Shubuhat Series #3 - "Hudud" (Penal Code In Islam) | Mohammed Hijab (2022-05-28) #

0:00:08 welcome to another session
0:00:09 whereby we look at some of the
0:00:12 some of the misconceptions
0:00:14 about islam and we respond in kind today
0:00:17 we're going to be looking more generally
0:00:18 about the harod the punitive laws or the
0:00:21 penal code
0:00:22 in islam
0:00:24 and we've already dealt with riddha
0:00:26 which is
0:00:27 uh in the previous episode
0:00:30 and this is going to be something which
0:00:31 is participant-led so people here have
0:00:33 you know prepared something
0:00:35 and we have uh people of knowledge here
0:00:36 as well to correct us if we are wrong
0:00:38 because this is going to be a
0:00:39 intensive
0:00:41 uh class which requires specialism in
0:00:43 that area
0:00:44 meaning in the area of islamic
0:00:46 jurisprudence
0:00:47 so let's start with
0:00:49 uh the first
0:00:50 of
0:00:51 the hodud which we're going to be
0:00:53 dealing with today
0:00:55 let's start with something
0:00:56 maybe low laying in the sense which is
0:00:59 zina now zinna
0:01:02 yes there's there's two kinds of uh had
0:01:05 applied uh here
0:01:07 for two kinds of uh people
0:01:09 tell us what zuna is khan and tell us
0:01:12 what you've prepared what kind of uh
0:01:15 information you have on that
0:01:17 assalamualaikum
0:01:26 so zina is one of the uh
0:01:28 forbidden since one of the major
0:01:30 forbidden scenes uh in islam
0:01:32 after
0:01:33 a
0:01:36 mother
0:01:38 a mother killing someone yeah yeah
0:01:41 all religions agreed azina is
0:01:44 uh
0:01:45 norwegian allows it the pension the
0:01:48 punishment for zina is one of the most
0:01:50 severe punishments because it's violence
0:01:52 the owner of a lineage of
0:01:55 other personal people
0:01:57 and
0:01:59 in arabic and arabic the meaning of
0:02:01 dinner is immorality
0:02:03 and it has
0:02:06 a general meaning and a specific meaning
0:02:10 and
0:02:11 the general meaning includes that which
0:02:13 is punishable and the curse of
0:02:16 punishment and that which
0:02:18 it doesn't carry upon punishment
0:02:20 and
0:02:23 even a bus
0:02:24 uh
0:02:26 may love uh be
0:02:28 placed with him said i have never heard
0:02:30 any better definition of small fault
0:02:33 than which abu herrera
0:02:42 allah has decreed for every son of adam
0:02:44 his share of izina and there is no way
0:02:46 to escape from it the zener of the eyes
0:02:49 is aggressive of the tongue is the
0:02:51 speaking and the gene of the mind is
0:02:53 wishing and hopping
0:02:54 then the private part either acts upon
0:02:57 this or it doesn't
0:03:00 um
0:03:03 so basically xena is not always
0:03:05 associated with uh
0:03:07 private parts itself all right so let's
0:03:09 stop there for a second there's a very
0:03:10 powerful hadith a very important one
0:03:13 um
0:03:14 the hadith of that there's a share of
0:03:15 zina attributed to everyone that's the
0:03:17 son of adam
0:03:18 and that so zilla in the sense that you
0:03:20 know you can look at something and you
0:03:21 cannot lower your gaze
0:03:23 that's a kind of zina but it's that kind
0:03:25 of zina is that punishable like if
0:03:27 someone looks at someone you're gonna
0:03:28 get punished for that
0:03:30 uh you could be punished and yeah after
0:03:34 yeah yeah but is there a punitive love
0:03:35 for no no
0:03:37 so um
0:03:38 this is a good uh hadith because it's
0:03:41 very powerful but the zina that we're
0:03:43 looking for at is what kind of what what
0:03:45 kind what do we mean by zina
0:03:47 um
0:03:49 we mean zina more in in terms of uh
0:03:52 religious understanding yeah so uh the
0:03:54 the what the fukuha understand by the
0:03:56 word zina
0:03:57 or meaning what the jurors understand
0:03:59 what does it entail
0:04:06 they talk more about in the
0:04:08 sexual intercourse yes okay yeah so how
0:04:10 did you define that
0:04:12 so it would be uh
0:04:15 that which includes uh penetration
0:04:18 and how do you define that sorry to be
0:04:19 specific well they have very specific
0:04:22 they have very specific so they yeah so
0:04:23 basically in this representation so
0:04:27 in the sense of like
0:04:29 the power of the penis needs to
0:04:32 just go
0:04:34 in
0:04:34 inside
0:04:36 uh the private parts of the female i
0:04:38 mean yeah
0:04:39 though though
0:04:43 literally what they say is like you know
0:04:46 which is like the tip of the so like the
0:04:49 tip of the penis the head of the penis
0:04:51 it goes into
