Londoniyyah - Part 30 - The Protected Book | Mohammed Hijab (2022-04-25) ​

0:00:18 welcome to another episode
0:00:21 uh where we're going to be discussing
0:00:22 inshallah the preservation of the quran
0:00:24 this london ear series which we have
0:00:26 covered many many topics now
0:00:28 and there will be seven more episodes
0:00:30 of this particular series
0:00:32 uh and today as we mentioned we're going
0:00:33 to be mentioning or talking about how
0:00:36 the quran has been preserved but before
0:00:38 we do that in sha allah we're going to
0:00:40 hear the recitation
0:00:41 and then we'll come back and talk
0:00:56 foreign
0:01:10 foreign
0:01:14 now on sapiens i've actually spoken
0:01:15 about this before and i've done a
0:01:16 seminar on this before
0:01:18 but this one i want to be more
0:01:20 conversational and what we're going to
0:01:22 be covering
0:01:23 as i did before is whether or not there
0:01:26 is a controversy in the first place what
0:01:27 kind of controversy there is
0:01:30 securing the divine word during the time
0:01:32 of the prophet salallahu the companions
0:01:34 who memorize the quran the quranic
0:01:36 muslim at the time of
0:01:38 manic codex some objections
0:01:41 what is the difference between query art
0:01:42 and
0:01:43 these are very important questions some
0:01:45 main opinions because you'll find that
0:01:47 you know the scholars speak about 40
0:01:49 different opinions on these matters
0:01:51 uh like uh clt mentions that in the
0:01:53 conference quran very famous and what is
0:01:55 a half
0:01:56 this question of what what does it mean
0:01:58 uh there's actually a difference of
0:02:00 opinion on it but we're going to be
0:02:01 talking about the most salient and
0:02:02 prominent opinions on these matters
0:02:05 and then the majority of opinion we're
0:02:07 going to talk about what the majority
0:02:08 opinions are
0:02:11 and the primacy of the oral tradition
0:02:13 and then we're going to have questions
0:02:15 at the end
0:02:16 but before we get into that really i
0:02:18 think the best way to start this
0:02:20 is to ask
0:02:22 you
0:02:23 a question which is
0:02:25 if you were to ask if someone were to
0:02:27 ask you because it's a very staple part
0:02:29 of
0:02:30 conveying the religion of islam
0:02:32 how the quran has been preserved
0:02:35 how would you answer this question in a
0:02:37 basic way
0:02:38 so i'll give you
0:02:40 uh
0:02:41 actually i don't need to give you any
0:02:42 time at all
0:02:44 let's see who
0:02:45 would answer in what way in a basic way
0:02:48 how would you answer this question if i
0:02:50 say look
0:02:51 uh i'm pretending i'm not muslim and say
0:02:53 look i want to know how the quran has
0:02:54 been preserved
0:02:56 what do you mean by preservation and how
0:02:58 has it been preserved
0:03:01 it's been memorized by millions of
0:03:03 people
0:03:04 across the world
0:03:06 um they you know they start when they're
0:03:09 very young
0:03:10 and we have
0:03:12 you know millions of people who've
0:03:13 memorized the quran in its entirety
0:03:19 that's right so a memorization is a very
0:03:21 key aspect of it i think from the very
0:03:22 beginning
0:03:24 um what else would people say
0:03:32 so
0:03:33 now pretend you know you're in a debate
0:03:35 or discussion or conversation or
0:03:36 whatever it may be
0:03:38 so
0:03:38 you're saying you say the quran is
0:03:40 preserved no problem how has the quran
0:03:41 be preserved
0:03:46 it's been collected as well
0:03:49 it's been collected it's been putting
0:03:50 down
0:03:51 okay how so after after that of the
0:03:54 prophet muhammad um yeah
0:03:57 abu
0:03:59 in bakr
0:03:59 to write it down
0:04:01 okay we have a
0:04:03 written uh
0:04:04 tradition as well right good so this is
0:04:08 putting two things together now you got
0:04:09 the the oral tradition the memorized
0:04:11 oral tradition then you have now written
0:04:12 tradition at the time of bakari was
0:04:14 compiled compiled into one book
0:04:16 abu bakr al-sadiq his time was
0:04:18 immediately after the time of the
0:04:20 prophet which is very significant so
0:04:22 you'll say that you know immediately
0:04:24 after the time of the prophet
0:04:26 sir was the caliph
0:04:29 and it was who knows what house it was
0:04:32 in uh was in his
0:04:34 daughter's house hafsah
0:04:37 who's in fact the price prophet uh
0:04:39 prophet muhammad's prophet uh wife and
0:04:42 so that
0:04:43 particular nusrah or that the first ever
0:04:47 copy of the quran was was collated at
0:04:49 that very early time but was there
0:04:51 earlier collation were people writing um
0:04:56 yeah well tell us about that then
0:04:59 i know yeah it was collected in
0:05:00 parchments but people would write it in
0:05:02 deer skin or bones
0:05:04 yeah leaves so it wasn't um
0:05:06 what's the word when you compile um
0:05:08 codified it wasn't it was written on
0:05:10 parchments and stuff like that so
0:05:12 besides the memorization it was in like
0:05:14 different parchments and bones and you
0:05:16 know different things that was
0:05:17 reasonable to be beautiful so that and
0:05:19 certainly
0:05:22 that's something we can say that it's
0:05:23 not just it was not just something which
0:05:25 is
0:05:25 uh after the time of the prophet
0:05:27 salallahu immediately there or
0:05:30 then
0:05:31 they started writing things it was
0:05:32 actually at the time of his uh at the
0:05:34 time of the prophet muhammad sallallahu
0:05:36 himself so much so that you know in the
0:05:38 beginning of revelation it was advised
0:05:41 that the pro that the sahaba don't
0:05:43 actually
0:05:44 write hadith because it can get confused
0:05:46 with the quran
0:05:47 and only later on
0:05:49 in a very famous hadith by ibm
0:05:53 he said
0:05:55 right right
0:05:56 foreign individual a hadith this is not
0:06:00 the quran so
0:06:01 and this will come by the way when we
0:06:03 talk about hadith rejection and all that
0:06:05 kind of thing
0:06:07 this hadith is actually important for
0:06:08 that as well but the point is
0:06:10 that it was actually written down
0:06:13 and who knows
0:06:14 the method
0:06:16 by which and through which
0:06:20 at the time of abu bakr
0:06:22 how and
0:06:24 how was a decision made of what to put
0:06:26 in the quran
0:06:27 and what not to put in the quran
0:06:31 when they were now putting first of all
0:06:33 who was commissioned in the sahaba
0:06:36 who was commissioned with that
0:06:39 right
0:06:41 i think
0:06:42 it was after the battle of yama
0:06:44 there was a lot of you know her father
0:06:46 who died um so they came to the decision
0:06:49 i think i think
0:06:51 i've came to bakara
0:06:52 and said you know this is what's
0:06:54 happening we don't want to fall into
0:06:55 what the people of the book fell into
0:06:57 so obviously
0:06:59 was hesitant he said look i don't want
0:07:00 to do something the process of them
0:07:01 didn't tell us to do
0:07:02 but it was something which they you know
0:07:04 i think he said he made this tahara and
0:07:06 he decided he said you know something
0:07:07 that would be the prophet if he lived he
0:07:09 would have done
0:07:10 um and then they commissioned they had
0:07:11 been throbbed because the process i
0:07:13 think praised them
0:07:14 for this specific task and if i'm not
0:07:16 mistaken there is a um
0:07:18 they used a narration where
0:07:20 one of the companions said that there
0:07:21 was a specific verse that we found it
0:07:23 with nobody except a specific individual
0:07:26 and obviously some people use this and
0:07:27 say oh you see your quran was lost but
0:07:29 actually the
0:07:31 conditions to compare the quran so
0:07:33 strict it was actually this verse
0:07:35 because the the condition was that
0:07:36 anybody that heard it from the process
0:07:38 of selling and has two witnesses that he
0:07:41 that person
0:07:42 that specific verse or passage or surah
0:07:44 so they could they obviously there's a
0:07:46 lot of people that memorize it but that
0:07:48 specific verse um they couldn't find
0:07:50 anybody but individual who had the two
0:07:52 witnesses so that's how strictly it was
0:07:54 said about him he's worth like two two
0:07:56 oh yeah and also like for example
0:07:58 supporting that the person said that
0:07:59 this person's statement i think he came
0:08:01 with one person yeah but they said that
0:08:02 he's worth two because of what was the
0:08:05 what was the generation of the prophet
0:08:06 what was it about that he's got the
