Quilliam's Adam Deen Debates Mohammed Hijab (2018-05-14) ​

0:00:00 you're in my opinion in my humble
0:00:02 opinion yeah I've been I've seen a
0:00:04 couple of things and heard a couple of
0:00:05 things of imagine ours yeah I've seen
0:00:07 and heard it and I've seen what you have
0:00:08 to say and I heard what you have to say
0:00:10 in my humble opinion it makes no sense
0:00:12 for you to be working together
0:00:15 you're more you're more online or you're
0:00:19 more Center ground in the sense of
0:00:21 Islamic traditionalism in fact I
0:00:23 genuinely do believe that if you
0:00:26 actually voiced your opinion in a public
0:00:28 platform yeah maybe you maybe you
0:00:30 reprimand you say this is wrong okay in
0:00:33 that case you need to make very clear
0:00:35 because the fingers look my opinion on
0:00:38 Quilliam is that it doesn't it doesn't
0:00:40 help counter extremism this is working
0:00:42 the wrong strategies well I reckon let
0:00:44 me tell you something I reckon we do the
0:00:46 best counter extremist work and that's
0:00:47 know when I say we I'm not talking about
0:00:49 me I'm talking about people that are
0:00:51 traditionalists I'm not talking about me
0:00:52 well I'll tell you why I tell you why
0:00:54 but the problem is do traditional ideas
0:00:56 a lot of you believe it anyways we've
0:00:59 come to that conclusion I was going to
0:01:00 say she was this Adam listen yeah look
0:01:03 this is the way to deal with extremism
0:01:07 in my opinion you could take it policy
0:01:09 or recommendation throw it in the bin
0:01:11 use it do whatever you wanna do if
0:01:13 you're serious about it okay do not work
0:01:16 with people who are to the Muslim
0:01:19 community seen as not helping or not
0:01:23 helpful people like Majid know us
0:01:24 because he's not like you he's very much
0:01:27 against Islam in many aspects of Muslims
0:01:29 and in our opinion and our penis our
0:01:31 subjective opinion no problem that's
0:01:33 number one free yourself from Rosana
0:01:34 videos number two what you've got to do
0:01:36 is you've gotta work within the
0:01:39 framework Muslims that let me tell you
0:01:40 this candidly and clearly for you to
0:01:42 hear please if you're serious about
0:01:44 countering extremism listen to I'm
0:01:46 saying Muslims are have decided or are
0:01:49 about to decide to blow themselves up
0:01:51 yeah on a train or on a plane or an
0:01:56 automobile whoever may be those
0:01:59 individuals will not be convinced by the
0:02:03 rhetoric of post-enlightenment they will
0:02:06 not be
0:02:07 let me tell you why because they will
0:02:11 not be convinced by post-enlightenment
0:02:14 liberal istic the Democratic reasoning
0:02:17 they can only be convinced they can only
0:02:21 and will only be convinced those
0:02:24 individuals are discredited by the
0:02:28 Muslim community yes yes they're
0:02:30 discredited but opposed I'm not saying
0:02:31 that they have no knowledge I'm not
0:02:33 saying this but thank you within the
0:02:34 tradition no they don't really because
0:02:36 they're saying things which are let me
0:02:37 tell you what let me never say so how to
0:02:38 please do that no I do them say that you
0:02:41 can break your faster ask of time
0:02:42 according to yes yeah I'm sorry opinion
0:02:46 could be of the many others are the
0:02:48 opinions are very much isolated yeah but
0:02:50 it's very opinion no but it's not
0:02:52 mainstream second you have to work
0:02:55 within the mainstream news mainstream no
0:02:59 mainstream no no no there is a
0:03:01 mainstream traditional there's a
0:03:02 Scholastic for this university it's not
0:03:06 it's a one-person no it's not it's what
0:03:09 tell me where it says they don't do the
0:03:11 reflection like that it is a but were
0:03:13 supported by us no no I have not my
0:03:16 district 12 medium for me I know trust
0:03:18 me they don't have a legend like that
0:03:19 yeah they don't have a legend they have
0:03:20 to have some power we they have to work
0:03:21 these guys tomorrow and these guys who
0:03:24 are just credited in their own right
0:03:25 trust me who's the leader of us are now
0:03:30 is completely discredited in the Muslim
