Londoniyyah - Part 14 - Individualism / 2 | Mohammed Hijab (2022-01-21) #

0:00:13 welcome to this session session number
0:00:15 nine on individualism and it's such an
0:00:17 important topic that we require two
0:00:19 sessions on it last time just to recap
0:00:21 we discussed what individualism was um
0:00:24 who remembers
0:00:25 what and what individualism
0:00:28 how can it be defined and what is it
0:00:29 that differentiates individualism for
0:00:32 from say collectivism
0:00:35 who remembers this
0:00:38 the individual
0:00:40 is the
0:00:41 believes that they're the master of
0:00:43 themselves
0:00:45 and um they own themselves basically so
0:00:48 that's good so these are some of the
0:00:49 presuppositions of individualism
0:00:51 self-ownership
0:00:52 right um
0:00:54 but what okay so let me ask you that
0:00:56 what differentiates individualism say
0:00:58 from collectivism
0:00:59 uh the individual individualist is more
0:01:03 uh
0:01:04 he's he advocates self-reliance yes and
0:01:07 um self-interest
0:01:10 and his nuclear family himself and his
0:01:12 nuclear family's interests above the
0:01:15 collective above the rest of the um
0:01:17 population right so this is a good point
0:01:19 so the individual is prioritizing
0:01:21 analysis above and beyond any collective
0:01:23 grouping
0:01:24 the family would actually could be
0:01:26 considered a group
0:01:29 a collective the smallest type of
0:01:30 collective that you can imagine so
0:01:32 individualism is even more atomistic if
0:01:34 you like than
0:01:37 than than to suggest a family unit
0:01:39 construction but absolutely so the point
0:01:42 you made was correct which is that
0:01:44 the main point here is that priority is
0:01:47 given to the individual's unit of
0:01:48 analysis
0:01:50 to
0:01:50 the collective and this is the most
0:01:52 famous type of debate now we're having
0:01:54 in
0:01:55 modern time which is that
0:01:57 the debate so-called debate between
0:01:58 individualism and collectivism
0:02:01 now we we discussed that there were
0:02:02 different types of individualism who
0:02:04 remembers what kind of individualism uh
0:02:07 what types of individualism there were
0:02:10 there was a methodological individualism
0:02:13 yes um so here um it just kind of talks
0:02:16 about um what the individual does
0:02:19 um
0:02:20 and it kind of just looks at the
0:02:22 individual and says these are the
0:02:24 priorities that an individual has as
0:02:26 opposed to
0:02:27 um ethical individualism which looks at
0:02:30 what the individual should be doing
0:02:32 based on their kind of priorities
0:02:34 self-interest right so it's more
0:02:36 descriptive than is prescriptive yeah
0:02:38 methodological individualism is it
0:02:41 is a description of how society
0:02:43 functions rather than
0:02:45 say
0:02:46 you know a prescription we have to think
0:02:48 about what differentiates and we've
0:02:50 covered this a few times here but this
0:02:52 will keep coming up and i think it's
0:02:53 very important that we identify what
0:02:57 differentiates a description of society
0:03:00 from um what what can be referred to as
0:03:03 normative ethics or teleological ethics
0:03:05 or
0:03:07 let's say consequentialist whatever it
0:03:08 may be yeah
0:03:10 what how do we know if something is now
0:03:12 become moral
0:03:13 from a description from a is to an or
0:03:16 how one this kind of almost solves the
0:03:18 question
0:03:18 how do we know when the movement has
0:03:20 been made
0:03:24 right so one word like should you know
0:03:26 good bad so these are moralizing terms
0:03:29 this is where individualism in in our
0:03:32 case here right moves from
0:03:34 methodological individualism
0:03:36 to say ethical individualism of some
0:03:38 sorts it could be liberal individualism
0:03:40 what else could it be what other kinds
0:03:42 of
0:03:43 uh marriages ideological marriages are
0:03:45 made with individualism and other
0:03:47 ideologies that we discovered last time
0:03:56 right great so we said there was a kind
0:03:58 of spectrum
0:04:00 and that individualism fits in to the
0:04:03 spectrum so like for example a very
0:04:05 famous type of individualism today is
0:04:07 liberal individualism
0:04:09 not least because liberalism is the
0:04:10 dominant ethic
0:04:11 okay and if you go more the same to the
0:04:14 right if you like on the spectrum
0:04:16 the furthest you can go is anarchism
0:04:18 because now you have no social contract
0:04:20 well now you have no government now you
0:04:22 have no dominant authority that's in
0:04:24 charge of you
0:04:25 so
0:04:26 that is
0:04:27 on one side of the spectrum but you you
0:04:29 also have
0:04:31 uh you know different types different
0:04:34 anything else you've spoken about that
0:04:35 you remember from your notes
0:04:41 um we kind of talked about uh how
0:04:44 individualism um
0:04:47 wouldn't be uh like is inconsistent with
0:04:50 a deterministic oh we're jumping now
0:04:51 we're comparing we're just saying what
0:04:52 kinds of individualism are there okay
0:04:55 yeah so think about the three
0:04:57 big thing we talk about politics we talk
0:04:59 about
0:05:01 something we talk about something else
0:05:04 no no no no
0:05:07 political yes is uh political is
0:05:11 connected to liberalism economic is
0:05:13 connected to capitalism
0:05:15 yeah you're definitely on the right
0:05:17 tracks but what you're right there
0:05:18 because what i was trying to say was the
0:05:19 tripartite kind of classification that
0:05:21 we usually have
0:05:22 is we have
0:05:24 political economic
0:05:26 and law social right
0:05:28 so individualism can be social
0:05:30 individualism it can be economic
0:05:31 individualism it can be political
0:05:32 individualism
0:05:34 okay
0:05:35 and so when we talk about individualism
0:05:37 in respect to the economy we're talking
0:05:40 about how an individual actor
0:05:42 operates i.e in the methodological
0:05:44 individualism and or should operate
0:05:47 within the state within the um
0:05:50 apparatus of an economy a supply-side
0:05:52 economy
0:05:54 whereas if we're talking about
0:05:57 political individualism now we're
0:05:59 speaking about how an individual actor
0:06:02 acts in or acts and or should act in the
0:06:06 political environment same thing with
0:06:07 social right
0:06:09 so just remember individualism is not a
0:06:11 standalone ideology
0:06:13 it can easily be
0:06:14 married to other ideologies that are out
0:06:16 there
0:06:17 you know
0:06:18 and we spoke about some of those
0:06:22 now today what we are going to speak
0:06:24 about because we we also spoke about
0:06:26 last time we spoke about what islam
0:06:28 the islamic system
0:06:30 and we talked about how there are
0:06:32 aspects of the islamic system which are
0:06:33 more collectivists
0:06:35 and there are aspects of the islamic
0:06:36 system which are more individualist in
0:06:38 the sense that
0:06:39 the unit of analysis is one person
0:06:42 eschatological aspects
0:06:44 that on the day of judgment will come as
0:06:46 individuals not as collectives
0:06:49 you know that the collective will not
0:06:51 really matter on the day of judgement
0:06:52 for example we talked even about jews
0:06:54 prudentially you know how sometimes the
0:06:57 individual can be favored over and above
0:07:00 the collective
0:07:01 in certain scenarios which uh
0:07:04 which we mentioned in usual who
0:07:05 remembers the scenarios that we talked
0:07:07 about
0:07:10 yeah so aloha you mentioned what tell me
0:07:12 what the scenario is there's three
0:07:14 people on the boat
0:07:15 and then
0:07:16 if one person would to jump off to save
0:07:19 the other two
0:07:20 not jump off but the other two to do one
0:07:22 kill
0:07:24 yeah so what did you say this is not
0:07:26 permissible why not because it doesn't
0:07:29 feel fulfilled the three categories yeah
0:07:31 well the three category criteria
0:07:34 yeah which means
0:07:35 uh for like applicable for everyone
0:07:37 right so it's in the clinic yeah yeah
0:07:40 what else
0:07:41 which means
0:07:43 just necessary right
0:07:45 and the last one was
0:07:48 okay
0:07:49 which means like
0:07:51 certain that's sure to happen uh we can
0:07:53 argue that is there anything
0:07:55 this is any such thing as katai
0:08:00 who is obviously
0:08:02 interested i don't want to go into
0:08:03 details but
0:08:04 his father didn't put
0:08:06 razzali in the book of uh
0:08:10 he didn't
0:08:16 he says there's no such thing as khata
0:08:18 everything everything is
0:08:21 everything even the existence of god is
0:08:23 which means yeah he said everything is
0:08:25 valuable which means that it's
0:08:26 everything is just hyperbole that's the
0:08:28 maximum you can get
0:08:30 so you know you could argue like
0:08:32 i mean this is a very difficult
0:08:33 statement obviously
0:08:35 uh we don't go into details here but the
0:08:37 point is is in for practical purposes if
0:08:40 something has a very very high
0:08:41 possibility
0:08:42 then this is what i'm guessing what the
0:08:45 the osu lease will be referring to as
0:08:46 yahini here something that's over 95
0:08:49 say
0:08:50 but even that is difficult to estimate
0:08:51 so if it doesn't fulfill these three
0:08:53 criterion
0:08:55 then you can't say it's possible and so
0:08:57 therefore sometimes the individual
0:08:58 interests will be prioritized over and
0:09:00 above what the collective interest even
0:09:02 in cases to do with jurisprudence so we
0:09:03 talked about situations where the
0:09:05 individual interest can be and we gave
0:09:07 another example which is a striking
0:09:08 example say for example you have a group
0:09:10 of people
0:09:11 five men
0:09:13 and they and the
0:09:15 some guy with a gun says look you've got
