Controversial Questions and Official Retractions of Ust. Abu Taymiyyah (MH Podcast #4) (2020-06-21) ​

0:00:00 [Music]
0:00:10 episode
0:00:11 uh the mh podcast mohammed hijab
0:00:14 podcast today we're joined with none
0:00:17 other than abu taymiyah
0:00:18 or abu taymiyah someone who's been
0:00:20 spending how many years it now in
0:00:22 medina in the last four years yeah last
0:00:24 four years madina masha'allah doing
0:00:26 islamic studies
0:00:27 and he has got many duros and uh online
0:00:30 many of the
0:00:31 uh halaqat lectures online
0:00:34 and today we want to get into some
0:00:35 controversial questions as we do in this
0:00:37 very controversial podcast uh with uh
0:00:42 mia but before we do so um i wanted to
0:00:45 ask
0:00:45 uh just a general question maybe
0:00:48 starting off
0:00:49 about your experiences in medina and um
0:00:52 i mean how have you found the journey of
0:00:54 seeking knowledge
0:00:56 and what advice would you give to
0:00:57 someone generally about seeking
0:00:58 knowledge
0:01:10 is
0:01:12 um we have to understand that seeking
0:01:14 knowledge is not like
0:01:16 studying physics okay
0:01:19 or like accounting science whatever it
0:01:22 might be that we study in the
0:01:23 universities right
0:01:24 engineering these studies
0:01:28 this is your path to allah subhanahu wa
0:01:30 okay
0:01:35 from the cradle to the grave right so
0:01:37 it's not just like a profession
0:01:39 that we spend a couple of years with but
0:01:41 rather
0:01:42 it's a journey the moment you go with it
0:01:47 it's going to follow you follow you up
0:01:48 all the way up to your grave right
0:01:50 and this is why even some of the
0:01:51 scholars subhanallah before they passed
0:01:54 away
0:01:55 they would be carrying like papers of
0:01:59 the hadith
0:02:00 that they were written that they were
0:02:02 writing down
0:02:04 and uh and some of them like even on
0:02:06 their deathbed
0:02:07 a hadith would come to their minds and
0:02:09 they would want to write it down you see
0:02:11 so it's something that continues from
0:02:14 the moment
0:02:15 that you start that journey all the way
0:02:16 up to your death
0:02:18 and it requires a lot of patience it
0:02:21 really really does
0:02:22 okay i know it's a wonderful thing to be
0:02:25 known as the day
0:02:26 to be giving down to the people and it
0:02:28 comes with a lot of rewards as well
0:02:30 as the messenger sallallahu alaihi with
0:02:31 some said men died
0:02:34 canada
0:02:37 okay whoever calls the guidance for him
0:02:39 is the reward of everyone that follows
0:02:41 him up on that guidance
0:02:42 and he won't take anything away from him
0:02:44 and then look what he also said
0:02:46 women died in the
0:02:54 guidance for him is the sin of everyone
0:02:57 that followed him up on that misguidance
0:03:00 okay so it can work both ways
0:03:03 you can maybe even call it a
0:03:04 double-edged sword right so he requires
0:03:07 time it requires patience
0:03:15 we shouldn't try to be kind of like
0:03:16 hasty and wanting to be out
0:03:19 i remember also the shaykh of
0:03:22 he would say if i had the ability to
0:03:25 take the knowledge
0:03:26 and to pour it into your mouth the same
0:03:29 way
0:03:30 water and milk would be poured uh in
0:03:33 your throats
0:03:35 then i would have done that but the only
0:03:37 way you're going to attain knowledge is
0:03:39 by the scraping of the knees and the
0:03:40 scraping of
0:03:42 your toes right scraping of the knee is
0:03:44 the scraping of the toes and the
0:03:46 scraping of the elbows
0:03:47 so it takes time you know it takes a lot
0:03:50 of effort i remember when he was in
0:03:51 damage
0:03:52 the four years that i spent in yemen
0:03:54 before that it wasn't easy
0:03:57 i remember subhanallah we would only get
0:03:59 water once every two days
0:04:01 and sometimes the water wouldn't come
0:04:03 through our taps like for days on end
0:04:05 electricity would come for a couple of
0:04:07 hours every two to three days
0:04:10 and sometimes it wouldn't even happen
0:04:13 okay
0:04:14 and we would have to like go out and you
0:04:16 know take the water and
0:04:18 just so we can fill up our bucket so uh
0:04:24 mentioned you're not gonna attain
0:04:26 knowledge of just the relaxation of the
0:04:28 body it requires effort
0:04:30 it requires you know time it also
0:04:33 reminds me of something that imam shafi
0:04:34 rahim allah
0:04:41 in mentions to how much effort you put
0:04:43 in okay
0:04:45 this is how you're going to attain
0:04:54 loftiness
0:04:56 and whoever doesn't put that effort in
0:04:58 he's going to be wasting his time he's
0:05:00 going to be chasing the impossible
0:05:06 okay you want to become honored you want
0:05:10 a high position
0:05:12 why do you sleep at night and then he
0:05:14 gives the example of somebody who's
0:05:16 ready to risk his life
0:05:18 he dives into the sea to get the pearls
0:05:20 from under the sea right
0:05:22 what kind of risk would we be willing to
0:05:24 take to do something like that
0:05:26 so uh it's my yemen like
0:05:29 i remember when i first got to medina uh
0:05:33 a brother called sheikh abdul razakh who
0:05:36 i benefited from
0:05:38 in the hambury he took me into the dorms
0:05:42 and he said to me about him you're going
0:05:44 to struggle with these dorms
0:05:46 huh and i said to him we got running
0:05:49 water
0:05:51 we got running electricity we didn't
0:05:52 even have that here man
0:05:54 okay so sometimes you know going out
0:05:57 being in places like egypt mauritania
0:06:00 but yemen obviously now there's a lot of
0:06:01 issues in yemen
0:06:03 you're gonna have to put a lot of effort
0:06:04 in okay
0:06:06 and that which we come out with is
0:06:08 absolutely nothing
0:06:10 to uh what the self came out with
0:06:13 having gone through all of the
0:06:15 difficulties but anyways this is a
0:06:18 i don't want to prolong it but i've got
0:06:20 a video on my youtube channel it's
0:06:21 called he drank his urine
0:06:23 six times this was the case of some of
0:06:26 the people of the past they would drink
0:06:27 their urine because they would
0:06:29 out of what you call it uh necessity
0:06:32 because they're walking in the desert
0:06:34 they don't have no water they don't have
0:06:35 anything
0:06:39 so that's that's very subhanallah
0:06:41 motivating i think a lot of people will
0:06:42 take a lot of benefit in gems from that
0:06:45 especially those who live in you know
0:06:47 modern day
0:06:48 societies where everything is fast
0:06:50 everything is quick everything is
0:06:51 accessible
0:06:53 um and so for that that's very
0:06:55 insightful i want to move on to now is
0:06:58 perhaps on a lot of people's mind in
0:07:00 many ways
0:07:01 could be since the elephant in the room
0:07:02 which is
0:07:04 there's a lot of kind of um refutations
0:07:08 you want to call it that you're involved
0:07:10 in or that you are associated with
0:07:12 maybe not directly involved in yourself
0:07:15 um
0:07:16 some time ago you came speaks corner
0:07:18 there was some kind of drama between you
0:07:20 and
0:07:20 oshid and um it was surrounding the case
0:07:23 of
0:07:25 haddad and a particular video
0:07:28 that came out basically the shiite he
0:07:31 went to a
0:07:32 that that man put out which is that he
0:07:34 went to a place where he was discussing
0:07:36 with the shia and stuff like that and
0:07:37 then
0:07:38 you know from that there was all kinds
0:07:40 of conclusions that were made on his
0:07:41 character
0:07:42 do i just want to ask you a direct
0:07:44 question do were you involved in that
0:07:45 were you part of the
0:07:47 um the backing that dalman had for that
0:07:50 video do you agree with that do you
0:07:51 endorse that
0:07:52 do you think that that was something
0:07:54 which is uh fair
0:07:56 that was said about or do you think that
0:07:59 that's something that maybe shouldn't
0:08:01 have been done
0:08:03 so there's a number of things that we
0:08:04 can actually mention with regards to
0:08:06 that right
0:08:07 um because you asked a couple of
0:08:09 questions as well
0:08:10 did they or did he have the backing of
0:08:12 myself before he made the video
0:08:14 okay or was it just after and so on and
0:08:17 so forth right
0:08:19 um firstly um
0:08:22 i personally didn't know about the video
0:08:24 till after it came up
0:08:26 i was hearing about a video that's going
0:08:27 to be released
0:08:29 okay did i know about it beforehand and
0:08:32 that is
0:08:32 that's not correct and i know now
0:08:34 obviously um
0:08:36 because of a video that went out between
0:08:38 him and sajid i didn't even know they
0:08:40 were making that video
0:08:41 but it comes across there that the team
0:08:44 was this
0:08:45 was it was consulted and um
0:08:48 and also my name was mentioned uh in
0:08:50 good light by both of the brothers
0:08:52 so one could easily think that i kind of
0:08:56 authorized it
0:08:57 which i didn't okay um
0:09:01 but there is mistakes that i did and i'm
0:09:03 not just gonna like throw somebody under
0:09:05 the bus and kind of free myself and just
0:09:07 you know run away from the situation
0:09:10 uh there is mistakes that i did
0:09:14 that i really really really regret and i
0:09:18 began to think more about it
0:09:20 when i got to medina because when there
0:09:22 is
0:09:23 um a lot of battles taking place and
0:09:25 you're on the ground
0:09:26 it's like a war zone right and sometimes
0:09:28 it doesn't really allow you to
0:09:30 just think outside of the box but when
0:09:33 you kind of like
0:09:34 just step out it allows you to look at
0:09:36 things in a better perspective
0:09:38 okay so um and of course that incident
0:09:42 with adnan oshida happened just before
0:09:44 i went to medina like i wasn't planning
0:09:46 to go to hyde park
0:09:49 me my cousin siraj i think you know him
0:09:51 right
0:09:52 we happen to be eating in edgeway road i
0:09:54 was you know going to be leaving very
0:09:56 soon so i want to spend my
0:09:57 some good time with one of my favorite
0:10:00 cousins right
0:10:01 so um he follows uh alidah on snapchat
0:10:05 so he saw adidas he goes oh let's just
0:10:07 go and i've never been there before i've
0:10:08 never ever been there before
0:10:10 so we're going to come on to that later
0:10:12 anyways inshaallah to add exactly what
0:10:13 happened
0:10:15 okay just reminded me just in case i
0:10:18 forget
0:10:19 so when i got to medina um
0:10:22 i just really just started thinking
0:10:23 about this issue more some brothers
0:10:26 did come up to me in a very nice way and
0:10:28 they said you know
0:10:30 i just want you to you know maybe just
0:10:32 think about everything that you did
0:10:34 you know was a good thing was it not so
0:10:36 that got my thinking
0:10:38 going you know uh until one day i think
0:10:41 this was like two three weeks in
0:10:43 my brother called uma is the son of law
0:10:46 the son-in-law of
0:10:47 dr haytham right came up to me
0:10:50 i was saying in the haram i was reading
0:10:52 a hadith
0:10:55 and and i didn't know who he was i
0:10:58 didn't know who he was
0:11:00 and uh and uh he basically pointed out
0:11:04 that incident right and and he mentioned
0:11:07 the other incident as well about the
0:11:09 student loans that when we went to
0:11:12 kuwait so
0:11:14 we had discussions on a number of things
0:11:16 and there's no need for me to mention
0:11:17 now because and my journey is
0:11:19 but i'm going to mention this issue this
0:11:21 one issue
0:11:23 the moment he brought up dr hayton i
0:11:25 said to him look
0:11:26 we
0:11:35 when they asked him that uh to put down
0:11:38 the prices after everything started
0:11:39 becoming inflated right
0:11:42 so he said this to him i want to meet
0:11:44 allah azzawajal
0:11:45 this is what the mistletoe i'm saying
0:11:47 right and none of you guys
0:11:49 are asking me as none of you guys are
0:11:53 making a complaint
0:11:54 against me with regards to blood money
0:11:56 with regards to the wealth of the people
0:11:57 and so on and so forth
0:12:00 the people's honors come under this as
0:12:01 well right
0:12:04 and uh and ever since then
0:12:08 i just started thinking about i promised
0:12:09 him that i'm going to look into the
0:12:10 issue
0:12:11 this is right at the beginning exactly
0:12:13 like four years ago
0:12:15 that i'm going to look into it i'm going
0:12:16 to research the issue
0:12:19 and uh and to be very honest with you i
0:12:22 kind of just got very occupied
0:12:25 and but the thing just started
0:12:28 you know every now and again it would
0:12:30 just come back to life again
0:12:32 like in the haram being in the haram
0:12:35 and just seeing the different zoar like
0:12:37 the different tourists those who come
0:12:39 from
0:12:39 hajj subhanallah i actually began to
0:12:42 realize
0:12:43 how powerful youtube is i don't think i
0:12:47 realized that till
0:12:48 after i actually got to medina because
0:12:49 medina is like a central point for
0:12:51 muslims to come right
0:12:52 and people watch you online and the
0:12:55 repercussions i didn't see how bad it
0:12:56 was that actually got there
0:12:58 with certain things not just necessarily
0:13:00 my issue but
0:13:02 other things that happen and and
0:13:03 whatever have you right
0:13:05 so of course from allah azzawajal you
0:13:07 know videos going out and getting views
0:13:10 and
0:13:10 reaching different parts of the world so
0:13:13 every now and again i would
0:13:15 see people from around the world coming
0:13:16 up to me stopping me
0:13:19 many of them really just appreciating
0:13:21 but some people they would
0:13:23 just point this issue out so it's like
0:13:26 allah azza
0:13:27 was keeping this issue fresh in my mind
0:13:30 and to not just sleep on it
0:13:34 and um so two years in
0:13:37 it kind of like just went like that once
0:13:39 the two-year
0:13:40 mark went by i started taking this issue
0:13:45 much
0:13:45 much more seriously like brothers are
0:13:48 bringing their arguments
0:13:49 about that specific incident i'm not
0:13:51 speaking about
0:13:52 that dr haddad having gone to
0:13:56 shia for the purpose of uniting with
0:13:58 them
0:14:00 okay and was that the case was that not
0:14:03 the case
0:14:05 and everybody brings me the arguments
0:14:06 you have those who are pro and those who
0:14:08 are against it right
0:14:10 and um i really just started taking this
0:14:13 issue much more seriously
0:14:15 i think about it for a moment i don't
0:14:18 think any of us
0:14:19 want to have um
0:14:23 you know the oppression on our backs
0:14:25 something very powerful that um
0:14:39 send me all of knowledge it's a big
0:14:42 it's a big question right
0:14:46 responded back and he said
0:14:49 knowledge is too vast
0:14:52 but in terms of
0:15:05 and you're not carrying the burden of
0:15:06 having taken lives
0:15:09 okay khameer salvation
0:15:12 and your stomach is void from the wealth
0:15:14 of the people
0:15:18 and you've managed to refrain your
0:15:20 tongue from the
0:15:22 you know the uh the honor of people
0:15:23 right lazy
0:15:27 and you're sticking to the jamaa the
0:15:29 congregation of the muslims
0:15:31 then do so he could have told talk to
0:15:34 him about anything
0:15:36 look what he's actually advising him
0:15:38 about okay
0:15:41 and that's not a lie man it really
0:15:43 really isn't a light matter
0:15:45 and so you're studying at the same time
0:15:49 you know the evidence is about
0:15:50 volume about oppression having said
0:15:53 something that you shouldn't have said
0:15:55 because just because somebody is wrong
0:15:58 in something
0:15:59 it doesn't justify you now to start
0:16:01 pinning up against him everything else
0:16:04 okay refutations are part of our
0:16:06 religion okay
0:16:08 it's something that the sharia uh
0:16:11 calls to is something that is mentioned
