Mohammed Hijab vs Jay Smith (2017-06-19)

## Description

This is a long awaited debate between Jay Smith and Mohammed Hijab.

Some of the books of hadith that were written before bukhari include -

1- the saheefah al sadiqa of amr ibn al aas (a sahabi) and it is included as part of musnad ahmed 2- saheefah of ali ibn abi taalib (and this is included within bukhari) 3- saheefah of sa3d ibn 3baadah (which is included in al tirmithi) 4- the book of zakaaah that was written by abu bakr al siddiqq and is mentioned in al bukhari 5 - the letters to the leaders calling them to islam 6 - the treaties that were made with the disbelieving arabs 7 - the sermons of the prophet by abu shaam al yamaani

For the full debate please visit our brothers @ Dawahmedia -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl26C63EkaQ&t=4s

Summary of Mohammed Hijab vs Jay Smith

This summary is AI generated - there may be inaccuracies. *

00:00:00 [00:35:00

"Mohammed Hijab vs Jay Smith" is a debate between two Muslims over the origins of their respective religions. Mohammed Hijab argues that Islam is the historical religion, while Jay Smith argues that Christianity is the only true form of religion. The two debate the age of their respective scriptures, with Hijab claiming the Quran is older than the Bible, and Smith claiming that the Quran is full of variant readings. In the end, Smith concedes that the Quran that Muslims currently use is not finalized, but Hijab is unable to produce a chain of narration back to the Companions of Jesus.

00:00:00 Mohammed argues that Islam emerged from the classical model of religion, which was started by the first human being on earth, Adam. Christianity took a historically-based development, which added the doctrine of Trinity to the monotheism of Islam.

00:05:00 Discusses the differences between Islam with a small eye (submission) and Islam with a big eye (prophet Muhammad). The small eye is based on what Muslims believe happened to Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and other prophets. The historical record shows that Islam with a small eye is not the real Islam, and Muslims need to go back to unpack what they do now know about Islam.
00:10:00 Mohammed Hijab argues that Islam is the real historical Islam, while Jay Smith argues that Christianity is the only true form of religion. Mohammed Hijab points to a hadith in which the Prophet Muhammad says that anyone who lies about him will go to Hell. Smith points to a number of scholarly sources which suggest that the earliest accounts of Jesus's life come from people who were not in scholarly circles.
00:15:00 Mohammed Hijab challenges Jay Smith to produce a chain of narration back to the Companions of Jesus, which Smith is unable to do. Smith then claims that the Quran that Muslims currently use is finalized in 1924, which is 100 years after the Prophet Mohammed's death. Hijab points out that there are manuscripts from the earlier times that Smith is unaware of, and Smith eventually concedes that the Quran that Muslims currently use is not finalized.
00:20:00 "Mohammed Hijab vs Jay Smith" is a debate between two Muslims: Mohamad Hijab and Jay Smith. Mohammed Hijab argues that the Quran is older than the Bible, and that carbon-dating of some early Muslim manuscripts has shown that they were written over a hundred years before Muhammad's birth. Jay Smith responds that the Quran is full of variant readings, and that there is no evidence that it has a chain of provenance going back to Jesus Christ. He also asks why 97% of the Bible is after the ninth century, and asks Muslims to answer his questions. Muslims say that the Quran is the original, and that the Bible was compiled after Muhammad's death.
00:25:00 Jay Smith argues that there are many variants of manuscripts of the Bible, and that this proves that the theology behind them is changing and unreliable. Smith also argues that Muhammad did not develop a true theology of Jesus until after 383, and that this is evidenced by the lack of manuscripts from that time period.
00:30:00 A study of early Christian writings reveals that nearly all of them agree with the Quran's teachings, which predate Islam by 300 years. Bart Ehrman, a professor of New Testament Studies, has claimed that 97% of biblical scholars believe that partner men are not allowed in the Bible, but this is false.
00:35:00 Mohammed Hijab argues that the early church fathers did not agree with the Trinity as we believe it today, and that if Jay Smith cannot provide one early church father who agrees with the Trinity, then Smith has nothing to say. Smith responds by providing five early church fathers who believed in the Trinity.

