Sapience Institute Live - With Subboor Ahmad and Mohammed Hijab (2021-01-31) #

0:00:03 assalamualaikum
0:00:04 welcome to sapien sapience
0:00:08 institute live we are doing our first
0:00:12 live session
0:00:13 in which we are going to be talking to
0:00:15 you our beloved
0:00:17 viewers about what it
0:00:20 is that you think is most important
0:00:22 philosophically
0:00:23 theologically for the art today to
0:00:26 actually
0:00:27 challenge and also going over some of
0:00:29 the
0:00:30 sapience sapience thoughts
0:00:33 series and some of the videos that have
0:00:35 been produced and any questions and
0:00:37 answers
0:00:38 that any questions that may actually
0:00:40 arise
0:00:41 now um i have with me uh brother
0:00:44 muhammad hijab
0:00:46 mashaallah who has been very busy
0:00:49 very busy developing content
0:00:53 which is you know very difficult to
0:00:57 actually get
0:00:58 good credible solid referenced answers
0:01:01 for
0:01:02 and it takes obviously a lot of time to
0:01:04 actually develop these
0:01:05 such as um
0:01:08 you know the the the standard uh
0:01:12 shooting uh shooting stars sort of
0:01:14 contention
0:01:16 uh the recent one you did about the
0:01:17 shape of the earth and these types of
0:01:19 things so before we get into it
0:01:21 um we're actually having a few people
0:01:23 joining us now which is martial
0:01:25 brilliant some some of the usual faces
0:01:28 as well
0:01:29 so the first thing i want to ask you
0:01:30 hijab is that how much
0:01:33 time does it take to actually produce
0:01:35 one of these videos because obviously
0:01:36 they're not
0:01:37 produced like every day it takes a bit
0:01:39 of time and
0:01:40 what sort of process do you go through
0:01:42 to actually develop this type of content
0:01:45 well you know recipients thoughts the
0:01:47 idea what what i'm trying to do with it
0:01:49 because obviously it's more than just me
0:01:51 it's
0:01:52 you're involved and hussein's involved
0:01:54 um
0:01:55 professor othman aldiva's involved many
0:01:58 and obviously hamster sources
0:01:59 so we're all kind of involved in this
0:02:00 project and what
0:02:03 my end of it is what i'm dealing with
0:02:05 personally is
0:02:07 are the contentions so we're dealing
0:02:09 with we're starting with
0:02:11 uh we're trying to have a portfolio or a
0:02:13 database
0:02:15 of contentions answered so we're
0:02:17 starting with
0:02:18 the supposed or so-called scientific
0:02:22 error narrative
0:02:23 yeah and uh we filmed practically almost
0:02:26 all of the major contentions that we've
0:02:27 seen online
0:02:29 some of them don't need to be answered
0:02:30 because quite frankly
0:02:32 not many people are asking those
0:02:33 questions and
0:02:36 there's almost nothing there like in
0:02:37 terms of contention but with the main
0:02:39 questions
0:02:41 and we're starting with that and that
0:02:44 gives us an opportunity to talk about
0:02:45 the approach as well like the exegetical
0:02:47 approach
0:02:48 principles to lay down some principles
0:02:49 how people can
0:02:51 uh safeguard themselves from should we
0:02:53 have from doubts and also
0:02:54 how to uh empowers people to be able to
0:02:57 answer questions
0:02:58 yeah you know to their colleagues
0:03:00 co-workers uh
0:03:02 family members or friends or whatever it
0:03:04 may be
0:03:05 so we're going to move on to different
0:03:06 kinds of contention uh after we've done
0:03:08 the scientific era stuff
0:03:10 uh supposed contradictions historical
0:03:13 issues and so on
0:03:14 and once all the con the major
0:03:15 contentions are done
0:03:17 uh even the moral stuff like you know
0:03:19 women's rights and uh
0:03:21 also questions about the hadood and all
0:03:24 of that kind of thing
0:03:26 once all of that is done then we can
0:03:29 move on to well from my side of it
0:03:31 anyway uh start presenting
0:03:33 positive arguments now yeah but i think
0:03:35 if we
0:03:36 if we have a database of contentions
0:03:39 which are all
0:03:40 kind of answered yep transcribed put
0:03:43 online
0:03:44 translated as well translated um
0:03:47 and even put into book form so we will
0:03:50 have
0:03:50 all of the misconceptions the idea is to
0:03:52 get all the misconceptions
0:03:55 of islam all of them
0:03:58 answered and for people to have a
0:04:01 central
0:04:02 database for that um whether it's
0:04:05 paper-based or
0:04:07 text based on the internet or
0:04:09 videographic
0:04:10 whatever it is and so people can be
0:04:13 really comfortable
0:04:14 you know you know confident and being
0:04:16 able to
0:04:17 answer them you know the the most
0:04:19 commonly asked questions about islam
0:04:21 from all perspectives
0:04:23 yeah and then after that obviously if we
0:04:24 have we'll do the same thing with
0:04:26 the positive arguments then people will
0:04:29 know
0:04:30 how to answer questions that are
0:04:31 challenging about islam and how to make
0:04:33 a case for islam
0:04:34 yeah that's the idea and it sounds like
0:04:37 um it sounds like something which
0:04:41 quite obviously is needed but just
0:04:43 hasn't been done in the past which is
0:04:46 i guess like an encyclopedia uh review
0:04:49 of refuting these sort of contemporary
0:04:51 doubts
0:04:52 however what i would say um so just
0:04:54 before we get into
0:04:56 the sort of uh videos that you've made
0:04:59 say an answer about
0:05:02 an issue like the shooting stars or a
0:05:05 particular science thing
0:05:06 how is the answers that have been
0:05:08 developed by sapience institute
0:05:10 different
0:05:11 to what's already out there because you
0:05:13 will find
0:05:14 stuff scattered all over the internet
0:05:17 but what's the process
0:05:18 what's the reasoning and what's the
0:05:20 point of reinventing the wheel from one
0:05:22 perspective someone may say well there's
0:05:24 already good stuff out there so what are
0:05:25 we doing
0:05:26 we don't think there is a really good
0:05:28 stuff out there i think this is the
0:05:29 problem
0:05:30 the good stuff is in different languages
0:05:33 um
0:05:33 not everyone had in the past that were
0:05:36 involved in apologetics
0:05:38 uh if you want to call it that or
0:05:40 answering the issue will hurt
0:05:42 now everyone had access to both
0:05:45 strong access to both the arabic
0:05:47 language and the english language and
0:05:48 both
0:05:49 the academic access to both of those
0:05:52 languages
0:05:53 i don't think many people in the past
0:05:55 have had it with with the focus that we
0:05:57 have
0:05:57 yeah in the last 20 or 30 years and and
0:06:00 if they did have that access
0:06:02 they didn't direct it into a
0:06:04 concentrated effort
0:06:06 though the like of which where i think
0:06:08 we're doing and that's the first thing
0:06:10 the second thing is
0:06:11 the method of those individuals even if
0:06:13 they had that access
0:06:14 was we would call it flawed to some
0:06:17 extent for example
0:06:18 scientific miracles narrative yeah was
0:06:20 problematic
0:06:21 on many different uh fronts like for
0:06:24 example
0:06:25 uh there was cherry picking going on
0:06:27 yeah you know
0:06:29 sometimes they would present facts as
0:06:30 theories and theories as facts
0:06:32 they would superimpose meaning into the
0:06:34 quran or i see jesus
0:06:36 and obviously there's other issues as
0:06:38 well for example that
0:06:40 i mean the assumption even the
0:06:42 assumption is problematic to some extent
0:06:43 with the scientific miracles narrative
0:06:44 because the assumption sometimes is that
0:06:46 now we know a verse what the meaning of
0:06:47 it was
0:06:48 and before we didn't know what the
0:06:49 meaning of it is
0:06:52 uh so the big bang for example
0:06:57 you know chapter 21 verse 30 they say
0:06:59 this is uh
0:07:00 talking about the big bang and i've just
0:07:02 recorded a video on this
0:07:04 about to what extent we can make
0:07:07 connections like that
0:07:08 yeah but to impose definitely this
0:07:10 talking about the big bang
0:07:12 this is problematic kind of reasoning
0:07:14 and because people had the method flawed
0:07:16 one way or another and another i think
0:07:19 academically it wasn't
0:07:20 robust and it wasn't sophisticated yeah
0:07:22 you had two groups of people i think for
0:07:24 the last 20 or 30 years
0:07:26 online uh and even in written works that
0:07:29 have been trying to operate for example
0:07:30 on the scientific miracles thing yeah
0:07:32 one group is individuals who are
0:07:35 promoting the scientific miracles
0:07:36 narrative and the other group for
0:07:38 example were the
0:07:39 groups that were trying to promote the
0:07:40 scientific characteristics yeah
0:07:42 and both of those were employing very
0:07:45 similar tactics quite frankly
0:07:47 cherry picking disregarding other
0:07:49 opinions
0:07:50 um insisting that one opinion is more
0:07:52 valid than the other
0:07:53 not allowing ambiguous verses to remain
0:07:56 ambiguous
0:07:57 um and so on and so forth so there was
0:07:59 issues there so there was methodological
0:08:01 issues that that existed
0:08:02 uh in the last 20 or 30 years which are
0:08:04 problematic and then you had language
0:08:06 access which was which was limited
0:08:08 not just the language access but
0:08:10 academic language access to both of the
0:08:12 things and then you had another issue
0:08:16 which is
0:08:17 sapience is really i believe a place
0:08:20 where you have real academics bona fide
0:08:22 academics
0:08:23 that have studied for example philosophy
0:08:25 moral philosophy philosophy of religion
0:08:26 history
0:08:27 whatever it may be you know and we've
0:08:30 never had people
0:08:31 of that level you know on different
0:08:34 specialisms all congregate in one place
0:08:37 sharing knowledge with one another and
0:08:38 then giving that knowledge out to people
0:08:41 in the dow in the past we didn't have
0:08:42 people of that level
0:08:44 on these matters because from our data
0:08:47 that we have the the thing actually
0:08:50 uh that threatens the emanuel people the
0:08:52 most it's not these scientific miracles
0:08:54 or the supposed contradictions but it's
0:08:56 actually morality okay so just before
0:08:58 you get into that yeah
0:08:59 um and this is where i think things are
0:09:01 very important
0:09:02 with the way that uh we work within
0:09:04 sapiens
0:09:05 so um i remember a few months back when
0:09:08 you did this project
0:09:10 um and this project you were working
0:09:12 with academics at edinburgh
0:09:14 and it was a sort of an
0:09:17 analysis of data online and also a
0:09:20 qualitative research into
0:09:23 why you have apostasies from a christian
0:09:25 and a muslim perspective
0:09:26 and then you actually came forward and
0:09:28 said it's the moral issue guys
0:09:31 yeah and when i first heard that it
0:09:34 got me a little bit rattled yeah i was
0:09:37 kind of like
0:09:38 um we're going in the wrong direction so
0:09:40 for
0:09:41 many many years this was a big thing
0:09:43 it's scientism it's darwinism it's
0:09:45 liberalism it's this is this is this
0:09:47 it's that
0:09:48 it's some sort of intellectual problem
0:09:51 but then that data
0:09:53 and if you can if you can explain how
0:09:54 that data came about
0:09:56 and the decision made from that which
0:09:58 you're making
0:09:59 in terms of what to concentrate on
0:10:01 clearly shows the research
0:10:03 angle the data led decisions of the
0:10:06 institute which allows us to actually
0:10:08 surgically
0:10:10 focus in on the problems rather than
0:10:12 saying
0:10:13 we think science is the issue and here's
0:10:16 what we
0:10:17 think is the answer rather it's actually
0:10:19 data led and i think that's that's key
0:10:21 here
0:10:22 is data led and we've got professionals
0:10:25 uh
0:10:26 obviously lecturers in universities and
0:10:27 aberdeen
0:10:29 uh and other different universities
0:10:30 oxford and so on like helping us
0:10:32 understand what their problem is and
0:10:36 in terms of in terms of doubts in terms
0:10:38 of apostasies and all those things
0:10:41 and additionally it in terms of bringing
0:10:43 in people to islam what people find most
0:10:45 convincing as well
0:10:46 yeah and these are the two avenues we're
0:10:48 exploring but in terms of
0:10:50 there's no doubt it's an open secret
0:10:52 really now that
0:10:53 the uh in terms of all the shubu the
0:10:56 categories of should we head or the
0:10:58 categories of
0:10:59 um doubts that people have morality is
0:11:02 number one there's nothing
0:11:03 about that yes we're talking about
0:11:05 women's rights issues to do with women's
0:11:07 rights
0:11:08 issues to do with liberalism
0:11:11 those things are central now and quite
0:11:14 frankly
0:11:15 we've not had people that are as trained
0:11:18 as
0:11:19 as like i said before in these areas
0:11:22 political philosophy moral philosophy
0:11:24 and philosophy of religion
0:11:26 philosophy of science as we do together
0:11:29 congregate in one place
0:11:30 and willing by the way and this is an
0:11:32 important difference
0:11:33 willing to attack feminism and
0:11:35 liberalism and stuff like that there are
0:11:37 other institutes out there
0:11:38 that do great work but they for
0:11:40 political reasons will not attack
0:11:41 liberalism and feminism
0:11:43 uh they will not attack those things or
0:11:44 definitely not liberalism
0:11:46 because they have uh connections with
0:11:48 the with the liberal left
0:11:49 for example yeah but this is the head of
0:11:51 the snake if we cut if we cannot attack
0:11:54 liberalism we're not going to be on the
0:11:55 back foot
0:11:56 or if we cannot attack second wave
0:11:58 feminism in particular we're definitely
0:12:00 going to back foot
0:12:01 so we've been doing it wrong i believe
0:12:03 because we have been trying to persuade
0:12:05 people like
0:12:06 if you look at the apologists arguments
0:12:08 on morality like in the last 20 or 30
0:12:10 years
0:12:11 why is polygamy uh allowed in islam or
0:12:13 because there's more men than women it's
0:12:14 a really
0:12:15 respect is quite a pathetic argument
0:12:18 there's more than women it's not
0:12:19 allah it's not hikam it's for me i i
0:12:21 don't i've never been convinced by that
0:12:23 would you respect that the larger
0:12:25 problem it creates is uh there's more
0:12:27 men
0:12:28 in china than women we should yeah yeah
0:12:31 it's it's it's like this is the level
0:12:33 that we were operating yeah yeah
0:12:34 in a way we got away on a wing and a
0:12:36 prayer at that time
0:12:38 yeah it did but we can't do that we
0:12:39 can't do that anymore no um
0:12:41 that's not gonna satisfy anybody the
0:12:42 truth of the matter is um
0:12:44 we have a different paradigm to
0:12:45 feminists second wave feminists
0:12:47 and the fact that we have we have now
0:12:50 diagnosed the problem
0:12:51 in a different way we have not we have
0:12:54 diagnosed the problem in a different way
0:12:55 it's the first step we know what the
0:12:57 problem is people are now looking into
0:12:59 the quran
0:13:00 with a liberal with a small liberal
0:13:03 mindset or the feminist mindset
0:13:04 yeah and they are comparing liberal
0:13:06 ethics with islamic ethics so we have to
0:13:08 bring that to the fore
0:13:09 and show what the inconsistencies are
0:13:11 here and how to solve these
0:13:12 inconsistencies okay so
0:13:14 just before we get into that i mean um
0:13:16 by the way everybody that's watching i
0:13:18 am actually watching very closely and
0:13:20 i'm trying to absorb the questions
0:13:22 coming in the comments coming in
0:13:24 now something uh which because of the
0:13:26 level of comments coming in
0:13:27 rather than trying to address each
0:13:29 question which we inshallah will do
0:13:31 uh when it's relevant something that is
0:13:34 coming up is
0:13:35 the idea that you know you guys are
0:13:38 using
0:13:39 um you've been trained um
0:13:42 many of you uh from a western
0:13:44 philosophical perspective
0:13:46 and you know you're trying to undermine
0:13:48 liberalism and scientism and these types
0:13:50 of things
0:13:51 but you're using essentially a tool
0:13:54 which is the very tool which according
0:13:56 to the argument
0:13:57 is the the cause of the doubts in the
0:14:00 first place
0:14:00 i.e in other words um you're using
0:14:04 philosophy and these philosophical ideas
0:14:07 and they're questioning the legitimacy
0:14:09 of using philosophy to refute these
0:14:12 ideas
0:14:13 and in fact quite directly one of the
0:14:16 comments was that
0:14:17 it's um there seems to be a
0:14:20 scholarly consensus that using
0:14:22 philosophy is
0:14:24 uh forbidden in islam so can we deal
0:14:26 with that elephant in the room before we
0:14:29 um move on yeah we can uh absolutely
0:14:32 first we have to define what philosophy
0:14:34 is yeah because when in the medieval
0:14:36 time period
0:14:37 the when the olympia were talking about
0:14:39 el phalesifera they were talking about
0:14:41 edmonton's followers
0:14:43 anyone who knows who reads uh
0:14:46 to have to philosophize that's what
0:14:49 they're talking about they're not
0:14:50 talking about
0:14:50 there was some this discussion about is
0:14:52 monte carlo
0:14:54 anything like that but at the end of the
0:14:56 day right now
0:14:58 it's one of those things where first and
0:15:01 foremost
0:15:01 if you want me to bring quotations from
0:15:03 ibn tamiya and whatnot we have those
0:15:05 that he allowed it and he even in many
0:15:08 different places
0:15:12 he says some people require he said this
0:15:14 some people i'm paraphrasing here but
0:15:16 i've got a
0:15:16 i've got these kinds of quotes some
0:15:17 people require philosophical arguments
0:15:19 for them you have to give it to them
0:15:20 yeah the the types of arguments you give
0:15:23 them are philosophical because
0:15:25 it's like going into a fight a gunfight
0:15:28 with a knife with a pencil honestly it's
0:15:31 like
0:15:32 if it's ridiculous i i'm actually
0:15:34 surprised that we even having this
0:15:35 discussion
0:15:36 it's what it's like is this like let me
0:15:38 let me give you an energy like 25
0:15:40 years ago mma started 1994 i think it
0:15:42 was the first time
0:15:43 ms yeah and uh they had ufc one
0:15:46 ufc one was uh with hoist gracie and all
0:15:50 of that and he
0:15:51 he won the even though he was quite
0:15:52 small he beat the blue guys
0:15:54 yeah uh shamrock there's no there's no
0:15:56 weight categories
0:15:58 yeah yeah yeah i don't know how the
0:15:59 weight characters work and it was like a
0:16:00 one continuous round or something like
0:16:02 that i can't remember exactly what the
0:16:03 rules were
0:16:04 but the mixed martial arts had changed
0:16:08 forever
0:16:08 everyone knew now what was effective and
0:16:11 what was not effective
0:16:12 it took about 20 years to find out and
0:16:14 we found out what was effective in laws
0:16:15 in africa
0:16:16 we found out grappling bjj muay thai
0:16:20 freestyle wrestling or [ __ ] even these
0:16:22 things are very effective
0:16:23 some aspects of taekwondo they were
0:16:25 effective some aspects of karate were
0:16:27 not all of it were effective the things
0:16:28 were not effective were
0:16:30 the things that were not affected that
0:16:31 people are not doing now
0:16:33 so if you want to be an mma fighter you
0:16:35 have to learn
0:16:36 now you have to learn for example bjj
0:16:38 you have to learn freestyle wrestling
0:16:40 you have to you have to know somebody
0:16:42 you have to know at least if you're a
0:16:43 striker you have to know how to
0:16:44 anti-grapple you have to that's if you
0:16:46 don't you're going to lose
0:16:47 simple as that really and now if we if
0:16:50 we're saying to the
0:16:51 now that you want to do dawah and you
0:16:53 don't want to know the basics of
0:16:54 philosophy or at least how to deal with
0:16:56 shubu head philosophically and how to
0:16:58 answer or put go on the offensive
0:17:01 philosophically
0:17:02 it's just like getting a fighter to go
0:17:04 into
0:17:05 an arena like mma or something not
0:17:07 teaching them grappling
0:17:09 um giving them one dimensional type of
0:17:11 uh
0:17:12 do you try condo do taekwondo and then
0:17:14 go into the ring they'll be finished
0:17:15 straight away
0:17:16 and what it is now is that at the end of
0:17:18 the day we have to act strategically
0:17:20 because
0:17:21 the here the objective is to with that
0:17:25 that we bring allah's word and make it
0:17:27 the higher most this is the strategy
0:17:30 in a strategy of war i'm sorry to say
0:17:32 back in the days
0:17:33 you know when the books were back in the
