:34:48 well he put his hands in his ears
1:34:54 so this is going to Texas
1:34:58 because he's under
1:35:01 I don't know what osul book is that
1:35:03 I don't know who
1:35:05 he said oh he saw that so he he put his
1:35:08 hands in his ears so therefore you
1:35:10 should do the same thing you should not
1:35:11 speak to your mom and your dad and your
1:35:13 brother and your sister and your friends
1:35:14 and your cousin that you've been
1:35:15 boycotting for six years
1:35:19 because somebody did this
1:35:22 yeah on that bombshell guys