0:16:13 in a hadith there's something that the
0:16:14 messenger
0:16:15 wasn't done the companion has done it
0:16:16 those who came after them they ordered
0:16:18 it
0:16:18 okay and even ibrutinib
0:16:22 he mentions some very very very powerful
0:16:24 statements he says
0:16:31 the coolest innovation their scholars
0:16:35 are more dangerous upon the ummah than
0:16:38 the people of the
0:16:38 noob the people who sin then he then
0:16:41 says
0:16:48 this is the messenger commanded to kill
0:16:51 the khawaris the kharagis that's how
0:16:52 they translate right
0:16:54 or is there any other word that you guys
0:16:56 use
0:16:58 uh he commanded that they are killed but
0:17:00 he said not to kill
0:17:02 the oppressive
0:17:16 is calling the people to innovation
0:17:19 okay
0:17:23 it is a must that his situation is
0:17:26 clarified to the people
0:17:27 okay and then he goes on to say well
0:17:33 removing his harms is more
0:17:37 better more greater okay
0:17:40 then removing the harm of a highway
0:17:43 bandit
0:17:45 okay like for example muhammad let's be
0:17:48 honest here if you see a pedophile
0:17:51 who's going to do something to our kids
0:17:53 right
0:17:54 you're going to want the people from him
0:17:56 right am i wrong saying that
0:17:59 and this is something related to
0:18:02 um the integrity of our loved ones and
0:18:05 whatever have you and likewise if
0:18:07 someone's going to steal something from
0:18:08 you you're going to warn that person
0:18:10 and adeen the religion of allah is far
0:18:13 greater than this
0:18:14 having said that having said that
0:18:18 when rebuking it requires a lot of
0:18:20 hikmah okay
0:18:22 and this is exactly what i'm allowed to
0:18:24 mention it goes
0:18:32 it is to do that which is appropriate
0:18:34 befitting okay
0:18:36 in a manner that is befitting and also
0:18:38 that time has to be befitting us all
0:18:40 and they mention three pillars first
0:18:43 pillar that he mentions
0:18:45 he has to be done with knowledge and
0:18:47 then he also mentions
0:18:50 and then he mentions the three opposites
0:18:52 and i'm going to comment to that
0:18:54 okay it has to be done with knowledge
0:18:56 you can't just basically say something
0:18:57 about someone
0:18:58 that is not true are you connecting this
0:19:00 with um
0:19:01 doctor yeah i'm gonna comment okay i'm
0:19:03 gonna come into that right
0:19:05 it's important that we mention this
0:19:06 because it's a taboo topic
0:19:08 and i believe sometimes there's two
0:19:10 extremes on this matter right
0:19:13 so it has to be done with knowledge then
0:19:14 you have also
0:19:17 which basically means not acting on
0:19:19 emotions
0:19:20 someone's upset you and he's angered you
0:19:25 i mean they usually translate as
0:19:27 forbearance okay forbearance
0:19:33 okay like somebody's angry you don't
0:19:35 rush to kind of like
0:19:36 punishing him and holding him into
0:19:38 account and then and that is
0:19:40 to just think about things like slowly
0:19:43 not to be hasty and rushing into it and
0:19:46 i believe that
0:19:46 i actually was very hasty just listening
0:19:50 to one side and seeing some parts of
0:19:52 some videos cut up
0:19:54 and i take the full blame for them
0:20:00 and we'll you know uh speak more about
0:20:02 it in a bit insha'allah
0:20:04 okay
0:20:14 announcing things right okay and
0:20:17 uh unveiling the secrets and of the
0:20:20 discussions that happen and so on and so
0:20:22 forth
0:20:22 so just rushing into things you're in
0:20:25 need of and
0:20:26 and this is something that messenger
0:20:28 sallallahu alaihi wasallam said that
0:20:29 allah really loves when he was speaking
0:20:30 to
0:20:31 the place right in your
0:20:36 and he mentioned the three opposite
0:20:37 things of that he said ignorance
0:20:41 unthoughtfulness i think that's how they
0:20:43 translate right
0:20:44 and uh hastiness
0:20:48 so going back to what i was saying even
0:20:50 if the guy is a kafir
0:20:52 like you're a few atheists all the time
0:20:54 right and you speak about
0:20:55 the christians and i'm just bringing the
0:20:57 worst example here
0:20:59 if that christian
0:21:02 believes that jesus is the son of god
0:21:04 you are not allowed to say about him
0:21:05 islamically speaking and this is the
0:21:07 fairness that our religion came with
0:21:09 that jose is the son of god
0:21:12 you can't say about the individual what
0:21:15 which has no
0:21:16 reality whatsoever okay
0:21:19 he says
0:21:23 it's not lawful for you to oppress
0:21:27 any individual even if the guy's a cafe
0:21:30 and then he
0:21:31 mentioned the statement of allah
0:21:32 azzawajal
0:21:37 be fair don't let the hate that you have
0:21:39 for people entice you
0:21:40 to being unjust even if the guy is a
0:21:42 shia
0:21:44 shiite right he's cursing
0:21:48 and i know what you call it some of them
0:21:50 might have tokyo whatever have you right
0:21:53 but because he's now cursing morale you
0:21:55 can't just pin against that individual
0:22:00 let alone anyone else who is less in
0:22:02 danger
0:22:03 than the shiites and the christians like
0:22:05 the huani's even if the guy is in the
0:22:06 hawaii
0:22:08 the guy is the sufi diobandi wherever
0:22:10 brelvi sometimes you find that your
0:22:12 bandits are refuting the braves
0:22:14 and the other way around and this group
0:22:16 is refuting that group salafi might be
0:22:17 refuting that
0:22:18 you cannot say about that individual
0:22:21 which he hasn't done
0:22:22 if you're going to rebuke him rebuking
0:22:24 for what he said what he's done
0:22:26 okay and um
0:22:29 so i just feel like um
0:22:32 that issue about the shiite um
0:22:36 was a bit of that kind so let me just
0:22:38 quickly mention exactly of what kind
0:22:40 um it was it wasn't it wasn't it was it
0:22:42 wasn't fair at all
0:22:43 it was it was it was totally unjust so
0:22:47 as i'm coming up to the two years it's
0:22:48 really bothering me now right
0:22:50 why did you before you continue with
0:22:51 that sorry what made you come to that
0:22:53 conclusion now
0:22:54 i mean what was the thing because
0:22:58 so from what i understand so far in the
0:23:00 picture you
0:23:01 didn't endorse it in the today beginning
0:23:03 but then you
0:23:04 kind of looked into it and thought
0:23:06 actually this seems like a cut and paste
0:23:08 job maybe or it's being meshed together
0:23:10 in a way which is not
0:23:11 favorable makes it look uh something
0:23:15 that it's not so um
0:23:19 what exactly about it do you think is
0:23:21 unfair about it
0:23:22 okay i'm gonna come on to that so so now
0:23:24 the last two years
0:23:25 every now and again i think about it i
0:23:27 ask allah azzawajal to help me deal with
0:23:29 this issue
0:23:30 in the best and most correct way right
0:23:35 praying is tahara i've even went to the
0:23:37 kaaba okay
0:23:39 and then one year before that i dropped
0:23:41 a message to dr haytham
0:23:43 on his whatsapp i got the number and i
0:23:45 dropped a message to him
0:23:47 about the issue of tibet
0:23:52 right i never did that just because
0:23:56 a friend of mine okay
0:23:59 if your associates they do something
0:24:01 it's not fair again
0:24:02 for you to be painted with the same
0:24:04 brush i just wanted to claim myself with
0:24:06 him
0:24:06 and i clearly and explicitly said to the
0:24:09 i do not agree
0:24:10 with the stances that you take and the
0:24:12 views that you have and i'm not going to
0:24:13 go into the other things that
0:24:15 we discussed then because it's not right
0:24:18 um i discussed this right now right
0:24:21 um i said i had no i do not agree with
0:24:25 you but i did not say that
0:24:27 okay if abdulrahman's done today on you
0:24:29 i've got nothing to do with that
0:24:31 you see what i'm saying do you know
0:24:33 anyone else other than
0:24:34 in the in the group of the rahman hassan
0:24:37 that
0:24:37 did that pronounce that ruling on him
0:24:40 that called him an innovation uh let's
0:24:43 be more specific maybe calling the
0:24:45 khawani
0:24:45 right so you have to understand that but
0:24:48 is it it's anonymous for them for
0:24:50 like for example and he considers that
0:24:54 deviant sect and so therefore so this is
0:24:57 synonymous
0:24:58 the same thing yeah and i mean like just
0:25:00 so we're clear exactly what we're saying
0:25:02 in it you know
0:25:03 but uh if you call somebody that's
0:25:06 you've declared that individual to be an
0:25:07 innovator if you depend
0:25:08 if you think that yeah
0:25:26 many people say that you know
0:25:30 they're not they're not really a sect in
0:25:31 that sense the islamic
0:25:33 definition of a sect the thing is if
0:25:35 we're going to say ich ma
0:25:36 i would have to know what every single
0:25:38 scholar said no i don't think i've done
0:25:40 it
0:25:40 like i haven't collected every single
0:25:42 scholar because
0:25:43 means that every scholar in that time
0:25:47 he has to agree and take a position of a
0:25:48 certain yeah even even
0:25:50 even more problematic i was reading
0:25:52 sorry to cut you off
0:25:53 this might be a tangent but i was
0:25:55 reading sunnah okay and
0:25:56 uh i was talking about who's included in
0:25:59 ishmael
0:26:00 and what makes it more difficult is that
0:26:02 he actually includes the martezi lander
0:26:05 you know it's gonna be difficult to get
0:26:06 his mouth okay it's not a condition in
0:26:08 order for
0:26:09 a group to be misguided you don't always
0:26:11 what you call an identity for everything
0:26:14 in order for help them to take place
0:26:15 right like nothing but the force we move
0:26:17 them for
0:26:19 not even muslims i'm just speaking about
0:26:20 if we clearly established that
0:26:22 this sect sector's totally misguided do
0:26:25 i really need an ijmat before and hukum
0:26:27 can be made by a scholar
0:26:29 possibly not really okay before it
0:26:31 removes them
0:26:32 now i'm not talking about i'm going to
0:26:33 impose this on you and you have to take
0:26:35 this
0:26:36 i'm not basically saying that you have
0:26:37 to take my view or that yeah that's the
0:26:39 view
0:26:39 if the sheikh says and there's even
0:26:41 maybe even if there's one person with
0:26:43 him or even it is
0:26:44 no one ever to be a delete you know what
0:26:47 really matters is
0:26:48 the evidences that are being brought
0:26:49 forward right but i can't enforce
0:26:52 it upon you to say yeah you have to take
0:26:53 this and if you don't take that
0:26:55 you're an innovator agreed well yeah
0:26:59 yeah yeah this is uh it's unacceptable
0:27:03 yeah
0:27:04 what i was gonna say was that at this
0:27:05 point of going back to it's clear like
0:27:07 let's be honest that they considered him
0:27:09 an innovator someone who's not sunny
0:27:11 he said that in the park yeah about that
0:27:12 one he came in they said that yeah i
0:27:13 don't believe
0:27:15 blah blah blah he made that kind of
0:27:17 articulation so
0:27:19 you're saying you don't have anything to
0:27:20 do with that
0:27:23 there is a difference between declaring
0:27:25 somebody an innovator right
0:27:26 and one having fallen into innovation
0:27:28 that's why he says
0:27:41 yeah and uh and not everybody that falls
0:27:43 into a bidder can you call him a move
0:27:45 teddy
0:27:45 okay that's we need to really just
0:27:47 differentiate between the two
0:27:49 okay i might say okay this person has
0:27:53 these uh bid acts with him these
0:27:55 innovations with him
0:27:56 that doesn't mean that i'm calling him
0:27:58 an innovator tadia is something huge
0:28:00 right okay um uh
0:28:04 this is not a light matter so you're
0:28:06 saying
0:28:14 so for you now you have to understand
0:28:16 like these kind of things are normally
0:28:18 done in a court case yeah
0:28:20 and you get how to account for you know
0:28:22 compensations go out because of what you
0:28:24 say actually about a person
0:28:26 when it comes to taking him out keeping
0:28:28 him in right do you think that
0:28:30 so therefore do you think do you think
0:28:32 that that that was a mistake
0:28:34 well then we have to make that kind of
0:28:35 this no i'm saying this is an issue that
0:28:39 none of us should be speaking about okay
0:28:40 it's an issue that needs to be taken to
0:28:42 the scholars
0:28:51 these are big affairs that doesn't go
0:28:52 back to myself
0:28:54 yourself these students of knowledge who
0:28:57 are in the uk
0:28:58 even in the west this is an issue leave
0:29:00 it to the scholars this is their job
0:29:02 okay you see what i'm saying yeah so um
0:29:05 that's what
0:29:05 that's what should have happened that's
0:29:07 what should have happened and i said it
0:29:08 to both of them as well right
0:29:09 and even if let's be fair just to if
0:29:12 they took it to the scholars
0:29:14 and the school is pronounced
0:29:17 it's not we have to follow that scholar
0:29:19 they they have a right to say that
0:29:21 but that they have a right to do knuckle
0:29:22 of it like we need to say
0:29:25 do you mean by okay he's an innovator
0:29:27 now right
0:29:28 and because he's an innovator all of you
0:29:30 guys have to follow me on this and if
0:29:32 you don't follow me on this then you
0:29:34 you guys have got issues
0:29:37 yeah because sometimes a person it might
0:29:39 not necessarily become clear to him
0:29:41 yeah you see what i'm saying so there's
0:29:43 a lot of like things
0:29:44 attached a lot of strings attached and i
0:29:47 don't think we can go through an hour
0:29:48 just discussing yeah of course
0:29:49 a tab dear and take fear books have been
0:29:52 written on it yeah
0:29:53 the scholars have spoken about it
0:29:54 extensively yeah and uh
0:29:56 it's an academic discussion that you
0:29:58 need to go back to his books like i'm
0:29:59 talking about the viewer not necessarily
0:30:01 yourself
0:30:02 okay yeah yeah yeah so um
0:30:06 but yeah so your your position now is
0:30:08 clear i i feel like you're saying that
0:30:10 that was something that you think was
0:30:12 not the right thing to have done so let
0:30:13 me actually explain now how i actually
0:30:15 came to this point okay um
0:30:19 so there's like one year left now right
0:30:21 till this very moment right
0:30:23 i dropped him a message and i said okay
0:30:24 i don't make tabby
0:30:26 right but he said look i disagree with
0:30:30 dr haysom's positions but what you guys
0:30:33 done yeah
0:30:33 that was oppression wow
0:30:37 i remember he said some he said the eye
0:30:38 to me
0:30:46 and do not do they not think that
0:30:48 they're gonna stand in front of their
0:30:49 laws
0:30:50 that they're going to be resurrected on
0:30:51 your marquis my phone
0:30:53 leo may not have them to a great day the
0:30:56 day when the people are going to be
0:30:57 standing in front of their laws right
0:30:59 at that moment he put shivers down my
0:31:01 back of me
0:31:04 and um and he basically said to me
0:31:07 go check the video there was i wasn't
0:31:10 aware of this video
0:31:11 yeah i i i i i i don't know they put a
0:31:13 video on your video
0:31:14 huh the actual the whole uh
0:31:18 i think it was like a 40 minute yeah
0:31:19 when he was going to debate this yeah
0:31:21 and then they said that he was going to
0:31:22 unite with them
0:31:22 yeah that one so yeah that one is i
0:31:25 think the after that they put it out as
0:31:26 the counter
0:31:28 part two oh is it how did i see yeah
0:31:30 it's like a 40 minute one
0:31:31 they put english subtitles and
0:31:32 everything as well and they put out
0:31:37 if i'm not wrong i don't think i've ever
0:31:38 seen that video before
0:31:40 okay that night i watched it eight times
0:31:43 and i mentioned it with john as all
0:32:00 the sixth or seventh time i burst down
0:32:02 into tears
0:32:03 i broke down into tears and i even went
0:32:05 to the cab after that
