Is the Quran miraculous? With Dr Mustafa Khattab (2022-03-10) #

0:00:02 hello everyone and welcome to blogging
0:00:05 theology today i am delighted to talk to
0:00:08 dr mustapha katab you are most welcome
0:00:10 sir
0:00:11 thank you my pleasure thanks for having
0:00:13 me my pleasure uh mustafa received his
0:00:16 phd in islamic studies from al-azhar
0:00:19 university's faculty of languages and
0:00:22 translation and held the position of
0:00:25 lecturer at al-azhar university for over
0:00:28 10 years he is also a member of the
0:00:31 canadian council of imams and a
0:00:33 fulbright interfaith scholar
0:00:36 perhaps he is most famous as the
0:00:39 translator of the clear quran which is
0:00:42 here and that's a beautiful cover by the
0:00:45 way it's very very nice
0:00:47 um the translation has been officially
0:00:49 approved by al-azhar and endorsed by the
0:00:52 canadian council of imams and many
0:00:55 muslim organizations and scholars
0:00:57 worldwide
0:01:00 so i would like to begin if i may by
0:01:02 asking a really fundamental question
0:01:06 why is the quran so central to the life
0:01:09 of muslims
0:01:11 well thank you uh this is a very good
0:01:13 question
0:01:14 uh we know that we as human beings who
0:01:16 are very intelligent
0:01:19 but sometimes we disagree
0:01:21 so let's say for example uh here in in
0:01:24 canada um
0:01:27 marijuana weed has been legalized in the
0:01:29 last couple of years that's it so let's
0:01:31 say if i smoke weed here in toronto
0:01:35 and i drive one hour to the south new
0:01:37 york buffalo new york is only one hour
0:01:39 away from here
0:01:41 if i cross the border and i have
0:01:43 marijuana or weed with me i'm going to
0:01:45 be arrested in buffalo even though it's
0:01:48 it's legal in canada
0:01:50 canada and the us are two democracies
0:01:53 first world
0:01:54 but they disagree on the legality of
0:01:57 marijuana and the same goes for so many
0:01:59 different things
0:02:01 mercy killing
0:02:03 so many different things
0:02:05 also at some point in history apartheid
0:02:08 was legal in south america
0:02:11 and the jim crow laws in the u.s that
0:02:15 you know black people were were not as
0:02:17 equal as white people and so on and so
0:02:20 forth and i'm talking about intelligent
0:02:22 people uh women were allowed to vote
0:02:25 only 70 years ago right so in these
0:02:28 democracies and in these
0:02:30 first world countries they still debate
0:02:33 and disagree on certain concepts how do
0:02:36 you settle this debate we need a higher
0:02:39 authority and this is how we look at the
0:02:41 quran that the quran is a higher
0:02:42 authority from god he created us
0:02:45 and he sent us our
0:02:47 manufacturer's manual the quran to teach
0:02:51 us this is what you need to do when you
0:02:53 disagree this is good for you this is
0:02:56 bad for you so the quran the way we see
0:02:58 it as muslims is like the manufacturer's
0:03:00 manual that comes with your phone or
0:03:02 with your car it tells you how to
0:03:04 function in the best way as an
0:03:06 individual as a family and as a society
0:03:10 well that's very interesting now you
0:03:12 held up your copy and i have my copy of
0:03:14 the quran
0:03:16 now i understand because you told me
0:03:18 earlier on there are about 150
0:03:20 translations of the quran in english
0:03:22 alone that have been made in the last
0:03:24 100 200 years or so so why do we need
0:03:28 yet another translation why have you
0:03:30 produced this translation when we have
0:03:32 so many translations to choose from
0:03:34 already
0:03:35 i think if we understand the nature of
0:03:37 the quran
0:03:38 we will be able to explain this issue
0:03:42 so
0:03:43 we have powers we have knowledge we can
0:03:46 talk
0:03:47 but our talk our speech
0:03:49 is nothing compared to god
0:03:52 and our ability and our knowledge is
0:03:54 nothing compared to his
0:03:56 only the quran in arabic is perfect
0:03:59 and we as human beings we have
0:04:01 limitations
0:04:02 and this is why
0:04:04 every generation has a different
0:04:07 understanding of the quran a different
0:04:09 layer of understanding and this is why
0:04:11 there are always new tafsirs or exegesis
0:04:15 in in arabic that come out all the time
0:04:18 from the time of the companions like ibn
0:04:21 abbas the who who was related to the
0:04:23 prophet
0:04:25 the rest of the companions some of them
0:04:27 they given their own interpretations the
0:04:30 following generations until this day
0:04:32 they always find gems in the quran
0:04:35 and
0:04:36 by the same extension translations or
0:04:39 tafsir or exegesis but not in arabic in
0:04:42 a different language in english or
0:04:44 french or any other language for that
0:04:47 matter
0:04:48 so when i look at the quranic
0:04:50 translations
0:04:52 everyone is gifted in a different way
0:04:54 even the the scholars of exegesis in the
0:04:58 arabic language
0:05:00 everyone had a specialization so if you
0:05:02 look at
0:05:03 he looked at the jurisprudence or the in
0:05:06 the quran
0:05:08 if you look at someone like al-khashev
0:05:10 azam is a big scholar of he was a
0:05:13 linguist he looked at the quran from a
0:05:15 linguistic point of view so everyone
0:05:18 focus on the tafsir or the understanding
0:05:20 of the quran based on their niche or
0:05:24 their expertise
0:05:26 in the same way when you you look at
0:05:28 different translations
0:05:30 some translators have been you know were
0:05:33 qualified many were not because for you
0:05:36 to translate the quran just like
0:05:38 any proficient like a doctor
0:05:40 you have to have some training you have
0:05:43 to have some expertise to be able to to
0:05:45 to practice
0:05:47 and if you look at many people who
0:05:49 translated the quran they were not
0:05:51 qualified to translate sorry to say in
0:05:53 the first place
0:05:54 because historically in the last 200 300
0:05:57 years
0:05:59 the quran was not translated
0:06:01 basically by muslims except
0:06:04 in the first half of the 20th century
0:06:06 which means
0:06:08 for about 1300 years the quran was only
0:06:11 translated by missionaries and