0:04:53 either
0:04:54 the vagina or the anus
0:04:58 both of those two things any of those
0:05:00 two things are one thing yeah both of
0:05:02 those things will be considered
0:05:04 so there's a hat for that there's a
0:05:06 punitive law that's where the punitive
0:05:08 laws are let me be sorry to be very
0:05:10 annie this might be any sorry to be uh
0:05:13 yani whatever but if somebody
0:05:16 if if somebody put his penis in
0:05:18 someone's mouth
0:05:22 is there a had attached to that
0:05:23 necessarily
0:05:25 okay there might be something else
0:05:27 called tazirat or you know that
0:05:29 but there's no had right there's no
0:05:31 actual and we'll talk about what the
0:05:32 head is there's no actual uh punishment
0:05:35 in a punitive sense
0:05:37 what about and sorry once again for the
0:05:39 explicit nature but we're living in the
0:05:40 lgbtq era
0:05:42 and this needs to be delineated but if a
0:05:45 woman
0:05:47 puts her vagina on another woman's
0:05:48 vagina
0:05:51 there's no heart for that
0:05:52 yeah once again this goes into the realm
0:05:54 of
0:05:55 so something which the the authorities
0:05:57 will have to look at
0:05:59 because
0:05:59 so this is very important as zena is
0:06:02 defined very very strictly actually
0:06:05 what about if a man and a woman
0:06:07 touch each other in anything except for
0:06:10 the penetration like they molest each
0:06:12 other they'll put it that way or
0:06:14 feel
0:06:15 feel each other up or i don't know the
0:06:16 language of the foreplay or yeah the
0:06:20 is enough but it's not it's not
0:06:23 punishable it's not the one that we're
0:06:24 talking about where there's ahead
0:06:27 continue please
0:06:29 um yeah so
0:06:31 we have
0:06:32 a we have i ass in the quran where god
0:06:35 forbids
0:06:37 xena and anything that leads to zina
0:06:39 uh such as afrulkan 25 6870
0:06:43 uh shall every day
0:06:47 and those who invoke not any other god
0:06:49 along with allah nor kill such life as
0:06:52 allah has forbidden except for just
0:06:54 cause nor commit illegal sexual
0:06:56 intercourse and whoever does this shall
0:06:58 receive the punishment
0:07:01 the turn the tournament
0:07:03 will be doubled to him and on the day of
0:07:04 the resurrection and he will abide the
0:07:07 ring
0:07:08 in disgrace except those who repent and
0:07:10 believe and those
0:07:13 those sorry and believe and do righteous
0:07:16 deeds
0:07:16 for those allah will change the sins
0:07:18 into good deeds and allies
0:07:20 of
0:07:21 forgiving and most merciful
0:07:24 we also have a sural israel 1732
0:07:28 and
0:07:29 come not need to unlawful sexual
0:07:31 intercourse but it is a
0:07:33 fajisa fahisha sorry flash faction and
0:07:37 um and
0:07:38 it would weigh
0:07:39 an evil way exactly
0:07:42 so
0:07:45 said the scholars said that the phrase
0:07:48 and come not even close come no need to
0:07:51 enough or sexual intercourse is more
0:07:53 eloquent than merely just saying don't
0:07:55 come
0:07:56 then
0:07:58 because the meaning is
0:07:59 uh do not even come close to you know
0:08:02 basically yeah yeah but now my question
0:08:04 to you is what is the
0:08:06 punishment for zina and what categories
0:08:09 do we have for it so say for let's put
0:08:11 ourselves in a situation classically now
0:08:13 we're not saying this is implementable
0:08:14 just to be very clear in the uk or
0:08:16 europe or something like that we're not
0:08:18 saying that you can do this in your
0:08:20 homes or that's so you know we are
0:08:22 saying classically in an islamic state
0:08:24 what would have been the punishment
0:08:26 for
0:08:27 uh
0:08:28 for something like zana what and what
0:08:30 kind of categories do we have
0:08:33 so
0:08:34 and the degree so the
0:08:36 scene of genome
0:08:37 the degree may
0:08:38 vary basically
0:08:40 and the gravity of defense depends also
0:08:42 on the nature of of the circumstances of
0:08:44 the deed
0:08:45 although all zina is haram
0:08:49 media cena actually major
0:08:52 scene military a medicine
0:08:55 an act of immorality
0:08:57 would be
0:08:58 for instance
0:08:59 having a
0:09:02 sexual intercourse
0:09:04 with someone that is
0:09:06 your
0:09:07 family member such as you know okay
0:09:09 that's that's a good that's a good way
0:09:10 of
0:09:11 it's yeah
0:09:12 that's a that's a good way to start
0:09:13 actually because we forget that
0:09:14 sometimes for example you're saying that
0:09:17 having intercourse with your mom sorry
0:09:20 to say or your sister or something like