0:32:07 um just ask allah so because now
0:32:10 okay i'm in a situation now because i
0:32:13 said something publicly
0:32:14 in the adnan rashid debate which we're
0:32:15 going to comment to in a minute yeah and
0:32:17 i defended that stance
0:32:19 right okay and i also spread it and
0:32:22 there was many times that i justified it
0:32:24 now right
0:32:25 and so many how many people watched that
0:32:27 video
0:32:29 it's it's a good quarter of a million
0:32:30 really both of them yeah emerald's video
0:32:32 and another shit's video as well
0:32:35 yeah that video gave me a lot of
0:32:36 publicity as well so uh
0:32:38 no but but now you're saying that that
0:32:40 was right practically
0:32:42 but he he dis we're going to come into
0:32:44 that promise we're going to come and do
0:32:46 that
0:32:47 okay so um i'm in a position now i have
0:32:51 to clarify this publicly
0:32:52 yeah because even azimuth
0:32:56 mentions that whatever is done privately
0:32:59 you deal with it privately
0:33:00 and whatever is done publicly you have
0:33:03 to you have to you have to deal with it
0:33:04 publicly right as allah mentions
0:33:07 right because i did it publicly now i
0:33:10 have to at least make sure that to the
0:33:11 best of my ability i can get that
0:33:12 message across to all these people
0:33:14 who may have taken out from that video
0:33:17 that what i was saying was correct
0:33:19 if i come to the conclusion of this so
0:33:21 are you saying because you've quoted the
0:33:22 verse
0:33:28 are you are you making are making
0:33:29 repentance publicly on this map yeah of
0:33:31 course
0:33:32 what am i making this video for the
0:33:33 reason i'm making this video is
0:33:35 i have to like clarify this you see what
0:33:37 i'm saying
0:33:38 and um so uh
0:33:42 so yeah so when he said that to me and i
0:33:44 watched that video that very night and
0:33:45 this is in front of the camera right
0:33:50 something has to be done right and uh
0:33:54 and obviously at that time all these
0:33:56 ayats are going through your head
0:33:57 you know your friends yo me affirmative
0:34:00 because at the end
0:34:01 even though they might i'm close to them
0:34:03 okay he's not gonna come and stand in
0:34:05 front of allah
0:34:06 azza will defend my cause you see what
0:34:07 i'm saying as allah mentions
0:34:11 every person is going to come by himself
0:34:13 and the day when the brother is going to
0:34:15 run away from his brother and
0:34:16 mother and so on and so forth right and
0:34:21 and just as i defended my brothers in
0:34:22 the past and they loved for me to defend
0:34:25 them
0:34:27 um it's important that someone else
0:34:30 should get that as all you see what i'm
0:34:32 saying just like as you love to be
0:34:33 defended
0:34:34 i'm sure you'll accept as though that
0:34:37 the defense is against you know
0:34:40 so aki for the last month or like the
0:34:42 last month
0:34:43 because i have a little studio in my
0:34:44 flat and i was like i just i've been
0:34:46 thinking about how can i would you call
0:34:48 it
0:34:49 um really just get this out how can i
0:34:51 deal with it
0:34:53 and uh and then that these two videos
0:34:55 came out
0:34:57 and it's just subhanallah and it just
0:35:00 happened to happen you know
0:35:03 um so yeah so where are we at the moment
0:35:06 so yes
0:35:07 so you're at the point where i was
0:35:08 talking about you watched the video
0:35:10 seven eight times
0:35:11 and you came to a conclusion that you
0:35:13 that was
0:35:14 to be associated with that and to defend
0:35:16 that position yeah
0:35:18 um because like i said you know with
0:35:19 adam rashid yeah that discussion with
0:35:21 him that discussion that
0:35:23 uh i had with adnan rashid i stood by
0:35:26 that position and i even said that this
0:35:28 has caused confusion and everything of
0:35:29 what he was doing
0:35:31 and i've heard some of the arguments as
0:35:32 well that the brothers bring that he
0:35:34 woke up that day
0:35:35 to go and unite with the shia okay this
0:35:38 is what the whole
0:35:40 the whole conversation was about when i
0:35:43 went back to the video
0:35:44 the fact that as soon as they let him
0:35:47 speak
0:35:48 his blasting what's in their books and
0:35:50 everything and
0:35:51 and he keeps on repeating in kunda
0:35:53 nuridu
0:35:55 we're gonna unite
0:36:00 we have to we have to what treat and
0:36:04 cure the
0:36:05 because everything runs on it goes dual
0:36:08 you know countries are built on
0:36:11 and um and i heard some of the arguments
0:36:14 that the brothers mentioned as all that
0:36:16 um okay babe what are they gonna leave
0:36:18 like are they gonna leave just
0:36:20 huh uh cursing the companions and
0:36:22 everything else
0:36:24 um so even if they leave off some of
0:36:27 these points they're still shiites right
0:36:29 they're still shias
0:36:30 so he's gonna unite with them even
0:36:32 though the shia eyes
0:36:34 having left off some of these points
0:36:36 that are quite major
0:36:39 but at the end of the day i i kind of
0:36:41 think that's
0:36:42 how can i put this i mean the quran says
0:36:47 doesn't mention all the things that you
0:36:49 know of course even when you go into a
0:36:51 debate now right when you go into debate
0:36:56 okay get rid of this then we'll have
0:36:58 another discussion you see what i'm
0:36:59 saying yeah
0:37:00 and um at that time mentioned to me that
0:37:02 this is something that shitholi
0:37:04 mentioned right i tried to find it until
0:37:06 now i haven't found it and i'm still
0:37:07 looking
0:37:08 for it um but this is what he quoted to
0:37:10 me at the time
0:37:12 okay so i believe he was it was kind of
0:37:15 like just
0:37:16 really being fair you know he was when
0:37:18 he said that to me it was just
0:37:19 really being fair and uh so yeah when i
0:37:23 was in hyde park
0:37:25 i didn't even go there to debate anymore
0:37:26 that's the first time i've ever been to
0:37:28 hyde park
0:37:28 i live in leicester like i mentioned i
0:37:30 went there to
0:37:33 have lunch with my cousin because he
0:37:35 follows alidawah
0:37:36 yeah because let's go to the park as
0:37:38 well now let's go to hyde park
0:37:40 so i go there
0:37:41 [Music]
0:37:44 me and the funny thing is alidawah was
0:37:47 actually
0:37:48 debating with um with one of these uh
0:37:53 one of these one of these kafir guys who
0:37:56 maybe you know him he's a black african
0:37:58 guy
0:37:59 who's trying to make the religion of
0:38:00 islam look very barbaric
0:38:02 okay and the message in somalia is
0:38:04 really bloodthirsty
0:38:06 to take lives and whatever have you so
0:38:08 ali dawa
0:38:09 is debating him so when i get there um
0:38:13 i'm listening right and i'm just like
0:38:15 really wanting to just you know say
0:38:16 something to this guy so ali dawa goes
0:38:18 you know what i don't know the verse
0:38:20 speak to him
0:38:22 so i'm basically throwing ayat at this
0:38:24 guy versus this guy right
0:38:26 and the guy is basically getting to the
0:38:28 point he can't answer to some of the
0:38:30 ayah the verses you're saying that the
0:38:31 religion is barbaric and
0:38:32 it forces people so i just gave you all
0:38:34 the ayat
0:38:36 it's not happening right while this is
0:38:38 happening
0:38:39 adnan rasheed calls me because i want to
0:38:41 speak to you
0:38:43 and me at that point like i've heard
0:38:45 good things about nanoshit i don't know
0:38:47 him like that john fontaine said some
0:38:48 good things about him that they've
0:38:49 traveled together
0:38:51 and um i the only time that i know i've
0:38:54 done rasheed is
0:38:55 from the debate from the debate that
0:38:59 abdullah hassan when he was debating on
0:39:00 sarasota i was sitting there right
0:39:03 adnan rasheed is messaging me in a very
0:39:06 very respectful way okay
0:39:09 i know that i'm not his sheikh no i know
0:39:14 so but the point is he's being very
0:39:15 respectful yeah that's yeah that's how
0:39:17 he is
0:39:17 yeah so uh that's the only thing that
0:39:20 i've ever known of him
0:39:21 so he's saying make sure you say this
0:39:23 make sure this gets to him
0:39:25 i've never seen him from then so all my
0:39:27 relationship with him is a very
0:39:28 respectful relationship
0:39:29 he does he does that with with people
0:39:34 yeah and that's a very respectful way to
0:39:36 speak to someone even
0:39:38 yeah of course i've never told him
0:39:39 anything like he's older than me and
0:39:41 everything right so the point in all of
0:39:42 this is
0:39:43 you're speaking in a very respectful way
0:39:45 that's all i've ever known of you
0:39:47 you call me to the park like and i can
0:39:50 see him he's very
0:39:51 very angry very upset
0:39:55 and uh i don't understand why he's upset
0:39:57 why he's screwing
0:39:58 until we actually start the discussion
0:40:00 be honest i don't watch the whole
0:40:01 discussion
0:40:02 so i thought i watched bits of it like
0:40:05 highlights and stuff
0:40:06 but the gist of it from what i
0:40:08 understand is that basically
0:40:10 like you said you were you were
0:40:11 defending that position and he was not
0:40:13 he was saying
0:40:14 he was upset he was he was he was angry
0:40:16 and yeah
0:40:18 yeah no he wasn't even he was basically
0:40:20 saying uh
0:40:21 we we went from one topic to another
0:40:23 topic and no
0:40:24 no topics it wasn't like a healthy way
0:40:26 of having a discussion
0:40:28 okay that's why that's why even clearing
0:40:29 the video i keep saying okay let's go
0:40:31 sit there
0:40:32 let's go outside see the guys angry and
0:40:33 i miss a lot and what did he say
0:40:35 if you're standing up and you're angry
0:40:36 go and sit down if you're sitting down
0:40:38 and go lie down right
0:40:40 so um and okay i wasn't trying to
0:40:44 disrespect him
0:40:45 i wasn't being horrible towards him i
0:40:47 can see why he's upset
0:40:49 because how about this how about that
0:40:50 we'll put all of that behind us yeah
0:40:53 seriously muhammad i i i don't
0:40:57 mean rasheed until that debate which was
0:41:00 i think maybe like two weeks before
0:41:03 or maybe like three weeks before our
0:41:05 discussion in hyde park right i wouldn't
0:41:07 even call it even
0:41:07 never huh it was just i wasn't that
0:41:09 wasn't that was an argument
0:41:11 it was just an argument and and um
0:41:14 yeah and you know like what i would put
0:41:16 to you now on this on this issue around
0:41:18 the russians
0:41:19 it seems like you and him are on the
0:41:20 same page in a sense that you don't you
0:41:21 both believe in the same
0:41:23 things and like you're agreeing that
0:41:26 you know that [ __ ] that video shouldn't
0:41:27 be put out which i think was the main
0:41:30 point though let me make this very
0:41:31 crystally clear right i'm speaking about
0:41:33 that point
0:41:34 yeah of doctor hathan yeah yeah
0:41:37 um i think he was basically just trying
0:41:40 too hard
0:41:42 yeah yeah and what what said about him
0:41:44 like there's other things that if you
0:41:46 wanted to refume that you could refute
0:41:47 him on
0:41:48 but at that point i believe he was wrong
0:41:50 and you'd have to get someone on his
0:41:51 level to be fair yeah
0:41:53 that's yeah yeah otherwise it would just
0:41:55 i mean from an end user perspective
0:41:57 people would just
0:41:58 like i mean i'm happy somewhere i want
0:42:00 to see i want to hear i personally want
0:42:01 to hear
0:42:02 a second opinion on the student loan
0:42:03 issue or no no
0:42:05 no no the student loan yeah or the
0:42:08 voting issue whatever
0:42:09 whatever it is that positions
0:42:10 controversial yeah but it's got to be
0:42:12 someone
0:42:12 you know because even if say for example
0:42:14 let's let's let's say that people have
0:42:16 the knowledge
0:42:17 and they're younger than him yeah let's
0:42:18 just agree it's just not going to be
0:42:20 taken seriously from the end user
0:42:22 so if someone's on his level right and
0:42:24 comes out and
0:42:25 his age and his experience or whatever
0:42:28 and has the
0:42:29 tools that he has and provides an
0:42:31 academic
0:42:32 refutational response i'll listen to it
0:42:35 you know what i mean
0:42:36 but don't you think that's a problem
0:42:37 with the listener himself like in the
0:42:39 sense where
0:42:41 and of course this is what academia does
0:42:43 to the people right phd phd
0:42:45 masters masters bacclaurius i'm not even
0:42:48 mentioning like i'm not talking about as
0:42:49 qualifications i'm just i'm thinking
0:42:51 more about
0:42:52 um in the years in industry
0:42:56 like how long have you studied for do
0:42:58 you know what i mean if you're a person
0:42:59 i'm not
0:43:00 trying to take a digger anyway i'm not
0:43:01 obviously talking about you in
0:43:02 particular but
0:43:03 if you're a person that has barely uh
0:43:06 grappled with the arabic language
0:43:07 and doesn't know how to string a
0:43:08 sentence or don't know how to speak
0:43:10 in the arabic language and has a member
0:43:12 of the quran
0:43:13 and yeah and so on and so they don't
0:43:15 have animal they don't have it
0:43:17 or they have it on a very superficial
0:43:18 level and then you go out and attack
0:43:20 that or something
0:43:24 yeah or he's got much more controversial
0:43:25 opinions or
0:43:27 hamsa youssef who's got some
0:43:29 controversial opinions especially
0:43:30 you're not gonna be um accepted
0:43:34 and the reason why is just because the
0:43:36 guy's age the guy's credentials the guys
0:43:38 uh he's been in the game longer than you
0:43:40 have and it's just
0:43:42 it's not like for like if that makes
0:43:44 sense it's not like for like
0:43:45 so um that's what we especially on
0:43:49 matters where
0:43:49 you need you need more than more than
0:43:52 superficial knowledge
0:43:53 i i think that's my just my view on it i
0:43:56 might be wrong
0:43:57 but i think a lot of people from from
0:43:59 the feedback i've been getting is
0:44:00 they would kind of look in that
0:44:02 direction you know i mean someone who's
0:44:04 a bit older someone is
0:44:05 and is not personally or emotionally
0:44:06 invested in the issue but look
0:44:08 let's focus on the positives here i
0:44:10 think that there's the positives in this
0:44:11 situation is that
0:44:13 that people are coming towards the same
0:44:14 kind of understanding look
0:44:16 when it comes to subjective fear let's
0:44:18 have a more nuanced approach
0:44:19 otherwise i believe it's going to be
0:44:20 chaos there will be chaos there it's
0:44:22 going to just
0:44:22 the issue is just you're going to find a
0:44:25 bunch of individuals
0:44:26 here yeah just coming out and speaking
0:44:28 about these very big issues okay
0:44:30 i can just leave it for whatever
0:44:32 scholarship just let them do their thing
0:44:34 yeah that kind of responsibility
0:44:38 yeah yeah and alhamdulillah he hasn't
0:44:41 because if he has then we would be in
0:44:42 big trouble if we get things wrong
0:44:43 yeah you know and so that's one thing so
0:44:46 now you would say that
0:44:55 yeah i don't think i've had anything in
0:44:56 my heart towards him i just think the
0:44:58 way
0:44:58 you think about him shake his head yeah
0:45:01 yeah absolutely
0:45:12 he's a monster in his field the thing is
0:45:14 i just haven't even like
0:45:16 i don't personally watch videos that's
0:45:18 just me
0:45:19 the other one that i get sent i might
0:45:20 click on it but i'm just so
0:45:22 kind of like on this point i don't know
0:45:24 what she is
0:45:26 one of the top debaters in the muslim
0:45:29 world right now yeah
0:45:30 and he's got he's got stuff that you
0:45:31 would benefit from i'm sure he you've
0:45:33 got stuff he'd been
0:45:33 from and that's one of the biggest
0:45:35 tragedies in these things
0:45:36 both of you are working on different
0:45:37 lines of knowledge like you know