0:06:13 orientalists and so on and so forth
0:06:16 so muslims in the indian subcontinent
0:06:19 because you know the british came with
0:06:21 their missionaries and they had their
0:06:22 own mistranslations of the quran so the
0:06:26 the most first muslim translations were
0:06:28 reactionary they wanted to respond
0:06:31 right but the first people who started
0:06:33 to translate the quran
0:06:34 they were not particularly
0:06:37 qualified to translate because arabic is
0:06:40 not their native tongue english is not
0:06:42 their native tongue they speak hindu or
0:06:44 urdu so basically they learned both to
0:06:47 be able to translate and
0:06:49 in the process they made mistakes
0:06:52 other translators who came after muslim
0:06:54 and non-muslims you know sometimes they
0:06:56 copied older translations and this is
0:06:59 why you still see words like infidel and
0:07:02 holy war we don't have these words in
0:07:04 the arabic but they just copy outdated
0:07:07 uh translations so for someone to
0:07:09 translate the quran they have to be
0:07:11 qualified and so on and so forth and
0:07:14 every translator uh you know they look
0:07:17 at previous translations
0:07:19 they see shortcomings so they come in to
0:07:22 fill in the gap and to do something
0:07:24 better
0:07:24 just like i did with the clear quran
0:07:26 maybe someone is going to come after
0:07:28 5-10 years and say oh this is not a good
0:07:30 translations and they are going to do
0:07:32 something better
0:07:33 no translation is perfect so we have to
0:07:35 agree on this one the only thing that is
0:07:37 perfect is the arabic text and this is
0:07:40 why you will always see new attempts
0:07:43 to translate the quran making it uh
0:07:45 accessible and relatable to uh people of
0:07:48 our time so just to clarify for for
0:07:51 muslims this book here um which contains
0:07:54 your translation is not actually the
0:07:55 quran is it this is not it's a
0:07:58 translation of the quran so we use the
0:08:00 quran for the arabic text yeah the
0:08:03 english is
0:08:04 uh the humble human effort to explain
0:08:07 the divine
0:08:08 right
0:08:09 so yeah it's not the english translation
0:08:11 is not infallible it's not the inerrant
0:08:13 word of god the original arabic
0:08:16 revelation is then that's an important
0:08:17 distinction because uh often with
0:08:19 christian bibles not that they're the
0:08:21 same thing i know that people think oh
0:08:23 my my bible in english is the word of
0:08:25 god that is what god has inspired but of
0:08:27 course it's not the original language
0:08:29 not even the language necessary jesus
0:08:31 spoke even so uh this important
0:08:33 distinction i think yeah this is why
0:08:35 when missionaries for example use
0:08:37 english translations to say that the
0:08:38 quran has mistakes contradictions
0:08:41 and they refer to the english
0:08:42 translations
0:08:44 not the arabic
0:08:45 they're totally different things
0:08:47 right so the arabic has no
0:08:49 contradictions no mistakes right
0:08:52 translators make mistakes but not the
0:08:54 arabic right so they need to make the
0:08:56 distinction
0:08:58 okay now i mentioned briefly uh the
0:09:00 bible but
0:09:01 a question or a criticism of the quran
0:09:03 or an allegation made about the quran by
0:09:07 by some people
0:09:08 was
0:09:09 basically was the quran copied from the
0:09:11 bible how do you account for the
0:09:14 similarities between the quran and the
0:09:17 bible they say especially historical
0:09:19 stories such as that of joseph moses
0:09:22 and jesus so this is a really an
0:09:24 argument against the divine origin of
0:09:26 the quran by saying well it's copied
0:09:29 from the bible how can it be divine how
0:09:31 would you respond to that do you think
0:09:34 well all muslims agree that the uh the
0:09:36 all the uh
0:09:38 injil the gospel that was given to jesus
0:09:41 and the torah that was revealed to moses
0:09:43 the psalms that was given to
0:09:46 david and the scrolls of abraham all
0:09:48 these revelations they came from the
0:09:50 same source
0:09:51 however they were not preserved the same
0:09:54 way that the quran has been preserved
0:09:57 the quran has been memorized
0:09:59 cover to cover by the prophet thousands
0:10:02 of his companions millions of muslims
0:10:04 throughout history including myself
0:10:07 so i completed my memorization at the
0:10:09 age of 12. i've seen kids at the age of
0:10:11 five or six they memorized the quran in
0:10:14 arabic
0:10:15 and it's interesting to know that most
0:10:18 of the people who win international
0:10:20 quran competitions the memorization
0:10:22 competitions every year they don't even
0:10:24 speak the arabic language we're talking
0:10:26 about people from indonesia nigeria
0:10:29 other places so the quran has been
0:10:31 written down
0:10:32 from the time of the prophet uh the
0:10:35 quran has been memorized and so on and
0:10:37 so forth and the the bible has not been
0:10:40 treated the same way and this is why
0:10:42 there are always
0:10:43 editions and
0:10:45 versions you know the catholic bible has
0:10:48 you know seven extra chapters that the
0:10:49 protestant bible uh doesn't have and
0:10:52 and uh and so on and so forth uh you can
0:10:54 read about this
0:10:56 uh also when you read the stories in the
0:10:58 quran and in the bible there are some
0:11:00 similarities but when you dig deeper
0:11:02 there are major differences
0:11:05 so both the bible and the quran
0:11:08 they talk about god's nature
0:11:10 god is loving and caring uh they talk
0:11:13 about
0:11:14 the universal values the need to be kind
0:11:17 and generous and good to everyone but
0:11:19 the theology is different
0:11:21 so if you look at the new testament for
0:11:22 example you know there is the focus on
0:11:25 the divine nature of jesus and um
0:11:28 salvation and
0:11:30 jesus's crucifixion and resurrection and
0:11:33 the quran talks uh you know the opposite
0:11:36 about these things so
0:11:38 there's no trinity in the quran just one
0:11:40 jesus was not crucified and so on and so
0:11:43 forth
0:11:44 so these are some of the differences and
0:11:47 if you started the book of genesis for