0:03:32 world you should know this yeah okay now
0:03:34 I'm not saying he doesn't have any
0:03:35 knowledge but it is no problem listen to
0:03:38 me what I'm saying to you candidly and
0:03:41 clearly yeah is that if you're serious
0:03:43 about seriously you want to stop people
0:03:46 blowing themselves up full stop yeah you
0:03:48 want to stop here killing and this and
0:03:50 that I want to do the same thing maybe
0:03:51 we have different reasons for the minute
0:03:52 maybe you mean imagine have different
0:03:54 reasons for doing it maybe me and the
0:03:56 government of Britain have the reason
0:03:57 for doing it
0:03:58 we have different reasons for doing it
0:03:59 we actually do have different I'm the
0:04:01 reason why I'm doing it is to protect my
0:04:03 own community I'll tell you straight
0:04:04 forward yeah because the first
0:04:06 corruption is a deviant ideology that
0:04:08 they're gonna be following which could
0:04:09 take them out of the slammer together my
0:04:10 opinion yeah that's the first corruption
0:04:12 I want to protect them from that before
0:04:15 anything else that's not war
0:04:17 so here what I'm saying is if you're
0:04:19 really serious about that you need to
0:04:21 join you need to free yourselves from
0:04:24 those individuals who are completely
0:04:25 discredited for in the Muslim community
0:04:26 and then you need to equip yourself with
0:04:29 the traditional knowledge that I'm sure
0:04:30 you have some basis on that and then you
0:04:32 have to join those traditionalists who
0:04:35 work within the tradition the mainstream
0:04:37 tradition well talk about a form of that
0:04:39 head etc in order to try and divert
0:04:42 those people away using that rhetoric
0:04:44 the post-enlightenment rhetoric works
0:04:46 with the British public
0:04:48 you know non-muslims really well I'm
0:04:50 telling you but it does not work with
0:04:52 someone who's about to kill some some
0:04:54 people during the sanest point someone
0:04:57 who's gonna blow themselves up if
0:04:58 someone says look it's not very
0:04:59 democratic what you're doing yeah
0:05:00 freedom of speech and exertion listen
0:05:02 man I'm proposing freedom of speech
0:05:04 exactly that's exactly right he's gonna
0:05:06 give him fuel and energy and yeah what
0:05:09 he needs is someone to come to him and
0:05:11 say listen okay let me trace ensuring I
0:05:13 know I'm not saying it's you I'm saying
0:05:15 that what he this guy needs what this
0:05:17 guy needs is that he's about to blow
0:05:18 himself up I'm not taking the credit for
0:05:20 myself Allah yeah a lot of people win
0:05:22 the dollars in a lot of the Messiah the
0:05:27 mâche particularly yeah those who are
0:05:29 very engrossed in the traditional works
0:05:31 yeah they are in my opinion the
0:05:34 frontline of the radical izing people in
0:05:35 that same way that we talked about when
0:05:37 we say D radical I think we're talking
0:05:38 about stopping them from blowing
0:05:39 themselves up you know why because they
0:05:41 bring those guys to the corner and they
0:05:43 say you know what you know what you're
0:05:44 doing here it goes against this Quranic
0:05:46 verse and that's gonna do yeah for the
0:05:48 concept
0:05:51 the harp looks what you say to a second
0:05:56 harm done Islam not harm the harp is
0:06:03 where wars happening yeah no problem
0:06:05 you someone comes to you and says I
0:06:07 believe our internal heart say no
0:06:09 problem so you say to Adam say Donnell
0:06:11 hug for those who believe in it means
0:06:13 the place of war say I agree no problem
0:06:15 we believe we're in that were happy yeah
0:06:16 no problem yeah how would you deal with
0:06:18 that individual I'm asking you
0:06:20 I mean I'm this is a bit of a training
0:06:21 now I'm not saying that you need it but
0:06:22 a bit of a training I'm saying I'm a
0:06:24 radical I'm coming to you nam say look
0:06:25 we're in dar al-harb
0:06:27 we're in the place of war how we're
0:06:28 going to how would you come to this I
0:06:32 someone come to you are you gonna say it
0:06:34 was very undemocratic is irrational he's
0:06:36 gonna say you know I don't care about
0:06:37 democracy and I've got my own
