Some key differences between Paul and the Gospel writers (2020-12-16) ​

0:00:01 hello and in this uh
0:00:03 episode i want to look at some of the
0:00:05 key differences
0:00:06 between the apostle paul and the gospel
0:00:10 writers uh focusing particularly on
0:00:13 salvation and the and the law
0:00:17 we we find if we look at the four
0:00:19 gospels uh
0:00:20 all written some years after jesus time
0:00:23 uh and then compare it with the teaching
0:00:25 of paul we have
0:00:26 some interesting issues shall we say
0:00:28 arise and i'm going to be
0:00:30 uh quoting uh and commenting on a book
0:00:33 by professor bye ehrman who's uh
0:00:36 an academic in new testament studies in
0:00:38 the states uh he wrote a book called
0:00:40 jesus
0:00:41 interrupted um from page 85 onwards it's
0:00:45 a rather good book it really
0:00:46 in a very simple and populist way it uh
0:00:50 gives us the the main issues uh that
0:00:52 have preoccupied
0:00:54 new testament scholars for the last
0:00:56 century or two
0:00:57 and this particular question um is of
0:01:00 absolutely central importance i would
0:01:02 think or
0:01:03 and many people think uh because we're
0:01:05 dealing with two different
0:01:07 uh gospels here we're dealing with the
0:01:09 gospel of paul
0:01:10 who preached about jesus obviously
0:01:14 to put one's faith uh one's trust
0:01:17 in jesus saving death and resurrection
0:01:20 and
0:01:21 through that saving trust in jesus death
0:01:22 and resurrection one is saved one
0:01:24 acquires salvation
0:01:26 but if one looks at the teaching of
0:01:28 jesus in the early gospels
0:01:30 one has a different message and we'll
0:01:32 come to what that might be in a second
0:01:34 with the help of
0:01:35 professor bart ehrmann now
0:01:39 one important aspect of paul's teaching
0:01:42 is the question of how a person can have
0:01:44 a right relationship
0:01:45 a right standing before god we're
0:01:47 sinners god is a holy god how can we
0:01:49 stand before a holy god
0:01:51 is it possible to be
0:01:54 justified to have justification as
0:01:56 christians call it
0:01:58 um this idea of having a right standing
0:02:00 before god and how is this acquired or
0:02:02 how is this given to us
0:02:04 and uh paul's views on justification
0:02:08 can be found mainly in his letters to
0:02:10 the galatians and to the romans
0:02:12 and he explains how this is uh happened
0:02:15 and his
0:02:16 uh most famous expression is
0:02:20 justified by faith paul says we're
0:02:22 justified by faith we're made right
0:02:25 by faith or trusting in uh
0:02:28 christ's death and resurrection and
0:02:31 importantly
0:02:31 not by observing the works of the jewish
0:02:34 law the jewish law of the 613
0:02:36 commandments given to moses
0:02:38 on mount sinai uh so that uh the jews or
0:02:41 the israelites i should say
0:02:43 uh could enter into this covenant
0:02:45 express their loyalty to god
0:02:46 through obeying his commandments and god
0:02:48 would bless them
0:02:50 if they chose to obey the commandments
0:02:52 of god which were there for their own
0:02:54 good
0:02:55 now let me see so um
0:02:59 bart er makes an interesting point about
0:03:01 paul
0:03:02 before he became a jew he says as a
0:03:05 religious jew
0:03:06 prior to believing in jesus paul no
0:03:08 doubt had ideas
0:03:10 of what the messiah would be like
0:03:13 before christianity appeared
0:03:16 there weren't any jews who believed that
0:03:19 the messiah
0:03:20 would suffer and die
0:03:23 jews who believed that the messiah would
0:03:25 suffer and die uh
0:03:27 on the contrary bottom and says whatever
0:03:29 different jews thought about the master
0:03:30 they all agreed that the messiah would
0:03:32 be a figure of grandeur and power
0:03:35 who would implement god's purposes on
0:03:37 earth in a forceful way
0:03:39 jews did not understand the passages of
0:03:41 scripture that referred to the
