Joe Rogan called Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Podcast (2021-03-05) ​

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0:00:13 assalamualaikum warahmatullahi
0:00:16 i recently watched a podcast between joe
0:00:19 rogan and iron hersey ali
0:00:21 she recently also had a podcast with
0:00:23 jordan peterson which i responded to
0:00:26 in a decisive refutation a cut-throat
0:00:28 refutation
0:00:29 that you can see in the description box
0:00:33 now i don't want to speak in a
0:00:35 sesquipedaly and liquacious way
0:00:37 i want to be straight to the point and
0:00:39 say what i thought was fundamentally
0:00:41 flawed with this particular
0:00:43 podcast that took place between hersey
0:00:46 ali
0:00:46 and joel rogan now they spoke about many
0:00:50 things and i could spend
0:00:51 a good 15 20 or 30 minutes telling you
0:00:54 on
0:00:54 each occasion where she went wrong and
0:00:56 spoke untruths
0:00:58 but i'm just going to focus on one thing
0:01:00 which is so egregiously a historical
0:01:02 that it requires a refutation with
0:01:06 the source sources and evidences sexual
0:01:08 evidences to prove my point
0:01:11 the main argument that she was making
0:01:12 was when the prophet became a prophet in
0:01:14 her eyes
0:01:16 claimed that he was a prophet there were
0:01:17 two periods which are well known
0:01:19 in the seerah literature and the
0:01:21 biography literature as the meccan
0:01:23 period and the medinan period
0:01:25 the meccan period was a period of time
0:01:28 where the prophet and his companions
0:01:29 were being boycott
0:01:31 boycotted and tortured and you know
0:01:33 obviously the
0:01:34 the muslims were on the back foot if you
0:01:36 want to call it that and being oppressed
0:01:38 as minorities
0:01:39 so she said this is the version of islam
0:01:42 which is not basically terroristic she
0:01:44 didn't use those words but
0:01:45 that's what she intended because
0:01:47 throughout the podcast she was talking
0:01:48 about the link between isis and islam
0:01:51 and then the prophet went to medina
0:01:54 and according to her this is when the
0:01:56 violence started to erupt and when
0:01:59 islam became a violent religion and the
0:02:01 prophet became a violent man
0:02:03 now what is it that was so egregious
0:02:06 about her
0:02:07 categorization compartmentalization
0:02:11 and her dichotomous understanding of the
0:02:13 seerah literature
0:02:15 she went on to say i'll tell you she
0:02:17 went on to say
0:02:19 that the basically basic posture of the
0:02:22 muslim people at that time was to force
0:02:24 conversion by the sword
0:02:26 either you become muslim or were going
0:02:28 to kill you and she said this in many
0:02:30 different
0:02:30 interviews which i've already refuted
0:02:33 but i thought
0:02:34 i would give this particular contention
0:02:37 it's due before i do so let's see what
0:02:39 she has to say
0:02:40 and see how joe rogan responds the islam
0:02:43 that was founded by the prophet muhammad
0:02:45 but then the prophet muhammad had two
0:02:48 careers one in mecca and one in medina
0:02:51 when he first established the religion
0:02:53 in mecca he went
0:02:54 around the city asking people to give up
0:02:57 their gods and come to his one god
0:02:59 and he did it by asking he did it by
0:03:02 persuading
0:03:03 talking to people and preaching charity
0:03:06 and goodness
0:03:07 and then 10 years later he moves to
0:03:10 medina
0:03:12 and he established he establishes a
0:03:14 militia
0:03:16 and then things change he starts to give
0:03:19 people a choice
0:03:21 you either come to my one god and you
0:03:23 give up your god
0:03:24 or you die by the sword and any time
0:03:28 from medina
0:03:29 the religion becomes incredibly
0:03:32 successful
0:03:33 and he goes beyond arabia into the rest
0:03:36 of the world
0:03:37 and so if you're a muslim in the 21st
0:03:40 century
0:03:40 and there are 1.6 billion muslims in the
0:03:44 world
0:03:45 if you're a muslim and you say i'm a
0:03:47 peace loving muslim
0:03:48 i don't want to impose my religion on
0:03:50 anyone else you're invoking muhammad in
0:03:53 medina
0:03:55 if you say well i think
0:03:58 jihad means that we must take our
0:04:01 religion seriously and convert other
0:04:03 people
0:04:05 and if they refuse to convert then we'll
0:04:07 use violence
0:04:08 then you're invoking muhammad in medina
0:04:12 you said medina twice you said medina
0:04:14 the first time as well
0:04:16 okay i'm sorry the fir the peaceful
0:04:18 muhammad is not medina
0:04:19 it is the peaceful muhammad is mecca
0:04:22 so mecca is where he first came out and
0:04:25 so if he says
0:04:27 if if a muslim today says unto you your
0:04:30 religion unto me mine i'm tolerant all
0:04:32 of that you are invoking
0:04:34 mecca if you're invoking jihad
0:04:39 you know the islamic state of iraq and
0:04:42 syria
0:04:43 isis al-qaeda and some who are
0:04:46 sometimes violent but not all the time
0:04:49 the muslim brotherhood and other