0:17:35 days right with strategies of
0:17:37 uh physical war that were taken into
0:17:39 place people would do things that were
0:17:41 most
0:17:42 conducive yeah we're not going to put
0:17:44 ourselves in a position where
0:17:46 we have to someone's going to come and
0:17:48 ask us questions to do with
0:17:50 philosophy or philosophy of science or
0:17:52 moral philosophy and these are the main
0:17:53 questions being asked
0:17:54 against islam today and the one thing we
0:17:57 can do is respond by saying but islam
0:17:58 gave women rights that they didn't have
0:18:00 before
0:18:01 you know polygamy was limited from
0:18:02 unlimited to four uh
0:18:04 or that for example uh uh you know one
0:18:07 of the
0:18:08 talaq is this and or this issue or hijab
0:18:10 is this issue and
0:18:11 we're answering to yeah
0:18:14 it's been for me it's been on
0:18:16 satisfaction
0:18:18 i've been this satisfied with the whole
0:18:20 thing so we have to teach
0:18:22 yeah anyone that want to get is this
0:18:24 game this dollar game now if you want to
0:18:25 bring it into the
0:18:26 to the analogy of uh dawah you can't do
0:18:29 it
0:18:30 right now in the 21st century i will
0:18:31 even go as far as to say
0:18:33 you you'll be unsuccessful if you don't
0:18:35 have this grounding it will be
0:18:36 unsuccessful
0:18:37 okay so that's obviously something that
0:18:40 we can see when you're involved in the
0:18:43 arena you're directly there
0:18:45 but would you say there is a a
0:18:48 a gap between say the older generation
0:18:52 who maybe have just seen stuff like
0:18:54 ahmedida
0:18:55 using the bible you know just refuting
0:18:58 and
0:18:59 then also just other people just using
0:19:01 the quran and just
0:19:02 speaking to others and then not really
0:19:05 realizing
0:19:06 that actually this issue is is
0:19:10 far more prevalent at a grassroots level
0:19:12 than it was 20 30 years ago at a
0:19:14 grassroot level 20 30 years ago
0:19:16 you know philosophical arguments against
0:19:18 islam or you know these types of
0:19:20 hardcore atheistic narratives they
0:19:23 hadn't really penetrated
0:19:24 so would you say that um i mean again
0:19:27 we're not
0:19:27 um we're not pointing fingers here but
0:19:29 we're saying
0:19:31 it's it's almost like to really
0:19:33 understand
0:19:34 what you're saying in terms of the
0:19:36 natural selection of ideas that happens
0:19:37 within the
0:19:38 mma of the tower you have to feel the
0:19:41 pain
0:19:42 before you realize and it's very
0:19:43 comfortable sitting in
0:19:45 sitting in a say the middle east and
0:19:47 you're not affected by any of that and
0:19:49 you're kind of like
0:19:49 well why are you doing that like you're
0:19:51 not in the thick of it and you have no
0:19:52 idea what's going on
0:19:53 yeah absolutely i think you said it
0:19:55 perfectly
0:19:56 it's only when these in the same
0:19:58 individuals and i must say from my own
0:20:00 experience is exactly
0:20:01 how you said it is because i've known
0:20:04 people that were let's say
0:20:05 very conservative maybe salafis that are
0:20:07 you know
0:20:08 associated with and that have this very
0:20:10 strong stance against uh philosophy and
0:20:12 stuff like that
0:20:13 and they say it's against the salaf and
0:20:15 you know i know chef i would hit with
0:20:16 the shoe and this and that they're
0:20:18 taking everything out of context well
0:20:19 like yeah even though a chef i wrote a
0:20:21 reseller which is basically a
0:20:23 it's a logic book and i think this is
0:20:25 very important
0:20:26 this is actually technically a fallacy
0:20:28 of equivocation
0:20:30 so if i start having a heart attack
0:20:31 right now i'm like is there a doctor in
0:20:33 the house
0:20:34 and hijab says i'm a doctor and i'm like
0:20:36 alright help me i've got a phd in
0:20:38 sociology i'll be like
0:20:40 no not that doctor medical doctor it's a
0:20:42 fallacy of equivocation so
0:20:44 repeatedly equating philosophy with
0:20:47 kalam
0:20:48 is is the very problem right i mean the
0:20:51 basic thinking
0:20:52 um thinking about thinking something
0:20:54 which is very quranic something which is
0:20:57 very clear that
0:20:58 the muslims were doing uh before for
0:21:01 hundreds
0:21:02 of years you know quite loosely
0:21:05 i said this to hamza the other day yeah
0:21:07 certainly you know how darwin
0:21:09 sorry dawkins yeah famously said darwin
0:21:12 allowed us to be intellectually
0:21:13 satisfied atheists yeah
0:21:14 i think if some of you have to say the
0:21:16 same thing they'd have to say even
0:21:18 tamiya made us into like intellectually
0:21:20 satisfied
0:21:21 selfies and the reason why yes is
0:21:23 because he dove
0:21:24 yes yes yes i like that i like that
0:21:26 think about it i like that look
0:21:28 who before even tell me i did what he
0:21:30 did uh only ahmed
0:21:32 well well absolutely but also after the
0:21:34 sahabah yeah
0:21:35 yeah so he engaged with it no not only
0:21:37 this i mean
0:21:38 if we take uh his way his works
0:21:41 and we actually rip off the name and
0:21:44 just go
0:21:45 post it through someone's letterbox um
0:21:48 they would
0:21:48 actually say this is pure this is pure
0:21:51 philosophy
0:21:52 bro it's in the philosophy department
0:21:53 yeah
0:21:56 most universities
0:22:01 yeah i see this deep philosophy man from
0:22:04 that angle
0:22:04 these guys the problem is that even
0:22:06 though it is yeah
0:22:08 they know what is they don't know what
0:22:09 philosophy is yeah and it's very
0:22:12 easy to to to to dismiss these things
0:22:14 until and this is the thing
0:22:16 you your child come back comes back from
0:22:19 school and says
0:22:20 something and then you're like you know
0:22:22 that's what happened they've come to
0:22:24 realize that
0:22:25 yeah we've been around the country yeah
0:22:27 and we've been in other countries that
0:22:28 are newest
0:22:29 after a couple of years a conservative
0:22:32 muslims or everyone call them
0:22:33 ultra conservative don't engage with
0:22:36 outside whatever
0:22:37 however you want to brand them yeah
0:22:39 after
0:22:41 a while they'll be knocking on your door
0:22:43 yeah and that's what happens
0:22:45 in the beginning it says two years later
0:22:47 they call me and say look
0:22:49 my son uh he started saying things like
0:22:52 lgbt is not how do we argue with that
0:22:56 okay if you ca if you didn't argue with
0:22:58 me about philosophy is haram or
0:23:00 five years ago you would have been you
0:23:02 would have been fine your son would have
0:23:04 i'm not saying your son wouldn't have
0:23:05 gone that direction allah but
0:23:07 you would have known how to deal with
0:23:08 that situation yeah it's the fact that
0:23:10 you've wanted to keep yourself
0:23:12 ignorant on something that is so
0:23:13 pertinent that has made you
0:23:15 fail in this industry it's kind of like
0:23:18 this you know
0:23:19 um some muslim parents and we're both
0:23:21 parents now
0:23:22 uh you know they think okay when my
0:23:24 child's a teenager i'm not gonna tell
0:23:25 them about anything that's out there
0:23:27 you know i'm just gonna shelter them as
0:23:29 if they won't find out as if they don't
0:23:31 know
0:23:31 as if you know that they live in some
0:23:34 sort of cocoon
0:23:36 you have to be able to vaccinate against
0:23:38 against these very ideas
0:23:40 and the other thing is that look
0:23:41 sapience institute the aim
0:23:44 is like you said we want to have a
0:23:46 library we want to have
0:23:47 a a catalog of okay so we have this
0:23:51 particular doubt
0:23:52 this is how it's been refuted and the
0:23:55 powerful thing about this
0:23:56 this methodology is it's sort of
0:23:59 crowdsourced as well so it's not just
0:24:01 simply the case of
0:24:02 okay so hijab hamza iran yusuf ponders
0:24:06 let's just go out there develop this
0:24:07 stuff all of you guys watching martial
0:24:10 arts from 260 right now watching live
0:24:12 you have questions you may have answers
0:24:15 help us
0:24:16 and we we're open to have volunteers as
0:24:18 well and we can actually see okay so
0:24:20 here's a problem
0:24:21 here's a novel solution does it actually
0:24:23 work can we actually apply
0:24:25 now let's delve into some of the videos
0:24:27 that you've been um
0:24:28 uh working on because it relates to this
0:24:30 uh some of the comments that are coming
0:24:32 in
0:24:32 so there's a muslim who says i am a
0:24:35 muslim
0:24:36 who believes the earth is flat according
0:24:38 to the quran
0:24:39 and there are some muslims in the gulf
0:24:41 who believe the earth is flat
0:24:43 and so his perspective is it's not just
0:24:46 that he believes it
0:24:48 he believes it's also a quranic paradigm
0:24:50 so this is something that you've
0:24:52 uh tackled in the past and it's
0:24:54 something that atheists use against us
0:24:56 as well but some muslims believe
0:24:57 the earth island even in fact right now
0:24:59 some westerners and non-muslims
0:25:01 they're actually starting to hold this
0:25:02 view as well but how would you address
0:25:04 this point that
0:25:05 the quran supports a flat earth
0:25:09 yeah look having the belief that the
0:25:11 earth is flat it's not coffee
0:25:13 because you can interpret some of the
0:25:14 verses to mean that the entire
0:25:17 entire globe is is flat if you really
0:25:19 wanted to do that and it's not kufri
0:25:21 so long as it's not something which
0:25:22 takes you out of the fold of islam
0:25:24 because the the wording in the quran is
0:25:27 not
0:25:28 uh so explicit and
0:25:32 uh that it would require it would take
0:25:34 someone out of islam if you believe that
0:25:36 and and evidence of that is that there
0:25:38 have been
0:25:39 some scholars in the past who have
0:25:41 believed that the earth is flat and i
0:25:43 think al-qaeda is one of them actually
0:25:45 yeah he believed that he asked i
0:25:46 remember reading his tafsir he believed
0:25:48 that the earth was flat
0:25:50 he's a major scholar uh but i would say
0:25:53 probably the majority especially
0:25:54 when dealing with less of jesus did not
0:25:56 believe that so josie didn't believe
0:25:57 that
0:25:58 and he said uh obviously if he hasn't
0:26:01 didn't believe that
0:26:03 he didn't believe that he didn't believe
0:26:05 that he didn't believe that even samia
0:26:07 does ishmael and he he went back to
0:26:10 ahmadinejad and his students and said
0:26:11 that they believed that as well that it
0:26:13 was round
0:26:15 so and they and a lot of these
0:26:17 individuals they use
0:26:18 the quran
0:26:37 is going around something which is uh
0:26:39 around
0:26:40 that's why that's what the implication
0:26:42 is and so i think the evidence is pretty
0:26:44 strong that it's around in the quran
0:26:46 from this verse alone but if you want to
0:26:48 believe it's flat i'm not
0:26:50 to each their own and it's not uh a
0:26:52 coffee belief
0:26:53 but what what if what if somebody says
0:26:56 this is the quranic paradigm
0:26:58 you can't say it i just like i said you
0:27:00 can you can believe
0:27:01 it's flat and have the quran to
0:27:04 uh to try and support what you believe
0:27:07 but you have to allow that for other
0:27:08 people as well
0:27:09 yeah what are you going to say to
0:27:11 medieval scholars
0:27:13 i mean the flat earth move movement that
0:27:16 they're saying is a conspiracy
0:27:17 from mine to say i'm not an expert in
0:27:20 the flat earth movement
0:27:21 it's a conspiracy and this and that and
0:27:23 all of that yeah
0:27:24 well how could it be a conspiracy for
0:27:26 the pre
0:27:28 enlightenment individuals it's not
0:27:29 conspiracy for it for them no
0:27:31 would you respect it's not it's not
0:27:32 because
0:27:42 so it's not like there was a grand
0:27:44 conspiracy of collusion
0:27:45 for a thousand four hundred years of
0:27:47 islamic history yeah
0:27:48 if if you wanna say that uh there's no
0:27:52 other interpretation except for that the
0:27:54 uh the earth is flat this is clearly
0:27:56 false it's it's just
0:27:57 historically false it's not even a
0:28:00 matter of uh uh opinion or would respect
0:28:04 is
0:28:04 is historically false because people
0:28:06 before the age before america became a
0:28:08 superpower
0:28:09 before the nasa even had spacecrafts
0:28:12 wherever before whatever conspiracy you
0:28:14 think happened happened
0:28:16 people were saying that the earth was
0:28:17 wrong from the muslim world and they
0:28:18 were using verse in the quran so
0:28:20 you can't say that the only opinion just
0:28:22 like i can't say the only opinion is
0:28:24 therefore is wrong maybe there's a few
0:28:25 opinions that said the f is flat yeah
0:28:26 fine i've just said
0:28:28 one of them i'm not aware of that that
0:28:29 many of them yeah
0:28:31 but um yeah to each their own i mean
0:28:34 it's not a coffee thing i won't worry
0:28:36 about it's not something which i believe
0:28:37 takes you out of the fold of islam
0:28:39 yeah for that i mean while you were
0:28:42 speaking
0:28:43 we actually had a lot more questions
0:28:45 coming in i'd like to send me the link i
0:28:47 can put it on the community
0:28:48 yes i'll do that now
0:28:58 right here questions um so
0:29:01 at the beginning um uh you know we we
0:29:04 mentioned
0:29:05 about obviously the um
0:29:10 you know the various topics that uh you
0:29:13 know we've been making videos about
0:29:15 and there's one thing that comes up
0:29:16 repeatedly um
0:29:18 that's been used by the atheist which is
0:29:20 about the sun
0:29:22 having its um uh so not the sun
0:29:26 the uh the stars being uh
0:29:29 you know shooting at the devils and how
0:29:32 this is unscientific
0:29:34 and how this is um irrational so can you
0:29:37 summarize that video
0:29:39 um because i think that's the topic
0:29:41 which
0:29:42 uh the way alhamdulillah that you
0:29:44 addressed it in that video i haven't
0:29:46 heard it addressed
0:29:47 like that before and i also feel that
0:29:51 the the very answer exposes
0:29:55 the questioner when it comes to you know
0:29:58 this contention that's thrown out it
0:29:59 just shows
0:30:00 the multiple layers of mistakes that
0:30:02 they actually make in even raising
0:30:04 uh such a question i don't even know why
0:30:06 they would respect
0:30:08 here and i don't even i don't even get
0:30:10 why this is a contention and
0:30:12 i don't think to be honest it's a
0:30:14 contention that many muslims take
0:30:15 seriously
0:30:16 but because some of these anti-muslim
0:30:18 apologies have brought up in the
0:30:20 last i don't know what it is it's
0:30:22 started to be uh
0:30:24 discussed but like one of the main
0:30:26 issues i've done i put on the community
0:30:27 but
0:30:28 okay brilliant yeah one of the main
0:30:30 issues is it's a category mistake
0:30:31 fallacy
0:30:32 like i'm starting to see some really
0:30:35 stupid things
0:30:37 from the anti-muslim apologetics like
0:30:40 when the quran and the sunnah are
0:30:42 clearly talking about metaphysical
0:30:44 things
0:30:45 they they somehow call this unscientific
0:30:48 yeah
0:30:49 what's that got to do with science like
0:30:51 it's it's clearly
0:30:54 beyond science it's clearly not meant to
0:30:56 be scientific yeah
0:30:57 i mean even if we consult david humes
0:30:59 i'd um question a
0:31:01 definition of what a miracle is yep
0:31:03 something which is outside the
0:31:04 scope of natural law or whatever he said
0:31:06 it was these things are intended to be
0:31:08 like that
0:31:10 so there's a category now of mistakes or
0:31:13 that
0:31:13 how could it be possible that the sea
0:31:15 was split into two how could it be
0:31:16 possible that the moon split or
0:31:20 all of these things which are
0:31:22 necessarily intended
0:31:23 to be uh miracles something which is
0:31:25 metaphysical
0:31:27 they're saying it's unscientific when
0:31:30 basic philosophy of science student will
0:31:32 tell you
0:31:33 as you'll know more than me actually is
0:31:34 that you know it's a methodological
0:31:36 naturalism
0:31:37 uh and so with a methodological natural
0:31:39 science
0:31:40 is based on that with methodological
0:31:42 naturalism and therefore
0:31:44 um anything is not that anything outside
0:31:46 of that naturalism is not going to be
0:31:48 included in that by definition yeah so
0:31:50 all these miracles and stuff
0:31:52 like that's got nothing to do it's got
0:31:54 nothing to do with science
0:31:55 yeah it's not like the the author of the
0:31:57 quran whoever they think
0:31:58 is yeah was not aware of that they were
0:32:01 intentionally trying to
0:32:03 yeah project that so or present that so
0:32:06 this is what i think is
0:32:07 is problematic and i just feel like it's
0:32:09 so
0:32:11 this is there's a misattribute
0:32:13 misattributed quote to albert einstein
0:32:15 it's not actually a true quote
0:32:17 where he said insanity is doing the same
0:32:19 thing over and over again and expecting
0:32:21 a different result
0:32:22 it sounds good but it's not from albert
0:32:23 einstein it's misattribute but this is
0:32:25 what if if it is if there is some
0:32:27 element of truth in that definition
0:32:28 which i don't think
0:32:29 is fully coherent but this is what
0:32:32 they're doing they're continuing
0:32:33 the same hair that i had 20 years ago 30
0:32:36 years ago
0:32:37 and they're expecting a different result
0:32:39 these
0:32:40 these ones are the weakest ones like
0:32:42 when you're when you're getting we're
0:32:42 talking about the
0:32:43 bloody uh meteorite and uh
0:32:46 sorry to say the devil and you think
0:32:48 people are gonna leave islam because of
0:32:50 that
0:32:50 like is that your best shot yeah when i
0:32:52 was talking to apus
0:32:54 on on the live stream that was the first
0:32:56 thing he brought up
0:32:57 like is that you really the strongest
0:32:59 thing you have you this thing probably
0:33:01 got millions of views i don't know how
0:33:02 many views it got all together like if
0:33:04 you think about
0:33:04 adam sales uh podcast channel on my
0:33:07 channel his channel probably got about a
0:33:08 million views all together or something
0:33:09 like that or if not close to it
0:33:11 and you had a chance to present your
0:33:14 strongest argument the first thing you
0:33:15 brought
0:33:16 was to uh it says in the quran
0:33:19 that the meteorites or the solar flares
0:33:22 are attacking the the
0:33:24 devils or whatever it is that he said
0:33:25 how could this be scientific
0:33:27 like really like you have a chance to
0:33:30 disprove islam you're
0:33:31 you've got and this is the first is that
0:33:33 seriously that
0:33:35 that actually gives me and i think
0:33:37 millions of muslims worldwide a lot of
0:33:39 confidence in islam
0:33:40 absolutely absolutely and i i think what
0:33:42 we want to do next
0:33:43 is um and this this part of the process
0:33:46 i really want to manage well because i
0:33:49 have done this in the past and
0:33:51 i really have to uh put my foot down
0:33:54 sometimes
0:33:55 um we're going to be inviting people to
0:33:57 the live stream
0:33:58 but the point of coming on the live
0:34:00 stream is not to say oh i love mohammed
0:34:02 hijab yeah we don't need that
0:34:04 that's the one if you don't want to do
0:34:06 that then please don't come on the live
0:34:07 stream
0:34:07 so if you come on a live stream
0:34:10 just if you have a question for sapience
0:34:13 institute to actually answer
0:34:16 um please join the live stream and the
0:34:18 reason also is when i normally
0:34:20 put the link the room gets bombarded we
0:34:22 can only let in 10 people in the studio
0:34:24 that's the limit and anybody that joins
0:34:25 after 10
0:34:26 they get booted out automatically we've
0:34:29 had non-muslims in the past who have
0:34:31 joined the live stream
0:34:32 and because the muslims were there and
0:34:34 some of the muslims just wanted to say
0:34:36 oh we love you know this person oh this
0:34:38 is fine you can say that brother why are
0:34:40 you making it
0:34:41 so please anybody with questions we're
0:34:44 going to be
0:34:44 putting the link there and answering
0:34:48 your questions and of course we love to
0:34:49 hear from the audience and we you know
0:34:51 uh we want to interact as much as
0:34:53 possible but keep in mind we want to
0:34:55 give priority to obviously people who
0:34:56 have
0:34:57 questions you know i forget that
0:35:00 um the essence of what we want to do
0:35:04 is um what we want to do is
0:35:08 we want to be able to answer questions
0:35:10 and
0:35:11 uh answer them effectively and also from
0:35:13 you find out
0:35:15 actually what are the upcoming burning
