Londoniyyah - Part 33 - Shiaism | Mohammed Hijab (2022-04-28) ​

0:00:12 which of course is one of the major
0:00:14 breakaway sects of
0:00:16 islam and in fact that's what the word
0:00:19 means
0:00:22 means sex today we're going to be
0:00:23 talking about this and we have some very
0:00:26 interesting and important guests coming
0:00:28 from different parts of the uk who have
0:00:31 got some
0:00:32 important research for us that we're
0:00:33 going to be sharing of course in the
0:00:35 past we have done lots of things with
0:00:37 shiites three formal debates i think
0:00:41 is something you can access for myself
0:00:43 i've done three form of the base with ci
0:00:45 people so if of course you want to see
0:00:48 the shiite perspective and you want to
0:00:50 hear from a shiite person making the
0:00:52 claim
0:00:53 or the case then that is a a reference
0:00:56 point for everyone as well
0:00:59 so what we're going to be doing is we're
0:01:00 going to this is going to be
0:01:01 participant-led so
0:01:04 i'm going to be answering some questions
0:01:05 and then
0:01:07 adding my two cents as well
0:01:09 we're going to start with some of the
0:01:10 main themes in shiaism uh what we're
0:01:13 going to be doing is looking at three
0:01:15 major themes and then
0:01:17 a host of other things as well in terms
0:01:19 of
0:01:20 misconceptions that maybe people may
0:01:22 have the three major themes will be
0:01:24 number one imam the concept of imam
0:01:27 number two is going to be
0:01:31 or the idea of the companions and how
0:01:33 uh if or not they are trustworthy and if
0:01:35 they are just and this concept of
0:01:38 sahaba then thirdly we're going to be
0:01:39 talking talking about
0:01:41 conceptions of the quran and
0:01:43 indeed there is a difference of opinion
0:01:45 amongst sunni
0:01:46 and shia people on the quran
0:01:49 itself so let's start with the most
0:01:51 important thing
0:01:53 probably in terms of the differences
0:01:55 between sunnis and shiites which is imam
0:01:59 who wants to get us started with uh that
0:02:05 yep okay
0:02:17 which is the infallibility of 12
0:02:20 descendants of the prophet muhammad
0:02:22 sallallahu alaihi wasallam starting from
0:02:24 ali
0:02:26 to uh muhammad bin hasan and askari who
0:02:28 didn't exist but would leave that to one
0:02:30 side
0:02:32 yeah fictitious who
0:02:34 was born from a roman princess well at
0:02:36 times a nubian slave so that's a
0:02:37 different topic and in essence to the
0:02:40 shia it is
0:02:42 we have to bear that which is mine is
0:02:44 the fundamentals of religion and one
0:02:46 that does not believe in
0:02:48 imam of twelve infallible beings from
0:02:51 the lineage of the prophet muhammad
0:02:52 islam renders one a disbeliever and
0:02:56 there's enough proof for that in a sort
0:02:57 of cafe
0:02:59 yes
0:03:02 so that's just the so these are just for
0:03:04 those these are classical shia sources
0:03:06 from the third fourth and fifth century
0:03:08 okay
0:03:10 and the rest so that's sort of it in a
0:03:12 nutshell some claim that is
0:03:14 madhhab
0:03:15 from the shia perspective which is from
0:03:17 like jurisprudence from the sort of
0:03:20 schools of thought rather than
0:03:21 fundamentals uh credo or theology what's
0:03:24 the consequence of that consequence is
0:03:26 uh hellfire forever and we've got enough
0:03:27 evidence to prove that but meaning that
0:03:29 if um if you take the view yeah and
0:03:32 you're saying that there are two views
0:03:33 or at least two representatives one of
0:03:36 them is that some consider it is part
0:03:38 and parcel of the religion itself such
0:03:40 that if you don't believe in this
0:03:40 concept of imam then you're not even a
0:03:43 muslim you're not very muslim and others
0:03:45 say no actually this is just something
0:03:46 which differentiates shia people from
0:03:48 some people so it it makes you a shia
0:03:50 only yeah uh but it doesn't uh render
0:03:53 you in a past day or a non-muslim all
0:03:55 right so this this is why this is such
0:03:56 an important concept
0:03:58 and it differentiates differentiator in
0:04:00 terms of sunnis and shiites that's right
0:04:02 um
0:04:03 anything else on imam before we continue
0:04:05 from anyone else
0:04:08 i think it's very important to note this
0:04:10 yeah go ahead
0:04:16 if we just make a distinction from the
0:04:18 onset yes that the concept of imam to
0:04:20 the shia
0:04:22 all of them generally believe in this
0:04:23 doctrine or is it just
0:04:26 because we're using the word shia and
0:04:27 then we're saying they believe in the
0:04:29 concept of imam so if you maybe clarify
0:04:31 this right so the reason the thing with
0:04:33 the word raphaeli
0:04:34 which is i mean
0:04:36 it's usually seen as a pejorative term
0:04:39 okay now there are some of the shiite
0:04:42 people who actually accept that term for
0:04:44 themselves
0:04:45 uh you know the shirazis and others they
0:04:47 call themselves
0:04:51 yeah right right right however just for
0:04:53 the for the sake of academic clarity
0:04:56 not because
0:04:58 whatever other reason but
0:04:59 i think it's best to avoid pejorative
0:05:01 terms
0:05:03 it's naturally it's clear it's not yeah
0:05:05 it's better
0:05:06 yeah
0:05:07 that's fine because they would accept
0:05:08 that the point i want to postulate is
0:05:09 that we don't give an impression that
0:05:11 all of the shia i believe in this
0:05:12 doctrine i know majority may be that
0:05:14 it's not actually we have today but they
0:05:16 are a good point but there are certain
0:05:18 in german for example his idea right
0:05:20 right right who don't believe in the
0:05:21 concept of imam i think this is a very
0:05:22 good point the point here he's making is
0:05:25 that you've got to look at shias and not
0:05:26 as a monolith
0:05:28 but is that you know the major sect of
0:05:30 shiism itself is the twelver sect and
0:05:33 this is where you'll find in in iran in
0:05:35 iraq
0:05:45 you know
0:05:47 all subscribe to this particular doctor
0:05:48 but in yemen
0:05:50 they are more zadie inclined which is
0:05:52 they don't believe in this kind of type
0:05:54 of imam at all what we're describing and
0:05:56 in fact they've been the zadies in yemen
0:05:58 who are who also refer to
0:06:00 they have been accused by the shia as
0:06:02 being sunni so they're kind of in the
0:06:04 middle somewhere okay so it's not it's
0:06:06 not a uh
0:06:07 one-size-fits-all application number
0:06:09 number two is as you mentioned also
0:06:11 ismailis but they do believe in anima
0:06:13 but it's not the same twelve imams
0:06:16 that the twelvers believe and the reason
0:06:18 why twelvers are distinguished with that
0:06:19 title is because they say
0:06:21 there are twelve men
0:06:24 but there is no consensus among shiites
0:06:27 if we look at shiism as a whole you know
0:06:30 sect that there's only there's twelve
0:06:31 imams
0:06:32 that's a consensus only among the
0:06:33 twelvers and that's a good it's a good
0:06:35 distinction to make from the outset
0:06:37 i think um also it's important to
0:06:38 realize
0:06:40 that
0:06:41 there will be differences in how
0:06:44 shiites conceptualize the imams
0:06:47 how it's written in the books of shiites
0:06:49 it's pretty
0:06:51 um
0:06:52 it's pretty supernatural
0:06:54 to use this term so one thing which is
0:06:56 agreed upon is that these 12 imams
0:06:59 who are ali abner
0:07:05 that they are infallible which means
0:07:06 that they cannot commit mistakes okay
0:07:08 that's something we believe of the
0:07:10 prophets it's not something which is so
0:07:12 problematic from that perspective
0:07:15 but then
0:07:16 i mean for us it's problematic from a
0:07:18 perspective but it's not logically
0:07:20 problematic
0:07:21 when you go into the books like a cafe
0:07:23 and others which are you've got some of
0:07:25 those books here
0:07:27 which
0:07:28 for those who don't okay kaffi is the
0:07:29 kind of shiite equivalent of al-bukhari
0:07:31 although they would say that there's
0:07:33 lots of weak hadith and so on but it's
0:07:35 their strongest book of hadith
0:07:37 and you'll find chapter headings saying
0:07:39 things like you know the imam knows that
0:07:41 the every leaf that comes from the tree
0:07:44 the imam knows it
0:07:46 what what can what will be and what is
0:07:48 and so on so these kinds of notions
0:07:50 which is not dissimilar from a catholic
0:07:52 understanding of jesus christ
0:07:55 just i mean let's just be
0:07:56 straightforward about it it's not
0:07:57 dissimilar from a catholic understanding
0:08:00 of jesus christ the only major
0:08:02 difference would be is that they don't
0:08:03 call ali or any of the twelve imams god
0:08:07 and the secondary major difference is
0:08:09 that they'll say that all the powers
0:08:10 that these imams have
0:08:12 are given to
0:08:14 those imams
0:08:16 or with the permission of god
0:08:18 but then
0:08:19 the problem is still there you know can
0:08:22 god and this goes to this kind of
0:08:23 logical conundrums can god create
0:08:25 another god with his own will or can god
0:08:28 create a creature
0:08:30 which has one of his attributes at the
0:08:32 same level
0:08:33 and we would say this is actually
0:08:35 what the sunni position is this is a
0:08:37 form of shirk a form of apologism
0:08:39 because
0:08:40 we believe that all of the attributes of
0:08:42 god
0:08:44 are unlimited
0:08:46 they are they're the highest they can be
0:08:47 so if you say that well god knows
0:08:49 everything and now the imam knows
0:08:50 everything as well
0:08:52 so god and the imam know the same thing
0:08:55 the the level of knowledge that god has
0:08:58 and the level of god and knowledge that
0:08:59 the imam has is exactly the same
0:09:01 and then you have a range of verses of
0:09:03 the quran
0:09:04 which challenged the notion of
0:09:17 in chapter 46 i wasn't
0:09:19 an innovation from the prophets and i
0:09:21 don't know what's going to happen to me
0:09:22 or you this is a very clear verse
0:09:24 i don't know what's going to happen to
0:09:26 me or you
0:09:28 yeah yes also
0:09:30 just on this i'm going to say that
0:09:32 you're
0:09:33 in in saying that the imam has the same
0:09:35 knowledge as allah you've also refused
0:09:38 like denied the uniqueness of allah yeah
0:09:40 and when you look at obviously you know
0:09:42 when we talk about the imams i mean a
0:09:43 lot of them are
0:09:44 and you know this is figures that we
0:09:46 respect you know but uh you know in the
0:09:48 quran
0:09:53 that you know i would have basically had
0:09:54 a lot of good things happening to me and
0:09:55 no evil would have touched me because
0:09:57 obviously if you know everything
0:09:59 then you know then bad things you know
0:10:01 you're gonna know okay if i go here this
0:10:02 bad thing could happen if i make this
0:10:03 move then this could happen this could
0:10:04 happen
0:10:05 but obviously we're talking about human
0:10:07 beings and so therefore if you look at
0:10:08 their lives it's very clear to see that
0:10:11 they were in scenarios where they didn't
0:10:12 have a full appreciation of all of the
0:10:14 other the possibilities or what could
0:10:16 have happened great and what was the
0:10:18 best example of that
0:10:20 that they said not celebrate they mourn
0:10:22 the death of this person
0:10:25 so if he knew everything he knew that he
0:10:26 was walking straight into his death so
0:10:28 it's committing suicide
0:10:30 i mean the ideas you know we know from
0:10:32 the the practices of shiite there's lots
0:10:34 of things we disagree with
0:10:35 but i wouldn't say that they're
0:10:36 foundational like i think it's very
0:10:38 important also like a lot of people on
0:10:40 the on the lower levels when they attack
0:10:42 shiites they'll attack them on muta
0:10:44 temporary marriage
0:10:46 this is something which you don't need
0:10:47 to attack the world some will go further
0:10:49 than that and they'll say that this is
0:10:51 like prostitution
0:10:52 but in our religion this was at least
0:10:55 allowed in one point of time so what
0:10:57 you're calling a ruling that was allowed
0:10:59 at one point in time prostitution
0:11:01 is
0:11:03 you know yeah
0:11:04 exactly and so this is a very very
0:11:05 careful recognition careful it is a weak
0:11:08 argument uh it's just you know this is
0:11:10 for us as a farah yet
0:11:12 the issues of the branch matters
0:11:15 relating to these things
0:11:18 so
0:11:18 uh this is not these are not the
0:11:20 arguments we should present when we're
0:11:21 talking to shiites we should always talk
0:11:23 i think everyone will agree you know
0:11:25 about these things like imam or
0:11:29 adelaide sahabah et cetera
0:11:31 yeah please just to show you well it's
0:11:33 basically the hadith that carefully
0:11:34 dimensions about those who deny their
0:11:36 imams yes uh die is the death of
0:11:38 jahiliyyah so the imam was asked
0:11:55 is one of the classical scholars and
0:11:57 when he mentions the akhbar he says
0:12:02 these narrations about not knowing your
0:12:04 imam what did he say and this is
0:12:27 also says that you leave islam if you if
0:12:30 you don't believe that you know
0:12:31 12th supernatural supernatural human
0:12:33 being even if you deny one there's a
0:12:34 hadith in uh kamaladeen with him he says
0:12:38 the one that denies the first of us also
0:12:40 denies the last of us
0:12:42 so if you deny if you accept all the
0:12:44 iman's but deny like we don't accept
0:12:46 muhammad bin hassan the hidden imam
0:12:49 we've rejected well that would
0:12:50 disqualify the ismailis as well right
0:12:52 all of them that's why they are very
0:12:54 amongst themselves this idea we've got
0:12:56 narrations of wassail to share behold
0:12:58 were they expiring them as well
0:13:00 interesting what do you think now we've
0:13:02 put the case forward what do you think
0:13:04 the evidences that they will use for
0:13:06 imam ah
0:13:08 like if you're speaking to a shia what
0:13:10 would if what would they say
0:13:12 we'll say look this is our evidence for
0:13:13 imam
0:13:14 first of all sorry
0:13:16 could they say could they bring anything
0:13:18 from the quran which is explicit not
0:13:21 explicitly not sorry okay it's
0:13:23 impossible to bring anything like that
0:13:24 from the quran which is explicit saying
0:13:26 there's twelve infallible imams if you
0:13:28 follow them you're guided if you don't
0:13:29 follow them it's that kind of thing i'm
0:13:30 not even in those words but anything
0:13:32 that indicates exactly
0:13:33 indirectly all right fine what could
0:13:35 they bring now from the quran
0:13:39 to my mind
0:13:45 maybe
0:13:46 yeah all right so what is this ayah can
0:13:48 you translate it for us so this ayah is
0:13:50 in surah baqarah
0:13:51 ibrahim
0:13:53 islam
0:13:56 he responds by saying that
0:13:59 indeed we are
0:14:01 making you appointing you as an imam for
0:14:02 the people so ibrahim alaihissalam in
0:14:05 return asks
0:14:08 and for my progeny also make imam then
0:14:10 allah says
0:14:12 my pledge my promise will not
0:14:15 reach the volume in the transgressions
0:14:17 meaning they will not become imam so on
0:14:19 this point brother hajis had this book
0:14:21 of us
0:14:22 this evidence actually used in the book
0:14:25 yeah the same evidence is used in the
0:14:26 book uh is on the authority of imam
0:14:28 jaffa yes imam jaffar he says
0:14:40 a slave before he made him into a nabi
0:14:42 emissary
0:14:57 he made him to khalil friend beloved
0:14:59 and then
0:15:04 and indeed allah made him into a khalil
0:15:07 before he made him into an imam falam
0:15:11 i mean all of these things gathered for
0:15:12 ibrahimovic all these qualities then
0:15:14 allah said
0:15:17 imam the indeed we make you as an imam
0:15:19 for the people
0:15:20 therefore famine
0:15:24 islam saw the greatness of this position
0:15:26 of being imam allah says
0:15:29 he said oh allah from my project also
0:15:31 make imam allah said
0:15:36 and my promise will not reach the valley
0:15:38 mean the transgressors yeah so this is
0:15:39 in usual
0:15:41 in chapter 59
0:15:43 narration number two
0:15:45 okay brilliant so what do you think the
0:15:47 shiite will try and
0:15:49 say with this verse and what's the
0:15:51 argument how would you flesh out their
0:15:52 argument in prince
0:15:54 what are they trying to say
0:15:56 okay
0:15:57 so in essence they are extracting that
0:15:59 yeah imam
0:16:01 is a quality that ibrahim alaihi salam
0:16:02 had to reach right by going through all
0:16:04 of these stages and because of the
0:16:06 progeny of the prophet muhammad saddam
0:16:08 which is the best of progenies yeah they
0:16:10 didn't need to go through you know naboo
0:16:12 or or you know
0:16:14 russell or even a friend they could
0:16:16 reach that station brilliant okay like
0:16:17 that now let's get everyone else
0:16:18 involved and let me ask you the question
0:16:20 so how would you respond to this someone
0:16:22 brings this verse which is a common
0:16:24 verse that they will use what will be
0:16:25 your response
0:16:28 yeah so
0:16:30 if
0:16:31 if we take it as they're just talking
0:16:32 about just the fact that the word imam
0:16:34 is being used yeah we'll see in the
0:16:36 quran you have like imam being used in a
0:16:37 lot of like different contexts a lot of
0:16:39 different ways yes you know you've got
0:16:40 imam being like a referring to like a
0:16:42 book you have uh like imams and like you
0:16:45 have
0:16:47 you have imams that call towards the
0:16:49 health obviously now they're saying that
0:16:50 this is
0:16:51 a specifically a religious role i guess
0:16:53 it's it's a good thing because it's
0:16:54 being applied to ibrahim
0:16:56 the thing is that with that
0:16:58 all of these sort of attachments that
0:16:59 you bring to it sort of the theological
0:17:01 concept you're adding to it to make the
0:17:02 idea of you know as with all the things
0:17:04 you mentioned infallible has knowledge
0:17:06 the this position all these kind of
0:17:07 things that basis isn't there
0:17:10 okay so we could even grant for
0:17:11 argument's sake so this is very good uh
0:17:13 there's a difference between exit jesus
0:17:15 and i see jesus exegesis is when you