0:08:08 exact narration yeah i think it was
0:08:09 something that
0:08:10 basically he was like worth yeah he said
0:08:12 they said something about the prophet
0:08:14 and i think he defended the prophet's
0:08:15 honor and he said from this day like
0:08:16 your witness will be as too yeah and
0:08:18 that's how they use that yeah fantastic
0:08:20 i think that's very good that's a good
0:08:21 summary i think that's correct
0:08:23 the main thing to know is that zade even
0:08:25 thabet he was the one that was
0:08:26 commissioned at the time of bhaka siddiq
0:08:28 at that time
0:08:29 why was he commissioned because he was
0:08:31 proficient he was proficient in
0:08:33 memorization
0:08:34 which is written he was a good
0:08:38 scribe
0:08:39 he knew how to read very well and also
0:08:42 he was uh had memorized the quran a very
0:08:44 very high level
0:08:46 so zebra and therma had been
0:08:48 commissioned in what he called the
0:08:49 legenda it's referred to as a legend
0:08:52 and this legend that is there's two
0:08:54 legends one at the time of abu bakr and
0:08:56 one at the time of uthman
0:08:58 and both times zayd mathematic was the
0:09:00 main feature
0:09:02 and when he was uh
0:09:04 commissioned in this way
0:09:07 as as you've mentioned earlier that's
0:09:09 correct you know you get two witnesses
0:09:11 for each verse and they they came
0:09:13 forward and they gave their verses and
0:09:14 then you had
0:09:16 an entire uh quran which was written and
0:09:20 had been stored at the
0:09:22 house of hafsah
0:09:24 and
0:09:25 this has the ishmael of the sahaba which
0:09:28 is very important i mean all the
0:09:29 companions had pretty much accepted that
0:09:32 this
0:09:32 was correct this is the quran
0:09:36 so that's the first thing we will talk
0:09:38 about the the more controversial uh
0:09:41 legend now which is the time of man but
0:09:43 before we do so
0:09:45 let's go to the controversy straight
0:09:46 away
0:09:52 what is the controversy now that we're
0:09:53 finding i mean before i move on to the
0:09:56 slide let me ask you this question once
0:09:58 again
0:10:00 what do you think
0:10:02 an adversary to islam someone who's
0:10:05 antithetical and opposing to islam would
0:10:08 say
0:10:09 about the quran what's their strongest
0:10:11 argument about the lack of preservation
0:10:12 of the quran
0:10:17 yeah yeah you go the the burning of man
0:10:20 the fact that he um
0:10:22 because
0:10:23 okay well we won't go into why but they
0:10:25 would say that he destroyed all the
0:10:27 copies so you had a lot of infighting
0:10:29 that accused you know and what he did
0:10:31 was he you know shushed everybody
0:10:34 uh and he burned the qurans and codified
0:10:36 it and if i'm a mistaken abdullah bin
0:10:38 masood or abdullah i can't remember one
0:10:40 of those who
0:10:41 they had the quran their own personal
0:10:43 code codex
0:10:45 and he he didn't have the
0:10:47 three calls in there so they say oh you
0:10:48 see he needs a personal copy he didn't
0:10:50 have the free course because that's not
0:10:51 part of the quran and
0:10:53 three yeah it's just following yes just
0:10:55 two months so they would say oh see he
0:10:57 didn't want to hand it over and he was
0:10:59 persistent so uthman came and he burned
0:11:01 like that's the standard narrative okay
0:11:03 good i i think you're you're you're
0:11:05 certainly there you're you're on the
0:11:07 right tracks but there's a there's an
0:11:09 overriding point there make and these
0:11:11 are the evidences that they would use
0:11:13 okay so what's the overriding point that
0:11:14 they want so remember you're trying to
0:11:16 say the quran is preserved
0:11:17 they're saying no the quran is not
0:11:19 preserved and they're going to use these
0:11:21 evidences yeah
0:11:23 and so what's the point that they want
0:11:24 to make
0:11:25 that these evidences show what that's
0:11:27 not that's not preserved but
0:11:30 why does it show that it's not preserved
0:11:31 for them
0:11:33 because why did you have to create a one
0:11:35 standard quran if
0:11:37 there if there wasn't multiple versions
0:11:39 of the god in the first place
0:11:40 exactly perfect here so the fact that
0:11:43 uthman had to burn
0:11:44 all these qurans and the fact that
0:11:47 ibrahimovic had his own codex by the way
0:11:49 he's not the only sahabi that had his
0:11:50 own
0:11:51 muslim i mean many of them had they were
0:11:52 almost
0:11:54 but for example he and other
0:11:56 sahaba had their own readings even you
0:11:58 know on select verses and so on all of
0:12:01 this is indicative of what
0:12:04 was indicated
0:12:06 not for them
0:12:09 there is not one standardized version of
0:12:11 the quran
0:12:13 so they'll say you know we've heard your
0:12:15 ahmadi dats and we've heard your zakir
0:12:17 nikes and we've heard your adidas you
0:12:19 know
0:12:21 we've heard them say we've heard them
0:12:23 say that
0:12:24 every
0:12:26 letter
0:12:27 of the quran every word every character
0:12:30 every diacritical mark
0:12:32 everything has been preserved but if
0:12:33 this is the case then why are we seeing
0:12:35 ibrahimos
0:12:37 recite differently or the burning of the
0:12:39 different edric
0:12:41 you know was said to him you know in
0:12:43 fact
0:12:48 kind of
0:12:50 how do we say this
0:12:52 they said basically rescue if you like
0:12:54 rescue your rescue your people because
0:12:56 they are they're fighting each other in
0:12:58 the same way that the
0:13:00 jews and the christians before them were
0:13:01 fighting
0:13:02 meaning
0:13:03 this is what they told uthman
0:13:06 yeah meaning that there was some issue
0:13:08 here to do with preservation they're
0:13:09 fighting while they're fighting each
0:13:10 other if they all thought the quran was
0:13:12 the same
0:13:14 there's fighting going on
0:13:16 we have to remember here we're moving
0:13:18 because from abu bakr siddiqu's time
0:13:20 islam
0:13:22 geographically had been pretty
0:13:24 uh kind of isolated yeah
0:13:26 honorable
0:13:29 expanded islam quite massively yeah
0:13:31 through him with the romans and the
0:13:32 persians yep and then you had
0:13:36 arthur manuel fan
0:13:37 okay
0:13:38 and he actually ruled for the longest
0:13:40 time of all four caliphs
0:13:43 because he ruled for 11 years and 11
0:13:45 months practically 12 years
0:13:48 and in his time
0:13:50 islam was in azerbaijan it was in
0:13:51 uzbekistan present-day
0:13:54 afghanistan persia all of these
0:13:56 countries present-day countries
0:13:58 and so these people obviously were
0:13:59 non-arabs
0:14:01 and they were exposed to the quran and
0:14:03 as they had the quran
0:14:06 they were reading in a certain way
0:14:08 and so uthman finally said look
0:14:10 we're only going to read it the way that
0:14:13 the codified or the registered way
0:14:15 anything else is going to confuse
0:14:18 is going to convolute the preservation
0:14:19 of the quran so in a sense this whole
0:14:21 burning of the quran
0:14:23 can easily be dismissed by the fact that
0:14:25 well we go back to the sahaba because
0:14:27 these are the direct recipients of the
0:14:28 quran they heard it firsthand these new
0:14:30 muslims didn't
0:14:32 but what they will say
0:14:35 they will say but hold on
0:14:37 we have manuscripts
0:14:39 differences we have
0:14:41 differences
0:14:43 we have
0:14:44 we even have in bukhari and muslim
0:14:47 in bukhari in muslim itself we have for
0:14:49 example it says
0:14:53 the quran in chapter 92 of the quran it
0:14:56 says and why he who created the zakkar
0:14:58 and the onta the male and the female
0:15:02 and the hadith
0:15:04 so authentic hadith he says
0:15:09 and in fact he was asked why do you read
0:15:11 it like that he said that's the way i
0:15:12 heard it from the prophet
0:15:14 so all time
0:15:15 that you have in front of you
0:15:16 all ten muta i'm being very
0:15:19 uh you know pushing pushing the
0:15:21 objection further
0:15:24 all time
0:15:31 so they'll say doesn't this show right
0:15:34 that there has been tampering that
0:15:36 there's confusion
0:15:37 that there is uh the textual
0:15:40 omission
0:15:41 or insertion
0:15:43 or corruption for you know yeah when you
0:15:45 want to ask me
0:15:47 because i was
0:15:48 a couple about two years ago i'll speak
0:15:49 to star jamal about this he actually
0:15:51 went for this very very topic
0:15:53 um can we not defend this very issue if
0:15:55 they brought it with when allah says