0:11:50 example it puts the blame completely on
0:11:53 eve for the fall from the garden
0:11:57 and the quran gives you the opposite if
0:11:59 you go to chapter 20 it says that adam
0:12:02 made a mistake
0:12:03 so it puts the blame on adam
0:12:06 even though both of them ate but he put
0:12:08 it clearly puts the uh the blame on uh
0:12:11 on on adam
0:12:13 uh there are so many uh so many examples
0:12:16 like when you read in the quran for
0:12:17 example you will see some miracles of
0:12:20 jesus in the quran that are not in the
0:12:22 bible yeah i can give you three now uh
0:12:25 one of them the fact that jesus spoke
0:12:28 when he was only a few days old to
0:12:30 defend his the dignity of his mother
0:12:32 uh when he created birds out of clay and
0:12:34 breathed into them and they became birds
0:12:36 and they flew away and also when the
0:12:39 disciples demanded a sign when he first
0:12:42 introduced his message to them he said
0:12:44 what do you want they said we need a
0:12:46 table full of food to come down from
0:12:48 heaven these three are not there
0:12:51 there is also the story of moses and the
0:12:54 man of knowledge known as
0:12:56 who is mentioned in chapter 18. this
0:12:58 story is not in in the bible the bible
0:13:01 has some stories like isaiah and this
0:13:03 story is not in the quran
0:13:06 and so on and so forth and and also if
0:13:08 the prophet copied the quran from the
0:13:10 bible
0:13:11 how come that he didn't copy some of
0:13:13 those
0:13:14 you know
0:13:15 well-known contradictions in in the
0:13:17 bible
0:13:18 like i know a student in egypt uh you
0:13:22 know the he was
0:13:24 copying the answer sheet of the student
0:13:26 who was sitting next to him
0:13:28 he copied the correct answers and the
0:13:30 wrong answers including the guy's name
0:13:36 he didn't know but the prophet couldn't
0:13:38 read or write
0:13:39 how about the scientific
0:13:42 miracles in the quran how the baby
0:13:44 develops inside the mother of the
0:13:45 expansion of the universe everything was
0:13:47 created from water and so on and so
0:13:50 forth this information is not in the
0:13:52 bible so he couldn't have copied it from
0:13:54 there because it is not there but some
0:13:56 of these particularly missionaries will
0:13:58 say well there's the some of the stories
0:13:59 you mentioned about jesus speaking in
0:14:01 the in the womb and so on are found in
0:14:03 apocryphal gospels uh from the early
0:14:06 church so it looks as if he's got the
0:14:08 information from there so how would you
0:14:10 respond to that because they're not in
0:14:11 the bible we agree but they're found in
0:14:13 other christian uh sources
0:14:16 well there are so many other information
0:14:18 you know i i give some examples but
0:14:20 there are so many other details like the
0:14:22 scientific data and
0:14:24 uh you know the stories that are in the
0:14:25 quran that are not in the bible and vice
0:14:27 versa and some of the predictions
0:14:30 things that were going to happen in the
0:14:32 future which actually came true
0:14:34 and these things are not in the bible
0:14:36 like let's say for example the story of
0:14:38 the romans being defeated by the
0:14:40 persians and how the quran predicted
0:14:43 that the romans are going to win uh you
0:14:46 know within three to nine years this is
0:14:48 not in the bible it's not even an
0:14:50 apocrypha you know
0:14:52 so there are so many different things
0:14:53 and there are some also details in the
0:14:55 quran
0:14:57 that don't exist elsewhere like let's
0:14:59 say for example
0:15:01 uh the story of the women in sora joseph
0:15:05 yusuf uh when
0:15:07 joseph came in front of them they were
0:15:08 so shocked by his beauty they cut off
0:15:10 you know they cut their fingers
0:15:12 or the story of noah in chapter 11
0:15:15 when he called his son to be on board
0:15:17 the ark with him and he refused these
0:15:20 details are not in the bible they cannot
0:15:21 be found anywhere
0:15:23 and it's very interesting
0:15:25 every time the quran mentions a piece of
0:15:28 information or a detail
0:15:30 a historical incident that is not in the
0:15:33 bible
0:15:34 the quran says you prophet muhammad were
0:15:37 not there
0:15:38 nobody knew about this how did you know
0:15:41 about these things it's by divine
0:15:43 revelation so we agreed that both the
0:15:45 quran and the previous uh revelations
0:15:48 like the gospel and
0:15:49 and the torah they came from the divine
0:15:51 source but because the quran has been
0:15:53 preserved
0:15:54 and these previous books have been uh
0:15:57 preserved in the proper way you will
0:15:59 always find differences because the
0:16:00 quran the the bible is always being
0:16:02 edited there's always a new version all
0:16:04 the time and because of this there are
0:16:07 also uh discrepancies between the two uh
0:16:10 two books
0:16:11 okay um but the next question really is
0:16:14 is it something i i'm sure all readers
0:16:16 of the quran uh in english or arabic
0:16:18 will notice why does god when he is
0:16:20 speaking in the quran seem to alternate
0:16:23 between speaking in the third person
0:16:26 to the first person so
0:16:28 we or he and sometimes we see a change
0:16:31 from the first person i to the third
0:16:33 person
0:16:34 we or the second person you then to
0:16:37 switch to the third person so this seems
0:16:39 to be a feature of god's speech in the
0:16:41 quran why is why is this this alternate
0:16:44 alternation between persons in the in
0:16:46 the quran do you think yeah that's a
0:16:48 very good point we call it
0:16:50 in arabic in arabic uh eloquence uh
0:16:53 rhetoric we call it
0:16:56 like turning of pronouns
0:16:58 and a good example for this
0:17:01 you will find it in at the beginning of
0:17:03 chapter 17 verse 1. so it says he
0:17:07 we
0:17:08 he
0:17:09 right
0:17:09 so this is a rhetorical device that is
0:17:12 usually used in the quran so when god
0:17:15 speaks about something so powerful or
0:17:17 something that is very miraculous
0:17:20 uh or when he talks about creating and
0:17:23 providing god usually speaks in the
0:17:26 plural the plural the what we call the
