Radical Zionist Embarrassed by Muslim Debater (2021-08-31) ​

0:00:00 to learn muslim advocacy for palestinian
0:00:01 rights and the reputations against the
0:00:03 arguments of the zionist movement i'll
0:00:05 be teaching a 10-week course at the
0:00:07 quran institute for online and on-site
0:00:10 students on palestine advocacy
0:00:13 the 10-week course will consist of 30
0:00:15 hours of lesson time and an almost equal
0:00:18 amount of tutorial time that will go in
0:00:20 depth into the history of palestine its
0:00:22 peoples throughout history the zionist
0:00:24 movement humans and justifications they
0:00:26 use the plight of the palestinians as a
0:00:28 result of zionism both in history and
0:00:30 today and understanding the solutions
0:00:33 for the occupation of palestine
0:00:36 for all those who want to seriously
0:00:37 challenge what is going on in palestine
0:00:39 and make our campaign to bring
0:00:41 international pressure to bear upon
0:00:42 israel as would happen to south africa
0:00:44 we need to equip ourselves with powerful
0:00:46 knowledge about the history of palestine
0:00:48 and know how to counter zionist
0:00:50 arguments indisputably so join me on the
0:00:52 10-week course and raise the bar on
0:00:54 muslim advocacy for justice and the
0:00:56 rights of our press brothers and sisters
0:00:58 in palestine register at the quran
0:01:01 institute for slash palestine
0:01:05 israel is just another case study in the
0:01:08 crimes of nationalism in that it is a
0:01:11 nation state exclusively for one racial
0:01:14 group doesn't mean that it excludes
0:01:16 other racial groups but the nation state
0:01:18 only represents
0:01:20 one particular
0:01:21 group which is usually facilitated by a
0:01:24 hopeful majority of that particular
0:01:26 group so and now not to go back to the
0:01:29 founders of zionism as you mentioned um
0:01:30 them
0:01:31 um vito herzl basically
0:01:35 didn't really give much regard to the
0:01:36 natives of palestine didn't give much
0:01:39 regard to how they're going what about
0:01:41 their aspirations uh what about their
0:01:43 representation in government what about
0:01:45 government for them so first yes he
0:01:47 tried to ask the ottoman khalif
0:01:50 uh if he could if he could sell it if
0:01:51 they could sell the land to the zionists
0:01:53 and of course he said no
0:01:55 uh but nationalism doesn't just say oh
0:01:57 well okay then fair dudes will accept
0:01:59 that no nationalism says we need to try
0:02:01 all the strategies because the ends
0:02:03 justifies um
0:02:05 the means if it is necessary for the
0:02:07 national interest if it is necessary for
0:02:10 the national interest and so they look
0:02:12 to other avenues and britain was a very
0:02:14 willing avenue especially the money and
0:02:16 the support and also advantages for
0:02:18 britain at the time uh balfour gave an
0:02:21 introduction to a book on the history of
0:02:22 zionism so he was certainly a solid
0:02:24 supporter of um zionism if you think
0:02:28 that um
0:02:30 that the colonies in south africa
0:02:33 or the colonies of the the pilgrims of
0:02:35 the the puritan pilgrims in pennsylvania
0:02:38 uh were
0:02:39 were colonialism were set their colonies
0:02:42 these were established mainly at the
0:02:44 resources of private individuals of
0:02:46 course with the permission of the
0:02:47 various governments uh or the dutch east
0:02:50 dutch east india company
0:02:52 um which would private corporations
0:02:55 establishing these colonies and we have
0:02:56 no problem calling themselves colonies
0:02:58 but suddenly we have a problem
0:03:00 with calling the zionist project which
0:03:03 was established with
0:03:04 international uh banking institutions or
0:03:07 organizations that were called
0:03:08 colors colonization organizations with
0:03:11 no regard to the natives uh why should
0:03:14 that be different and i'm gonna quote
0:03:16 you something and then i'll let you kind
0:03:18 of
0:03:18 come back very briefly uh so he said
0:03:21 uh the idea of colonization of palestine
0:03:24 is moreover connected with the
0:03:25 remarkable colonizing impetus which has
0:03:28 taken hold of the entire modern world
0:03:30 and judged by outward characteristics
0:03:32 are the european migrations to foreign
0:03:34 lands their colonization and development
0:03:38 so very different so very different from
0:03:40 this feature of jewish aspirations so is
0:03:42 this very different from the the feature
0:03:44 of jewish aspirations he's saying he has
0:03:45 a question mark there exuberant energy
0:03:48 finds no appropriate outlet in europe
0:03:50 and so seek it far away where it may be
0:03:52 usefully employed for the furthering of
0:03:54 civilization in the midst of backward