0:17:17 take something from the scriptural
0:17:20 text and you understand it from it so
0:17:22 you understand the words
0:17:24 and you understand from the book and i
0:17:25 said jesus is when you have your own
0:17:27 preconceived notion and superimpose it
0:17:29 onto the text
0:17:30 i think there's something that maybe we
0:17:31 should have mentioned before getting to
0:17:33 talk about these ayats because obviously
0:17:34 with the quran we mentioned at the
0:17:36 beginning they said for this is that
0:17:38 uh and obviously then like we have a
0:17:40 quranic basis to say that that which is
0:17:42 foundational should be stated explicitly
0:17:44 in the quran in a way that doesn't we
0:17:46 will come to that is i don't think
0:17:48 that's how i would make the the argument
0:17:50 that it should be stated in the quran
0:17:52 i'll come to this it's a good question
0:17:54 it's a good point but i think i'll put
0:17:55 it in a different way going back to the
0:17:57 point though
0:17:58 uh the point is if you
0:18:01 and this is your point the point is that
0:18:02 when you look at the quran the word imam
0:18:05 in the arabic language means a leader
0:18:07 and it's a neutral term because it could
0:18:09 mean
0:18:10 a leader which is positive and the
0:18:11 leader which is negative and the quran
0:18:13 uses both things
0:18:17 we have made them imams that guide to
0:18:18 the hellfire
0:18:22 so fight the imams of this belief
0:18:25 so you have positive and negative and
0:18:27 then you also have
0:18:29 imam
0:18:30 for the pious ones and imam
0:18:32 you know
0:18:40 not this one sajdah
0:18:46 yeah yeah yeah yeah but both i mean both
0:18:48 are yes it proves the point no i was
0:18:49 just thinking
0:18:50 the point is this is that you can have
0:18:51 it in positive and negative and it means
0:18:53 just a leader that's what imam means
0:18:54 right
0:18:56 now having said that
0:18:58 let's go back to the verse okay
0:19:01 what does it say it says that allah has
0:19:04 made ibrahim
0:19:10 want you to just before we answer this
0:19:11 question
0:19:14 this is
0:19:15 another surah
0:19:17 which is
0:19:24 okay where allah is speaking to ibrahim
0:19:27 once again
0:19:28 and he says and the same terminology is
0:19:30 being used
0:19:34 yeah
0:19:36 make a then for the people to come to
0:19:38 the hajj
0:19:40 and they'll come from
0:19:41 with every lean camel
0:19:44 yeah and if you know from every high
0:19:47 place meaning
0:19:48 is it is this a localized thing or is
0:19:50 this a universalized thing
0:19:53 it's a universalized thing
0:19:55 so the first thing is
0:19:56 if they say why is it that allah says
0:20:03 it's because ibrahim it could very
0:20:05 easily be argued that he has been made
0:20:08 just like the prophet muhammed but on a
0:20:10 lesser scale
0:20:12 he has been made
0:20:13 as a guide for all the people
0:20:16 he is actually made as a guide for all
0:20:18 the people and the evidence of that
0:20:19 is that we still
0:20:22 go to hajj
0:20:23 okay we still go to hajj now
0:20:25 and the initial call was given by brahim
0:20:29 and in that sense he's imam
0:20:31 in the sense that he is the spiritual
0:20:33 forefather of all of the other and
0:20:36 that's why we in the prayer we say
0:20:38 we connect the prophet muhammad with the
0:20:40 prophet
0:20:42 the point is
0:20:47 all of the prophets were imams in their
0:20:48 own capacity
0:20:50 but not all of them had the distinction
0:20:51 of being
0:20:53 ness or imams for the people
0:20:56 they were said for their certain nation
0:20:58 or their certainty yes
0:21:00 stands for leaders yes
0:21:02 the other thing this this verse cannot
0:21:04 be evidence for them is the verse itself
0:21:09 yes so why does the concept of imam
0:21:11 start from the prophet
0:21:15 why does the concept of imam begin from
0:21:17 the thuriya of prophet
0:21:19 ibrahim
0:21:21 because he said women
0:21:23 yeah yeah yeah the twelfth imams just
0:21:24 start from ibraheem islam
0:21:26 yeah meaning his sons ismail in this
0:21:27 haqq then upon the twelfth imams right
0:21:30 and the first mistake application of
0:21:32 three and this verse is the children of
0:21:33 ibraheem islam and this verse is against
0:21:35 them even more in another way so we've
0:21:37 said number one the word imam could be
0:21:39 neutral it could be not neutral uh it
0:21:41 could be
0:21:42 good or bad so it's neutral in that
0:21:44 sense number two we spoke about how
0:21:46 islam nas
0:21:47 number three if ibrahimo is that imam
0:21:50 how many imams are there
0:21:54 i mean because remember it's going to be
0:21:55 12 imams right
0:21:57 okay but if ibrahim is an imam now
0:21:59 there's 13 imams
0:22:01 but what about the prophet muhammad
0:22:03 is he not an imam
0:22:05 so he they would say he's a imam as well
0:22:07 so there's 14 what 14 imams
0:22:09 so now there's not 12 imams anymore so
0:22:12 you have a big problem here because if
0:22:14 you're trying to prove this concept from
0:22:15 the quran and you're saying look you can
0:22:18 see with ibrahim in the
0:22:20 you ibrahim
0:22:22 if he becomes imam you don't have to
0:22:23 imams anymore it's become distorted it's
0:22:25 become 13 imams
0:22:27 you see the point then that actually is
0:22:31 but i won't present it yeah
0:22:34 the imam is saying that there will be 12
0:22:36 iman from the offspring of the prophet
0:22:37 muhammad sallallahu alaihi now if you
0:22:39 think about it 12 from the offspring ali
0:22:41 from the offspring from the from the
0:22:43 oled but
0:22:44 isn't from the allah and he's the first
0:22:46 imam great good
0:22:48 13. that's another problem here isn't it
0:22:50 and there's too many problems and that
0:22:51 and up the line is authentic brilliant
0:22:53 now this is one evidence i think we've
0:22:55 dispatched with it
0:22:57 is there any other things do you think
0:22:58 they'll come back with because i haven't
0:22:59 heard them in all these years of
0:23:00 debating she has to respond to this
0:23:03 let's play that with advocates yeah
0:23:04 so if they say you know the argument the
0:23:06 first argument what you said about with
0:23:07 nurse and nasser
0:23:09 i don't know if they have like
0:23:11 in the same way that we do yeah but if
0:23:12 they say that that nurse in the eye of
0:23:15 bakara
0:23:16 that is it's made specified by other
0:23:19 hadith for example that would say that
0:23:21 the
0:23:22 that specified they're being imams for
0:23:24 each particular nation
0:23:26 would not apply to akhbar
0:23:28 it's only to come anyway
0:23:30 so this would be more quran right
0:23:32 so
0:23:34 don't apply to akbar
0:23:49 yep it just does it do you know no no
0:23:50 you don't come you can't there's nothing
0:23:52 like that
0:23:54 the quran explains itself this one i
0:23:56 explained yeah yeah no but the the the
0:23:57 the
0:23:58 the reason why it's impossible for us
0:23:59 and now the idea of generic and specific
0:24:01 specific to apply to akbar because it
0:24:04 would apply contradiction between verses
0:24:06 because actually one of the things is
0:24:08 a haas can
0:24:10 there's a difference of opinion here is
0:24:11 a haas
0:24:13 there's even a kalam on this between the
0:24:14 suli's
0:24:16 the haas is something which does
0:24:18 abrogation of that which is
0:24:20 uh general but i'm not saying that's
0:24:22 molten ishmael there's a debate but the
0:24:24 reason why they say that is because it
0:24:25 gives you information which in many ways
0:24:28 from one perspective seemingly
0:24:30 contradicts the information engineering
0:24:32 but this is impossible for
0:24:34 in the narratives it's it's only
0:24:36 possible in that camp
0:24:38 and it's also possible in as well
0:24:58 so they say so that nurse then that some
0:25:01 of the first thing will say that that's
0:25:03 referring to the prophet
0:25:04 okay so what
0:25:05 what is that is that is that doesn't do
0:25:07 anything for us we know that we know
0:25:09 that ness can be used it's called
0:25:12 what you call it
0:25:34 it's not all the people some of the
0:25:36 people so what's the difference between
0:25:38 this case
0:25:39 okay i got you
0:25:40 yes in this case is the the the context
0:25:44 makes it clear
0:25:46 the context makes it clear rather than
0:25:48 it's
0:25:49 it's not like
0:25:50 the the the
0:25:52 specific is impinging on the generic
0:25:54 here
0:26:03 is talking about everyone except for the
0:26:05 volume yeah and it can't be one person
0:26:06 because it's not yes it's talking about
0:26:08 more than one person here there's a
0:26:09 restriction now
0:26:10 yeah yeah
0:26:11 all right so that's that's one thing the
0:26:13 second thing is who has heard of and
0:26:15 let's bring some people that haven't
0:26:16 spoken
0:26:18 you haven't been here for some time so
0:26:19 i'm gonna have to throw you in
0:26:21 into the deep end okay
0:26:23 uh of the hadith of kiset
0:26:27 this is a huge one that they will use
0:26:29 okay what is it tell us
0:26:32 um
0:26:33 okay
0:26:34 so the i believe the hadith of kissa is
0:26:37 about the um
0:26:40 so i believe in ayah was revealed
0:26:42 um
0:26:43 and it was talking about the um
0:26:46 yes and following this the revelation of
0:26:48 this ayah um the prophet salallahu
0:26:51 he
0:26:52 went into the house i believe of um
0:26:57 or maybe someone else's house could be
0:26:58 wrong there
0:27:00 and one of the hadith came in yeah and
0:27:02 that's what they claim is like you know
0:27:05 into the the yeah
0:27:06 um so and in this hadith um the prophet
0:27:09 sallallahu alaihi he gathered
0:27:11 um
0:27:12 hussein hassan
0:27:16 and i believe maybe also fatima as well
0:27:20 and he said you know um
0:27:22 you know these are my utter debates
0:27:24 these are my
0:27:26 family yeah family members yeah okay and
0:27:29 then uh i believe in yeah there are
0:27:31 which includes um
0:27:33 she asked am i not your athlete
0:27:35 and
0:27:36 um
0:27:37 yeah i think here this may be a
0:27:39 different sort of like between different
0:27:40 wedding of hadith and
0:27:42 uh i believe in the uh you know the
0:27:45 hadith that they would like to use that
0:27:47 he said no you're not from
0:27:49 you know and it's these people who are
0:27:50 within my cloak
0:27:53 okay yeah and any uh now how what does
0:27:55 this show
0:27:57 someone else someone what do you think
0:27:59 this shows for them
0:28:01 and what point are they trying to make
0:28:03 uh how about you uh
0:28:07 what do you think they're trying to what
0:28:08 point are they trying to make that okay
0:28:10 buddy
0:28:11 the believers
0:28:12 are not part of the habit good so since
0:28:14 your wives are the prophets are not the
0:28:16 part of the family
0:28:18 and what are they what point are they
0:28:20 trying to make with the cassette that's
0:28:21 how these are the only ones right but
0:28:23 then how many are on that cassette
0:28:26 so is uh hassan hussein fatima yeah okay
0:28:30 so how many is that all together with
0:28:31 the prophet four
0:28:33 five incredible yeah okay great so how
0:28:35 many is it no
0:28:37 how many is i'm not oh the twelve okay
0:28:39 twelve all right so there's already an
0:28:41 issue here okay see okay
0:28:43 but let's let's um let's unpack this a
0:28:45 little bit how do you deal with this
0:28:47 particular hadith
0:28:52 first of all albeit and imams are they
0:28:53 the same concept
0:28:56 no okay remember the shias call
0:28:57 themselves bait as well
0:29:00 and bait though and this may be a
0:29:02 tangential point but they'll say that
0:29:05 the prophet left behind athakale the two
0:29:07 heavy things the quran and the bait
0:29:11 on the family of the prophets uh the
0:29:13 family of the prophet
0:29:14 and
0:29:15 this is the
0:29:16 hadith from the sunday books that they
0:29:17 will use the main hadith of the sunni
0:29:19 books that they will use
0:29:21 now it is connected to imams
0:29:23 because they'll say that this is also
0:29:25 the basis for imam
0:29:26 in many ways because it shows that these
0:29:28 are the people yeah who are chosen by
0:29:31 the prophet who the prophet chose and
0:29:33 from their extensions
0:29:35 who the imams will be
0:29:38 so what do we have to say about
0:29:41 that
0:29:47 how about yourself
0:29:49 see the elite itself and the thing
0:29:51 that's intimidating there is kalam
0:30:06 to the bait
0:30:10 now that hadith mentions about those
0:30:12 where sadaqah is not given to at the end
0:30:13 of the hadith
0:30:17 the family have a bus so the end the
0:30:19 verse that they use is about the
0:30:21 this is what this leads up to
0:30:24 that allah wants to purify you all
0:30:26 members of the household yeah okay
0:30:28 in according to the shia as well
0:30:30 according to the imam infallible imam
0:30:31 this just means shaq
0:30:33 which means doubt to remove doubt from
0:30:35 you it doesn't mean infallibility nor
0:30:37 does it mean
0:30:38 uh you know that you've got
0:30:40 12 lineage or 12 offspring from the
0:30:42 prophet muhammad islam so that it really
0:30:44 sub doesn't mean we have to do it
0:30:46 of the island
0:30:47 to follow okay to directly follow them
0:30:50 in connection with the quran it doesn't
0:30:51 mean that at all but they try to
0:30:53 obviously interpolate by saying no as
0:30:54 the prophet i mentioned the quran along
0:30:56 with it that means you have to follow
0:30:57 that a little bit great so how would you
0:30:59 deal with this if
0:31:01 you were dealing with shia right now
0:31:03 the evidence of
0:31:04 that you have to follow this this data
0:31:06 bait
0:31:07 is these these are under four in
0:31:09 addition
0:31:11 and they form the basis for the imams as
0:31:13 well no because the imams itself are not
0:31:16 being they've been divinely chosen by
0:31:18 god according to them so that hadith
0:31:19 doesn't mention who they are number one
0:31:21 okay because a little bait is vast it's
0:31:23 not restricted to the debate of hassan
0:31:26 so we need to narrow down now who are
0:31:28 these people that we need to follow
0:31:30 they can't prove that okay great yeah
0:31:32 yeah
0:31:33 even with that
0:31:34 muslim that there will be 12
0:31:36 they use that as well on top of it
0:31:38 there's no mention of those twelve and
0:31:40 it will come to this oh sorry i'm trying
0:31:42 to connect it with the number that's
0:31:43 good so yeah so there's no actual
0:31:44 evidence in it within itself which is
0:31:46 qatari that says that you have to troll
0:31:48 follow 12 members from the albeit of the
0:31:50 prophet muhammad saw it isn't just by
0:31:52 this hadith
0:31:53 okay if it's the extensions of
0:31:56 these
0:31:57 individuals that are underneath the
0:31:59 cloak
0:32:01 how how many uh extensions how many
0:32:03 people were
0:32:05 the children of al-hasan
0:32:07 the divorce hassan
0:32:09 from this
0:32:10 because if it's hadith he was under that
0:32:12 kissa so why isn't his offspring
0:32:13 included
0:32:14 okay great
0:32:15 so exactly exactly right
0:32:18 yeah so if this is the evidence
0:32:21 then now once again it doesn't actually
0:32:24 prove the point because if it's the
0:32:25 extensions then it will
0:32:41 why they're not involved in this and now
0:32:43 this is imams and uh
0:32:45 so they need another to cover that it's
0:32:46 restricted to them okay exactly which
0:32:49 they don't have
0:32:50 which is difficult for them it's
0:32:51 possible do you want to add to it yeah
0:32:53 so i think notwithstanding the hadith
0:32:56 intricacies and the kalam and the hadith
0:32:58 etcetera also the usually perspective
0:32:59 that even if a single chain of hadith is
0:33:02 authentic if it goes against the quran
0:33:05 which is definitive so out of allah and
0:33:07 his rasool etc those verses we don't
0:33:09 take that single solitaryness which
0:33:11 means that if a single chain of hadith
0:33:14 even hypothetically if we accept it to
0:33:16 be sahih
0:33:17 but if it contradicts the definitive
0:33:19 evidences of the quran which is
0:33:21 postulated otherwise yeah if that
0:33:23 obedience yeah other than that yeah then
0:33:26 we don't take that single hadith that's
0:33:27 number one okay
0:33:28 but as they say in a double bathroom
0:33:30 which means in the articles of the
0:33:32 discussion yeah that allah nazar will
0:33:35 come down to your level will we accept
0:33:38 we'll concede your argument that yes
0:33:41 should be followed right yes
0:33:44 yes hypothetically
0:33:46 the over mistake the first uh meaning of
0:33:49 application i'll obey his wife
0:33:57 told his family to stay here because he
0:33:59 saw fire from distance he was primarily
0:34:01 speaking to his wife
0:34:03 so why isn't aisha the allah
0:34:12 what other evidences can we can we show
0:34:14 from the quran that it includes wives
0:34:17 the same verses in question which is is
0:34:19 the one that starts with the only
0:34:20 certain the b like they're so
0:34:23 we're saying that the the address is
0:34:24 here directly explicitly to the uh to
0:34:27 the to the wives of the prophet because
0:34:29 they would have to say that you've got
0:34:31 all of these verses before and then the
0:34:33 part of the verse and then the end of
0:34:34 the verse which is obviously explicitly
0:34:36 addressing the women yeah but then it's
0:34:38 only this one part here that's that's
0:34:39 not that verse is good
0:34:46 or allah
0:34:52 so this verse itself which they refer to
0:34:54 as
0:34:55 purification it starts off by speaking
0:34:57 to the wives of the prophet and then it
0:34:59 says
0:35:00 in them
0:35:12 practically for those who believe in
0:35:14 such a thing as taraduf which means
0:35:16 synonyms in the quran
0:35:19 synonyms but if they're not they can be
0:35:21 used interchangeably and they both mean
0:35:22 family by ishmael the or the consensus
0:35:25 of those who are in dictionaries
0:36:00 but i'm thinking of another verse
0:36:02 because we've mentioned two one more
0:36:04 yeah
0:36:06 um said did you not wonder at the decree
0:36:08 of allah and his mercy
0:36:52 linguistically and now
0:36:55 yeah but quran is present now
0:36:58 not just linguistically even in our um
0:37:01 in our conventional usage i'm here with
0:37:03 my family
0:37:05 what's the first thing the first sword
0:37:06 that comes to mind when i say i'm here
0:37:07 with my family wife