0:09:23 that
0:09:23 that the punishment for that some some
0:09:25 jurors have said
0:09:27 is you know is is a higher punishment
0:09:29 even than the punishment that is
0:09:31 prescribed for the rest of yeah yeah and
0:09:37 so obviously
0:09:39 if the person
0:09:41 after we have
0:09:43 if the person is your neighbor or the
0:09:46 person is a
0:09:50 the husband is on uh
0:09:52 on jihad or the husband is away
0:09:55 so
0:09:56 depending on how many
0:09:58 things you affect
0:10:00 the punishment is worse okay well let's
0:10:02 let's start you're right i mean this is
0:10:03 a very good powerful point so
0:10:05 maybe people would have forgotten
0:10:08 what's the punishment for someone who's
0:10:10 never been married before man or woman
0:10:13 committing a sexual act
0:10:16 and that can that has been witnessed by
0:10:17 four male um
0:10:20 just witnesses that have all seen the
0:10:22 pen go into the ink what's the meaning
0:10:24 that the penis going into the vagina
0:10:26 what is the punishment for that so
0:10:30 for those that kumasina before married
0:10:33 meaning they're not married
0:10:34 or none of them so
0:10:37 neither the boy or the girl are made
0:10:40 it's a hundred lashes yes
0:10:42 uh if
0:10:44 obviously they need four weaknesses
0:10:47 uh that can prove and i can testify that
0:10:50 what if there's only three witnesses
0:10:52 by the four male witnesses you know what
0:10:54 if there's three
0:10:55 yeah it's not enough well if there's two
0:10:57 no it's not enough it needs to be four
0:10:59 and this you can't you can't use a
0:11:03 dna
0:11:04 or a video or anything it needs to be
0:11:08 a
0:11:09 a
0:11:10 a person needs to be four persons
0:11:13 to to be able to okay what if the person
0:11:16 confesses
0:11:17 if the person confesses yeah that's
0:11:19 polite okay what if one of them
0:11:21 confesses and the other one denies
0:11:25 that's a good question
0:11:26 okay we'll pause the video in a second
0:11:29 these questions are going to come to
0:11:30 mind
0:11:32 i i i'm going to make sure of it
0:11:34 but the point the point is is that
0:11:38 we need to differentiate between two
0:11:39 things yeah
0:11:40 the one who's been married before and
0:11:42 the one who's not been married before
0:11:43 because the majority of jurors
0:11:45 they define the mohsan as the person
0:11:48 who's been married before so for example
0:11:50 say you've got married
0:11:53 and then you got divorced
0:11:55 yeah
0:11:56 the punishment for you will forever be
0:11:58 different now to the one who's never
0:12:00 been married before
0:12:02 i have a question
0:12:03 no problem but do you get the concept
0:12:05 first so repeat to me what i've just
0:12:07 said so basically if you if you have if
0:12:09 you're never married before
0:12:11 your punishment would be 100 lashes but
0:12:13 if you once you get married even if you
0:12:15 get divorced yes
0:12:17 your punishment is not the same what is
0:12:19 that it's done it's turning to death
0:12:21 yeah so it's a capital punishment yes
0:12:23 that's the classical law yeah
0:12:25 okay and uh is that just is that is only
0:12:27 for men or for women as well
0:12:29 for what so it's not a male disc it's
0:12:30 not a
0:12:31 female discrimination law no so it's for
0:12:34 both males and females it's a success
0:12:37 and what what's the re what's the
0:12:38 evidentiary bar here what needs to be
0:12:40 seen
0:12:42 proof you need to have approved that and
0:12:43 what's the proof for witnesses what
0:12:45 about this three
0:12:47 no this is it's not promising good okay
0:12:49 we're gonna pause the camera now and
0:12:50 we're going to ask some some questions
0:12:52 and we're going to open up for a group
0:12:53 discussion and we're going to come back
0:12:56 and
0:12:57 tell us to tell you the
0:12:59 end user there
0:13:00 what we've what we've said but so far so
0:13:02 good
0:13:05 all right so uh the group had a long
0:13:06 discussion and we covered many topics
0:13:08 and i'll tell you a few of them which i
0:13:09 think are most pertinent to this
0:13:11 particular
0:13:12 recording uh we we discussed um the
0:13:15 different types of things that are
0:13:16 mentioned classically in the books of
0:13:19 and then we had a discussion about the
0:13:21 evidentiary bar and
0:13:23 well clearly in the islamic tradition
0:13:25 the evidentiary bar
0:13:27 for
0:13:28 the legal system and when it comes to
0:13:30 zina is quite high
0:13:31 and some scholars of islam like
0:13:34 others they said that you know in fact