0:06:38 rationality I'm gonna kill the guy
0:06:41 how would you do with it would instruct
0:06:44 identification okay he sees he's going
0:06:50 to say look we've got Adam Dean versus
0:06:52 in mocha Dhamma I'm gonna take no Kodama
0:06:54 because Adam Dean is not trained
0:06:55 Islamically it doesn't have the Arabic
0:06:57 language etc ethnic Adama is that a
0:06:59 mountain I'm going to take him over the
0:07:00 new because he knows more about them
0:07:02 than you . case closed do you know how
0:07:04 to do with it someone comes to you says
0:07:06 Darryl harp I believe I'm in Dar harpeia
0:07:08 say ok no problem let's take for the
0:07:10 sake of argument $1 have we're a place
0:07:11 of war you know he says to them first
0:07:13 question
0:07:15 is it okay to kill a cat in Darla harp
0:07:18 first question this is a training now
0:07:21 hope the quillion
0:07:22 who guys there they're listening you
0:07:24 said - is it okay to kill a cat in
0:07:26 Darryl hunt it's okay
0:07:28 what is he gonna say he's gonna say no
0:07:32 it's not okay if he knows anything you
0:07:33 say no i don't know actually i don't
0:07:35 know i say what the hadith of the woman
0:07:37 that killed at the torture the catch to
0:07:38 go to hell yeah okay fine
0:07:40 it's killing a cat Haram yes is it Haram
0:07:44 in Donnell harm and Donnell Islam yes
0:07:47 how do we know is how I'm in both places
0:07:49 because there's no reason for us to
0:07:51 believe that this general rule is not
0:07:54 applicable at dar al-harb be fine
0:07:57 let's take you to the next step is it
0:07:59 Haram to kill a child a baby in Donnell
0:08:01 harm of course why because you know it's
0:08:04 Haram to kill and a burrito member hala
0:08:06 hala who call it the Prophet told us
0:08:08 straightforwardly that McKenna Ali her
0:08:11 and took Kyle when the woman was killed
0:08:12 in the battlefield he said it wasn't for
0:08:14 her to be killed fine so he huh yes
0:08:17 What did he say say fine so killing
0:08:23 civilians whether it be in double its
0:08:25 level then he's going to say okay well
0:08:27 you know you make a point this hadith
0:08:29 Makenna Makenna and yeah when they
0:08:34 killed children accidentally and they
0:08:37 said don't worry there they all said
0:08:45 excellent put in context and what is it
0:08:51 Saudis all these oh no it doesn't
0:08:59 because one lie it works because he will
0:09:02 I can give you the testimonials brother
0:09:04 you know we might do we might get you
0:09:06 alive because I the beginning of this
0:09:08 discussion I said you look what measure
0:09:10 what way of measuring yeah your success
0:09:13 in terms of counter extremism as Lackey
0:09:15 cooler yeah and you said really we have
0:09:17 some things here and there we know it's
0:09:18 trivial or whatever I'm saying should we
0:09:20 have a neutral exactly but on the ground
0:09:23 people that are actually in prison yes
0:09:25 that we engage with I'm telling you our
0:09:28 way actually today they disavow their
0:09:31 extreme no problems while they're like
0:09:32 that consider we've got people that
0:09:34 we've actually gone live like well like
0:09:37 well like well like well like our way
0:09:42 works Doodle white because do you know
0:09:45 why are we that's nice saying al Qaeda
0:09:48 takes people away from Isis
0:09:51 yeah and they join outside and they say
0:09:53 well lucky it works no no well it
0:09:57 depends you're taking them away from
0:09:59 being jihadist yeah it's God's what's
0:10:03 wrong yeah but good is just as well no
0:10:06 problem it's an idea no sir
0:10:09 Islam was revealed there was a
0:10:10 historical come no problem but he's
0:10:12 saying the hand stupid to listen to
0:10:15 who's the person who says I'm gonna cut
0:10:17 the handle I'm not saying that we should
0:10:22 cut the handle treat the thief that's
0:10:23 what I'm saying yeah already I will do
0:10:28 it anyway I'm saying you know what
0:10:33 affects the British public
0:10:35 Cyril hokum is what the Quran says what
0:10:38 the hadith says 1001 is implemented
0:10:40 let's talk what affects the British
0:10:44 public not Cyril hokum I can walk around
0:10:46 in my heart and my brain now listen to