0:37:10 sure sure and and there are hadith that
0:37:12 say that when you approach your l
0:37:15 and it's meaning sexual intercourse now
0:37:17 this will be very problematic but
0:37:18 obviously um
0:37:20 there is no uh we're sticking with the
0:37:21 quran for obvious reasons right but so
0:37:24 ah and arabic languages clearly means
0:37:26 wives
0:37:28 but that's why they translate it as the
0:37:30 best of you are the best of your wives
0:37:32 you know because
0:37:33 uh al and ethel
0:37:35 uh it means uh it means
0:37:37 wives uh as per the quranic discourse
0:37:42 when the protestant uh entered upon uh
0:37:45 the room of aisha and the prophet saws
0:37:58 i'm sure we can go to the arabic uh
0:38:00 poetries and stuff like that
0:38:02 i'm not to go to i'm not going to do
0:38:04 that
0:38:04 myself but we can maybe do it some other
0:38:06 day but we can get the the word for
0:38:08 pre-islam meaning that
0:38:11 so
0:38:12 if they say we have to follow that bait
0:38:14 the wives of the prophet they'll say
0:38:16 it excludes
0:38:18 the the wives of the prophet and but
0:38:22 then there's another issue
0:38:26 as per the shiite conception is there
0:38:29 anyone else they consider to be a debate
0:38:36 right so you've got people other people
0:38:38 what about al habess
0:38:43 the uncle of the prophet muhammad what
0:38:45 is his status
0:38:46 not very
0:38:48 not very um he's not inclusive uh even
0:38:51 at best i know that i have passed
0:38:53 so yeah that why isn't he included it's
0:38:56 a good question yeah
0:38:58 what do we do with them do you give them
0:38:59 sadhaka now or do we what do we do
0:39:02 they're going back to your point about
0:39:03 sadaqa right because you don't give
0:39:05 salah sorry they're cats
0:39:09 so there will be a lot of these
0:39:10 questions now that's dealing with imam
0:39:13 and the issues of it
0:39:15 we've shown decisively that there really
0:39:17 is no basis for this now going back to
0:39:19 your question you say okay well should
0:39:21 and this is an important question should
0:39:23 all of the soul of the religion the
0:39:25 foundations the critical foundations of
0:39:28 the religion be included in the quran
0:39:30 we don't need to
0:39:32 say yes or no for example
0:39:33 it's not mentioned in the quran because
0:39:35 someone could argue that he's mentioned
0:39:36 that he is from the soul of the religion
0:39:38 al-mahdi
0:39:39 for example fine oh
0:39:49 the punishments of the grave
0:39:51 it's not that
0:39:54 should it be mentioned in the quran
0:39:55 that's not the argument
0:39:58 we have a hadith which is narrated by
0:40:00 umar muhattab which is one of the most
0:40:02 famous hadiths
0:40:04 if not the most famous hadith in all of
0:40:05 islam
0:40:07 islam uh what do you call it
0:40:09 when the angel said to the prophet he
0:40:11 said what is it islam and then he told
0:40:12 him the five pillars and then says
0:40:22 and he mentions the six pillars of iman
0:40:23 to believe in allah to believe in the
0:40:25 angels to believe in the the the
0:40:28 the and so on and
0:40:30 and the books and the last day and qatar
0:40:33 predestination
0:40:34 this these are the foundations of the
0:40:36 akita of islam they are narrated by one
0:40:38 of the protagonists of the sunni creed
0:40:40 who is um
0:40:43 can we find those six in the quran
0:40:46 can we find the five pillars of islam in
0:40:47 the quran
0:40:48 can we find the idea of the quran yes so
0:40:51 everything that is narrated as the
0:40:53 foundations of islam
0:40:55 as per the most
0:40:56 foundational things we believe in all of
0:40:58 it can be found in the quran
0:41:01 even there's one verse in swaziland
0:41:18 there's other verses
0:41:24 and so and so on the six pillars of iman
0:41:26 can be found in the quran
0:41:28 the sixth five years of islam can be
0:41:30 found the quran
0:41:31 so isn't it isn't that conspicuous
0:41:33 absence
0:41:35 that all of these things can be found in
0:41:36 the quran
0:41:38 but what they have a hadith which is
0:41:39 very similar to that is their version of
0:41:43 hadith
0:41:44 which is uh
0:41:58 so it mentions the five pillars and one
0:42:00 of them is
0:42:01 wiley by the way is sometimes synonymous
0:42:03 with imam this word
0:42:05 so if what you're saying is the
0:42:07 foundations of the religion one of those
0:42:09 things is imam with the concept of 12
0:42:11 infallibles
0:42:13 and that's not found in the same way as
0:42:15 all the things we found we consider
0:42:18 foundational then the question is why
0:42:20 it's not the burden of proof is not upon
0:42:22 me
0:42:23 to tell you or it should be or shouldn't
0:42:24 be or all the things have to be in the
0:42:26 quran or the dean whatever what you want
0:42:28 to call it i'm not making this argument
0:42:30 i'm just saying why is it that something
0:42:32 so foundational is not in the quran
0:42:37 the quran says we haven't left anything
0:42:39 from the book ishmael a lot of scholars
0:42:41 say this is
0:42:42 all the generic things that are required
0:42:44 for guidance have not been left out of
0:42:45 the book
0:42:46 the best thing you can find for me is
0:42:48 this idea of indi
0:42:51 nasi imam
0:42:52 this is with the the the a that we spoke
0:42:55 about with ibrahim it's not strong
0:42:57 enough and it's not good enough and it's
0:42:58 not good enough to put someone in the
0:42:59 hell fire forever
0:43:02 how could i mean you know put someone in
0:43:04 the hellfire for something which is
0:43:06 not even mentioned clearly in the quran
0:43:09 there's a narration we're not captain
0:43:23 i remember these narrations when we were
0:43:25 going through this yes he's
0:43:27 it's a really good point and there are
0:43:29 other
0:43:30 they say well
0:43:31 i had this i had this conversation they
0:43:33 went and sent me viral with one of the
0:43:35 shiites
0:43:36 he said to me find me one
0:43:39 example of someone else being called a
0:43:41 welly
0:43:43 yeah yeah he said there's someone else
0:43:45 being called welly apart from the soviet
0:43:47 imams
0:43:48 i said well we are called
0:43:52 bad
0:44:49 your imam is telling me that he's not an
0:44:51 imam but you're throwing me into the
0:44:52 half-life for not believing in him
0:44:55 there you have it and they do believe
0:44:57 that they will say it with the the way
0:44:59 that they will um
0:45:01 do that wheel of these or they're all
0:45:02 kind of hermeneutically
0:45:04 squirm away from these particular
0:45:06 narrations is by saying things like
0:45:09 well
0:45:11 which means and this is a concept which
0:45:13 is
0:45:14 is known right
0:45:16 they can do it to keep their religion
0:45:19 is ideal of hiding something even to
0:45:21 them we're lying about something this
0:45:22 even to the point that
0:45:24 one of their major scholars in the
0:45:25 fourth century in his muslim is akida
0:45:28 wrote that if you reject taqiyya you are
0:45:30 careful but then we'll feed how to do it
0:45:33 and goes no no no can you translate the
0:45:35 arabic sounds well basically that if you
0:45:37 reject like the simulation of your faith
0:45:39 so obviously in islam you know sunnah we
0:45:41 believe you can
0:45:42 sort of utter words of disbelief if it
0:45:45 you know if your life's at risk or
0:45:46 something so that's used but in in
0:45:49 in uh what you called in
0:45:51 they could use it to dissimulate their
0:45:53 faith and also use it to reconcile with
0:45:56 people but then manifest it later
0:45:58 so sadok said if you reject taqiyya then
0:46:01 you are a disbeliever then al-mufid who
0:46:04 came i think in the fifth century had to
0:46:06 write a task
0:46:07 which means the correction of the belief
0:46:08 and he said no no no we don't accept
0:46:10 this and he went into a laborative
0:46:11 discussion so it shows up there's a
0:46:13 discussion on whether this thing is
0:46:15 lying and i think this as well like
0:46:17 check this out you have to remember
0:46:19 shiite books or their books were very
0:46:21 very
0:46:22 secretive
0:46:23 so if you look at me
0:46:25 he never quotes from their works because
0:46:27 he was not accessible
0:46:29 what his interactions what he had he
0:46:31 used to base or formulate his beliefs
0:46:32 upon there now we live in a global
0:46:34 village where we've got it in our hands
0:46:35 now this wasn't the idea of the early
0:46:38 shia scholars where we could have their
0:46:40 books and we could refer to it so
0:46:42 bearing that in mind
0:46:45 yeah so that's that's that that's that's
0:46:47 good all right so i think if unless
0:46:48 there's anything that's pressing
0:46:51 and from anyone that you think uh is
0:46:54 important and pertinent on this issue of
0:46:55 imam
0:46:56 is there anything that you think could
0:46:58 be a conversation with someone before i
0:47:00 came here yes and he said that one of
0:47:01 the things that's important to to look
0:47:03 at with this is exactly what capacity
0:47:05 what does that mean to be an imam
0:47:07 like is it is it like a position of
0:47:09 political authority or leadership
0:47:11 or is it a position of like just
0:47:13 spiritual influence
0:47:15 exactly and so there is a i think this
0:47:17 is where maybe we can bring this hadith
0:47:20 of uh
0:47:22 even
0:47:28 because they'll say look you know the
0:47:30 sunni books say there's going to be 12
0:47:34 now what does the word khalifa mean
0:48:00 we have given you
0:48:01 authority on the earth
0:48:03 or successorship authority and so on
0:48:06 now
0:48:07 this is very clear
0:48:09 in the quran we don't need to go to
0:48:10 hadees or books or whatever
0:48:13 the word khalif indicates political
0:48:15 authority a very simple question
0:48:18 is
0:48:19 did any
0:48:21 we do know some of them did actually
0:48:24 how many of the two of the twelve
0:48:27 how many of the twelve so-called imams
0:48:31 had political authority
0:48:33 two two two yeah so they couldn't have
0:48:36 been
0:48:37 it could not be this hadith where it's
0:48:39 talking about twelve years
0:48:41 cannot be speaking about them
0:48:43 because if they weren't they were simply
0:48:45 not given that
0:48:47 station
0:48:48 in the same way the wood was in the
0:48:50 quran
0:48:51 by the way
0:48:52 which kind of insulted
0:48:54 this verse as well it's in um
0:48:57 uh of um
0:48:59 and he mentioned on the day of judgment
0:49:01 an announcer would announce from inside
0:49:03 the throne where is the khalifa on the
0:49:05 earth
0:49:06 so i was making this announcement
0:49:08 so the prophet of allah will stand up
0:49:10 and so a voice will say we did not mean
0:49:13 you
0:49:14 although you were allah then the second
0:49:16 landman was made and where allah found
0:49:18 earth then amir muhammadin gets up so a
0:49:21 voice will come from allah the most high
0:49:22 this is
0:49:24 on the earth
0:49:25 so yeah and this and this is important
0:49:27 to note that according to authentic
0:49:29 right
0:49:30 according to shia i believe
0:49:33 the imams um are higher
0:49:36 in status
0:49:38 than the prophets with the exception of
0:49:40 prophet muhammad with the exception so
0:49:42 they will say ali is better than ibrahim
0:49:45 now with this how can we refute it quite
0:49:47 easily
0:49:48 well what does the quran say about that
0:49:50 fatima is better than
0:49:52 mary
0:49:53 okay but what about the quran what does
0:49:55 it say about that
0:50:10 given them virtue over everybody they'll
0:50:12 say that
0:50:13 includes the imams
0:50:16 there's another area
0:50:20 as well he mentions that the sahaba
0:50:23 uh the taharif of the verse so it says
0:50:27 that they did um they tampered with the
0:50:28 verse so allah chose
0:50:33 but also ali muhammad was in there and
0:50:34 it's it's narrated it's authentic in
0:50:36 that book i'll give you yeah that's a
0:50:38 very good point that's interesting i
0:50:39 didn't know that i wanted i want to ask
0:50:41 just quran quiz i guess you know
0:50:44 there's another verse just to give you
0:50:46 and maybe i'm trying to pretend that i
0:50:47 know it you know
0:50:50 hey so where
0:51:37 well they have a strong belief that the
0:51:39 quran has been tempered
0:51:43 yeah okay so i'll stop them i'll stop
0:51:45 and there's one more thing sorry before
0:51:47 you before you make a point
0:51:49 one more verse now fatima who's higher
0:51:51 fatimah or or the prophet's daughter
0:51:53 fatima or mary
0:51:56 what's the evidence in the quran
0:51:59 now you can go to al-ahmar
0:52:14 that's very clear that allah has chosen
0:52:16 you and favored you and chose you over
0:52:18 whom
0:52:19 all of the women of the all of the women
0:52:21 of the
0:52:23 alam in the the worlds
0:52:26 so
0:52:26 this indicates superiority of mary over
0:52:30 fatima
0:52:32 it does indicate that
0:52:33 so in this case you can't say that i
0:52:36 mean
0:52:37 the hell bait
0:52:39 giving them that status at the expense
0:52:42 of profits and messengers that have come
0:52:44 from completely different lineage
0:52:46 is something which is anti-chronic
0:52:48 discourse
0:52:49 very clearly
0:52:54 i know mentioned specific verses but
0:52:56 just the general point of that if imam
0:52:58 is more important than prophethood you
0:53:01 have so many as you mentioned prophets
0:53:02 being mentioned by names in the quran
0:53:04 like these imams are not mentioned by
0:53:05 name none of them are mentioned by them
0:53:07 yeah not one of them is mentioned by
0:53:08 them ali is not mentioned by name
0:53:10 explicitly the concept of prophethood is
0:53:12 throughout the quran like you know it's
0:53:14 hard to go a few pages without coming
0:53:15 across a mention of prophets or history
0:53:17 exactly that's the first thing the
0:53:18 second thing is we said with regarding
0:53:20 the position of the imams whether it's a
0:53:22 political position or a spiritual one we
0:53:24 said if it's or in the hadith of
0:53:29 if it's political as we said like only
0:53:31 two of them had political authority
0:53:33 exactly but then the question is so if
0:53:34 it's not political and it's spiritual
0:53:36 yeah then what's all the what's all the
0:53:38 the commotion about to do with abu bakr
0:53:40 and um
0:53:42 like the whole point of shitism is just
0:53:44 we've just lost it yeah yeah because why
0:53:45 why should we
0:53:46 they'll come back with some
0:53:49 he usurped the rights i don't want to go
0:53:51 into that now because it will be more in
0:53:52 this next section here but before i go
0:53:54 to the next section does anyone have
0:53:56 anything else to say about imam
0:54:00 are we talking
0:54:02 about
0:54:05 sorry mama yeah imam still okay i'll
0:54:07 give you one then one narration please
0:54:09 do yeah yeah it's in command to deal
0:54:11 with
0:54:12 to the point to show you that this is
0:54:14 from the fundamentals beautiful mentions
0:54:16 uh
0:54:18 allah is talking to the prophet
0:54:20 sallallahu island and says muhammad if a
0:54:22 slave
0:54:24 this is in the book itself yeah uh
0:54:26 kamaladin which is by asado okay okay
0:54:29 okay and so he mentions it's lengthy but
0:54:31 i'll get to the main point he mentions
0:54:33 oh muhammad if
0:54:34 a slave worshiped me to the point that
0:54:36 he becomes tired and his body body
0:54:38 becomes brittle as milk i mean bit
0:54:40 brittle as musk i and he rejects your
0:54:43 willah i mean there we lie i mean a
0:54:45 little
0:54:46 yeah then
0:54:48 i will not give him any mercy i will not
0:54:50 place him under the ar even if he's to
0:54:52 worship to the point that he will
0:54:54 worship and his body becomes tired but
0:54:56 does not believe
0:54:57 in the will
0:55:02 then i will not give him shade
0:55:03 underneath my eye it's very clear it's
0:55:05 very clear yeah
0:55:06 so this is this would i think even shias
0:55:09 would use us against other shias who say
0:55:10 yeah
0:55:11 but now move on to the next thing which
0:55:13 is
0:55:17 the idea
0:55:18 well first of all
0:55:20 we have to kind of translate these terms
0:55:22 okay the justice if you like of
0:55:25 uh or the just status of the companions
0:55:28 of the prophet muhammad sallallahu
0:55:29 alaihi salaam so let's
0:55:31 let's first let's get a definition of
0:55:33 what a companion is who knows what the
0:55:35 sunni definition of what companion is
0:55:40 let's get someone first see
0:55:45 and
0:55:46 and was a muslim and and said islam and
0:55:51 died upon that one yeah
0:55:56 yeah
0:55:57 okay so okay let's let's put this in
0:55:58 perspective how many people are we
0:56:00 talking about here
0:56:05 yeah all right but how many people do
0:56:06 really do we know of that sahaba like we
0:56:09 have their
0:56:10 their names biographies
0:56:13 about four to five
0:56:14 thousand remember
0:56:16 wrote a book uh regarding the sahabah
0:56:18 yeah
0:56:19 that's all yeah you could i don't know
0:56:20 the numbers are the best five thousand
0:56:22 forty five thousand a four two five four
0:56:24 to five yeah four to five that we've got
0:56:26 their actual
0:56:27 full details and okay
0:56:29 so that's like two secondary schools
0:56:32 you know they really interacted with the
0:56:34 prophet it's like you know
0:56:36 put in a crude example having a head
0:56:37 teacher for two schools it's not
0:56:39 impossible my head teacher
0:56:42 knew me by name i'm sure maybe when you
0:56:45 were in secondary school your head
0:56:46 teacher knew you by name you might have
0:56:48 been year seven year eight
0:56:51 in the case of brother he always
0:56:52 looked like he was in year seven
0:56:59 um you know and so on but
0:57:02 you know it's not something
0:57:03 inconceivable at all you know these
0:57:05 people that live with the prophet they
0:57:07 they fought with the prophet
0:57:09 they ate with him
0:57:10 and so on okay these are the people
0:57:12 we're talking about now what is the
0:57:14 first thing we would say
0:57:17 to evidence
0:57:18 that these are the people
0:57:22 that we
0:57:23 take our religion from we accept our
0:57:26 uh good people that we are trustworthy
0:57:29 people what for us is the main evidence
0:57:31 from the quran that indicates their
0:57:33 trustworthiness and their noble status
0:57:36 these companions of the prophet
0:57:38 let's go to matthew
0:57:41 beautiful
0:57:43 okay so this is in chapter 9 verse 100.