0:15:58 that if we
0:16:00 if we choose to make just a longer
0:16:02 paragraph like um
0:16:04 someone versus forgotten
0:16:06 we would
0:16:07 you probably know the verse if you guys
0:16:08 don't please say in english uh which if
0:16:10 we
0:16:11 cause them to be forgotten we will we
0:16:12 will send something better
0:16:15 uh what's the ayah do you know that yeah
0:16:16 the the this is uh
0:16:19 no no he is not
0:16:20 he
0:16:30 we will not create something to be
0:16:31 forgotten except what allah has willed
0:16:33 exactly so can we not say for example i
0:16:35 mean muslim for example it says that um
0:16:39 how he um
0:16:40 memorized it was in that way and then
0:16:42 the other word which was
0:16:45 what was missing
0:16:47 yes so then this does not fit in there
0:16:49 where allah
0:16:50 says that we will say something better
0:16:52 because what is done what allah has done
0:16:53 is now and he said it's by the one who
0:16:55 created the man and the woman
0:16:57 so he's actually sent a better version
0:16:59 in the company so you're saying could it
0:17:01 not be that's the answer is that would
0:17:02 be that is an answer that some uh might
0:17:05 have so we can it has its problems how
0:17:07 it has this big problem i just want to
0:17:08 know like if yeah yeah it has its
0:17:10 problems um
0:17:12 because it happened after
0:17:15 basically the prophet muhammed and we'll
0:17:16 come to this yeah
0:17:18 before he died
0:17:20 as we know every ramadan
0:17:23 angel gabriel used to come to him inside
0:17:25 the quran
0:17:26 and before he died he came to him twice
0:17:27 this is called
0:17:29 the last
0:17:30 recitation now this
0:17:33 thing of abu dhabi coming and you know
0:17:36 this could easily be said to be after
0:17:39 so it's after the prophet sallam died
0:17:42 and you know the evidence of that is
0:17:44 that if he was alive then they would
0:17:45 have just solved it by going to the
0:17:46 prophet
0:17:47 no that's fine just because somebody for
0:17:49 example if i heard the prophet salallahu
0:17:50 in a certain way
0:17:51 um and i know it i and i didn't go back
0:17:54 to him to be updated of the final
0:17:55 version argument's sake how is that
0:17:57 wrong for me to come this is the issue
0:17:59 right so the que the question is that
0:18:01 someone as close to the prophet exactly
0:18:03 that that who's now
0:18:05 being so and i'm this is very important
0:18:07 that we push it right yeah but someone
0:18:09 that's very important like about that
0:18:10 that's pushing the envelope like this
0:18:11 and saying no i heard it from the
0:18:12 prophet i'm not going to change it and
0:18:14 he's hearing it from other sahabah
0:18:16 that's saying that we heard it like this
0:18:18 you know this is insistence
0:18:21 because in the sense of hadith we have
0:18:22 for example
0:18:24 if i'm not mistaken where they say if
0:18:25 they have um a um
0:18:28 is it the effect
0:18:29 where if they say if one person comes
0:18:30 and says no because it's and then and
0:18:32 then there's no no no no no no no
0:18:34 numerous because like from why not no no
0:18:36 not with not with sahabah this is this
0:18:39 for example
0:18:41 he's got a good memory comes and says
0:18:42 i've heard it this way and then you have
0:18:44 11 12 sahabah whose memory is not that
0:18:46 good wouldn't it wouldn't that override
0:18:48 him no because and you've got 11 12 we
0:18:50 were saying the same thing the issue no
0:18:52 they wouldn't override them because the
0:18:53 issue here is um
0:18:55 the with the quran is a little bit
0:18:56 different okay and we'll come to the
0:18:59 reason why the hadith sciences don't
0:19:00 work fully in line with the quranic
0:19:02 sciences
0:19:03 is because of this thing of ahref
0:19:06 okay so where there is a possibility
0:19:07 that you could have two readings of the
0:19:09 same verse
0:19:10 okay now the thing is with hadith it's
0:19:13 somewhat similar but there's not
0:19:14 contradiction here
0:19:16 yes so what you're talking about is
0:19:18 feminist
0:19:20 or the the issue of when there are two
0:19:22 hadiths that are contradicting each
0:19:23 other yes
0:19:24 and then if for example
0:19:26 he mentions
0:19:27 another very basic book he says that you
0:19:29 know you have six sages
0:19:30 and he says these are the stages one two
0:19:32 three four five and then at the end of
0:19:33 it you know you do whatever and then you
0:19:35 you choose one of them the issue is also
0:19:37 if
0:19:38 are we saying that this sahabi is not ad
0:19:41 we're not saying that we could this is a
0:19:42 mistake if we say this is not
0:19:44 okay
0:19:45 because also
0:19:46 because allah has made them
0:19:49 which means that they're all trustworthy
0:19:51 the signs of hadith
0:19:54 no they're not infallible but the the
0:19:55 science of hadith is to determine who is
0:19:59 can narrate the hadith or not but can
0:20:01 only write the hadith so basically this
0:20:02 one it says for example
0:20:04 the one
0:20:06 who created no by the man and woman and
0:20:08 then the other one is by the one who
0:20:10 created the man or woman so it's not
0:20:11 contradiction you're saying
0:20:13 it adds on to it yeah but the question
0:20:15 now is i'm pushing the envelope to you
0:20:18 if someone comes and says to you well
0:20:20 actually uh
0:20:21 why is it different in the first place
0:20:24 we appreciate there's no contradiction
0:20:26 but why is there very i i would
0:20:27 personally say that for example he may
0:20:30 have heard even though he's close to the
0:20:31 process of selling he may have heard it
0:20:33 in this way and was not aware of that
0:20:35 the process
0:20:37 had um allah had sent something which
0:20:40 added on to it which is the final
0:20:41 version he did not come to it he didn't
0:20:43 know about it because we know if there's
0:20:45 multiple sahabah who are coming and
0:20:46 telling him that this is how it is yeah
0:20:49 yeah but this is this
0:20:50 is that would be a satisfactory answer i
0:20:52 don't think yeah that's why
0:20:54 here's the thing right so let's let's go
0:20:56 back this is very important right yeah
0:20:58 um
0:21:00 going back to the point
0:21:04 we need to understand two things very
0:21:06 well to answer these questions
0:21:09 to to answer them satisfactorily yeah
0:21:12 we need to understand what an half
0:21:15 could be it's not just what half is what
0:21:18 i have is by the way there's difference
0:21:19 of opinion
0:21:21 but what i have could be there's no
0:21:22 difference of opinion and i'll tell you
0:21:24 what this means yeah
0:21:26 but this is an important point which we
0:21:28 will come back to
0:21:29 yeah we will come back to it today but i
0:21:31 put this out there just to get your
0:21:32 synapses moving a little bit yeah the
0:21:34 next thing is okay
0:21:37 uh
0:21:39 is the following
0:21:43 there are variant readings of the quran
0:21:46 admission number one
0:21:48 and this has never been denied by any
0:21:51 scholar of islam
0:21:53 ever
0:21:54 there's not there's never been a scholar
0:21:56 in the history of islam that has said
0:21:58 that there are no variant readings of
0:22:00 the quran now what you're seeing in the
0:22:02 popular apologetics front
0:22:04 especially from non-muslims and
0:22:06 adversaries to islam
0:22:07 is that they're making it seem like some
0:22:09 kind of a secret
0:22:11 there are institutes in london forget
0:22:14 about going abroad i mean in london that
0:22:15 they teach you the variant readings you
0:22:17 memorize it in one reading and then the
0:22:19 other reading and then the third reading
0:22:21 the islamic narrative simply states the
0:22:23 following
0:22:24 it states that the quran has been
0:22:26 revealed in
0:22:28 variant readings
0:22:30 now
0:22:30 what do we mean by that
0:22:32 we don't mean the whole narrative
0:22:34 there's about 77 000 words of the quran
0:22:38 of 77 000 words
0:22:42 how many words do you think
0:22:45 have
0:22:46 variant readings
0:22:49 less than a point of percent
0:22:51 yeah this is absolutely yeah 700
0:22:55 700
0:22:57 and what kind of variants are we talking
0:22:59 about
0:23:01 we are talking about variance which does
0:23:03 not have a narrative altering impact
0:23:08 that means this is so important okay so
0:23:09 if there's anything you're going to take
0:23:10 from today is this
0:23:13 there are 77 000 odd words of the quran
0:23:17 if you look at all of the variances that
0:23:20 exist in this in the art there are about