0:13:37 their evidentiary baffled zinna which is
0:13:39 the four witnesses or having to witness
0:13:41 the pen going into the ink the
0:13:43 proverbial pen going into the proverbial
0:13:45 ink
0:13:46 that it was so high that it had never
0:13:48 been implemented
0:13:49 uh
0:13:50 ever at the time of islam in fact
0:13:53 there was a famous incident
0:13:55 with him and there were four witnesses
0:13:58 one of the witnesses
0:14:00 abu bakr
0:14:04 went against what the rest of the
0:14:06 witnesses said
0:14:08 and the other witnesses had seen graphic
0:14:10 details and so on
0:14:11 and yet
0:14:12 despite that being the case
0:14:15 that the punishment was not carried out
0:14:18 and so for this punishment to be carried
0:14:20 out
0:14:21 uh in fact
0:14:22 uh you know
0:14:24 for this punishment to be carried out
0:14:26 for the most cases if any time at all it
0:14:28 would usually be done through confession
0:14:30 interestingly
0:14:31 we also discussed and that
0:14:33 the people had some evidences there
0:14:36 said that it's permissible for someone
0:14:38 who is asked to confess
0:14:40 to
0:14:41 not confess in fact to uh
0:14:44 to say that he didn't do or she didn't
0:14:46 do the thing
0:14:47 in question and that is because the
0:14:49 sharia itself
0:14:50 it pushes people away from
0:14:52 these kinds of punishments and
0:14:54 this brings us to the point that really
0:14:56 these laws are meant first and foremost
0:14:59 as a deterrent
0:15:00 but of course if we're saying that and
0:15:03 when the evidentiary bar is so high
0:15:06 one cannot ask the question
0:15:08 that what about people that do things
0:15:11 which uh you know could be of a sexual
0:15:13 nature could be exploitative
0:15:16 uh
0:15:17 and there could be good evidence
0:15:18 circumstantial evidence for it but which
0:15:21 uh the evidence is not met the four
0:15:22 witnesses are not there and so on
0:15:24 in which case we discussed at
0:15:26 considerable length
0:15:27 the matter of attack in islam
0:15:31 now tazirat are these punishments which
0:15:33 are not clearly spelled out in the quran
0:15:36 in
0:15:37 in in
0:15:38 a format which says that this is how
0:15:39 many lashes or this is what penalty that
0:15:42 person
0:15:43 gets
0:15:44 but in fact
0:15:46 these tassie rocks according to people
0:15:47 like ebentamia
0:15:49 uh can can be up to
0:15:51 death in other words they can incur up
0:15:54 to the death penalty up to the capital
0:15:57 punishment
0:15:58 which indicates uh in and of itself
0:16:01 that um which indicates in and of itself
0:16:05 uh that
0:16:07 there can be there is scope for a muslim
0:16:10 leader seeing certain circumstantial
0:16:12 evidence seeing certain trends and
0:16:15 behaviors of a sexual kind which having
0:16:17 a corrosive effect on the muslim people
0:16:20 to impose laws
0:16:22 potentially depending on what opinion
0:16:24 one follows in islam
0:16:26 uh that puts them in prison or that
0:16:28 imposes certain lashes on them uh up to
0:16:31 death in fact is what the intention
0:16:32 position would be
0:16:34 and so really even this aspect of the
0:16:37 evidentiary bar being too high
0:16:39 uh so that certain crimes and certain
0:16:40 people doing certain crimes can be
0:16:43 kind of soaked under
0:16:44 the radar or under the carpet or go
0:16:46 under the radar
0:16:48 even that has
0:16:50 its
0:16:51 solutions within the islamic paradigm
0:16:54 uh now we're going to move on to the
0:16:56 next thing we've talked about
0:16:58 zina
0:16:59 we've talked about the had therein or
0:17:02 for those who commit zina the next thing
0:17:04 what was the next thing that we had uh
0:17:08 uh planned
0:17:10 will it be theft
0:17:12 yes let's do theft let's do the
0:17:14 uh for the zarek
0:17:17 let's go through that please
0:17:19 yeah um
0:17:20 firstly based on the quran it states in
0:17:24 surah al-maidah
0:17:26 verse 38 it says
0:17:28 as for the thief male or female cut off
0:17:31 the hands of both
0:17:32 this is the recompense for what they
0:17:34 have done
0:17:35 and an exemplary punishment from allah
0:17:37 allah is almighty always yes so that's
0:17:41 from
0:17:42 the quran
0:17:44 in
0:17:45 the hadith we got various examples
0:17:48 of uh of theft
0:17:50 and the punishment for that
0:17:52 and it's
0:17:54 if we go to say bihari volume 8 book 81
0:17:59 number hadis number 780
0:18:02 uh aisha radhialano said uh the prophet
0:18:05 peace be upon him said that the hand
0:18:07 should be cut off for stealing something