0:09:17 a young two-year-old here either you
0:09:19 gang rape or one of you rapes her oh
0:09:21 we're going to kill all of you
0:09:22 are they allowed to do that to her
0:09:25 so her interest is prioritized over
0:09:26 theirs because her in this case
0:09:31 her honor
0:09:32 is is something you cannot trespass
0:09:35 and there's no um
0:09:37 situation where in which you can
0:09:38 trespassing
0:09:40 he said
0:09:41 will terminate the entire community so
0:09:44 it is coolly
0:09:46 if you don't
0:09:47 read the
0:09:48 child you can't rape the child really
0:09:51 yeah
0:09:54 even if it's cool
0:09:55 in this case but yeah so this um there
0:09:58 are some things in islam you just never
0:09:59 can do
0:10:00 and that's one of them
0:10:04 uh the the point this is what this is
0:10:06 not me saying this but these these
0:10:07 examples are actually fleshed out and
0:10:09 this goes back to our lesson on what if
0:10:10 you remember
0:10:12 deontological versus consequentialist
0:10:14 sometimes we do think about
0:10:15 consequentialism sometimes we
0:10:17 we don't we think about deontology like
0:10:19 this is never you know you can never do
0:10:20 this all right so
0:10:22 today we're going to be speaking about
0:10:23 the criticisms of individualism we did a
0:10:25 bit of that last lesson
0:10:27 but we're going to flesh them out these
0:10:28 are not my criticisms these are
0:10:30 criticisms that have been written
0:10:32 by
0:10:34 some of the main proponents funny enough
0:10:35 of liberalism of conservatism of marxism
0:10:38 marx himself is in this list
0:10:40 and so what we're going to be doing is
0:10:41 we're simply going to be looking at some
0:10:43 of the main criticisms and discussing
0:10:45 them
0:10:46 okay some of them are stronger than
0:10:48 others
0:10:49 but that's simply today's lesson we're
0:10:50 going to be looking at we're going to be
0:10:51 fleshing out more what the criticism
0:10:54 criticisms are so i'm going to go with
0:10:55 the first one
0:10:57 this is a book that is called the myth
0:10:58 of individualism written by peter l
0:11:01 calero okay
0:11:03 now he introduces a murderous character
0:11:05 now we're gonna find out how to
0:11:06 pronounce his name
0:11:08 who knows how to pronounce his name
0:11:10 kasinsky
0:11:12 is that right
0:11:13 okay so kaczynski this is a murderous
0:11:15 character he's done all these bad things
0:11:16 yeah
0:11:18 and
0:11:19 and basically he he concludes by saying
0:11:20 that he has an extreme
0:11:22 he has an extreme commitment to
0:11:23 individualism
0:11:25 and this is the reason why his
0:11:26 intentional avoidance of personal
0:11:28 relationships you can go and see the
0:11:29 story anyway but
0:11:31 ask yourself are these features of
0:11:33 societies which you think are
0:11:34 individualistic number one
0:11:36 an intentional avoidance of personal
0:11:39 relationships
0:11:40 and i want you to think about japan here
0:11:42 i'm not sure if you know about japan
0:11:44 japan is if you know tokyo it's a mega
0:11:47 city but the biggest city in the world
0:11:48 in terms of population yeah
0:11:50 and i'm not sure if you know this
0:11:51 there's a phenomenon in japan where
0:11:53 where people are like
0:11:55 renting our friends have you heard of
0:11:56 this yeah
0:11:59 yeah yeah they're because they're so
0:12:00 lonely they live in this kind of cubicle
0:12:02 boxes
0:12:03 that they're renting and they have
0:12:04 friends that they used to come over and
0:12:06 you pay them for the day so you can
0:12:07 spend time with them because we're
0:12:08 social creatures right i think
0:12:10 psychologically we are told that we're
0:12:11 social creatures and if you don't give
0:12:13 yourself
0:12:14 a social environment to speak to people
0:12:16 and to give and take and all this kind
0:12:17 of thing you're going to go mad
0:12:19 so
0:12:20 this is a market opportunity obviously
0:12:22 japan is one of the biggest market
0:12:23 economies in the world
0:12:25 so they saw it and they said you can
0:12:26 rent a friend
0:12:28 uh obviously now we have you rent
0:12:30 boyfriends and girlfriends yeah escorts
0:12:31 this is a kind of
0:12:33 do you think that women and men that
0:12:35 that that
0:12:37 that buy escorts or sorry not buy them
0:12:39 but rent them out whatever however
0:12:41 whatever the phraseology is
0:12:44 you know use them use escorts
0:12:47 do you think they're only doing it do
0:12:48 you think that the only reason they're
0:12:49 doing it is because of sexual need
0:12:52 maybe it is maybe that's a huge part of
0:12:54 it maybe 80
0:12:55 but i think that you know if i were to
0:12:57 do some study which i don't think has
0:12:58 been done before i would also realize
0:13:00 that a lot of people that use them are
0:13:01 doing it because they're in extreme
0:13:02 states of loneliness they just want
0:13:04 someone to sit there and talk with them
0:13:06 it's a very similar thing we talk about
0:13:07 japan as if some alien culture we have
0:13:09 it right here in our doorstep in the
0:13:10 form of escorts you can what does escort
0:13:12 do what's this escort what do they do
0:13:15 what's your job i'm sitting here to
0:13:16 speak to this person
0:13:18 and obviously do some other services if
0:13:21 they want me to do them
0:13:26 anyway um this is
0:13:28 you know think about that so intentional
0:13:30 avoidance of personality why because is
0:13:33 there facilitation for personal
0:13:34 relationships or is it like going back
0:13:36 to japan example
0:13:38 you know you're living in these little
0:13:39 cubicles
0:13:40 there was a show that was done long time
0:13:42 ago it was called mega seas by andrew
0:13:44 marr
0:13:45 andrew martha guy a bbc guy very deep
0:13:47 voice
0:13:48 he had some controversy surrounding him
0:13:50 recently and he went to dhaka
0:13:54 well you know that right you're from it
0:13:55 you're from deca are you from facility
0:13:58 right so he went to dhaka yeah
0:14:01 and uh
0:14:02 and he he he kind of hung her he was
0:14:04 hanging around in the shanty towns in
0:14:06 dhaka
0:14:07 and then he went to um
0:14:09 tokyo and he was hanging around with
0:14:10 people in tokyo
0:14:12 and he said something in that in that
0:14:14 documentary that i will not forget
0:14:17 he said something to the effect of i'd
0:14:18 rather be but basically i'd rather be
0:14:20 magnesium here that they have as i'm
0:14:22 paraphrasing i don't know you know
0:14:23 something's the effect of they have more
0:14:25 of a community spirit this is like the
0:14:27 most atomized society i've ever been in
0:14:29 et cetera et cetera
0:14:31 why would you want to even though the
0:14:32 prosperity levels are very much higher
0:14:34 obviously in japan they're in bangladesh
0:14:37 in terms of like material but then the
0:14:39 question is would you really want to
0:14:40 live like that in a little box calling a
0:14:44 friend to pay them to come to see you
0:14:46 know you don't have that community
0:14:48 a community therefore that doesn't have
0:14:51 community as its priority
0:14:55 what kind of what kind of society is
0:14:56 that you go ask you know so the second
0:14:58 thing is
0:15:00 it's deliberate physical separation from
0:15:02 others
0:15:04 this happens now people physically
0:15:06 separate from other question is
0:15:08 is this because of individualism is it
0:15:10 because they think it's all because it's
0:15:11 our people intentionally let's bring
0:15:13 this to society do you think that people
0:15:15 are intentionally trying to separate
0:15:16 from other people very simple question
0:15:18 it's not really difficult right
0:15:19 the third thing is
0:15:21 the belief that he could outlive
0:15:25 sorry live out his life completely
0:15:26 independent of a larger community the
0:15:28 idea that actually i don't need friends
0:15:30 i don't need
0:15:31 and we hear this a lot in relationships
0:15:33 independence relationships
0:15:35 you know i don't need a man i don't need
0:15:37 this i can i can i don't mind eating
0:15:39 alone you know this kind of nonsense
0:15:40 rubbish talk
0:15:42 would you mean you don't need a man what
0:15:43 do you mean you don't need a
0:15:44 relationship that's not how you're built
0:15:46 the man or woman
0:15:48 um you know i don't need this i i can do
0:15:51 all by myself
0:15:53 this isolationist discourse
0:15:56 but once again to what extent do you
0:15:57 think this is prominent in the west over
0:15:59 and above other nations other
0:16:01 communities other
0:16:02 cultures
0:16:07 his solitary development of a personal
0:16:08 program of social reform and number five
0:16:11 his strategy to unilaterally impose his
0:16:13 ideas through a series of private access
0:16:16 that destroyed the lives of others now
0:16:17 this goes back to egoism we spoke about
0:16:19 egoism you don't care about other people
0:16:21 care about yourself and individualism
0:16:22 and egoism are very closely we say
0:16:25 they're not the same thing
0:16:26 but ego ethical egoism and individualism
0:16:30 like there's a fine line that separates
0:16:31 two
0:16:32 now
0:16:35 he then states freedom of choice and
0:16:37 self-determination are virtuous
0:16:38 principles but when selfish individual
0:16:40 interests threaten to destroy the common
0:16:42 good the limits of individualism are
0:16:44 exposed
0:16:47 i want to think about this these four or
0:16:49 five points
0:16:50 with the person next to you four or five
0:16:51 minutes and i want you to answer just
0:16:54 one question to what extent do you think
0:16:55 this applies to say great britain in the
0:16:56 united states
0:16:59 if you can generalize
0:17:01 the west west western culture western
0:17:02 europe and its extensions