0:45:40 many people have been listening to you
0:45:41 now i'm thinking allah has memorized
0:45:42 many
0:45:43 you know aquael hadith you know
0:45:46 beautiful that's
0:45:47 that's that's something we're missing
0:45:48 because we don't necessarily focus on
0:45:50 these issues
0:45:51 but someone like on the other hand if
0:45:53 you want to hear about early christian
0:45:54 history if you want to hear about
0:45:56 indian history if you want to hear about
0:45:58 you know comparative religion if you
0:46:00 want to hear about you know all these
0:46:01 things
0:46:01 i mean and that's these are really like
0:46:05 important things i've heard he's got a
0:46:07 masters in
0:46:08 history oh yeah he's got a masters in
0:46:09 history degree a
0:46:11 master green history and it's not just
0:46:13 that he's been in the field for very
0:46:14 long he's got big collections
0:46:15 okay so i feel like that connection
0:46:18 between you and him
0:46:19 i'm just giving you an example
0:46:26 it would produce a lot more benefit for
0:46:28 thomas
0:46:29 like the fact that now you're not seeing
0:46:30 face to face in this
0:46:32 let me make this clear yeah not face to
0:46:34 face i actually dropped him
0:46:36 a number of messages if i'm not mistaken
0:46:39 on whatsapp i can't remember exactly
0:46:40 what it was
0:46:41 right but um i have nothing against him
0:46:44 i really don't
0:46:44 good i did try to come to a solution yes
0:46:47 with both parties yeah
0:46:49 okay about taking down the videos
0:46:52 because we've had this discussion before
0:46:53 right
0:46:54 that it doesn't look good it really
0:46:56 doesn't look good and
0:46:57 it didn't look like it was going to
0:46:59 materialize so i if anything
0:47:01 i try to arbitrate between both parties
0:47:03 to take some of these videos down
0:47:05 and um yeah beautiful i think you could
0:47:08 be
0:47:08 but uh but i can't remember the
0:47:11 exactness of it i really can't remember
0:47:12 the exactness of it
0:47:15 he's going to love you after this huh
0:47:18 no no i'll say good things about
0:47:20 everyone like you know i had rahman
0:47:21 hasan before you in this podcast right
0:47:22 so and
0:47:23 everyone who's look at the comments on
0:47:25 that video and people loved his
0:47:27 his his stuff likewise tower man you
0:47:29 know he's trying to stay
0:47:31 i'm trying to keep everyone happy you
0:47:32 know likewise you know a lot of his
0:47:34 videos before because he wasn't he was
0:47:35 in the tower
0:47:36 before i was and i saw some of his
0:47:38 videos you know some you know he's in
0:47:40 the street talking to the people and
0:47:41 you know in aid and all of these things
0:47:44 let us all be very fair here of what
0:47:46 imran is doing it's very very for the
0:47:48 youth today
0:47:50 i don't know anybody who's doing that
0:47:51 i'm telling you okay i've had brothers
0:47:54 i learned from his uh videos here you
0:47:55 know before i came in i saw some of his
0:47:57 videos
0:47:58 videos and masha allah some nice
0:47:59 techniques here some nice videos and the
0:48:01 way he talked to the youth and whatever
0:48:02 we all learn from each other i've had
0:48:04 brothers
0:48:04 who are on target this is when the penny
0:48:08 dropped to me
0:48:09 a brother on tag he's sitting on the
0:48:11 front row in my borough
0:48:12 class yes and he comes up to and he goes
0:48:15 is that
0:48:16 i need to leave it's like why because
0:48:18 i'm on tag i have to be honest
0:48:20 you see what i'm saying he's getting
0:48:21 through to people so he he's he's
0:48:23 getting like
0:48:24 a lot of these brothers into the masjid
0:48:25 some are becoming pull up they're going
0:48:27 out
0:48:28 seeking knowledge abroad and everything
0:48:30 yeah
0:48:31 it's very impressive it's fantastic if
0:48:32 like you know
0:48:34 if everyone just focuses on what they're
0:48:36 really like
0:48:37 for if you're a manager of a football
0:48:39 team and someone's a really great
0:48:41 striker i remember you used this example
0:48:42 in saudi arabia
0:48:43 yeah i thought it was someone's a really
0:48:45 good striker
0:48:46 i mean someone says okay you're a great
0:48:48 striker come here and be
0:48:49 a defender do you know what i mean it's
0:48:52 gonna
0:48:53 it's the comparative balance is the team
0:48:54 yeah yeah the competitive advantage is
0:48:56 lost in a sense right
0:48:58 so we know what amron is good at we know
0:49:00 what number she is good at
0:49:01 we know what you're good at we know what
0:49:02 i'm good at we know what everyone has
0:49:04 advantages at everyone knows why i'm
0:49:06 good at magic
0:49:16 so so you know if we're all working like
0:49:19 you know
0:49:19 that then it works beautifully it works
0:49:21 in a fantastic way and no one's trying
0:49:22 to take away from anyone else right
0:49:24 no one's and you know like like
0:49:28 i'm gonna maybe look into this right
0:49:29 right now i know he has a youtube
0:49:31 channel and everything
0:49:32 yes i've kind of haven't followed him on
0:49:34 what he knows
0:49:37 i don't know much about it like i can't
0:49:39 you know say anything bad about him yes
0:49:41 with regards to that like the only uh
0:49:44 one that i've kind of like really just
0:49:46 spoken about to was john fontaine
0:49:48 yes when we did the podcast and uh
0:49:51 you know what john fontaine is good at
0:49:53 right yeah
0:49:54 let's not leave anyone else yeah and he
0:49:58 said some good things about him i can't
0:50:00 speak bad about a person if i don't know
0:50:01 him no no i've been trying to see what
0:50:03 i'm saying i know him
0:50:03 yeah so i don't know much about him
0:50:08 right yeah yeah
0:50:14 when speaking about others it has to be
0:50:16 of justice and knowledge not with
0:50:18 ignorance
0:50:18 and unfairness and injustice right right
0:50:21 as this is the situation
0:50:22 he says that the people of innovation
0:50:23 speak like that exactly man exactly
0:50:26 so now let's move on to another
0:50:27 controversy which i've been involved in
0:50:29 unfortunately and put my hand in and
0:50:32 created my own sense of controversy is
0:50:34 um you also
0:50:35 had nothing to do as far as i know with
0:50:38 the the leaking
0:50:39 or of the emails and you want to make
0:50:42 that clear as well don't you
0:50:45 again first uh like i said earlier i'm
0:50:47 putting making that video or you didn't
0:50:48 endorse that did you
0:50:50 look again i was not consulted
0:50:53 beforehand
0:50:54 right as i mentioned before as well i'll
0:50:56 say explicitly now right
0:50:59 i only knew about a video just maybe
0:51:01 like a day or two before it was going
0:51:03 out that a video was coming up
0:51:06 i only ended up seeing the video after
0:51:08 it was released just like everybody else
0:51:10 right and i watched the video twice okay
0:51:13 and at the time things are happening
0:51:15 very very quickly very quickly right
0:51:18 and uh with regards to leaking of the
0:51:20 emails yes okay i
0:51:22 had i didn't even know that was
0:51:24 happening so another question i have
0:51:26 here is
0:51:27 did you have anything to do with leaking
0:51:29 emails or publicizing the lead material
0:51:31 okay like like i said before um i was
0:51:34 not consulted beforehand
0:51:35 i didn't even know what the content of
0:51:38 that video was
0:51:39 till it was actually released once it
0:51:42 was released
0:51:43 i saw it and uh i watched the video
0:51:46 okay uh thinking back on it now
0:51:50 was it a smart thing to do because i
0:51:52 heard imran's explanation now when he
0:51:54 was doing that video with sergey lip
0:51:56 was it a smart thing to do okay was it a
0:51:58 wise thing to do
0:51:59 because we know that a lot of doubt
0:52:03 uh has now hit the people's hearts right
0:52:06 and the general principle with regards
0:52:09 to um
0:52:10 spreading doubts and telling your
0:52:12 friends about it is
0:52:14 what suffered allah mentioned right
0:52:25 then let him not relate it to those who
0:52:26 sit around him
0:52:28 okay and let him not hit
0:52:40 the majority of the scholars of the self
0:52:43 and when we use the word salaf okay uh
0:52:46 what we're intending by the three golden
0:52:47 generations not people who are breathing
0:52:49 here today
0:52:50 the word has been tarnished the moment
0:52:52 you will use the word seller people
0:52:54 begin to think that it's referring to a
0:52:56 group of people okay
0:52:58 um we're speaking about the sahaba the
0:53:00 tabi in the table
0:53:01 i know the prophet saws
0:53:05 the best of his my generation those who
0:53:06 came out those who came after them right
0:53:08 so he says the majority of the salaf are
0:53:11 upon this tadeer
0:53:20 because the hearts are what weak and
0:53:23 that the
0:53:24 the doubt it really snatches a person it
0:53:27 can make you go haywire
0:53:29 because of that dao it could you see
0:53:30 what i'm saying
0:53:32 so now releasing emails and i've heard
0:53:35 what
0:53:35 imran's justification is i'm really just
0:53:37 still trying to
0:53:38 it's muslim it says
0:53:44 again like like i said here do you agree
0:53:46 with this kind of
0:53:47 though oh and do you think that the the
0:53:50 ones who came to this conclusion
0:53:55 what i can say is this is one of my
0:53:57 regrets right this is one of the regrets
0:53:58 that i have
0:53:59 sometimes men being involved in very
0:54:01 controversial issues
0:54:03 and things related to public safety and
0:54:05 public fear
0:54:08 uh
0:54:11 that i may have just like saw advice
0:54:14 from the elderly
0:54:16 okay you have to understand when this
0:54:18 video was going even if
0:54:19 i did have something to say about this
0:54:22 video being released
0:54:24 we're all in our twenties at that time i
0:54:27 think was like 27
0:54:28 imran really yeah mid-twenties
0:54:32 um myself are on the same age so
0:54:36 we're all in our 20s the poet he says
0:54:39 and you're going to like this line of
0:54:40 poetry
0:54:48 if there is an issue that only
0:54:49 youngsters are
0:54:51 pushing through or that they are
0:54:52 carrying
0:54:54 okay uh you're going to find a
0:54:57 deficiency in
0:54:59 that uh issue that they took onto
0:55:02 themselves right
0:55:04 so this issue now of making this video
0:55:06 that has some very great repercussions
0:55:08 right
0:55:09 which could put the people's hearts into
0:55:12 doubt
0:55:13 and again i'm not saying that his
0:55:14 justification is wrong or
0:55:16 the uh person which they had abdul
0:55:19 rahman made with regards to releasing
0:55:20 this video
0:55:22 i'm not even going into that at the
0:55:23 moment just thinking about it now
0:55:25 the least we can all agree on that
0:55:28 many scholars should have been you know
0:55:30 consulted
0:55:31 by leaking some of these emails where he
0:55:34 explicitly states that
0:55:35 having doubts about the preservation of
0:55:37 the quran or whatever have you
0:55:38 okay and maybe some of the elders maybe
0:55:40 and maybe a lot of that stuff
0:55:42 yeah i mean from michael with subsequent
0:55:44 conversations
0:55:45 uh i'm not gonna say they can have
0:55:46 context but i'm a more nuanced than that
0:55:49 and
0:55:50 and this is why it's very important
0:55:51 because it can be taken out of context
0:55:53 as well
0:55:54 it's more important that for someone and
0:55:56 this is very like you mentioned you
0:55:57 alluded to it is like hell magenta
0:56:00 um and this is the right so this is the
0:56:02 nas
0:56:04 and so even for me i was thinking uh i
0:56:06 you know i had discussion with you about
0:56:07 this before if this is the justification
0:56:09 you have muslim or let's say even in
0:56:12 this case
0:56:14 versus the
0:56:20 and so on that you have to keep private
0:56:22 information private
0:56:24 if you think that the muslim is is is
0:56:27 is there but then you have an us so
0:56:30 which which goes before i think i think
0:56:32 the discussion that he was bringing was
0:56:33 revolving around
0:56:35 him
0:56:39 now spreading some of this information
0:56:41 is email is something that is bad
0:56:44 right okay and the problem is
0:56:47 yeah later on bring this out subtly
0:56:51 to the people in his lectures again it's
0:56:53 something that is problematic
0:56:55 so he was coming from the angle of the
0:56:57 lesser retrieval the issue is we don't
0:56:58 know what he's going to come up with
0:56:59 and and still it could be in development
0:57:01 yeah i i fully understand
0:57:02 i fully understand but then they use as
0:57:04 a justification what he did with
0:57:06 juju yeah about the whole zombie thing
0:57:09 again it's not something as you just
0:57:11 mentioned now it's not qatari that he's
0:57:13 going to do this
0:57:14 it's not even that it's not that your
0:57:16 understanding of what he thinks is what
0:57:18 it was what the understanding is
0:57:20 you could definitely say that you could
0:57:21 definitely say that but as you mentioned
0:57:23 there is no source which speak about
0:57:25 what you call it
0:57:26 preserving the the the secrets of the
0:57:29 people even that narration i mentioned
0:57:30 earlier
0:57:36 what does it mean like secrets being
0:57:38 revealed to the people right
0:57:40 one thing that really touched me is this
0:57:42 narration i'm going to mention in a
0:57:43 moment but before that the messiah
0:57:45 says
0:57:50 if somebody you know tells you something
0:57:52 and then he begins to look
0:57:54 you get indications that this is a
0:57:56 secret yeah of course this isn't a man
0:57:58 it's a trust but look at this narration
0:58:01 right
0:58:04 he said um
0:58:16 and he sent me to go and do something
0:58:20 and i ended up becoming late my mom was
0:58:23 waiting for me and i was late right
0:58:25 so when i came home he she asked him
0:58:29 why was you late he said
0:58:32 he was in some
0:58:40 what did he ask you to do ana malek
0:58:44 responded back and he said
0:58:46 this is a secret look at her response
0:58:50 and allah i think every single one of us
0:58:52 can take really just
0:58:54 um inspiration and a lesson from this
0:58:57 right
0:59:09 now comes in a negative context in
0:59:10 arabic language indicates
0:59:12 generality what do we do as muslims
0:59:15 someone told us something the first
0:59:17 people that we tell is what the wives
0:59:20 my wife is not with an s but
0:59:23 we tell the wife okay here it's i said
0:59:25 nobody
0:59:27 we might tell our close ones every
0:59:29 friend has a friend right and
0:59:32 um every friend has a friend
0:59:35 and you know what tends to happen say
0:59:36 well you're not gonna tell anyone
0:59:38 and he goes to someone else say well
0:59:40 he's not gonna tell anyone and he goes
0:59:41 to someone else
0:59:42 i can before you know where that secret
0:59:44 is turned into chinese whispers while
0:59:46 the name of allah is being used in vain
0:59:48 so this is the assal okay this is the
0:59:51 assad with regards to discussions that
0:59:52 happen in privately
0:59:54 in private but that particular issue as
0:59:56 to whether this is something that is
0:59:57 justified because the lesser of the two
0:59:59 evils
1:00:02 on this scale thinking about it in
1:00:05 hindsight
1:00:07 which involves the religion of people to
1:00:10 be doubted
1:00:13 because at that time i was told that a
1:00:15 series of refutations or clarifications
1:00:17 are going to be made with regards to
1:00:19 the leaking of the emails which i didn't
1:00:21 which
1:00:22 didn't happen but now um
1:00:25 when you did that video with uh startup
1:00:28 i don't know whether he clarified
1:00:29 everything or he's planning to clarify i
1:00:31 still haven't watched it i mean the
1:00:32 thing is like i said
1:00:33 before i'm i've i've spoken to you
1:00:35 myself
1:00:36 and and the stuff is that he is
1:00:39 constantly reviewing
1:00:40 and reading and changing and