0:18:09 that is
0:18:10 worth quarter of a dinar or more
0:18:13 and
0:18:14 we have
0:18:15 that that's narrated various times and
0:18:18 there's also in the same
0:18:20 volume volume 8 book 81 at least number
0:18:23 785
0:18:26 that the hand of the thief uh was not
0:18:29 cut off during the lifetime of the
0:18:30 prophet except for something
0:18:32 the equal to the value of the shield
0:18:36 okay
0:18:37 yeah
0:18:38 and that's good
0:18:40 there's a further reduce it says uh
0:18:42 uh it's uh at least again volume 8 book
0:18:45 81
0:18:47 number 787
0:18:49 and narrated by ibn umar that the
0:18:53 it says allah is a possible cut off the
0:18:55 hand of a thief for stealing a dinar
0:18:57 that was worth three dirhams
0:19:00 so we've got the um
0:19:03 the uh the value of the the thing that
0:19:05 needs to be clarified yeah excellent so
0:19:07 what we're going to do now inshallah
0:19:09 we're going to switch off the camera
0:19:11 and we're going to have a question on
0:19:12 session with the sheikh on this uh
0:19:14 with the meshech on this on this mata
0:19:17 and then we'll come back and likewise
0:19:18 manner and feedback to the people at
0:19:21 home
0:19:23 right so we had a very interesting
0:19:24 conversation about uh sadika or the idea
0:19:27 of
0:19:29 theft and islam what it means
0:19:31 as we know
0:19:33 the there's an a in the quran this is
0:19:34 not just a matter of hadith
0:19:46 the male and female thief
0:19:48 that
0:19:49 that their hand is to be cut off
0:19:51 and that this is a recompense for what
0:19:53 they have
0:19:54 they have earned and that this is a
0:19:57 something which is um
0:19:59 an akal or some kind of exemplary
0:20:02 something which the people may see as a
0:20:04 kind of like
0:20:05 from allah
0:20:07 and we discuss what
0:20:09 exactly the islamic sharia means by
0:20:12 sarika
0:20:13 and what it doesn't mean by sarika and
0:20:16 one of the things that came about is the
0:20:18 need for headers what's referred to as a
0:20:20 headers or the idea of a safe uh or a
0:20:24 location where this thing wherever it is
0:20:26 that is stolen
0:20:27 is has been so in other words it's been
0:20:29 placed in a location
0:20:31 which is meant for safety purposes yani
0:20:34 if for example and this may include but
0:20:36 it's not limited to
0:20:37 if i have some money in the house for
0:20:39 example and it's in a very it's in a box
0:20:41 somewhere it's clear that it's meant to
0:20:44 be
0:20:45 you know stored in a certain location
0:20:47 but it could also mean something like a
0:20:48 car for example that's outside of the
0:20:50 house but culturally that's known that
0:20:52 people don't go into cars that they
0:20:54 don't own so this also uh
0:20:56 it can extend to that
0:20:59 and
0:20:59 there are other things which myani
0:21:02 are
0:21:03 linguistically understood maybe as
0:21:08 theft but are not particularly
0:21:11 seen by the sharia theft for example
0:21:13 if someone has taken an apple from the
0:21:16 supermarket now there's two things here
0:21:19 there is actually an isabe if you like
0:21:21 a threshold that one must
0:21:24 actually
0:21:26 meet in order for that
0:21:27 for it to be referred to as sarika and
0:21:30 that threshold is
0:21:32 which is one quarter of a dinar which is
0:21:34 equivalent to
0:21:36 about four grams of gold which if you
0:21:39 change it into modern day currency is
0:21:41 about 189 290 sterling pounds now that's
0:21:45 quite a significant amount
0:21:47 uh in it's not for example as in
0:21:50 orientalists we were talking about some
0:21:51 of the orientalist depictions
0:21:53 and aladdin and so on where some people
0:21:56 you know the you know the characters
0:21:58 taking an apple from the
0:21:59 and then they get their hands cut off
0:22:01 immediately this wouldn't be actually
0:22:03 what happens and this is clearly
0:22:06 um
0:22:07 you know a distortion and a caricature
0:22:09 of the islamic paradigm likewise if
0:22:12 someone is in the state of uh necessity
0:22:15 for example they have extreme hunger or
0:22:17 that they are majinoon or they are we
0:22:20 even talked about kleptomaniacs people
0:22:22 that do it maybe because they have a
0:22:23 pre-existing health condition now these
0:22:25 individuals would be full intentional
0:22:28 purposes exempt they have an excuse
0:22:30 uh
0:22:31 from this law and so obviously they
0:22:34 would have to be looked at from a
0:22:35 case-by-case basis
0:22:38 but this would be what happens we also
0:22:42 discussed