0:10:49 me and believe in my heart in my brain
0:10:51 that actually if all the conditions are
0:10:54 met and this and that no preventers are
0:10:55 in place and we lived in a Muslim
0:10:58 country that you know the penis of love
0:11:00 car in the hand off is the most
0:11:01 beneficial one whoever does that my
0:11:04 belief will ever manifest itself in a
0:11:06 sociological environment it will never
0:11:09 ever mean please wait it will never
0:11:13 manifest itself for the social it has no
0:11:15 implications on the British public
0:11:17 because I don't believe any of the
0:11:19 Sharia law is applicable to non-muslims
0:11:21 any of it and you're not praying not
0:11:23 fasting not hai jab none of it is
0:11:25 applicable to the British non-muslim
0:11:27 public stealing yes not apostasy all of
0:11:30 that is not applicable in Britain
0:11:32 so here Ceylon as a hokum I believe is
0:11:36 all true but 10 Zeeland implementation I
0:11:40 don't say it's applicable so me and you
0:11:42 have the same our position has the same
0:11:45 effect sociologically if I bring someone
0:11:48 out of blowing themselves up now blowing
0:11:50 someone up does have an effect on the
0:11:52 British public
0:11:52 now British public don't give a damn if
0:11:54 I if I think in my heart that you know
0:11:56 if I lived in an all the Muslim country
0:11:58 and this and that the hand comes off
0:11:59 they don't give a damn fighting back
0:12:01 it's not gonna affect their daily life
0:12:02 but what is gonna affect their daily
0:12:04 life if I blow myself up what they need
0:12:06 but the problem was they need at the
0:12:08 problem with the guy that you're talking
0:12:10 to you
0:12:10 right he's been inducted with these
0:12:12 ideas he would consider you in a
0:12:14 hypocrite because he would say you're
0:12:16 being selected with the hats why because
0:12:32 here you have to understand the
0:12:34 difference the Quran says were Malik ami
0:12:37 de la cultura in true circle to be loved
0:12:40 our humble haya to dunya Roman higher to
0:12:44 dunya fill affinity luckily what is it
0:12:46 true this one of the things that the
0:12:48 general is they say a lot of the time
0:12:49 one of the main verses that they use is
0:12:51 the Taliban through the Toba why don't
0:12:54 you go out and fight when I said when I
0:12:57 said to you fight in the way of Allah
0:13:00 why is it why is it a circle to allowed
0:13:03 that you come that you cling on to the
0:13:05 earth one of the tomb fill higher table
0:13:07 higher to dunya are you happy with this
0:13:09 world well hiya dunya Phil Ashkenazi
0:13:11 luckily why is the life of this world
0:13:13 occur to the a hair of texture for a
0:13:15 little garnish is minor now having said
0:13:18 that now the first thing I'll say is
0:13:20 them okay the Quran says melaku either
0:13:24 peel alaikum when it said to you
0:13:28 fight in the way of our who's speaking
0:13:29 no a la piel alaikum
0:13:34 all of the festoon of this verse 8 when
0:13:36 the Amir marks a demon makes a really
0:13:39 interesting book and I'm hearing the
0:13:40 leader mark sage what makes a really
0:13:42 interesting book could lead the last
0:13:43 jihad
0:13:44 one of the main books he even realize he
0:13:48 said not Muslim he realizes that
0:13:49 actually this whole physical jihad
0:13:52 what's required for it to be effective
0:13:54 or to actually work is a leader in the
0:13:57 country in these things just like any
0:13:58 country has its leaders and soldiers
0:13:59 whoever yeah same thing now that we have
0:14:02 a fragmented Ouma there is no jihad like
0:14:05 that except for the defensive one the
0:14:07 defensive wondering if someone comes and
0:14:09 kills you and tries to your town and
0:14:11 these things so you have to find
0:14:12 offensive jihad today we don't have a
0:14:14 first block in this world
0:14:15 toxiel and yes toxiel and if you had you
0:14:19 don't believe in no wait sorry yes to
0:14:26 implement the Sharia Ceylon but this is
0:14:29 what you have to differentiate don't see
0:14:31 that awesome
0:14:31 as an [ __ ] you have two kinds of
0:14:33 jihad Luke Adama says you have jihad
0:14:35 differ and you have the pull up the fire
