Does the Qur'an get the Trinity wrong? (2021-08-01) #

0:00:01 does the quran get the christian
0:00:03 doctrine of the trinity
0:00:04 wrong this is an accusation that's often
0:00:06 made by christians and
0:00:08 others when they read the quran and say
0:00:10 no no this is not what christian
0:00:11 theology teaches
0:00:13 about god and to help answer this
0:00:16 question i want to
0:00:17 quote from a brief passage from this
0:00:20 book the islamic jesus by mustafa akhil
0:00:23 how the king of the jews became a
0:00:25 prophet of the muslims
0:00:27 and he addresses this question on page
0:00:30 107
0:00:31 in a section entitled the problem with
0:00:34 the trinity
0:00:35 and he writes if there is one single
0:00:38 concept in christian theology
0:00:40 that will never be accepted by muslims
0:00:43 it is the doctrine
0:00:44 of the trinity that god consists of the
0:00:47 father
0:00:48 the son and the holy spirit to islam
0:00:51 that is a very unabrahamic idea
0:00:54 that violates the absolute oneness of
0:00:57 god
0:00:59 hence the quran explicitly condemns the
0:01:02 trinity
0:01:02 in two explicit passages the first of
0:01:05 them
0:01:06 is a call to christians
0:01:09 people of the book do not go to excess
0:01:12 in your religion say nothing but the
0:01:15 truth about god
0:01:16 the messiah jesus son of mary was only
0:01:19 the messenger of god
0:01:21 and his word which he cast into mary
0:01:24 and a spirit from him so have faith in
0:01:27 god and his messengers do not say
0:01:31 three it is better that you stop
0:01:34 god is only one god he is too
0:01:38 glorious to have a son everything in the
0:01:41 heavens
0:01:42 and in the earth belongs to him god
0:01:45 suffices
0:01:46 as a guardian end quote
0:01:50 this passage leaves little doubt that
0:01:52 calling god
0:01:53 three and defining jesus as son of god
0:01:56 is antithetical to islam
0:01:59 even if we recall that sun in the arabic
0:02:03 context
0:02:03 meant physical sun and that is not what
0:02:06 christianity
0:02:07 implies for jesus the deification of the
0:02:10 son that is making him into god
0:02:13 which would make god three is clearly
0:02:15 rejected
0:02:18 the second chronic passage addressing
0:02:20 the trinity
0:02:21 has raised some questions though
0:02:24 for it describes the trinity that it
0:02:26 condemns
0:02:27 which seems to be an unusual formulation
0:02:30 of the doctrine
0:02:32 the quran reads those who say that god
0:02:36 is the third of three are unbelievers
0:02:39 there is no god but one god if they do
0:02:43 not stop
0:02:43 saying what they say a painful
0:02:46 punishment
0:02:46 will afflict those among them who are
0:02:49 unbelievers
0:02:51 end quote the unusualness here
0:02:54 is in the phrase god is the third of
0:02:56 three
0:02:58 although this may sound like the
0:02:59 doctrine of the trinity at first sight
0:03:01 it is not exactly applicable a
0:03:04 mainstream christian would not claim
0:03:06 god is the third of three but rather he
0:03:09 will claim that
0:03:10 there is one god with three expressions
0:03:14 or in fact three persons that is why it
0:03:17 has been long suggested
0:03:19 that what the quran condemns here is not
0:03:21 the trinity as we know it
0:03:22 but a deviant version of it a kind of
0:03:25 tritheism
0:03:26 or a belief in three separate gods
0:03:30 not uh that mainstream christians would
0:03:32 also
0:03:33 reject that may be a possible
0:03:36 interpretation of this verse
0:03:39 yet it is also possible to to read the
0:03:42 god
0:03:42 is the third of three phrase as a quote
0:03:46 intentional simplification to expose the
0:03:49 weakness of the trinity
0:03:51 when analyzed from a strictly
0:03:53 monotheistic perspective
0:03:55 of the quran now that last sentence is
0:03:58 actually a quote it's in quotation
0:04:00 marks uh from the encyclopedia of the
0:04:02 crown
0:04:03 an article by david thomas who had the
0:04:05 privilege of
0:04:06 interviewing on blogging theology a
0:04:08 month or two again professor
0:04:09 birmingham university and a specialist
0:04:11 in christian muslim
0:04:12 understanding and that's in his article
0:04:16 on the trinity trinity page 369 so
0:04:19 he argues and he's not always a
0:04:21 christian uh that
0:04:23 this phrase perhaps is a intentional
0:04:26 simplification to expose the weakness of
0:04:29 the trinity when analyzed
0:04:30 from the strictly monotheistic
0:04:32 perspective of the quran
0:04:35 so it's a polemical um criticism if you
0:04:38 like rather than
0:04:39 an academic description that would have
0:04:41 satisfied thomas aquinas for example
0:04:44 just to continue this author that is why