0:23:23 700 words which have different readings
0:23:27 and
0:23:28 this research and i'll show you in the
0:23:29 in the references which shows outside of
0:23:32 the template about 20 with authentic
0:23:35 chains including what i've just
0:23:36 mentioned that
0:23:38 that one 19 actually to be exact
0:23:41 have
0:23:42 variances which
0:23:44 are variances which are authentic
0:23:46 authentication
0:23:49 that is about what 700 750 this is what
0:23:52 we're talking about out of 77 000 what's
0:23:54 that like you said less than a percent
0:23:56 right
0:23:58 less than point of a percent and none of
0:23:59 it has what a narrative altering impact
0:24:03 like if we go back to this point um
0:24:08 the difference between and he who
0:24:10 created the zakar and the
0:24:13 the one who created the male and the
0:24:14 female versus
0:24:16 uh and by i i allah is swearing by that
0:24:20 the male and the female
0:24:22 does it
0:24:23 does it alter the narrative
0:24:26 so it doesn't alter the narrative
0:24:29 it's like not we're talking about moses
0:24:30 now he's going to see pharaoh or or isa
0:24:33 he's going to you know whatever whatever
0:24:34 the story is
0:24:36 it's not being changed by these
0:24:38 differences
0:24:39 which begs the question
0:24:41 why do these differences exist in the
0:24:43 first place if the quran is meant to be
0:24:45 preserved
0:24:46 and the answer is there is a hadith on
0:24:48 this actually a very well-known hadith
0:24:51 in fact the hadith of this is
0:24:56 authenticated to the highest level
0:24:58 where
0:25:02 angel jibril
0:25:04 to
0:25:05 make the quran
0:25:06 easy for the sheikh al-fani for the
0:25:09 elderly people and for the weak
0:25:12 so in other words make it easy
0:25:14 facilitative yeah
0:25:17 says okay
0:25:19 so he made that one time and then allah
0:25:21 he said okay the the angel gave him one
0:25:24 uh wedge one way of reading it and then
0:25:26 he made
0:25:31 he said i want you know another way of
0:25:33 doing it so sometimes you'll find one
0:25:35 words which can be pronounced
0:25:38 in different ways which doesn't change
0:25:40 their meanings and sometimes it changes
0:25:42 the meanings but it doesn't change the
0:25:44 meaning
0:25:46 in a narrative altering way it only does
0:25:47 so to facilitate it
0:25:50 for the people to read and understand
0:25:53 remember islam is a religion which aims
0:25:55 to get through to as many people as
0:25:56 humanly possible
0:25:59 and so for those people who
0:26:02 who couldn't understand certain phrases
0:26:04 certain phrases were were substituted
0:26:06 with other phrases but both were correct
0:26:08 and both came from the prophet this is
0:26:09 the narrative
0:26:12 so the question is why is it then
0:26:15 that
0:26:16 with that
0:26:17 and this is
0:26:18 so we've already established
0:26:20 part one of the answer yeah the variants
0:26:23 don't go against our preservation
0:26:25 narrative that's pretty
0:26:26 we believe in
0:26:28 the variance
0:26:30 we believe in them actually
0:26:32 the second thing is okay no problem you
0:26:34 believe in the variance and you have the
0:26:36 chains of narration and of course
0:26:37 everyone here knows the chains of
0:26:39 narration what that means i didn't even
0:26:41 mention it because everyone should know
0:26:42 it
0:26:44 that is something that is narrated by
0:26:45 someone else that is narrated by someone
0:26:46 else and so on
0:26:48 going back to the prophet but the
0:26:50 question is how do you explain the
0:26:53 variants that are outside the ten karat
0:26:56 which you call
0:26:58 which authentic for example
0:27:00 there's no
0:27:02 which has
0:27:04 it
0:27:05 so i want you to spend just two minutes
0:27:07 speaking to the person next to you
0:27:10 to try and get some answers to this
0:27:12 question because this is a
0:27:14 intermediate level
0:27:15 interrogation
0:27:17 before you had the basic level
0:27:18 interrogation because the basic
0:27:20 questions are the ones you've mentioned
0:27:21 why is the quran be burned by of man
0:27:24 why is the uh you know
0:27:26 whatever you know
0:27:28 whatever they say you know i don't know
0:27:29 what they say to be honest but the
0:27:31 secondary ones is like this okay why are
0:27:33 there variants it's a basic question
0:27:35 actually why they're variants and then a
0:27:36 secondary question is think something
0:27:38 like this
0:27:39 why are there variants which don't agree
0:27:41 with any of the
0:27:44 so are you saying that the the karats
0:27:46 don't
0:27:51 yes
0:27:52 so before you answer spend two three
0:27:55 minutes speaking to the person next to
0:27:56 you all right
0:27:58 and then and then we'll come back okay
0:28:02 now let's uh let's come back
0:28:05 let's this is uh
0:28:07 to to frame this again this is a kind of
0:28:09 intermediate level
0:28:10 interrogation
0:28:13 someone's going to come to you and say
0:28:14 well you're saying the quran is
0:28:16 preserved you're saying that you have
0:28:18 chains of narration you're saying that
0:28:20 it was memorized by the people
0:28:22 and the sahaba the companions of the
0:28:23 prophet and that there's chains of
0:28:24 narration and that these are authentic
0:28:26 and that there was also a written aspect
0:28:29 we understand that we appreciate that we
0:28:31 accept that no problem
0:28:33 however what we're saying
0:28:35 is that
0:28:37 there are some
0:28:39 there are some readings some variants in
0:28:42 the quran
0:28:44 of the quran
0:28:46 which are not
0:28:49 in
0:28:51 the
0:28:52 10
0:28:53 that you are claiming to be the
0:28:54 authentic ones
0:28:55 does that mean to say that the tank that
0:28:58 you are saying the authentic the
0:28:59 authentic ones
0:29:01 are
0:29:02 uh
0:29:04 missed out
0:29:06 a correct variant therefore the quran is
0:29:07 not preserved
0:29:09 respond
0:29:18 so i guess one of the reasons would be
0:29:21 the um
0:29:23 like we were mentioning that some people
0:29:25 may have been elderly and senile so they
0:29:27 could have been mistaken
0:29:29 and there would have been ways of
0:29:30 identifying whether someone was known to
0:29:32 have been
0:29:34 old senile or had a bad memory or known
0:29:36 as a liar so if they were known in the
0:29:38 community as someone who'd cheated
0:29:40 someone before
0:29:41 and you've got a variant and they're in
0:29:43 the chain
0:29:44 yeah and this this chain here
0:29:46 that's one isn't bukhari it's authentic
0:29:49 there's no one in the chain that's uh
0:29:51 that's a liar
0:29:54 was there anyone that would see now no
0:29:56 no uh
0:29:58 so much so that the buhari himself would
0:29:59 put it in place
0:30:03 well then why isn't it and ah you see
0:30:08 is a good question go ahead i think the
0:30:09 only only thing that we thought of was
0:30:12 yeah basically
0:30:13 that
0:30:14 like i said before we we take what the
0:30:17 set yeah and we believe it's like you
0:30:18 said before they trust their
0:30:20 trustworthy um
0:30:22 but we need to also bear in mind that
0:30:24 for example if there's multiple sahabah
0:30:25 and we're talking about the quran and
0:30:26 quran
0:30:28 so it's multiple people in the chain and
0:30:30 different tabakar so it's like we're
0:30:31 talking about
0:30:32 so if that's the case and they have
0:30:35 told abu dharr that this is the final
0:30:36 version we are talking about a mass
0:30:38 conspiracy because what that would mean
0:30:39 is all the sahaba more than like
0:30:42 an individual is a sahaba but there is
0:30:44 individuals that as trustworthy as him
0:30:46 who are coming and informing him so this
0:30:48 doesn't mean he's lying i was that means
0:30:50 that's exactly what he heard and he's
0:30:51 absolutely correct okay but if the quran
0:30:54 is in the final um
0:30:56 uh time the process revealed it from
0:30:58 angel gabriel and was written um
0:31:00 memorized twice there is a very good
0:31:02 reasoning that even though he might be
0:31:03 the closest companions of the prophet
0:31:04 peace be upon him and it can be after
0:31:06 that as well
0:31:07 that he wasn't notified of that you know
0:31:09 this could be for very reasons you know
0:31:11 because the quran is like you said it's
0:31:12 got 77 000 words you know this is as
0:31:15 good as saying that process was walking
0:31:16 around every day reciting the whole
0:31:18 quran and abu dhabi heard it and avoided
0:31:20 it no it might be that the process may
0:31:22 be reciting different parts of the quran