Full transcript with timestamps: CLICK TO EXPAND

0:00:00 Mohamad for friends are we not we are 0:00:03 definitely not friends I'm your friend 0:00:07 no no no he hates me but I love you in 0:00:09 the in the conventional sense I think 0:00:16 that's the most understatement 0:00:17 well I can't be friends with anyone 0:00:19 who's to go to serve you so outrageous 0:00:21 and they're cooking god bless you for 0:00:25 everything you're saying I know you hate 0:00:26 my lord my god am i Jesus but I love you 0:00:29 now what we're going to do today we're 0:00:31 going to happen to make 5 minutes 5 0:00:33 minutes 5 minutes 5 minutes and I'm 0:00:35 gonna let you make it big in with the 5 0:00:37 minutes in what you might ask Muhammad 0:00:38 to do is to show me and to prove to us 0:00:41 how Islam began from the classical model 0:00:45 and I'm going to say in critique him one 0:00:48 historical what history tells us the 0:00:53 emergence of Islam how Islam began birth 0:00:56 of Christianity from it to the classical 0:00:58 model all right versus the historical 0:01:00 Mar this is going to be interesting 0:01:01 ladies and gentlemen when tell me with 0:01:04 the stock go go 0:01:05 ok let's start let's start right here 0:01:07 and 0:01:08 or what I want to say generally is that 0:01:11 Islam as a basically has two 0:01:15 connotations you can say there's Islam 0:01:17 with a small eye and the smell with 0:01:20 Islam with the big eye Islam of the 0:01:22 small I literally means submission in 0:01:25 Arabic comes from the Arabic word mr.0:01:27 slap we believe that every prophet was a 0:01:30 Muslim in the sense that they was 0:01:32 submissive to their Lord so we believe 0:01:34 that the first human being to be on this 0:01:36 planet Adam was in fact submissive and 0:01:39 was Muslim 0:01:39 so the question is how did this lamp 0:01:41 emerge the answer is simply nice lamp 0:01:44 emerged when the first human being 0:01:46 except for this earth 0:01:49 that's how Islam emerged I feel took in 0:01:52 my slumber the big eye which has a 0:01:54 connotation of you cameras and other 0:01:57 than that 0:01:58 then clearly that happened in the 7th 0:02:00 century with the birth and prophethood 0:02:04 the last tribal messenger we say that 0:02:07 these two prophets all came and all 0:02:10 those who came between them which son 0:02:12 had lycée 124,000 prophets all came with 0:02:16 the same fundamental message to believe 0:02:19 in one God and to worship of one God 0:02:20 this message is not only iterated and 0:02:22 reiterated in the Quranic discourse we 0:02:25 no doubt is iterated and reiterated in 0:02:27 the biblical discourse which is why 0:02:29 you'll find in Deuteronomy chapter five 0:02:31 and six verse number four where it says 0:02:33 Shambo estimating and the right here o 0:02:36 Israel your Lord how long is one God now 0:02:40 here's my question is this has always 0:02:44 been the theological underpinning of all 0:02:46 of the prophetic Saints including Moses 0:02:50 and Abraham in Jesus which is why you'll 0:02:52 find in the Old Testament that there 0:02:54 really is nothing that indicates a 0:02:58 Trinity and I challenge J Smith today to 0:03:02 to the contrary of that I challenge J 0:03:05 Smith today to give me one unequivocal 0:03:08 and I'm big not talking about the 0:03:09 Trinity knows love excuse me 0:03:12 an ambiguous verse in the Old Testament 0:03:14 which refers to the Trinity because what 0:03:16 we're saying is how did both of these 0:03:18 religious stuff 0:03:19 how did Islam start versus how the 0:03:21 Christianity saw the answer insists 0:03:23 Islam has always been there as I just 0:03:25 explained my model however Christianity 0:03:28 undertook a historically historical 0:03:30 development which is what I will prove 0:03:32 today which started with militarism and 0:03:36 continued of the trinitarianism and 0:03:37 Theodosius the second in the a 381 0:03:41 literally forced Christians literally 0:03:44 forced Christians to adopt the triune 0:03:47 position and to completely forget about 0:03:51 all the other models including aerial 0:03:52 ISM and subordination is a so here if 0:03:55 you compare the theological 0:03:57 underpinnings of Islam and how Islam is 0:04:00 consistent with all this properly with 0:04:02 the Christian message and how number one 0:04:04 the Old Testament is not consistent with 0:04:06 a New Testament and number two that it 0:04:09 is clear to any any objective historian 0:04:13 that there was a clear historical 0:04:15 development in Christianity that which 0:04:17 meant for the councils like Council of 0:04:19 Nicaea Constantinople the Kelsey calcium 0:04:23 in put in 325 381 and 451 respectively 0:04:27 to formulate the theological tree of the 0:04:31 Christian my question is why don't you 0:04:34 just go back to what the Old Testament 0:04:35 says why don't you go back to 0:04:37 Deuteronomy chapter number 6 verse 0:04:39 number 4 where it clearly states 0:04:41 Shem is lying at the light no-hitter and 0:04:44 I had hear o Israel your lord our lord 0:04:47 is one God this is the kind of thing 0:04:49 that all of the prophets came with this 0:04:52 is the same message that the 0:04:53 hammer came with another we believe this 0:04:55 is the same message that Jesus came with 0:04:57 I don't go have level one minute that's 0:05:00 brilliant 0:05:00 okay now so the things I've been able to 0:05:03 raise here in this today's discussion 0:05:05 point one that Islam has two different 0:05:09 connotations you have Islam with a small 0:05:11 eye then you have the smell with Islam 0:05:12 with the big eye the slammer the small 0:05:15 eye is submission which all of the 0:05:17 prophets of Islam of the small I'm has 0:05:27 always been in existence in fact exists 0:05:30 for in animal and animal because 0:05:32 anything is submits possible and this is 0:05:34 exactly the same thing as you the 0:05:36 specific set so I have what come to 0:05:38 submitting myself what's the father who 0:05:40 sent me each other in John chapter five 0:05:41 birthday I just say listen let's go back 0:05:44 to Jesus message that's being a true 0:05:45 Christian do you want to be a true 0:05:47 Christian today it's not to follow