0:17:04 to what extent
0:17:06 are these criticisms do you think
0:17:07 they're valid
0:17:08 from your own kind of experience from
0:17:10 your own
0:17:11 you know uh
0:17:12 interactions in the west you're not
0:17:14 bringing here
0:17:15 and we've got people that live in
0:17:16 different parts you live in spain
0:17:19 you've lived obviously in uh
0:17:21 okay that's not the west bank
0:17:24 but an outsider's perspective that's
0:17:25 actually quite good it's very important
0:17:26 and then the rest of um
0:17:28 obviously the uk
0:17:29 so um five minutes and come back here
0:17:33 all right let's get some contributions
0:17:34 from uh from the
0:17:37 people here
0:17:40 he's gonna start us up
0:17:44 uh yeah
0:17:46 so for number one uh me and tariq we got
0:17:50 uh person for personal avoidance of
0:17:52 relationship
0:17:54 um
0:17:55 seen the fact that even people are
0:17:57 deciding to move to mega cities for the
0:17:59 sake of opportunity and sake of you know
0:18:02 developing their own you know uh pocket
0:18:04 uh and not moving for the sake of you
0:18:06 know maybe finding you know a community
0:18:09 or a better community where they're able
0:18:11 to connect with more people um that was
0:18:14 one an example could be even when you go
0:18:16 into underground my personal experience
0:18:18 antarctic i think you can agree with me
0:18:20 going to the underground the lack of
0:18:21 manners from people lack of thank you
0:18:23 excuse me or even a hello
0:18:25 i'm not there to make friends with the
0:18:27 fact that they're being soaked
0:18:30 i'm not there to make friends but the
0:18:31 fact that they're being so rude and even
0:18:33 in some
0:18:34 examples quite aggressive come to show
0:18:35 that they're totally not um interested
0:18:38 in making relationships
0:18:40 and avoiding it now i actually see
0:18:43 exactly what he's talking about
0:18:45 nana is it's very it's very odd it's
0:18:47 very odd it's it's actually weird
0:18:49 behavior i i think it's sociologically
0:18:51 weird behavior like a lot of the time
0:18:52 where you're sitting with someone
0:18:54 the way that people just want to avoid
0:18:57 communication
0:18:58 in this country compared to other
0:19:00 countries is is i don't know
0:19:02 who who here
0:19:04 has felt like that's something that's
0:19:05 you know
0:19:06 that is the case
0:19:08 think of any country you guys are from
0:19:10 yeah yeah yeah i've seen i've got a lot
0:19:13 of friends who come here from say
0:19:15 uh southern europe
0:19:17 and they they have uh you know when they
0:19:19 when they see people quiet in the buses
0:19:22 and trains they they get you know
0:19:24 anxiety because of that so it's
0:19:26 definitely not it's it's i think it's
0:19:28 this is more a northern european problem
0:19:31 than it is a southern european problem
0:19:33 yeah people in greece italy and spain
0:19:35 they're not like this they're out there
0:19:37 yeah they're out speaking and talking
0:19:39 i've been i haven't been to uh italy or
0:19:41 spa especially to portugal
0:19:43 and i just see them outside eating a bit
0:19:45 it's a little bit more like
0:19:46 like north africa
0:19:48 you know i don't know what do you guys
0:19:50 think
0:19:51 i think it's just a london thing or even
0:19:53 with big seat like even new york i've
0:19:54 heard i've seen youtube
0:19:56 i was living outside london for a bit
0:19:57 and uh i was walking and someone would
0:20:00 say to you good morning
0:20:02 it's a salutation you don't get a
0:20:03 salutation we get told about this what
0:20:05 happens in muslim countries but it does
0:20:06 happen outside of london where people
0:20:08 move for the sake of having more land
0:20:10 and having a better community not here
0:20:15 yeah
0:20:16 there are some muslim countries like
0:20:17 this i don't know about you tell me
0:20:18 about the subcontinent because i'll be
0:20:20 honest with you i'm going to tell you
0:20:21 share an experience with me this is
0:20:23 maybe going a bit of scripting but
0:20:25 sometimes when i go into a mosque and
0:20:27 it's like a bengali mosque actually you
0:20:28 should help as well
0:20:30 you say you say
0:20:31 no i'm saying
0:20:36 because of individualism i think that's
0:20:38 small because of like nationalism and
0:20:40 because you're foreign like do you think
0:20:41 that's what it is it's not individuals
0:20:44 but you don't let me go anymore because
0:20:45 the size of it gives away
0:21:00 i think it's young people because all
0:21:01 the olders have that kind of thing where
0:21:03 they always want you to talk to them and
0:21:04 even if you do they'll give you like a
0:21:05 dead reply they'll be like yeah
0:21:08 and i would only give you an i could not
0:21:10 go to sumani mosques for example
0:21:12 like i'll go to haze and study it's very
0:21:14 like the vibe is just a lot different
0:21:15 they're more lively they always greet
0:21:17 you be more welcoming and stuff that's
0:21:19 just what i've experienced but you know
0:21:20 tell us about africa tell us about
0:21:22 sub-saharan africa got myself yeah have
0:21:24 you been there yeah i've been i've been
0:21:26 okay and tell me like compare
0:21:28 your interactions
0:21:29 in sub-saharan africa
0:21:31 no so yeah so when we went uh this was
0:21:33 like two years ago um walking in the
0:21:35 village where like my father grew up in
0:21:37 stuff yeah
0:21:38 and like obviously my father like he
0:21:40 goes back and forth but he's since he
0:21:42 moved to the uk sorry it's uganda yeah
0:21:43 okay so he left 20 years ago but like um
0:21:47 it was really strange because you're
0:21:48 walking down the street and you say they
0:21:49 ask what's your surname yeah they know
0:21:51 my surname and they know who like my dad
0:21:52 my dad is and his grandfather is and
0:21:54 everyone's like saying hello and people
0:21:55 are like you know you guys are about to
0:21:56 give you like food and stuff and it's
0:21:58 like a survivor when you go to the
0:21:59 masjid and like everybody's like saying
0:22:00 islam what are you coming after the
0:22:01 salah like you know like you hear like
0:22:03 an explosion of noise everyone's like
0:22:04 hugging and it's not like it's like it's
0:22:06 like it's aid but it's not like it's
0:22:08 just like a running ball that deep like
0:22:10 yeah that was going on the train in
0:22:11 there
0:22:17 but like on that on that point about
0:22:18 london though yeah because we were
0:22:19 talking a bit about this like
0:22:21 like especially when you go like central
0:22:22 london yeah like especially like in
0:22:24 these companies and stuff like that
0:22:25 there's people who are like they're
0:22:27 willing to backstab whoever it is like
0:22:29 it's like a competition in it yeah it's
0:22:31 like they're trying to get to the top of
0:22:32 a company they don't care about making
0:22:34 friends like if if you're close to them
0:22:36 it's just until you you stop being
0:22:37 useful then they throw you to the side
0:22:39 isn't it i'll tell you a story actually
0:22:40 on this point i used to work i'm not
0:22:42 going to mention another company but i
0:22:43 used to work as a
0:22:44 in a financial advisory firm okay and uh
0:22:48 basically it was like 97 white it was a
0:22:51 white company there was like two black
0:22:53 people and one scottish guy who
0:22:55 considered himself an outsider
0:22:58 ginger as well yeah
0:23:00 uh so other people consider him as part
0:23:02 of the 97 yeah
0:23:04 and i think one asian guy
0:23:06 but you know he anyway i'm not going to
0:23:07 say anything right but
0:23:09 so that's the thing i was i was working
0:23:11 i was i was young in my early 20s
0:23:15 and you know what it is is that you have
0:23:16 to build up and then they get they give
0:23:18 you an exam it's a financial like it's
0:23:20 fsa exam so you become
0:23:22 qualified to give
0:23:24 financial advice and stuff like that
0:23:26 so i had my bosses and stuff and this
0:23:29 was a doggy dog environment
0:23:31 and
0:23:33 for those who know me i'm quite
0:23:34 confrontationally sometimes you know i
0:23:36 was um quite aggressive in getting sales
0:23:38 for them and you know helping them out
0:23:40 and whatever but then after a few weeks
0:23:42 i just i was considering you know
0:23:44 promotion and you know considering you
0:23:46 know these things i started speaking to
0:23:47 them and say what this you know this
0:23:49 scottish guy's been here for some time
0:23:51 how long has he been here for two years
0:23:53 and he's in my same position as me which
0:23:55 is like the entry guy you know before
0:23:57 so i spoke to one of the bosses i said
0:23:59 when do you reckon you promote him
0:24:01 he looked at me sighs sniggering
0:24:03 he said promote him once on that this
0:24:05 guy's not going to be provided you know
0:24:06 kind of thing you know i said if that's
0:24:08 what you're saying about here but i was
0:24:09 thinking about what you think about me
0:24:11 you know it's
0:24:12 so the point of the matter is what i've
0:24:14 realized in that environment is a
0:24:16 corporate environment in liverpool
0:24:17 street like you know central london and
0:24:18 i've been there for years actually
0:24:20 my first uh
0:24:22 occupational thing was working there
0:24:24 absolutely bro it's it's cutthroat
0:24:27 environment
0:24:28 cutthroat environment
0:24:30 and everyone's trying to finish everyone
0:24:32 off
0:24:33 it genuinely it feels like a royal
0:24:35 rumble you know wwe f royal rumble we're
0:24:38 trying to throw each other off and this
0:24:39 and that
0:24:40 and that
0:24:41 okay okay this is this is true but does
0:24:43 that represent the whole of the west no
0:24:45 we can't we can't extrapolate that
0:24:46 outward to the cities and the towns and