0:58:20 is pleased with them and they are
0:58:22 pleased with him
0:58:24 there's nothing really more
0:58:26 clear than that
0:58:29 and then allah he tells us what kind of
0:58:31 you know uh goodness they will get
0:58:33 heaven and all this kind of thing
0:58:38 he says that he says that they are
0:58:40 pleased with him and they are pleased
0:58:42 with him
0:58:45 this is
0:58:47 clear
0:58:48 what would they say back to this
0:58:53 okay so the first let's go for the verse
0:58:59 yeah so no problem let's go with that
0:59:02 it says and those who are around you
0:59:03 from the bedouins
0:59:05 are hypocrites
0:59:15 you don't know them allah knows them
0:59:17 how would you respond
0:59:19 to this
0:59:26 okay brilliant okay excellent what does
0:59:27 what arab mean
0:59:29 bedouins okay so this could not be
0:59:32 talking about
0:59:33 omar
0:59:34 or the wives of the prophet because none
0:59:36 of them were bedouins yeah
0:59:39 and first of all women men
0:59:41 are all of the arab
1:00:02 it's not all of them
1:00:04 yeah yeah and
1:00:06 i just want to add on this you know the
1:00:07 whole concept of
1:00:09 hypocrisy because the
1:00:11 uh
1:00:12 they postulate
1:00:24 this is very clear from the quran
1:00:26 that the concept of started in madinah
1:00:30 the concept of nifak started in
1:00:33 medina
1:00:34 yeah the concept of
1:00:36 hypocrisy never existed in makkah
1:00:38 because in makkah whoever sincerely
1:00:41 accepted iman they had to go through
1:00:42 torture wow so ammunafi wouldn't accept
1:00:45 iman just just just so he can show
1:00:48 himself to the world that he's a mean
1:00:50 and then get tortured nobody's willing
1:00:51 to take torture for nothing you know
1:00:53 there's no benefit in accepting
1:00:55 islam outwardly inside makkah
1:00:58 yeah it's a really good really good
1:00:59 point so so the concept of
1:01:01 looking at the staff here in new zealand
1:01:04 et cetera is very clear in the surah
1:01:06 that is the concept of nifak started in
1:01:08 medina
1:01:19 now there is something we can say this
1:01:21 is one verse let's let's put all the
1:01:22 verses out there which are the most
1:01:23 powerful
1:01:25 this isn't sort of tawba
1:01:27 there's two more i want you to think
1:01:28 about because now you've spoken about
1:01:30 immigration
1:01:31 think about it
1:01:35 what are we talking about
1:01:37 maybe we should go to
1:01:39 and look at it chapter 59 of the quran
1:01:43 no this is not
1:01:45 yeah
1:02:10 is referring to the sahaba in in in
1:02:12 medina
1:02:13 because manhattan
1:02:15 those who migrate towards them referring
1:02:17 to the world what does it say about
1:02:18 those uh
1:02:23 so which means
1:02:24 they lived there so they loved the ones
1:02:26 who immigrated
1:02:36 that they never ever found any sort of
1:02:38 any difficulty or need because of these
1:02:40 people you know any sort of burden that
1:02:42 these people have migrated they didn't
1:02:43 find any burden rather they would give
1:02:45 preference to them
1:02:46 so
1:03:06 to make a place as your accommodation
1:03:07 yes as your residency yes so they made
1:03:10 the accommodation dar meaning medina is
1:03:12 referring to medina but also iman
1:03:15 iman is a kefir
1:03:17 you cannot make it
1:03:18 iman is is is a modality is is faith is
1:03:21 to do with the heart is the morality of
1:03:23 the heart you cannot make iman as your
1:03:25 house beautiful yeah you cannot make
1:03:27 iman as your
1:03:28 house you guys you can make birmingham
1:03:30 london bradford as your house
1:03:39 but down here
1:03:40 the prophet
1:03:42 allah is
1:03:43 at that time they made medina as their
1:03:46 homes
1:03:47 and iman as their homes
1:03:49 and and then one of our teachers gave an
1:03:51 example he asked a question
1:03:53 he said
1:03:54 uh so can you imagine uh can you imagine
1:03:58 um
1:04:00 a person uh a resident without the
1:04:02 residency meaning can you imagine a
1:04:05 person living inside a home without the
1:04:07 home
1:04:08 you can't
1:04:10 you can't be because
1:04:12 if even if you imagine a home uh without
1:04:15 anybody living
1:04:16 uh then at that home after a while
1:04:19 you'll see you know it it'll get worn
1:04:21 out it'll be you know
1:04:23 it won't be a home it will be home
1:04:24 anymore yeah and then he asked the
1:04:26 question
1:04:27 uh what's the residency or where's the
1:04:30 place of for a fish for example water
1:04:33 yeah the musk gun
1:04:35 of a fish is
1:04:37 is water
1:04:38 now if anybody wants to enter the water
1:04:40 they have to imitate the fish in order
1:04:42 to survive
1:04:44 likewise whoever comes into iman they
1:04:46 have to imitate the sahaba in order to
1:04:47 survive why because the musken primary
1:04:49 muscle of the sahaba is iman
1:04:52 and this can be this this this this uh
1:04:54 tafsir
1:04:55 can be uh
1:04:57 postulated also from the quranic verse
1:04:59 that allah has made the criterion
1:05:02 of the imam of the sahaba as a choice
1:05:32 second person yes and who is it talking
1:05:34 to the primary audience recipients of
1:05:37 the quran yes
1:05:40 so the so if that's the case
1:05:42 then if they believe in what you guys
1:05:45 believe in i.e the the the second person
1:05:50 who uh or the the recipient of this end
1:05:53 user who has haba then they're on the
1:05:56 right path
1:05:58 if you're going through uh shia exegesis
1:06:00 all of these pronouns is the
1:06:03 this storm and home refers to ali and
1:06:05 albeit this martini this you have to
1:06:07 remember as well the shia will always
1:06:09 grab these verses and say it's ali no
1:06:11 problem but we're we're bringing them
1:06:13 well
1:06:15 iman
1:06:32 it's a general verse now it's
1:06:35 a general
1:06:37 phrase in arabic so it's talking about
1:06:39 all of those who's come all of those now
1:06:41 you have to
1:06:42 exclude from the general
1:06:54 they don't find any problem for these
1:06:56 people they don't have it so so this is
1:06:58 a big issue so we've mentioned two major
1:07:00 verses one is the tawbah one
1:07:02 there's a third one which we need to
1:07:04 look at
1:07:11 it's the last verse
1:07:27 manifest iman on the outside but into
1:07:29 your heart you don't believe yeah but
1:07:30 this verse testifies to what's in their
1:07:32 hearts can we translate it because allah
1:07:34 says that
1:07:34 you will see them
1:07:36 that you see him that that they're
1:07:38 they're
1:07:39 doing
1:07:40 this is the external form bowing which
1:07:42 is bowing and frustrating which is what
1:07:43 you would expect to see from unafraid
1:07:45 yeah you wouldn't be able to take
1:07:47 but says
1:07:51 which is something that's internal which
1:07:52 is that they're seeking the pledge the
1:07:54 the pleasure of allah basically yeah so
1:07:57 allah is saying that you they are not
1:07:58 saying that they've got the external but
1:08:00 they also have the internal as well and
1:08:01 this this claim of nifak is immediately
1:08:03 finished
1:08:04 will be found in the torah and indeed as
1:08:06 well so again that they they yeah
1:08:41 the ones non-equivalent among you are
1:08:43 those who
1:08:44 uh have uh fought and given charity
1:08:47 before the conquest and um
1:08:50 you know from those who've given
1:08:51 afterwards but they could say with that
1:08:53 one the conquest before that is even
1:08:55 people of medina the the
1:08:58 the albeit and so on this is not as this
1:09:00 is not the one i was looking for
1:09:02 no no because they'll say it's not
1:09:05 talking about yeah
1:09:06 yeah so there's something else in
1:09:08 that
1:09:10 so yeah
1:09:19 yeah so how would you translate this
1:09:21 uh i was pleased with those who gave the
1:09:23 pledge under this under the tree yep and
1:09:26 then what was the result and he knew
1:09:27 what was in their heart
1:09:32 who's under the tree
1:09:34 can we can we find out who's under that
1:09:36 tree because that's we'll seal the deal
1:09:38 right and just add the the the reason
1:09:40 why allah the sabbath here was
1:09:43 to negotiate when the prophet saw when
1:09:45 the companions wanted to do umrah yeah
1:09:47 and rumors were spreading that's
1:09:49 killed yeah so the privatization took a
1:09:51 pledge to fight
1:09:52 the mushrikeen to avenge uthman
1:09:55 so here again look at this
1:09:58 who was under that tree
1:10:11 giving pledge of allegiance to the
1:10:12 prophet and spiritually they uh
1:10:14 can you do you think that's a reasonable
1:10:15 argument
1:10:17 have you ever heard it because i've
1:10:18 never actually heard it no no
1:10:20 i've never heard such an argument in my
1:10:21 life
1:10:22 okay yeah so that three verse three
1:10:24 verses verse 18 of surah yeah so allah
1:10:27 speaking about the same people
1:10:29 later on in verse
1:10:31 26
1:10:37 what does lazim here mean obligatory
1:10:39 yeah obligatory so our teacher explain
1:10:41 this
1:10:42 is for example down here you can't
1:10:44 imagine the sun
1:10:47 without its light you can't imagine
1:10:48 water without its wetness you can't
1:10:49 imagine sugar honey without its
1:10:51 sweetness
1:10:52 yeah necessary necessary so allah
1:10:54 subhanahu wa is made
1:10:56 the the kalima the word of taqwa meaning
1:11:01 for the sahaba meaning like you can
1:11:02 imagine these three things without the
1:11:04 intrinsic qualities you can't imagine
1:11:05 the sun without its light sugar without
1:11:07 your sweetness water without his redness
1:11:09 in the same manner you cannot imagine
1:11:11 the sahaba without iman but then the
1:11:13 question is that allah impose this on
1:11:16 them
1:11:19 so allah immediately replies
1:11:23 they deserve they were deserving of this
1:11:25 and this is also very strong verse
1:11:29 this is why
1:11:31 i find it so
1:11:32 disturbing
1:11:34 i actually find it disturbing
1:11:36 those who oppose those verses
1:11:38 you have to do some homo musical
1:11:40 acrobatics
1:11:42 to make it seem as if the protagonists
1:11:44 are the villains
1:11:46 it's like watching sorry it's not
1:11:47 watching like
1:11:48 spiderman
1:11:50 or
1:11:51 batman
1:11:53 or whatever
1:11:54 and somehow
1:11:55 you make the joker the good guy
1:11:58 and you make you know the spider-man the
1:11:59 bad guy
1:12:01 you you cannot read the quran like this
1:12:03 unless you have
1:12:04 goggles that you're
1:12:07 staring at the quran with which which
1:12:09 which distort your image of what the
1:12:11 quran is trying to say to you
1:12:15 had a bad judgment of character
1:12:18 for 23 years of his life he had
1:12:20 companions he nurtured and he's getting
1:12:22 revelation at least
1:12:24 and
1:12:25 these are the type these are the people
1:12:26 they are legend were plotting all along
1:12:28 to destroy islam take the right of the
1:12:31 bait to uh you know destroy islam from
1:12:33 within that the insulting the prophet
1:12:35 islam with this sort of rhetoric and not
1:12:36 only that but allah has getting
1:12:38 gotten his prophet married
1:12:41 i mean they remember
1:12:42 their position is that they're
1:12:45 i mean i'm not saying theirs and all of
1:12:46 them obviously zadies and others
1:12:49 many of them will very clearly say they
1:12:51 believe they're all disbelievers
1:13:10 no but with that one they'll say it's
1:13:11 talking about zen yet
1:13:14 they're all talking about prophet
1:13:22 he revealed this and he made it explicit
1:13:24 you know like there is nothing for like
1:13:27 the other wives of the prophets no but
1:13:28 no even in those in those examples
1:13:31 allah told them
1:13:33 don't forget
1:13:35 okay so this is a good let's go back and
1:13:36 forth on this
1:13:38 number one
1:13:40 we'll say
1:13:41 is it conceivable or is it probable that
1:13:44 you can imagine that the prophet
1:13:45 muhammad sallam would marry kafirat
1:13:47 or or women that are not really
1:13:48 believers in son
1:13:50 they'll say yes of course it is because
1:13:52 as it doesn't mention
1:13:54 in chapter 66 of the quran
1:13:56 that uh the lord
1:14:08 but you can you can see
1:14:10 in both cases noah's case and lost case
1:14:14 that allah informed
1:14:16 both prophets of that deception
1:14:22 with with lord
1:14:24 you know that you will not turn back and
1:14:25 see any your wife except the they'll be
1:14:28 destroyed except for your wife
1:14:30 kenneth
1:14:32 you know
1:14:33 so this is lot's wife allah is telling
1:14:36 luth
1:14:37 that your wife is
1:14:39 yeah and the same thing with noah we
1:14:42 know that there was a whole discussion
1:14:44 with uh
1:14:45 his son
1:14:48 yeah and and either she's going to be on
1:14:50 the ship or she's not going to be on the
1:14:51 ship and if she's a catholic she's not
1:14:53 going to be on the ship so we cannot
1:14:54 assume that noah's wife was on the ship
1:14:56 so al so just like he just like lord he
1:14:59 knew allah informed him
1:15:02 that uh
1:15:04 that his wife was uh was a kafir
1:15:06 basically so if if his wife is a kafir
1:15:10 and his son was a kafir
1:15:12 he informed him of all of it why would
1:15:14 allah
1:15:15 inform
1:15:16 noah allah but he would not for muhammad
1:15:20 and not only that but he should know
1:15:21 everything
1:15:50 this is a very important thing
1:15:52 so i'm just going to give a quick
1:15:53 backdrop onto this it's important so
1:15:56 what what what they can do is this they
1:15:57 can say look okay
1:16:00 uh the sahaba so going back to the
1:16:02 definition of the sahaba or sahabi so
1:16:04 from the quran okay
1:16:07 you know we can say that the the people
1:16:09 are with the prophet sallallahu alaihi
1:16:10 wasallam they were with the prophet
1:16:12 sallallahu alaihi however they also said
1:16:15 the kalima allah illallah
1:16:17 but they did not bring iman right
1:16:20 so in the eighties there was this uh
1:16:22 there was a are you talking about
1:16:23 just before you continue just to be very
1:16:25 clear are we talking about the ayah
1:16:27 which says
1:16:29 this this yeah this and even you know uh
1:16:32 like um
1:16:35 okay like this gentleman yeah so in the
1:16:37 eighties there were the sheer clerical
1:16:38 can you translate that through before
1:16:40 because it makes sure sorry
1:16:42 we we know them yeah
1:16:44 you know them and a prophet you don't
1:16:46 know them
1:16:47 so in the 80s there was actually shia
1:16:49 cleric and this is pakistan he was he
1:16:51 said this uh on live air he also wrote a
1:16:54 book he said this that
1:16:56 in pakistan that she have been
1:16:57 transgressed and the reason they've been
1:16:58 transgressed is because when he came to
1:17:00 build
1:17:02 pakistan shias and sunni were united
1:17:05 when it came to declaring the kardiani
1:17:07 sect
1:17:09 who believe in the false prophet
1:17:13 she and suni were together
1:17:15 in declaring them prophet however now
1:17:18 the sunni i'm not going into that field
1:17:19 i'm just giving historical events the
1:17:21 sunnis are declaring a shia kafir and
1:17:23 the reason this declaring kafir is that
1:17:25 we don't believe in the sahaba the shias
1:17:27 don't believe in the sahaba yeah so this
1:17:28 shia cleric said who said we don't
1:17:30 believe in the sahaba we believe in the
1:17:32 sahaba
1:17:34 right
1:17:34 and he said uh there are there the crown
1:17:37 of our heads and the torah and the clay
1:17:40 beneath their feet were ready to make
1:17:42 that into a kohala eyeliner so you're
1:17:43 saying that everybody's like oh this
1:17:44 makes sense you know these she has a
1:17:46 good people they believe in the sahaba
1:17:47 he said look
1:17:49 but in the quran who allah has referred
1:17:51 to as believers we believe them to be
1:17:52 sahaba
1:17:54 but we don't believe the munafikun
1:17:56 to be sahaba
1:17:58 and this in the quran allah is mentioned
1:17:59 in surah baqarah first five or six
1:18:01 verses the believers then two three
1:18:03 verses the kaafir one and then
1:18:06 uh the munafi quran so this
1:18:08 categorization you cannot dispute yes
1:18:10 there are these three groups and then he
1:18:12 also mentioned the verse
1:18:21 paraphrasing the meaning of the verse
1:18:23 they come to you and they declare the
1:18:25 shahada that they believe in alliance
1:18:26 rasool but allah knows that they are
1:18:27 lying so he gives this sort of speech he
1:18:29 also wrote a book
1:18:30 uh sahabi which means the criteria of a
1:18:33 sahabah by just using quranic verses and
1:18:34 this book book was published in pakistan
1:18:38 so i will teach this book was presented
1:18:41 to him so he said i've been debating
1:18:42 shias for many years but i've never seen
1:18:44 such a deception where they've