this 0:05:49 made-up concept by the churches on the 0:05:52 Trinity ladies and gentlemen to be a 0:05:54 true Christian means to go back to what 0:05:56 Moses says to Abraham says on to what 0:05:58 Jesus says Shem is RA as a ride hello 0:06:02 hello Adonai I have had here o Israel 0:06:06 you won't 0:06:07 thanks Bob now have you noticed he used 0:06:11 the Islam with the bigeye and Islam with 0:06:14 a small eye his definition of Islam with 0:06:17 a small eye or all people that want to 0:06:20 believe but the big guy are those that 0:06:22 specifically following the Prophet 0:06:23 Muhammad I'm going to use two different 0:06:25 definitions for small I and big I I 0:06:28 would suggest that the big eye is the 0:06:31 historical Islam the small eye is the 0:06:34 Islam of faith and Islam of faith is 0:06:38 dependent on some fraudulent material 0:06:40 none of me what do you mean by 0:06:42 fraudulent material everything he's 0:06:45 going to tell you about how Islam began 0:06:46 now he says that Abraham was a Muslim 0:06:49 I'm sure he wasn't Moses was a Muslim 0:06:51 I'm sure he wasn't Jesus was a Muslim 0:06:54 none of the prophets were Muslim this 0:06:56 word didn't even exist at the time that 0:06:58 they were living in 1900 BC 1400 BC and 0:07:01 the first century but what we do know is 0:07:03 that even the Prophet Muhammad his 0:07:06 problem Muhammad we have difficulty 0:07:08 knowing who he was because you've all 0:07:11 heard the Prophet Muhammad was born in 0:07:12 570 and died in 632 started receiving 0:07:16 revelations in 610 to 632 for 22 years 0:07:20 but where does that story come from 0:07:22 where does the story of Muhammad come 0:07:25 from does it come from people that knew 0:07:27 him no it doesn't who is the first to 0:07:30 write down there but the story of 0:07:33 Muhammad that we have today where is the 0:07:35 first extant material written by even 0:07:38 his Shawn is his name he died in 833 0:07:40 Muhammad died in 632 two hundred years 0:07:44 before they finally get the story of 0:07:46 Muhammad down now what about the things 0:07:49 he said the honey you have al boo honey 0:07:53 Sahih Muslim even doubt Timothy look at 0:07:55 all these honey these sayings of the 0:07:58 Prophet when did Al Hadid I 870 that's 0:08:02 240 years after Muhammad died so 0:08:05 everything he's going to tell you about 0:08:07 the Muhammad or Islam with the small I 0:08:11 is dependent on source material that 0:08:14 comes from him in his Psalm 833 holwick 0:08:18 88 35 0:08:19 Sahih Muslim 870 everyone that comes 0:08:23 after Salah Pahadi is post 870 the 50th 0:08:28 only get first written down by man name 0:08:30 of albany 923 now can you see the 0:08:33 problem all they know about Islam with a 0:08:36 small eye comes from two to three 0:08:39 hundred years later when you look at 0:08:41 Jesus Christ folks we have material from 0:08:43 the very century and from the very time 0:08:45 period he lived Matthew Mark and Luke 0:08:48 and John we're all living at the time of 0:08:51 Jesus Christ Matthew Mark and Luke we're 0:08:54 writing within 30 to 40 years of 0:08:56 Christ's death did they know Jesus yes 0:08:58 they did 0:08:59 did they see Jesus yes they did did they 0:09:02 hear what he said yes they did 0:09:03 Matthew and John were eyewitnesses to 0:09:06 that which they wrote Mark and Luke got 0:09:08 it from the eyewitnesses show me what I 0:09:11 witness on Mohammed come with any of his 0:09:13 traditions from what he said and what he 0:09:15 did you cannot show me anybody that was 0:09:18 living at that time they lived hundreds 0:09:20 of years later and hundreds of miles 0:09:22 away therefore I would suggest LOM 0:09:26 though I the big lying Islam of history 0:09:28 is not the real Islam and we need to go 0:09:32 back and unpack what we do now know 0:09:34 about Islam where is it that this 0:09:37 religion began I only have a minute to 0:09:39 do that I can't do it in the first 0:09:41 minute but can you see we're going to do 0:09:42 like with light we're going to look at 0:09:44 the historical record for both religions 0:09:47 we're going to show that when you look 0:09:49 at Christianity when you look at the 0:09:51 person of Jesus Christ the fact that he 0:09:53 died on the cross 0:09:54 something that Islam disputes the fact 0:09:56 that he rose again that's what true 0:09:59 Christian believe every Christian wants 0:10:01 to know didn't God in the form of Jesus 0:10:04 Christ did he die and rise again is that 0:10:08 a historical fact can we show that Jesus 0:10:11 did die Muslims can't do that Muslims 0:10:15 can only assume he did not die there's 0:10:17 only one reference in the Quran surah 4 0:10:20 ayah 157 one reference to say he did not 0:10:24 die if he did not die and rise again 0:10:27 I'm doubt and so is everybody here who's 0:10:30 listening to me 0:10:32 Christianity is not just the Trinity 0:10:35 like he would like to say Christianity 0:10:37 is the fact that God came to earth God 0:10:40 died on the cross God rose again for 0:10:43 everyone here and that's a historical 0:10:46 event what Muhammad did what Muhammad 0:10:50 said we're now seeing is not historical 0:10:52 we're gonna unpack that for you and show 0:10:54 you what we mean and we're going to show 0:10:56 you how difficult it is going to be for 0:10:59 Muhammad to show me that Islam the big I 0:11:01 the real historical Islam is the real 0:11:04 Islam we're going to show you the big 0:11:06 seed Christianity there is only one 0:11:09 Christianity and that's the historical 0:11:10 pitch at UGA god bless you over you this 0:11:14 is really going to become very 0:11:15 embarrassing today's no no let them 0:11:19 decide that no no no no no no this is 0:11:22 going to be really really embarrassing 0:11:23 today he says that the first books of 0:11:26 hadith or the first books of less a 0:11:29 compilation of English am his heart 0:11:31 which you cannot pronounce properly now 0:11:33 and I'm sure that he has not been able 0:11:35 to tap those books in the primary source 0:11:38 material because the cabbies aleko like 0:11:47 Arabic so you can't access the book 0:11:48 excuse me calm down 0:11:50 that's for your walk you know to be 0:11:52 plain