0:03:57 countries and nations fruitful jewish
0:03:59 energy which is being kept under in the
0:04:02 diaspora will be gathered and
0:04:04 transplanted to palestine that it may
0:04:06 prove true to itself and to the whole of
0:04:08 civilization
0:04:10 um
0:04:11 so
0:04:11 they describe themselves as settler
0:04:13 colonists they use the the the
0:04:16 terminology and they even compared their
0:04:18 aspirations
0:04:20 to the european colonization project i
0:04:22 said are we so different to them as a
0:04:24 positive thing because because everyone
0:04:25 was doing at the time they said why
0:04:27 don't we get a piece of the action why
0:04:28 can't we do exactly the same thing so
0:04:30 that would be my main rebuttal to it to
0:04:32 it and as i said uh settler colonialism
0:04:35 being where a group of people who
0:04:38 they carry their sovereignty with them
0:04:40 and they basically take over the
0:04:42 sovereignty of the land which might have
0:04:44 other people which can involve
0:04:46 and most like usually does involve the
0:04:48 transplantation or the exiting um of
0:04:51 those people and to kind of finish up i
0:04:53 also mentioned theodore health wrote in
0:04:55 his diary on the 12th of june 1895
0:04:58 he said regarding land said when we
0:05:00 occupy the lands or in palestine we
0:05:03 shall bring forth
0:05:04 immediate benefits to the state that
0:05:06 that receives us
0:05:07 we must expropriate
0:05:09 gently the private property on these
0:05:11 states assigned to us we shall try to
0:05:14 spirit the penalties population across
0:05:16 the border by procuring employment for
0:05:18 it in transit countries while denying it
0:05:21 any employment
0:05:22 in
0:05:23 our country
0:05:24 okay so
0:05:26 um he basically said that even though he
0:05:28 didn't talk about forced expulsion but
0:05:30 he talked about a type of expropriation
0:05:33 of the property in the lands of the
0:05:35 people within the lands which are
0:05:37 appropriate which are given to them uh
0:05:39 by whichever power of course and the
0:05:42 spiriting away so putting the penis
0:05:43 population which already exists there uh
0:05:46 finding ways to get them to other places
0:05:48 move them other places
0:05:50 which he helped by the carrot you know
0:05:52 not by the stick but by the carrot which
0:05:54 is try to get employment for them in um
0:05:57 other countries and this was also uh
0:05:59 replicated by uh this this sentiment was
0:06:02 also mentioned by
0:06:03 uh many of the earliest the the late
0:06:05 designers founders who talked about um
0:06:08 finding employment for uh landless arabs
0:06:10 which were being created due to design
0:06:12 zionist colonization
0:06:13 and denying them employment back in
0:06:15 palestine so they couldn't they couldn't
0:06:16 find any employment back in palestine
0:06:18 and only invaluable employment would be
0:06:20 outside of palestine and then they can
0:06:21 leave palestine so that would be uh that
0:06:24 point so basically it's set in the
0:06:25 current criminalism transfer the
0:06:27 population although at the beginning it
0:06:29 was only envisioned by the carrot not by
0:06:30 the stick
0:06:32 they said they compared themselves to
0:06:33 other
0:06:34 colonial projects um many could set
0:06:37 their colonial projects which we would
0:06:38 always call we would have no problem
0:06:40 calling sector colonialism uh like the
0:06:42 puritans in pennsylvania setting up
0:06:43 their colony uh under british char the
0:06:45 chance that they didn't use any soldiers
0:06:47 from the crown to do so uh the dutch
0:06:49 east india company in south africa they
0:06:51 didn't use state soldiers to do so to
0:06:53 take over colonism land it was a private
0:06:56 venture by themselves but they had
0:06:57 permission from their government
0:06:59 um how is zionism who used permission
0:07:01 from whichever government controls the
0:07:03 land or how the land believes it it has
0:07:05 sovereignty of the land to
0:07:07 you know to to take that land
0:07:10 uh from its inhabitants i.e from by
0:07:13 creating a sovereignty which is not the
0:07:15 sovereignty of its inhabitants but the
0:07:16 sovereignty of those who are coming into
0:07:17 it how is that different to secular
0:07:19 colonism if it looks like a duck if it
0:07:21 quacks like a duck and the duck says
0:07:23 it's a duck
0:07:24 well then it's a duck onto
0:07:26 herzl to begin with
0:07:29 the quotes that you brought abdullah
0:07:31 were actually talking about argentina
0:07:32 and he actually if you read his diaries
0:07:34 when he talks about the promised land he
0:07:36 says the promised land is within us it's
0:07:38 it's the ability for us to create a
0:07:40 state state to escape mitzram the 9th of