0:35:18 issues that we actually need to deal
0:35:20 with
0:35:20 um as well now um our boss is actually
0:35:24 supposed to be live right now um but is
0:35:27 not
0:35:28 um but anyway he sent some questions
0:35:31 um is that before people start asking
0:35:34 questions
0:35:34 yeah i mean look i put up the link and
0:35:37 look what's happened
0:35:39 there's a lot of them man there's a lot
0:35:41 of them there mashallah
0:35:42 um okay so um i'm just
0:35:45 allowing jim to join
0:35:49 uh can you unmute yourself please jim
0:35:52 yeah so my question to
0:35:55 muhammad can i ask a question yes of
0:35:58 course yes
0:36:00 so my question to mohammed hijab is
0:36:02 regarding this
0:36:03 miracle of splitting the moon into two
0:36:07 by prophet muhammad and
0:36:10 uh there are no uh there is
0:36:14 probably no historical records uh to
0:36:17 suggest that
0:36:18 this happened like uh
0:36:21 not outside arabia or something like
0:36:23 that and
0:36:24 also if this happened uh the
0:36:27 astronomical
0:36:28 people who are in different parts of the
0:36:30 world they didn't
0:36:34 the people who used to do astronomy in
0:36:36 fifth and sixth centuries
0:36:38 they also didn't talk about something
0:36:40 like this happening
0:36:43 so in terms of both science observation
0:36:46 and
0:36:47 also in terms of historical
0:36:50 record how to confirm that this miracle
0:36:54 happened
0:36:56 yeah so
0:37:00 jim first and foremost so if someone
0:37:02 says to you there is no evidence of
0:37:04 something therefore it didn't happen
0:37:06 this is called an argument from silence
0:37:07 fallacy
0:37:08 this is a fallacious reasoning just
0:37:10 because there's no evidence of something
0:37:12 or there is
0:37:12 currently no evidence of something it
0:37:14 doesn't mean that there
0:37:15 that thing didn't happen i'll give you a
0:37:17 great example of this like for example
0:37:20 from my gather from reading some of the
0:37:23 material on um
0:37:26 uh basically hebrew narratives and
0:37:29 especially like david
0:37:31 david alaihissalam that would um so
0:37:34 david if you look at for example some of
0:37:37 the
0:37:38 the academics i'm trying to remember
0:37:39 their name like israel finkelstein not
0:37:41 norman finkelstein there's a guy called
0:37:42 israel from finkelstein and others
0:37:44 who were pretty against like they had
0:37:48 they were against the idea that um david
0:37:50 could have actually existed as a prophet
0:37:52 et cetera
0:37:53 and a lot of them had bring their
0:37:55 writings that there's no
0:37:56 there's no evidence of david there's no
0:37:58 evidence of uh
0:37:59 and then there's something called a tell
0:38:02 that tells dan steeler
0:38:04 this stealer was basically like a rock
0:38:06 and on it had
0:38:07 you know the house of david so a lot of
0:38:10 people started changing their minds
0:38:12 on the existence of this thing called
0:38:13 the house of david because there was
0:38:15 extra biblical evidence
0:38:17 to promote this idea that there was this
0:38:20 you know tell dan steele and now
0:38:22 saying uh house of david and so on so
0:38:25 now there's extra biblical
0:38:26 now they have to reassess the
0:38:28 information and say
0:38:29 well maybe there was such a thing maybe
0:38:32 there was such a place
0:38:33 but maybe it's not as it's mentioned in
0:38:35 the bible they still have their
0:38:36 reservations but they've changed
0:38:37 it they've changed their stance yeah so
0:38:40 if if we're saying this discovery i
0:38:41 don't know when it was made by the way
0:38:42 maybe it was made 20 years ago but
0:38:44 see this discovery was made 20 years ago
0:38:46 if it wasn't made 30 years ago
0:38:48 um maybe 50 years ago people would be
0:38:50 saying there's no evidence yeah no
0:38:51 and if they were saying no there's no
0:38:52 evidence therefore there's no extra
0:38:54 biblical evidence of the existence of
0:38:55 david
0:38:56 yeah we would say that that would be an
0:38:58 argument from silence and the problem
0:38:59 with arguments from silence is that
0:39:01 all it takes is a decade or two for it
0:39:03 to be um
0:39:04 disproven and we know now especially
0:39:06 with the proliferation of like
0:39:08 archaeological
0:39:09 er evidences not everything has been dug
0:39:12 up not everything has been codified
0:39:14 number two is that we can't expect like
0:39:16 let's say for example this is
0:39:18 the whole uh splitting of the moon
0:39:20 phenomena
0:39:22 when did it happen let's say it happened
0:39:24 with the salam uh
0:39:25 in in a particular time let's say after
0:39:27 maghrib after
0:39:28 sunset time yeah first of all what was
0:39:30 the population of the earth at that time
0:39:32 i would probably estimate it i mean we
0:39:34 don't have any strong
0:39:35 figures on this there was no census that
0:39:37 was being done everywhere in the world
0:39:38 like we don't have any strong figures
0:39:40 but you can imagine seventh century
0:39:42 arabia because like only a hundred years
0:39:43 ago
0:39:44 the population of the world was one
0:39:45 billion yeah i mean it's gone up seven
0:39:48 fold in
0:39:49 100 years yeah but there's also another
0:39:51 additional assumption here
0:39:53 and we can just undercut this argument
0:39:55 completely which is
0:39:57 this miracle is a miracle because we
0:39:59 believe the quran is a miracle and since
0:40:01 we can give evidence that the quran
0:40:03 is the word of allah that it doesn't
0:40:06 matter with anything else that it says
0:40:07 in the quran whether we have
0:40:09 whether someone thinks it meets up to a
0:40:11 certain criteria or it doesn't
0:40:13 secondly this whole idea of okay there
0:40:14 weren't people around
0:40:16 or we don't have evidence today who is
0:40:18 to say that that is
0:40:19 what allah intended this could be a
0:40:22 miracle as it's been explained by some
0:40:23 scholars that
0:40:24 it was just for the quraish because it
0:40:26 was for them
0:40:28 so you know it is it is inconceivable
0:40:31 for someone to use
0:40:33 an argument which is conditional which
0:40:35 is
0:40:36 which is in essence what they're saying
0:40:37 is it's not meeting my criteria my
0:40:40 criteria is there should be evidence
0:40:41 today
0:40:42 and there should be evidence of
0:40:43 independent people some people in china
0:40:45 who saw it
0:40:46 but that was never the intention there's
0:40:48 another thing as well right yeah so
0:40:50 if going back to the population numbers
0:40:52 if we're saying there's about 1 billion
0:40:53 people
0:40:54 100 years ago yeah what was the
0:40:56 population figures for a thousand 400
0:40:57 years ago maybe 100 million yeah maybe
0:40:59 50 million yeah
0:41:00 a low adam it could have been anywhere
0:41:02 from 50 million to 150 million yeah
0:41:04 these are just some of my like
0:41:05 estimates here in my mind now of those
0:41:07 individuals
0:41:09 how what was it in terms of night okay
0:41:11 so
0:41:12 okay that time can you wrap this up a
0:41:13 little bit because in terms of my time
0:41:15 how many
0:41:16 of those individuals it would have been
0:41:18 nightfall yeah then you're going to
0:41:19 eliminate
0:41:20 another and then how many are if they're
0:41:21 if it was night time how many of them
0:41:23 were awake
0:41:23 then you're going to eliminate this and
0:41:25 that now the point is if you don't
0:41:26 accept and how long did this last for i
0:41:28 mean this lasts for a second or two
0:41:30 yeah would that have been significant
0:41:31 enough for people to record it yeah if
0:41:33 something happened for one second
0:41:34 if i looked into the sky and saw
0:41:36 something yeah like would i record that
0:41:38 as an astronomer
0:41:40 yes i mean there's no surprise it's not
0:41:43 a great argument but the point i'm
0:41:44 making is this is that finally
0:41:46 we have assanit
0:41:50 when he when he pointed at the the
0:41:53 camera the moon
0:41:54 says um he said bear witness to this
0:41:57 belt listed this
0:41:58 and the people that saw it will witness
0:42:00 to it now here's my the final part of
0:42:02 this argument
0:42:03 to the people the quran says
0:42:09 that the the hour has come close and the
0:42:11 uh and the
0:42:12 and the moon has been split if
0:42:16 this was something which was foreign to
0:42:19 the majority of the target audience they
0:42:22 would have rejected that yeah
0:42:25 like for instance you know what the
0:42:26 quran says okay so let's
0:42:29 move on we do because there's loads of
0:42:31 people sorry hijab yeah
0:42:32 okay so earth but we'll make a video on
0:42:34 that if it's something that's required
0:42:36 yep so earth uh could you ask a question
0:42:38 please yes yeah
0:42:39 yes welcome brother
0:42:43 i'm i'm the person that you're talking
0:42:46 you you've been answering me about the
0:42:49 flathead okay all right
0:42:53 i'm the same guy okay yeah uh
0:42:56 why that there's uh
0:42:59 many people like uh every christian or
0:43:03 muslims or any
0:43:04 any anybody they say that that
0:43:08 there's god they use cosmological
0:43:10 argument
0:43:11 then like the christian they're gonna
0:43:13 say that this is
0:43:15 jesus muslims they're gonna say this is
0:43:17 allah and
0:43:18 every everybody they will use
0:43:22 you know what i mean
0:43:25 yeah but the cosmological argument is
0:43:27 not making an argument for god man
0:43:31 and like uh like i would say
0:43:35 who create the universe they say we
0:43:37 don't know
0:43:38 if we say that from god um they say
0:43:41 like i'm i don't know i'm going to say
0:43:43 it's arabic
0:43:48 okay so what uh
0:43:51 what did they prove that the universe is
0:43:53 from allah
0:43:54 not just god from allah
0:43:58 well there's only so far logic can take
0:44:00 us
0:44:01 we can't in terms of the arguments that
0:44:03 we make
0:44:04 we don't make arguments for me not even
0:44:06 99 but whatever it is attributes are in
0:44:08 the quran
0:44:09 that we don't say that the the
0:44:11 cosmological argument or the contingency
0:44:13 argument or the fine-tuning argument
0:44:14 yeah any of these arguments can give us
0:44:20 all of those things no we say that if
0:44:22 you argue well
0:44:24 and you argue properly we will be able
0:44:25 to establish that allah is pre-eternal
0:44:27 post-eternal he's one
0:44:28 he's powerful and he's knowledgeable and
0:44:31 everything depends upon him and he def
0:44:32 depends upon nothing which for us is a
0:44:34 base definition the samadhi of allah
0:44:36 subhanahu ta'ala
0:44:38 we can argue for those things that this
0:44:41 effect or the attributes that you would
0:44:43 be able to uh understand from
0:44:45 us we can get to that level yeah but the
0:44:47 level of all the
0:44:52 that requires someone to believe in the
0:44:54 quran and for that there requires to be
0:44:57 an argument from the quran the quran is
0:44:59 the word of allah for us to get all of
0:45:00 these other attributes of allah
0:45:02 absolutely
0:45:17 yeah my question was uh what are the
0:45:21 sort of general ideas of how
0:45:24 of the differences in the way that we
0:45:26 have to approach the
0:45:29 atheists and maybe even pagans of today
0:45:31 versus how the
0:45:33 prophet salarialism and the companions
0:45:35 had to approach
0:45:36 the pagans of their time and the
0:45:38 christians of their time
0:45:39 and how can we maybe utilize the tools
0:45:41 of the 21st century maybe you know
0:45:43 technology and these the study of
0:45:46 philosophy
0:45:47 and the studies that have emerged in
0:45:50 modern academia to
0:45:52 sort of spread islam in a way that's um
0:45:56 most suitable to the people of our time
0:45:58 the difference is that in that time
0:46:00 a lot of pagans like the quran says many
0:46:02 times
0:46:05 if you ask them who created the heavens
0:46:07 and the earth they would say allah even
0:46:08 the pagans would say that
0:46:10 now if you ask some of the atheists
0:46:12 they'll say i don't know or they would
0:46:14 say
0:46:15 it's not they wouldn't say allah so we
0:46:17 have to start with rubobia
0:46:19 before they don't really have to start
0:46:20 with in that sense although
0:46:22 they have to start with uluhiya but you
0:46:25 know we have to start with
0:46:27 you so and that's in a way that what
0:46:29 abraham ibrahim did
0:46:31 uh when he was talking about you know
0:46:35 this is
0:46:35 my lord this is my lord and he did
0:46:37 something called argumentum and absurdum
0:46:39 so i showed that all these things can't
0:46:40 be
0:46:41 lord therefore you know something which
0:46:43 doesn't have
0:46:44 these uh contingent qualities must be
0:46:47 something which is necessary and
0:46:49 powerful and
0:46:50 is it doesn't uh set in the case of the
0:46:53 sun and the moon and so on
0:46:55 yeah yeah i mean overall i would i would
0:46:57 add look
0:46:58 um when it comes to prophet sallam he
0:47:00 was smashing idols he was smashing the
0:47:02 la
0:47:03 the idols of lot zamanath and what were
0:47:05 they they were basically
0:47:07 where the creation of allah gave the
0:47:09 creation of allah
0:47:11 some attributes of allah and and and
0:47:13 said okay
0:47:15 these things they they suffice us they
0:47:17 take care of us
0:47:18 well there's no difference between the
0:47:20 atheists today in the quraish
0:47:22 then because the for the atheists the
0:47:24 universe
0:47:26 or natural selection or mother nature
0:47:29 this is the new lot
0:47:30 this is the new uzza it's the same thing
0:47:33 they've given
0:47:34 nature that placeholder label rather
0:47:36 than
0:47:37 sticks and stones but in essence it's
0:47:39 the same argument
0:47:41 um and you find this that you know the
0:47:43 universe has a plan for you you know
0:47:45 it's the same thing it's the exact same
0:47:47 thing
0:47:47 so um you know there is there isn't much
0:47:50 of a difference here
0:47:51 okay let's move on to brother redder
0:47:59 salam brother hi uh
0:48:03 uh okay so i have two questions can i
0:48:05 ask both or can i only ask one of the
0:48:07 two
0:48:08 one please my brother just we have very
0:48:11 a lot of people yeah um no issues no
0:48:14 issues so basically
0:48:15 um i had a interesting discussion with
0:48:17 an atheist the other day
0:48:20 and the discussion was regarding quantum
0:48:23 mechanics
0:48:24 and in relation to the first premise of
0:48:26 the kalam cosmological argument
0:48:28 this individual's argument basically
0:48:30 he's saying
0:48:32 sorry
0:48:33 [Music]
0:48:35 okay basically what this person is
0:48:36 saying is um
0:48:38 [Music]
0:48:40 something can come from nothing because
0:48:42 a
0:48:43 vacuum sorry basically saying something
0:48:45 can come from nothing because quantum
0:48:47 mechanics is indeterministic
0:48:50 meaning that it manipulates space-time
0:48:52 which is what this is what he said and
0:48:54 then he said
0:48:55 according to heisenberg's uncertainty
0:48:57 principle
0:48:58 in a vacuum um particles are both in and
0:49:02 out of existence
0:49:03 something along those lines what i'm
0:49:04 wondering is can you maybe give me some
0:49:07 more insight into
0:49:09 what that's just let me see yeah sorry
0:49:11 to cut you that's a very very simple
0:49:14 old contention um anything within the
0:49:17 universe
0:49:18 that is taking place is obviously taking
0:49:20 place within a
0:49:21 rich sea of particles so it's not from
0:49:24 nothing
0:49:25 and just because we don't know the cause
0:49:27 doesn't mean that
0:49:28 something can pop into existence from
0:49:30 nothing and if something does
0:49:32 come within this universe um then it's
0:49:34 within the universe right so that there
0:49:36 is obviously some causation there
0:49:38 so this is an argument which has been
0:49:39 dealt with in the past uh it's basically
0:49:43 could you could you could classify as
0:49:44 another fallacy of equivocation because
0:49:46 what they mean by nothing is not what we
0:49:48 mean by nothing which is an absence of
0:49:50 anything right but if something's
0:49:52 happening within the universe then
0:49:54 obviously
0:49:54 it cannot be nothing so uh
0:49:58 hamza's book has this contention in a
0:50:00 lot more detail
0:50:02 um but yeah that that's a very critical
0:50:04 also russian russian's book has
0:50:06 uh the necessary existence no he's he
0:50:09 he's got something
0:50:10 called one of the objections from
0:50:12 quantum character if you want further
0:50:13 reading go to that book
0:50:14 brilliant okay let's go to brother
0:50:16 faisal
0:50:21 faisal are you there didn't we just
0:50:24 speak to facebook
0:50:26 did we speak to facebook okay
0:50:30 um remove okay um
0:50:33 [Music]
0:50:35 so by the way if we answer your
0:50:36 questions please could you leave the
0:50:38 studio because other people are trying
0:50:39 to join
0:50:40 so uh the next one is to khan
0:50:44 brothers how are you
0:50:49 [Music]
0:50:50 i'm very happy to talk with you i have a
0:50:52 question
0:50:54 according to the philosophy of
0:50:56 materialism
0:50:57 everything is purposeless and
0:50:59 meaningless then we
0:51:01 ask a question why do we feel a sense of
0:51:03 meaning
0:51:04 they asked a day after that richard
0:51:07 tonkin
0:51:08 explained it in the selfish gene that
0:51:11 meaning is something that environment
0:51:13 give us and
0:51:14 we think that this is a meaning and
0:51:19 that mutation in genes cause us to think
0:51:22 that there is many
0:51:23 obviously there is no meaning so natural
0:51:26 selection is something that
0:51:27 uh create a illusion of me
0:51:31 yep and this is a
0:51:34 a standard sort of question which is
0:51:36 asked
0:51:37 um and many of these sort of uh things
0:51:40 are put forward and the problem here
0:51:42 is it's an assertion it's not an
0:51:45 argument
0:51:46 so you know natural selection has
0:51:48 designed us in a way that
0:51:50 is making us more likely to be
0:51:51 creationists that's another thing that
0:51:53 they say
0:51:54 in addition to is is created this um
0:51:58 this illusion within us that there
0:51:59 should be meaning in the universe or
0:52:01 this illusion
0:52:02 uh within us to believe in god because
0:52:04 we have a a design detection
0:52:06 module which we developed in our
0:52:08 evolutionary history
0:52:09 all of these are assertions now in order
0:52:12 for you to challenge
0:52:13 an assertion you first need them to give
0:52:16 you an argument
0:52:17 when they give you an argument then you
0:52:18 can challenge the premises and then you
0:52:20 can actually refute it
0:52:21 but at this moment all they've said is
0:52:24 here is an assertion what can be a third
0:52:27 pin without evidence can be dismissed
0:52:29 with our evidence
0:52:30 so that's the way you deal with it we
0:52:32 say but what's that
0:52:34 they say that it is an environment it is
0:52:37 your environment which gives you
0:52:38 some meanings so due to the mutation in
0:52:41 dna or genes
0:52:42 you think that there is a meaning yep
0:52:44 that's an assertion
0:52:46 what's the evidence for that
0:52:49 like today we are doing the same thing
0:52:52 um
0:52:53 when our environment give us a meaning
0:52:55 uh we when we born we don't think that
0:52:57 we have a meaning
0:52:59 when our environment tells us you have a
0:53:01 meaning what parents tell us that
0:53:03 they give a response but how does that
0:53:06 show that natural selection selected
0:53:08 that
0:53:09 what's the evidence for that i don't
0:53:12 think
0:53:12 there
0:53:16 you have to remember the way evolution
0:53:20 works and this is extremely important
0:53:21 for everyone to understand
0:53:23 even darwinis get this wrong sometimes
0:53:26 it's not the case that our
0:53:28 mind develops because of the environment
0:53:31 now
0:53:32 it doesn't our mind developed
0:53:35 in a period of time when we were hunter
0:53:38 gatherers in which we had a stable
0:53:40 environment for hundreds of thousands of
0:53:42 years
0:53:43 in this environment in which every
0:53:45 decade is complete change
0:53:47 there's not enough time for natural
0:53:48 selection to
0:53:51 shape your cognitive mechanisms
0:53:54 therefore
0:53:55 the way darwin is see is we're
0:53:56 mismatched for the modern world
0:53:58 so even when they start saying well
0:54:00 we're acting like this because of the
0:54:02 internet and the internet has affected
0:54:04 us and we evolved
0:54:05 all of that is nonsense because our
0:54:06 evolutionary history
0:54:08 even according to them happened in the
0:54:10 hunter gatherer
0:54:11 era and uh you know they saw this
0:54:13 whenever they say things like
0:54:15 well in uh meaning is not intrinsic uh
0:54:18 meaning uh doesn't exist it's purely