0:31:24 i think it's a very good it's a very
0:31:25 good effort i i would i would say that i
0:31:27 would say i would say you're good at
0:31:28 speaking
0:31:29 i would say please let me talk here yeah
0:31:31 okay
0:31:32 yeah it's very disrespectful for you to
0:31:34 cut me like that
0:31:35 let me carry on my intellectual
0:31:36 discourse um yeah
0:31:37 [Laughter]
0:31:40 please don't laugh at me like that
0:31:43 we have to deal with these peasants in
0:31:44 these ways yeah we refer to them as boys
0:31:47 on the streets yes
0:31:48 so i would personally say bro it's
0:31:50 you've got a group of companions you've
0:31:51 got one companion he's telling the truth
0:31:53 but other companions are informing him
0:31:55 and his motherwater that would be a mass
0:31:57 conspiracy to say that what they have
0:31:59 the updated
0:32:00 version um goes against it's just a
0:32:02 matter of he was not informed yeah this
0:32:04 is what we came up with all right not
0:32:05 good this is it's not a bad it's not a
0:32:07 bad attempt at all how many stars would
0:32:09 you give it out to five huh
0:32:11 i'll give her three
0:32:14 any other any other attempts
0:32:17 so also even if you accept what
0:32:19 i said the argument is uh so the 10
0:32:22 station has missed out something
0:32:24 we could say even if one complete
0:32:26 one
0:32:28 left out of completely not preserved
0:32:30 that still doesn't mean the quran is not
0:32:31 preserved
0:32:33 now
0:32:35 even as long as one
0:32:36 yeah as long as one complete version of
0:32:38 the quran is preserved the message of
0:32:39 the quran is preserved right so even if
0:32:41 like a complete arab is left out and it
0:32:43 hasn't been preserved uh that doesn't
0:32:45 take away from the fact that the quran
0:32:47 is preserved okay fantastic this is
0:32:48 exactly what the early people said um
0:32:51 uh you know some some early people like
0:32:53 him even more jayhead than others and
0:32:55 probably had this view this was a
0:32:56 tabari's view what you're saying here is
0:32:58 a table it's you right
0:33:00 and
0:33:01 i have to say and this goes back to what
0:33:02 is that ahaf now so we've segued into
0:33:05 our hearths
0:33:08 by
0:33:08 ishmael are the categories of change
0:33:12 between the quran
0:33:14 this is what the heart is now let me
0:33:16 give you an example
0:33:18 let me get some books here
0:33:21 i i i don't want to pick up these
0:33:23 atheist books actually i'll pick up
0:33:24 these ones here
0:33:26 okay look
0:33:27 these are
0:33:29 some books i'm just
0:33:30 messing up the situation here okay
0:33:35 are these books everyone
0:33:37 how many books are there one two three
0:33:38 four five
0:33:39 are there five books here
0:33:41 the five books okay fantastic
0:33:44 how can we categorize these books
0:33:48 by subject
0:33:49 beautiful you can you can categorize the
0:33:51 book by subject can you categorize them
0:33:53 in any other way yes size by size color
0:33:56 by color
0:33:58 by by author i think there's yeah you
0:34:00 can you can even if they're different
0:34:01 authors you can right
0:34:04 now the ahref or the the readings or the
0:34:07 variant readings to the
0:34:09 is like this
0:34:12 scholars is the categories of difference
0:34:15 now there's no difference of opinion
0:34:18 that the ahrefs represent categories of
0:34:20 change
0:34:21 whether it's color or size or
0:34:23 author whatever it is in these books
0:34:24 example yeah there's no difference of
0:34:26 opinion
0:34:29 the categories of change between the
0:34:32 qurat
0:34:33 the difference of opinion is
0:34:35 what categories are we talking about
0:34:38 do you see this point
0:34:40 there's no difference of opinion that
0:34:41 the ahrefs represent the categories of
0:34:43 change between
0:34:45 the
0:34:46 the the variant readings that's what
0:34:49 they represent
0:34:50 and we should also say not just the
0:34:51 variant readings but what is referred to
0:34:52 as
0:34:56 sorry the usual is the pronunciational
0:34:59 changes
0:35:00 the furus is the
0:35:02 textual changes so the variance and
0:35:04 readings yeah there's two different
0:35:06 types of category here
0:35:08 the only difference of opinion is on
0:35:10 what category we are talking about
0:35:13 so you'll find ibn al jazeera and he was
0:35:16 a heavyweight probably the major
0:35:18 heavyweight
0:35:21 in islamic
0:35:24 he says look
0:35:25 the difference is ah he thought he said
0:35:27 he literally said i thought about it
0:35:31 i thought about it deeply and this is
0:35:32 what i've come up with yeah
0:35:35 he goes the difference is the seven
0:35:37 because he said there's seven there are
0:35:38 seven categories of change seven
0:35:41 he said the the seven ahrefs the seven
0:35:43 categories of change ah number one
0:35:48 some sometimes you'll find
0:35:50 that verses are put in before and
0:35:52 someone's after
0:35:53 or the words are put before and after in
0:35:55 the same verse
0:35:58 opposite sometimes they have killed and
0:36:00 been killed or killed or they've killed
0:36:02 being killed and killed
0:36:04 as the adatu
0:36:07 that addition
0:36:09 and omission it can be of letters by the
0:36:11 way for example malik and malik what's
0:36:13 the difference between the word malik
0:36:14 and malik is an alif
0:36:16 that's really what the difference is so
0:36:17 the other he says this is a category of
0:36:20 of uh of of of of change
0:36:26 the one who's the doer and the doing
0:36:29 or could be arabi changes okay and he
0:36:31 has seven like that okay he has seven
0:36:33 such categories of change
0:36:37 agreed with him by the way he came
0:36:39 before him anyway right
0:36:41 he was
0:36:42 saying the categories of change are not
0:36:44 these that you've mentioned
0:36:47 he's basically at tabari says the
0:36:49 categories of change is where you have a
0:36:50 word like
0:36:52 which means come over here
0:36:54 come over here you know like the mortal
0:36:56 kombat thing right
0:36:59 you have a word like
0:37:00 this exact example he uses in fact he
0:37:02 says you can have a word like
0:37:05 bill um
0:37:12 it means come over here in arabic
0:37:15 and he says all of these they represent
0:37:17 the different
0:37:21 now why is his why is his view of
0:37:24 quite attractive because it makes sense
0:37:26 that that would make things easier for
0:37:27 different tribes of arabs because some
0:37:29 people they say ta'ala some people say
0:37:31 hello some people will say akbir
0:37:34 it doesn't make as much sense
0:37:36 in my opinion or in the opinion of a
0:37:38 taber let's forget my opinion uh in the
0:37:40 opinion of a tabari and those
0:37:43 not just
0:37:44 others
0:37:48 sorry danny yeah danny and others who
0:37:51 say the same thing that table said they
0:37:53 say
0:37:56 exactly what my said
0:37:58 that
0:38:00 if this is our understanding of
0:38:03 this very important
0:38:05 i want you to make sure you know this
0:38:07 yeah
0:38:07 he said if this is our understanding of
0:38:10 what does it mean to preserve the quran
0:38:16 very important question because
0:38:18 does preserving the quran
0:38:21 mean preserving all of the
0:38:23 do we need all of the ahref like in
0:38:26 order for me to to say the quran has
0:38:28 been preserved
0:38:29 do i need to say
0:38:30 all the acres have been preserved as
0:38:32 well all the different variant readings
0:38:33 have been preserved as well
0:38:35 yeah so it says no
0:38:39 i'll tell you why
0:38:40 he says that
0:38:42 the ahrefs were put in place for what
0:38:43 reason
0:38:46 casey
0:38:47 to make things easy for the people
0:38:50 it was there as an uh to make things for
0:38:52 you don't need it as a matter of
0:38:55 uh necessity you only require as a
0:38:57 stabilizer scaffolding for those people
0:39:00 who can't read it in the in that way
0:39:02 if those people don't exist or they've
0:39:04 started to understand how to read it or
0:39:06 now people are learning this this you
0:39:07 know you can learn arabic then you don't
0:39:09 require that for the preservation of the
0:39:11 quran and you know what he used as a
0:39:13 danny in fact that then he uses this
0:39:14 example you know what he says
0:39:16 he says look
0:39:18 look at the quran
0:39:20 what do you what happens and this is a
0:39:21 trivial question of the quran
0:39:23 what happens if you do a qasem if you
0:39:26 take an oath
0:39:29 and you don't fulfill the oath what is
0:39:30 the punishment if you like or what