1:00:44 you know what i mean so that's why i
1:00:45 think this is very important
1:00:47 if something is to be refuted publicly
1:00:49 it has to be said publicly
1:00:51 and and that's why it's very dangerous
1:00:53 for someone
1:00:54 to to challenge that which is private
1:00:58 privately uh publicly and vice versa
1:01:02 but i think we agree on this point yeah
1:01:03 and i think at the end of the day again
1:01:05 it goes back to that same point i
1:01:06 mentioned earlier
1:01:08 that sometimes it's best to take
1:01:10 sensitive issues back to the elders
1:01:12 scholars exactly every scholar has
1:01:14 somebody that he goes back to
1:01:16 okay so do you think there was too much
1:01:19 kind of issue had been done
1:01:20 by the group members yeah maybe so okay
1:01:22 something very powerful that i want to
1:01:23 mention with regards to what even hasn't
1:01:24 mentioned
1:01:25 right and i really just wish that in the
1:01:27 past that i acted upon it
1:01:29 he said
1:01:33 how beautiful is silence in very
1:01:35 sensitive issues
1:01:44 how often have we seen people who are
1:01:46 destroyed because of what they say with
1:01:47 their tongues
1:01:48 but we've never seen anybody who who's
1:01:51 destroyed himself because he was silent
1:01:55 so these issues i just kind of sometimes
1:01:58 wish that
1:02:00 um i may not have what you call it
1:02:04 partake or partook
1:02:07 in any of them and um even now
1:02:10 subhanallah this video that i was making
1:02:13 i consulted a lot of the elders uh
1:02:16 there's a number of them they they don't
1:02:18 agree like they're not with they clearly
1:02:20 explicitly like
1:02:21 osama uh stevenson who runs medina
1:02:24 college i think you've met him before
1:02:26 right
1:02:27 and other brothers as well but i thought
1:02:28 their permission to maybe mention their
1:02:30 names and they said
1:02:31 just leave out like even they clearly
1:02:34 stated that they don't have anything to
1:02:37 do with the dawah of
1:02:38 dr haytham they don't agree with his
1:02:40 views and the stances that he's taken
1:02:42 while at the same time they said to me
1:02:44 that was oppression man
1:02:47 that thing that was said about dr
1:02:48 haytham and the way he was made to look
1:02:50 out
1:02:51 it wasn't it wasn't you know with
1:02:53 himself really wasn't with fairness
1:02:56 you know so um even though they've got
1:02:59 nothing to do they don't have
1:03:00 cooperation with dr haitham and they're
1:03:02 still saying
1:03:03 this particular thing and this goes back
1:03:05 to what i mentioned earlier
1:03:06 if you're a real sunni a person who's
1:03:08 following the truth and
1:03:10 upon the guidance of the seraph if
1:03:12 you're going to refuse somebody has to
1:03:13 be with ill
1:03:14 and he
1:03:22 justice is that you weigh your opponents
1:03:25 huh with the same bold that you weigh
1:03:28 yourself with
1:03:28 meaning you treat the people the same
1:03:30 way you like to be treated
1:03:33 i mean there is even more isn't it
1:03:40 even if it is against yourselves and
1:03:42 your parents and um
1:03:44 well you know what something that really
1:03:45 touched me was um
1:03:48 the way ebeneutemia was with his enemies
1:03:53 his student he mentioned his madaja
1:03:55 salikin right
1:04:10 some of his own friends mentioned i wish
1:04:13 i could treat my friends
1:04:15 the same way that ibrutimya can treat
1:04:17 his enemies
1:04:19 or the same way entertainment treats his
1:04:20 enemies and his opponents
1:04:23 right i mean i thought we had a
1:04:24 different approach to me remember that
1:04:26 me
1:04:26 yeah why i i i i i read something in
1:04:29 this
1:04:29 um you're saying
1:04:32 i wish you being tamiya was a little bit
1:04:34 more uh
1:04:36 yeah yeah yeah a little bit more calm
1:04:39 with his enemies or something like that
1:04:40 yeah
1:04:40 i don't want to rescue him yeah but even
1:04:43 subhan look at this other incident right
1:04:45 and we're just defending him in the team
1:04:47 you're here um
1:05:04 i came to give him the good news that
1:05:06 one of his greatest
1:05:08 enemies had just passed away look what
1:05:11 his response was
1:05:17 he told me off he showed his unhappiness
1:05:20 to
1:05:20 me giving him this good news and he said
1:05:26 look what he did he ran to his house
1:05:30 and he said to his family today
1:05:34 i'm going to take the same place that
1:05:36 your father had
1:05:37 anything that you guys need from me that
1:05:39 today is like
1:05:40 yeah man what is that with us
1:05:45 so this guy let's get straight he goes
1:05:50 i'm going to take his place anything you
1:05:51 guys um
1:05:55 see that can be taken another way i
1:05:57 guess
1:06:01 treat your enemies a bit you know yes
1:06:03 yes treat them a bit nicely
1:06:04 so a question i want to personally ask
1:06:06 you know because you've brought that up
1:06:07 and we had to be fair right
1:06:09 um do you think it was a good idea to
1:06:12 bring
1:06:12 dr yasser like with a lot of these
1:06:15 doubts that are surrounding him and some
1:06:17 of these issues that he's having
1:06:19 okay and ask him some of these questions
1:06:22 i think so because
1:06:23 because now the christians are partying
1:06:25 what i've seen in my own eyes
1:06:27 they're commenting on different videos
1:06:28 i've been sent screenshots do you think
1:06:30 it was a good idea i think to be honest
1:06:31 the idea for me to ask him those very
1:06:33 specific questions
1:06:35 were was a bad idea and because i'll
1:06:37 tell you why it's a bad idea not because
1:06:39 there should be any reason why
1:06:40 christians missionaries or
1:06:42 evangelists should be it's a bad idea
1:06:44 because we were talking about complex
1:06:45 issues
1:06:46 and this suffer had no idea what we
1:06:49 were even trying to communicate and they
1:06:51 did distort what he was saying and he
1:06:53 put out a public statement saying i
1:06:54 don't agree with what you're saying it's
1:06:55 very important by the way
1:06:57 he did this to me i don't think i saw it
1:06:58 no no he put it on facebook he said
1:07:00 whatever you're saying i believe the
1:07:01 quran is preserved a hundred percent and
1:07:03 you know well he he refuted that but
1:07:05 me asking him very specific questions
1:07:08 like if i give you a mushaf and
1:07:09 uh would it be exactly what the prophet
1:07:13 now
1:07:14 i know he has a view which is that's not
1:07:16 the case that's
1:07:17 traditional view and it would be a mix
1:07:19 of the like he said on the podcast it
1:07:20 would be a mix of
1:07:22 which really to us is not problematic
1:07:23 view right if it's a if he's
1:07:25 if we extend obviously if he's if you're
1:07:28 saying there's more
1:07:29 things that he's saying that could be
1:07:30 problematic we have to see that publicly
1:07:32 right because it hasn't come with that
1:07:33 publicly yet
1:07:34 but that what he said in the podcast
1:07:37 yeah
1:07:37 was not anything near kufr what he said
1:07:40 in the
1:07:40 in the podcast was nothing free or or
1:07:44 it was just something which was you know
1:07:46 how he was being
1:07:47 he was being charitable right and
1:07:49 because he
1:07:50 like he like he said the thing he's got
1:07:52 this kind of academic hat that he puts
1:07:53 on right
1:07:54 so he put the academic hat on and he's
1:07:56 speaking charitably right and speaking
1:07:58 honestly
1:07:59 and that honesty and that charitable
1:08:02 speech
1:08:02 which is actually i've been looking at
1:08:04 these messiah illinois
1:08:05 it's been misconstrued by them and has
1:08:08 been taken out of context by them and
1:08:09 they see as a reason to celebrate like
1:08:11 you said
1:08:11 which is totally bartender false and so
1:08:14 i think from that angle asking them
1:08:16 those very technical specific questions
1:08:18 was totally for me the wrong thing to do
1:08:21 especially knowing that there could be a
1:08:22 potential he could answer in that
1:08:24 controversial way because he started to
1:08:26 cut you but
1:08:27 remember when i mentioned earlier um
1:08:29 what suffered he says
1:08:32 whoever he is in innovation i think you
1:08:35 know these doubts and these
1:08:36 the way he's kind of putting it for me
1:08:40 right i don't hear anything for me do
1:08:42 you see what i'm saying so
1:08:43 i was asking him and obviously what he
1:08:46 came with was something
1:08:47 which the the articulation was
1:08:49 misconstrued by these people because he
1:08:50 was speaking charitably speaking in an
1:08:52 academic way i mean and and i think he
1:08:54 needs to kind of think about
1:08:56 the way he puts things across 100 that's
1:08:59 something he'll look at i'm
1:09:00 100 sure we'll all look at the thing is
1:09:03 my
1:09:03 my platform that we're speaking from now
1:09:05 everything has to be watertight because
1:09:08 who is going to be the first person
1:09:09 that's watching i know people are
1:09:10 watching it now that are going to be
1:09:11 non-muslims not only that by enemies of
1:09:12 islam
1:09:13 now he's if you're speaking in the
1:09:14 university right which is used to do it
1:09:16 as a professor you're not going to speak
1:09:18 in the same way in a political
1:09:20 water type way where you're going to
1:09:21 speak in a little bit more relaxed way
1:09:22 you're going to have a more
1:09:23 more nuanced approach
1:09:26 let's say for this because these people
1:09:30 are ready to take anything out of your
1:09:32 so i get this point yeah and i think
1:09:33 he's everyone's learning from this but
1:09:36 i remember for me i have to take
1:09:37 responsibility for my own my what my own
1:09:39 actions are
1:09:40 i shouldn't have asked the doctor
1:09:43 i should have asked him a question
1:09:45 specifically about
1:09:47 something very technical to a lay
1:09:48 audience which i know he has
1:09:51 opinions which which i'm not going to
1:09:54 say are controversial
1:09:55 i'm going to say are anti-normative in
1:09:58 many aspects or some things which are
1:10:00 not
1:10:01 completely in line with the traditional
1:10:02 view you see what i mean
1:10:04 so i should not ask him that question
1:10:06 especially before he hasn't even
1:10:07 published anything about it
1:10:09 the the classical view let's call it the
1:10:11 view of the quran let's say
1:10:13 so so that's it uh and and um
1:10:16 the fact that you're i think that's
1:10:18 jason i think that that i really regret
1:10:19 that actually yeah
1:10:20 asking him because not only regret on
1:10:22 the on on on the front that
1:10:24 um i asked him that question he answered
1:10:26 in the way that he did yeah which was
1:10:27 charitable and all that
1:10:29 but also because of the the the way in
1:10:31 which
1:10:32 it's been manipulated and distorted
1:10:35 the consequences of it i personally feel
1:10:38 like
1:10:39 that could have been avoided if i had
1:10:40 not asked that question and i'll take
1:10:41 responsibility for that hmm
1:10:44 yeah yeah so on these
1:10:48 like i i always tell brothers this right
1:10:50 and i'm the first person to advise
1:10:52 myself
1:10:53 something like mentioned right so
1:11:07 indeed just speaking in a very general
1:11:09 way sometimes
1:11:10 what does it cause without clarification
1:11:12 what does it cause it causes
1:11:14 the minds of the people to become very
1:11:15 messed up yeah
1:11:17 and also i mean some people can take
1:11:20 what you say
1:11:21 and distort it but once again of course
1:11:23 you can't just always shut up every type
1:11:25 of
1:11:26 enemy that comes at you but the most you
1:11:28 can do is just kind of like
1:11:30 but what i want the muslims to realize
1:11:31 about this right
1:11:33 is that causing this is very important
1:11:37 attacking yes on this point
1:11:41 is not a good idea okay attacking him
1:11:45 is is a fitna attacking his view that he
1:11:48 hasn't even publicized is a fitna
1:11:50 because it will make them reaffirm
1:11:53 their narratives or he's talking about
1:11:55 preservation not once that he mentioned
1:11:57 present by the way the word preservation
1:11:59 i don't think once he mentioned he was
1:12:00 talking about that's what he was talking
1:12:02 about
1:12:02 so and they they've marketed it as
1:12:04 preservation of quran which is different
1:12:07 and what i want the muslims to realize
1:12:08 is that okay if he comes out with a bath
1:12:10 with a research which is against the
1:12:11 quran whatever there will be majel there
1:12:14 will be a space
1:12:15 for refutation of that bath in an
1:12:16 academic way
1:12:18 if there's something that people
1:12:19 disagree with but attacking
1:12:21 only affirms the distorted narratives of
1:12:24 the
1:12:25 these christians and yeah and the quran
1:12:26 says
1:12:29 you know this is very important when
1:12:30 harun came back uh samus came back
1:12:33 and harun was there
1:12:35 [Music]
1:12:40 do not make me uh do not make the enemy
1:12:43 open for me right in a sense
1:12:44 because you think about it the way he's
1:12:46 looked at in the west
1:12:48 the way he's looked at in the west the
1:12:50 guy with the academics the guy who's
1:12:51 seen as the
1:12:52 one of the leading figures in the west
1:12:54 right if you make him look like
1:12:56 that he has got doubts about the quran
1:12:59 yeah why would you okay
1:13:00 yeah is going to just come down like
1:13:08 is strongly connected to right in many
1:13:10 different parts of the world right
1:13:12 right if tomorrow and may allah is
1:13:15 saving from this
1:13:16 starts having doubts somehow imagine the
1:13:18 repercussion he would have
1:13:19 yeah i'm not saying he's on the same
1:13:20 level or even he has that kind of impact
1:13:23 that he has in the west but imagine that
1:13:26 repercussion that will happen
1:13:27 exactly yeah you see what i'm saying so
1:13:28 i think that we have to be very careful
1:13:30 with these missiles
1:13:31 and i think that people from all sides
1:13:33 the quran is something which unifies
1:13:34 jamie sorry
1:13:40 right here and they take the ayah i'm
1:13:43 talking about the fork of islam
1:13:44 not the ones
1:13:59 this is the quran that we are much more
1:14:00 ali we have
1:14:02 ishmael so this if we if we're talking
1:14:05 about something which everybody
1:14:07 all of the people ashari athari um
1:14:12 all of them all of these have agreed
1:14:13 upon what the quran is
1:14:16 from the beginning to the end of the
1:14:17 book so
1:14:19 now these individuals want to make this
1:14:21 very important they want to make it seem
1:14:22 as if there's
1:14:25 a quran what is the quran we can't allow
1:14:28 them
1:14:28 because for a thousand foundries there's
1:14:29 no khilafana we know what the
1:14:32 yeah we know what the we know what the
1:14:35 we don't know exactly what a specific
1:14:36 notion
1:14:36 but we know what the the idea is
1:14:38 variation yeah
1:14:40 we know all of these things and so to
1:14:42 for them to to to
1:14:43 to come in and and speak in that manner
1:14:45 we cannot allow that
1:14:47 uh and then using one of the dua to
1:14:49 whatever we say
1:14:51 yes his status in the west
1:14:54 especially on academic level is is very
1:14:57 high
1:14:58 so so in terms of influence whatever
1:14:59 your view on quality is or
1:15:01 or yes whatever your view on him is
1:15:04 he's still listed in if you like the 500
1:15:07 most influential muslims in the world
1:15:08 he's still got he's done what he's done
1:15:10 so it doesn't make sense to have a harsh
1:15:12 approach with him and to count a
1:15:14 cancelling approach to him and
1:15:15 it doesn't work like this we have to
1:15:16 have a nuanced approach and wait for the
1:15:18 publications
1:15:19 and and then deal with accordingly i
1:15:21 think this is what we need to do
1:15:22 would you agree with this yeah of course
1:15:24 yeah so if he basically came out like