0:54:21 environmentally induced
0:54:22 we can simply say well there's no
0:54:24 evidence for that and secondly
0:54:26 if you are going to say that it's
0:54:28 environmentally induced and it's
0:54:30 something which natural selection
0:54:32 came up with then you have to give us a
0:54:35 little bit of evidence for that for us
0:54:37 to even to begin to have the
0:54:38 conversation
0:54:39 but again they need to give a
0:54:42 argument they're just giving an
0:54:43 assertion and you have to be able to as
0:54:46 adaya
0:54:47 you have to be able to simply not only
0:54:49 in this case but in every case that this
0:54:51 comes up simply dismiss it
0:54:53 because thank you so much thank you so
0:54:55 much yeah
0:54:56 it's like this i i sometimes get muslim
0:54:58 saying my atheist friend said
0:55:01 design is an illusion i don't answer the
0:55:04 question i say well first
0:55:05 they need to give argument for that
0:55:07 assertion then we can deal with it so
0:55:09 it's the same thing inshallah
0:55:11 would you like a locate with it does not
0:55:15 okay next is i'm going to give this to
0:55:17 you hijab the guy with the thumbs up
0:55:18 let's see what
0:55:25 i wanted to ask a question about
0:55:26 equality uh generally in the middle east
0:55:29 um if islam came to
0:55:32 kind to uh establish equality
0:55:36 obviously back then people were
0:55:37 mistreated and
0:55:39 and all of that today we see large
0:55:42 amounts of inequality especially
0:55:44 uh when it comes to the female side of
0:55:46 things um
0:55:47 so that so to me there's a disconnect
0:55:50 and obviously i could be wrong but where
0:55:53 did that
0:55:54 kind of disconnect happen and where did
0:55:57 i go off the rails if that makes sense i
0:55:59 think about racial agenda sorry
0:56:01 just gender i mean gender by itself
0:56:04 at the moment but yeah yeah it's gender
0:56:06 yeah so for sure
0:56:07 islam is not trying to do what feminism
0:56:09 is trying to do you know
0:56:11 second wave feminism is saying that
0:56:15 despite all of the differences that we
0:56:17 have anatomical and so on
0:56:19 that we should have equality between men
0:56:21 and women and
0:56:22 and islam says that generally there's
0:56:24 equality between the lord should be at
0:56:25 least
0:56:26 equality in front of the law because the
0:56:28 prophet said in them
0:56:30 that certainly men are equal to women
0:56:33 but there are
0:56:34 very clear exceptions to that so we
0:56:36 don't believe in an absolute equality
0:56:38 like
0:56:39 the way in which someone like negozi the
0:56:41 one who wrote the feminist manifesto
0:56:43 recently she was saying that he believe
0:56:45 i was reading a book a very small
0:56:47 book and she was saying we live in
0:56:48 absolute equality for this for the
0:56:50 genders
0:56:51 except for breastfeeding i think that
0:56:52 was the one thing that she
0:56:54 made as an exception you say that
0:56:55 there's some real anatomical and
0:56:57 physiological and psychological and
0:56:59 emotional
0:56:59 and um psychological differences between
0:57:02 men and women
0:57:03 and those all need to be taken to
0:57:05 consideration when
0:57:07 in prescription and so um we don't we
0:57:10 don't share the same beliefs as
0:57:12 second wave feminists uh which say that
0:57:15 there should be legality uh complete um
0:57:18 equality exactly like the same man and
0:57:20 woman we don't believe that we believe
0:57:22 that
0:57:23 there should be a complementarity okay
0:57:25 we believe in we don't believe in um
0:57:28 egality we believe in complementarity
0:57:30 yeah and so
0:57:32 yeah yeah just to add to that um
0:57:36 even if we take their line their
0:57:38 standard line of how
0:57:40 we came about society was never
0:57:43 egalitarian
0:57:46 in fact evolutionary psychologists find
0:57:48 themselves completely at odds with
0:57:50 feminist
0:57:51 and egalitarian values
0:57:54 so for example toxic masculinity
0:57:58 is something that some evolutionary
0:58:00 psychologists see
0:58:01 a function for likewise gender roles
0:58:04 there's a function for that there's a
0:58:06 reason why natural selection
0:58:08 according to them has shaped
0:58:12 uh patriarchal societies um so
0:58:15 i i think what we need to be clear about
0:58:17 and what what uh
0:58:18 hijab was saying earlier our paradigm is
0:58:20 not like this so when we say
0:58:22 equality when we say this or we say that
0:58:25 we don't mean the same thing that's
0:58:27 right they mean something totally
0:58:28 different
0:58:29 but what's important to know is that we
0:58:32 have a basis and the basis is the quran
0:58:34 and the sunnah
0:58:35 now technically allah could have said
0:58:37 the man gets half the inheritance
0:58:39 that the woman gets from it we would
0:58:42 accept it because that's what allah said
0:58:43 but allah said the opposite
0:58:45 or allah could have said something
0:58:46 totally different the thing is a
0:58:48 memonist can read the quran and say the
0:58:49 quran is unfair towards men
0:58:51 because men have to go to war and men
0:58:54 have to die and men have to do the
0:58:55 difficult jobs and they have to write a
0:58:57 feminist can read the quran and say
0:58:59 the quran is against women because of
0:59:00 this verse and that verse allah does no
0:59:02 injustice to anyone but what's very
0:59:04 important my brother is our lens our
0:59:06 starting paradigm
0:59:08 is that we submit to the commands of
0:59:11 allah
0:59:12 and our understanding of equality our
0:59:14 understanding of what is just
0:59:16 is what allah has decided it's not a
0:59:19 human
0:59:20 construct because if you look at their
0:59:22 narratives
0:59:23 which is this is what we mean by
0:59:24 equality oh really is that what you mean
0:59:26 by equality
0:59:27 how did this develop you start to see
0:59:29 that actually
0:59:30 their terms are undefined their
0:59:32 arguments are unrefined as well
0:59:35 and they are completely at odds with
0:59:37 each other in terms of origins
0:59:39 of of of these particular values and
0:59:42 their implications in society today
0:59:44 so if you have this argument down with
0:59:47 patriarchy
0:59:48 great downward patriarchy but did a
0:59:50 natural selection according to you
0:59:52 design patriarchy to create societies
0:59:56 which have social cohesion
0:59:58 and this is extremely important to
1:00:00 understand that whether you're muslim or
1:00:01 not muslim
1:00:02 you're muslim but the muslim narrative
1:00:05 is coherent
1:00:07 and it's a rival to the other narrative
1:00:09 but the other
1:00:10 narrative is incoherent in in of itself
1:00:14 there is a fundamental problem with the
1:00:16 idea
1:00:17 that natural selection shaped our
1:00:19 psychological mechanisms
1:00:21 and our values and our ethics and all of
1:00:23 these things and
1:00:25 the egalitarian ideas because you cannot
1:00:28 find
1:00:29 those egalitarian ideas when you look at
1:00:31 evolutionary history
1:00:32 unless you start to do some cherry
1:00:34 picking and saying well bonobos are like
1:00:36 this
1:00:36 but let's ignore the chimps you know
1:00:38 stuff like that
1:00:40 cool thank you thank you very much
1:00:44 okay next is the guy with the doc i
1:00:46 don't i don't even know how to pronounce
1:00:47 that
1:00:52 so my question is about islamic ruling
1:00:54 so
1:00:55 uh so so so sorry
1:00:59 i guess
1:01:03 then 21 it says uh you shouldn't marry
1:01:05 the policies basically
1:01:07 talking to men a muslim man and then
1:01:10 there is uh
1:01:11 yeah and then it's in surah 5
1:01:16 verse 5 it says you're allowed to marry
1:01:17 christians
1:01:19 and i know as far as they say christians
1:01:21 are politics
1:01:23 the worship to god's elementary
1:01:26 okay so just before that brother
1:01:28 faithful i kicked you out the studio by
1:01:30 complete accident can you please rejoin
1:01:33 yeah
1:01:34 but the problem is uh that i thought you
1:01:36 already are
1:01:37 we already answered your question that's
1:01:38 why i booted you out because we're
1:01:40 trying to add more people but that's
1:01:42 been we've seen
1:01:42 that's a bit stronger yeah well he
1:01:46 doesn't he doesn't mind he sounds like a
1:01:47 cool guy
1:01:48 but right now the studio is a bit full
1:01:50 but do try and join
1:01:52 um by the way i i do have to uh
1:01:55 uh sorry no but we have to like
1:01:58 be a bit um brutal sorry
1:02:02 now you're going oh darwin on us man
1:02:05 so sorry guys survival of the fitness um
1:02:08 it's not even nice
1:02:09 okay uh brother uh did you understand
1:02:12 this question yeah
1:02:13 yeah just leave them on because we might
1:02:15 need to probe
1:02:17 yeah look i think that uh you have to
1:02:20 understand that there are
1:02:22 first of all if this is an attempt to
1:02:23 try and show there's an inconsistency of
1:02:26 quran the problem is
1:02:29 with identifying contradictions and
1:02:31 inconsistencies
1:02:33 and what one has to do is they have to
1:02:34 know what a contradiction inconsistency
1:02:36 actually is
1:02:37 when the quran says you know
1:02:40 in chapter four if this was
1:02:48 many contradictions what is a
1:02:51 contradiction is something which is
1:02:53 irreconcilable it's completely
1:02:54 unreconciled you cannot reconcile it
1:02:57 and you can pick up like for example the
1:02:59 logic handbook
1:03:00 by uh halbach it's a it's a book
1:03:03 and there is definitions of what
1:03:05 contradictions are
1:03:06 and you'll find in it there's no way in
1:03:08 which for example this is a
1:03:09 propositional logic or whatever yeah but
1:03:11 it still applies to our context here and
1:03:13 he defines it
1:03:15 someone's obviously not muslim whatever
1:03:17 but this is the kind of book that they
1:03:19 probably read
1:03:20 in um undergraduate
1:03:23 philosophy courses contradiction is
1:03:25 something which there is no way
1:03:26 of harmonizing and there's no way of
1:03:28 trying reconciling
1:03:30 it and obviously something which is
1:03:32 apparently contradictory can
1:03:34 be not contradictory yeah so for
1:03:36 instance in this situation
1:03:38 the general the general ruling is that
1:03:41 you don't
1:03:42 marry polytheists but the the exception
1:03:45 only proves the rule it doesn't there's
1:03:47 most rules that exist out there whether
1:03:49 even mathematical or scientific or any
1:03:52 polite high there any actual principle
1:03:54 you're gonna find exceptions
1:03:56 and so that's why you have something
1:03:57 called and also
1:04:00 these are two terms that also is the uh
1:04:03 scholars of jurisprudence they put into
1:04:05 place because
1:04:07 we're talking and on on the flip side as
1:04:10 well
1:04:11 is something which is generic but then
1:04:12 you have something which is
1:04:14 which are very similar but different
1:04:16 terms which define the specific
1:04:18 exception for those things
1:04:20 so what you've defined is okay the quran
1:04:24 says
1:04:38 and even if you like her but then
1:04:41 it's almighty that it says that you can
1:04:43 marry these so that's the exception you
1:04:44 can marry jews and christians
1:04:45 that is the exception for men that is
1:04:48 the exception not for women women cannot
1:04:49 marry jews and christians
1:04:51 but men can marry jews and christians
1:04:53 okay some scholars say today this
1:04:55 doesn't apply because of the issues
1:04:58 said and so on and so forth and some
1:05:00 discussions that's
1:05:01 aside the point but from a consistency
1:05:04 perspective there's no contradiction
1:05:05 yeah because it can be harmonized when
1:05:08 we talk about generalities and
1:05:09 specificities yeah sorry i'm gonna
1:05:11 uh just move on from there just simply
1:05:13 because
1:05:15 we have a lot of people uh so brother
1:05:17 faisal
1:05:18 because we booted you out earlier i'm
1:05:20 just gonna
1:05:30 okay um so my question is regarding
1:05:32 human history more or less from
1:05:34 the islamic perspective there are
1:05:37 two texts from the hadith that kind of
1:05:41 leave me with some questions the first
1:05:43 one is regarding
1:05:44 a hadith that says that adam ali salam
1:05:47 when he was
1:05:48 created he was created 60 cubits tall
1:05:51 and even he used to interpret this as
1:05:54 meaning that he was 60 cubits tall when
1:05:57 he was on earth already and humans
1:05:59 declined in
1:06:00 height since then
1:06:03 the other point is in regards to the
1:06:07 hadith that describe the amount of time
1:06:11 between prophets
1:06:12 there are certain hadith which talk
1:06:15 about
1:06:16 10 generations being between uh adam and
1:06:19 no
1:06:19 and another anihim salam and another
1:06:22 hadith uh describing another ten
1:06:24 generations between
1:06:25 noor and ibrahim
1:06:28 and i find that a bit like uh confusing
1:06:31 uh when we look at human history uh from
1:06:33 a scientific
1:06:34 scientific perspective obviously and uh
1:06:37 yeah i
1:06:38 would really enjoy if you could comment
1:06:40 comments on that i'm actually
1:06:41 i'm actually gonna be writing something
1:06:43 on this but i'll give you a brief answer
1:06:45 inshallah um now in regards to
1:06:49 the um what was the first point that you
1:06:52 made
1:06:53 on the uh the height of adam islam
1:06:56 that's some
1:06:56 which i'm not going to address now
1:06:58 that's something which i want to write
1:06:59 about because that's something that
1:07:00 could easily go wrong
1:07:02 um we're going to make a video about
1:07:04 that as well
1:07:05 with the second point um i've covered
1:07:08 this a few times in the past but again
1:07:10 inshallah this is something i'm going to
1:07:11 be writing about
1:07:13 what it is that when we say human as
1:07:16 muslims
1:07:17 we simply mean bani adam that's what we
1:07:19 mean but when a scientist says human
1:07:22 they will include homo erectus homo
1:07:25 naladi denizovens
1:07:27 you know anything
1:07:30 within the you know anything hominid
1:07:33 they would they would just say
1:07:34 right this is a human so when it comes
1:07:37 to
1:07:37 us um humans from their perspective
1:07:41 we go back millions of years at least
1:07:43 two million years
1:07:44 right um hundreds of thousands
1:07:47 definitely our
1:07:48 species of human but from a islamic
1:07:51 quranic perspective
1:07:53 we believe in the creation of adam islam
1:07:56 being a
1:07:57 miraculous creation and the human beings
1:07:58 alive today being part of that
1:08:00 now prior to that or maybe at the same
1:08:03 time there were other
1:08:04 hominid type things that existed um
1:08:07 that's possible
1:08:08 um that's not that's not i mean there's
1:08:10 no textual evidence that goes against
1:08:13 that
1:08:13 but um why do we actually believe
1:08:17 that all of human beings today are
1:08:20 actually creations and they're not part
1:08:22 of the same
1:08:23 line of humans from the perspective
1:08:25 assigned to speak about
1:08:26 is because we believe in the miracle of
1:08:28 adam islam
1:08:30 and the miracle of adam islam as allah
1:08:32 says in the quran is like that of
1:08:34 isa so we say as muslims
1:08:38 and i've covered this in my debate with
1:08:40 aaron and a few other times as well
1:08:42 we say okay homo erectus these other
1:08:45 things they existed
1:08:46 but we say that our lineage begins with
1:08:49 adam al-islam
1:08:50 what was the exact time again that's
1:08:52 something
1:08:53 which um i i believe there is some work
1:08:57 which has been done
1:08:58 done on this i don't think it's
1:08:59 sufficient enough
1:09:01 yet and that's something inshallah that
1:09:03 i'm looking to develop as well
1:09:05 but i'm not going to give you a longer
1:09:07 answer than that because that's usually
1:09:08 the way i
1:09:09 add something to this uh there are some
1:09:11 just on both of the things that you've
1:09:13 mentioned
1:09:13 um uh in terms of the if you're taking
1:09:17 the view that was on this earth
1:09:18 there are some rewards that say it was
1:09:20 in the heaven by the way
1:09:23 now because we're doing a video on this
1:09:25 i want to save that to the video that
1:09:27 we're going to do i'm going to put on
1:09:28 sapient thoughts
1:09:29 um what i what i found in regards to
1:09:31 this at least to the issue of the height
1:09:33 right is that
1:09:34 ibn used to interpret this hadith in a
1:09:37 different way
1:09:39 which might be interesting to you just
1:09:40 for your research
1:09:42 i have discussed this issue with farid
1:09:43 once
1:09:45 quite some time ago uh so that might be
1:09:47 interesting to you just so
1:09:49 but i don't remember how he i i remember
1:09:51 actually seeing it
1:09:53 with in it that he is
1:09:56 60 cubits and then it says something
1:09:58 like this
1:10:00 where allah created him into heaven and
1:10:01 i'll have to check this because if this
1:10:03 is the case and
1:10:04 and this is where i have to double check
1:10:05 it before i give you a an answer of the
1:10:07 riweia
1:10:08 uh and i have to take it to the people
1:10:10 of hadith and see if this is checking up
1:10:12 or not
1:10:13 uh if this is the case then obviously it
1:10:14 solves the issue completely because
1:10:16 we know that the parameters in heaven
1:10:19 are completely different to the
1:10:20 primaries on the earth
1:10:21 so that would be one way but the other
1:10:22 and the other uh instance that you
1:10:24 mentioned here
1:10:27 about between north
1:10:36 we have something in the quran actually
1:10:38 and i just
1:10:39 pulled it out because i remember that
1:10:42 make sure i get that verse
1:10:43 so this is in chapter number 25 verse
1:10:47 number 37
1:10:57 and then says and this is the crucial
1:10:59 part
1:11:09 and the dwellers and many generations in
1:11:13 between now
1:11:13 obviously in the arabic is
1:11:17 um is defined in a certain way so it's
1:11:20 actually more than
1:11:21 uh a certain number i believe it's more
1:11:23 than ten i believe it is more than ten
1:11:25 it could be ten or more could be nine or
1:11:26 more i think there was a different
1:11:27 opinion
1:11:28 but that's that is the extent of it
1:11:30 that's the strongest thing that we have
1:11:32 from from noah because here if you look
1:11:35 at the verse is what he was saying right
1:11:37 look at verse number 37 37 it says
1:11:41 so we have noah lemma
1:11:48 and we made them for the people
1:12:07 is referring to between noah and the
1:12:09 mood and adam
1:12:10 we have more than uh 10 generations
1:12:14 in terms of the the uh the wayat that
1:12:17 you may have
1:12:19 i don't know what the everywhere you
1:12:21 might have but obviously between adam
1:12:23 and noah i don't think there's anything
1:12:24 authentic uh yeah i also heard that this
1:12:27 hadith
1:12:28 might have some weakness in it yeah i
1:12:30 don't think between
1:12:31 and there's anything authentic from what
1:12:34 from the
1:12:35 once again i have to do the research
1:12:36 again but from what i remember from adam
1:12:39 until now there's nothing authentic and
1:12:41 so
1:12:42 usually what people take is they take
1:12:44 and i remember this because i was
1:12:45 reading in
1:12:49 and when he starts talking about the
1:12:51 prophets he starts saying
1:12:52 that noah the son of this person the son
1:12:55 of this person
1:12:56 and he uses the bible now why would he
1:12:58 use the bible
1:12:59 if there was a ruaya that was it would
1:13:02 make no sense to me so
1:13:03 if he's using the israelite that would
1:13:06 for me be an indication that he's trying
1:13:07 to fill in gaps
1:13:08 so i don't know of anything
1:13:11 but i don't know of anything authentic
1:13:13 between adam
1:13:15 and noah and this is this is the major
1:13:18 bone of contention
1:13:19 uh we don't know when adam was but we
1:13:22 know that he was a miraculous creation
1:13:23 and one more thing i want to add and
1:13:24 this is something i thought linda lucy
1:13:25 actually said
1:13:26 and i think it was a beautiful way of
1:13:28 the whole like um
1:13:29 darwinian thing with the whole evolution
1:13:31 thing really being put into perspective
1:13:32 and kind of adds to what you were saying
1:13:34 he said look uh i'm gonna give him
1:13:38 credit for this because he said this and
1:13:39 when he said it was like
1:13:40 the penny dropped the light was
1:13:41 beautiful it was a beautiful way to i
1:13:43 have to give him the credit for it
1:13:45 he said look you know islam yeah
1:13:49 you know he he had a clay bird and then
1:13:51 he blew into it and he made it
1:13:53 into a live bird do you know this
1:13:58 okay now that bird that he blew into
1:14:04 if we were now that that bird that was
1:14:06 once clay and then he blew