0:39:32 what's the consequence in islam for that
0:39:35 or
0:39:37 there's three
0:39:38 consequences
0:39:41 yes six people yeah
0:39:43 yes
0:39:44 these are the three
0:39:46 these are the three either release a
0:39:48 slave or you feed the people
0:39:52 or
0:39:53 uh
0:39:54 fast in three days
0:39:56 now for the focal heart in the room
0:40:02 what what is this
0:40:05 what happens here do i have it
0:40:08 no i mean is this a choice or is it
0:40:12 first i have to go for the slave and
0:40:13 then what is it a choice or is it
0:40:14 compulsion can we not use the evidence
0:40:17 about the man and we can say allah
0:40:18 stipulated in a way of fasting
0:40:20 feeding and freeing
0:40:22 so can we not use the evidence to say no
0:40:24 let me tell you the difference good okay
0:40:25 let me give you the answer right yes
0:40:31 whoever does not find
0:40:33 for do this yes whoever does not find
0:40:35 what in this area is
0:40:42 which means you can choose
0:40:44 you can choose whether you want to free
0:40:45 the slave
0:40:46 or you want to feed the
0:40:48 thing
0:40:50 which means you can choose whereas in
0:40:51 mujahideen it's one after the other you
0:40:54 have to try and find a slave if you
0:40:55 can't find a slave then you do this
0:40:57 one after the other
0:40:59 okay
0:41:00 he says the same thing applies with
0:41:02 achrov
0:41:03 this is these are the self by the way
0:41:04 we're talking about the cellophane
0:41:07 in many ways their opinions are very
0:41:09 much
0:41:10 you know
0:41:11 cut them you can even argue them they're
0:41:13 more important than the opinion of those
0:41:15 who came after them
0:41:17 they're saying
0:41:18 if one of them you can make this
0:41:20 argument if one of them
0:41:23 is not there then
0:41:26 you don't need the other two he said
0:41:27 likewise for the preservation of the
0:41:29 quran to be complete you don't need all
0:41:31 the only need one
0:41:33 you only need one half
0:41:35 because if i recite the quran think of
0:41:38 this for a second if i recite the quran
0:41:40 with one kira
0:41:41 which is
0:41:42 him which is what we recite in tarawih
0:41:45 masjid yeah in ramadan have i recited
0:41:48 the quran fully
0:41:50 undoubtedly correct yeah but if i recite
0:41:52 it only and a half
0:41:53 have i recited all the ojo have i
0:41:56 recited
0:41:57 have i recited
0:41:58 no
0:41:59 so it's impossible for me to have
0:42:01 recited all the araf because the
0:42:03 represent all the differences in
0:42:04 variation
0:42:06 but i've recited the whole quran so in
0:42:08 order for me to have this makes a lot of
0:42:10 sense to me anyway and this is the
0:42:11 opinion of a tabari
0:42:13 and i think in the mujahide as well and
0:42:14 basically
0:42:22 they are saying yeah
0:42:25 that you only need one
0:42:29 so going back to it
0:42:39 this makes it so much easy what'd you
0:42:41 say you you have to go to obligation you
0:42:43 can it's a it's a viable option but the
0:42:46 easiest thing is to say is what
0:42:49 it could very well have been another
0:42:51 half finish
0:42:55 it's done
0:42:56 it's finished
0:42:57 you just say it could have been another
0:42:58 half brother
0:43:00 did you not hear the prophet saying when
0:43:01 he says
0:43:03 that the quran has been sent down on
0:43:05 seven
0:43:06 so now
0:43:08 all we need is one of those
0:43:10 if you're saying abu dhabi say another
0:43:11 way we're saying fine
0:43:13 that could have been a legitimate way
0:43:15 that the prophet taught him how do we
0:43:17 know that very famous hadith of
0:43:20 hashem
0:43:21 you know this hadith
0:43:22 very important
0:43:32 another sahabi companion
0:43:34 and he was reciting suratul for khan
0:43:36 okay
0:43:38 and he
0:43:40 the kind of guy that when he sees
0:43:41 injustice or the something that requires
0:43:44 correction he gets involved in this
0:43:45 matters
0:43:47 and he he heard
0:43:49 hisham hakam reciting it
0:43:53 in a day in a way that is he said
0:43:55 literally in a way which is different to
0:43:56 the what the way that the prophet
0:43:59 he taught me it taught me not just not
0:44:01 just i heard it from him
0:44:04 means he the prophet which means the
0:44:05 prophet used to teach him the quran
0:44:07 it wasn't when the prophet was teaching
0:44:08 and memorizing the quran to the sahaba
0:44:10 it wasn't just a matter of he was
0:44:12 hearing it in the prayer although that
0:44:13 was the case he was teaching it to him
0:44:15 actively
0:44:17 maybe there was even regurgitation
0:44:20 this was deep stuff
0:44:21 so he was getting angry because he said
0:44:23 i know for a fact that when i memorized
0:44:25 the quran with the prophet it wasn't
0:44:27 like the way this guy is doing it
0:44:30 so he waited and he said after when he
0:44:32 finished the prayer what's going to
0:44:33 happen wait it grabbed him up and he
0:44:36 went to the prophet he said you read it
0:44:38 the prophet said okay you read it
0:44:40 and he said you read it he said
0:44:46 this is the way it was revealed and this
0:44:47 is the way it was revealed and then we
0:44:48 found out after this is how it works
0:44:50 there are some select words that the
0:44:52 prophet has revealed or that allah has
0:44:54 revealed in more than one way to the
0:44:56 prophet malik and malik and all you know
0:44:58 those
0:44:59 which do not have a narrative altering
0:45:02 implication
0:45:03 you see
0:45:05 so we say going back to our that's uh
0:45:07 interrogation
0:45:09 we say what
0:45:10 it could have easily been what
0:45:12 another half and by the way you can
0:45:14 paralyze
0:45:16 your opponent with just this sentence
0:45:19 because anything they bring
0:45:21 from the from the hadith
0:45:24 or from any other place that's it could
0:45:26 be another heart it could be
0:45:28 or what about this shared reading
0:45:30 because there's 10 and the fourth joath
0:45:32 oh it could have been half could very
0:45:33 well have been
0:45:36 why is it not a half or why do we not
0:45:38 read with it then if it could have been
0:45:40 half you're telling me there's there's
0:45:41 aspects of the reading of the quran that
0:45:43 you don't know whether it's quran or not
0:45:47 we are saying yes
0:45:49 actually yeah yeah absolutely it does
0:45:51 not the only reason why we're not
0:45:52 reading it is because it does not meet
0:45:54 the criterion for recitation
0:45:57 now of course now the question begs what
0:46:00 is the criterion for recitation does
0:46:02 anyone know what the criterion is
0:46:11 uh criminal three like one of them is
0:46:12 the has to have the the orthomanic
0:46:15 script yep
0:46:16 uh
0:46:17 then i think there's there's something
0:46:18 about like the center of it yep
0:46:22 and the third one like
0:46:23 yeah it's the arabic language yeah good
0:46:25 good this is what even ibn al-jazeera he
0:46:27 mentions this is the triangulated
0:46:30 method it's called triangulation
0:46:33 for for something to be something we
0:46:34 read in the prayer and we consider the
0:46:36 quran
0:46:38 he said it has to fulfill three
0:46:39 criterion
0:46:41 criteria number one it has to have a
0:46:43 senate an authentic narrative uh chain
0:46:45 of narration
0:46:47 and it has to be your startup
0:46:51 now some say he said that is
0:46:54 but what he actually said was that you
0:46:56 started
0:46:58 i don't want to go into the details
0:47:00 but but the point is a lot of people had
0:47:02 to have narrated it number one number
0:47:05 two is
0:47:07 he also mentioned
0:47:09 yeah it has to be
0:47:11 uh in line with the rasmarth many the
0:47:14 classic othmanic text
0:47:16 and the third thing he mentioned is that
0:47:18 it has to be uh a proper way of reciting
0:47:22 the arabic language it can't be
0:47:23 something which is unknown
0:47:25 to the arabs
0:47:26 because otherwise the quran is real in
0:47:28 arabic this the evidence is from the
0:47:30 quran
0:47:31 so it has to meet this triangulated
0:47:33 structure
0:47:34 so if the abu dhabdas one does not meet
0:47:36 that structure because his one what does
0:47:38 it not meet
0:47:41 not not this because you can argue it
0:47:43 does you cannot you argue
0:47:45 more more flagrant is
0:47:48 many yeah
0:47:51 it doesn't mean the russian death of
0:47:52 this kalito structure of the quran
0:47:54 doesn't it's not there
0:47:56 so what athman lafan and the second
0:47:58 legend have decided upon with zaydim and
0:48:01 sabbat and by the way ibrahimov as well
0:48:03 and all of those