0:17:28 royal we
0:17:30 just like the queen in in the uk it says
0:17:32 we the queen by the way she's your queen
0:17:35 as well in canada by the way i just
0:17:36 thought yes okay
0:17:38 technically yes i agree
0:17:40 yeah so
0:17:41 it's it's called the royal week
0:17:44 and also as a show of magnificence and
0:17:46 majesty uh especially when god talks
0:17:49 about his ability to create and bring
0:17:51 people back to life for judgment he
0:17:54 always uses way but it's very
0:17:56 interesting every single time the god
0:17:59 says we in the quran he uses i or he or
0:18:03 god right before or after to remind you
0:18:06 that he is one wow every single time wow
0:18:10 interesting i didn't know that
0:18:11 interesting
0:18:12 so what okay so we've got the majesty of
0:18:14 god the the royal we uh i get that so
0:18:17 why would he then use uh he okay is it
0:18:20 just to emphasize the the unity of god
0:18:22 or is there more a different dynamic at
0:18:25 work in god's relationship with people
0:18:27 or his creation when he uses
0:18:29 love it's a different dynamic to to show
0:18:32 magnitude in the air in the arabic
0:18:34 language so for example if i if i'm
0:18:36 talking to you paul
0:18:38 paul did me wrong
0:18:40 right so if i say you did me wrong i'm
0:18:43 gonna show you what mustafa what he is
0:18:46 gonna do to you
0:18:48 so we do this turning of pronouns in the
0:18:50 arabic language to as uh to show
0:18:52 magnitude right like this even though
0:18:55 i'm talking
0:18:56 i'm using a third person to show
0:18:58 magnitude the the massive
0:19:01 punishment that is coming your way or
0:19:03 maybe the reward as well okay like i'm
0:19:06 talking to you
0:19:07 you know
0:19:08 uh
0:19:09 he is going to make you a millionaire
0:19:12 right so this is the sense we use it in
0:19:15 the arabic language to show magnitude
0:19:17 very interesting oh that's fascinating
0:19:18 first example thank you for that now and
0:19:20 also one more thing when god talks to
0:19:23 people
0:19:24 like the people who deny him or deny his
0:19:27 ability to bring them back to life when
0:19:29 he talks to them like you
0:19:31 then sometimes he says
0:19:33 they
0:19:35 like you are so
0:19:36 insignificant i'm not going to continue
0:19:39 talking to you i'm going to talk about
0:19:40 you and the third person as if you don't
0:19:42 exist you don't matter to me yeah yeah
0:19:44 yeah so there are so many uh you know
0:19:47 rhetorical dynamics that are happening
0:19:49 in in the quran it's great because this
0:19:51 this style is not used in the english
0:19:53 language sometimes
0:19:54 the whole point is is missed yes yeah oh
0:19:57 there's a fascinating explanation
0:19:59 actually there's moving on to um a more
0:20:01 controversial um area of uh allegedly
0:20:04 controversially of the khan's teaching
0:20:05 and that's verse 434
0:20:08 now um probably the most respected or
0:20:11 one of the most respected academic
0:20:12 translations is that a professor abdel
0:20:14 haleem he's a professor here in london
0:20:16 at psoas he's one of the world's
0:20:18 greatest uh arabic translators and he's
0:20:21 his translation is published by oxford
0:20:23 university press and there it is i do
0:20:27 recommend this by the way as well i'd
0:20:28 like to ask you about a particular verse
0:20:31 which is translated quite differently in
0:20:33 your translation so i'm going to look at
0:20:35 abdel haleem's translation of this verse
0:20:38 to begin with 4 34. i'll just uh get it
0:20:42 here
0:20:46 so in this uh translation he writes
0:20:49 if you fear high-handedness from your
0:20:52 wives remind them of the teachings of
0:20:55 god
0:20:56 then ignore them in bed
0:20:59 then hit them if they obey you you have
0:21:02 no right to act against them god is most
0:21:04 high and great now the particular clause
0:21:07 i want to focus on
0:21:09 is this these three words in english
0:21:12 then hit them or strike them in other
0:21:15 translations
0:21:16 um that's abdul haleem and in your um
0:21:19 translation of the same verse i'll just
0:21:21 read it and if you sense ill conduct
0:21:24 from your women advise them first if
0:21:27 they persist do not share their beds but
0:21:30 if they still persist then discipline
0:21:33 them lightly
0:21:35 but if they change their ways do not be
0:21:37 unjust to them surely god is most high
0:21:40 most great
0:21:42 so can you talk us through the reasoning
0:21:45 behind your translation which is
0:21:47 considerably softer shall we say than uh
0:21:50 abdul haleem's translation and why they
0:21:52 are different what do you
0:21:54 what is your working your reasoning in
0:21:55 this translation that's good that's a
0:21:57 very good question and this is one of
0:21:58 the very
0:21:59 controversial
0:22:01 concepts in the quran
0:22:03 but i as a translator when i look at the
0:22:06 quran in arabic
0:22:08 of course abdul halem is a highly
0:22:10 respected translation and i used it as
0:22:12 one of my references
0:22:14 so basically
0:22:16 i asked myself
0:22:18 uh
0:22:19 is the is this the only verse that deals
0:22:22 with the family dynamics in the quran
0:22:25 did the prophet peace be upon him say
0:22:27 anything about this issue because this
0:22:29 verse we believe it was not said in a
0:22:30 vacuum there are so many other verses
0:22:33 and so many uh statements uh from the
0:22:36 prophet that deal with this issue so we
0:22:38 look at all the verses and we look at
0:22:40 the uh uh teachings from the prophet and
0:22:42 i have this in my mind when i translate
0:22:45 there are two styles when people
0:22:47 translate
0:22:48 imam al-fakher
0:22:50 razi al-fakhrazi one of the greatest
0:22:54 interpreters of the quran in arabic he
0:22:56 passed away centuries ago
0:22:58 he says
0:23:00 words in the quran they're just like
0:23:02 human beings so there is the physical
0:23:04 body and there is a spirit within god so
0:23:10 translators for example uh dr abdullah
0:23:13 when he translated he looked at the
0:23:15 physical body
0:23:16 but when i translated i looked at the
0:23:19 spirit within
0:23:20 so this is what the word uh means in
0:23:23 this case it's not about this is what it