1:14:08 the raw or this or the
1:14:13 but he blew into it and it became an
1:14:15 actual bird
1:14:17 that bird if we had it the living
1:14:19 specimen of the bird and we dissected it
1:14:21 in whatever
1:14:22 and we looked at it would we be able to
1:14:23 classify it yeah we would be able to
1:14:25 classify it
1:14:27 in terms of what was it a pigeon what i
1:14:29 miss in this family and that family
1:14:30 whatever but in the real in reality is
1:14:32 it has a independent origin it was
1:14:34 spontaneously created by allah
1:14:36 yeah through whom through through isa
1:14:40 yeah okay so what's if this is in the
1:14:42 quran already and it's talking about
1:14:45 uh spontaneous creation from allah
1:14:48 of a bird that would have been
1:14:50 classified in a family tree with other
1:14:51 birds
1:14:54 you could say you could say that the
1:14:56 same thing with the human being
1:14:58 yes you could be able to classify a
1:14:59 human being as being a uh
1:15:01 hominid and this and that and whatever
1:15:02 primate and
1:15:04 whatever the technical terms are you'll
1:15:05 you'll know more than i do i don't want
1:15:06 to
1:15:07 say something wrong if
1:15:15 just like we're able to classify the
1:15:16 bird we believe look at the creation
1:15:19 story of adam
1:15:20 it's a miraculous story he was created
1:15:22 in heaven he was this
1:15:23 big and then he was sent to the yani
1:15:26 look at the uh
1:15:28 the black stone once again if you pull
1:15:30 out the black stone from the kaaba
1:15:32 will you be able to put it under a
1:15:34 microscope and see some minerals
1:15:36 yeah it it'll fit certain things they're
1:15:38 like okay this is this and whatever
1:15:39 yani but the truth of the matter is this
1:15:41 black stone came from heaven we believe
1:15:43 and another way of thinking about it and
1:15:45 this is a beautiful i mean he gave the
1:15:47 example of the word
1:15:48 many years ago sheikh abdul rahim green
1:15:50 was asked this question and he gave the
1:15:52 example
1:15:52 isa he said if you took out the genetics
1:15:54 of isa al-salam
1:15:56 you would say he is the father he is the
1:15:57 mother he is this his that but we know
1:15:59 he had no fathers
1:16:00 brilliant and allah says in the quran
1:16:02 the similitude of issa is like adam
1:16:04 yes now it's interesting that new
1:16:05 atheists hate both of them
1:16:07 they're normally ex-christians and they
1:16:10 darwinists right so they don't believe
1:16:11 in adam either
1:16:12 so um the the affirmation
1:16:16 um in terms of the miraculousness of
1:16:18 adam
1:16:19 islam and isa al-islam is is about their
1:16:22 independent origin like it wasn't like
1:16:25 you know they were completely
1:16:26 uh a natural part of the process and
1:16:28 this is why
1:16:29 this is exactly why one point cannot be
1:16:33 missed out
1:16:34 now i don't usually recommend certain
1:16:36 books on evolution because what
1:16:37 ends up happening is if you just give
1:16:39 people here go read this book on
1:16:40 evolution
1:16:41 then they come back a bit more confused
1:16:43 because they don't know to refute it and
1:16:45 you know you've just thrown me out there
1:16:47 but there's some really really good
1:16:48 books
1:16:48 philip johnson's book darwin on trial
1:16:51 in that book and it's old it's like 25
1:16:54 years old now
1:16:55 he makes the argument the fundamental
1:16:57 problem between darwinis and theists
1:17:01 is not human chimp ancestry is not
1:17:03 genetics anatomy psychology linguistics
1:17:06 is none of that fossil record
1:17:08 it is theism or naturalism
1:17:12 because if you come with a lens of
1:17:13 theism adamic
1:17:15 creation is possible but if you come
1:17:17 with a lens of naturalism
1:17:19 methodological naturalism a priori
1:17:22 meaning before evidence
1:17:24 it's impossible that adam al-islam
1:17:27 existed
1:17:27 so it's not the case that darwinists
1:17:30 have great evidence and it's all about
1:17:32 evidence no
1:17:33 the very lens of naturalism from which
1:17:35 they start the scientific journey
1:17:37 it rules out adam islam it rules out any
1:17:40 of these things
1:17:41 and what's beautiful about this is
1:17:43 thomas negro recently recently as in
1:17:45 just last
1:17:46 uh 10 years he published this book um
1:17:49 mind and cosmos and he openly states
1:17:53 that
1:17:53 you know the darwinian story is not just
1:17:57 evidence evidence evidence it actually
1:17:58 starts off with a
1:18:00 a priori philosophical lens and that
1:18:03 that obviously has implications so
1:18:06 that's extremely important to keep in
1:18:07 mind here as well when it comes to the
1:18:09 uh creation of adam al-islam but we've
1:18:11 covered this quite a bit
1:18:13 um let's move on to some other people
1:18:16 and i'm going to get hijab i'm a good
1:18:18 friend of hwasim i think you know which
1:18:20 one i'm talking about
1:18:22 was him from islamabad is the guy you
1:18:25 you have met
1:18:26 uh at the university there he helped you
1:18:28 with some stuff maybe you have forgotten
1:18:29 about him
1:18:31 his name again was him
1:18:34 oh yes yes yes of course mashaallah yeah
1:18:38 very good
1:18:46 so we're going to go to brother imran
1:18:49 next
1:18:51 and then
1:18:55 uh first of all i would like to thank
1:18:56 you for your work
1:18:58 it's really got me close to the dean and
1:19:01 my question it's it's kind of uh
1:19:04 relevant to
1:19:05 the last guy's question he asked about a
1:19:08 prophet adam al-salam's
1:19:10 height i'm asking about no hare sam's
1:19:14 age because we know from the quran it's
1:19:17 950 years and
1:19:20 the history suggests that our uh
1:19:24 age expectancy has gotten higher with
1:19:26 medicine
1:19:28 but you know 950 years doesn't really
1:19:31 make sense
1:19:32 okay just for what we know so i'll give
1:19:34 it to you
1:19:35 yeah there's a very simple way of
1:19:36 answering that our age expectancy has
1:19:39 gone
1:19:40 up in the last couple of hundred years
1:19:42 because
1:19:43 of uh medicine because of a lack of
1:19:46 warfare more peaceful society so on and
1:19:49 so forth
1:19:50 but that says nothing about what would
1:19:52 have happened
1:19:53 uh what what what did happen much
1:19:56 earlier than that
1:19:57 so you have to remember the data is just
1:19:58 for the recent times now of course
1:20:00 scientists are just going to go by that
1:20:02 now when it comes to the fossil record
1:20:05 you know somebody can turn around and
1:20:06 say
1:20:06 well why why don't we have a situation
1:20:09 in which
1:20:09 we we have some fossils of humans who
1:20:13 uh lived for a very long time and why
1:20:15 don't we have
1:20:16 uh data for that the the important thing
1:20:19 to keep in mind is fossilization is
1:20:21 extremely rare
1:20:23 it is like lightning hitting a piece of
1:20:26 uh land it is so
1:20:29 rare that actually today um
1:20:32 weak and we can openly say this this is
1:20:34 uh stats according to the national
1:20:36 science foundation
1:20:39 99.999
1:20:40 [Music]
1:20:41 of species not organisms species
1:20:44 that ever existed on earth they no
1:20:47 longer exist
1:20:48 and we do not have their fossils we
1:20:49 don't have their dna we don't have the
1:20:51 slightest
1:20:52 idea of what they look like the whole
1:20:55 reason why the age of nua alayhis salaam
1:20:57 has become an issue of why people try to
1:21:00 use it as an issue
1:21:01 is because of the misunderstanding
1:21:05 of how good a fossil record would have
1:21:07 been
1:21:08 and that record should be able to give a
1:21:11 certain evidence
1:21:12 and it's not actually giving us that
1:21:14 evidence and the other thing to keep in
1:21:16 mind
1:21:17 is that um at the time of nualis salaam
1:21:20 we're talking about the early generation
1:21:22 of
1:21:22 of the adamic line that the human
1:21:25 population was very low
1:21:26 and so um if if it's the case that for
1:21:29 example
1:21:30 there are people alive today there are
1:21:32 billions
1:21:33 of people alive today who have you could
1:21:36 say [ __ ] type features
1:21:38 not billions uh hundreds hundreds of
1:21:39 millions [ __ ] type features you get
1:21:42 this
1:21:42 in um you know uh what's it called
1:21:46 uzbekistan in tajikistan
1:21:48 and of course mongolia certain parts of
1:21:50 china
1:21:51 and so we can find fossils and we can
1:21:53 say okay these are [ __ ] type people
1:21:55 right because there's there's so many of
1:21:58 them and obviously some are going to
1:21:59 fossilize
1:22:00 but when you have such an early
1:22:02 generation of the adamic line and the
1:22:04 population is quite low
1:22:06 then not only is fossilization rare the
1:22:09 chances for fossilization
1:22:11 in that demographic is going to be
1:22:15 it's going to compound uh the
1:22:17 unlikelihood
1:22:18 of of finding such fossils so what's
1:22:21 important to keep in mind here
1:22:23 is that understanding the um the way
1:22:26 that science works in terms of
1:22:28 fossilization basically paleontology
1:22:30 and and uh how imperfect the fossil
1:22:33 record is
1:22:34 that completely undermines the argument
1:22:36 that this is not possible
1:22:38 um because this whole idea that human
1:22:40 beings
1:22:41 were living very short lives until just
1:22:44 recently
1:22:45 again that has a whole bunch of
1:22:46 presuppositions and we can challenge it
1:22:47 in the way that
1:22:48 yeah moreover the quran doesn't say he
1:22:51 lived for 950 years it actually says
1:22:53 he's like he'd done dawah for nine so he
1:22:55 could have lived longer
1:22:56 could have been three thousand years he
1:22:57 says
1:23:03 you know we have certainly sent noah to
1:23:05 his people so he stayed in there
1:23:06 with them for a thousand years minus 50
1:23:09 which is 9.50
1:23:11 so that's him doing that but the fact
1:23:12 that allah mentions it and he doesn't
1:23:14 mention how long
1:23:16 um any other prophet i from my
1:23:19 quick scan yanni any other prophet
1:23:22 uh stayed in their people would suggest
1:23:26 to me that it's unusual
1:23:27 that it was something that allah may be
1:23:30 bestowed to him that he didn't bestow to
1:23:31 other prophets
1:23:32 which is an extremely long life because
1:23:34 of the fact that
1:23:35 there was maybe an early community and
1:23:37 this we're talking about before the
1:23:38 cradle of the earth was even
1:23:39 established we're talking before
1:23:41 mesopotamia we're talking before
1:23:42 civilization
1:23:43 um egyptian civilization existed so
1:23:45 we're talking about really early early
1:23:47 early
1:23:48 uh stuff we don't know when we actually
1:23:50 don't know when so the fact that that
1:23:51 was the case there would have been a
1:23:53 very
1:23:53 scarce population and maybe even a
1:23:55 centralized population
1:23:57 all of it probably in the middle east
1:23:58 what was referred to in historical terms
1:24:00 as the cradle of the earth and therefore
1:24:03 one person would have been sufficient
1:24:06 but they just needed a very long space
1:24:08 of time uh
1:24:10 so it's possible yes right and the fact
1:24:12 that by the way the fact that
1:24:14 noah he says something he says that
1:24:17 um
1:24:26 i can't forget the but he says that they
1:24:28 will not give birth to
1:24:30 anyone except for someone's believe
1:24:33 someone who's a transgressor or
1:24:36 yeah uh and a disbeliever so
1:24:39 the why does he say this uh it's very
1:24:42 unusual because not another prophet
1:24:43 talks about
1:24:44 them giving birth to other people so the
1:24:45 idea that he mentioned
1:24:47 that their their followers would give
1:24:49 birth to disbelievers
1:24:51 could be from experience because he's
1:24:52 seen generations he's seen all these
1:24:54 generations
1:24:55 he's done a sociological analysis a
1:24:58 longitudinal study
1:24:59 because he saw what is it
1:25:02 yeah yeah okay
1:25:24 i need to go pray uh now and i'm gonna
1:25:28 leave you guys in the safe hands of
1:25:29 of hijab so uh ibrah
1:25:32 then ibrahim no you don't need to do
1:25:35 anything you can just say next is
1:25:36 ibrahimo
1:25:37 and then they'll talk and then you say
1:25:39 next what's gonna do you don't do
1:25:40 anything but they're odd
1:25:41 oh they'll kill themselves okay yeah
1:25:45 all right all right
1:25:48 everyone how you doing
1:25:51 assalamu alaikum
1:25:55 okay so all right here's my question
1:26:01 in my area people are really
1:26:03 left-leaning
1:26:04 and of these kind of people there is a
1:26:05 muslim named mari turner she represents
1:26:08 oklahoma in the senate and identifies
1:26:10 gender-wise as a non-binary person
1:26:13 despite being a female
1:26:15 when i debate people now it usually
1:26:17 consists of liberals that believe in the
1:26:19 idea of a surplus of genders
1:26:21 my question to muhammad is knowing that
1:26:23 you deal with liberals often
1:26:25 is how should i islamically or generally
1:26:28 disprove the idea of more than two
1:26:30 genders
1:26:32 well i mean we believe in intersex we
1:26:34 don't have an issue with um
1:26:36 with that it's just for me my
1:26:38 interaction like for example i was in
1:26:40 the gender studies
1:26:40 um department uh for about a year in
1:26:43 sara's university and i remember having
1:26:45 a conversation with
1:26:47 with somebody and um and i had this
1:26:49 conversation i was uh
1:26:51 like we had seminars and obviously like
1:26:53 a lot of the people were there and
1:26:55 they're talking and stuff and
1:26:57 one person said to me she was obviously
1:26:59 like gender fluid or whatever she did
1:27:01 she believed that most of it was a
1:27:02 social construction
1:27:04 and she said um i believe that a penis
1:27:06 is a social construction
1:27:09 that's what she said to me i was like oh
1:27:10 is that what you believe she says yeah i
1:27:11 believe that
1:27:12 penis is social construction her peers
1:27:14 were like nodding along and this and
1:27:15 that
1:27:16 i was thinking okay so if you believe
1:27:18 that the
1:27:19 penis is a social construction i
1:27:22 remember that
1:27:24 actually i was like yeah so do you
1:27:25 believe rape is a social construction
1:27:29 and that's when the penny dropped
1:27:30 because if you start saying all these
1:27:31 things are social constructions
1:27:33 it opens up the pandora box of
1:27:35 ridiculousness
1:27:36 so you have to show them the extent to
1:27:38 which what they believe in
1:27:40 undermines like core values and certain
1:27:43 things that
1:27:44 they would probably believe in within
1:27:46 their framework of liberalism which is
1:27:47 in this case like racism
1:27:49 or sexism or uh rape or whatever it may
1:27:52 be
1:27:54 so you have to start and that's if you
1:27:57 watch
1:27:57 my i know it was a controversial
1:27:58 discussion but with the transgender
1:28:00 hijabi
1:28:01 i was trying to show that particular
1:28:03 transgender hijabi that
1:28:05 if everything is if biology becomes
1:28:07 socially constructed
1:28:09 then racism becomes a non-issue because
1:28:12 in as much the same way as you want to
1:28:14 say that there's two genders and that
1:28:15 they're socially constructed
1:28:18 we can say the same thing about race and
1:28:20 once we do that then we eliminate racism
1:28:22 because there's no such thing as racism
1:28:23 if there's no such thing as race
1:28:25 and it's from from those kinds of
1:28:29 you need to establish from them what
1:28:30 they accept as socially constructed and
1:28:32 what they accept is
1:28:33 objectively true and whatever they
1:28:35 accept or socially constructed
1:28:37 show them and you have to find out if
1:28:39 it's raised if it's if it's gender
1:28:41 whatever it show them that
1:28:42 how they believing in that causes more
1:28:44 problems for them
1:28:45 than it causes solutions in in much the
1:28:48 same way as i've kind of tried to show
1:28:50 right now so i would go down that route
1:28:52 here at bremer does that make sense
1:28:55 yeah that makes sense and even in my
1:28:56 civics class they're trying to teach us
1:28:58 that race is a social construction
1:29:00 then tell them uh so you're saying
1:29:02 there's no such thing as racism and that
1:29:04 you know there was no such thing as
1:29:05 race-based slavery because if race is a
1:29:07 social construction does
1:29:08 it doesn't actually exist in the real
1:29:10 world and show them the ridiculousness
1:29:12 of that and
1:29:12 uh yeah i mean if you're if you're
1:29:15 saying that then there's no such thing
1:29:16 as oppression to black people there's no
1:29:18 such thing as this and so and then
1:29:19 they'll start seeing the ridiculousness
1:29:20 of it and you'll get some people on your
1:29:22 side
1:29:23 and uh and and then you can move on from
1:29:25 there bro
1:29:26 all right well thank you i talked to my
1:29:29 mom about you a lot
1:29:30 yeah tell her attempt to make that for
1:29:32 me as well okay i will
1:29:34 thank you for
1:29:49 very well now william lam craig once
1:29:51 made a video
1:29:52 um talking about why he thinks that the
1:29:54 muslim concept of god fails
1:29:56 he goes on to say that he thinks that
1:29:58 the muslim cons
1:30:00 fails because he thinks that the muslim
1:30:03 concept of god is not the greatest
1:30:04 conceivable being because he thinks that
1:30:06 the greatest conceivable being
1:30:08 would be an all-loving his love would be
1:30:10 unconditional impartial and universal
1:30:13 and then he goes on to say that the love
1:30:14 of the quran the god in the quran
1:30:16 is partial conditional and is not
1:30:18 universal as you have to earn it as a
1:30:21 muslim
1:30:22 um and then he goes on to say because
1:30:24 god does not love sinners in the quran
1:30:26 william lane craig ended the video by
1:30:28 saying that he thinks that the concept
1:30:30 of god
1:30:31 in islam is morally enact inadequate
1:30:35 um how would you respond to that well uh
1:30:37 we
1:30:38 we have a paper that's coming out and um
1:30:40 dr othman latif has written an extensive
1:30:43 paper and i think he's even doing an
1:30:44 accompanying seminar
1:30:46 so i will i would just defer it to that
1:30:48 because i feel like
1:30:50 um he's got william lane craig has the
1:30:53 excuse of being my
1:30:55 academic senior uh
1:30:58 in not engaging with me he can say that
1:31:00 i'm his academic senior i'm double his
1:31:02 age in fact he's more than double my age
1:31:03 the guys
1:31:05 so i know whatever i say now it's not
1:31:07 really going to get his attention
1:31:09 whereas dr uthman lovely is on the same
1:31:12 level as him really academically like
1:31:14 you know he's got the same kind of
1:31:15 credentials
1:31:16 maybe he has not been around for as long
1:31:18 but uh they're both kind of colleagues
1:31:20 and
1:31:21 they would be colleagues in the same
1:31:22 kind of so he i feel like
1:31:24 that kind of alleviates him from being
1:31:26 able to make uh excuses for
1:31:28 engaging with that kind of uh polemic so
1:31:31 i want to defer that
1:31:33 to i want to defer that to dr athman
1:31:35 latiff's uh
1:31:36 his his seminar and his accompanying
1:31:39 paper which is
1:31:41 being reviewed now and he's actually
1:31:43 going to be a
1:31:44 complete dismantling of william lynn
1:31:46 craig's uh
1:31:47 but if you want to watch something for
1:31:48 the f for the night time or tomorrow or
1:31:50 something like this
1:31:52 then uh you can see that the podcast
1:31:54 i've done hamza sauces because we cook
1:31:55 about
1:31:56 actually in
1:31:59 [Music]
1:32:10 assalamualaikum
1:32:16 uh so my question you're probably tired
1:32:19 of hearing this already
1:32:20 you've heard this a lot but i have a
1:32:23 question concerning philosophy
1:32:25 right because
1:32:28 i want to go into because you guys use
1:32:30 philosophy for the purposes of
1:32:32 refuting yeah right
1:32:36 but there's always risks to using it
1:32:39 right as we've seen throughout
1:32:41 islamic history yes so
1:32:44 i would like an explanation
1:32:47 as to how do we avoid like
1:32:51 assimilating the two for example you may
1:32:53 use an argument
1:32:54 to say so subor maybe use an argument
1:32:58 from an evolutionary perspective yeah
1:33:01 but
1:33:01 obviously this may be contrary to islam
1:33:05 so how do we like avoid the simulation
1:33:09 between philosophy ideas we use as
1:33:12 you know just for the sake of
1:33:13 argumentation i've got a really
1:33:14 beautiful quotation here from
1:33:16 ibn tamiya which is from inheritance i
1:33:19 haven't actually said this before come
1:33:20 on
1:33:26 he says that if you want to kind of
1:33:29 uh negate philosophy altogether