0:48:04 was that this is these are the these are
0:48:06 the masahi we're sending
0:48:08 and whatever does not fit in with that
0:48:10 is that which we cannot read
0:48:13 so um
0:48:16 fits in with that but what or if that he
0:48:18 wants it does not
0:48:20 so would you correct someone and the
0:48:21 prayer who says with that could you say
0:48:23 yes we're correct why because it doesn't
0:48:25 mean the arthur mania text
0:48:28 that's the reason why we're correcting
0:48:29 him not because what he's saying could
0:48:30 not have been half now this is a very
0:48:33 fine distinction an important one
0:48:37 that's a very fine distinction important
0:48:38 one because what we're doing here is we
0:48:40 are the standard of preservation when
0:48:43 you look at it from the hadith
0:48:45 perspective is much lesser than that
0:48:47 from the quran perspective
0:48:50 and as a result
0:48:51 then you have less to prove
0:48:53 now because they'll bring you a
0:48:54 manuscript or some art manuscript or
0:48:56 this manuscript or that manuscript and
0:48:57 say well what about this well first of
0:48:59 all it doesn't have a chain anyway it's
0:49:01 not in line with the rest of many
0:49:03 and blah blah blah and it's not maybe
0:49:05 it's not in line with arabic maybe but
0:49:07 you could say
0:49:08 even if it was
0:49:11 even if it was it could have been half
0:49:13 it could have been half
0:49:15 we have the difference between the quran
0:49:16 and the bible is that there is no such
0:49:19 thing as
0:49:22 christianity and judaism
0:49:26 moses didn't say the torah has been
0:49:28 revealed
0:49:31 when it's been written
0:49:33 on the the ten commandments been written
0:49:34 in seven different ways and then they
0:49:35 say that
0:49:36 yeah so
0:49:38 and there's contradiction of course this
0:49:40 as i said to you before and i'll mention
0:49:42 this second difference is there is no
0:49:44 criterion
0:49:46 of authentication this is very important
0:49:49 so before we get to the differences i
0:49:51 want to just summarize this point yeah
0:49:54 we said how do you explain the existence
0:49:58 of authentic narrations
0:50:00 which seemingly do not
0:50:04 are not in line with the ten kerat that
0:50:07 we have today
0:50:09 according to tabari and dany's view what
0:50:10 do we say it could have been a
0:50:13 half
0:50:14 now it will just be fair he would not
0:50:16 agree with this
0:50:17 and others will say because all the had
0:50:20 to be preserved
0:50:21 but that's evil jessaly's view of
0:50:23 preservation that's not islam's view of
0:50:25 preservation because islam is bigger
0:50:27 than ibrahim he's not the only flag
0:50:29 borough for the whole of islam the
0:50:30 mother demean
0:50:32 those like like i said
0:50:34 daniel they had a lower
0:50:37 lower standard for preservation and i
0:50:39 say for apologetic purposes
0:50:42 that is what we should go with why
0:50:44 if we're explaining islam we have less
0:50:46 to prove they have more to try and prove
0:50:49 why are you making the argumentative
0:50:51 target bigger
0:50:52 why are you putting more on your plate
0:50:55 why are you trying to make your life
0:50:56 harder by by arguing for a view
0:51:00 like that when you can argue for a view
0:51:02 which is even the self mentioning
0:51:04 because i've just came 500 years after
0:51:05 the 400 years after or 300 years after
0:51:07 tabari
0:51:08 it's
0:51:09 jani you could easily make that point
0:51:13 and that's it
0:51:14 now i have to say
0:51:17 there are some issues that come along
0:51:19 with that
0:51:20 view
0:51:21 what issues do you reckon come along
0:51:22 with a tabata's view
0:51:25 if someone rejects
0:51:27 did they become a kafir
0:51:30 well on tumblr's view yeah
0:51:33 if it's look
0:51:34 if
0:51:35 give me the give me the give me the way
0:51:37 it works so why is it objection so for
0:51:39 example yeah look like somebody can even
0:51:41 just do that arbitrarily because what
0:51:43 because what you're saying is that
0:51:45 to
0:51:45 uh because
0:51:47 if there's differences between a say the
0:51:49 10 karat then you say okay look there's
0:51:51 there's there's ah of differences here
0:51:53 yeah we don't know exactly how we
0:51:54 categorize them but there are
0:51:56 differences so somebody says arbitrarily
0:51:58 okay fine that's what you're saying to
0:52:00 me for instance that
0:52:02 fine uh that's an example in the eye of
0:52:03 aldo i'm only going to accept the karate
0:52:05 that say uh with the father not the ones
0:52:07 that say with the kessler yeah with the
0:52:09 with the wiping of their feet why though
0:52:11 yeah they do they let's say they do
0:52:13 arbitrarily
0:52:14 yeah do they become a catholic and
0:52:16 you've denied the preservation of the
0:52:19 quran
0:52:20 look it's all really it's about
0:52:22 intention here and it's about who's
0:52:24 doing it and why and when
0:52:25 if because if you answer yes
0:52:27 then you will find someone
0:52:32 so you know what i'm saying but they did
0:52:33 it because they were trying to sort out
0:52:35 chains of narration and they were trying
0:52:37 to sort out arabic language and is this
0:52:39 arabic because it's not and the
0:52:40 triangulated process
0:52:41 if a scholar does it from that
0:52:43 perspective of doing
0:52:45 because this idea of they say there's no
0:52:46 such thing as textual criticism in islam
0:52:49 they say that
0:52:50 have you heard them say that
0:52:52 this is not true there was the whole
0:52:54 there was a thing called
0:52:56 which which emerged in the first 200
0:52:58 years which is literally the contextual
0:53:01 criticism of the quran
0:53:02 that's what it means
0:53:05 so these scholars if they're doing it
0:53:07 because they're trying to sort out what
0:53:08 they think is true
0:53:10 that's not someone coming from something
0:53:12 outside of the quran sunnah or in this
0:53:14 case the quran right and imposing it
0:53:17 for ideological purposes if it's the
0:53:19 latter if it's for ideological purposes
0:53:22 then it's they're coming to the quran to
0:53:24 try and mold it in their image rather
0:53:25 than try and take the quran
0:53:27 as an inspiration in itself
0:53:29 thereupon we say the hakam was
0:53:31 completely different so it's is we can
0:53:33 never with techfield and these issues
0:53:35 will become a kefir and who doesn't the
0:53:37 issue is complicated and it requires
0:53:40 this you can't just say he's a catholic
0:53:42 or he's it doesn't says because say this
0:53:43 thing is called in his generality if a
0:53:45 lay person announces i'm not going to
0:53:46 read it like this especially for
0:53:48 ideological purposes someone says
0:53:51 i'm going to read it in this quran which
0:53:52 is not even in the ten then this person
0:53:54 is a kafir because this person has
0:53:56 ideological reasons and they're doing it
0:53:58 for no scholarly purpose whatsoever but
0:54:00 if it's
0:54:02 because you could fall in your own sword
0:54:03 someone said well actually
0:54:05 himself was doing and so on yeah this is
0:54:08 the thing
0:54:09 i came across some of this stuff like in
0:54:11 in public
0:54:12 he mentions his opinion he says look
0:54:14 like uh i'm not going to say that and
0:54:16 stuff like that but in some eye says
0:54:17 okay this is what some people said and
0:54:18 this is another exactly they said
0:54:20 because of the implications of this
0:54:21 meaning here we're going to have his own
0:54:24 i'm not sure if anyone knows this
0:54:26 there's a tabari right this this guy
0:54:30 tabari is one of the top scholars of
0:54:32 islamic history
0:54:34 he has his own kara
0:54:36 his his school of thought his he had a
0:54:38 school of thought which was uh basically
0:54:40 that was followed just like the imams
0:54:42 were followed but now it's kind of been
0:54:45 subsumed into the chef high school
0:54:48 okay so so just to summarize here
0:54:51 the point is
0:54:52 there's not an easy answer question it's
0:54:54 complicated depends on the the purpose
0:54:56 and uh the tools that they're using and
0:54:58 where they're using it and how they're
0:54:59 using it what they're exposed to and all
0:55:00 these questions yeah
0:55:03 but just to summarize the point and the
0:55:05 sum to summarize
0:55:07 let me ask you just a quick quick one
0:55:09 here
0:55:11 come back to the same questions
0:55:14 because this is one of the tricky ones
0:55:16 i've used it for a purpose
0:55:18 say okay
0:55:20 uh
0:55:21 i have you i've used abu.