0:23:25 means i look at the sayings of the
0:23:27 prophet he said that dignified men don't
0:23:29 beat their wives he himself
0:23:32 never hit a wife or a servant
0:23:34 uh and so on and so forth and he said
0:23:36 that men and women there are like twin
0:23:38 brothers and sisters and so on and so
0:23:40 forth uh of course when you look at the
0:23:42 historical background some of the
0:23:44 scholars say it talks about the wife
0:23:47 being condescendent or looking down upon
0:23:49 her husband mistreating him and so on
0:23:52 and so forth and some scholars actually
0:23:54 say that this verse talks about sexual
0:23:57 misconduct
0:23:58 and that this this ruling was
0:24:02 abrogated by later revelations that talk
0:24:04 about the punishment
0:24:06 for uh adultery and fornication and so
0:24:09 on and so forth so it's a big discussion
0:24:11 among the scholars but i believe based
0:24:14 on my understanding of other verses in
0:24:16 the quran and statements from the
0:24:18 prophet peace be upon him i believe the
0:24:20 discipline is the right way because when
0:24:23 you use hit or maybe yusuf ali he said
0:24:27 strike others say spank
0:24:30 these words have a bad connotation and
0:24:33 they when they read the word hit or
0:24:35 strike they wouldn't get the same
0:24:38 concept that i as an arab get when i
0:24:40 read the arabic word
0:24:42 given the fact that the prophet said so
0:24:44 many things about this concept you know
0:24:46 being with something small like a tooth
0:24:50 stick and just to show to show objection
0:24:52 or disapproval and so on and so forth
0:24:55 and it it would be much easier to just
0:24:57 give her divorce
0:24:59 than to start a fight with her because
0:25:01 technically if the husband is abusive
0:25:04 then her guardian her brothers her
0:25:07 father would come and
0:25:09 fix him up or you know deal with him
0:25:11 it's not like the wife is is on her own
0:25:14 right
0:25:15 but again the whole issue should be
0:25:17 looked at from uh in a holistic manner
0:25:20 not just taking a word out of context
0:25:22 and and saying oh it should be like this
0:25:25 so you're you're allowing the the sunnah
0:25:27 of the prophet uh which of course the
0:25:29 quran references as key to understanding
0:25:32 the quran in the first place you're
0:25:33 allowing that to interpret uh or uh
0:25:37 be the lens through which you try you
0:25:40 interpret and translate these words
0:25:42 whereas you're saying abraham is giving
0:25:44 a more literal translation a more
0:25:48 academic translation which doesn't make
0:25:50 those other references in the act of the
0:25:52 translation itself would that be a
0:25:54 fairly so yes interesting yeah the the
0:25:57 uh
0:25:58 sunnah or the hadith the statements from
0:26:00 the prophet they supplement
0:26:02 the quran and this is why when we
0:26:04 interpret different verses in the quran
0:26:05 we look at what the prophet said
0:26:08 his companions understanding of the
0:26:09 statements the historical reasons to be
0:26:12 able to choose the the right words to
0:26:14 translate
0:26:15 okay um just for uh reader's benefit um
0:26:18 abdul halim has also written this book
0:26:20 understanding the quran themes and style
0:26:23 uh there's a there's a whole section uh
0:26:26 in this book uh uh in the pages 45 or
0:26:28 something onwards which trends which
0:26:30 discuss this very issue uh in much
0:26:32 academic detail and much else besides
0:26:34 it's an amazing book actually i do uh
0:26:36 recommend it uh for further reference
0:26:38 thank you for that
0:26:40 um
0:26:41 the next question really is uh the
0:26:42 inimitability of the quran in islam the
0:26:45 inimitability of the quran is the
0:26:46 doctrine which holds that the quran has
0:26:49 a miraculous quality both in content and
0:26:53 in form that no human speech can match
0:26:57 now there is a particular verse 1788
0:27:00 which i will read from your translation
0:27:03 which says uh and you've headed it in
0:27:05 italics the quran challenge
0:27:08 say o prophet if all humans and jinn
0:27:11 were to come together to produce the
0:27:13 equivalent of this quran they could not
0:27:16 produce its equal no matter how they
0:27:19 supported each other
0:27:21 at 1788.
0:27:24 could you talk a little bit about this
0:27:26 concept and how
0:27:28 and this is really my question and how
0:27:31 english-speaking people with no
0:27:33 knowledge of arabic can appreciate this
0:27:35 claim a claim is often made in dawa in
0:27:39 britain
0:27:41 by british people obviously to other
0:27:43 british people who don't necessarily
0:27:44 speak arabic themselves
0:27:46 thank you i have to introduce my answer
0:27:49 with a story
0:27:51 please and uh it's a true story i i love
0:27:54 stories so
0:27:55 basically
0:27:57 nasa hired a man with no education or
0:28:00 training whatsoever to lead its uh space
0:28:03 missions uh even though he couldn't read
0:28:06 all right he authored a detailed manual
0:28:08 for sending astronauts to space
0:28:12 bringing them backsly and fixing the
0:28:14 most complicated
0:28:16 technical issues even knew the secrets
0:28:19 of space that he knew before him he
0:28:21 predicted future discoveries and
0:28:22 corrected mistakes in earlier manuals
0:28:25 and all space experts have been
0:28:28 challenged to write a manual similar to
0:28:30 his but they failed
0:28:32 and he has been recognized by time
0:28:34 magazine as an expert or the greatest
0:28:37 expert of all time on space technology
0:28:40 artificial intelligence and rocket
0:28:41 science and so on and so forth so paul
0:28:44 will say wait a minute this is crazy
0:28:46 doesn't make any sense this is a
0:28:48 fictional story and i agree it doesn't
0:28:50 make any sense so
0:28:53 i made up this story
0:28:55 to introduce uh the fact that the quran
0:28:59 could not have been possibly made by the
0:29:02 prophet for different reasons number one
0:29:05 he couldn't read or write
0:29:07 even if he could read or write the bible
0:29:10 was not translated during the time of
0:29:12 the prophet the first translation of the
0:29:14 new testament took place 400 years after