1:33:33 or if you want to affirm all of it then
1:33:35 either of those two approaches are not
1:33:36 possible
1:33:37 yeah he says
1:33:45 no it's not one particular it's not like
1:33:47 one school of thought
1:33:53 i'm gonna share it right now for the
1:33:55 arabic freaking audiences
1:33:56 and they can uh hopefully
1:34:00 because a lot of people have
1:34:03 they think they argue on lines and
1:34:06 they get these kind of quotations from
1:34:10 share five translations uh
1:34:13 i'm gonna tweet this i put it on twitter
1:34:16 okay it's very
1:34:19 because is that right
1:34:22 yeah it's fine thank you very much
1:34:29 next we go to usman
1:34:33 can you hear me yes we can hang you how
1:34:36 are you doing
1:34:40 for your time um my question is um
1:34:44 considering the pandemic and the
1:34:48 um what's been going on the past year
1:34:50 bearing that in mind
1:34:51 like overnight my family a large segment
1:34:54 of my family a lot of muslims i know
1:34:56 some of them who actually grounded
1:34:57 within our tradition have become
1:35:00 conspiracy theorists
1:35:02 and i just wanted to ask that to what
1:35:04 extent
1:35:05 uh like principles or souls that we have
1:35:07 within the islamic tradition
1:35:09 such as um following following
1:35:12 the scholars people that have the
1:35:14 knowledge and following the consensus so
1:35:16 not just scholars but
1:35:18 following the consensus and
1:35:21 not questioning people's integrity
1:35:24 like having such severe skepticism where
1:35:26 you think everybody's evil
1:35:28 and doubting the integrity and these
1:35:31 kind of principles to what extent should
1:35:33 we apply these
1:35:34 principles to basically all other
1:35:36 aspects of our lives
1:35:38 yeah so brother osman i would say that
1:35:39 i'm sorry that question we can't answer
1:35:42 because it's not relevant to our remit
1:35:44 because we have a lot of questions in
1:35:45 regards to doubts about islam
1:35:47 uh but this is something that maybe you
1:35:49 can send to hijab on his instagram and
1:35:51 he can answer it
1:35:52 if you want but it's not something
1:35:55 relevant to the live stream so i won't
1:35:56 like i don't want to address that
1:36:00 okay okay
1:36:04 would you would you like to ask a
1:36:06 different question about doubt
1:36:08 and uh
1:36:11 the no to be honest the only other
1:36:13 question i would have
1:36:15 if within the same remit was for example
1:36:17 um
1:36:18 how do we understand that when adam ali
1:36:20 islam
1:36:21 or humanity comes from him then how do
1:36:24 we understand how
1:36:26 we claim so many from just two like how
1:36:29 did they
1:36:31 basically have children and have more
1:36:33 children within
1:36:34 the same family union well within
1:36:38 uh within the narrations that we have we
1:36:41 we know that it was a case of uh the
1:36:45 children of adam alayhis salaam
1:36:46 uh i believe it's the case that you had
1:36:49 two twins and two twin
1:36:51 and then one from uh one married the
1:36:54 other
1:36:54 i don't remember the i don't know if
1:36:56 there was a narration on that i think
1:36:58 that's what people
1:36:59 um they inferred from it but it was it
1:37:02 it was uh because remember their moral
1:37:04 variables are different because
1:37:06 morality or from an islamic perspective
1:37:09 is objective so
1:37:11 under a moral uh moral variable like
1:37:15 right now in the uk
1:37:17 pork eating pork is haram right or a
1:37:20 muslim
1:37:21 however if i was starving in a desert
1:37:23 then eating pork would be hello
1:37:25 so uh the classic islamic uh
1:37:29 narrative on this um and i i don't
1:37:32 believe there's
1:37:33 any disagreement in terms of muslim
1:37:35 scholarly opinion on this
1:37:37 was that this was something that the
1:37:39 children of adam al-islam intermarried
1:37:42 that's that's the standard line that's
1:37:44 always
1:37:45 actually been accepted i don't know of
1:37:48 any difference in opinion and then
1:37:50 how did they actually from such a small
1:37:53 number
1:37:54 become so large um that's just
1:37:57 you know survival reproduction over a
1:37:59 long period of time in fact
1:38:01 today um if we look at something like
1:38:04 the children of kangaskhan you know
1:38:06 there's there's literally tens of
1:38:07 millions of people
1:38:09 exactly yeah but how people can spot and
1:38:13 also i just want you to say something
1:38:14 else as well
1:38:15 you know in a colony uh and i know
1:38:18 hijabi and i love this
1:38:20 in a colony all of the
1:38:23 ants are actually puddling they will
1:38:26 have the same
1:38:27 all of them right so you know this whole
1:38:29 idea of oh how can there be so many
1:38:31 and how could they start off and how
1:38:33 could they all be sibling
1:38:34 well we have ants and your colonies and
1:38:37 this is exactly what takes place
1:38:39 in nature it's it's not i mean it's not
1:38:43 a uh
1:38:44 it's not inconceivable
1:38:47 um and obviously even from a
1:38:49 methodological naturalistic point of
1:38:51 view which i
1:38:52 spoke about earlier they they'll have to
1:38:55 come to a similar solvent
1:38:59 you know because everything goes back to
1:39:01 simplicity right so you know small
1:39:03 numbers becoming into large numbers
1:39:05 um and yeah that's the way i'd address
1:39:08 your question
1:39:10 the other
1:39:21 um so let's go to brother
1:39:48 so he was almost convinced about a lot
1:39:49 of things a lot of answers
1:39:55 you're very choppy it's very hard to
1:39:58 understand what you're saying
1:39:59 okay
1:40:03 can i can i i'm just going to remove you
1:40:05 and re-add you yeah
1:40:08 okay can you speak
1:40:15 can you hear us yes uh i can hear you
1:40:17 but i think my voice is not here for you
1:40:19 right
1:40:20 no it's it's a little bit choppy maybe
1:40:23 if you i can ah
1:40:23 ask you a question but ask a bit slower
1:40:26 because you're you're speaking quite
1:40:27 fast and you couldn't understand you
1:40:29 okay so my question is uh
1:40:32 any just like ask me a question and also
1:40:35 like sending me a documentary
1:40:37 um okay can i write the question over
1:40:39 here in the in the chat box over here
1:40:41 yeah that'll be better now
1:40:44 the chat box is right
1:40:49 sorry justice right in the chat yeah
1:40:51 that's the way
1:40:52 okay okay okay so let's go to
1:40:56 brother hani and when we get siroshi's
1:40:59 question
1:40:59 we will address that as well inshallah
1:41:06 brother honey
1:41:10 he needs a scooby snack so he's gone
1:41:14 uh let's go to brother jawad
1:41:21 so i have a question about following
1:41:25 school of thought and i joined this i
1:41:27 just saw this
1:41:30 this broadcast so i don't know the topic
1:41:32 but i had a question about
1:41:34 following school of thought that's not
1:41:36 that's not within the remake of this
1:41:37 podcast where with this live stream
1:41:40 we're speaking about doubts about islam
1:41:42 and if anybody has a question but
1:41:44 about mudhubs a general islamic question
1:41:46 is not something we answer
1:41:49 okay so can i ask another question
1:41:51 instead of it
1:41:53 yeah at that point you can ask another
1:41:54 question
1:41:58 yeah my second question was how to what
1:42:01 extent
1:42:01 a normal muslim who is not
1:42:04 a full-time daughter who has not done
1:42:09 his time to learn the competitive
1:42:11 religion to engage with
1:42:13 non-muslims especially living in us
1:42:16 to what extent we should engage with
1:42:20 christians especially because that's the
1:42:22 bigger population
1:42:24 where we actually do the more damage
1:42:27 then actually put forward the right
1:42:32 islam in front of them but when you talk
1:42:34 to co-workers
1:42:36 yeah so brother i i would i would answer
1:42:38 this question quite briefly because it's
1:42:40 a very common question the first thing
1:42:42 is that you should obviously gain
1:42:44 knowledge
1:42:44 and it's not the case that um we don't
1:42:48 have enough time for it
1:42:49 or we can't and everybody's capable of
1:42:52 it and if anything's important then you
1:42:53 get it done
1:42:54 the other thing is that the prophet
1:42:56 sallam said convey from me even if it's
1:42:58 one verse
1:42:58 so you may not need to get into a deep
1:43:01 theological discussion
1:43:02 with a christian about the trinity but
1:43:04 at least you can share with them
1:43:06 a few quranic verses give them a free
1:43:09 free
1:43:09 booklets pamphlets whatever it is every
1:43:12 muslim has a duty upon them
1:43:14 to uh when they get the opportunity that
1:43:18 if people want to know about islam that
1:43:19 they should speak to them and even if
1:43:20 they don't want to know about islam they
1:43:22 should try to create that um
1:43:24 thing uh that atmosphere and i would say
1:43:27 uh don't worry too much about you know
1:43:30 um
1:43:31 i need to have an extraordinary level of
1:43:33 knowledge to actually give dawa aira
1:43:36 um actually has a very good basic tower
1:43:38 training course that you can attend
1:43:40 um and we've just updated it um and once
1:43:43 you go through it you'll be able to
1:43:44 easily speak to a christian a jewish
1:43:46 person
1:43:47 uh or whoever else is out there
1:43:49 inshallah
1:43:50 thank you oh sorry i've removed him a
1:43:53 bit quick
1:43:54 uh jazakallah brother jawad
1:43:57 for joining us okay next is somebody
1:44:01 called
1:44:02 honey honey can you um
1:44:06 can you hear us now hello
1:44:09 sam lakum brother hear me yes we can
1:44:15 i guess i just have a question
1:44:29 sorry brother honey uh your audio
1:44:32 was not good uh we're just making room
1:44:35 for the people brother ryan
1:44:38 actually before ryan there's another
1:44:41 brother called brother sorry i need to
1:44:42 add him first
1:44:44 there's a brother called brother stanley
1:44:47 can you guys hear me welcome
1:44:48 yes we can um and just one thing deep uh
1:44:52 but i think you kicked him out of the
1:44:53 room i don't think he can type his
1:44:55 question
1:44:55 but just getting to my question so
1:44:58 uh jazakallah for taking the time uh to
1:45:01 answer
1:45:02 um just going back to the comments you
1:45:04 had about the scientific miracle i mean
1:45:05 just like yourself
1:45:06 i grew up you know watching dr zakir
1:45:08 naik and um
1:45:09 you know reading the books you know and
1:45:11 i and
1:45:12 recently you know i came across
1:45:18 and everyone else's and you know it's
1:45:20 convinced me otherwise that we shouldn't
1:45:21 be looking for conviction through
1:45:23 scientific miracles of the quran but the
1:45:25 underlying principle is that
1:45:27 we as muslims are looking for that
1:45:28 conviction right so
1:45:30 because we uh subhanallah we have a lot
1:45:32 of profound things that we believe in
1:45:34 like you know the miracle birth of adam
1:45:36 salaam isaac
1:45:38 and all the things that brothers have
1:45:39 brought up today so when people
1:45:42 the conviction in all of that is rooted
1:45:45 in
1:45:46 what people say the quran the miraculous
1:45:48 nature of the quran
1:45:49 so what i just kind of what i've been
1:45:51 trying to do for the last little while
1:45:53 and you know i've been browsing sapience
1:45:54 institute and all these other videos
1:45:56 is um i am absolutely convinced of the
1:45:59 quran but how do we
1:46:00 further build on that conviction like
1:46:02 what is it that we must do to go like
1:46:04 this this book this upon this miracle
1:46:07 that we have is
1:46:08 no doubt the miracle and i know it's a
1:46:10 weird complicated question but i just
1:46:11 wanted to understand what one could do
1:46:14 i mean there's probably the intellectual
1:46:15 arguments we've got a book called the
1:46:17 eternal challenge
1:46:18 and that summarizes the arguments quite
1:46:20 well um
1:46:22 but i would say it's not just about
1:46:25 the intellectual stuff that definitely
1:46:28 that will take you to
1:46:29 uh the point that you know islam is true
1:46:32 but it will not take you to the point of
1:46:35 making islam
1:46:37 the absolute proof in your life and
1:46:40 and you want to live i mean something
1:46:42 can be true but it doesn't change you it
1:46:43 doesn't impact you it doesn't
1:46:46 change your very dna and that is simply
1:46:49 the worship of allah
1:46:50 which does that so acting upon islam
1:46:52 living islam
1:46:54 in fact some people skip their
1:46:55 intellectual journey entirely
1:46:57 and just try to worship a lot when they
1:47:01 reach
1:47:02 the same level that somebody that first
1:47:04 uses the intellect
1:47:05 and then submits to allah yeah
1:47:09 it just i just if i just refer uh
1:47:13 brother or um to job um so like i
1:47:16 watched one of your podcasts where you
1:47:17 said that um
1:47:19 you know you went on his journey to go
1:47:21 and study the quran and
1:47:23 learn the quran and then you said you
1:47:25 were absolutely confused you said if
1:47:26 anyone gives you the quran you would
1:47:27 have believed
1:47:28 that person just because of how you
1:47:30 convinced you of the quran
1:47:31 so i mean everyone's journey could be
1:47:34 different but i just wanted to
1:47:35 understand
1:47:35 just advice with brothers in general
1:47:37 what could they do to
1:47:38 increase that conviction of the quran
1:47:40 inshallah yeah i think you know
1:47:42 you start off with talking about the
1:47:43 scientific stuff we don't we don't
1:47:45 negate the fact that los pantara speaks
1:47:47 about
1:47:48 naturalistic phenomena and we believe
1:47:50 that our last parent has put in a way
1:47:52 which will be con
1:47:53 like facilitative for seventh century
1:47:56 audiences all the way up to 21st century
1:47:57 audiences
1:47:59 uh and that that in itself is them if
1:48:01 there's going to be anything
1:48:02 that relates to naturalistic phenomena
1:48:04 that we want to call the miracle
1:48:06 it's that situation is that propensity
1:48:08 to facilitate for all those generations
1:48:10 in between
1:48:11 right and and in the future so that's
1:48:14 the first thing the sec
1:48:15 the second thing is and by the way with
1:48:17 this
1:48:18 i believe that islam as an ancient
1:48:20 religion is unique in this
1:48:22 because you know if you look at the
1:48:24 midrash which is the ancient
1:48:26 uh jewish commentaries of the old
1:48:28 testament for example
1:48:29 and even if you look at patristic exeter
1:48:31 jesus is of the of the new testament and
1:48:33 the old testament because some of the
1:48:35 church fathers and ecclesiastic writers
1:48:38 like
1:48:39 origin of alexandria and uh others they
1:48:42 they actually wrote like
1:48:43 uh augustine like um an exegesis one
1:48:47 on genesis uh many of them did right
1:48:50 and if you look at what they how they
1:48:52 interact with both them and the old
1:48:54 testament there's
1:48:55 basically no interpretation just to take
1:48:57 one example like
1:48:59 the flatness of the earth that was
1:49:00 consensus i mean
1:49:02 the real fraternity of the earth only
1:49:04 came about maybe from augustine's time
1:49:06 onward
1:49:07 because of aristotelian logic for
1:49:09 instance yeah and because of
1:49:10 aristotelian or greek influence it
1:49:12 wasn't
1:49:13 that anybody ever looked at any verse in
1:49:16 the quran
1:49:16 in the bible and said that that verse
1:49:18 indicates that the earth is wrong i
1:49:19 don't think there's anything like that
1:49:22 they believe it's round because of the
1:49:24 greek influence
1:49:26 so that's one thing we've had we have
1:49:27 precedent now when we say that
1:49:29 for example the cosmology that we
1:49:31 believe in today is a cosmopolitan
1:49:33 which is concurrent uh we have president
1:49:37 going all the way back to the salaf that
1:49:39 people saying
1:49:40 you know xyz about the the universe or
1:49:43 the earth or whatever it may be which
1:49:45 will be concurrent
1:49:46 with 21st century cosmological
1:49:47 understandings that is not afforded
1:49:50 yeah to other ancient texts so i think
1:49:53 that in itself is already a defining
1:49:55 thing so
1:49:56 we don't throw the baby out with a
1:49:58 pathway i think when it comes to
1:49:59 naturalistic stuff
1:50:00 and what with the scientific miracles
1:50:02 thing we just believe that the argument
1:50:04 has been framed incorrectly
1:50:05 yeah it couldn't have been known at the
1:50:07 time with this or that this these
1:50:08 phrases
1:50:09 have gotten us in trouble for the last
1:50:10 20 years because they are not
1:50:12 sophisticated from an academic
1:50:14 perspective um
1:50:16 right so that's number one number two in
1:50:18 terms of for me anyways personally like
1:50:20 when i started to memorize the quran and
1:50:21 read it and stuff i just started to
1:50:23 i know it sounds a bit weird but i
1:50:24 started number one
1:50:26 i started to listen into the flow of it
1:50:28 and stuff and when i compared it with
1:50:30 what i knew of arabic poetry and and
1:50:33 stuff like that another arabic speech
1:50:35 i just i don't sound ridiculous but
1:50:38 it was something like it was an
1:50:39 intuition that i knew this was
1:50:40 completely different but it was about
1:50:43 how do i measure that now quantitative
1:50:46 how do i put that into it so i started
1:50:48 reading books of
1:50:48 jazz and delaila and stuff like that in
1:50:50 arabic which is plenty
1:50:52 like the structures and now a lot of it
1:50:54 has been translated into english like
1:50:55 raymond farron with the structures
1:50:57 of scientific cohesion in arabic there's
1:50:59 one called uh
1:51:01 quran by sultan and stuff like that and
1:51:03 he's talking about how the quran is all
1:51:05 interlaced and perfectly like structured
1:51:07 and stuff despite
1:51:08 being piecemeal uh revelations like the
1:51:11 fact like for example i remember when i
1:51:13 back in the days i was i was memorizing
1:51:16 and i was i was just fighting and i
1:51:19 realized well every single a has the
1:51:20 word allah in it
1:51:22 and i was i found that as a revelation i
1:51:24 i looked at it myself and i thought this
1:51:26 is
1:51:26 unbelievable because in the middle of
1:51:28 that surah i was like
1:51:34 he surrounded them and he made them
1:51:36 forget the
1:51:37 mention of allah and it's not allah is
1:51:39 trying to get us to remember
1:51:41 do you know what i'm trying to say
1:51:42 because the shaytan is trying to get us
1:51:43 to forget and i'm thinking wow man
1:51:45 like this is a tourist speech and in
1:51:48 every single area because it was only
1:51:49 like maybe i don't know 40 years in that
1:51:51 surah
1:51:52 right every single as it's got the word
1:51:54 align and like how can you
1:51:55 program that into your oral
1:51:57 communication if you want
1:51:59 you're making all these arguments and
1:52:00 you're shifting from one subject to the
1:52:02 other and
1:52:03 and you're putting the word allah is
1:52:05 very very very difficult to do
1:52:07 and i realized these subtleties existed
1:52:10 jani
1:52:10 throughout the quran so then it was a
1:52:12 matter of trying to
1:52:14 to see who spoke about this in similar
1:52:16 terms
1:52:17 and i realized there was a rich
1:52:18 literature from all the way back
1:52:20 you know um from the festival like
1:52:23 in history he starts talking about this
1:52:25 as zamasu and his
1:52:26 kashaf he talks about this and
1:52:28 everyone's talking about this it's
1:52:30 like like live discussion about how this
1:52:33 the quran is the more jesus is how it's
1:52:35 uh
1:52:36 it's a miracle and i thought that
1:52:38 basically intellectually it's very very
1:52:39 satisfying for me anyway
1:52:41 oh josiah uh if i could just give one
1:52:43 quick feedback
1:52:44 um your savings institute videos the
1:52:46 ones you put out marshall they're great
1:52:48 i love them
1:52:49 but i have to listen to them on 0.5 0.75
1:52:52 speed because why shall you speak so
1:52:53 fast
1:52:56 if
1:53:01 yeah just for the benefit of everyone
1:53:03 watching and and if you could throw
1:53:04 sometimes some
1:53:05 visuals up on the screen just so it's
1:53:07 easy to follow the brothers because i
1:53:09 have to watch it multiple times and i've
1:53:10 read the comments to say the same thing
1:53:13 for your time you know um if i'll do
1:53:16 that
1:53:16 if that if you find that tough here i
1:53:18 tried reading hijab's book on feminism
1:53:21 and i had this hubris
1:53:25 i'll be able to understand this i looked
1:53:28 at it and he looked at me
1:53:29 and i was like yeah it's not wrong
1:53:34 i read a couple of your essays on
1:53:35 darwinian evolution
1:53:38 i was just watching uh brother sevier's
1:53:40 uh uh