0:55:24 but there's other examples
0:55:27 what do you say of
0:55:29 such and such sahabi which authentically
0:55:31 narrated
0:55:33 that said this verse is not uh
0:55:42 you know
0:55:43 it says
0:55:45 uh
0:55:52 you take care of your prayers and
0:55:55 and then in one manuscript it says
0:55:58 literally
0:55:59 so how do you how do you respond to this
0:56:02 huh it could have been a half firstly
0:56:04 could have been a it could have been a
0:56:05 house yeah it could have been and also
0:56:07 there's like uh
0:56:08 there's no uh there's no contradiction
0:56:10 because
0:56:11 like from what i understand anyways with
0:56:13 the the ayah satan was
0:56:16 there's different opinions some say it's
0:56:18 a feature some say something
0:56:20 but you're right and it could be a half
0:56:22 but this is a low there's a lower laying
0:56:24 fruit the lowering fruit is in the
0:56:27 personal must-haves of a lot of the
0:56:28 sahaba a lot of them would actually put
0:56:31 their notes in there
0:56:39 in the um
0:56:41 which company which they said he had
0:56:43 some extra
0:56:45 they here they read like there was a dua
0:56:46 in there and i said this is it oh okay
0:56:49 yeah okay
0:56:50 yeah waving cab yeah so he they said oh
0:56:52 i see he's got and they're like no
0:56:53 that's just his personal notes
0:56:57 so it could be personal notes yes
0:57:00 like especially in our best yeah
0:57:02 uh it could be a half
0:57:05 and it could be abrogated
0:57:08 but if we're going to make the argument
0:57:10 for abrogation we should make we should
0:57:12 have some evidence for it
0:57:13 for what's a good
0:57:15 evidence and it wasn't the powerpoint
0:57:17 what's a good uh example of something
0:57:19 that's been abrogated there's more than
0:57:20 one example in fact
0:57:22 from the quran that we have evidence
0:57:24 that has been abrogated
0:57:28 yeah the stoning versus what about the
0:57:30 press
0:57:31 yes
0:57:33 yeah yeah the witches what's the
0:57:35 evidence that has been abrogated
0:57:39 yes beautiful excellent brilliant so now
0:57:41 you have more tools
0:57:43 so if someone comes to you why is this
0:57:45 narration
0:57:46 in the in hadith and it's not in the
0:57:48 karat
0:57:50 so what we're going to say
0:57:52 it could be a
0:57:54 could be a half
0:57:56 according to the views of a tabery and
0:57:58 so on right
0:58:00 it could be abrogated
0:58:02 it could be
0:58:04 notes
0:58:06 but why do you not accept it as the
0:58:07 quran because it doesn't fulfill that
0:58:10 three criterion
0:58:12 so what do we say
0:58:14 is quran that which fulfills the three
0:58:16 criterion
0:58:17 it's done this is a knockout blow well
0:58:20 it is actually a knockout look there is
0:58:22 no way they can come back from this i
0:58:24 guarantee you to the point where i spoke
0:58:26 to some of them orientalists and so and
0:58:28 they agreed with me
0:58:29 allah they agreed ok they agreed i've
0:58:31 got i've got the chats and stuff
0:58:33 you know i'll show it to you after the
0:58:34 session i'll work as some of it already
0:58:37 is public on my twitter
0:58:39 like this guy van putin and stuff like i
0:58:40 said this is how it is blah blah there's
0:58:42 700 variations and
0:58:45 the the tradition itself explains it
0:58:47 what we just went through he agreed yes
0:58:48 i agree
0:58:49 what i'm saying is a fair-minded person
0:58:52 would agree that this what the quran is
0:58:56 from within the paradigm it fulfills the
0:58:58 criterion for preservation
0:59:00 how do we now compare this with the
0:59:01 bible this is very important the bible
0:59:04 i've been in a text analysis class at
0:59:06 the university of oxford now
0:59:07 i was not good at this because these
0:59:09 guys were they had like greek and hebrew
0:59:11 and i was just like
0:59:12 you know
0:59:13 uh i could share with you the notes and
0:59:15 stuff these guys were on a different
0:59:17 level yeah
0:59:18 however
0:59:19 i remember one thing that this guy said
0:59:23 which will never leave me was it
0:59:24 professor you know top guy in the
0:59:26 clarendon institute you know
0:59:29 he said look
0:59:30 i was asking them what's the criterion
0:59:32 for what you put into the bible and what
0:59:33 you take out
0:59:35 if i were to ask you this question
0:59:36 before i proceed how would you answer
0:59:39 three
0:59:40 what are the three criterion again
0:59:42 um
0:59:49 a chain of narration yeah
0:59:51 we have we do have a criteria we have a
0:59:52 criterion right
0:59:54 he said yeah it's not quite right
0:59:57 they don't have a criterion for what to
0:59:59 put in and what to take out of the bible
1:00:03 the septuagint is not even in the
1:00:05 language
1:00:07 it's in greek you know they have to do
1:00:09 they have to translate it from greek to
1:00:10 hebrew and then put it in the bible
1:00:13 that's what they have to do and it's one
1:00:15 of the strongest manuscripts they have
1:00:17 so why would that not be without because
1:00:19 it's not that same language would say
1:00:21 this is not fulfill the criterion
1:00:23 it also it's not it's not
1:00:26 it doesn't have what a chain of
1:00:28 narration so it doesn't fulfill that
1:00:30 that criteria either
1:00:32 and what's the other one it's an
1:00:33 anonymous officer
1:00:35 there's it's anonymous offices
1:00:36 there's no russian there's no russian
1:00:38 there's no there is no lesson there is
1:00:40 no there is no skeletal continental
1:00:42 screen so it doesn't before any of our
1:00:44 criterion
1:00:45 so they have no criterion we have a
1:00:48 criterion we have a process of
1:00:51 adjudicating and authenticating what
1:00:54 comes in what comes out so what they're
1:00:56 trying to do sorry to think
1:00:58 they're trying to create a fallacy
1:01:00 we have variants you have variants
1:01:02 we have variants which are explainable
1:01:05 and explicable and intelligible from
1:01:07 within our paradigm
1:01:10 we have a process of authentication you
1:01:12 have variants and by the way they're not
1:01:14 contradictory
1:01:15 they're consistent with one you have
1:01:17 variants which are contradictory that no
1:01:20 historian would take seriously that
1:01:22 there is no process of authentication
1:01:24 like did he take the money or did he
1:01:26 refuse it and did he like so
1:01:28 yeah oh beautiful
1:01:30 so many things you know this is not it's
1:01:32 not controversial so how can you compare
1:01:34 the two things
1:01:36 you see they've actually well like how
1:01:38 can you compare the two things you have
1:01:40 variants we have variants your variants
1:01:42 you're getting from different languages
1:01:45 you don't even have in the same language
1:01:46 it's not even the same language our
1:01:48 variants
1:01:49 are
1:01:50 very detailed process of authentication
1:01:53 sorry any questions before alice is
1:01:55 already very uh very very important
1:01:57 meetings to go to next are you going to
1:01:59 ask something bro before you leave
1:02:01 yeah what did you want to say something
1:02:02 actually it's very beneficial like you
1:02:04 made
1:02:09 [Laughter]
1:02:15 thank you very much you know i hope
1:02:17 everyone did as well and i hope
1:02:19 well thank you i hope they did it
1:02:21 as well
1:02:24 i hope they did as well uh we made it a
1:02:26 bit more free-flowing today and we we
1:02:29 introduced a few interrogations to see
1:02:30 how this kind of thing would play out
1:02:32 and we've got nothing uh to hide and
1:02:34 just one thing before i do forget uh the
1:02:37 point about 700 uh
1:02:39 textual variances is written in a book
1:02:41 called
1:02:42 the seven
1:02:44 books or the seven readings of
1:02:46 yeah who is one of the the early
1:02:49 scholars this is where the figure 700
1:02:51 comes from
1:02:52 yeah it's from ibrahimovic
1:02:53 so that's the reference for that and
1:02:55 you'll see more references if you look
1:02:56 at the powerpoint that i've sent you'll
1:02:57 see all the references
1:02:59 below each
1:03:00 slide and i hope you guys have benefited
1:03:01 at home assalamu alaikum
1:03:03 again