0:29:17 his death
0:29:18 uh the quran does not talk
0:29:21 you know say anything about some of the
0:29:23 most
0:29:24 difficult moments in the prophet's life
0:29:26 like the death of his wife khadijah or
0:29:28 the death of his son ibrahim for example
0:29:32 uh
0:29:33 if he wrote the the quran like what was
0:29:36 the last time you read a book about
0:29:39 someone like a dignitary or the queen
0:29:41 in that book they criticized themselves
0:29:44 i did this and this was not the best
0:29:46 thing to do i should not have done this
0:29:48 but in the quran the prophet is
0:29:52 criticized several times and one of them
0:29:54 is in chapter 80 in this incident with a
0:29:56 blind man and you can read chapter 80
0:29:59 the first half of the story
0:30:01 also anyone who studies the style of the
0:30:05 quran and the style of hadith the way
0:30:07 the prophet spoke his statements like
0:30:10 none of you truly believes until he
0:30:12 loves for his brother what he loves for
0:30:14 himself this style is totally different
0:30:17 from the style of the quran even though
0:30:19 they came through the prophet
0:30:21 but the quran the word and the meaning
0:30:23 came directly from allah it inspired
0:30:27 but the
0:30:28 hadith the narrations from the prophet
0:30:30 the meaning is from allah but the
0:30:31 wording is from the prophet anyone who
0:30:33 speaks arabic is not going to confuse
0:30:35 both
0:30:36 uh also
0:30:38 the prophet lived in the desert like
0:30:40 1500 years ago
0:30:42 uh no education no civilization no
0:30:44 microscopes no telescopes nothing
0:30:48 how in the world could he come up with
0:30:51 things like
0:30:52 the you know the expansion of the
0:30:53 universe which is stated clearly in the
0:30:55 quran
0:30:56 how the baby develops inside the mother
0:30:58 how the fact that everything came from
0:31:00 water and and so on and so forth
0:31:03 so basically if he had no training no
0:31:06 education nothing
0:31:07 and
0:31:09 how did he come up with these perfect
0:31:11 teachings about family laws inheritance
0:31:13 laws women's rights human rights animal
0:31:16 rights diet health business counseling
0:31:19 politics history and so on and so forth
0:31:22 how in the world could he come up with
0:31:24 something like this every single muslim
0:31:27 whether you have a phd from the
0:31:29 university of oxford or you can't read
0:31:31 or write
0:31:32 we follow the example of the prophet and
0:31:35 we follow his teachings and his
0:31:36 teachings still hold till this day
0:31:39 you know in in the 1920s during the
0:31:41 great depression in the u.s
0:31:44 the the lawmakers in the u.s they try to
0:31:48 ban alcohol
0:31:49 the sale of alcohol the consumption of
0:31:52 and they couldn't
0:31:53 you know thousands of people were thrown
0:31:55 in jail millions of dollars were paid in
0:31:57 fines they couldn't stop the consumption
0:32:00 and the sale of alcohol
0:32:02 the grave majority of muslims 1.7
0:32:05 billion people the great majority of
0:32:07 them
0:32:08 uh don't drink alcohol because of the
0:32:11 one word from this man who lived and
0:32:13 died 1500 years ago he said don't drink
0:32:16 alcohol it's not good for you
0:32:20 so this is this is something amazing so
0:32:23 when you look at all these things
0:32:24 combined
0:32:26 and the fact that he predicted future
0:32:28 things
0:32:29 and they actually came true
0:32:31 and the fact that
0:32:33 you know he corrected some of the
0:32:35 mistakes in the bible i'll just give you
0:32:37 one example
0:32:38 so basically in the story of joseph in
0:32:42 the quran the king of egypt the ruler of
0:32:45 egypt at the time of joseph is called
0:32:46 the king in the quran and he's called a
0:32:49 pharaoh in the bible and this is a clear
0:32:51 mistake if you read the jewish
0:32:53 encyclopedia it says that the rulers of
0:32:55 egypt during the time of joseph they
0:32:58 were the in from the invading jesus who
0:33:00 ruled egypt for like 200 300 years
0:33:03 and it was not from egyptian you know
0:33:06 ancient egyptian dynasties they were not
0:33:08 called pharaohs they were called kings
0:33:10 right he could not have possibly come up
0:33:13 with something like the quran and this
0:33:15 shows
0:33:16 the the miraculous nature of the quran
0:33:19 it was revealed to him it is not
0:33:20 something that he made up
0:33:22 yeah i know when
0:33:25 you read the quran in english the
0:33:27 english translation
0:33:28 it it doesn't sound miraculous
0:33:31 you know it's not in
0:33:33 a chronological order like the bible
0:33:36 uh and so on and so forth but when you
0:33:38 read it in the arabic language it is
0:33:40 something else and i always say that the
0:33:43 difference between the quran in arabic
0:33:45 and in translation is like the
0:33:47 difference between eating fresh and
0:33:49 canned food
0:33:51 completely different i like that that's
0:33:53 just i mean there are i only know a
0:33:55 couple of sur as well in arabic and
0:33:57 obviously i know they've been english as
0:33:58 well and i can certainly agree that the
0:34:00 the the arabic has the same meaning
0:34:02 perhaps as the english translations but
0:34:04 the way
0:34:05 it's expressed the beauty of language is
0:34:07 very concise and so on it is quite
0:34:09 different and it's not completely lost
0:34:11 obviously in any translation to any any
0:34:13 language it's just the way it is the
0:34:16 style is lost yeah the rhetorical
0:34:19 devices are lost the music is lost the
0:34:21 rhymes yeah uh i tried to reflect some
0:34:24 of the beauty in the english okay but of
0:34:26 course i couldn't do this with the whole
0:34:28 text but every now and then you will
0:34:30 find some rhymes
0:34:32 something you know very smooth like
0:34:34 chapter 55 verses 5 to 7 you know in
0:34:37 arabic it says
0:34:44 you can see the music and the
0:34:46 rhymes the way we did it in the english
0:34:49 the sun and the moon travel with
0:34:50 precision the stars and the trees bowed
0:34:53 down in submission as for the sky he
0:34:56 raised it high and set the balance of
0:34:58 justice so wow we tried to keep you know
0:35:01 some of the beauty in there but whatever