0:03:43 suffering of god's righteous one as a
0:03:46 reference to the messiah
0:03:48 and bartomen is thinking of isaiah 53
0:03:51 and psalm 22 neither of which
0:03:55 mentions the messiah a little detail
0:03:58 that's quite important
0:04:00 now um bottoming goes on
0:04:05 if uh but if jesus was the messiah
0:04:08 and he had to die why did he have to die
0:04:11 and this is where we start thinking with
0:04:14 paul
0:04:15 in reverse as it were starting from the
0:04:17 end which is the resurrection of jesus
0:04:19 and moving back towards jesus death and
0:04:22 then life
0:04:23 paul reasons that jesus must not have
0:04:26 died for anything wrong
0:04:28 that he did if he was the messiah
0:04:32 who unders who stood under god's special
0:04:35 favor he must not have died for his own
0:04:38 sins
0:04:40 for what then evidently for the sins of
0:04:43 others
0:04:44 like the sacrifices in the jerusalem
0:04:46 temple jesus was a sacrifice for the
0:04:48 sins
0:04:49 that other people committed
0:04:52 but why would god have jesus die for
0:04:54 others
0:04:55 evidently because a human sacrifice was
0:04:58 the only way a perfect sacrifice
0:05:00 could be made the jewish sacrificial
0:05:03 system
0:05:04 must not be adequate enough to deal with
0:05:06 sins
0:05:08 but does that mean that god has changed
0:05:10 his mind about how people are to be
0:05:12 right with him
0:05:13 didn't he call the jews to be his
0:05:15 special people and give them the law
0:05:17 so that they would be set apart from all
0:05:19 the other people as his chosen ones
0:05:22 yes reason paul he did the law and the
0:05:25 prophets
0:05:26 must be pointing towards christ
0:05:29 god's ultimate solution to the human
0:05:32 problem
0:05:33 and i'll just say here my own voice so
0:05:34 to speak the
0:05:36 uh the idea of um jesus being uh
0:05:39 the messiah being a human sacrifice of
0:05:42 course
0:05:43 is not just not found in the jewish
0:05:44 scriptures it's also condemned the idea
0:05:47 of human sacrifices condemned repeatedly
0:05:50 by god as an abomination
0:05:53 the sacrificial system in the temple
0:05:55 never
0:05:56 made uh accommodated human sacrifice on
0:05:59 the contrary that was
0:06:01 explicitly condemned and ruled out in
0:06:03 many passages
0:06:04 in the jewish bible so the idea in fact
0:06:06 that god suddenly
0:06:07 made what was an abomination a positive
0:06:10 good
0:06:11 is is extraordinary um
0:06:14 bart ehrman goes on but what is the
0:06:17 human problem
0:06:19 it appears to be that everyone not just
0:06:21 gentiles but also the jews have violated
0:06:24 god's law
0:06:25 and need a perfect sacrifice for their
0:06:27 sins
0:06:29 but that would mean that everyone jews
0:06:31 and gentiles must accept the sacrifice
0:06:33 of god's messiah in order for their sins
0:06:36 to be covered
0:06:37 over or atoned for before god
0:06:41 can't people be right with god by doing
0:06:43 what god instructed them in the law
0:06:45 evidently not if they could be
0:06:49 there would have been no reason for the
0:06:50 messiah to be crucified
0:06:53 by being crucified jesus shed his blood
0:06:56 for others
0:06:57 and brought about an atoning sacrifice
0:06:59 for sin
0:07:01 those who believe in his death and
0:07:03 resurrection
0:07:04 will be right with god justified
0:07:07 those who don't cannot be justified
0:07:10 all this means that the keeping of the
0:07:12 jewish law can have no
0:07:13 place in salvation now
0:07:16 i would say uh if one looks at patches
0:07:18 in deuteronomy
0:07:19 god where god says it's perfectly
0:07:21 possible to obey the jewish law
0:07:23 it's easy to obey the jewish law he says
0:07:26 or the commandments i'm giving you this
0:07:28 day and
0:07:30 if you obey them you will be blessed in
0:07:32 the land that god will bless you and
0:07:34 you'll be great among the nations and
0:07:36 you will
0:07:36 you will thrive and prosper and so on
0:07:39 and you'll be pleasing to god