0:24:48 whatever that is genuinely an
0:24:50 environment where it's doggy dog and
0:24:52 maybe individual is a nice worse
0:24:56 right but how to what extent can that
0:24:58 kind of thing be generalized do you
0:25:00 think
0:25:01 that's a corporate specific thing
0:25:04 because i work like in the lab you tell
0:25:05 me i look like in the lab right yes
0:25:08 it's a cancer research center so
0:25:10 everyone there works like it's majority
0:25:12 white as it as well i'd say i'm not the
0:25:14 only asian person there but they're more
0:25:17 a lot cheaper
0:25:18 they're all no no no i work in the lab
0:25:20 okay okay
0:25:21 okay that's good yeah but it's it's more
0:25:25 of a thing but everyone has their own
0:25:26 role everyone helps each other i think
0:25:27 this is a different environment you know
0:25:29 cancer research if there's atomism going
0:25:31 on there's no sense of teamwork i have
0:25:33 no hope
0:25:35 for the west but you know yeah i think
0:25:36 it's a little bit different you know
0:25:37 when everyone's trying to compete for
0:25:39 commission or whatever it is that they
0:25:40 were trying to make it in in the
0:25:42 corporate environment series i think is
0:25:43 it it's definitely a little bit
0:25:44 different but just let me tell you
0:25:46 something right and this once again this
0:25:48 is personal experience they're very
0:25:49 important to us
0:25:50 i went to my mom's house recently you
0:25:52 know um and outside obviously there's
0:25:54 her neighbors and stuff one of the uh
0:25:57 houses police were coming to the door i
0:25:59 think what's going on here police like
0:26:01 two three police officers came into the
0:26:02 door and stuff like that and opening the
0:26:04 door and stuff like this
0:26:06 and
0:26:07 what i was being told was that
0:26:09 they're opening the door because she has
0:26:10 not been visited by anybody for two
0:26:12 three weeks and we haven't heard from
0:26:13 the woman for two three weeks and she's
0:26:14 an elderly woman
0:26:15 so they thought she i don't know i
0:26:17 actually don't even know if she had died
0:26:18 or not
0:26:19 whether they found out that she had died
0:26:21 in the house or not but the extent to
0:26:23 which she's been neglected like the care
0:26:26 the old um what you call the care homes
0:26:28 for the for elderly people in the
0:26:30 society the people people in there
0:26:32 is that something you can expect would
0:26:34 you imagine that in some areas of the
0:26:35 world inside
0:26:37 no chance no this is very unusual
0:26:39 it's very unusual like you ask somebody
0:26:42 in um
0:26:44 sub-saharan african asia i don't know
0:26:46 you tell me in sri lanka
0:26:49 do you have that in sri lanka no no
0:26:51 people fight over actually looking at
0:26:52 their parents there you have it
0:26:54 they have it bro it's very very very
0:26:56 unusual
0:26:58 and the west has shrunk the shoulders to
0:26:59 it i don't know i see these kinds of
0:27:01 examples are very clear because
0:27:02 obviously the covert pandemic has i
0:27:04 think it's exposed the situation even
0:27:06 more
0:27:07 like it's really exposed the situation
0:27:08 like to the extent which uh elderly
0:27:11 populations are being disregarded in but
0:27:13 is this is this a byproduct of
0:27:14 individualism
0:27:17 it's like i've got nothing to do with
0:27:18 him i've got my thing and they're doing
0:27:20 their thing it's not like oh they've
0:27:22 looked after me i have to look after
0:27:23 them there's no sense of family
0:27:24 obligation as you would in other places
0:27:26 other cultures
0:27:29 i think people are starting to notice it
0:27:30 and it's so we're talking about this is
0:27:31 quite ironic here because you know a lot
0:27:32 of especially on like say like the right
0:27:34 side of politics like they'll talk about
0:27:36 how we were losing like our community
0:27:37 character and all that kind of stuff and
0:27:39 what they'll do is is they'll point the
0:27:40 finger at migrant communities and they
0:27:42 say that it's because of the migrants
0:27:43 it's because of them that we've lost
0:27:44 that kind of community spirit but if you
0:27:46 look within migrant communities though
0:27:47 yeah people who still kind of have that
0:27:49 ethic within themselves that you know
0:27:50 like you have to you you have to take
0:27:52 care of your parents and that kind of
0:27:53 thing they don't have an issue with that
0:27:55 so it's like your point you want to
0:27:56 point the finger at migrants for things
0:27:58 that you know are really coming from
0:28:00 like the philosophy that's like sort of
0:28:02 become prevalent within the land which
0:28:03 is a culture of taking care of myself
0:28:06 and looking after my own interests and
0:28:07 that kind of thing i mean that's why you
0:28:08 see the worst in a corporate environment
0:28:10 because it takes all of those kind of
0:28:12 selfish traits and it like it
0:28:13 supercharges them and you have to do
0:28:14 that in order to be successful
0:28:18 you know tv shows like um the apprentice
0:28:21 they actually show people backstabbing
0:28:23 each other and you know it's scented
0:28:25 it's become an entertainment for them
0:28:27 you know it's an ideology that they
0:28:29 actively promote it's on a prime time tv
0:28:32 if you want to be successful this is how
0:28:34 you have to be absolutely i think it's
0:28:36 it's this con
0:28:38 false confidence culture like you know
0:28:39 you have to put your chest out and
0:28:41 you know and step on your opponents and
0:28:43 those kind of things it's definitely
0:28:44 something which permeates to
0:28:46 the rest of society
0:28:48 from my experience it has been i mean
0:28:50 you guys are concurring and definitely
0:28:52 in comparison with other cultures
0:28:53 i think this is definitely um something
0:28:55 that the west should pay attention to uh
0:28:58 let's go to the next
0:29:00 slide karl marx karl marx obviously
0:29:02 we're gonna very important person we're
0:29:05 gonna be uh covering him in more depth
0:29:07 but he actually has some things to say
0:29:10 about
0:29:11 individualism obviously he is uh
0:29:14 the father of one of the most
0:29:15 collectivist ideologies which is
0:29:16 communism
0:29:18 uh or marxism really well he's written
0:29:20 the communist manifesto he's written
0:29:21 many different books
0:29:22 and uh
0:29:24 this is what he has to say on the issue
0:29:25 he says the human being is the most
0:29:27 literal sense is in the most literal
0:29:29 sense a political animal
0:29:32 not merely a gregarious animal but an
0:29:35 animal which can individuate itself
0:29:38 only in the midst of society now
0:29:39 individuation be careful and this word
0:29:41 is a key word
0:29:43 individuation is a word used in
0:29:45 psychology
0:29:47 and people equivocate it with uh this
0:29:49 term
0:29:50 so individuation is used by young carl
0:29:53 jung
0:29:54 and when he refers to the word it's like
0:29:56 the word ontology or deontology it's one
0:29:59 of those words that depending on what
0:30:01 subject matter you're talking about
0:30:02 we're talking about completely different
0:30:03 things
0:30:04 when young
0:30:05 or a psychoanalyst like him refer to
0:30:07 individuation they're talking about
0:30:09 when someone moves away from the family
0:30:12 looking after them and they start to
0:30:13 discover themselves
0:30:15 and this basically starts to grow up
0:30:17 and
0:30:19 it's a process of individuation seems a
0:30:21 very positive thing and it's a necessary
0:30:23 part of the
0:30:24 development of a human being this is not
0:30:26 what's being referred to here
0:30:28 this is uh individuation here is by
0:30:31 marx's it's a different idea altogether
0:30:33 so beware if you if you read the word
0:30:35 individuation in psychological
0:30:36 literature it's different to reading in
0:30:39 politically philos philosophical
0:30:40 literature
0:30:42 anyway that's just an important point
0:30:43 here
0:30:45 production by an isolated individual
0:30:48 outside outside society a rare exception
0:30:51 which may occur when a civilized person
0:30:54 in whom the social forces already
0:30:56 dynamic dynamically present is cast by
0:30:59 accident into the wilderness
0:31:02 is as much an absurdity
0:31:04 as is the development of language
0:31:05 without individuals living together and
0:31:07 talking to each other it's a very strong
0:31:09 point
0:31:10 he's saying that the assumption of
0:31:13 being able to do anything alone
0:31:15 is absurd
0:31:16 just as the assumption of being able to
0:31:18 develop a language by yourself is absurd
0:31:20 how can you develop
0:31:21 language itself is impossible to be
0:31:23 developed
0:31:25 i mean if we talk about human language
0:31:27 the whole purpose of it is to
0:31:28 communicate with other people
0:31:30 right so the idea of having a language
0:31:33 with one person imagine there's one
0:31:34 person in the world
0:31:35 trying to create a language it's a
0:31:37 useless
0:31:38 language because it doesn't it cannot
0:31:40 it's not just it doesn't it cannot serve
0:31:42 its function so what marx is saying is
0:31:44 that this idea that you can individually
0:31:46 can abstract the human being and isolate
0:31:48 them from the rest of society is as
0:31:51 useless as to consider
0:31:52 that you can basically
0:31:54 create a language with one person it's
0:31:56 as absurd as that and the way he's
0:31:59 the force of the argument there i think
0:32:00 is well uh felt
0:32:03 he continues he says man is not an
0:32:05 abstract being
0:32:06 squatting outside the world man is in
0:32:09 the human world the state
0:32:11 society and this is goes back to the the
0:32:13 point that sheikh was talking about