0:04:50 organizations and movements
0:04:52 they're invoking muhammad in medina
0:04:55 because in medina muhammad made it very
0:04:58 clear
0:04:59 you spread the religion by word of mouth
0:05:03 by example but also
0:05:07 by the sword by violence that's medina
0:05:10 islam so i think it would be more
0:05:12 accurate to say
0:05:14 there's just one islam at this point
0:05:17 that's unreformed
0:05:18 now joe rogan doesn't know anything
0:05:20 about islam and
0:05:21 just like jordan peterson and many of
0:05:23 those individuals they have
0:05:25 not spoken to anybody who has trained in
0:05:27 the islamic sciences
0:05:28 and so they have not educated themselves
0:05:30 or even cared to educate themselves
0:05:32 about islam as a world religion followed
0:05:34 by almost
0:05:36 a third of the world's population and so
0:05:38 he's nodding along
0:05:39 and kind of just taking whatever she has
0:05:41 to say on face value as if
0:05:43 this ultracrypterian individual isn't
0:05:45 some kind of trained
0:05:46 theological expert which she is not
0:05:49 she does not provide and this is very
0:05:51 important as as with her social
0:05:54 um kind of science sociological
0:05:57 investigations she provides no evidence
0:06:00 for any of her claims
0:06:02 and this should have been a red flag for
0:06:03 joe rogan what's the evidence that
0:06:06 there's been this transition and that
0:06:08 there's this forced conversion narrative
0:06:10 but he didn't do any of that he just
0:06:11 took everything which he said on face
0:06:12 value
0:06:14 what is the evidence against it you may
0:06:16 ask well this is the evidence against it
0:06:18 it goes to chapter 2 verse 256 of the
0:06:21 quran
0:06:21 it says there is no compulsion in
0:06:25 religion
0:06:28 that falsehood has been made clear from
0:06:30 true truth has been made clear from
0:06:31 falsehood
0:06:32 for me
0:06:43 then they have held on to the correct
0:06:45 type of anchorage
0:06:48 which cannot be undone this is the verse
0:06:52 which is undoubtedly unequivocally and
0:06:56 unambiguously
0:06:58 telling us as muslims that we cannot
0:07:01 force people to become muslim if they
0:07:03 don't want to become muslim
0:07:04 and that this is not our effort our
0:07:06 objective
0:07:08 or our standard or our morality
0:07:12 this verse is a general verse
0:07:15 and i may add revealed in medina not in
0:07:19 mecca
0:07:20 which goes completely counter narrative
0:07:22 to what this individual said
0:07:25 and this verse was revealed at a time
0:07:28 where a jewish woman
0:07:30 swore that she would raise her child as
0:07:32 a jew
0:07:33 and people in medina probably muslims
0:07:37 who had the child was were worried that
0:07:41 these children would be born
0:07:43 or raised as jews whilst they were
0:07:45 muslims and this is narrated in the
0:07:47 authentic traditions of the prophet the
0:07:49 prophet said
0:07:51 he basically narrated this same
0:07:53 sentiment that there is no
0:07:54 compulsion here we can't force people
0:07:58 to become muslim if they don't want to
0:08:01 be muslim
0:08:02 and that is certainly not what islam
0:08:05 says
0:08:06 in medina or in mecca
0:08:10 moreover there is a very famous hadith
0:08:13 of the prophet
0:08:14 where the saw his sword he went to sleep
0:08:16 and his sword was on a tree
0:08:18 he woke up and a man started holding the
0:08:21 sword
0:08:22 and he was asking the prophet if he was
0:08:24 worried or
0:08:25 scared or something like that he said no
0:08:26 allah will protect me god will protect
0:08:28 me
0:08:29 and as he said that the guy's sword fell
0:08:31 off and it went into the prophet's hand
0:08:33 so now imagine this the prophet is
0:08:35 holding the sword
0:08:36 and the guy is there he's seen
0:08:39 that this miracle if you want to call it
0:08:42 that that the sword
0:08:43 transferred into the prophet's hand and
0:08:46 the hadith goes on to say
0:08:49 that the prophet asked him
0:08:52 accept me as the messenger etc he said
0:08:54 no but i'm not gonna fight you or your
0:08:56 people
0:08:57 now bear in mind bear in mind the
0:08:59 prophet is holding the sword
0:09:01 and the man is right in front of him
0:09:03 saying i'm not going to accept you as a
0:09:05 prophet
0:09:06 and i'm not going to be a muslim now if
0:09:09 the narrative was true
0:09:10 and this was in medina if the narrative
0:09:12 was true
0:09:13 then the prophet should have chopped his
0:09:15 head off and said no well if you don't
0:09:16 accept my way i'm going to kill you
0:09:18 instead he let him go and that man
0:09:21 praised the prophet to his people saying
0:09:22 this man is the best person
0:09:24 that has ever been sent or something in
0:09:26 hyperbole to that extent
0:09:29 so that's another evidence and i can
0:09:32 continually
0:09:34 quote evidences in the medinan period
0:09:36 which go completely counter narrative
0:09:39 just read chapter 4 verse 90 of the
0:09:40 quran
0:09:48 has except for the ones you don't fight