now right number two here is what 0:11:54 I wanted to make 0:11:55 can you hear me guys yeah is that he is 0:11:58 making the fallacy of believing that 0:12:01 because the compilers compiled the 0:12:04 hadith 200 to 300 years after the 0:12:07 prophets death that the hadith didn't 0:12:10 exist before that 0:12:11 how embarrassing how ridiculous how a 0:12:17 historical do you not know how the 0:12:21 science of Hadees works according to the 0:12:23 Muslims you've been standing here for 0:12:25 years my friend and you haven't bothered 0:12:28 to ask someone like me how science on 0:12:30 how this works let me dedicate you 0:12:32 I know you might help the bus I must 0:12:34 educate you today yes it will happen 0:12:36 you'll be educated J Smith by someone 0:12:39 who is at least a lot of your age at 0:12:41 least actually maybe maybe not that much 0:12:43 okay 0:12:44 how so let me tell you something the way 0:12:47 the chains work we have a change we have 0:12:50 a change for the put on we have many 0:12:52 change for the Koran we have changed for 0:12:54 the hadith all of those chains are for 0:12:57 people that have actually met the 0:12:59 prophets seen the Prophet let me give 0:13:01 you one example one hadith of the 0:13:03 Prophet Muhammad SAW Allah Allah asylum 0:13:05 which says man katha by lamo tell me 0:13:08 then failures have over Mikado woman and 0:13:10 man whoever lies about me intentionally 0:13:12 so they prepared to see you see in 0:13:13 hellfire 0:13:14 this is no rated by at least 42 sahabis 0:13:19 according to the scholars of hadith some 0:13:22 scholars of reading say a hundred and 0:13:23 twenty sahabis meaning companions of the 0:13:26 prophet saw this and narrated it to 0:13:28 other people 0:13:29 he's making his embarrassing himself 0:13:31 additionally by trying to compare the 0:13:34 hadith Sciences which is something he 0:13:36 doesn't have with the biblical narrative 0:13:38 now let's read the book those works but 0:13:40 my army he said that the people that saw 0:13:43 Jesus Christ Matthew Mark Luke and John 0:13:45 saw Jesus Christ not in scholarly 0:13:47 circles you can say that your audience's 0:13:48 to your passive audience are not 0:13:50 educated maybe to the rednecks in the 0:13:53 Bible Belt Region who are racist some of 0:13:55 them and they'll just accept any 0:13:56 preachers words maybe you can make those 0:13:57 statements there 0:13:58 but my friend you can't make those 0:14:00 statements to an education audience you 0:14:02 know very well that the scholarly works 0:14:04 like the works of armed and indicate 0:14:06 very well anyone can I get very clearly 0:14:16 guys but that's something 0:14:19 I am Matthew Mark Luke and John first of 0:14:22 all appendix we don't know who these 0:14:24 guys are the actual earliest sources are 0:14:27 sources like Matthew Mark and Luke John 0:14:31 is the oldest one according to Solomon 0:14:32 and these these sources come as he said 0:14:36 about 100 years after Zhu describing no 0:14:38 one saw Jesus and told us about him from 0:14:41 the people that he's mentioning he is 0:14:43 lying to you as he does usually and he's 0:14:45 been caught on camera talking about 0:14:47 there's no pork being sold in Morrison's 0:14:48 that's a lie and this is a lie and 0:14:50 that's a historical a historical account 0:14:52 so here how can you account for the fact 0:14:54 that you're standing here in front of me 0:14:55 and the people here your Christian 0:14:57 friends and selling us huh you're 0:14:59 telling us all to believe in a Bible 0:15:02 which is not reliably transmitted now I 0:15:04 challenge you I challenge you to give me 0:15:06 one chain of narration which goes back 0:15:08 to the Companions of Jesus if you do the 0:15:10 same to me I will easily do it in fact 0:15:12 let's do it now we have changed the 0:15:14 narration for example I asked him he's 0:15:16 been taught by ever of the rock metal 0:15:17 soul I mean he's been taught by earth 0:15:19 man who's been taught by the Prophet 0:15:20 Muhammad sallallahu wasallam one chain 0:15:22 okay do the same thing now I've shown 0:15:24 you that then this is just one singular 0:15:27 chain but actually you have thousands of 0:15:28 Sahaba of companions the form of 0:15:30 Mohammed Salim meeting him and writing 0:15:32 down as well as verbally transmitting or 0:15:34 instructor how do you account for that 0:15:36 my friend you can't read the primary 0:15:38 source materials I have to be the 0:15:39 translating link that helps you those 0:15:42 time they're in a position of Education 0:15:44 you're they're in a position of learning 0:15:46 now you're they are in a position of 0:15:47 learning now the child is going to teach 0:15:49 the old man no problem the child is 0:15:52 going to teach the old man because you 0:15:53 don't know why no and that's the bottom 0:15:56 line 0:15:56 challenge 1 get me a chain get me a 0:15:59 chain that goes back to Jesus Christ a 0:16:01 chain the provenance that goes back to 0:16:03 Jesus Christ 0:16:04 option 2 after you've given me the chain 0:16:07 if you can't get me the chain ah then 0:16:09 admit that actually the first person to 0:16:11 see G or the first compilation we have -0:16:14 100 years are - thank you very very much 0:16:16 gonna be fun all right let's go and 0:16:19 let's just unpack each one of the major 0:16:21 manuscripts that he doesn't where he's 0:16:23 not aware of the Topkapi manuscript when 0:16:26 was it written see he says it's been 0:16:28 written by booth but let's look and see 0:16:31 what the Muslim scholars are saying 0:16:33 today dr. Todd of the college dr. eggman 0:16:36 Anissa Helou Europe's leading scholars 0:16:38 in Islam they have now looked at the six 0:16:41 major manuscripts from 2002 to 2007 over 0:16:45 five years they are the only ones that 0:16:47 have looked at all of the six major 0:16:49 manuscript they looked at the top copy 0:16:51 what are they now saying this is from 0:16:53 the mid to 8th century that's a hundred 0:16:56 years after both month 0:16:57 it only has 78 to 99% depending on how 0:17:02 much you want to which one you're going 0:17:03 to quote of the Quran that is readable 0:17:05 today but even in the Quran that is 0:17:08 