0:07:41 so um given that reality it's hard to
0:07:44 understand what further need there would
0:07:45 be for a sacrifice of a human messiah
0:07:48 but uh
0:07:49 that's just me so uh bart ehrman
0:07:52 continues
0:07:53 the only way to be justified is by
0:07:55 having faith in the death and
0:07:56 resurrection of jesus
0:07:57 and he quotes galatians 2 15 we have
0:08:00 come to believe in christ jesus
0:08:03 so that we might be justified by faith
0:08:05 in christ
0:08:06 and not by doing the works of the law
0:08:08 because no one will be justified by the
0:08:10 works
0:08:11 of the law this is paul's teaching
0:08:14 in romans and galatians and followers of
0:08:17 jesus
0:08:18 are not to try and keep the law except
0:08:20 insofar as loving your neighbor as
0:08:22 yourself
0:08:23 and living a good ethical life is
0:08:24 something that god still expects of
0:08:26 people
0:08:27 but following the precepts and
0:08:28 commandments of the law
0:08:31 getting circumcised keeping kosher
0:08:33 observing
0:08:34 shabbat sabbath and other jewish
0:08:36 festivals
0:08:38 none of this was necessary for salvation
0:08:41 and if you thought or acted otherwise
0:08:42 you were in danger of losing your
0:08:44 salvation
0:08:45 according to galatians 5 4.
0:08:49 so the biome then goes on and wonders
0:08:53 what would have happened if paul and
0:08:54 matthew the author of the first gospel
0:08:57 had been locked up together in a room
0:08:59 and told they could not come out until
0:09:00 they had hammered out a consensus
0:09:02 statement
0:09:03 on how followers of jesus were to deal
0:09:06 with the jewish law it's quite comical
0:09:08 ideally
0:09:09 would they have ever have emerged or
0:09:11 would they still be there
0:09:13 two skeletons locked in a death grip
0:09:17 so he continues if matthew the author of
0:09:20 the gospel of matthew who wrote some 25
0:09:22 to 30 years after paul
0:09:24 ever read any of paul's letters he
0:09:26 certainly did not find them inspiring
0:09:29 let alone inspired matthew
0:09:32 had a different view of the law from
0:09:34 paul matthew
0:09:36 thinks that the followers of jesus need
0:09:38 to keep the law
0:09:40 in fact they need to keep it better than
0:09:43 most religious
0:09:43 jews the scribes and the pharisees
0:09:48 in matthew jesus is recorded as saying
0:09:51 and just remember what we just said
0:09:53 about paul and what how we are made
0:09:55 right with god and what our
0:09:57 duties before god are to have faith in
0:09:59 jesus death and resurrection
0:10:01 jesus is recorded as saying do not think
0:10:04 that i have come to abolish the law
0:10:06 or the prophets i have not come to
0:10:07 abolish but to fulfill
0:10:09 truly i tell you until heaven and earth
0:10:11 pass away not one letter not one stroke
0:10:14 of a letter
0:10:14 will pass on the law until all is
0:10:16 accomplished
0:10:18 therefore whoever breaks one of the
0:10:21 least
0:10:22 of these commandments of the law and
0:10:25 teaches others to do the same
0:10:27 will be called least in the kingdom of
0:10:29 heaven but whoever does them and teaches
0:10:32 them will be called great in the kingdom
0:10:34 of heaven
0:10:34 for i tell you unless your righteousness
0:10:38 excuse me exceeds that of the scribes
0:10:40 and the pharisees
0:10:41 you will never enter the kingdom of
0:10:44 heaven that's matthew chapter 5 verse 17
0:10:46 and following
0:10:49 paul as we've seen thought and taught
0:10:52 that
0:10:52 followers of jesus who tried to keep the
0:10:54 law were in danger of
0:10:56 losing their salvation matthew thought
0:11:00 that followers of jesus who did not keep
0:11:02 the law
0:11:03 would never attain salvation
0:11:07 theologians have over the centuries try
0:11:10 to reconcile these two views
0:11:13 and and which is perfectly
0:11:14 understandable since both of them are in
0:11:16 the new testament canon
0:11:18 but bart ehrman says anyone who reads