0:22:43 the famous hadith
0:22:45 of al-marzumiya an individual who
0:22:48 was quite prestigious in her own
0:22:50 community from a tribe mahazumi tribe
0:22:54 and who had
0:22:55 controversially couldn't some fukuha
0:22:58 taken some of the
0:23:01 assets of
0:23:02 goods or products or
0:23:05 things
0:23:06 of some of the people and put stored in
0:23:08 her own homes
0:23:10 and then and denied
0:23:13 denied
0:23:14 um
0:23:15 that she had ever been given it in the
0:23:17 first place
0:23:18 and this was an implausible kind of
0:23:21 deniability which the prophet muhammad
0:23:24 did not accept even though she had
0:23:26 people who were intercessors on her
0:23:28 behalf
0:23:29 doing she found her behalf and in fact
0:23:31 the prophet was angered by the
0:23:32 suggestion
0:23:33 and had said very famously in one of
0:23:36 the most famous hadiths in this regard
0:23:39 that
0:23:41 had even my daughter fatima bintu
0:23:43 muhammad
0:23:45 stolen that i would cut her hand off
0:23:47 as well
0:23:49 and and so here we have uh many
0:23:51 different things that we've spoken about
0:23:52 but the main thing to know is that this
0:23:54 is something
0:23:55 which is clearing the vision of islam
0:23:58 uh something which is unnuanced actually
0:24:01 uh in the discussion
0:24:03 uh this is something which requires two
0:24:04 witnesses like many of the hadood do
0:24:09 obviously it's a lower evidentiary bar
0:24:11 because the punishment is lower than for
0:24:14 example that was
0:24:16 implemented in some cases for example in
0:24:18 zina
0:24:19 however this is something
0:24:21 in the religion of al-islam
0:24:24 and some may argue
0:24:26 that
0:24:27 actually this is a barbaric type of
0:24:29 punishment we talked about
0:24:31 uh the alternatives and in fact
0:24:33 the long time in prison
0:24:35 which uh some people would prefer maybe
0:24:38 as a punishment in the western systems
0:24:41 how much that would cost tax pay i mean
0:24:43 i'm saying this for myself now
0:24:45 i think it's been
0:24:46 kind of estimated that 30 to 40 000
0:24:48 pounds is how much is spent on one
0:24:52 inmate it varies all depending on
0:24:55 what kind of prison it is
0:24:57 you know what you know about this one
0:24:58 right not personally but and yeah so
0:25:02 like higher security presence would cost
0:25:03 more that's something that's
0:25:05 unbelievable so imagine someone spends
0:25:06 five years in prison and let's just say
0:25:08 40 000 pounds so the taxpayer is
0:25:12 40 48 twelve sixteen that's two hundred
0:25:14 thousand pounds that the taxpayer has to
0:25:15 spend for one prayer for one tax uh for
0:25:18 one inmate
0:25:19 for a crime that he committed and it
0:25:22 also begs the question of whether or not
0:25:23 it's even more merciful like for example
0:25:25 if you're gonna
0:25:26 uh like in a particular punishment
0:25:28 within islam if someone is getting the
0:25:30 death penalty
0:25:32 um
0:25:32 is that necessarily more
0:25:35 barbaric than throwing someone into a
0:25:37 small room
0:25:38 for an entire lifetime with
0:25:41 lots of other criminals and we know
0:25:42 about what kind of things happen in
0:25:44 prisons they're not savory places it's
0:25:46 not somewhere people want to spend and
0:25:49 and in fact
0:25:51 you know all the people of knowledge
0:25:52 that we have today here today uh spoke
0:25:54 about the issue of compassion in its
0:25:57 wrongful place
0:25:58 and the very famous verse in the quran
0:26:01 that yeah
0:26:04 you know that do not let
0:26:06 any compassion
0:26:08 um deter you from implementing the
0:26:11 religion of allah it's in sort of not in
0:26:13 fact
0:26:14 uh in the case of zinna but you know
0:26:17 the sheikh mentioned that
0:26:19 if this situation
0:26:21 means that sometimes a compassion or
0:26:24 your natural feelings which you're not
0:26:25 blamed for in the sharia necessarily or
0:26:27 which the sharia does not necessarily
0:26:30 you know reprimand you for or hold you
0:26:32 to account for
0:26:34 but sometimes they can be
0:26:36 an inhibiting factor to the
0:26:38 implementation of justice
0:26:39 and so when people make this uh argument
0:26:42 from compassion which you'll find
0:26:44 similar to the argument of empathy which
0:26:46 we've already discussed i think
0:26:48 that paul bloom has written a book about
0:26:50 called against empathy which in fact he
0:26:53 argues this empathy can be if you're
0:26:55 using it to ascertain morality says that
0:26:57 it's enumerate and discriminatory