1:18:46 used quranic verse without mentioning
1:18:48 abu bakr umar's name
1:18:50 i yet attacked them without saying you
1:18:52 know
1:18:55 just to give that response quickly and
1:18:57 this is a like maybe a definition of a
1:18:59 sahabi we can take from the quran he
1:19:01 said look at the verse
1:19:04 that the munafikun would come to you
1:19:06 yeah so he said from this verse we can
1:19:08 extract that the monafiqun would
1:19:10 visit the prophet meaning go to him and
1:19:12 come but they wouldn't constantly sit
1:19:14 with the prophet
1:19:16 they would go and come either jacqueline
1:19:18 african but they would not constantly
1:19:20 sit with the prophet those that used to
1:19:21 constantly sit with the prophet
1:19:23 mentioned
1:19:28 islam you keep yourself
1:19:30 seated with these sahaba
1:19:32 and then it says
1:19:48 oh beautiful so the monastic themselves
1:19:50 knew that they're not amongst those who
1:19:51 are with them
1:19:54 okay
1:19:56 and then he says
1:19:57 and then i told you the makkah part that
1:19:59 the concept of
1:20:00 medina yeah then he said when the munafi
1:20:03 kun realized that these close sahaba
1:20:06 especially
1:20:06 umar they're with the
1:20:09 prophet sallallahu alaihi islam they
1:20:10 wanted to cause disunity
1:20:13 they want to cross the freak so what did
1:20:15 they do they must build their masjid
1:20:16 well
1:20:22 based on hypocrisy and to cause harm and
1:20:24 to call this unity
1:20:26 as soon as they build this masjid
1:20:29 now they wanted to sanctify they wanted
1:20:31 to
1:20:32 validate this masjid so the best way to
1:20:35 do it is to call the prophet sallallahu
1:20:36 alaihi sallam
1:20:38 yes as soon as they call the prophet
1:20:43 do not even place your
1:20:59 and he prays the companions in there why
1:21:01 because of the purification tahara so
1:21:03 the verse is about taharah there's two
1:21:05 types of taharah and which are we
1:21:07 talking about here we're talking about
1:21:08 the internal because it's talking about
1:21:10 gopher in the facts we're talking about
1:21:11 iman this
1:21:27 why did the why did allah subhanahu wa
1:21:28 say the prophet sallallahu alaihi do not
1:21:30 place your for inside this hall inside
1:21:32 this room where the moon are why because
1:21:34 the munafi in spiritual their niges they
1:21:36 impure and it's not befitting for the
1:21:38 prophet sallallahu alaihi s
1:21:42 to place his for even for a second
1:21:44 inside this room because the context is
1:21:46 about
1:21:47 so he goes when allah rejected when
1:21:49 allah rejected that the prophet saw
1:21:51 allah islam places his for for even a
1:21:53 minute inside the room how is it
1:21:55 possible that he sleeps with both of
1:21:57 them in the same room
1:22:00 that was very good huh this is why we
1:22:02 brought him over guys
1:22:06 so he said so he says from the quran we
1:22:08 can understand yes
1:22:10 that those who used to constantly sit
1:22:12 with the prophet
1:22:20 he actually told me to translate when he
1:22:21 was alive it was my weakness translator
1:22:23 in the english language but now i'll see
1:22:24 you subhanallah you opened up the door
1:22:26 for you right this is the translation
1:22:50 is
1:22:58 you know i'm alive now so if you you
1:23:00 disagree with this hypothesis tell me so
1:23:02 he was very much believed in this
1:23:08 yeah it's fantastic i mean i think we've
1:23:09 all really enjoyed that i mean that's
1:23:11 that's another one
1:23:12 that's another one to write this down
1:23:13 get translated well no worry we've got
1:23:15 it recorded i mean it's fantastic that's
1:23:17 absolutely
1:23:18 brilliant just want to get there because
1:23:20 they could come back with this and as
1:23:21 always you've got to be prepared yeah of
1:23:23 course
1:23:27 after the presidency but they got it
1:23:29 which is authentic okay where imam
1:23:31 jackson said that
1:23:32 the companion of the prophet zones were
1:23:34 12 000.
1:23:35 yeah none of them were
1:23:37 none of them
1:23:38 none of them were these so they could
1:23:39 argue they were we do have narrations
1:23:41 that they were 12
1:23:43 no no they just said twelve thousand
1:23:44 they were twelve thousand did they
1:23:45 mention whether they were from the
1:23:46 throne
1:23:48 but even if you use that as an example
1:23:50 is that your hadith are inconsistent
1:23:53 right because if you're saying there was
1:23:54 only four that i believe yeah
1:23:55 where's 12 000 come from yeah exactly
1:23:57 yeah
1:23:58 and even you go to the hadith of the
1:24:00 you know or even uh kitab in christ
1:24:04 allegedly got attacked
1:24:06 no where were the 12 000 to support him
1:24:08 at that time exactly yeah when they
1:24:10 attacked his wife very good very good
1:24:12 and they have to have twelve there don't
1:24:14 they
1:24:18 yeah please
1:24:19 just one more point uh yeah uh
1:24:21 mentioned you were the first people to
1:24:22 attack the sahaba
1:24:24 the group of sahaba especially in makkah
1:24:26 so you go back
1:24:45 like the people that brought iman and
1:24:46 down here the people at that time were
1:24:48 complete
1:24:50 yeah small in number so what did they
1:24:52 say in response they said
1:25:05 but the reality is that these guys are
1:25:06 the ones foolish ones but they don't
1:25:08 know so us
1:25:09 said that the point here the principle
1:25:11 that we can understand that the many
1:25:13 other words allah could have chosen he
1:25:15 could have said these guys are misguided
1:25:17 following
1:25:18 the many other words for foolishness in
1:25:20 the arabic language
1:25:22 but allah used the same word as
1:25:30 so he said the principle is whatever you
1:25:32 say regarding the sahaba that's what
1:25:34 allah will say about you allah
1:25:36 subhanallah yes
1:25:38 and as you know and this sounds cliche
1:25:39 right now right but this this might
1:25:41 sound really like a cliche but you know
1:25:44 you know when you know that one of the
1:25:47 the rituals
1:25:48 of the shiite
1:25:50 is to whip you know you know and cut i
1:25:53 remember when i was
1:25:54 in school actually i had a friend of
1:25:56 mine
1:25:57 i was i remember
1:25:59 i remember this like yesterday i was
1:26:01 probably in year 9 or something
1:26:03 you know
1:26:09 um so i was in year nine this is his
1:26:11 brother came through he was not even
1:26:12 muslim
1:26:13 and he came to me was like um
1:26:16 bro he was like
1:26:18 what happened man
1:26:20 i saw something yeah he was like yeah he
1:26:23 says like this because they were just
1:26:25 getting knives and doing this
1:26:28 and i can remember that we're lying this
1:26:29 thing that he did over his face like
1:26:30 that
1:26:31 and this
1:26:33 because obviously you know
1:26:35 but
1:26:37 the punishment for
1:26:39 the the punishment for accusing a chaste
1:26:42 woman
1:26:43 or a chaste man but the quran says the
1:26:46 chaste woman
1:26:48 of
1:26:49 fornication
1:26:50 it's eighty lashes and a lot of them do
1:26:52 actually
1:26:53 accuse
1:26:54 you of the alarm out of that
1:26:57 which is which is uh when the mahdi
1:26:59 comes because the
1:27:01 one that's gonna come
1:27:02 the violent one that's going to come
1:27:03 he's going to take out stuff
1:27:06 yeah it's horrible yeah and it's going
1:27:08 to
1:27:08 apply this is
1:27:10 if you want the reference you know i'll
1:27:12 bring it is it is it is authentic yeah
1:27:13 yeah yeah okay and there's various
1:27:15 others
1:27:17 it just seems like an angry person it's
1:27:18 just you know one person said and i
1:27:20 don't want to mention the name he
1:27:22 mentioned that this concept it's
1:27:24 it's a poor version of gotham
1:27:27 it's like just if you go in
1:27:29 black
1:27:30 red
1:27:31 upset wailing it's a poor version of
1:27:33 goth honestly yeah
1:27:35 and so that when they're whipping
1:27:36 themselves
1:27:37 many of them
1:27:39 will be administering
1:27:41 the punishment
1:27:42 on themselves now i'm not saying all of
1:27:44 them deserve that punishment from a
1:27:45 shadow standpoint but it is ironic that
1:27:48 you're whipping yourself like that
1:27:49 because it is the punishment for someone
1:27:51 who accuses
1:27:53 the mothers of the any woman actually of
1:27:55 uh
1:27:56 uh of into of illicit intercourse
1:28:00 now this
1:28:01 the hatred stems from the battle of
1:28:03 germany
1:28:04 that's where it stems from
1:28:06 let's talk about that for a second so
1:28:07 you've got two major battles i mean
1:28:09 there's more than two but two major ones
1:28:10 that have been referred to you could say
1:28:12 20 20 years after 23 years yeah yeah
1:28:16 after that german and supreme german
1:28:18 and the core dispute between the
1:28:20 companions wasn't to do with any
1:28:22 personal issues between them it was all
1:28:23 to do with avenging the blood of the man
1:28:25 who was brutally killed um i think he
1:28:28 was besieged for 30 to 40 days in his
1:28:29 house now there was two groups among the
1:28:32 companions now ali
1:28:33 was also listen to this this is balaga
1:28:36 they believe he's divinely important
1:28:37 we're going back to imam again but it's
1:28:38 all connected when the people of italy
1:28:40 want to give him bayer he said
1:28:44 which means leave me so they wanted to
1:28:46 give him the bear by the qatar uthman
1:28:47 they want to give him the banana we want
1:28:48 you to be the leader he said leave me
1:28:50 and go to someone else so if he was
1:28:52 divinely appointed why is he saying
1:28:54 leave me and go to someone else
1:28:56 that's the number one so alitano took
1:28:58 the khilafah and many companions after
1:29:01 didn't want to stay in medina due to
1:29:02 this because it was
1:29:04 it was a atmosphere was very bad so they
1:29:06 migrated to mecca from their
1:29:09 emotions
1:29:10 were high and they wanted to invent the
1:29:12 killing of
1:29:14 that's and
1:29:15 was of that party but when they say
1:29:18 why did she leave her house i would
1:29:20 learn she went with her brother who was
1:29:22 a mahram
1:29:24 so she didn't leave the house without
1:29:25 muharram if they're going to argue that
1:29:26 point so this battle is basically they
1:29:29 try to irrelevant yeah i'm just not
1:29:31 saying but they're trying to construct
1:29:32 the battle as if
1:29:33 i had a vendetta against
1:29:36 yeah of course yeah and that's where all
1:29:38 the narrations come in with even to the
1:29:40 point in kitab suleiman
1:29:42 had the authority to divorce aisha after
1:29:45 the death of the prophet
1:29:47 to divorce so ali
1:29:49 gave the divorce on behalf of the
1:29:50 prophets
1:29:51 so yeah it gets to that i never actually
1:29:53 knew that they believed that yeah
1:29:55 videos coming soon oh all right okay you
1:29:57 made a video recently about uh
1:30:00 about um
1:30:02 the the the the sons the sons of uh ali
1:30:05 being named
1:30:07 yeah and that's authentic
1:30:11 it's like if you really had a vendetta
1:30:13 against him it's like i have event
1:30:15 that's against donald trump and george
1:30:16 bush i'm gonna call my two sons george
1:30:19 and donald trump
1:30:22 you know what's what's that
1:30:23 like
1:30:24 was a famous name
1:30:27 which means which is like a um
1:30:30 what would it be maybe yeah a nickname
1:30:31 or named after like you know endearment
1:30:34 or something yeah so why is he naming
1:30:36 his son abu bakr and
1:30:37 the look of the look at the beauty abu
1:30:39 bakr and who also mattered
1:30:42 so you would name so ali named his sons
1:30:45 after
1:30:46 the two men who supposedly usurped his
1:30:48 rights according to their books and to
1:30:49 add
1:30:50 you know fuel to the fire yeah i'm not
1:30:52 which is what you do all the time isn't
1:30:53 it yeah
1:30:55 soon to uh um
1:30:57 married the daughter of ali
1:30:59 and is that authentic
1:31:14 one was named zaid even
1:31:17 so there's one number two they got a
1:31:20 narration which said that jin
1:31:21 impersonated um
1:31:24 yes
1:31:25 i'm just saying that this is the extent
1:31:26 they go to so it's very very
1:31:28 yeah
1:31:32 on this point actually because this is
1:31:34 damning really damning evidence the two
1:31:36 people that supposedly usurped your
1:31:38 rights
1:31:39 you're naming your sons after them okay
1:31:42 with a kunia being one of them
1:31:44 and you're marrying your daughter to one
1:31:46 of them
1:31:48 and then you have this incident of fedex
1:31:51 which is one of the misconceptions
1:32:01 that that was a vagina and a private
1:32:03 part that was used from us
1:32:27 so he said apparently he said that so
1:32:28 the the infallible imam said that that
1:32:30 vagina was used from us
1:32:35 even that even that one this is just
1:32:37 this is the vendetta this is the
1:32:38 animosity right right and this is
1:32:40 authentic have you seen it authentically
1:32:42 they know we as well they've got a
1:32:43 narration where when um
1:32:46 took um from his house and took her back
1:32:49 oh my god and then another one where um
1:32:57 i'm reading this yes and i'm collating
1:33:00 all this information thinking honestly
1:33:01 do you really believe this it's comical
1:33:03 it's comically absurd absurd yeah i i
1:33:06 agree 100 okay now
1:33:08 let's move to another point before we
1:33:10 get to further casually
1:33:12 let's talk about
1:33:14 the situation with hassan
1:33:16 now the quran says
1:33:20 whoever does not rule by what allah has
1:33:22 revealed in the disbelievers
1:33:24 is it conceivable
1:33:26 that al-hasan would give up his
1:33:29 his political authority
1:33:32 to a disbeliever
1:33:34 to a man who's not even a muslim that
1:33:35 he'd have to now lead the prayers of
1:33:39 muslim people he would have to lead them
1:33:41 in jihad he'd be marrying the women
1:33:44 getting people married together all the
1:33:46 things that have that require islam is
1:33:48 it conceivable that al hassan
1:33:51 would actually give his authority up to
1:33:53 such a man no
1:33:55 it's not tell us a little bit about that
1:33:58 because obviously they believe
1:33:59 in
1:34:00 infantable mm so why would he do
1:34:02 something as degrading as that i guess
1:34:04 in the eyes yeah not only is it
1:34:05 degrading but is it even it's not
1:34:06 possible according to the ayah as well
1:34:08 dimension yeah and is it even allowed no
1:34:12 ok
1:34:16 like
1:34:17 allah has told you you're an imam and
1:34:18 then you decide that you know what
1:34:20 you're not saying about your imam that
1:34:21 he decided basically i don't want to be
1:34:23 that anymore because we know for example
1:34:25 from the story of you of you
1:34:27 like you know what happened with the
1:34:29 whale and all that and all this stuff
1:34:30 but for them obviously imam is more
1:34:32 significant than being a messenger
1:34:35 so it's like
1:34:37 from from from that perspective if he's
1:34:39 now decided to give that up not only
1:34:41 that but from their perspective allah to
1:34:43 give up to a disbeliever
1:34:46 yeah it's
1:34:47 unbelievable do you know you know i was
1:34:48 thinking about this because i was
1:34:50 getting like ptsd i was wondering like
1:34:51 where i've started to feel like this you
1:34:53 know just playing with the verses all
1:34:54 this stuff like sometimes i've had
1:34:56 discussions with certain evangelical
1:34:58 preachers from the christian community
1:34:59 i'm trying to disparage them in like
1:35:01 what
1:35:02 like and it's a similar thing
1:35:03 you know it's like things are so clear
1:35:05 and you're running around and you you're
1:35:06 getting caught out ever
1:35:08 it's a very difficult thing to believe
1:35:10 if you believe in the quran
1:35:11 that's basically how i was
1:35:13 it is
1:35:14 shia ism understood in this way and we
1:35:17 have to we have to stress here if you
1:35:19 bring a shiite lay person they will
1:35:21 disavow this stuff
1:35:22 they will disavow this stuff i've lived
1:35:25 in
1:35:26 in central london where there's a huge
1:35:28 shia community
1:35:30 i've known many shy people when you tell
1:35:32 them this is what's in your books they
1:35:33 they say this is not something i believe
1:35:35 in and that's why we should be careful
1:35:37 not to make tech fear of these people i
1:35:39 have a video
1:35:41 yeah we should not we should not
1:35:42 excommunicate these people we should not
1:35:44 you know
1:35:45 disrespect them because especially that
1:35:47 like we need to be careful because
1:35:50 these are all things which are in books
1:35:52 some of which i haven't read before you
1:35:54 haven't read before and certainly they
