Cosmic Atheist Comes Closer ... (2021-07-22) ​

0:00:00 boxes that it raises i i think that's
0:00:02 potentially more plausible
0:00:04 um but my i should i should stress that
0:00:06 the agnosticism the agnostic atheism
0:00:08 that i currently
0:00:09 possess is quite unlike the one that i
0:00:12 had maybe four years ago beforehand it
0:00:14 was very much the case
0:00:16 that i essentially would have said like
0:00:18 there aren't really any good reasons to
0:00:20 think that god exists
0:00:21 or at least those reasons that have been
0:00:22 put forward i think don't work
0:00:25 now and that is to say i was sat on the
0:00:27 fence
0:00:28 um because there was just there was just
0:00:30 no breeze there was just no breeze to
0:00:31 push me onto one side
0:00:32 one side i was just sat there um now
0:00:36 i'm still sad on the fence i'm still an
0:00:38 agnostic atheist of some description
0:00:41 but now it's more like there are equally
0:00:43 uh
0:00:44 beautiful breezes pushing in opposite
0:00:45 directions right so i do
0:00:47 think that uh the contingency argument
0:00:51 for the existence of god is a strong one
0:00:53 i do think that
0:00:55 certain ontological arguments you know
0:00:56 if there are certain quarrels like the
0:00:58 one we're having now can be
0:00:59 resolved like is is a good argument is
0:01:02 at least a good attempt
0:01:02 to prove the existence of god um i think
0:01:04 that the idea of an infinite regress
0:01:06 probably does lead to unacceptable
0:01:08 paradoxes and so
0:01:10 i would say that on its own yes
0:01:13 like it's a it's a i think there's good
0:01:16 reason to think that there is a
0:01:17 necessary unmoved mover
0:01:18 however now the agnosticism is that
0:01:20 that's the breeze pushing in one
0:01:21 direction
0:01:22 uh but there's also now i've i've been
0:01:25 more
0:01:26 um uh i've i've thought a lot more and a
0:01:30 lot more deeply about the breezes that
0:01:31 would go in the opposite direction
0:01:33 involving the problem of evil or divine
0:01:34 hiddenness or animal suffering in
0:01:35 particular and these kinds of things
0:01:37 the potential paradox is involved in the
0:01:39 necessary being arguments about modal
0:01:41 fatalism for instance that we were just
0:01:42 talking about
0:01:43 that now pushed me in the other
0:01:44 direction so on its own yeah i do i do
0:01:47 i do find more plausible on a surface
0:01:49 level
0:01:50 um the idea of a necessary unmoved mover
0:01:53 than the idea of an infinite regress of
0:01:55 causes
0:01:56 if you asked about it in isolation
0:01:59 as you guys saw there cosmic has come to
0:02:02 a good realization i believe
0:02:03 which shows criticality possibly
0:02:06 sincerity shows open-mindedness on his
0:02:08 behalf
0:02:09 that uh you know there are good reasons
0:02:12 to believe in things like the
0:02:12 contingency argument which as
0:02:14 many of you know i've written a book
0:02:15 about i'm doing my phd about
0:02:17 because i personally believe it's it's
0:02:20 something which is really it's
0:02:21 inescapable the conclusion of it is
0:02:22 inescapable almost it's irrefutable i
0:02:24 believe and it's been around
0:02:26 uh forms of it have been around for for
0:02:28 thousands of years it's been around
0:02:29 since the hellenistic period
0:02:31 and then it's been kind of revamped by
0:02:33 avicenna
0:02:34 and then it was uh taken again by thomas
0:02:36 aquinas and maimonides and musabi
0:02:39 and it was taken again by leibniz and
0:02:41 different forms has been
0:02:42 elaborated upon and uh spoken about by
0:02:45 different thinkers and
0:02:46 in my estimation it's it's the least
0:02:48 refuted argument for god's existence yes
0:02:50 there are other arguments
0:02:51 that have been used and these are kalam
0:02:54 cosmological arguments
0:02:55 and different types of calam
0:02:56 cosmological arguments of course i've
0:02:58 written a book called
0:02:59 cosmological arguments if you guys are
0:03:00 interested and of course
0:03:02 in this in the debate i had of course
0:03:04 mick i brought the contingency argument
0:03:06 up now unfortunately you know
0:03:09 we we couldn't really get anything from
0:03:11 him as to
0:03:12 by way of a refutation of the argument
0:03:14 now we know he actually sees it as
0:03:15 actually quite powerful argument
0:03:17 which is good i'm happy that he's come
0:03:19 to this conclusion it shows it shows
0:03:20 maturity on his behalf educational
0:03:22 maturity i really hope he doesn't change
0:03:24 his mind on this and
0:03:25 because that will show instability in uh
0:03:28 in process and