1:15:26 i'm just asking you this right if he
1:15:28 came out and
1:15:29 some of the things had you know uh
1:15:31 problematic things inside of it
1:15:33 yeah um you wouldn't have a problem just
1:15:35 coming out just literally
1:15:37 i would have i would have a problem
1:15:39 refuting what that is that he's saying
1:15:41 you know what i'm saying i'm not me
1:15:42 personally do a knuckle of those who
1:15:44 have said like if i if i disagree with
1:15:46 dr i'll tell him directly i'll say
1:15:47 listen this this doesn't make sense what
1:15:49 you're saying oh this doesn't make sense
1:15:50 what you're saying
1:15:51 i have no problem with that another
1:15:52 question i want to ask you is about
1:15:54 this kind of cancer culture people
1:15:57 cancelling people out because of
1:15:58 association guilty by association
1:16:01 so they do a tab dia maybe from their
1:16:03 own volition without the consultation of
1:16:05 the scholar
1:16:05 and then they'll say whoever's
1:16:07 associated with this person who's
1:16:09 themselves as an innovator and this just
1:16:12 causes division like unnecessary
1:16:14 division
1:16:14 and it's untenable in the ummah having
1:16:17 said this now
1:16:18 what is your stance on this if for
1:16:20 example i would if you were to see
1:16:22 uh if i were to see you could i see you
1:16:23 in in a mosque which is potentially like
1:16:26 a diobandy mosque
1:16:27 or even uh brelvi mosque or something
1:16:31 do you see an issue with
1:16:34 um doing higher doing good in places
1:16:37 spaces which are not especially or
1:16:39 specifically selfie spaces
1:16:41 or do you think that there's a more
1:16:42 sophisticated approach to this i think
1:16:44 this question can be
1:16:45 maybe uh answered in two parts right the
1:16:48 first part is
1:16:50 um going to the masajid
1:16:54 of those individuals who might not
1:16:56 supposedly be upon the sunnah right
1:16:59 i wrote an article in 2015
1:17:03 okay and i gave you the worst title
1:17:06 possible
1:17:07 the permissibility of going to the
1:17:09 message of the
1:17:11 the people of innovation right because
1:17:13 what was happening at the time was
1:17:16 there was this group of people who were
1:17:19 blasting individuals who are trying to
1:17:20 quote the sunnah simply because he went
1:17:22 to this masjid
1:17:24 and that message isn't necessarily even
1:17:26 seen as
1:17:27 a messy that propagates innovation they
1:17:29 might just have tendencies because of
1:17:32 culture and where they came back where
1:17:34 they came from back home right
1:17:37 so the moment a brother goes there pdfs
1:17:40 are being put together
1:17:41 putting his picture and then someone
1:17:43 else's picture a previous speaker came
1:17:44 there
1:17:45 and then this message what they've done
1:17:46 or whatever have you
1:17:48 it was kind of becoming a bit of a
1:17:49 pandemic right okay
1:17:52 the moment a brother goes through that
1:17:54 message he's being labeled straight away
1:17:56 and um i put this article together like
1:18:01 as a as a defense for some of our
1:18:03 brothers who were being ripped apart
1:18:05 even scholars were being ripped apart
1:18:07 because of this particular issue
1:18:08 he went to this message that that means
1:18:10 that he's associated with them he's with
1:18:12 them
1:18:14 this article that uh also my brother
1:18:16 said
1:18:18 we put it together and we translated
1:18:22 some of the
1:18:22 aqua of the scholars and in this
1:18:26 pdf we had the likes of uh
1:18:30 saying that's even permissible to go
1:18:32 into a church and give the hour there
1:18:34 and you also had uh uh
1:18:37 right yeah who went to the tijani and he
1:18:42 gave dawa in their masjid and
1:18:43 whatever have you who was there yeah
1:18:47 yeah so you have him doing that you have
1:18:49 i remember i also
1:18:50 saw affect
1:18:56 he had a similar effect with this and so
1:18:58 many other scholars i try to keep it as
1:19:00 neutral as possible by bringing
1:19:02 you know the statements of the scholars
1:19:04 right uh from both sides
1:19:07 yeah you had even
1:19:11 if you just think about it for a moment
1:19:14 northern yemen was all shiites
1:19:18 right he was by himself he was like his
1:19:20 80 right
1:19:21 who left to saudi arabia studying
1:19:23 university took a masters from there
1:19:26 and and he came back to give da'wah
1:19:28 subhan allah
1:19:29 like we can actually say that
1:19:32 uh jamaica islamia the university of
1:19:34 medina
1:19:35 they have a big father over the people
1:19:37 of yemen because they taught him
1:19:39 he came back he took on the methodology
1:19:42 of the
1:19:43 sunnah right and he started giving
1:19:45 da'wah and that whole province is shiite
1:19:49 subhanallah i even had stories from some
1:19:50 of my masha's saying that
1:19:52 shaykh mobile used to be in the masjid
1:19:55 and he would say oh you believe
1:19:59 and there would only be one person there
1:20:02 and then
1:20:02 one time that individual came up to the
1:20:05 sheikh and he said to him
1:20:06 why do you keep saying because this is
1:20:10 what plural right
1:20:11 i'm only one person maybe the angels are
1:20:13 there
1:20:14 because i'm only by myself so the sheikh
1:20:17 would go
1:20:18 out to their marketplaces he would be
1:20:19 giving dawa to them
1:20:21 so much so that what happened many
1:20:23 people started becoming sunnis
1:20:26 and the congregation started increasing
1:20:28 but the share would be going out to them
1:20:31 even my own shaykh abdul hamid he used
1:20:34 to specifically this is like
1:20:36 maybe in the last 20 years he used to go
1:20:39 out to the masajid of the shia and he
1:20:42 would speak about the virtues of alibaba
1:20:46 he's got nothing to do with shiaism
1:20:48 right he would grab the mic and as soon
1:20:51 as he grabs the mic you can see the
1:20:52 congregation getting worked out they
1:20:53 want to do something to him
1:20:55 he will say the reminder inshallah will
1:20:57 be after the sunnah prayer
1:20:59 on the virtues of every time they would
1:21:00 cool down a bit i heard this in my own
1:21:02 ears
1:21:05 and he would then start speaking about
1:21:06 the virtues
1:21:12 whoever
1:21:24 so he's propagating the sunnah while at
1:21:28 the same time he's using ali namit
1:21:30 to speak about the issue they are
1:21:31 involved in you see what i'm saying
1:21:34 so so much hair came out of it they they
1:21:36 even said if this is a
1:21:37 sunnah then anytime come you know
1:21:42 so um like ahi this is i don't want to
1:21:44 say unanimous agreement from the
1:21:46 scholars
1:21:47 um but there is so many statements so
1:21:50 many statements
1:21:51 from the scholars saying so the idea
1:21:53 that we can even put the
1:21:54 article under the video right yeah i
1:21:57 wrote this you're saying
1:21:58 you're saying that you're talking about
1:22:01 um
1:22:02 people being associated with people of
1:22:05 different
1:22:06 understandings him going there giving a
1:22:08 lecture
1:22:09 propagating whatever he needs to
1:22:10 propagate and i'm not talking about
1:22:11 compromising
1:22:12 you know sometimes what happens the
1:22:13 person comes and he's compromising the
1:22:16 innovation he might even go as far as
1:22:18 like acting like it's perfectly fine so
1:22:20 it's like talent
1:22:22 okay when
1:22:37 uh and i always mention this right that
1:22:40 cooperation can be in a
1:22:43 way where sometimes the government
1:22:47 they need everybody to come over from
1:22:48 different groups
1:22:50 they've got issues related to the
1:22:52 massage they need signatures
1:22:54 okay this is now a form of cooperation
1:22:56 of course
1:22:58 you're not compromising you're not
1:22:59 compromising your religion you're going
1:23:00 because
1:23:01 that person you're not mixing exactly
1:23:04 right
1:23:04 that person who works in the government
1:23:07 he looks at all of you guys and you guys
1:23:09 are the same he don't care
1:23:11 huh and um all you guys are coming
1:23:14 together
1:23:15 you guys need to attend that meeting you
1:23:17 need to sign
1:23:18 whatever paper you guys need to sign and
1:23:20 you have to show a united front
1:23:22 on that issue so that's one form of
1:23:26 tower
1:23:27 and there is nothing wrong with that
1:23:28 because there is a bigger
1:23:30 facet at stake here of course imagine
1:23:32 all the massages if you don't come to
1:23:34 this meaning all the messiah gonna be
1:23:35 closed down
1:23:36 or there's issues related to hijab or
1:23:38 whatever have you
1:23:39 and what's being taught in the schools
1:23:40 to our youngsters you're gonna attend
1:23:42 right i've attended that in the past as
1:23:44 well yeah but then you have
1:23:46 cooperation on a dower level is this
1:23:48 possible muhammad
1:23:50 let's be fair here right i'm calling to
1:23:52 talk i'm calling to the sunnah
1:23:54 and you've got a guy next to me sitting
1:23:56 on the same panel he's calling to bid
1:23:58 and he's calling to it's okay for you
1:24:00 not to call on to the messenger
1:24:02 when you visit his grave when you go to
1:24:03 medina
1:24:06 these are two opposites that um they
1:24:09 just don't come together right
1:24:11 and this kind of cooperation of course
1:24:13 is battle this is now
1:24:15 look next thing with i'll tell you a
1:24:17 story okay
1:24:18 of my own self um when i was doing
1:24:22 some postgraduate research in uh
1:24:25 so as university okay and there was one
1:24:29 lecturer that i had who was who was
1:24:32 lecturing you yeah he's appear he's a
1:24:33 phd holder and
1:24:34 i'm not going to mention his name well
1:24:36 he's basically
1:24:38 in my opinion as in dick okay i know
1:24:40 that's a very harsh statement to make
1:24:41 but he's basically
1:24:44 any no explain to people he's a heretic
1:24:47 yeah yeah it's something that takes you
1:24:50 out of the face
1:24:51 of islam okay so he was spouting that on
1:24:53 a daily basis okay
1:24:55 and he was just disguising him in
1:24:58 islamic jogging and stuff like that
1:24:59 was he like a non-muslim or was he like
1:25:01 a muslim he was a muslim name
1:25:02 he claimed to islam he has an appearance
1:25:06 okay now remember the cluster we were in
1:25:09 was can was a mix of muslims and
1:25:12 non-muslims
1:25:13 so there's this is a dao thing right in
1:25:15 a sense because when he's now making
1:25:18 that all the muslims agree upon okay
1:25:21 it's upon us the people in the class who
1:25:24 were a mix they were selfies in the
1:25:26 class there were dear band in their
1:25:27 class and they were braves in the class
1:25:29 yeah all three were in that class it's
1:25:31 upon us
1:25:32 to show united front so that the
1:25:34 non-muslims can see this is something
1:25:36 outside of anything that any muslim has
1:25:37 ever said does that make sense
1:25:39 so clearly um in that situation it's a
1:25:43 kind of town
1:25:44 it was mutual it wasn't even something
1:25:46 which we all came together and said
1:25:48 let's sign a document of town or
1:25:49 something like that but it was just that
1:25:51 yeah i agree with what he's saying here
1:25:53 yeah i agree with
1:25:54 and this is a kind of town okay in a
1:25:56 sense and
1:25:58 what i'm trying to say is that it's
1:25:59 always contextual that the person who is
1:26:01 brotherhood might believe in this
1:26:03 yeah he might believe in this it's just
1:26:04 like a sultan and many of the big
1:26:06 scholars did right and they had to
1:26:07 will for us
1:26:15 and no one's kicking them but when you
1:26:16 say muhammad is not always what you call
1:26:18 it
1:26:38 many of the big scholars of islam
1:26:39 because no one's taking the sukky of
1:26:41 the fault of islam he's written big
1:26:44 uh usually attracts and so on well i'm
1:26:47 saying well i'm not trying to say that
1:26:48 let's
1:26:49 let's mix that right yeah but what i'm
1:26:50 saying is that that's yak there
1:26:52 it was mutually understood by almost
1:26:54 everybody in that class
1:26:56 just just unfortunately
1:26:59 that we need to back each other on these
1:27:01 because this huju mat
1:27:03 are bigger than this it's actually
1:27:06 bigger because
1:27:06 you're putting it into the quran and to
1:27:08 complete this repeat you put in the
1:27:09 the prophet was being in question all of
1:27:13 these things
1:27:14 this is it's a battle between a man and
1:27:16 kufr like in the clearest and
1:27:18 non wheelie sense the people the
1:27:20 brothers and uh
1:27:22 and sisters because they are muslims
1:27:23 that they argue for is from the
1:27:25 background or for whatever polemically
1:27:27 they do so within the paradigm and this
1:27:29 is very important
1:27:31 i'm not saying it's justified well we
1:27:32 agree of course
1:27:34 but what i'm saying is that they still
1:27:36 cling to hadith and they still work
1:27:37 there
1:27:38 they still took quran sunnah you get it
1:27:39 they still they have the paradigm
1:27:41 these people yeah the same right in a
1:27:46 sense
1:27:46 you could argue that before i think
1:27:48 people might not understand that word
1:27:50 you know maybe a reference
1:27:51 so so we take our religion from the
1:27:52 sexual references all the same
1:27:54 whereas the progressives and this also
1:27:57 progressive muslims as a whole
1:27:59 like i can even mention them by name and
1:28:01 naimy i think his name is
1:28:02 um amino dude and these individuals
1:28:05 they've left the paradigm
1:28:06 okay and this is in these spaces and
1:28:09 this is a space that i think many people
1:28:10 endow i'm not
1:28:11 not aware of the academic space this is
1:28:13 the battle the battle is between the
1:28:14 progressives and the traditionalists
1:28:16 and they put traditionalists all in one
1:28:18 box like for us the salafis and the
1:28:19 braves and the abandons they don't care
1:28:21 about that
1:28:22 because they're tackling the core of
1:28:25 religion because the thing is what they
1:28:26 want to change
1:28:28 they want to change our morals do you
1:28:30 see the point and
1:28:31 by and large that the brelvin and the
1:28:34 obama and the salafi all three of them
1:28:36 have this very similar um
1:28:40 practices they'll pray five times a day
1:28:42 they'll wear their cab there
1:28:43 make sure you're a bit specific because
1:28:44 you could talk not talking about i'm not
1:28:46 talking about stephan here but i'm
1:28:47 talking about
1:28:48 visible practices like a salazar
1:28:52 yeah i've got hajj and so on yeah and
1:28:54 even haram take this masala away of
1:28:57 of uh which this clear disagreement no
1:29:00 one's going to
1:29:00 no one's going to lie about that any
1:29:01 things that are basically above the
1:29:03 surface that yeah
1:29:04 like for example exactly yeah yeah so
1:29:07 visible practices
1:29:08 so for them i mean do you think that
1:29:10 yani this progressive muslims or those
1:29:12 who put them in their place who the
1:29:13 i would call them the colonial masters
1:29:15 they don't they don't care
1:29:17 if you believe in this to be honest
1:29:20 they all they want to do is they change
1:29:23 now i'm not suggesting this is not an
1:29:24 important topic
1:29:25 okay i really am not suggesting i want
1:29:27 to make this very clear i'm not
1:29:28 suggesting that there should not be
1:29:29 those debates and those
1:29:31 uh refutations because we're talking
1:29:32 about islam
1:29:34 yeah yeah yeah someone believes so
1:29:38 this is something which we're not
1:29:39 compromising one at all yeah very clear
1:29:41 yeah
1:29:41 however we need to know which yani where
1:29:44 to where where to position the
1:29:46 the gun in the sense that in in in the
1:29:49 different cases and in situations you
1:29:51 find yourself in so
1:29:52 in this in this case i'm talking about
1:29:53 my specific experience here in
1:29:55 in the universities like when they when