0:32:16 when he talked about if you can remember
0:32:18 do you remember the way he said
0:32:19 the poem
0:32:22 bring it out and then just tell me when
0:32:23 you bring it there there was some abiet
0:32:26 that he was talking about in the uh
0:32:28 the the the
0:32:30 where he was talking about how can you
0:32:32 do this alone basically you know the
0:32:33 sheikh was mentioning the same kind of
0:32:34 point as marx is mentioning you know
0:32:38 so this is important okay
0:32:41 what do you think of uh of that before
0:32:43 we move on to edinburgh what do you
0:32:44 think of this particular criticism any
0:32:46 comments on that
0:32:48 any pushback on that in fact
0:32:50 what would you what do you think an
0:32:52 individualist would say back to
0:32:54 marx try and uh
0:32:57 challenge ourselves a little bit here
0:32:58 what would an individual reply to marx
0:33:03 have you got a poem yeah
0:33:05 tell us
0:33:19 so where does the individual is to get
0:33:21 his food from
0:33:22 where
0:33:24 and how does he himself
0:33:26 uh drink water or get married and
0:33:29 yeah marriage would be meaningless by
0:33:31 himself meaningless by himself yeah
0:33:33 nowadays they're marrying themselves i
0:33:34 guess i saw something on the newspaper
0:33:37 this is nonsense right keep going
0:33:42 traveling on boats
0:33:44 not only making the boat itself right so
0:33:46 money all these industries it requires
0:33:48 teamwork and so
0:33:50 in order for them to to have a
0:33:51 functional society you have to have
0:33:52 collectives of some sort otherwise the
0:33:55 site would not be functional
0:33:57 any point on uh on what mark said uh
0:34:00 could you say like like it's impossible
0:34:02 to be an individual without a society
0:34:04 because you can't manifest certain
0:34:06 things
0:34:07 like marriage
0:34:08 so marx would say it wouldn't put it in
0:34:10 that language marx would say that an
0:34:11 individual understood by themselves
0:34:15 basically that the individual cannot be
0:34:16 understood by themselves that cannot be
0:34:19 abstracted from their interdependent
0:34:20 environment they are independent they're
0:34:22 interdependent by nature they can't just
0:34:23 be abstracted when you abstract an
0:34:25 individual by themselves you have a
0:34:27 meaningless notion almost
0:34:29 you can't analyze society like that so
0:34:31 he's attacking methodological
0:34:33 individualism not just ethical
0:34:35 individualism you know
0:34:37 um yeah he admits that one can
0:34:39 individuate himself or herself within
0:34:42 society right
0:34:44 so
0:34:45 wouldn't an individual say that's what
0:34:46 we mean by individualism not like no i
0:34:49 wouldn't say this
0:34:50 this is what this is what psychoanalyst
0:34:51 would say
0:34:52 like remember individuation hears
0:34:55 in the psychological terms
0:34:57 um meaning development and you know
0:34:59 coming out of the protective
0:35:02 you know cocoon of your parents and your
0:35:04 father and your mother and you're
0:35:05 becoming your own self and
0:35:07 this this is not what's referred to as
0:35:08 individuation and this type of
0:35:10 literature
0:35:11 now edwin burke
0:35:13 had very interesting edmund burke this
0:35:15 is a very important name in fact he's
0:35:16 one of the conservative fathers of
0:35:18 conservatism okay
0:35:21 um conservatism is an ideology which is
0:35:23 worth studying which is not on our list
0:35:25 because it's not you know
0:35:27 really neoconservatism is a form of
0:35:29 liberalism okay it's a it's it's one
0:35:32 permutation of liberalism
0:35:33 but conservatism as a whole like the
0:35:36 tories the conservative party and stuff
0:35:39 they actually have their roots back to a
0:35:41 person like edmund burke so edinburgh is
0:35:43 an important name he uh
0:35:45 he states in this regard
0:35:49 if everyone is self-interest
0:35:51 is or interested then that will crumble
0:35:54 that society will be crumbled away and
0:35:56 be disconnected into the dust and powder
0:35:58 of individuality look at the strong
0:36:01 expressions there
0:36:03 he says it will be an unsocial uncivil
0:36:05 unconnected chaos of elementary
0:36:08 principles
0:36:09 such that a theory of individual rights
0:36:12 is to pave the way for anarchy obviously
0:36:15 he doesn't he's not saying that in a
0:36:16 positive sense
0:36:18 but he has something to say about
0:36:19 anarchy as well
0:36:21 basically he he says if you have anarchy
0:36:23 this is his criticism
0:36:25 if you have an anarchical system
0:36:28 then this actually creates tyranny his
0:36:30 idea is that because in an anarchical
0:36:32 system
0:36:33 the most powerful is the first of the
0:36:35 survival of the first
0:36:38 if
0:36:39 you know there's something called social
0:36:40 darwinism which was obviously not
0:36:41 related directly to this by a man called
0:36:44 herbert spencer
0:36:45 he developed the ideas of what he
0:36:46 referred to as social darwinism but if
0:36:48 you going back to hobbs if you remember
0:36:50 hobbes
0:36:51 it seems to me like
0:36:52 edward edmund burke has a very similar
0:36:55 conception of
0:36:56 the state of nature
0:36:58 as uh
0:37:00 thomas hobbes and he's basically saying
0:37:02 that if you have a society where it's
0:37:03 anarchical then you're going to have the
0:37:06 rule of the strongest you know you're
0:37:08 going to have the strongest people that
0:37:09 will take advantage of that situation
0:37:12 so he's saying that because remember
0:37:15 he's talking about the french revolution
0:37:16 at this point which happened in the late
0:37:18 18th century
0:37:19 and he and obviously the revolutionists
0:37:22 were against the catholic church
0:37:24 naturally right but he was saying that
0:37:26 the catholic church acts as a buffer
0:37:29 between the individuals and the
0:37:32 government
0:37:33 so in fact if you have groups this is
0:37:35 his argument if you think about it
0:37:37 it's actually quite a powerful argument
0:37:39 right he's saying if you have groups
0:37:40 which are not governmental
0:37:42 like the catholic church for example
0:37:44 right or you have other groups yeah
0:37:46 which are not strictly the
0:37:48 government if you have groups these
0:37:51 groups act as a buffer between the
0:37:54 people and the government
0:37:56 such that the government cannot be
0:37:57 tyrannical
0:37:58 in as much the same way as they would be
0:38:00 able to otherwise
0:38:02 in
0:38:02 a uh say an anarchical system or if not
0:38:05 the government it would be the most
0:38:06 powerful they would not be able to do
0:38:08 the same thing because you have that
0:38:09 which checks them
0:38:11 does that make sense so his argument is
0:38:14 if you if you just have an article
0:38:16 system you're going to have the
0:38:17 strongest rule strongest ones are going
0:38:19 to rule and so in an ironic way he would
0:38:22 argue you'd have authoritarianism
0:38:25 you see the irony there because you
0:38:27 obviously
0:38:29 you're trying to create you're trying to
0:38:30 get rid of it but you're creating it by
0:38:32 getting rid of it
0:38:34 do you see the irony there right
0:38:36 so
0:38:37 he continues and says that so these
0:38:39 intermediary groups act as a buffer
0:38:40 against despotism
0:38:44 um so
0:38:46 let's
0:38:47 let's discuss this actually for a little
0:38:49 bit we'll have a five minute break and
0:38:51 let's talk about
0:38:53 uh
0:38:54 about this
0:38:55 i should mention also that when i was
0:38:56 talking about the spectrum anarchism
0:38:58 would be more on the left obviously it's
0:38:59 left wing it's far left right
0:39:01 then i mentioned far right but that was
0:39:03 not in the political sense but obviously
0:39:05 if we talk about political spectrum
0:39:06 anarchism will be enough the question is
0:39:09 to what extent is my question to what
0:39:12 extent do you think edmund edmund
0:39:14 burke's criticism
0:39:16 of individualistic anarchism
0:39:19 is correct
0:39:21 the criticism that says if you have an
0:39:22 anarchical system
0:39:24 then that would itself create despotism
0:39:26 that will itself create an authoritarian
0:39:27 system because you have the survivors of
0:39:29 the strongest you don't have these other
0:39:30 groups which be able to pull the reins
0:39:33 of you know
0:39:34 the that particular strong
0:39:36 or collection of
0:39:38 strong
0:39:39 actors and by the way just to add this
0:39:42 can be politically strong actors i.e
0:39:44 through the military or or not military
0:39:47 but they are actually having weapons and
0:39:48 so on
0:39:49 or it can be economically strong actors
0:39:52 so in economics the phrase oligarchies
0:39:54 are monopolies
0:39:57 so think about that five minutes and
0:39:59 we'll come back here
0:40:02 let's uh let's see what do you think do
0:40:04 you think what he's saying makes sense
0:40:05 or do you think it does not make sense
0:40:08 or to what extent do you think it makes
0:40:10 sense
0:40:14 um so his point about um having a
0:40:17 non-governmental figure that would
0:40:19 uh kind of be a buffer to despotism i
0:40:22 would say that's kind of a
0:40:24 uh kind of an assumption that he's made
0:40:26 there but that necessarily won't be true
0:40:28 because you can have and it's happened
0:40:30 in the past where you have
0:40:32 the government
0:40:33 uh working together side by side with
0:40:37 uh for example like the church
0:40:39 number bear in mind
0:40:41 are you talking about
0:40:43 the government you're right okay yeah
0:40:45 yeah yeah so so um in this example um
0:40:49 even though a person he's expecting that
0:40:51 the church would act as a buffer towards
0:40:53 that despotism when actuality they could
0:40:55 actually be the ones to