0:07:42 june 1985 this is what he says in his
0:07:45 diary again the david that you've read
0:07:47 in palestine's disfavor it is
0:07:50 in palestine's disfavor
0:07:52 is its proximity to russia and europe
0:07:55 its lack of room for expansion as well
0:07:57 as its climate which we are no longer
0:07:59 accustomed to because obviously speaking
0:08:00 as a european jew from
0:08:02 a pretty cold climate in its favor is
0:08:05 the mighty legend obviously for him he's
0:08:07 not a religious person and he sees the
0:08:08 connection of the jews the land is a
0:08:11 mighty legend but yeah what he's
0:08:12 effectively saying is our our strong
0:08:15 connection to this place
0:08:16 and so
0:08:18 what we see from here is when herzl's
0:08:20 writing to himself and this is why he
0:08:22 favors argentina which is argentina
0:08:24 which is going to lead into the next
0:08:26 point but
0:08:28 when he's writing to himself he's honest
0:08:29 and he does it his concern with
0:08:31 palestine is it's close to the europeans
0:08:33 and the russians he doesn't want to be
0:08:35 in that mix he doesn't want to be in the
0:08:36 mix of the ottomans that's crazy for him
0:08:39 he wants to be in the new world where
0:08:40 he's safe where the jews won't have to
0:08:42 worry about these superpowers that will
0:08:45 oppress them like they have done
0:08:48 since the jews were exiled um 2 000
0:08:51 years ago
0:08:52 you mentioned a very famous quote
0:08:55 and what again you failed to mention was
0:08:57 he's not talking about palestine he's
0:08:59 talking about argentina and it was the
0:09:00 penniless quote and so let me let me
0:09:03 read the entire passage and then explain
0:09:06 what it says so
0:09:08 when we occupy this again this is the
0:09:10 12th of june 1895 when we occupy the
0:09:13 land we shall bring a meeting he's
0:09:15 talking about argentina here we shall
0:09:17 bring immediate benefits to the state
0:09:19 that receive state that receives us we
0:09:22 must expropriate gently the private
0:09:24 property on the estates assigned to us
0:09:27 so he's already saying this is land
0:09:29 that's been assigned to us
0:09:31 not coming in by force we shall try to
0:09:33 spirit the penniless population across
0:09:35 the border we shall try to spirit away
0:09:37 the penniless population across the
0:09:38 border by procuring employment for it in
0:09:40 the transit countries so nothing about
0:09:42 expulsion it's like we're going to help
0:09:44 them by giving them work in other
0:09:45 countries which will be better for them
0:09:46 this is herzl speaking not me oh there's
0:09:49 a sentiment of herzl while denying it
0:09:51 any employment in our own country
0:09:52 because he wants to build up a jewish
0:09:54 state where jews have autonomy which
0:09:55 they don't have in europe um
0:09:58 if we move in and so it goes on and on
0:10:00 and on but
0:10:01 effectively
0:10:02 he's not talking about palestine he's
0:10:04 talking about argentina he's talking
0:10:06 about people who don't own the land he's
0:10:08 talking about people who live on the
0:10:10 land who are penniless and he's saying
0:10:12 we can help them get employment
0:10:13 elsewhere let's go back to what you said
0:10:15 about field of herzone so further
0:10:18 herzl's diary quote was
0:10:20 uh written in the summer of 1895.
0:10:23 um at that point he actually hadn't
0:10:25 decided whether it was going to be
0:10:26 palestine or argentina
0:10:28 so he didn't reference any particular
0:10:30 country so when you said that he was
0:10:32 referring to argentina
0:10:34 that's uh that's not exactly true
0:10:36 right and
0:10:38 you know um he didn't actually mention
0:10:40 any particular he was hadn't yet decided
0:10:42 at that point whether it was going to be
0:10:44 argentina or palestine but you missed
0:10:46 the point of the entire quote which is
0:10:49 he might have
0:10:50 even if i was to concede it was
0:10:52 argentina even if i was to give you that
0:10:55 he's still
0:10:56 outlining what he intends to do to any
0:10:58 place he wants to colonize somewhere
0:11:00 right the question is where where's the
0:11:02 target
0:11:04 um zionism wouldn't be any less settler
0:11:06 colonialist
0:11:08 just because it targets argentina
0:11:10 okay so it's a moot point so you're
0:11:13 basically arguing that well you know he
0:11:15 yeah he was going to set a colon line
0:11:17 someplace but he hadn't decided it was
0:11:19 personal at that point he was like well
0:11:21 all right but that still doesn't change
0:11:23 the point that zionism is settler
0:11:26 colonism so
0:11:27 that needs to be
0:11:29 really addressed
0:11:50 if you enjoy the arguments presented in
0:11:52 the debate and want to know more and
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