0:35:03 you know
0:35:04 that's just lovely yes i didn't know you
0:35:06 you tried to bring to retain some of the
0:35:08 uh the endings there i just reminded uh
0:35:11 a couple of years ago i remember
0:35:12 president jonathan brown alluded to an
0:35:14 academic study which i subsequently
0:35:16 found actually by a couple of um
0:35:18 researchers i think they may have been
0:35:20 from turkey who used uh the very
0:35:23 advanced software uh that could uh
0:35:26 read and understand the sounds of
0:35:28 languages um and that that can indicate
0:35:32 authorship
0:35:33 and they they process the quran's
0:35:35 language and they process sahih hadiths
0:35:38 uh in in this computer program this
0:35:40 software which could detect authors if
0:35:43 they're the same authors or two
0:35:44 different authors or composite authors
0:35:47 and the program showed that the author
0:35:50 of the quran and the
0:35:52 muhammad's speech are from two
0:35:55 completely different sources they're
0:35:57 from two different people so to speak um
0:36:00 that's interesting that even advanced
0:36:01 technology has confirmed that so because
0:36:03 the subtleties of expression and
0:36:06 intonation are easily portrayed in any
0:36:08 you know if i try and speak in a
0:36:09 different way there's going to be some
0:36:11 bits and pieces of me still in it you
0:36:13 know my normal speech
0:36:15 but that's not the case with the quran
0:36:17 the quran is actually not by muhammad
0:36:18 it's not authored by him
0:36:20 and likewise
0:36:22 his speech is not the same as the
0:36:23 language of the quran according to
0:36:25 academic research his computer program
0:36:27 and i thought that was that what that
0:36:29 will not surprise any muslims don't get
0:36:31 me wrong
0:36:32 but um this is kind of indirect
0:36:34 confirmation of the authorship of the
0:36:36 quran as you say not being muhammad but
0:36:38 being from another source what that
0:36:40 source is of course is up to you that
0:36:42 they're not by the same person there's a
0:36:44 different source and and that is how the
0:36:46 quran reads anyway if you read it as you
0:36:49 say it addresses muhammad it corrects
0:36:51 muhammad it dresses mankind it's not
0:36:54 about muhammad it's about whatever it's
0:36:56 about
0:36:57 yes yeah
0:36:59 yes
0:37:00 okay well the last question i was going
0:37:02 to ask is actually you've already
0:37:03 covered it a little bit but i'm asking
0:37:05 is islam
0:37:06 compatible with science um there's a
0:37:09 popular muslim belief uh that there are
0:37:12 many scientific references in the quran
0:37:15 that have become known only in the past
0:37:17 few centuries could you give us a few
0:37:20 examples of this phenomena you already
0:37:22 have perhaps you could offer a little
0:37:24 bit of a more expensive uh information
0:37:25 about those examples yes so we believe
0:37:28 that the quran is not a book of science
0:37:30 it's a book of science
0:37:32 the god is detailing you know these
0:37:35 references in the quran and we believe
0:37:38 that
0:37:39 there are two qurans there is a quran
0:37:42 that you can see and visualize it says
0:37:44 in the quran repeatedly look around you
0:37:47 look at this sign
0:37:48 and the quran uses the word ayah to
0:37:51 refer to a sign in nature like the sun
0:37:54 and the moon the galaxies and
0:37:56 you know science within yourself your
0:37:58 eye how it functions your heart and so
0:38:00 on and so forth so these are visual
0:38:02 signs
0:38:03 but it also refers to written signs
0:38:06 in in the quran the style of the quran
0:38:08 and the beauty of the quran and so on
0:38:10 and so forth
0:38:11 so there are many scientific references
0:38:14 in the quran we mentioned how the baby
0:38:15 develops inside the mother which is
0:38:18 something that has become known at least
0:38:20 in the west in the last century or two
0:38:24 the expansion of the universe how the
0:38:26 wind is used for pollination
0:38:29 internal waves in the ocean nobody knew
0:38:31 about this historically it's mentioned
0:38:33 in chapter 24
0:38:35 everything is created from water
0:38:38 it says in chapter 6 that when you go up
0:38:40 in space your chest will be so
0:38:42 constricted you can't breathe
0:38:44 and the prophet didn't go to space he
0:38:47 didn't go inside the ocean to see the
0:38:49 internal waves and and so on and so
0:38:51 forth so there are so many other you
0:38:53 know details some of them have been
0:38:55 confirmed by science
0:38:57 you know some are debatable among
0:38:59 scholars and so on and so forth so for
0:39:01 example at the end of chapter 27
0:39:04 it says that when you look at the
0:39:06 mountains you think they are firmly
0:39:08 fixed
0:39:09 but they are floating just like the
0:39:11 clouds and this is the perfect design of
0:39:13 god
0:39:14 it's a very powerful statement because
0:39:17 every time god talks about his ability
0:39:19 to bring people back to life for
0:39:21 judgment he always references some of
0:39:23 the wonders the marvels of his creation
0:39:26 in the universe and in this case
0:39:28 he talks about the alternation of day
0:39:30 and night then he talks about judgment
0:39:32 day then he goes back to talking about
0:39:34 earth's rotation how the mountains float
0:39:37 just like clouds uh in chapter 21 it
0:39:41 talks about how the earth
0:39:43 and everything else they used to be one
0:39:46 mass then they were split apart some
0:39:48 scientists say this is a reference to
0:39:50 the big bang
0:39:52 but again we don't know for sure uh you
0:39:55 know maybe in the future somebody is
0:39:57 going to have a different theory
0:39:59 the quran talks about
0:40:02 the fact that
0:40:03 you know the day and the night when they
0:40:06 rotate it says you
0:40:08 layla the word that is used to describe
0:40:10 the movement of the day and the night
0:40:12 comes from quran quran in arabic means
0:40:15 ball
0:40:16 yukawa he makes the day and night rotate
0:40:18 in the form of a ball
0:40:21 in surah nazyat close to the end of the
0:40:24 quran it talks about the earth
0:40:26 being
0:40:28 in the arabic the verb is used
0:40:31 is when the ostrich the bird