1:29:58 you're
1:29:58 questioning the existence of prophet
1:30:00 muhammad the existence or
1:30:02 they even existed the the quran is
1:30:06 there and this is a combination of this
1:30:07 and now we have to
1:30:10 sorry but that is actually that's more
1:30:12 of an issue we have to tackle this
1:30:13 first because the kafir who's listening
1:30:15 to or the muslims listening to it
1:30:17 is going to think well why do i need to
1:30:20 join this religion in the first place
1:30:21 they won't even get into the discussion
1:30:23 phase two of okay
1:30:24 what's the hadith say about them
1:30:28 and so on you know what i mean they
1:30:30 don't care about that and they don't
1:30:31 know about that because their master
1:30:32 is completely different so we have to
1:30:33 bring them into the fold first then have
1:30:34 the discussions
1:30:36 so that's why i feel like when we when
1:30:38 we say dawah we have to be specific
1:30:39 because
1:30:40 it's there are forms of dawah where even
1:30:43 like you just said like for example
1:30:46 or um sex education in the schools do
1:30:50 you think they'll say salafi
1:30:51 let's come in uh something that is uh
1:30:54 attacking the united front it does
1:30:56 require united front and so long as
1:30:58 someone
1:30:59 someone who is claiming to be a muslim
1:31:01 they can they can work together
1:31:02 other muslims on it even shia and sunni
1:31:05 even sunni
1:31:06 there's some issues that that the it is
1:31:09 for both
1:31:10 halal me for example right in a school
1:31:12 you work in the school for example
1:31:14 this guy i'm not going to cooperate with
1:31:15 him because he's a shiite and that would
1:31:17 be
1:31:18 foolish especially if you're a majority
1:31:20 population and you're sunni
1:31:21 so you're not going to join the effort
1:31:23 of the shiite for example who wants to
1:31:24 promote halal and me
1:31:25 so all of this town right and what i'm
1:31:27 trying to say but i think we we
1:31:28 we have common grounds in what we're
1:31:30 discussing yes that ta'awein is of
1:31:32 different
1:31:32 cooperating yeah and cooperation is of
1:31:35 different levels
1:31:36 right okay so i think one thing we need
1:31:38 to be very careful here is
1:31:40 uh a way which uh some of this
1:31:43 cooperation can be done
1:31:44 without acquiring the beliefs you know
1:31:47 becoming mixed with one another right
1:31:49 and then
1:31:49 falsehood and also that which is correct
1:31:51 becoming mixed with one another
1:31:52 okay and also there being a level of
1:31:54 distinction right
1:31:56 because so you're saying there's a
1:31:57 difference between unity in a sense
1:31:59 and uniformity in the sense that we're
1:32:01 not coming all together and saying okay
1:32:03 we want to
1:32:03 we want to basically unite we want to
1:32:04 put akai to the south side yeah
1:32:07 see what i'm saying that has to be used
1:32:08 there has to be of course that's what it
1:32:09 means how can i be calling to the son of
1:32:11 the messiah
1:32:12 i'm telling the people the messenger
1:32:14 said to abdullah ibn abbas
1:32:17 when you ask ask allah and then the guy
1:32:19 next to me it's like a conference we're
1:32:21 going to talk about
1:32:22 akida i'm coming yeah
1:32:27 yeah but of course there has to be a
1:32:28 level of yeah we have to come together
1:32:30 right this is happening now in the
1:32:32 schools related to sex education what
1:32:34 the
1:32:34 kids are being taught and the kophara
1:32:37 saying okay bring your issues forward
1:32:38 this and now right and then
1:32:40 people from different walks of life they
1:32:41 all have to come together right and
1:32:43 they're disgusted
1:32:46 you see what i'm saying yeah and um
1:32:49 yeah of course so what do you think of
1:32:52 this
1:32:53 this whole like you were calling it kind
1:32:54 of this um
1:32:56 phenomena of um
1:32:59 okay that's the second scenario or the
1:33:01 second part of the question right
1:33:03 uh of guilty by association right okay
1:33:06 and what tends to be thrown around
1:33:08 is that statement that is used by the
1:33:09 salaf
1:33:15 whoever's bidder is hidden from us then
1:33:18 his companionship is not hidden do you
1:33:19 know who said this
1:33:20 i can't remember now from the top of my
1:33:22 mind but what i can say to you is
1:33:24 that a lot of these statements from
1:33:28 books like
1:33:31 right uh i actually have somebody who
1:33:33 preceded me in saying what i'm going to
1:33:35 say right now
1:33:38 came to birmingham and
1:33:42 he was asked this question about
1:33:44 teaching the books like
1:33:48 because in this book you're going to
1:33:50 find some very unrestricted statements
1:33:52 that can be
1:33:53 totally taken out of context if this is
1:33:56 now being taught to a revert
1:33:57 which we've seen happening right and
1:34:00 you've got same as like if you see
1:34:02 somebody with an innovator
1:34:05 then associate with him every type of
1:34:07 evil
1:34:08 okay do not sit with the people of
1:34:10 innovation
1:34:12 indeed what this is gonna cause is gonna
1:34:14 cause sickness to your heart whatever
1:34:15 have you
1:34:15 okay yes there are right statements they
1:34:18 are statements that
1:34:19 were mentioned by the self we don't deny
1:34:20 them but what we need to basically agree
1:34:23 with is who's an innovator
1:34:26 when you paint a picture to the people
1:34:28 like we are the safe sect right
1:34:30 and you have this kind of syndrome of i
1:34:32 have a green card i'm going to al-jannah
1:34:34 which we can maybe even touch on in a
1:34:35 moment
1:34:36 uh okay and a person begins to think
1:34:39 halas
1:34:40 i'm so it and he begins to forget about
1:34:42 allah doing righteous actions
1:34:45 just because you've called yourself a
1:34:46 selfie or you've adopted that type of
1:34:49 way of thinking that doesn't give you a
1:34:50 green
1:34:52 card to enter into agenda okay and these
1:34:55 statements to be clear they're not
1:34:56 judging the religion they're not
1:34:57 exactly even we were discussing earlier
1:34:59 when we were discussing
1:35:01 uh this issue that is discussing
1:35:04 right is the same of the sahabi in
1:35:07 within yourself
1:35:12 it's weak honey for those who actually
1:35:14 say we don't
1:35:16 this issue that is discussed in books
1:35:17 like rhodoton nader and
1:35:19 other books of the sulfur it's not
1:35:22 discussion
1:35:22 by the way um no i mean
1:35:26 the whole of for
1:35:42 so his his cold is not huge in that
1:35:43 sense here something very interested in
1:35:45 team you mentioned i think it's
1:35:46 important that i mention this here
1:35:48 and he's going to brought perspective on
1:35:50 his book right look what
1:35:51 uh humilitamia mentioned right and
1:35:54 hypnotamia
1:35:56 don't put him in the same bracket as any
1:35:58 other scholar who came after him
1:36:00 and i'm talking about those who are
1:36:02 breathing here today
1:36:04 okay um ibn as imam and habibi said
1:36:07 about him
1:36:14 he has in-depth understanding when it
1:36:16 comes to knowing the positions
1:36:18 of the companions and also the targeting
1:36:21 they have been saying this right
1:36:36 many of the answers that imam rahim
1:36:39 allah gave
1:36:40 and those that are like him with regards
1:36:43 to these issues that we're speaking
1:36:44 about right
1:36:46 it came as an answer while
1:36:49 the questioner when he was asked in this
1:36:51 question the one being asked the
1:36:53 question like for example
1:36:54 muhammad he already knew who was talking
1:36:56 about for example
1:36:58 in layman's terms right so the viewer
1:37:00 understands like when i was in eleanor
1:37:02 in damage
1:37:05 everybody was on the same page there
1:37:06 everybody was
1:37:08 selfie everybody was upon you know that
1:37:10 way of thinking right
1:37:13 it's like a whole village imagine like a
1:37:14 whole village nobody has a different
1:37:17 uh creed of view than yourself
1:37:21 so you have a teacher that's sitting on
1:37:23 the chair everybody's attending the
1:37:24 class you sometimes used to have like
1:37:26 five thousand six thousand people
1:37:28 attending one class after asset and then
1:37:30 after marketing saying because all the
1:37:31 um the uh the the
1:37:34 the the kaki and the shops have to close
1:37:36 down at the time of the lesson
1:37:39 so he's asked a question okay
1:37:42 and what has he been asked about an
1:37:44 innovator now that has walked into the
1:37:47 everybody knows that this person is a
1:37:49 innovator the shaykh is being asked a
1:37:51 very general question
1:37:53 what do you say about an individual who
1:37:56 sits with
1:37:57 the innovator everybody knows what the
1:38:01 shaykh
1:38:02 is speaking about or what the question
1:38:03 is speaking about
1:38:05 so a lot of these answers that are found
1:38:08 in books like
1:38:12 it was the result of an answer being
1:38:15 given
1:38:16 after a question like this was asked so
1:38:19 one wants to now read this book
1:38:21 it's translated to him even the person
1:38:23 who might be teaching he doesn't know
1:38:24 arabic himself
1:38:26 so he's now translating it
1:38:29 communicating this to all of these
1:38:31 attendees some of them are reversed they
1:38:33 walk out of the masjid
1:38:35 on the streets of the uk oh you're an
1:38:37 innovator i can't sit with you
1:38:39 he was giving him salams before when in
1:38:41 fact that person he's just like a
1:38:43 general person he stays away from it
1:38:45 his own family members he stays away
1:38:47 from him mom and dad mom and dad
1:38:49 husband told these stories when he came
1:38:53 to
1:38:54 uh when he came to luton how a wife
1:38:57 boycotted a husband
1:38:59 because of some of these internal selfie
1:39:02 type issues
1:39:04 or that which is ascribed back to you
1:39:06 see what i'm saying
1:39:07 which is of course it's insane it's
1:39:10 absolutely insane
1:39:11 and i believe this kind of way has
1:39:13 really tarnished
1:39:15 the tao of silvia in general okay
1:39:18 we know when we say salafi it means
1:39:21 quran sunnah upon the understanding
1:39:23 of the early generations collectively
1:39:26 not ahad
1:39:26 right because the messenger says
1:39:31 the best of these who came out and those
1:39:33 who came after them
1:39:35 so to look at salafia today okay
1:39:40 and basically paint it with one brush
1:39:42 because you've run
1:39:43 into a certain group of brothers well i
1:39:46 again it's totally unjust
1:39:49 am i wrong for saying that right you've
1:39:51 run into a bunch of brothers
1:39:52 who were rough and tough and all you
1:39:55 ever heard from them was
1:39:56 them ripping into the people okay even
1:39:59 ripping into their own brothers who
1:40:01 might be calling to the same thing
1:40:02 just because they're not calling to
1:40:04 allah under your banner you've started
1:40:05 having a go at them
1:40:06 you know it's like ibra josie is sitting
1:40:10 with us right now right and seeing
1:40:13 what's happening around
1:40:14 us in the uk he mentioned something very
1:40:16 powerful he said
1:40:20 hadith
1:40:27 upon the people of hadith
1:40:30 is them insulting and criticizing one
1:40:33 another
1:40:34 and what are they trying to do here
1:40:35 they're trying to
1:40:37 uh what's the best way to put this
1:40:40 they rejoice over the downfall of others
1:40:44 and this is all under the banner he says
1:40:52 yeah and they do this under the banner
1:40:54 of
1:40:56 and we hear about this all the time
1:40:57 right this is a science that is studied
1:40:59 in
1:40:59 hadith where uh the scholars of the past
1:41:02 like imam bukhari
1:41:04 they would criticize the narrators in
1:41:06 order to protect the sharia
1:41:07 so the same thing with the uh yeah so he
1:41:16 says
1:41:18 what the scholars of the past they use
1:41:20 this field that they use in order to
1:41:21 protect the sharia
1:41:23 you see what i'm saying so he's like i
1:41:26 heard something
1:41:27 actually he was saying that people that
1:41:29 do this that these are two separate
1:41:31 fields that you shouldn't
1:41:32 you shouldn't impose
1:41:36 a field yeah for that again warning the
1:41:39 people
1:41:40 from innovation again is something that
1:41:42 the religion caused right
1:41:44 but you go to certain gatherings
1:41:47 it's as if they have their own exactly
1:41:52 it has all the names in there 50 guys
1:41:54 are here being thrown onto the floor
1:41:56 they're being you know thrown under the
1:41:57 rug this person's offered this person's
1:41:59 offer this person's office and this is
1:42:00 okay again let me
1:42:01 cancel straight let me let me make this
1:42:03 very clear
1:42:05 warning is bidder and it's people i
1:42:06 mentioned all the courses
1:42:08 is part of our religion yes you do it
1:42:10 with the atheist you do it with others
1:42:12 as well
1:42:12 we do it as what is part of our religion
1:42:15 right but
1:42:16 he has to be done in a fair way it has
1:42:18 to be it has to be done by the right
1:42:19 people not someone else
1:42:20 arabic language and doesn't know how to
1:42:23 communicate or read or
1:42:24 right when he when he said they they do
1:42:27 it under the banner
1:42:28 of al-jar i didn't ask myself the
1:42:29 question is you're looking at what's
1:42:31 happening in the uk
1:42:33 see what i'm saying he's passed away how
1:42:34 many hundred years ago
1:42:36 but too many of these brothers maybe
1:42:37 even jealousy be of the manager huh
1:42:40 i mean
1:42:54 one thing that um
1:42:57 he opened my eyes up to is the books of
1:43:00 umitamia
1:43:01 because when i first came back from
1:43:02 damage i was given a very hard time
1:43:05 very hard time so much so
1:43:08 and in fact i can actually relate to
1:43:10 what yasser is saying at the beginning
1:43:11 of your podcast when
1:43:12 he talks about some of the difficulties
1:43:15 and issues that he went through right
1:43:16 i can fully relate to that i've seen it
1:43:18 medina maybe this is something we're
1:43:19 going to discuss
1:43:20 the amount of trouble i've been given in
1:43:22 the last four years just being in medina
1:43:23 so when i left after spending time in in
1:43:25 aliyaman and i came back
1:43:26 i was given a very hard time so much so
1:43:30 that i began to think is this what dean
1:43:33 of allah azzawajal is
1:43:35 when i ran into some of these brothers
1:43:36 the way they were treating me
1:43:38 and this was being used under the banner
1:43:40 of as salivir
1:43:41 this is the way of the self as salafi is
1:43:44 this
1:43:46 is a noble thing it's not what i think
1:43:48 or what you think muhammad or what my
1:43:50 sheikh thinks or your
1:43:52 it is the way of the three golden
1:43:53 generations
1:43:55 you see what i'm saying they're
1:43:56 understanding collectively
1:43:58 until actually they met the likes of
1:43:59 shahrukh bhusam
1:44:02 and also abraham's naveed and later on i
1:44:04 ended up meeting
1:44:07 and the common feature amongst us all is
1:44:08 that we were oppressed by the same group
1:44:10 of people
1:44:11 and we were made to look that
1:44:15 this what we're doing is against the way
1:44:16 of the self even if you
1:44:18 repent or retract yes it's not all of
1:44:20 that stuff you're not good enough
1:44:24 what happened was the man hasn't said to
1:44:26 me
1:44:27 open your eyes up to the books of him
1:44:31 so one thing he said to me was he was in
1:44:34 the house of one of these mashach
1:44:38 i mentioned just maybe i shouldn't
1:44:42 yeah huh you don't have to yeah just
1:44:43 let's just leave inshallah it's one of
1:44:44 the prominent
1:44:46 of them right and he said to him sheikh
1:44:48 look
1:44:49 i have these statements of humanitamia
1:44:52 like where am i going wrong ibn
1:44:54 is saying this about boycotting
1:44:58 the exact wording that he uses right