0:09:52 the ones who
0:09:53 come to you and you have a treaty with
0:09:56 them
0:09:58 okay you have a treaty with them a
0:09:59 contract with them or they come with
0:10:02 open chests that they don't want to
0:10:04 fight you
0:10:06 in other words the verse continues
0:10:10 you have no way against them in other
0:10:11 words there's no reason to fight these
0:10:13 individuals
0:10:13 the quran is filled with things like
0:10:16 this
0:10:16 people just have to read the quran and
0:10:18 understand it contextually
0:10:20 i think what's really going on is that
0:10:23 these individuals not even reading the
0:10:24 quran
0:10:25 joe rogan i doubt he's even read the
0:10:27 translations of the meanings of the
0:10:28 quran english
0:10:29 jordan p is in the same thing and most
0:10:31 of the other people
0:10:32 which is quite shameful for public
0:10:34 intellectuals like that's actually quite
0:10:36 embarrassing
0:10:37 people that are meant to be public
0:10:38 intellectuals in the west and edify
0:10:39 their audiences
0:10:41 are a not doing like basic background
0:10:44 checks on a huge
0:10:45 thing as religion and b only calling on
0:10:48 to their show
0:10:49 those individuals who have unsympathetic
0:10:51 views to islam and muslims
0:10:54 really they should be ashamed of
0:10:55 themselves and this high time the muslim
0:10:57 community put pressure on them
0:10:59 for doing what they're doing they've
0:11:01 created for themselves an echo chamber
0:11:03 of anti-islamic thought and they can't
0:11:07 for whatever reason come to reason
0:11:11 and start thinking about this matter
0:11:13 properly
0:11:14 and another thing which needs to be
0:11:16 mentioned is that when the prophet
0:11:17 salallahu when he went to medina he
0:11:19 in fact established a constitution and
0:11:22 in that constitution he
0:11:23 explicitly assured
0:11:27 the uh them the the the blood on the
0:11:30 life and the protection of the jews
0:11:33 and the other unbelievers in the area
0:11:34 explicitly and this is mentioned in many
0:11:36 uh books and the ways which are referred
0:11:39 to as narrations
0:11:40 for example she had a zohori in his uh
0:11:43 mahazi it's a particular book
0:11:44 and a source not only that but people
0:11:46 that so someone will say
0:11:48 well this is something which is
0:11:49 abrogated and is no longer like that
0:11:52 but if that is the case then how comes
0:11:54 after him the sahaba
0:11:56 or the companions for example
0:11:59 when he conquered the jerusalem
0:12:03 he came in and he told the people that
0:12:06 you the same kind of sentiment same kind
0:12:07 of thing he said that your churches are
0:12:09 protected
0:12:10 your lives are protected and if new
0:12:12 jersey mentions this and his book
0:12:15 and many others mention it we can give
0:12:17 you the sources for that
0:12:18 at any point in time that you and this
0:12:20 is well known and in fact you can even
0:12:22 read an orientalist work on it because
0:12:24 i'm mentioning islamic sources
0:12:25 go and read the preaching of islam by
0:12:27 arnold
0:12:29 thomas walker arnold he even mentions
0:12:31 this point
0:12:32 okay so at the end of the day to
0:12:35 give people misinformation when the
0:12:37 reality of it is
0:12:39 in islam there is a type of religious
0:12:42 pluralism
0:12:43 which is not emphasized or even
0:12:44 understood
0:12:46 by westerners like jorgen or jordan
0:12:49 peterson or
0:12:50 ayan who has forged herself into a
0:12:53 western discourse
0:12:54 there is and in fact we have narrations
0:12:57 talking about
0:12:58 jews and christians having their own
0:13:00 spaces to pray in not only that but to
0:13:03 rule with their own laws
0:13:06 with their own religious laws within the
0:13:09 islamic polity
0:13:11 what's where is the narrative of we're
0:13:14 going to kill you
0:13:15 and we're going to convert you by force
0:13:18 when they went into egypt
0:13:20 they left the cops as they were and
0:13:22 that's why we have a healthy
0:13:24 maybe 15 million copts in egypt
0:13:27 not converted into islam as as is
0:13:30 presupposed there are too many evidences
0:13:33 historical and otherwise
0:13:35 to maintain this false claim that
0:13:38 people were being forced to become
0:13:41 muslims
0:13:42 i invite you to joe rogan and all of
0:13:46 these
0:13:46 jordan peterson and all of those i
0:13:49 invite you to just
0:13:50 read the books yourself educate
0:13:53 yourselves of what you respect
0:13:55 don't live in ignorance of something so
0:13:57 important to people's lives
0:13:59 you recommend books on your websites and
0:14:02 you
0:14:03 speak to intellectuals all day and you
0:14:05 haven't even read one of the
0:14:06 actually probably the most read
0:14:08 memorized book on the face of the earth
0:14:10 which is the quran
0:14:11 i say this is a this is the problem of
0:14:13 ignorance
0:14:14 and something has to change but if you
0:14:16 want to continue you can
0:14:18 we will be here if you need us
0:14:33 you