readable today there are two thousand 0:17:10 two hundred and thirty manuscript 0:17:12 berries from the Quran that we use today 0:17:14 the Hutt's Quran 2230 Magnus cabarrus 0:17:18 that words are phrases that are 0:17:21 different in the Quran we use today 2270 0:17:26 thanks for correcting me let's look at 0:17:28 the top top sorry let's look at the 0:17:30 summit cut in Tuscan in Uzbekistan that 0:17:32 only goes up to searle 43 there's a 0:17:35 hundred and fourteen swords in the Quran 0:17:37 much of the Quran is missing what's more 0:17:40 tired of the context doctor title to 0:17:42 Cochin good it says when you look at 0:17:45 this manuscript it is so full of errors 0:17:47 it has so many grammatical mistakes it's 0:17:49 an embarrassment whoever wrote it did 0:17:52 not know very good Arabic don't use it 0:17:54 it is from the early 8th century 60 to 0:17:58 70 years after earth money let's go to 0:18:01 the husseiny manuscript in Cairo that's 0:18:04 from the 9th century that's 200 years 0:18:07 later it has a majesty of variants let's 0:18:10 go to the module manuscript right here 0:18:12 in the British Library not only goes up 0:18:14 to surah 43 but you didn't know that did 0:18:16 you 0:18:17 because Muslims refuse to look at the 0:18:19 newest research keep up with the newest 0:18:22 research by your own scholars Bart 0:18:24 Ehrman has never done any major material 0:18:26 on the core 0:18:27 now let's see what it has let's go to 0:18:29 the Sunna manuscript that you love so 0:18:31 much the sort of manuscript has many 0:18:34 different small pieces the largest piece 0:18:37 of it only is 23% of the Quran and in 0:18:40 that 23% it has 93 manuscript variants 0:18:44 it is dated to 705 but that's only part 0:18:47 of it 0:18:48 much of it also is related at a later 0:18:50 part at a later date the Metropolitan 0:18:53 I'm sorry that's the principle in this 0:18:54 manuscript can you see folks six major 0:18:57 manuscripts they are all from the 8th 0:19:00 century not one of them from the 7th 0:19:02 century now one of them is complete now 0:19:04 one of them agrees with each other and 0:19:06 now one of them agrees completely with 0:19:08 the Quran that we have today so what was 0:19:11 your cron canonized what was the Quran 0:19:15 that we have today finalized in 1924 at 0:19:19 Una's university by a bunch of scholars 0:19:21 93 years ago Prince what's-his-name 0:19:26 Prince Philip is older than your Quran 0:19:28 and that's why you need to look at the 0:19:32 historical evidence 0:19:33 don't come him to me with platitudes but 0:19:35 did you notice he still hasn't come up 0:19:37 with any manuscripts that are existing 0:19:39 today for the hadith prior to 833 he 0:19:44 cannot hire two 833 even the one that 0:19:47 he's going to come up with for Abu honey 0:19:49 is not from 870 it is from the 11th 0:19:53 century the earliest manuscript we have 0:19:55 is from the 11th century we have nothing 0:19:58 even from the time of uncle height so be 0:20:00 careful what he's going to say I'm not 0:20:03 going to send mock him as he talks like 0:20:04 he does with me I'm just gonna ask every 0:20:07 one of you to realize that history is 0:20:10 now catching up with Islam and with the 0:20:12 Quran he said that the son of manuscript 0:20:15 has been carbon-dated 0:20:16 yes it has look at the dates of the 0:20:19 carbon-dating that's coming now out of 0:20:21 Toulouse that's coming out of Lido 0:20:23 that's coming out of Arizona at the 0:20:25 carbon-dating labs the carbon dates for 0:20:28 those manuscripts go back to 443 ad 0:20:32 Muhammad was born in 570 ad 0:20:35 that's over a hundred years before 0:20:37 Muhammad what are you gonna do with that 0:20:39 be careful to claim shumake and if 0:20:43 you're going to use Bart Ehrman for 0:20:45 heaven's sakes that's laughable Bart 0:20:47 Ehrman has been destroyed by almost like 0:20:50 most of the reputable Christian scholars 0:20:53 today he does not know his material he 0:20:56 does not know his crap 0:20:58 I would rather you and go back to the 0:20:59 Muslim scholars go back to Alto dr.0:21:02 alter alter alter Coolidge go to dr. Eck 0:21:05 militant asylum 0:21:06 go back to the men who know their crap 0:21:08 who have seen the material who have 0:21:09 looked at it and who have also come up 0:21:11 with their conclusions thank god we've 0:21:13 done that with our bottle I'll show you 0:21:15 what we have in the next five minutes 0:21:16 concerning what we have for our Bible 0:21:19 verses what you have for your Quran she 0:21:23 listened to me 0:21:25 this is I'm telling you the most 0:21:27 outrageous plate the first thing he said 0:21:30 was that day I don't know the date she 0:21:33 gave if you go to any reputable site 0:21:35 search or any kind of anyone who knows 0:21:38 anything when did when is the Sun our 0:21:43 manuscript confidential 651 which is the 0:21:46 time of our life and how do we know that 0:21:47 because all my life and came around in 0:21:50 that time that's when it was canonized 0:21:52 for the second time there was a first 0:21:54 canonization of time workers to dip when 0:21:56 they doing Sabbath did the first 0:21:57 canonization and then the second one as 0:22:00 for the various times talking about 0:22:02 that's a lie there isn't 2,700 variants 0:22:05 what he's talking about is their touch 0:22:07 with now I'll tell you what we mean just 0:22:10 in a very simple way to say for example 0:22:12 if I say if I say __ up or what and 0:22:16 another word sometimes you have 0:22:18 something called for 400 yeah so I say 0:22:21 I'll make us a metaphor for 400 like 0:22:24 that his variant is basically classic 0:22:28 like that daddy because it is a very 0:22:31 important rule this is not what we're 0:22:32 talking about if you look at the 0:22:34 variants that our 0:22:36 actually changes in meetings there are 0:22:38 few in number and they are justified by 0:22:40 the Palmerston a seller had regulation 0:22:44 of 700 now let me ask you a very simple 0:22:46 question what is this what is the 0:22:48 difference between a half and a canal 0:22:49 since you know now your stuff when 0:22:52 you've been reading your stuff and I'm 0:22:53 sure you do all these things