1:35:56 have not read it before so which means
1:35:57 now if we if we apply this stuff on the
1:35:59 ground we need to be careful not to
1:36:01 think that they believe in this stuff
1:36:02 because they don't know about that they
1:36:04 probably don't even know about it okay
1:36:05 and my in our interactions with the
1:36:07 sharing speakers corner when you do
1:36:08 present these elements yeah they'll deny
1:36:10 it 95 of them said i've never heard of
1:36:13 it exactly so if they haven't heard of
1:36:14 it then you can't pre you know you can't
1:36:17 force the narrative that they believe in
1:36:18 it or they're trying to they'll they'll
1:36:20 take a label and don't don't think that
1:36:22 that label means that they they've read
1:36:24 all these books that you've read and
1:36:25 this is very important because there is
1:36:27 a problem to just blanketly you know
1:36:30 cancel these people and because how are
1:36:32 you going to bring them into
1:36:34 what we believe and this goes back to
1:36:36 like the way that you give tawa just
1:36:38 explain that these are things which are
1:36:40 contrary to the quran and they can leave
1:36:42 them with the decision to make
1:36:44 but the the lay people we have to have a
1:36:46 level of mercy with them we actually do
1:36:49 because wallahi in my interactions
1:36:51 especially after i've done a lot of my
1:36:52 debates and stuff with shiite people
1:36:55 you you've really got to
1:36:57 once they know a lot of them will leave
1:37:00 and they will become
1:37:02 i'm not going to say become sunni but
1:37:04 they'll become people because what is
1:37:06 this word sunni what is it what does it
1:37:07 mean
1:37:12 you know the sunnah of the prophet which
1:37:14 is what allah says in the quran
1:37:30 we're just saying follow the prophet
1:37:32 that's it that's literally what sunnah
1:37:34 means sunnah means to follow the prophet
1:37:36 and not just prophet muhammad prophet
1:37:37 all the prophets jesus the son of jesus
1:37:40 the son of abraham that's basically all
1:37:42 we're saying and what we're saying is
1:37:44 that in terms of creedal matters and the
1:37:46 best people are those who the quran
1:37:48 mentioned that's the companions
1:37:50 uh allah has already uh praised them and
1:37:53 so on these are the best it doesn't mean
1:37:55 they had all the answers in the world
1:37:57 about every little thing of course not
1:37:59 as well
1:38:01 we don't claim they're infallible that's
1:38:02 the report we need to add yeah what they
1:38:05 they portray that we treat the
1:38:06 companions like prophets and we don't of
1:38:08 course not and we don't consider them
1:38:09 infallible we're just people there with
1:38:11 the prophet we don't disrespect them as
1:38:12 simple as that our religion our religion
1:38:15 is a religion of inclusion they're they
1:38:17 are telling us to exclude that's this
1:38:19 there's a difference here they're
1:38:20 telling we're saying
1:38:22 look this these are who the prophet
1:38:24 basically was with these are his friends
1:38:27 these are his companions these are his
1:38:29 wives we respect them just like he
1:38:31 respected we do
1:38:33 we have the same attitude with the
1:38:34 companions that the prophet had
1:38:37 they're saying no
1:38:38 they're saying let's have a different
1:38:40 attitude than the prophet had just bear
1:38:42 that in mind
1:38:43 which or you can decide to follow the
1:38:45 prophet in his attitude with the
1:38:46 companions and the wives of the prophet
1:38:48 or you can decide to follow the shia
1:38:52 and it is a matter of that
1:38:54 and it's really interesting you know
1:38:55 this a in the quran it says
1:39:10 you know it's not like you know had them
1:39:12 in shiitey
1:39:14 you know the word shia is like imam i'm
1:39:16 not saying it means it's always negative
1:39:18 but it does come in this form which is
1:39:20 the ones who have separated their
1:39:21 religion and becomes shia you have
1:39:23 nothing to do with them of muhammad it's
1:39:26 very unusual that they'll take this word
1:39:27 and make it you know the name of the
1:39:30 sect
1:39:31 when the quran says don't you have
1:39:32 nothing to do with this shia but the
1:39:34 point is is that we are just saying that
1:39:35 and there is a similarity between the
1:39:37 hawaii and the shia
1:39:39 because both of them may take fear
1:39:41 the khawarij
1:39:43 they make the fear of people actually
1:39:45 funnily enough both of them fear of the
1:39:47 sahaba as well the companions
1:39:50 we're just saying these are two
1:39:53 early permutations one of them kind of
1:39:55 survived and one of them didn't as much
1:39:57 which is
1:39:58 as much as the shia
1:40:00 which really goes against the quran so
1:40:02 now now let's move on to the third point
1:40:06 yes of course
1:40:10 so the thing is
1:40:13 alhamdulillah we've been concentrating
1:40:14 on the quran the quran is very
1:40:15 clear and vividly
1:40:17 mashallah demonstrates the the the quran
1:40:20 and the status of the sahaba yes but
1:40:22 when people you know they read these
1:40:23 historical narratives
1:40:25 uh where the
1:40:27 you know the uh the fighting between the
1:40:29 sahabah and all these things so how
1:40:31 should our approach be regarding this
1:40:33 beautiful so a person came to our
1:40:35 teacher
1:40:36 and he said i have objection on satan
1:40:41 he said how many objections do you have
1:40:43 he said ten he said well he's still a
1:40:45 sahabi
1:40:46 he's still here
1:40:48 why because companionship is something
1:40:51 that's wahabi not gaspi meaning is god
1:40:54 gifted
1:40:55 not a person acquires sahaba you can be
1:40:57 you can try all your life you can never
1:40:59 become equivalent to a sahabi like allah
1:41:01 subhanahu wa
1:41:18 so the point here is
1:41:20 what's the attitude of the quran
1:41:22 how does the quran deal with the actions
1:41:25 of the sahaba even though like we said
1:41:27 we don't believe the infallible
1:41:28 but what do the quran do the quran does
1:41:30 not expose them the quran doesn't
1:41:32 discuss them so for example our teacher
1:41:34 said this it's in uh
1:41:36 sahabah made mistake when prophecy allah
1:41:38 told him to stay and a certain area and
1:41:40 then those some of them moved away and
1:41:42 then at that time been worried that they
1:41:44 allah he
1:41:45 islam so he came and he attacked
1:41:47 so that was a big setback for the
1:41:49 muslims uh many uh sahaba shaheed say uh
1:41:53 the prophet saw allah islam was injured
1:41:56 but what did the quran do when allah
1:41:58 addressed
1:42:09 and not just forgive them but you seek
1:42:12 on their behalf when anybody makes a
1:42:14 mistake if i make a mistake against you
1:42:17 then i ask forgiveness
1:42:19 yes from you
1:42:21 the sahaba made the mistake but the
1:42:22 prophet said allah islam has been told
1:42:24 you do istighfar on their behalf that's
1:42:26 how believers
1:42:27 and because of this mistake
1:42:30 don't stop doing mushroom consultation
1:42:32 with them wash
1:42:34 another one more incident the three
1:42:36 sahaba who who who didn't go for the
1:42:39 battle
1:42:43 did not speak to them for 50 days or so
1:42:45 yes
1:42:46 when the announcement of the tawbah came
1:42:51 but where is this
1:43:01 and then those three sahabah who did not
1:43:03 join jihad yeah but the muhajir and saw
1:43:06 did not go they didn't do anything wrong
1:43:08 it
1:43:23 to that battle by the way they run they
1:43:24 run around but
1:43:27 nobody is and nobody is asserting or
1:43:29 postulating
1:43:30 mistakes the notion that they're the
1:43:32 infallible no what we're saying is that
1:43:34 we they are uh the
1:43:37 usual for us their own model for us
1:43:39 their iman is a criterion for us to
1:43:41 follow these all from the quranic verses
1:43:42 and yes they made mistakes of course
1:43:44 they were humans however we don't
1:43:46 discuss them and we don't we need to
1:43:47 basically yeah we need to sort ourselves
1:43:49 out basically
1:43:52 and they'll get an air like from
1:43:53 al-imran
1:43:56 and they'll think it's in their favor
1:43:58 but this is with this they are to uh to
1:44:00 disbelieve closer to them on that day
1:44:02 than iman
1:44:03 this actu this area is against them
1:44:06 because it's it's doing takrido it's
1:44:08 constraining it saying on that day
1:44:16 but even if we say it's talking about
1:44:18 even if we say it would indicate that
1:44:20 it's not the general state of affairs
1:44:23 because it's on that day yoma isn't
1:44:25 iman
1:44:27 it's not every single
1:44:29 this is on that day we're meaning
1:44:31 other than that
1:44:34 it's not like that
1:44:36 because there was a test for them
1:44:39 in the other area and the other surah
1:44:41 this was
1:44:42 anyway
1:44:43 let's move on to the third and final
1:44:44 thing but before that actually i want to
1:44:45 mention fedex because it's something
1:44:47 that they bring up quite often
1:44:48 fedex is an incident where fatima
1:44:52 she was
1:44:53 um
1:44:56 had a different understanding of abu
1:44:58 bakr
1:44:59 on the inheritance of the prophet
1:45:00 muhammad
1:45:03 he said that he doesn't leave behind
1:45:05 inheritance and that's how abu bakr
1:45:06 understood it so there was this plot of
1:45:08 land is called fedex which uh fatima
1:45:12 wanted to be inherited and abu wakar
1:45:14 said since the prophet said there's no
1:45:15 inheritance i'm not going to deviate
1:45:17 from that
1:45:19 now they'll say look this shows tension
1:45:22 between fatima and abu bakr because
1:45:24 there is a hadith in the sahaja
1:45:25 collection that says that fatima that
1:45:28 she was she withdrew from until her
1:45:30 death because
1:45:33 she died six months after prophet
1:45:35 muhammed
1:45:36 yes
1:45:38 75 days
1:45:39 oh is it okay interesting yeah so
1:45:41 according to our narrations is six
1:45:43 months right
1:45:44 so
1:45:45 let me open it to the floor anybody
1:45:47 who's this is one of the misconceptions
1:45:48 as well anyone who knows how to answer
1:45:50 this
1:45:52 what's the problem
1:45:55 no they'll say that look this is in this
1:45:57 is evidence
1:45:58 of us uh usurping or abroad is usurping
1:46:02 uh the rights of fatima in this case
1:46:05 it's the right of
1:46:11 are not allowed land have a brand
1:46:14 so in their book
1:46:16 womans are not allowed to have
1:46:17 properties in islam
1:46:19 in their books
1:46:20 oh that's interesting
1:46:23 he says in their books women are not
1:46:24 allowed to have property have you come
1:46:25 across something like that
1:46:27 maybe true we have to double check the
1:46:28 difficulty of that's very interesting
1:46:30 but you can put that in the group and we
1:46:32 can check that together
1:46:33 that's interesting right we've got a
1:46:35 library yes that's interesting yeah
1:46:37 um just add your photo as well
1:46:39 the whole narrative and i've done a
1:46:40 video on it called the lady of heaven
1:46:42 countering the movie that came out
1:46:43 recently
1:46:46 she passed away father was still under
1:46:48 the trust of the khilafah when um
1:46:54 she was angry with abu bakr for six
1:46:55 months before she passed away over
1:46:57 before she passed away but um
1:46:59 who entrusted ali
1:47:03 when allah became the khalifa he didn't
1:47:05 take it back when hassan was a khalifa
1:47:07 for six months he didn't take it back
1:47:09 so if they if it was correct that it was
1:47:13 belonging to the alibaba
1:47:14 why didn't they take it back
1:47:16 good point i want to add something to
1:47:18 this actually this is a narration in our
1:47:20 own books um which
1:47:22 also
1:47:24 second let me just get it for you it
1:47:25 will add to this
1:47:27 to this point
1:47:31 this is a narration
1:47:32 about
1:47:34 fedex
1:47:38 what i'll do as well is the the person
1:47:40 for 75 days brother
1:47:42 you have to remember the chronology of
1:47:43 events at the shia allege what happened
1:47:45 to fatima and that you have to further
1:47:48 is connected to the broken rib as well
1:47:51 and then what happened after i went
1:47:52 father and had stood up delivered a
1:47:55 45-minute speech whilst having a broken
1:47:57 rib and losing a six-month-old child all
1:47:59 right i got it here sorry so we'll
1:48:00 discuss that later this isn't muslim i'm
1:48:03 just going to get to the point where it
1:48:04 makes sense um whether with a
1:48:08 where where the
1:48:09 head or the the main point is
1:48:12 i might have to actually read the thing
1:48:14 by the way this is a hadith muslim
1:48:20 so basically
1:48:23 who said
1:48:24 that
1:49:12 uh
1:49:26 withdrew from him fatima with juventus
1:49:34 she didn't speak to him until
1:49:36 she died
1:49:41 and she died she died after his death
1:49:44 the prophet saws that's six months
1:49:58 uh
1:50:00 didn't allow her to um
1:50:03 to be uh
1:50:04 to so let me just guess right
1:50:07 definitely
1:50:28 [Music]
1:50:32 when she died he didn't he didn't want
1:50:34 to see people basically you know
1:50:36 for
1:51:15 because he knows that ali just you know
1:51:17 he's just lost his wife don't go there
1:51:19 by himself
1:51:28 he said i'm no i'm definitely
1:51:30 i'm going to
1:51:32 oh by god i am going to go to them
1:51:35 so he went into the
1:51:37 residence
1:52:01 we know your virtues and what allah has
1:52:02 given you that's the first thing he said
1:52:04 so they want to take some parts of the
1:52:06 hadith and leave other parts this is
1:52:08 this already
1:52:09 nullifies their
1:52:12 their narrative
1:52:29 on that the good that allah has given
1:52:30 you
1:52:31 this is highly saying that that too
1:52:37 is
1:53:25 and it continues basically he's
1:53:27 explaining himself in this and saying
1:53:30 he's saying that i have the reason why i
1:53:33 didn't give her the inheritance is
1:53:34 because the prophet didn't do it
1:53:36 ali understood his point of view and he
1:53:38 said that tomorrow i will come to give
1:53:40 you addison
1:53:41 and muslim
1:53:44 i would prefer your family to be close
1:53:47 yes yes yes
1:53:49 so this if they want to take the because
1:53:51 they will use our hadith but the point
1:53:53 is if you want to use a hadith
1:53:55 use the whole hadith
1:53:57 because the whole hadith doesn't show
1:53:58 the narrative that they want to point
1:53:59 out
1:54:00 and it shows you that we're not hiding
1:54:02 anything because it does say in our
1:54:03 hadith that fatima was upset with abu
1:54:06 bakr and had the sunni hadith been
1:54:10 manipulated then this would have been
1:54:12 removed
1:54:13 because this we have something to hide
1:54:15 here right
1:54:17 is one contention the main issue with
1:54:20 with after the death of the prophet
1:54:22 islam is the
1:54:23 attack or the alleged attack on fatima
1:54:25 of the land by omar by um
1:54:28 connected to that so what they allege
1:54:30 and again this is
1:54:33 they've made a movie about it for those
1:54:34 who know uh i'm not sure about that yeah
1:54:37 yeah production yeah yeah
1:54:41 so what they have a legend this is very
1:54:42 very you know uh they they have
1:54:45 possessions about it that when abu bakr
1:54:47 allah was given the pledge of allega
1:54:51 rightfully and this is according to our
1:54:52 traditions why he didn't give bayer and
1:54:53 many other companies didn't give as well
1:54:55 and he believed he had a right in the
1:54:56 ma'am so according to the shia narrative
1:54:58 is uh
1:54:59 when ali did not give up they surrounded
1:55:01 his house
1:55:02 they surrendered his eyes and they were
1:55:04 shouting come out and give bay up
1:55:06 did not come out and the shouting
1:55:08 continued there was commotion
1:55:11 who went to the
1:55:13 house
1:55:14 kicked the door
1:55:15 strangely faster mother ana was behind
1:55:17 that door whether there was doors at
1:55:18 that time that's another debate all
1:55:20 together kicked the door as he kicked
1:55:22 the door faster and was behind it she
1:55:24 was six months pregnant with an unborn
1:55:26 child called mohsin
1:55:28 so um
1:55:30 he beat her he whipped up with the end
1:55:32 of his sword and i didn't know he was
1:55:33 standing there thank you exactly you
1:55:35 know the one that knows everything can
1:55:36 hear everything why didn't you go to the
1:55:38 door himself you know if that made any
1:55:39 sense so think about the picture this so
1:55:41 that would mean that he's abusing his
1:55:43 wife yeah he knew ali ali
1:55:48 yeah so to summarize it he beat her
1:55:50 badly
1:55:51 they took ali ana out the house
1:55:54 like a camel according to najib but what