0:04:48 while some authors have argued that the
0:04:50 quran can be reconciled with the trinity
0:04:53 once both are properly understood
0:04:55 muslims have almost
0:04:56 universally disagreed with that notion
0:05:00 thinking that there is no way that the
0:05:02 idea of a triune god
0:05:04 trinity can be compatible with muslim
0:05:07 scripture
0:05:08 which emphatically states he is god
0:05:11 absolute oneness this has in fact been
0:05:15 established as the core
0:05:17 theological principle in islam tauhid
0:05:21 meaning attributing oneness
0:05:24 in contrast muslims point out christians
0:05:27 believe
0:05:28 in the opposite principle tasless
0:05:31 meaning attributing attributing
0:05:34 triuneness
0:05:35 attributing trioness of course islam
0:05:39 is not alone in its rejection of the
0:05:41 doctrine of the trinity
0:05:42 judaism two has the exact same position
0:05:46 on the unity of
0:05:47 god so orthodox jews and muslims are
0:05:50 completely in agreement have identical
0:05:53 conceptions of god
0:05:54 and of course jesus was a jew his
0:05:56 disciples were jewish moses was a jew
0:05:59 so they share with islam the same
0:06:01 conception
0:06:02 of the absolute oneness of god and
0:06:04 indeed even the early gospels
0:06:06 jesus asked what the greatest
0:06:07 commandment is and he replied according
0:06:09 to mark
0:06:10 hear o israel the lord our god is one
0:06:14 lord that's the shema which is repeated
0:06:16 every day by
0:06:17 pious jews so just to
0:06:20 uh continue uh no wonder that
0:06:23 jewish scholars especially in the middle
0:06:25 ages
0:06:26 engaged in many polemics with their
0:06:28 christian counterparts
0:06:30 refuting both the doctrine of the
0:06:32 trinity and also the
0:06:34 prefigurations christians found for it
0:06:37 in the old testament
0:06:38 often with stretches of the imagination
0:06:42 as early as the third century a.d rabbi
0:06:45 simlay plans that right a talmudic sage
0:06:48 in other words he's one of those
0:06:50 writers on the talmud the
0:06:53 the collection of jewish writings had to
0:06:55 explain
0:06:56 to christians that the hebrew words el
0:07:00 and elohim and yahweh used for god
0:07:04 do not hint at any trinity
0:07:08 but rather connote one and the same
0:07:10 person
0:07:11 as one would say king or emperor or
0:07:14 augustus that's the actual example that
0:07:16 was used
0:07:19 naturally jewish christians also
0:07:21 rejected the doctrine of the trinity as
0:07:23 well now the jewish christians were the
0:07:25 earliest
0:07:26 christians um some of whom uh believed
0:07:30 in the virgin birth some
0:07:31 didn't but none of them believed jesus
0:07:33 was god they thought he was the messiah
0:07:35 great prophet
0:07:36 of god and they became this is me
0:07:38 speaking now not the book
0:07:40 uh they came to be called the ebionites
0:07:42 in the second century and were
0:07:44 rejected by the emerging catholic church
0:07:47 as heretics so the original followers of
0:07:50 jesus were seen as heretics by the
0:07:51 church ultimately
0:07:53 as it came into being in the second and
0:07:55 third centuries
0:07:57 although their documents the jewish
0:07:59 christian documents show that they call
0:08:01 jesus
0:08:02 son of god they apparently understood
0:08:04 this term
0:08:05 in the hebrew sense which did not imply
0:08:09 any divinity for jesus of course in the
0:08:12 hebrew scriptures
0:08:13 many people are called sons of god david
0:08:16 is called son of god in the psalms
0:08:18 and so on a passage in the
0:08:20 pseudo-clementine
0:08:22 homilies this is a jewish christian work
0:08:24 gives a remarkable glimpse of this view
0:08:27 in an imaginary dialogue between peter
0:08:30 the apostle
0:08:31 with whom the author identifies and
0:08:33 simon who is presented as having
0:08:35 erroneous views about christ
0:08:39 peter says our lord neither asserted
0:08:42 there were gods except the creator of
0:08:45 all
0:08:46 nor did he proclaim himself to be god
0:08:49 in response simon asked he's the the bad
0:08:52 guy i guess
0:08:53 does it not seem to you then that he who
0:08:55 comes from god
0:08:57 is god and peter replies
0:09:00 tell us how this is possible for we
0:09:03 cannot affirm this
0:09:04 because we did not hear it from him end
0:09:08 quote
0:09:09 the passage also has the notable title
0:09:11 christ
0:09:12 not god but son of god
0:09:16 the evolution from this more modest
0:09:18 christology to the doctrine of the
0:09:20 trinity had two
0:09:21 major stages historically first christ
0:09:24 was defined
0:09:25 as divine then a triune godhead was
0:09:30 formalized