0:26:59 and bias but likewise compassion can be
0:27:03 something which
0:27:04 is a feeling that you have but which
0:27:06 deters you from uh justice itself did
0:27:09 you want to say yeah well there's an
0:27:10 argument here as well that you could say
0:27:12 that the death penalty could be an
0:27:14 argument from compassion especially if
0:27:15 you consider for example long-term
0:27:17 prison sentences to be a form of more
0:27:19 mental torture right so if you're going
0:27:21 to be put into like a small room and
0:27:24 you've got to share it with other nasty
0:27:26 characters and you've got to fear for
0:27:27 your life and
0:27:28 people get shanked tonight in prison
0:27:30 like it's not
0:27:31 sexual abuse yeah sexual abuse so
0:27:33 there's you could and and even when you
0:27:36 sort of cross in towards the realm of
0:27:38 animal ethics all of a sudden this
0:27:40 notion of compassion
0:27:42 is completely inverse like if you have
0:27:44 like a dog for example that is guilty of
0:27:46 very good point killing someone what do
0:27:48 they do they don't put it into a small
0:27:49 box
0:27:50 through all of its life until it dies
0:27:52 and i can guarantee you they would
0:27:53 consider that a form of torture
0:27:56 to
0:27:57 the animal but then when it comes to the
0:27:58 human being
0:28:00 all of a sudden
0:28:01 putting them into a small place which is
0:28:03 going to be filled with anxiety i think
0:28:04 that's very very good but i've never
0:28:06 actually thought of it in those terms
0:28:08 but what we're going to be looking at
0:28:09 now is uh
0:28:11 a very famous
0:28:13 kind of
0:28:14 had they feel like that's implemented in
0:28:16 this case and a famous verse that's
0:28:18 mentioned the quran
0:28:20 uh would you like to tell us something
0:28:22 about
0:28:24 is mentioned in surah that was 33 yes
0:28:28 so
0:28:57 and uh
0:28:59 relying upon being up on kuffur
0:29:02 and uh cutting off the road so that's
0:29:04 one of them so it brings a few of them
0:29:06 as part of his definition so the hard
0:29:08 work include cutting off the road
0:29:10 you can include include uh
0:29:13 causing fear upon the way on the path
0:29:16 and can include uh causing corruption on
0:29:18 the on the earth and
0:29:21 uh
0:29:22 so this is his definition and the from
0:29:24 what i found so i was reading
0:29:27 and he said
0:29:28 there's an opinion that it was uh about
0:29:31 that this eye was revealed about the
0:29:33 ahead of the music at time the prophet
0:29:36 and that they broke the ah
0:29:38 so this is one of the reasons of the
0:29:40 silver nazoon for this ayah so that was
0:29:42 one opinion i said
0:29:44 i said that it was revealed because
0:29:48 there were two people that came to
0:29:49 medina
0:29:50 and uh they don't bear with the on them
0:29:54 and then they'll consider us
0:29:56 and then they broke the ah so
0:29:59 they had uh the process on uh they came
0:30:01 to him
0:30:02 and
0:30:03 uh they were afflicted with the disease
0:30:05 or the illness
0:30:06 so the author was something about it and
0:30:07 then he advised them this we're talking
0:30:09 about the urine of the of the camel and
0:30:12 mixing with the milk then that's what's
0:30:14 gonna advise me to do
0:30:16 so
0:30:17 after that event they went to the
0:30:19 shepherd of the camels and then they got
0:30:22 the
0:30:24 shifter that the prosthetic prescribed
0:30:26 for them but then after that
0:30:28 they broke the uh they actually killed
0:30:30 him actually they killed him
0:30:32 and then that was
0:30:33 their form of breaking the bear with the
0:30:35 frozen solomon
0:30:37 so once they done that and the prophet
0:30:39 sallam was informed of this
0:30:41 he was like this is considered as
0:30:44 muharram
0:30:45 so they broke the
0:30:46 with the prophet
0:30:47 with one of the actions and is i imagine
0:30:50 this falls underneath one of those
0:30:51 things that eminem mentioned
0:30:54 and
0:30:55 uh so there was a
0:30:57 heavy punishment for them for this so it
0:30:59 wasn't like a normal punishment
0:31:01 so like uh they were killed but they
0:31:04 also
0:31:05 like somewhere around him their eyes
0:31:07 were like gouged out and they were
0:31:09 thrown in the desert and they were like
0:31:11 laid there
0:31:13 and there's different narrations about
0:31:14 it like some harbor mentioned that they
0:31:16 will ask for water and they're very
0:31:18 thirsty but they will not be given water
0:31:19 though later just to die
0:31:21 and there's other generations that's all