and your 0:22:55 opinion what's the difference between a 0:22:56 half and a Quran but if you don't know 0:22:58 what half is and you want to analyze the 0:23:01 cannot eyes have after of differences 0:23:04 and these differences go back to the 0:23:05 Bahamas are selling with all chains and 0:23:07 all being written down so it's not mm 0:23:10 that's completely a lie and force for 0:23:13 example let me give you the easy example 0:23:14 if you've got Malik and Malik Malik is 0:23:17 repeated in Opera is sell crack six of 0:23:20 those guards have Malik and four of them 0:23:22 have Mele for them have Melling so you 0:23:24 have two differences represented over 10 0:23:26 different cannot these two differences 0:23:28 go back to the from Mohammed Salim 0:23:30 through a chain and through the written 0:23:32 for on that was to facilitate for 0:23:35 different tribes and they do have 0:23:35 different meaning we'd made this very 0:23:37 clear now 0:23:38 mm that's the number which cannot be 0:23:40 justified they will never be able to 0:23:41 prove that point he's saying that I've 0:23:44 not been able to bring any evidences for 0:23:46 the Hadees I say generally that's 0:23:48 completely aligned the thing is it 0:23:50 doesn't have a name like like the Salah 0:23:53 heart will determine logical expression 0:23:54 to use sometimes it's just named after 0:23:56 the Sahabi 0:23:57 if the Mossad Abu Huraira all of these 0:23:59 individuals they wrote the hadith down 0:24:00 so we say that the social photo the 0:24:04 writings of and then we say the name of 0:24:06 the Sahaba 0:24:06 and these things are still available 0:24:08 with us so for you to say it's not been 0:24:10 written is nothing but a lie it's not 0:24:12 true you cannot substantiate that you 0:24:15 have to disprove I've just said you say 0:24:17 no actually I've already on the pantry 0:24:18 level didn't write anything down you 0:24:20 have to say that this habit of writing 0:24:21 that these exist 'is manuscripts I'm 0:24:24 telling you of the hadith don't exist 0:24:25 you have to say that but you'll never be 0:24:27 able to make that claim because that 0:24:29 claim would be nothing but falsity now 0:24:31 having defended Islam let's go back to 0:24:33 Christianity because it seems to me like 0:24:35 you have not answered the question of 0:24:36 where is the provenance a chain of 0:24:38 provenance that goes back to Jesus 0:24:39 Christ where is the person or where the 0:24:42 people that have seen Jesus Christ 0:24:44 is the Bible anyways why is 97% of the 0:24:48 Bible according to baz luhrmann 0:24:49 manuscripts that came after the ninth 0:24:51 century 0:24:52 answer the questions these are questions 0:24:54 I've answered your questions now it's 0:24:57 time for you to answer my questions this 0:24:59 is how people reach true conclusions you 0:25:02 bring your claims I bring my claims you 0:25:05 ask your questions I ask my questions 0:25:08 ion's yours now it's time for you to 0:25:10 answer mine where are the manuscripts 0:25:13 where is the Bible where is the original 0:25:16 Bible who saw Jesus this is my question 0:25:19 give me an answer why are there so many 0:25:21 variants which have theological 0:25:23 implications are different to each other 0:25:26 put your picture to each other I tell 0:25:28 you today to find one variant to find a 0:25:31 stick which goes back to Mohammed which 0:25:33 contradicts each other I can find you a 0:25:35 dozen that has theological implications 0:25:39 in the Bible having you explain the fact 0:25:42 that the church had a creedal 0:25:43 development 325 342 381 451 one of these 0:25:50 times have shown that the grades of the 0:25:52 Christian was nothing but change they've 0:25:54 changed time and time again my question 0:25:57 to Jay Smith is how comes you're 0:25:59 believing a true theology which has been 0:26:01 developed of Jesus 381 will Theodosius 0:26:04 when he forced the people to only accept 0:26:06 the triune understanding of Jesus where 0:26:10 is this in the Bible where is in the Old 0:26:13 Testament that the Holy Spirit is gone 0:26:14 your theology is built on nothing your 0:26:20 theology 0:26:21 have you noticed he still doesn't want 0:26:24 to go back to the manuscript evidence 0:26:27 but unless you have manuscripts you can 0:26:29 make all the claims you want if you 0:26:31 don't have the manuscript evidence if we 0:26:37 don't have the manuscript evidence then 0:26:39 you're going to have a problem that's 0:26:40 why I said Islam with a small eye is 0:26:43 what he's telling you 0:26:45 Islam with the big guys the historical 0:26:47 Islam is proving to be inaccurate he has 0:26:51 not kept up with the latest material 0:26:52 he's not even ready Nick Milligan he's 0:26:55 not been read it's on a loom he's not 0:26:57 gone back to I attack altar call of the 0:26:59 college he when you must go back to your 0:27:01 own Muslim scholars stop keep going to 0:27:04 Bart Ehrman he's done nothing on the 0:27:07 Quranic manuscript he will know 0:27:09 diddly-squat but more than that folks 0:27:11 have you noticed unless you're going to 0:27:14 show historically from the seventh 0:27:16 century that you can even show one Quran 0:27:18 that comes from the time of woman stop 0:27:21 claiming it you can't prove it there's 0:27:24 nothing in existence and the six 0:27:27 earliest manuscripts that you have every 0:27:29 one of them are full of Manas cabarrus 0:27:32 Nell dr. David Brubaker 0:27:34 Andrew Baker and did his doctoral thesis 0:27:36 in 2014 0:27:38 looking at all the six manuscripts he 0:27:41 wanted to find manuscript variance 0:27:43 he wanted to find maybe 15 that's all he 0:27:46 needed he look at he he took pictures of 0:27:49 all the manuscripts guess what he found 0:27:53 he found over 200 insertions in the 0:27:57 manuscripts he found over 500 erasers 0:28:01 where they erased complete words 0:28:03 complete phrases he found puppies that 0:28:06 had copies of copies when they had 0:28:08 tapings where they had coverings where 0:28:11 they had writings over top of the 0:28:12 coverings and over top of the tapings 0:28:16 2200 different changes in these 0:28:19 manuscripts what was most troubling is 0:28:21 that