0:40:33 creates its
0:40:35 nest in the sand
0:40:37 in the form of a circle
0:40:39 so he said that he had the earth he made
0:40:41 it look like a circle and so on and so
0:40:44 forth he used the same verb that you
0:40:46 know that is used to describe the nest
0:40:48 uh of an ostrich in the sand there are
0:40:51 so many other uh references
0:40:53 uh in the quran i've just given you like
0:40:55 a flavor but if you go to the back of
0:40:57 the clear quran
0:40:59 you can find a whole list
0:41:01 uh page yeah page
0:41:05 scientific references in the quran
0:41:08 you know
0:41:09 how
0:41:10 the the word this used for to describe
0:41:13 the sun it says a source of
0:41:16 light and when it talks about the moon
0:41:18 it says the reflected light
0:41:21 the quran is very specific when it talks
0:41:23 about these things how the mountains are
0:41:26 used as pegs
0:41:28 to stabilize the earth and and so on and
0:41:30 so forth there are so many
0:41:32 so many
0:41:35 you mentioned that fingertips so the in
0:41:37 the back of this um
0:41:39 uh uh edition you you have all the
0:41:42 references wind pollination mountains as
0:41:44 pegs iron sent down pain receptors
0:41:47 the sun is a radiant source and the moon
0:41:48 has a reflected light um
0:41:51 and internal waves the preservation of
0:41:53 pharaoh's body
0:41:55 and so on so yeah that's these the
0:41:56 scientific references in the quran
0:41:59 they're very interesting well thank you
0:42:00 for that um explanation
0:42:02 um thank you as we just draw to a close
0:42:05 um what um what else have you published
0:42:08 and what else are you working on in the
0:42:10 area of the crime
0:42:11 thank you i've dedicated the last uh 10
0:42:14 years of my life to making the quran
0:42:18 accessible to people especially the
0:42:20 english-speaking world
0:42:21 so of course we have the original
0:42:24 english translation similar to one that
0:42:26 you have and it uses the word god
0:42:28 because non-muslims can relate to this
0:42:30 one
0:42:31 for muslims we have the arabic and
0:42:34 english texts together and we use the
0:42:36 word allah
0:42:38 and we broke
0:42:39 down the text and i put titles to make
0:42:42 it easy for people to understand what
0:42:44 the passage is talking about footnotes
0:42:47 historical background to make it
0:42:49 difficult really for islamophobes to to
0:42:52 take things out of context because it
0:42:54 has to be read in a context and also i
0:42:58 did a translation of the quran for kids
0:43:02 ages seven and up
0:43:03 so based on a hadith from the prophet in
0:43:06 which he divided the chapters of the
0:43:08 quran into four sections
0:43:10 so he said the first section is made up
0:43:12 of the long chapters which deal mostly
0:43:14 with rulings
0:43:16 uh from
0:43:17 chapter 2 to chapter 9
0:43:20 then from chapter 10 to chapter 28
0:43:25 which deal mostly stories right then uh
0:43:28 from chapter 29 to chapter 40 uh 49 and
0:43:31 they deal mostly with god's blessings
0:43:34 then from chapter
0:43:36 49 to the end they deal with faith and
0:43:39 the next life
0:43:41 so i divided the quran for kids based on
0:43:43 these four sections so volume one was
0:43:46 released two years ago this ramadan this
0:43:49 volume this is the first copy in canada
0:43:52 uh will be released around ramadan it
0:43:54 covers the the third volume because i'm
0:43:57 starting from the back the shorter
0:43:59 chapters that kids usually memorize and
0:44:01 study
0:44:02 and over the next couple of years insha
0:44:03 allah will with god's help we will do
0:44:06 the rest of the quran
0:44:08 and finally
0:44:10 this is very special uh it was released
0:44:12 last year
0:44:14 and basically this is for our brothers
0:44:16 and sisters who don't speak the arabic
0:44:18 language i'm talking about 85 percent of
0:44:20 muslims they don't speak or understand
0:44:22 the arabic language only 15 of muslims
0:44:25 are error
0:44:27 so basically
0:44:28 some of them complain you know we come
0:44:30 to the prayers the prayers are in arabic
0:44:32 and we don't understand most of what is
0:44:34 being recited so you know this is a true
0:44:37 situation that happened with me six
0:44:39 years ago so over the next five years
0:44:41 i've worked on this dictionary
0:44:44 it's the first picture dictionary of the
0:44:45 quran
0:44:46 covering the 2000 roots root words of
0:44:50 the quran the quran is made up of
0:44:52 2 000 roots that's it 2 000 roots
0:44:55 repeated in different forms
0:44:57 verbs nouns and particles
0:44:59 and
0:45:00 i connected the words that come from the
0:45:01 same root i use pictures and at the end
0:45:04 of the dictionary we have a poem this is
0:45:07 this is very unique this is the first
0:45:08 time this has been done
0:45:10 a poem of nine pages
0:45:13 and these nine pages have the 2000 roots
0:45:16 of the quran in a poem form the rhyme
0:45:19 right so if you're a student of the
0:45:20 quran you memorize those 249 lines of
0:45:23 poetry or the nine pages you know all
0:45:26 the rules of the quran it's it's very
0:45:28 easy so this is basically for the
0:45:31 non-arabs who want to study the quran in
0:45:33 arabic in four to six months depending
0:45:36 on your taste
0:45:37 then you should be able to understand
0:45:39 the whole quran in arabic you don't need
0:45:40 the translation anymore that's amazing
0:45:43 gosh that's amazing i'll link to that do
0:45:45 you have a website as well that people
0:45:46 can visit yeah you can go to our website
0:45:49 that clear quran.org the clearcore.org
0:45:52 and we can put it in the description and
0:45:54 i'll i'll certainly put that in in the
0:45:55 scripture that's amazing you're doing
0:45:57 extraordinary work sir um thank you very
0:45:58 much indeed and um well that's it thank
0:46:01 you very much uh dr mustafa kitab for
0:46:03 your time and your expertise and the
0:46:05 extraordinary uh work uh that you're
0:46:08 still doing on the quran making it
0:46:09 accessible to
0:46:10 uh the english-speaking world in canada
0:46:13 and britain and elsewhere so thank you
0:46:15 very much indeed thank you thanks for
0:46:17 having me thank you until next time
0:46:19 thank you