0:03:29 cognitive processes that one day you
0:03:31 believe in this and that you know and
0:03:32 that they believe in that
0:03:33 i really hope that he sticks to his guns
0:03:35 on this and he doesn't change his mind
0:03:37 on his at least
0:03:38 his classification of design um and also
0:03:41 i would say well done
0:03:42 well done to him good man that you've
0:03:43 done that the things that he's actually
0:03:45 mentioned
0:03:46 um in terms of things that are pushing
0:03:48 him in the other direction
0:03:50 on his analogy or his uh language some
0:03:53 the breeze that pushes the other way
0:03:55 things like divine heightenedness or our
0:03:57 hiddenness
0:03:58 and um you know the problem of evil
0:04:01 obviously it's been spoken about at
0:04:02 length
0:04:03 we have um videos on it you can put my
0:04:05 name on youtube and put
0:04:06 for example the problem of evil i've
0:04:07 spoken about it at length and what is
0:04:09 evil does it even exist on
0:04:10 the atheistic paradigm does it even
0:04:12 exist from the materialistic paradigm
0:04:14 um you know and so on
0:04:18 what does it mean to to say well does
0:04:21 evil exist does that disprove
0:04:22 in god we've had these conversations of
0:04:24 course these are secondary
0:04:26 considerations in my opinion these are
0:04:27 secondary considerations once you've
0:04:29 established
0:04:30 the reality of a necessary existence
0:04:31 this is more powerful than anything else
0:04:33 and the fact that he's been able to do
0:04:35 this is really really good and he's one
0:04:37 step closer to the ultimate truth and i
0:04:39 really encourage him to do that
0:04:41 to move in that direction maybe what he
0:04:43 said would not have been well received
0:04:45 uh with with his people and this the
0:04:47 people supporters and you know
0:04:49 subscribers and so on but i i really
0:04:52 acknowledge that this is a brave step
0:04:53 forward and i hope we continue taking
0:04:54 these brave step forwards well done to
0:04:56 him
0:04:56 um the other thing divine hiddenness or
0:04:59 the fact that god is hidden from the
0:05:00 people
0:05:01 why is he so hidden this is something
0:05:03 obviously we as muslims don't believe
0:05:05 and we believe that
0:05:08 that every human being is born on the
0:05:10 predisposition and believing in god
0:05:12 and this is something i've mentioned
0:05:13 this i think even the debate i mentioned
0:05:14 but i want to remind everyone of it
0:05:16 it's the uh the or the predisposition is
0:05:18 something which has good
0:05:19 evidence by way of anthropological
0:05:22 evidence and sociological evidence so
0:05:24 for example justin barrett
0:05:25 who in 2011 part of the oxford
0:05:28 anthropological society
0:05:30 uh spoke about us having an innate
0:05:32 receptivity to believing in god and
0:05:34 you know he done these the study that
0:05:35 children before socialization
0:05:37 that there's something which is kind of
0:05:39 um corresponds across culture
0:05:42 cross-culturally uh among children which
0:05:44 is that children do have this
0:05:45 receptivity
0:05:46 in his words uh in a a receptivity to
0:05:49 believing in a higher being
0:05:50 and i say that this is this is evidence
0:05:52 to the contrary of
0:05:54 um which can be juxtaposed with the idea
0:05:58 of uh
0:06:04 hide-and-seek
0:06:06 that's one thing aside i wanted to
0:06:07 continue thinking about these things and
0:06:09 obviously animal rights or something
0:06:10 which we as muslims
0:06:12 we very much we very much respect
0:06:15 there's a hadith of a woman who's a
0:06:17 prostitute okay
0:06:18 that she gave a dog water and according
0:06:21 to that she was forgiven for her sins
0:06:23 for doing that
0:06:23 just because she gave a dog water even
0:06:25 though she's defiled herself
0:06:27 in the most disgusting way possible by
0:06:30 living
0:06:31 not the most disgusting way possible
0:06:33 doing that would be to be a polytheist
0:06:35 but in a very damning way but that she
0:06:38 gave that dog
0:06:39 water would put her in a among the
0:06:42 people that are forgiven as a dog
0:06:44 and we believe that the day of judgment
0:06:45 is a forum where in which all of these
0:06:48 kinds of
0:06:48 injustices that have been done to
0:06:50 animals will be kind of um
0:06:52 adjusted and in fact that is the day of
0:06:54 recompense and we have a beautiful
0:06:55 hadith
0:06:56 um that talks about the two goats one of
0:06:58 them horned goat and the other one is
0:06:59 not horned
0:07:00 and the one that attacked one horned
0:07:02 goat the attack the other goat without
0:07:04 horns