0:40:57 be in absolute power
0:40:58 so it can be used against him you can
0:41:00 say that actually it's that's assuming
0:41:02 that they have an intention to check the
0:41:04 government and that they're not being
0:41:06 checked by the government or that
0:41:08 they're not being
0:41:09 uh you know told by the government what
0:41:11 to do in the first place
0:41:12 they're not puppets of the government
0:41:13 and that's absolutely true that's
0:41:15 correct because we do see
0:41:16 religious institutions acting as puppets
0:41:19 for the government
0:41:20 that's very there are assumptions that
0:41:22 have to be made either way
0:41:24 yeah go ahead
0:41:25 sometimes
0:41:27 governments working for
0:41:30 this kind of like church or
0:41:32 for instance in country like spain
0:41:35 back in the years
0:41:36 the dictator was working for the church
0:41:38 or was part of the church yeah catholic
0:41:40 church
0:41:41 illustrious history obviously it was
0:41:44 uh one of the if not it was the most
0:41:46 powerful you know organization so
0:41:48 definitely you could and that's why one
0:41:50 of the reasons why it broke down
0:41:52 actually well it led to the protestant
0:41:54 reformation
0:41:55 people that want to give their money to
0:41:57 this institution that was you know
0:41:59 one-tenth of the
0:42:01 earnings or whatever it was yeah you
0:42:02 know some kings like uh
0:42:05 back in the middle east
0:42:06 were
0:42:08 were there because of the church
0:42:10 like they had no power other than the
0:42:12 church or the pope at the time well you
0:42:14 know you know the history of this
0:42:15 country right you know with uh king
0:42:17 henry i'm sure most of you have
0:42:20 he's the eighth you know and the
0:42:21 separation and
0:42:23 the divorces and all these kind of
0:42:24 things and and how
0:42:26 a lot of that was because of these kinds
0:42:28 of tensions that existed between the
0:42:29 church and the state
0:42:30 you know and why should we have another
0:42:32 this kind of outside church
0:42:34 coming into our country and telling us
0:42:36 what to do and us giving them money
0:42:38 you know for what we can just establish
0:42:40 our own thing and obviously
0:42:41 protestantism fit like a hand and a
0:42:43 glove to
0:42:44 that and in fact this is a very
0:42:45 important if you haven't studied it
0:42:47 uh a important part of history which you
0:42:49 should know about which is a protestant
0:42:51 reformation
0:42:52 okay which has
0:42:54 uh kind of split headed by martin luther
0:42:56 not martin luther king you know some
0:42:59 no we're not talking about 1960s martin
0:43:01 luther in the 1600s yes
0:43:03 and uh and this was one of his main
0:43:05 arguments look at the corruption of the
0:43:07 of the church he said you know look at
0:43:08 the corruption and then why we should
0:43:10 why should we give them a tenth of our
0:43:11 income
0:43:12 you know and so on and so forth and
0:43:14 obviously some some kings found this
0:43:15 very attractive king henry being one of
0:43:17 them obviously as we know after king
0:43:19 henry viii there were other kings who
0:43:21 rejected what he has to say including
0:43:23 his
0:43:24 uh successors uh james a very important
0:43:27 one who went back to the catholic church
0:43:29 went back and forth
0:43:31 you know
0:43:32 i wonder
0:43:34 what opinion i think i think the good
0:43:36 reforms like they know for the time they
0:43:38 were really good
0:43:47 look i mean
0:43:48 everyone had their agenda
0:43:50 this is my opinion he had his agenda and
0:43:53 the catholic church had their agenda
0:43:55 you know and his agenda fit many of the
0:43:57 western european countries agenda which
0:43:59 is why you had
0:44:00 30 years war which is probably
0:44:03 you know one of the most deadly and
0:44:06 bloody wars that has ever taken place in
0:44:08 human history
0:44:09 i'm not sure if you know this war
0:44:12 and it was a lot of it was actually
0:44:13 predicated on the on the they talked to
0:44:16 you know there's never been a sunni
0:44:18 shiite equivalent to the 30 years war
0:44:20 ever ever you know the the big um safine
0:44:24 and gemma and all this
0:44:26 how many people died three hundred five
0:44:27 hundred thousand two thousand
0:44:29 no look at go and go and research the
0:44:31 thirty years or hundred years where all
0:44:32 these wars that took place after the
0:44:34 protestant reformations and because
0:44:36 of these tensions that took place and a
0:44:38 lot of it is like you mentioned it's
0:44:39 because of the catholic church
0:44:42 and the feeling of corruption in the
0:44:43 catholic church there was a feeling
0:44:45 whether that was a correct feeling or
0:44:46 not is up for debate no problem you can
0:44:47 have that debate but it was definitely a
0:44:49 feeling and this led to the collapse of
0:44:51 that church
0:44:54 you know uh
0:44:55 go yeah
0:44:56 i think the same thing applies when we
0:44:58 talk about that um
0:45:00 the same thing will apply
0:45:01 he says anarchy will lead to a real want
0:45:05 of
0:45:06 leadership
0:45:07 same thing can apply as we just
0:45:08 discussed now
0:45:09 uh totalitarianism
0:45:12 or a tyranny could lead to a real want
0:45:15 of freedom or absolutely so i think it
0:45:19 plays plays both ways so i need
0:45:21 something in the middle
0:45:23 um yeah
0:45:25 no that's a real good point when you're
0:45:26 in a state where you're under
0:45:28 authoritarian regime that's why
0:45:30 you have the rise and fall of great
0:45:32 empire you know books written
0:45:34 richly blamed the rise and fall of great
0:45:36 empire and this is one of the reasons
0:45:38 why empires actually fall it happens not
0:45:40 always because of an outside force
0:45:42 coming in you know in
0:45:43 khaldon he has a book called
0:45:47 and in his book he actually tells us why
0:45:49 there's rise and falls of empires
0:45:51 he mentions one of the reasons where
0:45:52 people get too lavish it could be
0:45:54 authoritarianism it could be this it
0:45:55 could be that and then
0:45:57 there needs to be a revitalization of
0:45:59 the kind of community spirit sometimes
0:46:02 that happens through revolution we saw
0:46:03 that in islamic history without bassets
0:46:05 over the omegas obviously they had their
0:46:07 own kind of claims to lineage and
0:46:08 whatever but it was a revolution it was
0:46:10 you know it was it was an absolute
0:46:12 revolution revolution
0:46:15 or you know
0:46:17 and also
0:46:17 i don't like this kind of terms but
0:46:20 this is the reality of the situation so
0:46:21 so like you said it's a feeling of okay
0:46:24 well you you want to take control of us
0:46:25 we're going to revolt
0:46:29 marx and lenin obviously leninism which
0:46:31 happened as you guys know you know in
0:46:33 the early 20th century they're talking
0:46:34 about 1917 1919
0:46:37 you know lenin vladimir lenin you know
0:46:39 who basically led what you call a
0:46:40 vanguard revolutionary vanguard
0:46:43 you know this was probably the biggest
0:46:45 and most important vanguard that's taken
0:46:47 place in the last hundred years
0:46:49 because it was it actually shaped what
0:46:52 would be referred to as you know
0:46:54 the cold war they're after a bipolar
0:46:56 system
0:46:57 of governance she had you know the
0:46:59 russian you know the soviet union and
0:47:00 the year but how did that start it
0:47:02 started with this revolution we found
0:47:03 out
0:47:04 why because of the feeling of
0:47:05 authoritarianism
0:47:07 so on the point though let's go back to
0:47:08 the point uh the question of where
0:47:11 whether or not there will be perpetual
0:47:12 conflict
0:47:15 whether or not there will be perpetual
0:47:16 conflict in international relations and
0:47:18 you're studying this
0:47:21 it depends by the way i don't want to go
0:47:23 into tangent but there are there are
0:47:25 schools of thought in international
0:47:26 relations yeah
0:47:27 there are for example the two major ones
0:47:29 are being discussed in the books of
0:47:30 international relations are what we call
0:47:32 the realist school
0:47:34 they're called the realist school
0:47:36 and the liberal school okay
0:47:39 uh
0:47:40 you can look into those
0:47:42 there's defenders on both sides
0:47:44 but the idea is
0:47:46 that in a in a situation
0:47:48 where there are
0:47:49 people fighting each other or countries
0:47:51 fighting each other
0:47:52 countries fighting each other
0:47:54 how do you the question is how do you
0:47:56 achieve the maximum level of stability
0:48:00 so the liberal system says well you get
0:48:01 you it's cosmopolitanism you know you do
0:48:03 it through treaties and u.n and all
0:48:05 these kind of things but in reality
0:48:07 you have one superpower which in this
0:48:09 case is the united states of america
0:48:10 which makes it look like there's some
0:48:12 kind of
0:48:13 discussions going on but they are in
0:48:15 control fully in control i mean look at
0:48:17 the proportion of
0:48:18 seats that they have in a
0:48:20 power they have this proportionate level
0:48:22 of power they have in the u.n for
0:48:23 example compared to other nations even
0:48:24 big nations like russia and china
0:48:26 you know they have disproportionate it
0:48:28 is a superpower nation and this is
0:48:30 referred to by the way as pax americana
0:48:33 we are living in an age
0:48:35 which international relations especially
0:48:37 is referred to as pax americana why do
0:48:39 they call this pax americana
0:48:40 because it's a time where because you
0:48:42 have a superpower
0:48:44 the idea is that the other nations are
0:48:46 not going to fight each other because
0:48:48 these guys have got nuclear warheads
0:48:49 they'll finish you if you try it with