these changes continued up until 0:28:24 the 9th and 10th century for 0:28:26 200 years they were still changing the 0:28:29 Quran they were still changing these six 0:28:32 manuscripts none of them are from the 0:28:34 seventh century they only begin to 0:28:36 appear in 705 and they continue to be 0:28:39 changed up until the 10th century 200 to 0:28:41 300 years later now deal with that 0:28:44 Muhammad I know this is not over you 0:28:46 this cannot be over your head because 0:28:48 they can all understand it now let's go 0:28:50 back to the biblical manuscript he said 0:28:52 that none of the biblical manuscripts or 0:28:54 none of the writers knew Jesus I've 0:28:57 already said Matthew and John were with 0:28:59 Jesus for the last three years of his 0:29:01 ministry 0:29:02 they were eyewitnesses to what they 0:29:04 wrote did they rehab the manuscripts 0:29:06 they're original no because they were 0:29:08 written on papyrus which disintegrates 0:29:10 that's why copies Lida made immediately 0:29:12 but that's why we do have four pi right 0:29:15 you can see it even the British Library 0:29:17 and by the sixth century we have two 0:29:19 hundred and thirty five of these coffees 0:29:22 so three hundred and sixty five of these 0:29:24 coffees that's a hundred years before 0:29:26 the first Islamic manuscript I'm sorry a 0:29:30 hundred and fifty years before the first 0:29:32 Islamic manuscript becomes to existing 0:29:34 what is interesting go and look at the 0:29:36 city Atticus here in the British Library 0:29:38 it's there you can go look at it all 27 0:29:41 books written in the fourth century 300 0:29:45 years before Islam and yet it dentists 0:29:48 eyes with the court the Bible that we 0:29:49 have today more than that we have 19,800 0:29:53 translation in 11 different languages 0:29:56 these all are the same 0:29:59 what's more than that we have 2135 0:30:02 lectionaries from the sixth century a 0:30:04 hundred years before his love which 0:30:05 agree with the manuscript evidence we 0:30:08 have five thousand three hundred Greek 0:30:10 manuscripts ten thousand Latin Vulgate 0:30:12 nine thousand another language take a 0:30:15 look and see if they all agree so where 0:30:17 is he getting up going for Thurmond 0:30:19 we're having a debate sir where does he 0:30:21 get off talking about Thurmond tie say 0:30:23 97% of the grunt on the Bible disagree 0:30:26 room it to me 0:30:27 and I'd love to say where Bart Ehrman 0:30:29 ever said that 0:30:31 you're lying when you say 97% he never 0:30:33 said that he wouldn't be so stupid to 0:30:35 say that but folks we have something 0:30:37 even better the early church fathers 0:30:40 quotations the early church fathers 0:30:42 wrote letter after letter and they would 0:30:44 write down scripture verse after 0:30:46 scripture verse in these letters dr.0:30:49 David Goodell ripple and dr. gene Bergen 0:30:51 spent their whole lives collecting these 0:30:54 quotations and they came up with 86,000 0:30:57 of these quotations 36,000 of them that 0:31:00 predated the 4th century that's 300 0:31:02 years before Islam they look at those 0:31:04 quotations and look and see if they 0:31:06 don't agree with the manuscript evidence 0:31:08 and they don't agree with the 0:31:09 translations and they all agree also 0:31:12 with the heritage they have the 0:31:14 lectionary every one of them agrees so 0:31:17 where is Bart Ehrman coming off that's 0:31:20 why we don't accept partner men and 0:31:21 that's why I love my Bible 0:31:23 ok now these are your summation double 0:31:26 summation by ministration you've got the 0:31:28 work you start before me okay so you do 0:31:32 the personal ok some of what he said is 0:31:37 falsehood which was truth another part 0:31:40 of what he said is pure falsehood so let 0:31:42 me go with the first one which with 0:31:43 truth but he said that there are some 0:31:46 copies of the Quran which have passed 0:31:48 taken in apart second out and things 0:31:50 right on the side that's true there are 0:31:52 some parts of the Quran written by some 0:31:54 of the Sahaba themselves which have this 0:31:56 which happens all things written on the 0:31:58 side why is that that is their Topsy 0:32:00 book basically the Sahaba in order to do 0:32:03 tafseer or exegesis of the Quran they 0:32:06 would have their own copy of the Quran 0:32:07 and they would write the top on the top 0:32:09 of that Quran certain things which are 0:32:11 additional to it which are not part of 0:32:13 it now these books are known by the 0:32:16 scholars of Islam to be books which are 0:32:18 not the Quran why because as I've 0:32:20 mentioned she performs in the book I 0:32:22 able to spy even kinesha by Jasleen he 0:32:25 mentions three conditions for something 0:32:27 to be cool 0:32:28 the Quran I told one of them is that has 0:32:30 to be concurrent with that way poor last 0:32:32 not as many which is the script amount 0:32:34 man number two is an acute concurrence 0:32:36 with our language the time of the 0:32:38 Prophet Allah you have a chain of 0:32:40 promenade 0:32:41 now that's easily dismissed is full of 0:32:43 these various times talking about which 0:32:45 are not necessarily paying into that 0:32:48 category you should be applying bronze 0:32:49 there's some plan that having them take 0:32:53 it out but they are not so for us by us 0:32:55 basically in a nutshell we only do 0:32:58 pirata we only do Salah in the fall and 0:33:00 we reach out from the Quran that which 0:33:03 has fulfilled those three criteria which 0:33:05 can be summarized in the killer on 0:33:07 Russia between the tender ages of the 0:33:09 Quran and this has brought a change even 0:33:12 for commercial artists and people as for 0:33:14 the hadith thing I did mention when I 0:33:17 mentioned once twice and thrice that's 0:33:19 different companions many of them wrote 0:33:21 it down and the names of the manuscripts 0:33:24 are the names of the Companions they are 0:33:25 merely called the competitor in the 0:33:27 scriptures according to for example 0:33:30 these things are written down before the 0:33:34 party before I'm not happy you have no 0:33:36 answer destiny how could you access it 0:33:38 anyways this is Arabic