0:11:20 the gospel of matthew
0:11:22 and then reads the letter to the
0:11:23 galatians would never suspect
0:11:25 that there was a reason or a way to
0:11:27 reconcile these two statements
0:11:30 for matthew to be great in the kingdom
0:11:33 requires keeping the very least of the
0:11:35 commandments
0:11:38 and that obviously includes kosher
0:11:40 circumcision
0:11:41 and all the other things which uh paul
0:11:43 clearly taught were not necessary
0:11:45 uh and should not be obeyed on pain of
0:11:48 losing one's survation
0:11:51 so just getting into the kingdom
0:11:53 requires keeping them better than the
0:11:55 scribes and the pharisees it could be
0:11:57 ultra scrupulous
0:11:58 for paul getting into the kingdom which
0:12:01 is a different way of saying being
0:12:03 justified
0:12:04 is made possible only only by the death
0:12:07 and resurrection of jesus
0:12:10 so interesting and then he continues of
0:12:13 course
0:12:14 matthew also knows all about the death
0:12:16 and resurrection of jesus
0:12:17 he spends a good part of his gospel
0:12:19 narrating it and he
0:12:20 too thinks that apart from jesus death
0:12:22 there could be no salvation
0:12:25 but salvation also requires keeping
0:12:27 god's laws
0:12:30 he did give these laws after all
0:12:32 presumably he meant them the first time
0:12:34 and didn't change his mind later
0:12:40 one passage in matthew suggests in fact
0:12:43 that salvation is not just a matter of
0:12:45 belief but also of action
0:12:47 an idea completely alien to the thinking
0:12:50 of paul
0:12:53 in one of the great discourses of jesus
0:12:54 found only in matthew he describes the
0:12:57 day of judgment that will come at the
0:12:58 end of time
0:13:00 and this is where the son of man comes
0:13:02 in his glory with his angels
0:13:04 and all the people from all the nations
0:13:06 of the earth are gathered before him
0:13:08 this is matthew 25
0:13:09 he separates them into the sheep and the
0:13:11 goats so to speak
0:13:13 the sheep are on his right and they go
0:13:15 to heaven or
0:13:16 paradise and the the goats on this left
0:13:18 they go to hell fire
0:13:20 now why are the people who go to
0:13:22 paradise welcomed into the kingdom
0:13:25 jesus says because i was hungry and you
0:13:27 gave me food i was thirsty you gave me
0:13:29 to drink
0:13:29 i was a stranger and you welcomed me i
0:13:31 was naked and you clothed me
0:13:32 i was sick and you took care of me and i
0:13:35 was in prison and you visited me
0:13:38 and on the other hand the goats are sent
0:13:40 away into eternal fire
0:13:42 that is prepared for the devil and his
0:13:44 angels why
0:13:45 because they didn't do those things
0:13:51 now these are jesus final public words
0:13:54 in the gospel of matthew and how do they
0:13:56 stack up against paul
0:13:58 not so well paul believe eternal life
0:14:00 comes to those who believe in the death
0:14:02 and resurrection of jesus
0:14:03 in matthew's account of the sheep and
0:14:06 the goats salvation comes to those who
0:14:07 have never even heard of jesus
0:14:10 who treat others in a humane and caring
0:14:12 way in their arrow of deepest
0:14:14 need and this is a completely different
0:14:17 view of salvation and there's another
0:14:20 striking story in matthew a rich man
0:14:22 comes to jesus and says
0:14:23 teacher what good must i do to have
0:14:26 eternal life
0:14:27 jesus tells him if you wish to enter
0:14:29 into life
0:14:30 keep the commandments and he lists them
0:14:33 and this is matthew 19.
0:14:35 so without laboring the point we we see
0:14:38 here a fundamental difference between
0:14:40 matthew and paul on the matter of
0:14:43 obeying
0:14:44 the the jewish law and um this is
0:14:47 certainly worth
0:14:48 pondering further and what this the
0:14:50 significance of this
0:14:51 for christian muslim relations today
0:14:53 where this whole issue of salvation by
0:14:55 faith and works is very important