1:55:56 ali is not writing to muawiyah and
1:55:58 saying you are saying i was dragged out
1:56:00 like a camel
1:56:01 in the end
1:56:02 i've got a hadith
1:56:08 um sorry ham satan was
1:56:12 75 days
1:56:13 so father murder anha has been severely
1:56:15 beaten lost a six-month-old child
1:56:17 six-month-old child had a broken rib in
1:56:19 the process according to this hadith
1:56:21 here
1:56:22 she went to the graveyard of the
1:56:24 shohadab
1:56:27 three times a week
1:56:28 three times a week so imagine if you've
1:56:30 got a broken rib you've lost your six
1:56:31 month old child how can you visit ahad
1:56:33 which is according to google maps if you
1:56:35 walk from mushroom nebulae it's one hour
1:56:37 and 15 minutes
1:56:39 so this narrative doesn't make sense
1:56:41 from the get-go talking about fatherhood
1:56:43 when father diana lost your unborn child
1:56:45 six months old
1:56:47 would you not claim casaus for that
1:56:49 unborn child which is kazakhstan's which
1:56:51 is retribution six small child obviously
1:56:53 in in islam is 120 days when the fetus
1:56:56 is blown
1:56:57 you got to give it a funeral prayer
1:56:58 don't you it's a six-month-old child for
1:57:00 martians there should be blood money
1:57:01 praise blood money casaus retribution
1:57:03 father of stood up this is called
1:57:07 valuable for the kids
1:57:13 went through the pages it's eight pages
1:57:15 full
1:57:17 once she uh has cleric done a
1:57:20 read from it it's 43 minutes
1:57:22 is it possible that fatherhood of the
1:57:24 anna would stand up and ask for further
1:57:26 but not asked for questions for a unborn
1:57:27 child
1:57:28 if indeed that unborn child was killed
1:57:30 by um
1:57:31 yeah it makes no sense makes no sense so
1:57:33 43 minutes you care so much about the
1:57:35 the thing but not foreign
1:57:42 so it just that the whole they don't
1:57:44 place a timeline or a narrative because
1:57:45 it doesn't make sense it's really
1:57:47 pathetic narrative and this is a it's a
1:57:49 it's a desperate attempt to malign uh
1:57:53 the characters of all the personalities
1:57:56 of ahmadab
1:57:58 unfortunately what is done is
1:58:00 aligned maligned
1:58:02 their own
1:58:03 conception of alibi nibitalib because
1:58:06 they've made him into a weak
1:58:08 character who couldn't defend his wife
1:58:11 and they've made fatima into a jesus uh
1:58:13 christian jesus figure
1:58:15 which the quran does
1:58:17 of jesus
1:58:23 instead of being crucified and so on but
1:58:24 they've made
1:58:25 fatima
1:58:26 a subject of humiliation and death and
1:58:29 human
1:58:31 and this is pathetic
1:58:33 anyway we move on to the third and final
1:58:36 segment which is the quran
1:58:38 and i have to stress in the majority of
1:58:40 shias i have met they'll say we believe
1:58:42 in the same quran that you believe in
1:58:44 we have to treat this miss ella with
1:58:46 care because
1:58:47 yes they do have and those individuals
1:58:50 who say the quran has been tampered with
1:58:52 from from the extremists from the
1:58:53 shiites we don't even consider them
1:58:55 as muslims and in fact some um some
1:58:58 people from the shia community
1:59:00 excommunicate them as well so we have to
1:59:02 be fair in saying this
1:59:04 what do we have to say about this math
1:59:06 you want to start
1:59:07 yeah sure
1:59:09 yeah like you pointed out there is one
1:59:10 camp
1:59:11 of the shias that believe that
1:59:13 there's been tariffs there's been
1:59:14 additional deletion from the quran
1:59:17 and it seems like the other minority by
1:59:19 the way yeah
1:59:21 so they basic
1:59:22 it seems for them to be an obvious issue
1:59:25 because they believe um
1:59:28 because they believe that the companions
1:59:30 who betrayed adidas and went against
1:59:32 god's commands in respecting and
1:59:34 acknowledging imam could also very
1:59:35 easily go against god's command in terms
1:59:37 of preserving the quran so they have no
1:59:39 issue with that this this one camp the
1:59:41 second camp they don't believe in that
1:59:44 in the sense that there's additional
1:59:46 deletion
1:59:47 they say this manipulation uh in terms
1:59:49 of interpretation and also in in the in
1:59:52 terms of how it the voices have been
1:59:54 ordered
1:59:57 and they believe um
1:59:59 uh
2:00:00 i can't get to that point later
2:00:03 so uh the set of beliefs that the second
2:00:05 camp have in regards to the um
2:00:07 preservation of crime that i think we
2:00:08 should take a closer look at
2:00:10 so one um
2:00:11 they say that uh among uh that aliyah
2:00:14 dilemma in fact uh compile the quran in
2:00:17 in perfect form in his perfect form and
2:00:19 he approached the uh the others at the
2:00:22 time uh with the quran and they rejected
2:00:25 it so the um
2:00:28 them basically rejected the the the
2:00:31 perfect form of the quran
2:00:33 and they had and they collected their
2:00:34 own form
2:00:36 uh
2:00:37 they also believe that the muslim the
2:00:38 way the muslims breathed and understand
2:00:39 the quran
2:00:40 is not so the perfect it's not in his
2:00:42 perfect form it is it's not in the way
2:00:43 that pleases allah
2:00:47 so this they believe that the quran
2:00:49 collected by roslando also had init
2:00:52 explanation uh an exercise is alongside
2:00:54 it
2:00:55 um
2:00:58 so and again like i mentioned earlier
2:00:59 the quran collected by the uh uh differs
2:01:02 from uh version in terms of the order of
2:01:05 the chapters and the verses so they
2:01:08 believe
2:01:09 quran was compiled in a chronological
2:01:12 form
2:01:13 uh so
2:01:14 as the verses were revealed it was
2:01:15 preserved in that manner
2:01:19 uh so and also they believe that aliyah
2:01:23 version of the quran is miraculous in in
2:01:25 the sense that it's perfect absolutely
2:01:27 perfect
2:01:29 and they also believe that the the
2:01:31 aliyah's quran will be revealed by the
2:01:33 mahdi the imam
2:01:38 actual quran
2:01:43 so
2:01:44 in a sense both of both cams
2:01:47 they do believe that the quran that we
2:01:48 have today is not the perfect quran
2:01:51 basically
2:01:52 so this obviously leads to like a form
2:01:54 of distrust towards the quran uh and
2:01:57 this actually manifests itself in the
2:01:58 real world because for example uh
2:02:00 in in the shia hausa these are reluctant
2:02:02 to teach the quran
2:02:05 and also like
2:02:07 people who for within the community who
2:02:10 focus on chronic studies are looked down
2:02:12 upon and even at times mocked
2:02:14 it almost seems like
2:02:16 they consider them to be wasting their
2:02:18 time almost
2:02:20 so yeah for from what i can see it seems
2:02:22 like
2:02:23 they
2:02:23 superimpose their narrative onto the
2:02:25 quran rather than having the other way
2:02:27 around where the quran is what creates
2:02:29 gives you your narrative so yeah for me
2:02:31 seems like they have epistemologies like
2:02:33 uh
2:02:34 the other way around
2:02:36 yeah so that's what i heard from the
2:02:38 club
2:02:40 absolutely
2:02:42 i think that was a good summary i think
2:02:44 and that's a really interesting point
2:02:45 you made at the end there with because
2:02:47 you realize that and they actually spend
2:02:49 a lot of time shia is actually very good
2:02:51 at logic
2:02:52 mantech and uh usual is actually quite
2:02:55 good they spend a lot of time on that
2:02:56 kind of thing but then at the expense of
2:02:58 or the opportunity because of the quran
2:03:00 i mean
2:03:01 when was the last time we've seen like
2:03:02 an expert
2:03:05 i mean in the quran that's you know
2:03:07 those
2:03:08 and you know the mukhra as well
2:03:10 and egypt
2:03:20 yes of course you mentioned very good
2:03:21 point in the beginning that we need to
2:03:23 be careful about um
2:03:25 saying who actually believes in the
2:03:27 quran
2:03:28 to be in its original form form and
2:03:30 those who believe that there is
2:03:32 interpolation insert in the quran
2:03:34 because a lot of the people even the
2:03:35 shias that i've encountered yeah
2:03:37 they say look we believe in the quran
2:03:38 yeah exactly the quran
2:03:40 but what so but what is interesting is
2:03:43 this
2:03:45 that this that as brother mentioned that
2:03:47 the tariff of the quran is within the
2:03:49 academic works
2:03:51 uh
2:03:52 changing the interpolation of the quran
2:03:53 yes so for example one of the arguably
2:03:56 one of the greatest scholars
2:03:58 yeah he's uh blessed uh he he was buried
2:04:02 in the blessed land of iran as they say
2:04:04 yeah and his full full book
2:04:10 so the decisive statement regarding the
2:04:12 establishing of the notion that the
2:04:13 quran has been changed
2:04:15 but the point here is look we call it
2:04:18 is really proving something yeah i know
2:04:19 it's going to be this yeah this is
2:04:21 celebrated within iran
2:04:23 the funny is we're not going to call
2:04:25 yes we can take fear of people but this
2:04:26 is such a fundamental issue yes that if
2:04:29 a person believes that the quran is
2:04:30 changed you know you don't have to be a
2:04:32 or a judaist a scholar to say
2:04:35 okay this person is a muslim a person
2:04:36 doesn't believe in the quran anybody can
2:04:37 say he's not muslim
2:04:39 so this is the part so those shias who i
2:04:43 i've encountered and they said look we
2:04:44 believe in the quran what they've
2:04:46 struggled to answer i said okay you
2:04:48 believe in the quran alhamdulillah
2:04:50 but what about this scholar
2:04:52 this this this scholar they don't
2:04:54 believe in the quran they believe the
2:04:55 quran is chained are they muslims that's
2:04:57 when they become reluctant they go look
2:04:59 we're not in that position to say the
2:05:00 kafir i mean he's saying the quran is
2:05:02 changed do you believe this to be
2:05:04 covered
2:05:05 you know they just stopped at that point
2:05:07 because one of their polemics about this
2:05:08 topic and um i again i've read through a
2:05:12 lot and this is
2:05:14 basically fundamental in their
2:05:17 um their primary sources so i'll give
2:05:20 you a hadith for example in kafi and
2:05:22 there's a full chapter by the way which
2:05:23 says bab this is absurd
2:05:29 which basically means the chapter of
2:05:31 gagging and tearing out the revelation
2:05:33 in connection to the reliar and this is
2:05:35 all kullini so there's a hadith in this
2:05:37 chapter uh which mentioned in the quran
2:05:39 that indeed the quran that came down
2:05:44 17 000 now listen
2:06:20 that is clear that this quran has been
2:06:23 distorted and has there's been stuff
2:06:25 taken out and to the point he goes this
2:06:27 is
2:06:37 was in the 19th century but you got
2:06:38 another double c who wrote the judge was
2:06:41 in that the sixth century he wrote in
2:06:43 his um
2:06:45 in the argumentation
2:06:46 he puts a passage he said to discuss
2:06:48 about the tariff quran would be very
2:06:50 lengthy be very lengthy and it suffices
2:06:53 and i'm paraphrasing
2:06:56 it suffices that the quran was altered
2:06:59 by the companions it was altered and
2:07:01 this is subhanallah and this shows you
2:07:03 the now when you can't
2:07:05 make the case from the quran
2:07:08 the next step is to try to reject it and
2:07:10 then
2:07:13 there's plenty this is the point of
2:07:14 making that
2:07:15 the average here won't know about this
2:07:17 and this is we have to declare it they
2:07:19 won't know unless and the books are not
2:07:21 translated from arabic or if persian or
2:07:22 any other that's why it's important to
2:07:24 distinguish between shias and shias
2:07:26 and the the the ones that call to it the
2:07:28 scholars and the layman yeah you have to
2:07:30 differentiate that so the the brother
2:07:32 mentioned importantly that it would be
2:07:33 with the twelfth imam my head
2:07:36 look
2:07:36 but
2:07:37 it's saying that the ali came and he
2:07:39 compiled the quran this is the hadith
2:07:42 that he compiled the quran and abu bakr
2:07:44 allah heard about it so they went to
2:07:48 god give us this quran so when they're
2:07:50 ready it says that the quran was
2:07:52 exposing them
2:07:53 so ahmad went back
2:07:55 and heard and told
2:07:57 abu bakr went on her and told her long
2:07:59 story short abubakar goes take it go
2:08:02 back and get it and we wanted to dispose
2:08:04 of it so ali basically argued with him
2:08:06 and in the end said this quran won't
2:08:08 leave me and he'll be passed on to my
2:08:10 descendants until the twelfth imam that
2:08:11 will come and he would
2:08:13 reveal it to the ummah wow and it's it's
2:08:16 interesting that this is authentic
2:08:18 authentic and it is
2:08:23 i'm bringing in this book
2:08:25 the reason why i haven't mentioned the
2:08:26 island is because
2:08:30 there is a consensus on this narration
2:08:34 that the
2:08:43 is very much
2:08:45 um fundamental in their religion and and
2:08:48 to add we don't accuse or she has a
2:08:49 belief in this of course not we just add
2:08:51 that it's in your primary sources and
2:08:52 your heads did propagate it and it's
2:08:55 very sinister and we have to call it out
2:08:56 okay great and is there anything this is
2:08:58 i think we've covered the three main
2:09:00 areas
2:09:01 so
2:09:02 now i'll leave it to the floor is there
2:09:03 anything else which are common
2:09:05 misconceptions common things
2:09:06 interrogations
2:09:08 or arguments that are made that have not
2:09:10 been covered today
2:09:12 yes i think one thing which is usually
2:09:14 mentioned is ask the prophet salallahu
2:09:16 did he not leave a successor
2:09:19 okay yeah yeah and so uh what's an easy
2:09:22 way to answer that um so yeah we would
2:09:23 obviously say that it was that he did
2:09:25 leave a successor and he'd actually let
2:09:27 the people know who it was and you know
2:09:29 it was abu bakr
2:09:36 an old lady comes to him
2:09:38 and
2:09:39 um
2:09:40 she asks you know if i do not find you
2:09:41 here you know uh
2:09:42 in the next year who should i go to and
2:09:44 he says you know go to abu bakr and then
2:09:46 on top of that
2:09:47 um
2:09:48 when the prophet sallam was ill you know
2:09:50 in his last few days he appointed abu
2:09:53 bakr to be the one to lead the salah
2:09:55 for the sahaba
2:09:57 so these are all indications that yeah
2:09:59 he is the the entrusted you know
2:10:01 successor to the prophet sallallahu
2:10:02 alaihi
2:10:04 that's in your narrations
2:10:06 and the plain of
2:10:07 on the way back from hajj the prophet
2:10:09 sallam gathered everyone
2:10:11 and held ali's hand and said
2:10:27 believer so they used that and said look
2:10:29 this is this is good that you mentioned
2:10:30 that because that is one of the key
2:10:32 things the key things that they use that
2:10:33 and we believe that this happened
2:10:35 so we've got a point of contention here
2:10:38 yeah with this
2:10:39 story
2:10:40 how would you answer that tyron so i
2:10:42 guess like we would say that both
2:10:43 happened right so what i mentioned
2:10:44 happened what you mentioned happened no
2:10:45 they would argue yours didn't happen
2:10:47 okay so because we're very arguing from
2:10:49 bukhari yeah yeah this we both agree
2:10:51 that
2:10:52 and that statement was made and um
2:10:58 how would you argue that okay um so i
2:11:01 believe that hadith there's a context
2:11:03 um and yeah the context is that there
2:11:05 were a few people around the prophet
2:11:06 salallahu
2:11:08 who
2:11:09 were you know oppressing uh ali
2:11:12 and you know saying bad things about him
2:11:14 and so for this reason the prophet
2:11:15 salallahu you know on his way back
2:11:17 um he declared to
2:11:19 um the muslims around him you know that
2:11:22 this uh you know the ali you know he is
2:11:24 your moala uh which and that word
2:11:27 mawlana like yeah it has many different
2:11:28 meanings and amongst those meanings um
2:11:31 is you know master and all these other
2:11:33 things but also it can also mean you
2:11:35 know your dear friend
2:11:36 um yeah and the reason why you know like
2:11:38 uh
2:11:39 maybe this can also make evidence
2:11:41 against them is also because the prophet
2:11:43 sallam he did this on his way back after
2:11:45 um you know he delivered the final
2:11:47 sermon right so if this um idea of you
2:11:50 know successorship of ali
2:11:52 was so
2:11:53 important why did he not mention it in
2:11:56 the final sermon when he had all of the
2:11:58 um companions um you know
2:12:01 yeah
2:12:02 all came around to listen to this sermon
2:12:05 why did he not mention it there and he
2:12:06 only mentioned that on the way back uh