resources I've 0:33:40 proven to that you don't know how to 0:33:41 speak Arabic so how can you access 0:33:43 materials you can understand it's 0:33:45 finally going to a Chinese library and 0:33:46 trying to understand what's going on so 0:33:48 you have no right to tell me what dozen 0:33:50 doesn't exist from an Arabic primary 0:33:52 source material perspective you have to 0:33:54 learn from you not tell me that's point 0:33:56 number one 0:33:56 what number two as it relates to the 0:33:58 Bible I'm happy that he admitted that 0:34:00 generally there is nothing at the time 0:34:02 of Jesus why are you making an argument 0:34:04 against me then you're throwing a stone 0:34:06 and you live in a glass house you're 0:34:08 telling me that you don't have anything 0:34:09 when you've just admitted you have 0:34:11 nothing yourself what are you talking 0:34:12 about you asked me to prove it I'm done 0:34:15 so using three methods and you have 0:34:17 failed to do so 0:34:18 using even widely so here the question 0:34:20 will remain for you in the summation 0:34:22 give me one chain of provenance that 0:34:24 goes back to the Jesus himself where the 0:34:27 Companions of Jesus they saw Jesus they 0:34:30 wrote about Jesus he said 0:34:32 they are pen names they are pen names 0:34:34 who was Matthew what was the second name 0:34:36 give me some information information 0:34:38 about him we have some wrinkles Alma 0:34:40 fragile animals agile is the 0:34:41 biographical information of all of the 0:34:44 people that are in the change of 0:34:46 narration for the Muslims we know we 0:34:48 have an mi5 record attempt we have our 0:34:50 CID record we have an FBI record oh 0:34:53 another idea is something like consider 0:34:57 me as needing to be contact with our 0:34:59 terrorism of these things but generally 0:35:01 speaking we have an mi5 record of all of 0:35:04 the people Bible and the biographies of 0:35:05 these people in the chains 0:35:07 where are your biographer biographical 0:35:10 information who was Matthew gave me some 0:35:12 information about him according to the 0:35:14 scholarly works no don't tell me he was 0:35:16 someone who just saw Jesus gave me 0:35:18 historical independent information from 0:35:21 the biblical discourse don't come to 0:35:23 come to that with this such a weak 0:35:24 argument 0:35:25 point number two he said that the early 0:35:28 church fathers he talked about the early 0:35:30 church fathers and these things they 0:35:32 agreed in the same things no they didn't 0:35:34 give me one early church father that 0:35:36 talked about the Trinity as you believe 0:35:38 it today that's my challenge before you 0:35:40 leave if you don't do it 0:35:42 give me one and their quote that they 0:35:44 believe Father Son Holy Spirit all of 0:35:47 them are one one early church father 0:35:49 before 381 yes one early church father 0:35:52 yes you say that he doesn't exist such a 0:35:55 church mother doesn't exist that would 0:35:57 be to say that double to the 0:35:58 predecessors knew more than their 0:36:00 successors removed in the predecessors 0:36:01 you're saying that the older people then 0:36:03 you have people mules in the younger 0:36:05 people as far as long as you quoted they 0:36:07 are not scholars that we are relying 0:36:08 upon we told you we have information 0:36:11 based on the Arabic record you don't 0:36:13 have that so how could you tell me about 0:36:15 the Arabic scholarship so here right 0:36:18 number one and a change of provenance 0:36:20 that goes back to Jesus right number two 0:36:22 one early church father who said that he 0:36:25 believes Father Son Holy Spirit and one 0:36:26 all in one and number three if you can't 0:36:29 do that will you admit state 0:36:30 have nothing to say anymore let's start 0:36:34 with that he's had his summation let me 0:36:36 give you some names Ignatius he was 0:36:39 writing in the late second century 0:36:41 he knew the Father Son and Holy Spirit 0:36:43 Tertullian he was on the cording to name 0:36:45 he was when the coined the name of 0:36:47 Victor Trinity he was one that actually 0:36:49 gave us the word it's nothing more than 0:36:50 a doctrinal representation of what we 0:36:53 see in the Bible but what about Clement 0:36:55 what about Polycarp what about the 0:36:58 nation these were all early church 0:37:00 fathers every one of them believed in 0:37:02 the Trinity one I've already given you 0:37:04 five I give it you five now that's 0:37:07 interesting if he's not yet told you of 0:37:09 any manuscript that's from the seventh 0:37:12 century he get on me any manuscript from 0:37:15 the seventh century have you noticed 0:37:16 secondly he has not given you any 0:37:19 manuscripts of the hadith that is 0:37:21 earlier than the ninth century he still 0:37:25 cannot do it he says we trust in old 0:37:27 tradition we trust in the chain of 0:37:30 atheist nod folks why did they not write 0:37:33 down what they were quoting why could 0:37:36 they not write it down where they is 0:37:40 incapable of doing it where they thought 0:37:42 were poorly educated please don't say 0:37:45 that the fact is they didn't write it 0:37:48 down because there was nothing to write 0:37:49 down we haven't even got what we now 0:37:52 know about Muhammad historically that 0:37:54 will have to be for another debate we 0:37:56 haven't even told you what we now know 0:37:57 about your early ma earliest Faust we 0:38:00 can't find one most that is finishing 0:38:03 Mecca until 731 ad Muhammad died in 632 0:38:07 we're going to get into that in another 0:38:10 debate but votes let's just look and see 0:38:12 what I was talking about take a look at 0:38:15 these insertions these are just a few of 0:38:17 the over 200 insertions we have been 0:38:20 able to find from the earliest 0:38:21 manuscripts take a look at the research 0:38:24 these are 500 you all have being less 0:38:27 than I'm big 0:38:31 okay what good time okay go get it all 0:38:38 straight

Mohammed Hijab vs Jay Smith (2017-06-19) ​

Summary of Mohammed Hijab vs Jay Smith ​

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Mohammed Hijab vs Jay Smith (2017-06-19)

Summary of Mohammed Hijab vs Jay Smith

00:00:00 [00:35:00