0:48:51 them
0:48:52 you know it's like having but it's
0:48:53 basically the pecking order it is a
0:48:55 pecking order this term the pecking
0:48:57 order came from birds pecking and which
0:49:00 ones at the top and so on this you have
0:49:02 a pecking order and you have america at
0:49:04 the top of the pecking order people are
0:49:06 going to respect that whether you like
0:49:08 it or not because they don't they're not
0:49:09 going to want to fight with someone with
0:49:10 nuclear warheads and that can finish you
0:49:12 in hiroshima nakasaki can end you
0:49:15 and do what they do even though they've
0:49:16 lost wars now and vietnam humiliation
0:49:18 afghanistan
0:49:20 but still they have nuclear warheads
0:49:23 still they are the they the united
0:49:25 states of america
0:49:27 13 times
0:49:29 more spending goes into their military
0:49:31 than the next 10 countries combined
0:49:34 can you am i just think about that for a
0:49:35 second 13 times more military spending
0:49:37 the next 10 countries combined
0:49:41 so this is a serious superpower and the
0:49:43 reason why they call it pax americana is
0:49:45 because they're not going to fight
0:49:46 you're not going to fight them because
0:49:48 they're too big and too strong but then
0:49:50 the theory goes this creates stability
0:49:53 it creates well it creates stability why
0:49:55 because
0:49:56 if there wasn't a big boss that was
0:49:58 taking care of business then everyone's
0:50:00 going to fight each other
0:50:01 that's that's how the theory goes right
0:50:03 everyone's going to fight each other
0:50:04 just to establish
0:50:06 who's the fitness who's the strongest
0:50:07 who's the best who should be in charge
0:50:08 who's the champion if you like who's the
0:50:10 heavyweight champion
0:50:12 you know that so there will be like
0:50:15 more uh and so what are the two verses
0:50:17 in the quran
0:50:21 okay shall i recite it for you i mean
0:50:23 let me let me give it to you and tell
0:50:25 you what it is and
0:50:27 the the quran actually alludes to these
0:50:28 kinds of issues yeah and in in bahrain
0:50:32 and it shows you like the quran
0:50:33 everything
0:50:34 goes back to quran sun everything is
0:50:38 like everything has been mentioned right
0:50:41 goliath the story of david and goliath
0:50:53 that
0:50:54 and did not allah check one set of
0:50:56 people by means of another the earth
0:50:58 would indeed be full of mischief but
0:51:00 allah is full of bounty to all the
0:51:02 worlds this happened when when david
0:51:04 beat the goliath
0:51:06 okay so the idea is
0:51:08 if sometimes war's requirement for peace
0:51:12 you know it's a necessary evil for it
0:51:15 and so
0:51:16 this on this point the idea of
0:51:19 establishing dominance in the hierarchy
0:51:21 is very
0:51:22 clearly mentioned the other verse
0:51:32 you know that there would there have
0:51:34 been destruction of the
0:51:36 the the synagogues and the churches
0:51:39 and masjids
0:51:41 if if this which by the way is a good
0:51:43 verse to show that you know
0:51:45 the islam doesn't doesn't encourage
0:51:47 destruction of these buildings
0:51:49 because why is it mentioning is you know
0:51:51 inferred
0:51:52 negative
0:51:53 you know
0:51:54 that these these if it hadn't been that
0:51:56 there's like you know some
0:51:58 uh thing that was in charge
0:52:00 there
0:52:01 or that if there were no checks put on
0:52:04 people that this would you'd have people
0:52:06 not being able to practice their
0:52:07 religion basically
0:52:08 whether it's christianity judaism or
0:52:10 islam for example
0:52:13 and so
0:52:15 the point is edmund burke makes a good
0:52:17 point but i would say this in order for
0:52:19 his point to be correct we must ensure
0:52:22 that people of equal strength
0:52:24 like we don't know like imagine you have
0:52:26 a society with five people one of them
0:52:28 is already
0:52:30 i don't know you have one adult four
0:52:31 children
0:52:33 the hierarchy is already set
0:52:34 you have one adult and four children the
0:52:36 hierarchy is already set the children
0:52:38 are gonna obey the adult and if not the
0:52:40 adult knows what to do
0:52:41 he'll physically discipline them or
0:52:43 something yeah
0:52:44 and the same thing can be said of
0:52:45 nations same thing could be said of
0:52:47 uh
0:52:48 you know whatever it is
0:52:50 but what if you have five strong
0:52:53 equally strength adults
0:52:56 then what edmund burke is talking about
0:52:58 or in fact this whole idea of perpetual
0:53:00 conflict is more likely
0:53:03 because
0:53:03 how you're going to establish hierarchy
0:53:05 without fight
0:53:07 and i think that
0:53:08 it does make sense but
0:53:10 in order for for us to know which is uh
0:53:13 more beneficial we'd have to know the
0:53:14 variables
0:53:16 now
0:53:18 the next slide is quite controversial
0:53:20 let's uh let's let's deal with it
0:53:24 these terrorists who obviously we have
0:53:26 to put disclaimers they're doing
0:53:27 monstrous acts we don't agree with it
0:53:29 blah blah blah all right
0:53:31 come on mario i feel like this is like
0:53:32 his almost we have to
0:53:34 we have to do this all the time right
0:53:36 and if people are aware of our content
0:53:38 they know that you know
0:53:39 they know where we stand on the issues
0:53:41 but a terrorist like say for example
0:53:43 somebody who goes and blows themselves
0:53:45 up
0:53:46 uh and he doesn't care about anyone else
0:53:47 you know or he kill or somebody somewhat
0:53:50 somebody else who kills this person or
0:53:52 that whatever you know
0:53:54 stab somebody
0:53:57 they are individualists in many in one
0:53:59 way because they are anarchists in that
0:54:01 sense because they don't care about the
0:54:02 law i mean they they are actually acting
0:54:05 completely
0:54:07 not caring about the consequences of the
0:54:09 law
0:54:12 that's the statement i'm making to what
0:54:13 extent do you think this this point can
0:54:15 be made
0:54:18 right there so that's that's the counter
0:54:19 right so i was going to say well you
0:54:21 just think about for a second right give
0:54:22 it two or three minutes speak to the
0:54:23 person next to you
0:54:24 and to what extent can someone make
0:54:26 these kinds of arguments can someone say
0:54:28 well a terrorist someone who's killing
0:54:30 an innocent or something like that is
0:54:31 acting from individual self-interest or
0:54:33 at least that they care not about the
0:54:36 collective good so much that they would
0:54:37 be willing to do something like that to
0:54:39 what extent is this uh
0:54:41 a reasonable statement to me let's three
0:54:42 minutes and we'll come back here
0:54:46 all right do you want to start us up
0:54:48 i say it's totally opposite i would
0:54:50 argue that they are
0:54:52 um
0:54:54 they work for they always
0:54:56 do or they either work for someone
0:54:58 or they follow someone or they
0:55:00 are brainwashed by someone yeah you
0:55:02 could definitely make the argument that
0:55:03 there's always going to be a hierarchy
0:55:05 there that there's some groups
0:55:06 that are so it's not you don't care
0:55:08 about the law but you care about the
0:55:09 laws of your group what they would think
0:55:11 or do it do it for a collective higher
0:55:15 purpose
0:55:16 yeah but would that be a collective
0:55:18 purpose
0:55:19 higher purpose yes yeah but they
0:55:20 wouldn't do it like normally they
0:55:21 wouldn't do it for for themselves if
0:55:23 they if the islamic
0:55:25 terrorists or the
0:55:27 so-called terrorists
0:55:28 yeah they would like daesh
0:55:30 they would they would say are we doing
0:55:32 for our islamic effort
0:55:34 yeah it could be yeah absolutely but you
0:55:36 do you do find islamic uh terrorists
0:55:38 muslim terrorists whatever they they
0:55:40 don't subscribe to isis per se
0:55:43 they have other groups that they
0:55:44 you know christian
0:55:46 tourists used to like mention there's
0:55:48 christian terrorists as well
0:55:50 yeah
0:55:51 absolutely yeah so
0:55:54 yeah they will also say like oh because
0:55:57 we want to create uh our christian uh
0:55:59 like kkk yeah like always yeah clean
0:56:03 racial you know christian society
0:56:05 absolutely absolutely
0:56:06 any other points
0:56:08 um yeah kind of similar to what we were
0:56:10 saying where um
0:56:11 here the individual uh so the terrorists
0:56:14 they actually think that the collective
0:56:16 would would benefit from from another
0:56:19 ideology for example and so they're
0:56:21 actually doing it for a collective
0:56:22 interest and maybe another evidence for
0:56:25 this is the fact that they're in
0:56:26 instances willing to sacrifice their own
0:56:28 lives so their own individual life their
0:56:30 individual interests for the sake but
0:56:32 then one kind of critique that we
0:56:34 mentioned that um someone could make
0:56:36 against this is the fact that
0:56:38 um
0:56:38 they're actually doing it for kind of a
0:56:41 future interest which is the hereafter
0:56:43 so because they want to you know be in
0:56:46 heaven and you know right so that could
0:56:48 be going back to egoism right in a sense
0:56:50 yeah so in this sense like they are
0:56:52 actually doing it from for an individual
0:56:54 reason that's actually a good point so
0:56:56 it could be psychological egoism they
0:56:57 don't they don't actually care about the
0:56:59 collective interest
0:57:00 maybe they don't care about so it goes
0:57:02 back to their intentions what they're
0:57:03 doing it for you know are they doing it
0:57:04 because they're trying to fulfill some
0:57:05 collective project or are they doing it
0:57:07 genuinely because they think this is
0:57:08 going to be best for me but i think both