0:09:31 involving god the father the scot the
0:09:34 son
0:09:34 and god the holy spirit the formula
0:09:38 was first schematicized or schematized
0:09:42 by the church father tattalian at the
0:09:45 beginning of the third
0:09:46 century or some 170 years after the
0:09:49 passing of jesus
0:09:51 but it did not go unchallenged within
0:09:54 the gentile christian world itself
0:09:56 there emerged various heresies in the
0:09:59 second
0:10:00 third and fourth century all of which
0:10:02 denied the divinity
0:10:04 of christ they insisted
0:10:07 that jesus was subordinate quote unquote
0:10:10 to god
0:10:11 or that he was adopted by him at the
0:10:13 time of his baptism
0:10:15 or resurrection known
0:10:18 under names uh such as anomianism
0:10:21 dynamic montanism percilianism
0:10:24 these currents had slight differences
0:10:27 but they
0:10:28 all rejected the trinity so these are
0:10:30 gentile christian movements
0:10:32 in addition to the original jewish
0:10:33 christian movement and they all rejected
0:10:35 the idea
0:10:36 of the divinity of christ and they were
0:10:38 in opposition to
0:10:39 the emerging catholic understanding uh
0:10:42 of the creeds and the councils nicaea
0:10:44 khalsa
0:10:45 ephesus etc the most influential of
0:10:49 these heresies is gentile heresies was
0:10:51 aryanism named after aries
0:10:54 who died in 336 a.d
0:10:58 now he was a priest in alexandria that's
0:11:00 in egypt
0:11:01 who insisted that christ was created
0:11:04 that quote there was a time when he was
0:11:08 not now this is
0:11:09 uh the key slogan of aries there was a
0:11:13 time when he
0:11:14 was not jesus so he didn't always exist
0:11:16 so unlike god
0:11:17 he was a creative being who came into
0:11:20 existence
0:11:22 christ was therefore son of god not
0:11:24 divine by
0:11:25 nature but only by grace and adoption
0:11:29 this was a theology not too far from
0:11:32 jewish christianity
0:11:34 and no wonder the aryans were accused of
0:11:36 being judaizers
0:11:37 judaizers in other words making
0:11:39 christianity jewish
0:11:42 as a response to aryanism orthodoxy that
0:11:45 is the
0:11:46 the bearers of catholic right belief now
0:11:49 under the rulership of the emperor
0:11:52 constantine
0:11:53 was established at the council of nicaea
0:11:56 in
0:11:57 ad325 and at nicaea as we know
0:12:00 it was decreed that jesus obviously
0:12:02 majority vote by the way
0:12:03 he actually voted on this and the
0:12:05 majority voted for it
0:12:06 and those that disagreed only a handful
0:12:09 were sent into exile
0:12:10 people knew in advance if they didn't go
0:12:12 along with the the emperor
0:12:15 who wanted this creed passed that they
0:12:17 would be punished
0:12:18 so it's quite an incentive to vote the
0:12:20 right way of course
0:12:22 so uh at nicaea it was decreed that
0:12:24 jesus is
0:12:25 begotten not made whatever that means
0:12:29 and of one substance with the father
0:12:32 the greek word is homorucion by the way
0:12:35 means one being or one substance
0:12:37 a doctrine to which all catholics and
0:12:40 most protestants still adhere
0:12:41 so this is still the official teaching
0:12:43 of most christians
0:12:45 in the world today the full doctrine of
0:12:48 the trinity was established only half a
0:12:50 century later in 381
0:12:52 at the council of constantinople
0:12:56 yet the aryan tendency never fully died
0:12:59 out
0:13:01 and as the archetypal heresy it would
0:13:04 rather
0:13:04 come back again and again
0:13:08 and that's the end of the quote from
0:13:10 this book
0:13:11 so there's a lot going on in the quran i
0:13:13 think it's much more sophisticated
0:13:15 uh in its polemics of christianity than
0:13:18 its detractors think uh there is and
0:13:22 this is recognized by
0:13:24 uh even western scholars today of the
0:13:26 quran they recognize
0:13:28 the subtlety and the nuance that's going
0:13:30 on with the quran
0:13:31 and that uh it's uh polemically engaging
0:13:34 the christian doctrine
0:13:35 the quran is not a it might be an
0:13:37 encyclopedia christian doctrine
0:13:39 it is refuting and exposing the weakness
0:13:42 of the doctrine
0:13:43 in in a pretty unique way um
0:13:46 so i hope that was of interest i found
0:13:48 this fascinating there's
0:13:50 there's lots more material actually in
0:13:52 this uh very good book and i do
0:13:54 recommend you uh read it and i might
0:13:56 make some more
0:13:57 uh short videos on other aspects of
0:14:00 um islamic christology in other words
0:14:03 what muslims think about christia
0:14:04 jesus and vis-a-vis the bible and
0:14:07 christianity
0:14:08 until next time