0:07:05 will now get its retribution so
0:07:06 everything will be
0:07:08 fully uh and yeah it's true like what we
0:07:10 see today and obviously we don't come to
0:07:12 vegan conclusions
0:07:13 but we see today by way of uh animal
0:07:16 suffering so like
0:07:17 we we think that that is against the sun
0:07:19 against islam you know the
0:07:20 cutting the beaks off the chicken and
0:07:22 suffocating them and so on
0:07:23 this is if the prophet was around he
0:07:25 would surely have
0:07:26 uh have have negated and
0:07:30 refuted that kind of thing uh especially
0:07:33 when we have hadith to that effect for
0:07:34 example the woman who's
0:07:36 who um was torturing her cat okay and
0:07:40 she went to hell
0:07:40 for that or she we know that she's gonna
0:07:42 go to hell for that because she
0:07:44 what kind of person does it take to
0:07:45 really torture another innocent creature
0:07:47 like a cat
0:07:48 so yeah animal rights are important uh
0:07:50 divine hiddenness if you think of it in
0:07:52 you know in contra in contra distinction
0:07:55 with the fetal you'll realize
0:07:57 that the fethra of the predisposition is
0:07:59 actually something which is super
0:08:00 rational and um
0:08:02 precedes any rational argumentation
0:08:03 which is why i was thinking about this
0:08:05 this verse in the quran which is a
0:08:08 really beautiful verse
0:08:09 and it came about in and i thought about
0:08:11 pondering over it it was a
0:08:13 verse that said uh
0:08:23 you know if you're in any doubt as to
0:08:26 the religion of islam
0:08:27 my religion the prophet muhammad's
0:08:29 religion not just his religion but the
0:08:30 religion of moses and abraham and jesus
0:08:32 and those as well then i don't worship
0:08:35 other gods that you that are worshiped
0:08:39 aside from god but i worship god who
0:08:42 who brings us like who who takes away
0:08:44 our lives and takes away our souls and
0:08:46 takes away our consciousness
0:08:49 this is such a powerful thing because
0:08:51 really if you look at the six
0:08:52 major world religions in the world today
0:08:56 you'll find that islam is the only one
0:08:57 with the conception of god which is also
0:08:59 not only only natural but rational as
0:09:01 well
0:09:02 this is the reality like we don't
0:09:04 believe in a man god we don't believe
0:09:06 it's conceivable or intelligible
0:09:08 or acceptable to believe that there's
0:09:09 any part any human being is
0:09:11 is is god because it necessitates
0:09:14 contradictions in terms we don't believe
0:09:16 in an animal god we don't believe in a
0:09:18 man god
0:09:19 you see what i mean and so you've
0:09:21 already stricken off
0:09:22 christianity we've already stricken off
0:09:23 hinduism a pantheistic notion of it
0:09:25 we've already stricken off fantastic
0:09:27 notions of sikhism
0:09:28 uh so what are we left with we're left
0:09:31 with judaism
0:09:32 right which is a very um exclusivist
0:09:34 faith what we left with right
0:09:37 not much buddhism which is not even a
0:09:39 faith really in that sense
0:09:41 uh so what we say therefore is keep
0:09:44 looking
0:09:44 not just to him but to his followers as
0:09:46 well keep looking keep being
0:09:48 critical and you'll come to this
0:09:50 conclusion but just one more thing be
0:09:52 spiritual as well if there is a
0:09:53 necessary existence
0:09:55 then think of one thing what
0:09:57 relationship are we meant to have with
0:09:58 this necessary existence
0:10:01 what relationship are we meant to have
0:10:02 and the answer we give is as follows
0:10:04 the relationship we are meant to have
0:10:05 with the necessary existence is the
0:10:07 relationship of submission
0:10:08 everything else in creation is
0:10:10 submitting to the will of the necessary
0:10:12 existence
0:10:13 we must do the same if we do the same we
0:10:16 will be at one with nature in the
0:10:18 sense of the word which is acceptable uh
0:10:21 you know which is which makes sense
0:10:23 because we'll be doing everything we'll
0:10:24 be doing things which everything else in
0:10:26 creation is doing which is submitting to
0:10:28 the laws of the law maker
0:10:30 and so think think think and i would ask
0:10:32 i would ask everyone really if
0:10:34 just make supplication because we
0:10:37 believe as muslims
0:10:38 the quran says
0:10:44 and if my slaves doesn't say the muslims
0:10:48 if my slaves ask about me then i am near
0:10:51 and i answer the caller of the call when
0:10:53 he calls so call
0:10:55 on to god and ask him to guide you
0:10:56 because believe me
0:10:58 believe you me if you do it you will be
0:11:00 successful