1:53:41 webinar on darwinism last night martial
1:53:43 was really good
1:53:45 brilliant we also have the sapience
1:53:47 institute learning
1:53:48 um uh portal so you can also go there to
1:53:51 learn some stuff inshallah may allah
1:53:53 bless you brother
1:53:54 good for you thank you
1:53:57 okay next is um
1:54:00 brother josefa
1:54:04 as you know ryan brother varyan is next
1:54:08 uh
1:54:11 [Music]
1:54:13 uh are you aware of any good arguments
1:54:16 against deism uh
1:54:20 deism what do you
1:54:35 you know mashallah hijab can give you a
1:54:38 thorough answer on that
1:54:39 but just to sort of save time brother
1:54:42 bassam zawadi has actually published on
1:54:45 deism
1:54:46 and when i read it it was honestly the
1:54:49 best thing i have
1:54:50 ever seen i'm not even talking about
1:54:52 from a muslim really
1:54:53 even from like a christian or whatever
1:54:56 it's just something he's published on
1:54:59 academia.edu
1:55:00 i think it's the only thing that i've
1:55:02 read of his but
1:55:04 i mean that was the best reputation
1:55:07 okay so yeah i'll give you an argument
1:55:09 the argument that he was like
1:55:11 what we do in our goal rap is we speak
1:55:14 about how it's basically part of allah's
1:55:16 wisdom
1:55:17 that allah speaks to us and and he just
1:55:20 bassam just really puts that in an
1:55:22 academic way i'll say for the purposes
1:55:24 of the questioner
1:55:25 it's sufficient that the idea that allah
1:55:28 created everything and just left it to
1:55:31 run by itself
1:55:33 would basically mean allah is doing
1:55:34 something superfluous that there's no
1:55:36 meaning there's no
1:55:37 foresight there's no end goal and that's
1:55:40 obviously not part of perfection power
1:55:42 perfection would be
1:55:43 that you would you know do things for a
1:55:46 for a reason you wouldn't just you know
1:55:49 just um just do stuff
1:55:51 without um without any
1:55:54 um justification at all so that's what
1:55:57 we need to keep in mind when it comes to
1:55:59 deism
1:56:00 deism i believe is uh
1:56:03 actually quite popular it's a lot more
1:56:05 popular
1:56:06 than i think atheism i think atheists
1:56:08 are loud dias are not allowed but i
1:56:10 think there are
1:56:11 actually a lot of dias out there um
1:56:14 how do you address deism um
1:56:17 yeah i think what you said is right i
1:56:19 mean i think what you said is right
1:56:21 and obviously there's so many verses in
1:56:23 the quran that actually attack
1:56:25 deism um that allah has not
1:56:28 created this heaven and earth for play
1:56:30 and
1:56:31 amusement and if he wanted to he would
1:56:33 have taken
1:56:34 from him himself uh something to do for
1:56:38 idle time and so on
1:56:39 so these actually they've i always
1:56:42 believe that the verses of the quran are
1:56:43 the best
1:56:45 because when allah says that he created
1:56:47 heavens and earth
1:56:49 in in truth now if he's
1:56:53 he is the one who is meant to be
1:56:55 maintaining the
1:56:57 the cone or the the existence why would
1:57:00 he be
1:57:00 why would he be uh aloof to it like how
1:57:03 can you be
1:57:04 and this is actually kind of a paradox
1:57:06 if you're sustaining something or
1:57:08 maintaining it
1:57:09 it kind of disqualifies you from being
1:57:11 aloof from it
1:57:12 because yeah
1:57:16 if we can establish i think from the
1:57:18 most the best logical ways that we
1:57:20 establish that
1:57:21 allah or the necessary existence say
1:57:25 the necessary existence is um it's
1:57:28 pre-eternal and post-eternal and
1:57:30 they're unnecessary therefore everything
1:57:31 depends upon him
1:57:33 and so on all those things that we know
1:57:34 from the continuous argument
1:57:36 that the assumption is that everything
1:57:38 needs him in order to
1:57:40 continue and if everything needs him in
1:57:43 order to continue that means he is
1:57:45 by logical necessity uh
1:57:48 always pray always present in the uh
1:57:51 in the running of the universe so he's
1:57:53 he's not leaving the universe
1:57:55 yeah so the only exception that these
1:57:57 will have to make is for the human being
1:57:58 so allah is
1:57:59 maintaining everything uh and then
1:58:03 the idea is that the human being these
1:58:04 sentient creatures now
1:58:06 they they just left like that yeah which
1:58:08 for me would would be completely like
1:58:10 they would have to explain that why is
1:58:12 that the case that's a good point you're
1:58:14 putting owners on them yeah the owners
1:58:15 have to be on them because if
1:58:17 if this necessary exists if we get them
1:58:19 to a point of saying that everything
1:58:20 depends upon him and always
1:58:22 and that he's maintaining it and
1:58:23 sustaining it always then
1:58:26 the question is then he is involved
1:58:28 always and if he's always involved then
1:58:30 that's involvement his person is his
1:58:32 personality if you like
1:58:33 it's him being personally involved yeah
1:58:35 and so if he's
1:58:36 involved that he's personally involved
1:58:39 um
1:58:39 then this idea of deism already is like
1:58:42 90
1:58:42 god now you have to ask the question why
1:58:44 would the human being be the exception
1:58:46 to the rule of everything being
1:58:48 maintained how could the
1:58:49 yani how could the human being be an
1:58:51 exceptional and there's a beautiful
1:58:53 oh there's a beautiful a in the quran
1:58:54 man
1:58:56 which goes like this
1:58:59 which goes
1:59:07 yeah this is this is a like one such a
1:59:10 powerful like
1:59:10 we're talking about the expressions of
1:59:12 quran there's no refuge
1:59:15 and basically he's talking about these
1:59:16 three people oh yeah yeah yeah yeah
1:59:18 there are three people that were left
1:59:19 behind
1:59:20 yeah and then the earth was constricted
1:59:24 and then it says uh and then it says
1:59:27 this beautiful phrase which says that
1:59:30 they thought that there was no mel ja'a
1:59:32 there was no maljet there was no
1:59:34 um a refuge from allah except to him
1:59:37 to him yeah so they knew that there was
1:59:40 no management there was no refuge from
1:59:42 allah except for himself in other words
1:59:44 we are forced to be in a relationship
1:59:47 with allah
1:59:48 by the fact by virtue of the fact that
1:59:50 he created and is maintaining
1:59:51 and and there's no way we can go where
1:59:53 allah is not in control basically
1:59:55 if that's the case we're forced to be in
1:59:57 a relationship and the deism is uh
1:59:59 basically untenable from the angle yeah
2:00:01 absolutely absolutely it's a brother
2:00:04 joining us that was the exactly the
2:00:07 understanding i had i just want you to
2:00:09 inform me some academic paper
2:00:11 so i can check them thank you
2:00:15 yeah this paper definitely read that
2:00:17 inshallah
2:00:18 okay so um we also have
2:00:22 uh brother josefa
2:00:27 i just want to check is m kasper a
2:00:30 non-muslim because we want to give
2:00:32 non-muslims
2:00:35 okay i just saw the word casper so i
2:00:39 thought
2:00:42 maybe with mama duke casper i don't know
2:00:46 okay uh over to you
2:00:49 uh welcome to sapience institute live uh
2:00:53 what is your question
2:01:05 so i think in
2:01:09 that the mountains move how could we
2:01:13 uh scientifically explain that
2:01:17 mountains move or that which of us are
2:01:20 talking about
2:01:22 i don't really remember yeah
2:01:25 kind of that what the
2:01:29 the mountains move what at the mountains
2:01:36 are you referring to uh um allah is
2:01:38 referring to the day of judgment
2:01:41 yeah yeah yeah this is sort of
2:01:45 i think uh that's the only place where
2:01:47 people say this
2:01:48 well allah
2:02:05 the egyptian uh personality who
2:02:08 masha allah he done like uh
2:02:12 of the quran of the quran
2:02:16 he famously had he famously had the
2:02:18 belief that this was talking about
2:02:21 uh this dunya but from my before
2:02:24 when i looked into the masala i looked
2:02:27 into
2:02:28 and the majority of the alamat they
2:02:30 believe this is talking about the day of
2:02:31 judgment
2:02:33 um okay yeah
2:02:36 so it hasn't any regards to the
2:02:39 earth plates or anything if it was
2:02:42 talking about it
2:02:43 then it could be the case that is
2:02:45 talking about the rotations of the earth
2:02:47 because
2:02:47 in in effect yeah i mean there's
2:02:50 spinning around and the
2:02:51 mountains on it but i don't think this
2:02:52 is what it's talking about because the
2:02:53 presentation
2:02:55 doesn't go into detail about the
2:02:56 rotation of the earth
2:02:59 you know it's talking about you know in
2:03:00 the quran
2:03:03 you know he put on the earth these
2:03:06 mountains so that it doesn't shake
2:03:09 this is more the presentation of the
2:03:10 quran it's talking about
2:03:16 the outer crust of the earth more
2:03:19 more than the planet earth itself
2:03:23 that usually they have is that how could
2:03:24 we talking about well we know that
2:03:26 mountains uh don't do that they they
2:03:30 have an objection to that they say
2:03:32 mountains don't cause stability they
2:03:34 cause
2:03:35 uh they're called instability but the
2:03:36 truth of the matter is
2:03:38 i mean i was looking at the science of
2:03:40 this and it's a principle in geology
2:03:42 called i sophisy
2:03:43 um which is basically the idea that
2:03:47 it's talking about the ability of the uh
2:03:49 of of the mountains and so on
2:03:51 but the truth of the matter is isosceles
2:03:53 and its conceptions have changed
2:03:55 dramatically over the past hundred years
2:03:57 like uh from from the 1800s when this
2:04:00 guy
2:04:00 dutton wrote in and jolly and it's
2:04:03 changed over 100 years has cringed quite
2:04:05 a lot the truth of the matter we don't
2:04:06 know what would happen if the mountains
2:04:08 were taken out of their place
2:04:09 what was happening i mean what we know
2:04:11 is that
2:04:12 hello adam i'm not a geologist by the
2:04:14 way i mean it's a hula guard he wrote a
2:04:15 book on this
2:04:16 isosceles and so on you know he's a he's
2:04:18 to be fair he's a geologist
2:04:22 yeah he wrote a book like a 90 page
2:04:25 document on it and isosceles and so on
2:04:27 and when i was looking at some of the
2:04:28 books they were saying that when you
2:04:30 take out
2:04:30 galatians because they had this i um
2:04:32 when glaciers when uh ice glaciers they
2:04:34 melt yeah
2:04:36 and they think that when ice glaze is
2:04:37 not something called uplift takes place
2:04:40 which is basically like instability of
2:04:42 the
2:04:43 of the of that particular earth crust
2:04:46 and so
2:04:47 yeah i needed to kill him there but the
2:04:49 truth about us we don't know what
2:04:50 happened if you uproot mountains
2:04:52 the the quranic consumption is that if
2:04:54 you if you uproot a mountain
2:04:55 then there's going to be major
2:04:56 instability that's the definitely a
2:04:59 function of
2:04:59 because mountains were meant to be a
2:05:01 force for stability so if you uproot
2:05:03 them there's going to create a
2:05:04 huge uplift or something like that
2:05:10 [Music]
2:05:14 we've received a question and i really
2:05:15 thought hijab would be
2:05:17 best placed to use the you know
2:05:20 the the milsian um perspective
2:05:24 to to uh to address this so sapien seems
2:05:26 to do if atheists base their morality on
2:05:28 the harm principle
2:05:29 does that mean it's okay to sexually
2:05:31 molest a woman that's asleep if she
2:05:33 doesn't know what's going on
2:05:36 no i i think this is a bit crude like i
2:05:39 i think from a liberal perspective
2:05:40 that's
2:05:41 um you know if she doesn't know what's
2:05:43 going on
2:05:44 at the end of the day even liberals they
2:05:46 have like
2:05:48 uh principles that they have their red
2:05:50 lines and i i think this would be one of
2:05:52 them because
2:05:53 it would be it will be seen as obviously
2:05:55 the three things that they
2:05:56 um prioritize is wealth property
2:06:00 and liberty you know uh and so
2:06:03 this would be an infringement of
2:06:05 freedoms of that person who's asleep
2:06:07 uh that's liberalism this is asking
2:06:10 about the harm principle
2:06:12 and if atheists base their morality just
2:06:14 on the harm principle
2:06:15 no they don't just but yeah so they
2:06:16 don't understand that so if if we took
2:06:18 this question
2:06:20 yeah yeah it's not a good way to argue i
2:06:22 don't think okay
2:06:23 they don't they don't um just promise
2:06:26 you on that there's a whole
2:06:28 section of liberalism which talks about
2:06:29 contract law and consent is huge in
2:06:31 liberalism as well we shouldn't under
2:06:33 like uh underestimate that show that
2:06:36 part of it
2:06:36 brilliant all right next is
2:06:42 mirai
2:06:53 okay uh my question is uh regarding um
2:06:57 uh
2:06:58 the sharia in the bible um and i think
2:07:01 it's an important question because uh we
2:07:02 we tend to use and i find you guys also
2:07:05 using this
2:07:06 when uh making out to the christian
2:07:07 brothers and sisters so uh you know how
2:07:09 us as muslims right we use the quran
2:07:12 to as as the criteria of akida to
2:07:15 distinguish the truth and falsehood and
2:07:17 other scriptures
2:07:18 right like the bible for example but
2:07:20 when it comes and we us muslims believe
2:07:22 that
2:07:23 they remain the same for all of human
2:07:25 history
2:07:26 but the shariah changed right so when it
2:07:29 comes to
2:07:30 violent verses in the bible like for
2:07:31 example um burning your daughter a lie
2:07:33 like
2:07:33 burning the daughter's priest alive or
2:07:35 uh when moses uh musa
2:07:38 in the bible told told um told the
2:07:41 you know go kill uh kill the women and
2:07:43 take the
2:07:44 the girls and all this stuff how do we
2:07:47 act
2:07:47 what criteria do we use how do we
2:07:49 actually know that this is something
2:07:50 that was
2:07:51 fabricated or corrupted and not the
2:07:54 sharia at the time of bani israel from
2:07:56 allah
2:07:57 very good question if if it's in
2:08:00 contradiction of the quran
2:08:02 then his fabric we would believe it's
2:08:04 not something which is correct because
2:08:06 you know there is that injunction
2:08:12 you know do not believe them and do not
2:08:15 agree with them
2:08:17 uh yeah if something is not if something
2:08:20 the quran
2:08:20 has spoken about then remain agnostic
2:08:23 about i don't speak too much about it
2:08:24 and that's
2:08:25 i think a mistake sometimes we make like
2:08:27 for example on the issue of
2:08:28 a global flood we will jump into the
2:08:31 fact that we say nothing
2:08:32 biblical it's explicit but it's true in
2:08:35 the bible what if in the next 20 or 30
2:08:37 years
2:08:37 hundred years they found out that there
2:08:39 was a global flood
2:08:40 now everyone's going to say that we are
2:08:42 the quran is talking about a local club
2:08:43 and their
2:08:44 christians will start rejoicing but the
2:08:45 truth of the matter is
2:08:47 there's nothing clear in the quran and
2:08:49 you know what beautiful about that point
2:08:51 hijab
2:08:51 is that um you know
2:08:54 we sometimes go with the flow we go with
2:08:57 what's popular we go with
2:08:59 you know the narrative of the day but
2:09:00 even with this global flood which for
2:09:02 some
2:09:03 muslims it was like oh this seems a bit
2:09:06 difficult to try and articulate let's
2:09:09 just stick with the local one
2:09:11 archaeologically not archaeologically
2:09:13 from a uh
2:09:15 anthropology point of view we're
2:09:17 actually getting evidence
2:09:18 that various different human populations
2:09:21 which have not interacted
2:09:23 they all have this flood myth this seems
2:09:26 to be a
2:09:26 common thing i'm not sure if you know
2:09:28 about this organization
2:09:30 yeah just repeat repeated even in south
2:09:32 america you get this you get this idea
2:09:34 that there was a flood and it took out
2:09:36 people and people tell their children
2:09:38 and
2:09:38 there's this ancestral story of this
2:09:41 flood
2:09:42 and there's something there and from
2:09:49 sociological point of view it's bizarre
2:09:51 right from for them because
2:09:53 it doesn't make sense like why is this
2:09:55 repeated thing
2:09:56 coming up in many many times so i hope
2:09:58 that principle will help
2:10:00 you uh address these types of questions
2:10:01 yeah but but see that's the thing that
2:10:04 what you're talking about are the
2:10:05 israelites and the stories and
2:10:07 but i'm talking about the sharia laws
2:10:09 that are found in the bible like
2:10:11 uh like the like the uh
2:10:17 but the difference here is um you see
2:10:20 the sharia is different
2:10:21 but allah's paradigm is the same the
2:10:24 sunnah of allah is the same allah does
2:10:26 not do injustice to anyone so when allah
2:10:28 for example
2:10:29 alcohol say may have been allowed for
2:10:32 certain people
2:10:33 and not allowed in sharia hypothetically
2:10:35 say yeah when it comes to
2:10:37 does allah do injustice no it doesn't
2:10:39 matter what the sharia is for the
2:10:41 different different
2:10:42 generations allah doesn't do injustice
2:10:45 when it comes to
2:10:46 a situation like um so would allah have
2:10:50 allowed shirk
2:10:51 to be normal in in no because allah does
2:10:54 not allow
2:10:55 so the principles of allah that would
2:10:57 have been the same the sharia
2:10:58 and also one more thing to answer that
2:11:01 most of the allah of islam
2:11:03 with very few exceptions they believe
2:11:04 the asthma of the prophets
2:11:06 meaning that what does that mean
2:11:10 yeah meaning the infallibility of the
2:11:11 prophet so stories which say that
2:11:13 david he committed adultery or that lord
2:11:16 had text of his daughters
2:11:18 we would reject those because it goes
2:11:20 against our principle of asthma
2:11:22 it goes up against my principle of
2:11:24 infallibility because it's inconceivable
2:11:26 that
2:11:27 you know uh in without
2:11:30 without an necessity like whether
2:11:32 there's not going to be continuation of
2:11:33 generations like in the case of adam and
2:11:34 so on
2:11:35 that such things can be done by prophets
2:11:39 so that that's another way we can argue
2:11:42 that certain things
2:11:43 uh go against the sins of the prophet
2:11:45 who can we can safely say
2:11:47 that the prophet didn't commit
2:11:48 especially those major sins like
2:11:49 adultery and satan
2:11:51 would say that completely negate we
2:11:53 negate that even though there's nothing
2:11:54 uh directly quote uh
2:11:58 in opposition but we still uh reject
2:12:00 this so
2:12:01 in a nutshell i wouldn't go too deeply
2:12:03 into the jurisprudence because
2:12:05 the truth of the matter is what was
2:12:08 allowed and what wasn't allowed in
2:12:09 certain times in certain places
2:12:10 but for those things which are clearly
2:12:12 um
2:12:14 you know be merging the good name of our
2:12:16 prophet salallahu
2:12:29 [Music]
2:12:47 one group before a person another person
2:12:49 has done like a father
2:12:50 he's not going to be held to account for
2:12:51 what the fund has done so there's lots
2:12:53 of things that collide you can pull out
2:12:54 of the sharia that would negate a lot of
2:12:57 the biblical discourse basically
2:13:00 okay interesting just maybe you can
2:13:02 clarify this one point
2:13:03 maybe you can clarify on this one point
2:13:05 when you say that okay allah does not
2:13:06 deal injustice right
2:13:08 how do we know how do we know what was
2:13:10 the injustice at their time
2:13:12 you understand what i'm trying to say
2:13:13 yeah there is a great area there and
2:13:16 that's why we say that in terms of our
2:13:18 kida we can we can safely say allah
2:13:20 wouldn't allow
2:13:21 that so on and so forth uh like the
2:13:23 brother said
2:13:24 he intervened with that one soul should
2:13:28 not be held to account for what another
2:13:29 song has earned
2:13:30 that's another principle the asmr of the
2:13:32 prophets they follow the prophets and
2:13:34 those things which the quran
2:13:35 and all the sunnah have directly
2:13:37 rejected in terms of
2:13:39 uh narratives like for example
2:13:40 crucifixion of jesus or whatever it may
2:13:42 be
2:13:43 those four things will be enough to get
2:13:44 rid of like 70 or 80 percent of
2:13:46 the confusing narratives the the the
2:13:49 remaining 30
2:13:51 we have to we have to remain agnostic
2:13:57 do not believe them and do not uh and do
2:14:00 not agree with them
2:14:01 just stay just just stay quiet about it
2:14:03 basically
2:14:05 because it can come back and come back