0:31:24 different nations of what exactly
0:31:25 happened to them
0:31:26 but basically that was it's like one of
0:31:28 the most severe punishments for
0:31:31 in islam essentially
0:31:33 like to the point where the eyes are
0:31:34 gathered out right
0:31:36 so yeah
0:31:37 as a specific definition like
0:31:40 there's different things obviously half
0:31:42 of the seven causing fear upon the path
0:31:45 uh i think rape will mention things like
0:31:46 this like in herald generally
0:31:49 uh crimes are full under this
0:31:51 so i don't think there's an exact like
0:31:53 definition of like this is exactly what
0:31:55 it is
0:31:56 because many other generations as well
0:31:58 on how it should be implemented about
0:32:00 two hours it was quite confusing and it
0:32:02 was just yeah finish yesterday yeah yeah
0:32:05 well we're gonna pause it now for a
0:32:07 group discussion
0:32:09 and after we have that discussion we'll
0:32:10 feed back to people at home
0:32:12 thank you for that mandy that was a good
0:32:14 a very good um summary of the
0:32:17 of what it is what maharaba is and what
0:32:19 the main evidence is in islama
0:32:23 so the class had a very interesting
0:32:24 discussion about
0:32:26 and obviously the
0:32:27 main verse in the quran is in chapter 5
0:32:30 verse number 33 is the brother
0:32:39 of
0:32:41 this verse which says that the the
0:32:43 recompense of some of someone or those
0:32:46 who
0:32:47 oppose allah and the messenger is that
0:32:49 they are to be killed or crucified
0:32:52 uh although their hands and their legs
0:32:55 are amputated from both sides or that
0:32:57 they are exiled from the land
0:32:59 and the discussion uh
0:33:00 hinged on the fact that actually what is
0:33:03 it why is this first of all such a very
0:33:04 harsh punishment the reason why is this
0:33:07 is
0:33:07 maharaba comes from the arabic word
0:33:09 literally meaning war so these people
0:33:11 have declared war in the case of the
0:33:13 hadith of the brother mentioned clearly
0:33:15 those individuals actively killed
0:33:17 individuals uh those two bedouins
0:33:20 killed individuals they had stolen
0:33:23 they had stolen camels
0:33:24 and so they had been given the harshest
0:33:26 punishment in islam and the question is
0:33:29 why is there so many options given here
0:33:32 in the area why are there so many
0:33:33 different options given and when are
0:33:35 these options to be applied and the
0:33:37 answer is actually
0:33:39 the majority of scholars say that each
0:33:41 situation has its own
0:33:44 kind of prescription so in other words
0:33:46 for someone steals then the
0:33:48 idea
0:33:50 all their hands are cut off this would
0:33:52 apply and in other cases
0:33:56 would apply or being exiled from the
0:33:57 land would apply so it's um each of
0:34:00 these things
0:34:01 uh could be applied for like for like
0:34:03 cases other scholars say in fact this is
0:34:06 something which the hakim or the ruler
0:34:08 has to his ex his disposal in other
0:34:10 words that if someone uh is warring the
0:34:13 muslims then these are things which uh
0:34:16 which which can be applied now clearly
0:34:18 these are classical laws they don't have
0:34:20 an impact have to once again caveat and
0:34:22 make clear
0:34:23 on our day-to-day living here in the
0:34:25 west
0:34:26 but it's important to understand the
0:34:27 laws and this is talking about war let's
0:34:29 talk about people that have started the
0:34:31 fight
0:34:32 these individuals have uh this is a
0:34:34 response this is a defense because
0:34:36 uh clearly the the ayah is talking about
0:34:38 those who have
0:34:39 themselves declared war on online the
0:34:41 messenger on the muslim people so i
0:34:44 don't think there's much controversy to
0:34:46 be discussed here
0:34:47 everyone is very happy talking about
0:34:50 compassionate themes in times of peace
0:34:52 but when the war happens and it's on
0:34:54 their front door they'll be the first to
0:34:56 cry for the most harsh
0:34:58 implementation of punishment to be
0:35:00 applied on the other side and this is
0:35:03 something we're seeing time and time
0:35:05 again
0:35:05 even and especially in fact in the
0:35:08 western world so we don't really need to
0:35:10 put much forward
0:35:12 an apologetic justification type of
0:35:14 approach this is our religion i mean
0:35:17 we're very proud of him very happy with
0:35:19 it
0:35:20 and with that
0:35:21 i conclude assalamualaikum
0:35:23 warahmatullahi wabarakatuh