2:12:08 to you know a smaller group of them
2:12:10 so
2:12:10 yeah that's good and um on the on the
2:12:13 issue of mawla
2:12:15 i mean the quran says
2:12:18 that
2:12:27 what was he saying yeah how would you
2:12:28 explain that that molar is it what
2:12:30 what's the context here that the would
2:12:31 be your
2:12:32 well i mean it's the one that's
2:12:34 harboring there's keeping them in you
2:12:36 know but it's not
2:12:37 the leader
2:12:39 that's not what it is if you go to the
2:12:41 kawamises if you go to the dictionaries
2:12:43 uh the lexicon of the arabic language
2:12:46 you go to various others it has like
2:12:49 20 30 different meanings
2:12:51 exactly and so
2:12:53 we don't need to necessarily say it
2:12:54 means friend
2:12:56 even if they go with the most stringent
2:12:58 thing that they want to go through they
2:13:00 say they say it means master
2:13:02 whoever is my master
2:13:04 then ali is that's the most severe thing
2:13:06 you can say fine no problem
2:13:09 what does that show does that include
2:13:11 does that mean now that there's 12 imams
2:13:13 all infallibles
2:13:15 that must be followed and that you know
2:13:17 that there are higher but then you've
2:13:18 got another issue as well
2:13:20 has he been now inaugurated has ali now
2:13:23 been inaugurated as a leader with the
2:13:24 prophet muhammad
2:13:26 so there are two leaders at the time so
2:13:28 because
2:13:34 so if that's if that's to be taken as
2:13:36 leader there's two leaders and the other
2:13:38 hadith says if there's two leaders kill
2:13:39 this to kill one of them
2:13:41 it leads to
2:13:43 it leads to absurdities when you say
2:13:45 that so the the point is this doesn't
2:13:48 prove anything this molar hadith does
2:13:50 prove nothing
2:13:51 er even if you want to take their
2:13:53 strongest what it means like you know
2:13:54 mole means master no problem okay fine
2:13:57 accept it how does that go to 12 imams
2:13:59 and all the things that we've just
2:14:00 talked about infallibilities and that
2:14:02 sahaba are bad people and the kuffar
2:14:05 this cannot be proven or substantiated
2:14:07 with such a hadith
2:14:08 there are various other issues as well
2:14:10 like the day of thursday there's another
2:14:12 one oh yeah uh yeah what they call it
2:14:15 or something something something yeah so
2:14:18 yeah summarize it basically the prophet
2:14:20 saws in his final stages
2:14:23 and he requested a pen uh for something
2:14:27 to be written so you won't be misled
2:14:29 after or misguided after yeah so there's
2:14:31 two camps
2:14:32 one of the camps said bring the page
2:14:33 have you guys heard of this before have
2:14:34 you heard this anyone heard this before
2:14:35 yeah
2:14:37 okay okay so bring it so two the
2:14:39 companions split into two groups one
2:14:41 group requested a pen and paper to be
2:14:43 brought because uh the brotherhood would
2:14:44 say something that he would not we won't
2:14:46 be misguided and the second came because
2:14:48 the private session was ill they said
2:14:50 leave him and ahmad was in there and
2:14:51 omar was in the other camp so you have
2:14:53 to remember they they blame ahmad but um
2:14:54 wasn't alone in this there was two camps
2:14:57 so the prophet saws there was commotion
2:14:59 and the president was leave me and he
2:15:01 requested everyone to leave so they
2:15:02 called this the day of thursday because
2:15:04 the tragedy yeah because even that bass
2:15:06 cried when he heard about it the tragedy
2:15:07 even about yeah
2:15:09 i mean but the the fact that they call
2:15:11 this the tragedy is thursday the answer
2:15:13 is
2:15:15 no this is our before this is our report
2:15:17 so the prophet saws this happened on the
2:15:19 thursday the prophet passed away on
2:15:20 monday
2:15:21 he had access
2:15:23 people around him if
2:15:25 he wanted to at least islam he had
2:15:27 friday saturday and sunday
2:15:29 to tell us what this was now we can't
2:15:32 say what it was for all we know could
2:15:33 say abu bakr as a leader
2:15:45 but no one knows see no one can say what
2:15:47 the prophet saws was going to write down
2:15:49 paul we know he could say abu bakr was a
2:15:50 leader let me i mean just just on this
2:15:53 point the one this is actually one of
2:15:55 the biggest evidences against them
2:15:58 because i i've had this conversation
2:16:00 with someone before and they say well
2:16:01 the prophet was going to write down
2:16:02 everything about basically shia creed
2:16:04 it's going to be rare yeah about 12
2:16:06 imams and all the things
2:16:09 it's a constant consistent theme right
2:16:12 the the
2:16:13 high in the quran you know the prophet
2:16:15 was going to write down all the shi'i
2:16:17 tenants and then he will stop so it
2:16:19 becomes a tragedy
2:16:20 but this is actually a huge evidence
2:16:23 against them because you know the quran
2:16:24 states
2:16:29 chapter 5 verse 3 you know today that
2:16:31 perfected your religion i completed my
2:16:32 favor upon you and so on
2:16:34 if the religion is complete whatever the
2:16:37 prophet was going to say
2:16:39 was not going to add to the religion of
2:16:41 islam
2:16:47 yeah exactly like like obviously
2:16:49 obviously not like uh for for like for
2:16:50 credo man and stuff like that right um
2:16:52 this this issue of table or something
2:16:53 which is necessary for the profits like
2:16:55 yeah you can't eat the table
2:16:58 too that they've they've given the
2:17:00 message
2:17:02 successfully conveyed the message and
2:17:04 the the necessity the quality of this is
2:17:06 that you're basically saying the prophet
2:17:08 was a failure
2:17:09 because he failed to transmit to his
2:17:11 ummah what he was supposed to transmit
2:17:13 exactly why they're reaching this is too
2:17:14 far
2:17:15 this is actually the argument and the
2:17:17 there there's a there's a jose of the
2:17:19 hadith it says that um
2:17:23 and they say look this is the quran
2:17:34 sufficient for you is the book of allah
2:17:36 therefore
2:17:38 is is is advising against taking the uh
2:17:42 information of the prophet muhammad
2:17:44 because he said that sufficient for you
2:17:46 this is actually something which is
2:17:48 is repeated quite often say look you're
2:17:50 saying what
2:17:52 like for example when we have a
2:17:53 discussion of shia i've had this before
2:17:55 and i said let's let's just stick with
2:17:56 the quran because we have different
2:17:57 ideas they say look your quran is just
2:17:59 like
2:18:00 because he says
2:18:03 it's it's beyond comical but these are
2:18:06 the kinds of things is there anything
2:18:07 else
2:18:08 before we conclude there's loads no but
2:18:11 main ones
2:18:13 this is a good one
2:18:18 okay go ahead yeah so there's
2:18:20 muslim where um
2:18:22 asked sardinia
2:18:36 was being cursed on the member in
2:18:37 damascus
2:18:38 and uh the prophet alaihis atom said
2:18:41 man
2:18:43 like whoever insults the curses ali
2:18:45 curses me
2:18:47 so how would you answer that okay great
2:18:49 how would you answer it well i'll let
2:18:50 the lands do okay let's open it up but
2:18:52 maybe this is the last one so
2:18:56 what exactly is it
2:18:58 so
2:19:00 so the battles are quite um
2:19:03 sort of it's really cool to
2:19:05 belief the the the rift between the
2:19:07 companions and the battles so
2:19:10 well let's add as well it was ali who
2:19:13 fought because alive took an army from
2:19:16 iraq
2:19:17 to
2:19:18 syria so it went the other way around
2:19:19 but at least then i had the right to
2:19:21 because we didn't give bayer but that's
2:19:22 another side note so after the bat after
2:19:25 the arbitration there was um contention
2:19:28 so adidas was the khalif but he didn't
2:19:30 rule over hashem
2:19:31 the ruler was shamed so there was
2:19:34 many
2:19:35 you know people lost their lives so
2:19:37 naturally some family members were we're
2:19:39 not denying that in the campaign they
2:19:41 were cursing
2:19:43 so
2:19:43 we are asked
2:19:46 what prevents you
2:19:49 yeah what prevents you that you don't
2:19:51 curse abu torah
2:19:53 so what they're arguing from here is uh
2:19:56 moabi was instructing
2:19:58 ali to be cursed on the member on friday
2:20:01 prayers and they use a hadith
2:20:04 that said whoever insults or curses ali
2:20:06 curses me
2:20:08 so how would you
2:20:09 respond to that
2:20:11 they all they have a they have plenty
2:20:12 like these sort of examples in general
2:20:14 they have plenty so
2:20:16 yeah open the floor how would people
2:20:18 answer that
2:20:21 yeah so i'll
2:20:22 answer this uh number one what's worse
2:20:25 and brother gave this example by the way
2:20:26 he said what's worse fighting or cursing
2:20:29 they both fought each other
2:20:31 do you know and that hadith
2:20:32 is not authentic the hadith itself is
2:20:35 not authentic but number one we would
2:20:36 just say look yes
2:20:39 it was happening did my anu instruct
2:20:41 this cursing was he the one that
2:20:43 initiated it no
2:20:44 yes it was happening because of the
2:20:46 issues because in safin many people lost
2:20:48 their lives it was a fitness between the
2:20:50 companions so some some members weren't
2:20:52 angry with ali
2:20:54 when they used to insult him on the
2:20:55 member so what we say to that is no you
2:20:57 can't prove that
2:20:59 initiated it was happening but what's
2:21:01 worse fighting or killing fighting or
2:21:02 cursing they went to war
2:21:04 people fought each other you know and
2:21:07 the hadith is not authentic so that's
2:21:08 the second answer to that
2:21:10 i would stick with that actually the the
2:21:12 fighting thing is i think a little bit
2:21:13 different yeah
2:21:15 because
2:21:17 if it's not authentic then we can
2:21:18 imagine maybe we could look at the chain
2:21:20 a little bit more
2:21:21 somehow some inside some today
2:21:24 on tick tock and i went through
2:21:38 oh
2:21:52 plenty of
2:22:01 all of these are the notorious narrators
2:22:03 that lied upon abu dhabi there you have
2:22:05 it heavily brilliant brilliant
2:22:21 was not legitimate it was not proper
2:22:24 then
2:22:26 rebellion so it's either
2:22:28 true establishment of leadership or it
2:22:30 was rebellion there's no adoption yes
2:22:33 the quran
2:22:56 before
2:22:57 and they will establish their deen which
2:23:00 allah is pleased with and also
2:23:02 there will be a peace i mean in the time
2:23:04 of um even western academics believe
2:23:07 there was so much ammon through his
2:23:08 khilafah
2:23:09 so the quran is saying that allah has
2:23:11 promised
2:23:13 for the sahaba and that has to be
2:23:15 immediately after the salah after
2:23:16 prophethood i mean it's highly
2:23:19 uh
2:23:20 inconceivable to think that for 24 years
2:23:24 or so
2:23:26 of abu bakr umar and uthman all
2:23:28 collectively there was bhagava the law
2:23:30 yes
2:23:36 you know so for like 24 years the
2:23:39 promise of allah did not
2:23:40 was not fulfilled
2:23:42 and those people who upon whom the quran
2:23:45 was i mean the witness the revelation of
2:23:46 the quran of this verse
2:23:48 they did not establish the khalafa in 24
2:23:51 years it was bhagavatam you know and
2:23:52 then he just came after him
2:23:54 he's believable it's unbelievable he's a
2:23:56 jew
2:23:57 and ali's
2:23:58 was
2:24:12 the business with the the toffee man
2:24:15 i've got a video to do what's what's
2:24:16 what
2:24:18 i've seen some things about him
2:24:20 he's hiding in the cave
2:24:22 no but you know do you know much about
2:24:24 his early life
2:24:30 [Laughter]
2:24:36 nothing to do with any apparently it
2:24:37 goes haj but then he's meant to be in
2:24:39 the dab in the cave i mean it's just
2:24:41 mythology but at this stage it's
2:24:42 mythology because if you go to the cave
2:24:45 there's no one there
2:24:47 but have you seen the size of the whole
2:24:49 indicator it's in samar yeah i've seen
2:24:51 this there's a you gotta go down the
2:24:53 salah is it huge
2:24:55 it's small it's a rat can't even come
2:24:57 out of there
2:24:58 i'm not even joking
2:25:00 you look at it and according to a
2:25:02 narration of this they face towards it
2:25:04 as well instead of the so they give
2:25:06 their back to the kaaba but if that's
2:25:08 funny if you were to know about his
2:25:11 mother how she married hasan al-askari
2:25:14 the birth
2:25:15 when he ran away his representatives
2:25:17 honestly disney pixar could make huge
2:25:19 money if they were to make a movie about
2:25:20 that i don't think so i think so i
2:25:22 wouldn't watch this i would like it
2:25:25 what do you call it a great escape nah
2:25:26 like um i've already done this i'll call
2:25:29 it like hidden
2:25:31 until further notice
2:25:32 [Laughter]
2:25:34 but yeah but just it's it's very it's so
2:25:36 ridiculous and i was going through it
2:25:38 yesterday in fact and any and i made a
2:25:40 challenge on tiktok by the way let's get
2:25:42 that out there i said
2:25:43 read
2:25:44 from kamaladeen because dean that book
2:25:46 there was written by a suduk because
2:25:49 many people forgot about the 12th imam
2:25:50 naturally so because he's been hiding
2:25:52 hasn't he you're gonna forget about him
2:25:53 finding nemo
2:25:54 and he had a dream and he saw the mehdi
2:25:57 doing tawaf i'm not even joking honestly
2:25:59 it's in there if you want to read it
2:26:00 that's right and the mehdi was doing
2:26:01 tawaf around the kaaba and he saw him
2:26:03 and he said why have you forgotten about
2:26:05 me and he said i haven't i've
2:26:07 i've dreamt about you many times i've
2:26:09 been giving speech because no you need
2:26:10 to write a decisive book about my ba
2:26:13 so with this book the book was dedicated
2:26:15 to educating the masses about the
2:26:17 twelfth imam whose name was by the way
2:26:19 muhammad ibn hasan al-askari
2:26:21 in this book in the chapter 42 is
2:26:23 talking about his birth
2:26:25 i challenged any shia to go just reading
2:26:27 just be brave enough to just read hadith
2:26:30 number one stay waiting
2:26:32 well
2:26:33 watch that video wait for it
2:26:35 um
2:26:36 did you have anything to say
2:26:38 yeah that was uh about the
2:26:41 pen and paper incident yeah go ahead
2:26:43 yeah so
2:26:44 i was i just wanted to mention that if
2:26:47 that incident was to be true
2:26:49 let's just say that
2:26:51 the prophet i like that the pen and
2:26:52 paper incident that's what we should
2:26:54 call it yeah
2:26:56 no they call it the tragedy of thursday
2:26:58 right
2:26:59 okay
2:27:00 yeah so if that were to be true the
2:27:02 prophet a requested
2:27:04 pen paper to write down
2:27:05 who's going to be the successor
2:27:07 then the
2:27:09 the incident in gadir home
2:27:12 loses all his value that's a really good
2:27:15 point that is a really really good point
2:27:17 um because
2:27:19 then
2:27:20 what was the point of
2:27:21 saying it twice yeah yeah yeah yeah
2:27:24 very good point also you know you can
2:27:26 say that
2:27:31 it was ali's duty to bring the
2:27:34 to bring the people
2:27:36 pen and paper
2:27:37 you know because he was the
2:27:39 it was
2:27:41 so he was on his duty to bring the
2:27:42 peanut pepper because he was the guest
2:27:44 so he was the household yeah so
2:27:47 it's not gonna be the guests the one
2:27:48 they're gonna they're supposed to bring
2:27:50 the young people so if he didn't bring
2:27:53 that so you can't blame a uh abu bakr or
2:27:59 something that was supposed to be done
2:28:00 by ali
2:28:01 that's a really good point as well man
2:28:03 yeah i like that i like that
2:28:05 that's it you know i mean because just
2:28:07 because alma said you know just leave
2:28:09 leave the prophet it doesn't mean that
2:28:12 well that had to be obeyed why are you
2:28:14 listening to ahmad to get the pen and
2:28:16 paper and write it down
2:28:18 authentically
2:28:21 allegedly said that i'm becoming
2:28:22 delirious yeah yeah that's right yeah
2:28:24 yeah so just add that as well because
2:28:25 that's a potential uh attack as well but
2:28:27 that's not in the narration of bukhari
2:28:29 muslim just to add interesting good
2:28:31 thanks for adding that i think we've
2:28:32 covered quite a lot here today i don't
2:28:34 know how many hours this video is
2:28:35 probably five hours or something how
2:28:37 many hours is it
2:28:46 oh wow well it has been fantastic uh
2:28:49 sharing notes with
2:28:51 our great hosts today uh great
2:28:53 participants today
2:28:55 uh and it has been very edifying for me
2:28:57 and i hope for you guys as well
2:29:00 and with that i leave you with
2:29:02 allah