2:14:07 to haunt you yeah i mean you
2:14:08 like you said it could be uh slavery
2:14:11 would have been allowed
2:14:12 someone's attacking the old testament by
2:14:14 slavery and maybe it was allowed at that
2:14:16 time for a certain period
2:14:17 we don't know we're a different kind of
2:14:20 indentured servitude allahu alam god
2:14:22 knows best
2:14:22 and so i would just remain a little bit
2:14:24 agnostic on these issues
2:14:27 okay
2:14:38 casper
2:14:52 um philosophy of science versus biology
2:14:56 and uh etc etc the chances of me going
2:14:58 to uni to study these things is very
2:15:00 very low i'm someone who's like you know
2:15:02 i'm eager to
2:15:03 critique exam darwinism etc
2:15:06 so how someone like me go about you know
2:15:08 research and studying and things like
2:15:09 that
2:15:11 well well i brought let me tell you
2:15:13 something like we live in a very special
2:15:15 time
2:15:15 a very special uh age because the fact
2:15:18 of the matter is
2:15:20 well you can even like you you can learn
2:15:22 a lot from the comfort of your own home
2:15:25 i was shocked today and yesterday i was
2:15:26 doing some research and
2:15:28 there's the you know there's a mocha
2:15:30 called the shamila like
2:15:31 arabic one and i was going through all
2:15:32 these books and i was thinking wow
2:15:34 this a thousand years ago someone would
2:15:36 have had to travel the lands in order to
2:15:38 get the books that i was getting and i'm
2:15:39 thinking
2:15:40 amazing like i can just do it all from
2:15:42 the comfort of my own
2:15:43 home with my little phone here it's
2:15:45 amazing how much you can
2:15:47 i mean people attack social media for
2:15:48 many good reasons but we don't talk
2:15:50 about the good
2:15:51 of the internet there are some things we
2:15:53 can do now that we can would never
2:15:54 have been able to do back in the days
2:15:56 and so
2:15:58 one has to really take that on board and
2:15:59 try and do as much as they could do
2:16:01 you know and and whatever if you're even
2:16:04 if yourself
2:16:05 like you you're studying something
2:16:07 yourself try and find like-minded people
2:16:09 study groups uh mentors teachers and
2:16:12 whatever
2:16:12 get reading list what i would do for you
2:16:14 bro i'd get reading lists from
2:16:15 universities top universities see their
2:16:16 reading let's see their modules see what
2:16:18 they're covering
2:16:19 and if you if you're doing something
2:16:20 like um philosophy of science see what
2:16:22 this course structure looks like
2:16:23 and start reading those books yourself
2:16:25 what other things
2:16:26 you couldn't go into university i i
2:16:28 totally agree with what
2:16:30 uh hijab is saying and what i'll add to
2:16:32 that actually
2:16:33 i'm sure hijab would agree to this um
2:16:36 is that at university when you
2:16:39 university courses when you go and look
2:16:41 up the reading
2:16:42 um that is provided by the lecturers is
2:16:45 actually
2:16:46 outdated so many of the readings that
2:16:48 you do independently
2:16:50 are actually better so recently a
2:16:52 brother reached out to me
2:16:54 and he said that he wants to do a
2:16:55 philosophy or science module at oxford
2:16:57 university
2:16:58 and he sent me the is just one module
2:17:01 that he wanted to do
2:17:02 and he said what do you think about it
2:17:04 and i looked at it and i was a bit
2:17:05 surprised because one of the books was
2:17:08 from 2001 and one of the other books was
2:17:11 just
2:17:11 a couple of years old and some of the
2:17:14 really important books which i came
2:17:15 across when i when i was doing my own
2:17:17 studies
2:17:17 they weren't even listed so you know
2:17:19 sometimes these lectures you have to
2:17:20 imagine that
2:17:21 they haven't updated the reading list
2:17:23 for these courses in
2:17:24 in dogs years yeah and the stuff that
2:17:27 you get on amazon
2:17:29 you know with the latest philosophy of
2:17:31 science books coming out
2:17:32 they haven't even heard of them because
2:17:34 they're still using lecture i mean when
2:17:35 i was at university i remember
2:17:37 you know one particular lecturer he had
2:17:40 notes from years ago that he used to
2:17:42 regurgitate he never updated
2:17:43 any of his information a lot of my
2:17:45 lasers yeah
2:17:46 because you have to go back in yeah you
2:17:49 have to go back and
2:17:50 change the powerpoint slides and whatnot
2:17:52 can't be bothered so i totally agree i
2:17:54 mean that's a beautiful example you can
2:17:55 learn so many things
2:17:57 uh independently um and and you know we
2:18:00 have this inferiority complex
2:18:02 uh all of us that you know i have to be
2:18:04 part of an institute to really learn
2:18:06 that's not true at all
2:18:07 i mean i consider you know hijab an
2:18:09 expert when it comes to
2:18:10 dealing with liberalism but sometimes
2:18:12 you can have a muslim who studied
2:18:14 liberalism academically at university
2:18:17 but because they haven't read around
2:18:19 they can't really deal with it because
2:18:21 in a way you know you become uh quite
2:18:25 um binary and you just learn
2:18:29 a niche within a niche and you forget
2:18:30 the bigger picture
2:18:32 which is why some of the great people in
2:18:35 the field
2:18:36 they actually have crossed over from
2:18:37 other fields like for example one of the
2:18:39 key movers and shakers
2:18:41 in um philosophy uh sorry in
2:18:44 evolutionary theory is james shapiro
2:18:48 who actually studied as his undergrad
2:18:50 english literature
2:18:52 nothing to do with biology but right now
2:18:54 he is right at the cutting edge
2:18:56 of an alternative to darwinism known as
2:18:58 natural genetic engineering
2:19:00 and he's recognized by academics and
2:19:02 he's referenced by academics
2:19:03 but again he just he's a polymath he
2:19:05 moved over
2:19:06 and i believe one of the reasons he's so
2:19:08 good is because he mastered
2:19:10 you know english literature then he went
2:19:12 into something totally different as
2:19:13 opposed to somebody
2:19:14 that was just you know going deeper and
2:19:17 deeper
2:19:18 in terms of niches right like chomsky
2:19:21 and
2:19:21 like yeah he's done really well with
2:19:23 linguistics and then he moved on to
2:19:25 everything else basically yeah do you
2:19:28 think a mixture of um videos and books
2:19:30 will be
2:19:31 good yeah use everything you can bro
2:19:33 like
2:19:34 you know some really like cutting edge
2:19:36 lectures
2:19:37 on youtube like for example there's one
2:19:39 about justice by michael sandell
2:19:41 i always recommend this on on youtube
2:19:43 it's like a 12 part series man
2:19:45 fantastic it's the best you're gonna
2:19:47 find yeah so it's a harvard what was
2:19:48 your name again sorry
2:19:50 michael sandel he he wrote he's a
2:19:52 liberal he wrote a book on
2:19:53 communitarianism right but he goes
2:19:55 through a lot of the political
2:19:57 philosophies a lot of the more
2:19:58 philosophies yeah and he's engaging with
2:19:59 the audience and
2:20:01 it's probably one of the most popular
2:20:02 lecture series online it's absolutely
2:20:04 like
2:20:04 the best you guys know but stay tuned to
2:20:07 the sapiens and i'll put a link here
2:20:09 and you can actually follow our our work
2:20:13 through the education portal we're
2:20:14 coming to the end of the live stream
2:20:16 so i won't be able to take any more
2:20:18 people into the studio
2:20:20 so let's move uh like a brother
2:20:23 okay can i ask you one more minor
2:20:25 question a small question
2:20:27 if we could wrap up because we are very
2:20:29 much limited in time
2:20:34 okay because you know there's other
2:20:37 people waiting who i haven't put in the
2:20:38 studios
2:20:39 like you can see all the names there
2:20:41 hopefully for the people that's true
2:20:42 that's true
2:20:46 [Music]
2:20:55 [Music]
2:20:56 brothers
2:20:58 [Music]
2:21:01 that's my clone uh uh brother supporter
2:21:03 got a question for you brother i've been
2:21:04 uh following your work now for a little
2:21:06 bit and um admire what you do on on
2:21:08 evolution etc
2:21:10 um a question for you what are your
2:21:13 thoughts on earlier
2:21:14 uh islamic scholars like uh al jazeera's
2:21:17 and even
2:21:18 uh that wrote about evolution the
2:21:20 pre-date darwin so i know al-jaz has a
2:21:22 book called
2:21:24 and he deposits theories the uh
2:21:27 uh the discuss evolution what are your
2:21:29 what are your thoughts about these
2:21:30 that's a very very good question so this
2:21:33 is something in which
2:21:34 i made a huge mistake so
2:21:38 i believe the standard narrative which
2:21:40 has even been pushed out by
2:21:43 you know very prominent western
2:21:46 academics as well
2:21:47 that the muslims were way ahead of
2:21:49 everyone else when it comes to evolution
2:21:52 um so referencing like al-jahees
2:21:55 and others in fact there's a book i was
2:21:58 reading by
2:21:59 cambridge would you believe it a
2:22:00 cambridge professor
2:22:02 called darwin's ghost in which she was
2:22:04 repeating the same narrative
2:22:06 that allies and others you know they had
2:22:08 evolutionary ideas before darwin
2:22:10 hence darwin's ghosts however there was
2:22:14 a recent paper that was published and
2:22:16 this by the way is used by
2:22:19 some muslim uh evolutionists to say look
2:22:22 what's the deal they believed in it in
2:22:24 the past
2:22:25 we believe in it in fact we we even went
2:22:28 uh we even came
2:22:29 up with it before darwin now uh
2:22:32 professor shaib ahmed malik
2:22:35 somebody you'll you'll see on my channel
2:22:36 that we need delusions as well
2:22:38 he actually refuted this argument
2:22:41 in a way that it just completely
2:22:44 surprised academics i mean
2:22:46 not only like the cambridge academic are
2:22:48 speaking of but also some muslims who
2:22:50 wanted to
2:22:52 purely push the darwinian narrative
2:22:55 alongside the human chimpance history
2:22:57 and everything so he actually
2:22:59 showed how they the muslims didn't
2:23:03 actually have anything resembling
2:23:04 modern darwin theory and in fact
2:23:08 um it's been shoehorned into their
2:23:10 writing so
2:23:11 he looks into the works of al-jahees
2:23:13 there's actually an arab
2:23:16 professor who um
2:23:20 has written that book islam's quantum
2:23:22 question what's his name
2:23:24 uh well uh you know it's it's it's
2:23:27 yeah yeah please please look him up so
2:23:29 he was pushing this narrative as well
2:23:31 very famous on youtube as well um you
2:23:34 know
2:23:34 muslims discovered a muslim yeah
2:23:40 yeah and then so you know all of these
2:23:44 guys were
2:23:44 pushing this narrative and then you know
2:23:46 that paper
2:23:48 decisively showed there isn't an
2:23:50 argument there
2:23:51 so i highly recommend that paper um
2:23:54 mention the name and the author again
2:23:56 the author is professor schweib ahmed
2:23:58 malik
2:24:05 okay and the paper refutes the arguments
2:24:09 that muslims came up with darwinism and
2:24:12 hence
2:24:13 refutes the muslim evolutionists today
2:24:16 who simply want to accept
2:24:18 so so you'll be saying that the the uh
2:24:20 is it's an anachronism they they read
2:24:23 into
2:24:23 the israeli police with the lands of
2:24:25 darwin yep exactly
2:24:39 i said i did not know about that i
2:24:41 always was kind of under that impression
2:24:43 that they
2:24:43 they resembled dartmouth in fact
2:24:46 in fact i repeated it um
2:24:49 and i believed it to be true i mean i
2:24:51 was surprised
2:24:53 that you know once i found out what shui
2:24:56 uh had published and it
2:24:57 had been peer reviewed and it's come out
2:24:58 in a journal i was surprised that you
2:25:01 know
2:25:02 cambridge university professors
2:25:04 nonetheless
2:25:06 i mean no less get this wrong right so
2:25:09 i mean it's it's when schweib actually
2:25:11 showed me what was going on
2:25:13 it was literally a case of cherry
2:25:16 picking
2:25:16 right which someone had done in the past
2:25:18 and published
2:25:20 and nobody in academia bothered to
2:25:21 actually go and
2:25:23 check the translations and see if they
2:25:25 were done properly which again
2:25:26 you know a lot of academia is just based
2:25:28 on testimony so
2:25:30 you know some arab guys done it we trust
2:25:33 him everyone copies copies copies
2:25:35 and trade actually went and looked at
2:25:36 the source manuscripts and saw
2:25:39 it's not the case at all i'll read it
2:25:41 just that question collaborative
2:25:42 manuscripts with the with the
2:25:44 pictures on them and so on is that what
2:25:46 i'm talking about have you seen those
2:25:47 manuscripts
2:25:48 where the jaw heads ones i've i've
2:25:51 i haven't looked into what you've just
2:25:53 said that i said oh oh oh oh oh
2:25:55 his book of uh animals yeah yeah no no
2:25:58 that's all valid
2:26:00 but the idea that he came up with right
2:26:02 right yeah yeah that's good
2:26:03 but he he he has great contributions to
2:26:05 biology
2:26:10 2.0
2:26:15 i just had a quick question um of my
2:26:18 university course i have to like deal
2:26:20 with cadavers yeah so you know like the
2:26:22 dead body so like
2:26:23 just looking at it it's maybe anatomy um
2:26:26 and i just had a question about um you
2:26:28 know i'm not sure what the actual view
2:26:30 is but you know for the and
2:26:31 the master sorry salem what actually
2:26:33 happens in the grave are they alive are
2:26:35 they like
2:26:36 are they preserved i just heard you i've
2:26:37 had a lot of things so like
2:26:39 what is the actual like always solid
2:26:42 yeah we don't believe that they they
2:26:44 they decompose we believe that they say
2:26:46 in their
2:26:47 original form they're incorruptable
2:26:50 in this assembly yeah but the belief is
2:26:52 that we
2:26:53 we we don't believe they are alive
2:26:57 we believe all all human beings pass
2:27:00 away
2:27:00 but the bodies of uh prophets are not
2:27:04 um decomposed decomposed in fact i mean
2:27:07 uh
2:27:08 maybe hijab's gonna refute me on this
2:27:09 but from my understanding this is also
2:27:11 true of
2:27:12 the companions that the companions
2:27:16 uh uh that we have uh uh
2:27:19 narrations about one of the for example
2:27:22 companions who passed away
2:27:24 um on his uh on his journey to
2:27:28 cyprus and that companion's body did not
2:27:31 and
2:27:31 he he died uh on on the ship
2:27:34 and his body did not decompose and we
2:27:37 likewise have other
2:27:38 stories of other companions who i mean
2:27:41 again these are these are not what the
2:27:42 prophet said this is not what allah said
2:27:44 these are things which came later which
2:27:46 people said this is also true for some
2:27:47 of the sahaba
2:27:48 allah knows best by the way you know
2:27:50 like nowadays catholic church has
2:27:52 a big scandal uh because they're trying
2:27:54 to say that all their saints are not
2:27:55 decomposed
2:27:56 right but most of these so-called
2:27:59 non-decomposed bodies are all like
2:28:01 they put these like whites or whatever
2:28:03 they're embalming yeah yeah
2:28:05 like what they've done with vladimir
2:28:07 lenin and in russia
2:28:09 i don't think he was the same but
2:28:11 basically yeah this embalming uh
2:28:12 thing i actually thought he was loving
2:28:14 us
2:28:19 so just kick him out of there check him
2:28:21 out
2:28:23 uh but yeah yeah so um we don't believe
2:28:26 that but in terms of the prophecy and
2:28:27 that's one of the miracles of the
2:28:28 prophet yeah they they
2:28:30 live in the in the in the
2:28:33 in the in the bazaar obviously we don't
2:28:36 believe they die
2:28:37 in totality we believe that there is a
2:28:39 human death
2:28:40 but then they continue living in uh in
2:28:42 another sense which is the bazaar which
2:28:43 is
2:28:44 what happens with everyone obviously you
2:28:45 should have that as well continue living
2:28:47 like life as well
2:28:50 brother youth may is allah
2:28:54 i think i kind of answered i was just
2:28:56 thinking about like a scenario
2:28:57 um i think it's just a rewarding
2:28:59 essentially of like a circle argument
2:29:01 but like
2:29:02 you know when we like measured okay
2:29:04 let's say i have a laptop here and it
2:29:06 measures 20 centimeters
2:29:08 um there's an infinite amount of um
2:29:11 degree of like let's say i have two two
2:29:14 uh windows laptops are exactly the same
2:29:15 right
2:29:16 but if i measure but one length the side
2:29:18 the same side on both
2:29:20 um there's going to be a degree of
2:29:22 difference essentially right because
2:29:25 do you get like i'm not sure how to
2:29:27 describe it but like let's say one is
2:29:28 10.1 centimeters and the other one's
2:29:30 10.1
2:29:31 but if i take that to 10 more decimal
2:29:32 places
2:29:35 or um or something it's going to be
2:29:36 different whenever at some point it's
2:29:38 going to be different along those lines
2:29:39 right
2:29:40 sorry i don't i don't understand the
2:29:43 context okay
2:29:44 let me let me try and rephrase it so
2:29:45 like let's say i have two two
2:29:47 objects that are meant to be exactly the
2:29:48 same right
2:29:50 yeah yeah and then i take the same um
2:29:53 length
2:29:53 on both objects at some point along the
2:29:56 decimal place um scale they will differ
2:29:59 right
2:30:01 why because they can't be exactly it's
2:30:03 not possible for like well
2:30:04 that's this is where the question comes
2:30:05 in really is it like
2:30:07 mathematically speaking is it not is it
2:30:09 almost like impossible for something to
2:30:11 be exactly the same in terms of
2:30:12 measurement
2:30:12 because at some point like let's say i
2:30:14 go to the millionth decimal place won't
2:30:16 it vary
2:30:17 no why why why would it i mean in terms
2:30:21 of like because
2:30:22 no particle the arrangement of particles
2:30:24 can't be exactly the same because
2:30:25 apostle can't like take the same like
2:30:27 positioning
2:30:29 yeah but you said it's the same in the
2:30:31 beginning no
2:30:32 i mean in terms of like human
2:30:34 manufacturing
2:30:37 the question hasn't really come out
2:30:39 right right okay you're not saying
2:30:40 hypothetically you're saying yeah okay i
2:30:42 get it in real terms yeah in real terms
2:30:44 so we make two different dolls yup yeah
2:30:46 yeah yeah yeah
2:30:47 yeah um yes i was just thinking um
2:30:50 is is it like if you were to say like
2:30:52 using that logic then would you say if
2:30:55 a loss fan followers make something to
2:30:56 exactly the same objects
2:30:58 um and we take the same measurement on
2:31:00 both
2:31:01 are they not going to be the same the
2:31:04 thing is allah is the best of creators i
2:31:06 mean that
2:31:07 that's just human imperfection why
2:31:10 things would be different but with allah
2:31:12 it'd be the exact same
2:31:15 yeah okay yeah yeah uh yeah i think it's
2:31:17 just almost like yeah
2:31:18 i was just concerned you're talking
2:31:21 maybe about the measurement problem
2:31:23 yes our ability to or lack
2:31:26 thereof to measure something is
2:31:29 different from
2:31:29 the fact that the ontological reality of
2:31:32 it being
2:31:33 actually the same or not so if we
2:31:36 measure something
2:31:37 maybe our measurements or instruments
2:31:39 are going to be problematic but the fact
2:31:41 that they're both the same can be
2:31:42 it's logically conceivable that you can
2:31:44 have something the same height and the
2:31:45 same size
2:31:46 i can create like yeah so jazakallah
2:31:49 brother yusuf
2:31:50 for your question what we're going to be
2:31:53 doing now
2:31:54 is bringing this live stream to
2:31:57 an end it was really enjoyable
2:32:00 it went on a lot longer than i actually
2:32:03 anticipated
2:32:05 but alhamdulillah we got to speak to the
2:32:07 audience uh what did you think it was
2:32:09 like
2:32:09 yeah very good i mean a very educated
2:32:12 audience that they had very pertinent
2:32:14 questions they say of us and you know
2:32:17 um happy to oblige and obviously be with
2:32:20 the brothers and sisters that were on
2:32:21 this and
2:32:22 we didn't get any any females actually
2:32:24 asking questions today which
2:32:27 yeah it's a shame but you can obviously
2:32:29 ask questions if you're
2:32:31 yeah you can write them down if you want
2:32:33 and so on but
2:32:34 allah yeah it was good i think it was
2:32:36 productive jazakallah
2:32:38 everybody we are going to inshaallah do
2:32:41 a live stream
2:32:42 every week saturday and we will
2:32:46 um hopefully try and not do it this late
2:32:49 try and do a bit
2:32:50 earlier