0:14:39 is when you're defending yourself you
0:14:41 had a polyp is when you're pre-empting
0:14:43 jihad you're physically doing these
0:14:44 things yeah so if there was a Muslim
0:14:48 country they have two options jail
0:14:50 defies is fault you have to everybody
0:14:53 have to fight even the woman and I think
0:14:54 in a country they have to fight for to
0:14:56 defend themselves jazakallah now the
0:14:58 scholars talk about how that should be
0:15:00 implemented etc and usually it's
0:15:01 implemented in the context of empires
0:15:03 and really and truly I believe in my
0:15:05 opinion in ask ourselves controversial
0:15:07 but in the framework of the medieval
0:15:09 period it was to prevent
0:15:10 yeah being engulfed and absorbed into
0:15:13 other empires and to preempt that by
0:15:15 absorbing other umpires into its own
0:15:17 empire that's what we had in place these
0:15:19 things are tethered qualified by lots of
0:15:23 other laws for example the doctor and
0:15:26 the me sack that some Muslim countries
0:15:28 can have with other Muslim countries you
0:15:30 could argue the UN you could argue the
0:15:32 UN because the person you have to
0:15:34 understand something I'm sure your
0:15:35 cover-ups understanding the the
0:15:37 pre-world War one
0:15:39 it's completely different to the
0:15:40 post-world War One world completely
0:15:43 different and what lie it's like two O's
0:15:45 three World War one before 1914 everyone
0:15:50 was on expansion all the empires you had
0:15:54 the austro-hungarian Empire you had the
0:15:55 German Empire you had the Prussian
0:15:57 Empire you had the Russian Empire
0:15:59 Ottoman Empire all of these empires were
0:16:02 unashamedly expansionist and imperialist
0:16:05 and it was the menu of the day to be
0:16:07 imperialist in that context Islam says
0:16:10 expand because if you don't expand
0:16:12 you're gonna be expanded upon or whoa
0:16:15 and this is the second option you have
0:16:17 you have none I'm talking about I'm
0:16:19 talking about the proactive oh so you
0:16:22 have you have you can expand or two you
0:16:25 can decide to make agreements with those
0:16:27 other empires such that you both don't
0:16:30 expand both of those things are those
0:16:32 things are reasonable recourses in that
0:16:34 environment yes
0:16:35 post-world War one sorry - it's okay
0:16:39 post-world War post-world War two
0:16:42 you had the League of Nations which
0:16:43 fails then you have the UN the UN is an
0:16:45 American thing yeah it's really is
0:16:47 dominated by America but I'm not talking
0:16:49 about you and now but the idea of
0:16:50 countries coming together deciding not
0:16:52 to expand is supported by the Islamic
0:16:55 texts so the key point that I was trying
0:16:57 to make myself you don't fight so here
0:16:59 what I believe wait wait wait we are
0:17:00 forcing fight because of their disbelief
0:17:02 yes of course not yes because the Koran
0:17:05 says very clearly in chapter 22 of the
0:17:07 Quran it says it says very very clearly
0:17:12 it says chapter 22 verse 69 yeah it says
0:17:22 it says that it's written upon ya those
0:17:28 Muslims to fight beyond the home volume
0:17:31 or because they have been oppressed yeah
0:17:33 so the oppression is the reason island
0:17:35 so here the point is this jihad has
0:17:38 always got is couched in that language
0:17:39 is a language of justification now what
0:17:43 I say in a nutshell bro
0:17:44 what we're doing I personally believe
0:17:46 just watching closely more than what
0:17:49 you're doing
0:18:00 Majid I completely associate from the
0:18:03 sky to be honest I believe this guy
0:18:05 matches now was okay I genuine the
0:18:09 Muslims we have to understand this now
0:18:11 it's not productive having someone who's
0:18:13 so hated in the Muslim community seen as
0:18:15 a sellout that's familiar excommunicated
0:18:17 by the majority of people he's not going
0:18:19 to do any good in counterterrorism it's
0:18:22 only for the Muslims our tradition is
0:18:23 that delve into revelation we're going
0:18:25 to do the best in this regard we should
0:18:27 learn from each other from a perspective
0:18:29 yeah