0:57:10 arguments are actually fine arguments
0:57:12 and you can make uh both of them
0:57:14 but it would go back to these uh
0:57:15 particulars right let's go to the next
0:57:17 slide any other points
0:57:19 yeah in the argument yeah
0:57:22 why would you kill someone
0:57:24 yeah what would you reply to that
0:57:26 he said what if why would you have to
0:57:28 kill someone if you were a terrorist
0:57:30 in that argument that you made
0:57:31 why would you have to kill someone
0:57:34 um
0:57:35 i mean it just depends on the ideology
0:57:37 right like they might think that them
0:57:38 killing someone is actually
0:57:40 something which is legislated
0:57:42 um you know by i guess their religious
0:57:45 belief uh
0:57:47 so they think that me
0:57:49 you know kind of getting revenge
0:57:52 um or me eliminating a threat
0:57:54 uh is necessary in this instance what do
0:57:57 you want to say
0:57:59 okay good point yeah right so if you say
0:58:01 a threat to him so if he has gone back
0:58:03 to collective physicists right
0:58:08 well like sometimes like i'm not
0:58:10 obviously i'm not but yeah if if
0:58:13 if i was to put myself in the mind of a
0:58:15 someone who's going to do that for a
0:58:16 second
0:58:17 like the objective could simply be like
0:58:20 to to make a statement
0:58:22 well because you believe that person's
0:58:24 life is worth taking or that they should
0:58:25 be out of the world but once again if
0:58:27 you start saying that then you can
0:58:28 easily say well if you want him out the
0:58:30 world then on a basic level like if you
0:58:32 believe that okay me doing this is the
0:58:34 easiest way for me to get to for example
0:58:36 paradise or however many yeah yeah like
0:58:38 enjoyment or whatever afterwards then
0:58:39 yeah yeah if that's the only reason why
0:58:41 you're doing it yeah yeah and for some
0:58:42 people it is like
0:58:44 right maybe we have to go and ask them
0:58:46 we'll see what they're doing
0:58:48 well
0:58:53 but you know you see i think both of
0:58:55 them there's very good points threat to
0:58:56 whom that was a good question a very
0:58:58 good question because the question is it
0:59:00 implies that there's a collective there
0:59:02 that still needs to be kind of looked at
0:59:04 all right
0:59:06 now let's look at dee tocqueville who
0:59:08 wrote a democracy in america he's a very
0:59:10 famous uh liberal
0:59:13 writer
0:59:14 and interestingly despite his background
0:59:17 and obviously one of the main proponents
0:59:18 of democracy
0:59:20 he actually has some some harsh things
0:59:22 to say about individualism
0:59:24 so he says individualism
0:59:26 is a calm
0:59:27 and considered feeling which disposes
0:59:29 each season to isolate himself from the
0:59:32 mass of his fellows
0:59:33 and withdraw into the circle of family
0:59:35 and friends
0:59:37 with this little society formed to his
0:59:38 taste he gladly leaves the greater
0:59:41 society to look after itself
0:59:43 he says egoism is differentiated from
0:59:46 individualism only in the fact that the
0:59:48 latter in this case individualism is
0:59:50 based on misguided judgment i need
0:59:52 adequate understanding rather than like
0:59:55 depravity or something yeah
0:59:57 and so he says
0:59:59 basically that individualism becomes
1:00:01 egoism all the time we talked about
1:00:03 egoism
1:00:04 uh so he
1:00:05 took phil is saying that individualism
1:00:07 just becomes a form of egoism you do
1:00:09 what you want like you know
1:00:10 you're worshiping yourself putting in
1:00:12 islamic
1:00:13 he says
1:00:15 and this is what we're going to kind of
1:00:16 end with today he's got a very long
1:00:17 quote
1:00:18 but i thought it would be worth
1:00:20 reading it out
1:00:22 and discussing it okay
1:00:26 he states the following it says i want
1:00:27 to imagine
1:00:28 under what new features despotism could
1:00:31 present itself to the world
1:00:33 i see an innumerable crowd of similar
1:00:36 and equal men who spin around
1:00:38 restlessly in order to gain a small and
1:00:41 vulgar pleasures
1:00:43 with which they fill their souls
1:00:45 each of them withdrawn apart is like a
1:00:48 stranger to the destiny of all the
1:00:51 others
1:00:52 his children and his particular friends
1:00:55 formed for him the entire human species
1:00:58 as for the remainder of his fellow
1:01:00 citizens he is next to them but he does
1:01:03 not see them kind of reminds me of the
1:01:05 train uh
1:01:06 discussion that we had in the beginning
1:01:08 he touches them without feeling them
1:01:13 he exists only in himself and for
1:01:15 himself alone
1:01:18 and if he has any as a family you can
1:01:20 say that at least he no longer has a
1:01:22 country
1:01:24 part two he says
1:01:26 above
1:01:27 those men
1:01:29 arises in immense
1:01:31 and tutelary tutillary power
1:01:34 like from tutelage you know
1:01:37 tutorial power that alone takes charge
1:01:40 of assuring their enjoyment
1:01:43 and of looking after their fate
1:01:46 it is absolute detailed regular
1:01:50 far-sighted and mild
1:01:53 it would resemble paternal power if like
1:01:56 it had
1:01:58 as a goal to prepare men for manhood
1:02:02 but on the contrary
1:02:04 he states
1:02:05 it seeks only to fix them irrevocably in
1:02:08 childhood
1:02:10 it likes the citizens
1:02:13 to enjoy themselves provided that they
1:02:16 think only about enjoying themselves
1:02:20 egoism right
1:02:21 it works willingly for their happiness
1:02:24 but it wants to be the unique agent for
1:02:26 it
1:02:27 and the soul arbiter
1:02:30 it attends to their security
1:02:32 provides for their needs
1:02:34 facilitates their pleasures
1:02:36 conducts their principal affairs
1:02:39 directs their industry
1:02:41 settles their estates divides their
1:02:44 inheritance
1:02:45 how could it not remove entirely
1:02:48 from them the trouble to think that the
1:02:51 and the difficulty of living
1:02:53 continues
1:02:55 this is how it makes the use of free
1:02:57 will
1:02:58 less useful
1:03:00 and rarer every day
1:03:02 how it encloses how it encloses the
1:03:05 action
1:03:06 of the will within a smaller space
1:03:09 and little by little steals from each
1:03:11 citizen
1:03:13 even the use of himself
1:03:15 equality has prepared men for all these
1:03:18 things he has disposed men to bear them
1:03:21 and often even to regard them as a
1:03:24 benefit
1:03:26 after having thus taken each individual
1:03:28 one by one into its powerful hands
1:03:32 and having molded him
1:03:34 as it pleases the sovereign power
1:03:36 extends its arm over the entire society
1:03:40 it covers the surface of society with it
1:03:43 with a small network of
1:03:45 with a with a with a network of small
1:03:47 complicated my new and uniform rules
1:03:50 which the most original minds and the
1:03:52 most vigorous souls cannot break through
1:03:55 to go beyond the crowd it does not break
1:03:58 wills but it softens them
1:04:01 bends them and directs them it rarely
1:04:03 forces action but it constantly opposes
1:04:06 your acting
1:04:07 it does not destroy it prevents birth it
1:04:10 does not
1:04:11 tyrannize it hinders it represses
1:04:15 it enervates it extinguishes it
1:04:17 stupefies
1:04:19 and finally it reduces each nation
1:04:22 to being nothing more than a flock of
1:04:25 timid
1:04:26 and industrious animals of which
1:04:29 government
1:04:30 is the shepherd now
1:04:32 what tocqueville is saying
1:04:34 is that
1:04:35 when you have individualism
1:04:39 which then turns into kind of like an
1:04:40 egoism or an atomism of some sort
1:04:43 this provides
1:04:45 the most sophisticated type of tyranny
1:04:48 because
1:04:49 it allows each person to
1:04:51 instantiate their very independent will
1:04:54 and it customizes tyranny if you want to
1:04:56 play that way
1:04:59 it's a very sophisticated type of
1:05:00 control you know if you go
1:05:02 to
1:05:04 some of the nations which i'll take
1:05:05 tutorial
1:05:06 and they have a very hard core approach
1:05:08 you talk about the government of the
1:05:09 government you talk about the president
1:05:10 we'll put you in prison
1:05:12 you know
1:05:13 you do this will you it's a very if
1:05:17 then kind of
1:05:18 situation if statements and if you do
1:05:20 this here but here
1:05:23 tocqueville maybe if he was alive he
1:05:24 would say
1:05:26 that the kind of tyranny that is
1:05:28 uh
1:05:29 applicable in the west
1:05:31 or even in parts of the east like in
1:05:32 china or in other places
1:05:35 it's very sophisticated and customized
1:05:37 you get your their details where they're
1:05:39 traveling where they're going so you
1:05:40 know let's just follow them let's see
1:05:42 what they're doing
1:05:43 and let's tyrannize them according to
1:05:45 what they
1:05:47 what their what their what their likes
1:05:48 are what their dislikes are what their
1:05:50 pleasures are we know who they love
1:05:52 the tyranny is customized
1:05:55 you see in guantanamo bay they bring
1:05:56 some you know the voices of your
1:05:58 daughter or something in the
1:06:00 or that you'll see it in
1:06:02 in in in economy they'll tyrannize you
1:06:04 economically by by manipulating what
1:06:07 what you're exposed to you know whatever
1:06:09 it may be that the tyranny is specific
1:06:13 and toefl is saying
1:06:15 that individual
1:06:16 individualism can facilitate for the
1:06:19 most encroaching type of tyranny in fact
1:06:24 now we can discuss this but we will do
1:06:26 so in our own time we've already taken
1:06:28 up a lot of yours
1:06:30 but hopefully this has acted as some
1:06:33 kind of a springboard for some of your
1:06:35 own thoughts on the issue
1:06:37 and hopefully we can see you next time
1:06:47 you