1:44:59 that it depends you can't just boycott
1:45:01 everybody
1:45:03 and all the other statements that he
1:45:04 collected
1:45:11 has gone against the unanimous agreement
1:45:16 and i i found that shocking i struggled
1:45:19 to really believe that
1:45:20 i later on had discussions with some of
1:45:22 our mashaykh in damage
1:45:24 i've went to shariat okay one of the
1:45:26 things that i get criticized for being
1:45:28 with shariah
1:45:32 i spent four years in yemen right and i
1:45:34 took to him i was like
1:45:37 i don't need to discuss now on camera
1:45:39 what exactly i discussed this is
1:45:40 a timid a student going up to
1:45:44 saying what about this and what about
1:45:45 this what about that how do we deal with
1:45:48 these issues of pictures and whatnot
1:45:49 that
1:45:50 and these you know and then
1:45:55 yeah i i just never after i left and i
1:45:59 started opening my eyes up to him
1:46:02 [Music]
1:46:04 i just i just like this doesn't make
1:46:05 sense
1:46:07 this is not a productive way of dealing
1:46:11 with problems of the people
1:46:15 and of course it's more safer to take
1:46:19 the position of the scholars of the past
1:46:24 the one who's living he's not free from
1:46:26 any fitness so we have the classical
1:46:28 scholars all saying this
1:46:30 it's like they're living amongst us
1:46:34 today they've dealt with our problems
1:46:36 with how to deal with these issues right
1:46:38 and i think that's more than sufficient
1:46:41 yeah how what would you say now probably
1:46:43 as a final statement to
1:46:46 about all of the things obviously you're
1:46:49 one of the people
1:46:50 who you're very close to although very
1:46:52 close to
1:46:55 and you're very close to some of these
1:46:56 brothers um
1:46:58 uh and i think they respect and love you
1:46:59 and i think you feel the same way
1:47:01 yeah with them as well yeah and uh more
1:47:03 so i still work with
1:47:04 knowledge colleges of course i just
1:47:06 literally finished now what kind of
1:47:08 uh what collectively you've come to the
1:47:11 conclude first of all individually you
1:47:12 came to the conclusion that you know the
1:47:14 the kind of stunts you took with that
1:47:16 shiite incident with
1:47:18 uh it was an oppressive one and the tip
1:47:20 of the hour was not a good
1:47:21 idea and but maybe we should calm down a
1:47:23 bit with tempting out what
1:47:24 would you think that um would sway
1:47:28 the other brothers to come to a similar
1:47:30 conclusion to you
1:47:32 okay like i mentioned aziz
1:47:36 sometimes you gotta put your emotions to
1:47:38 the side past incidents to the side
1:47:41 and just think about your let me mention
1:47:43 this narration
1:47:48 of course he was the hadith of the
1:47:49 muslims right a man came up to him yes
1:47:57 he came to complain about somebody
1:47:58 oppressed him you know
1:48:01 he said to him
1:48:14 himself when he's free but you come to
1:48:17 him when he becomes busy with the
1:48:18 affairs of the muslims
1:48:21 he took a whip
1:48:25 it's like you know one thing that you
1:48:27 lash people with right
1:48:31 the man ended up leaving the place while
1:48:33 he was upset
1:48:37 you know the type of individual he was
1:48:40 who would always you know hold himself
1:48:41 to account he's the one that said
1:48:45 hold yourself to account before that day
1:48:46 comes your health to account
1:48:48 he contemplated upon what he done and he
1:48:51 asked
1:48:53 somebody to bring that man again when he
1:48:55 was brought
1:48:56 he gave him the whip goes with me
1:49:02 and the man said no
1:49:08 i've left my right with allah
1:49:11 and i've left it with you um i said no
1:49:14 choose one of the two
1:49:16 because okay no worries i'm going to
1:49:17 leave with allah
1:49:20 and then the man left omar was so upset
1:49:23 was so down he walked into his house
1:49:27 prayed to raqqa't and then he just burst
1:49:29 into tears
1:49:31 and he said these very beautiful
1:49:32 statements about himself he said
1:49:38 he was very low and allah
1:50:04 a man came to you in order to seek your
1:50:06 assistance right
1:50:07 instead of helping him you end up
1:50:10 oppressing him
1:50:16 what are you going to say to your lord
1:50:17 when you come to him tomorrow
1:50:19 yeah so i think
1:50:23 we as muslims forget about the dua just
1:50:25 as muslims
1:50:26 we need to have this constant habit of
1:50:28 before we go to sleep
1:50:30 we just think about everything that we
1:50:31 said okay we forget what we said
1:50:34 tomorrow what we said yesterday
1:50:37 like this constant habit of before i go
1:50:39 to sleep i just think about i take a
1:50:41 moment or two out close my eyes
1:50:43 everything that we that i said right
1:50:45 that which i said about so and so that
1:50:47 which i said about
1:50:48 this individual because he's all gonna
1:50:52 uh come you know something also that i
1:50:53 read in sierra leone
1:50:55 al-asma i mentioned is that also sophia
1:50:58 and authority and tooth
1:51:02 he wrote in his will that his books are
1:51:04 to be buried
1:51:12 omin he regretted some of the things
1:51:15 that he said about
1:51:16 others inside of this book he wrote
1:51:23 what he said about this person what he
1:51:24 said about that person but
1:51:26 look at his humility he was
1:51:30 um down to earth and humble enough to
1:51:33 just admit a mistake
1:51:35 okay i remember what you call it john
1:51:38 asked me this question
1:51:38 do you believe that you have changed
1:51:40 when you went to medina
1:51:42 i don't necessarily think i could call
1:51:43 it change it's just maybe more so
1:51:45 when you sit around the scholars
1:51:49 and you see the way they
1:51:53 just how can i put this in a very nice
1:51:54 way where
1:51:56 they just really just lighten down
1:51:58 something that is very
1:52:00 huge upon the next the soul of a person
1:52:03 for example now
1:52:04 retracting is not an easy thing right
1:52:07 this thing that i'm doing i've been
1:52:09 thinking about it for so long
1:52:13 for the last four years it was brought
1:52:14 to my attention i've been thinking about
1:52:15 even more so in the last two years
1:52:17 and even more so in the last month
1:52:20 yeah it's not an easy thing these
1:52:23 brothers are very beloved to you and
1:52:24 sometimes to say
1:52:25 something that might be a negative light
1:52:28 it can be very difficult
1:52:30 and i really really really hope that
1:52:33 whatever mentioned doesn't happen to us
1:52:36 when he said
1:52:42 when the people they start cooperating
1:52:44 in sin and evil they will begin to hate
1:52:45 one another
1:52:48 okay and like when you see some of these
1:52:51 like let me give you guys an example of
1:52:56 a medina
1:53:00 the six books of hadith in like 28 years
1:53:02 if i'm not mistaken but don't quote me
1:53:03 on the years
1:53:05 and he's then when started teaching the
1:53:07 books again
1:53:08 he's maybe in his early 90s or late 80s
1:53:11 you can just quickly do a google check
1:53:12 and you'll find this right
1:53:15 how many times have i heard him say this
1:53:18 the hectic
1:53:20 he is like the scholar of the scholars
1:53:22 in the haram
1:53:25 how many times have i heard him say
1:53:27 allah
1:53:30 and i don't even study with him the only
1:53:32 time i've studied with him was
1:53:33 like i finished the book with him
1:53:37 this was recently when he taught it
1:53:39 before he started teaching the
1:53:41 malik how do i know this sometimes when
1:53:44 i leave my halakhah i just basically
1:53:46 stand there
1:53:47 and i'm listening to the q and a's he
1:53:50 says
1:53:53 and sometimes he would even give a fatwa
1:53:55 and he retracted later on
1:53:57 like one of the towers that he recently
1:53:58 gave regards to the coronavirus
1:54:00 about you know how you pray in the haram
1:54:02 they praying well there's a distance
1:54:03 between each masali
1:54:05 huh he gave the fat when he said this is
1:54:07 no that you can't do this
1:54:10 and then later on when the legend spoke
1:54:11 about it he retracted his statement
1:54:16 somebody was very dear to my heart right
1:54:19 and i'm just giving you guys a couple of
1:54:20 examples of some of these mountains
1:54:22 today who are teaching in the most
1:54:24 honorable place in the world obviously
1:54:26 you have the cabin you have the medina
1:54:27 as all
1:54:28 huh there was a class
1:54:32 where he was teaching us uh just after
1:54:35 maghrib
1:54:36 he was quoting the verses and he was
1:54:38 trying to make a point about toheidan
1:54:47 he mentioned that right then he
1:54:49 mentioned the other ayah that's just on
1:54:51 the next page
1:54:52 when allah said
1:54:57 that's basically the ayah right
1:55:02 when he mentioned the ayah i've never
1:55:06 had the ayah before
1:55:08 he mentioned it in a way that is not in
1:55:10 the quran
1:55:23 it was very unintentional it happens to
1:55:25 us sometimes we might misquote an ayah
1:55:27 right
1:55:28 i'm sitting in the class i'm actually
1:55:30 like suspecting myself did you remember
1:55:32 did you even remember
1:55:34 i'm asking myself
1:55:38 next lesson after obviously saying
1:55:43 because yesterday i made a mistake i was
1:55:44 trying to quote an eye but i completely
1:55:46 misquoted it
1:55:49 when you think about it is this actually
1:55:52 really difficult for them i don't
1:55:53 believe it's difficult for them
1:55:55 when you come to realization that those
1:55:57 who are far greater than you
1:55:59 from the look look at the look
1:56:04 was not like any other companion i'm
1:56:05 going to conclude with this right
1:56:10 he was the top when it comes to the
1:56:11 hadith he memorized even have
1:56:28 doesn't ring a bell to most people but
1:56:30 you say
1:56:32 everybody knows him the sunnis know him
1:56:34 the shiites know him as all
1:56:35 and they've got their observations on
1:56:37 this great wonderful companion right
1:56:40 even harry one of them companions that
1:56:42 didn't memorize
1:56:44 anywhere near what they did he came up
1:56:47 to him and he said to him
1:56:48 oh you made a mistake used to give
1:56:52 the fats with that if the adana fajr
1:56:56 goes off
1:56:57 right and you're in the state of janaba
1:56:59 whether it was because of relations or
1:57:00 whether you were
1:57:02 you had the wet dream you can't fast
1:57:03 that day and he gave the sweater for a
1:57:05 very long time
1:57:07 until abdu's came
1:57:12 both of them saying that
1:57:16 what you're saying is incorrect they're
1:57:18 basically saying the opposite
1:57:20 look at his response he didn't turn
1:57:22 around and say
1:57:24 like i am i am i've memorized x amount
1:57:27 of a hadith
1:57:30 did they really say this
1:57:35 if that is the case they are more
1:57:36 knowledgeable than me forgot this issue
1:57:38 and he retracted his statement even
1:57:41 faith suggests and recently retracted
1:57:43 some things that he mentioned with
1:57:44 regards to this whole corona virus
1:57:50 so um it's important you know we
1:57:55 just kind of like accept it we swallow
1:57:58 the ego
1:57:58 and we bite our tongues and just you
1:58:01 know
1:58:02 and and what you did basically in the
1:58:05 video is always it's very highly
1:58:06 respectable
1:58:08 you know and uh
1:58:11 when you basically said that you said he
1:58:13 was mistaken
1:58:14 it takes a man to do that right i've
1:58:17 done that i've
1:58:18 i've had so many retractions brother you
1:58:20 know
1:58:22 that's yeah that's because it's like and
1:58:24 and the other thing is and i think it's
1:58:25 important that we discuss this is
1:58:27 by the way it disarms people as well
1:58:28 like when you
1:58:30 when you've made a mistake and it's
1:58:31 clear for the majority to see at least
1:58:33 yeah
1:58:34 and it's a mistake you know i've made
1:58:37 many of them
1:58:38 as you as people know like uh i've made
1:58:41 videos about my mistakes
1:58:42 muhammad hijab exposed i made a couple
1:58:44 of videos okay i've never watched them
1:58:51 so but i was going to say is that yeah
1:58:55 it's just to sums people because
1:58:57 you want your record to be clean as
1:58:59 possible and you know you're going to be
1:59:00 making mistakes especially at a young
1:59:02 age you know you're going to be making
1:59:03 mistakes so
1:59:03 what's the what's the fuss about you can
1:59:06 just get out of the way and
1:59:07 kind of move on yeah it's it's something
1:59:10 that universally happens with everybody
1:59:25 you you seek more knowledge even if you
1:59:27 tell me he said
1:59:31 the more you increase knowledge you
1:59:32 become more merciful right that's
1:59:34 beautiful
1:59:34 yeah and um you really tend to think
1:59:38 about things more and
1:59:40 and and there's no harm you make
1:59:42 mistakes even
1:59:43 says to me all the time that he made you
1:59:46 know he used to say things like
1:59:48 telling everybody that you have to all
1:59:50 make hijra jiben
1:59:51 as soon as they came back and all of
1:59:53 them they were on it
1:59:54 but then you kind of like the more you
1:59:56 give the hour you kind of mature
1:59:58 through it and yeah and when you when
2:00:00 you see some of your elders saying this
2:00:02 is yeah see what i'm saying yeah and
2:00:05 things also very very important that we
2:00:06 touch on this is
2:00:08 just because i take a view it's not fair
2:00:11 that my brother who i may have been
2:00:14 seen with yeah okay is painted with the
2:00:17 same brush
2:00:18 and vice versa and vice versa uh and
2:00:21 obviously this is exactly what's
2:00:22 happened now i never meet him there
2:00:25 and now i've been seeing and i totally
2:00:27 understand why person would think that
2:00:30 and uh and even now just right after
2:00:32 this video people gonna be what
2:00:34 yeah me and you don't agree with
2:00:35 everything so any uh okay just
2:00:37 and this is how i've always been with uh
2:00:41 my brother imran abdulrahman likewise
2:00:44 and even yourself when we met up in hajj
2:00:47 i'm not your teacher we've had
2:00:48 discussions right have i ever have you
2:00:51 ever felt like i'm enforcing my view
2:00:52 and if i don't if you don't take my view
2:00:54 ahead i'm gonna declare to be an
2:00:56 innovator or anything like that i've
2:00:57 always seen i've seen that
2:00:58 we sat for how many years what two
2:01:00 hedges we jumped into and we sat down
2:01:02 and we talked and
2:01:03 we exchanged what you call it advices
2:01:06 and you told me some things that i did
2:01:07 and
2:01:08 i took it with a pinch of salt and i
2:01:09 thought about it and it was one of the
2:01:11 things that
2:01:12 we discussed as well right and i told
2:01:14 you stuff is all
2:01:15 and uh even with imran like
2:01:18 i'm not his teacher okay even with some
2:01:22 of the brothers that i teach
2:01:23 i don't think i'm the type of person who
2:01:24 enforces his views
2:01:26 i have this rough and tough what you
2:01:28 call it mentality if you don't take my
2:01:30 view
2:01:30 i'm gonna throw you off or i'm gonna
2:01:32 boycott you or whatever have you right
2:01:34 it's been done to me before somebody
2:01:35 said to me bro if you don't leave this
2:01:37 i'm gonna boycott you
2:01:39 okay go do whatever you wanna he like i
2:01:41 never started doing that
2:01:42 with you and at the end of the day you
2:01:45 know it's uh
2:01:47 it's been said to me so i know how he
2:01:48 feels and i've seen people's
2:01:50 relationships like a teacher student
2:01:52 relation get a bit frosty as all because
2:01:54 of the pushy roughy type of
2:01:58 way that one was trying to get maybe his
2:02:01 message across and i seen it doesn't go
2:02:04 down nicely
2:02:05 so my position with everybody is bro
2:02:07 this is my view
2:02:10 if you want to take is entirely up to
2:02:11 you okay
2:02:14 and um and i'll just advise a person
2:02:17 and because i've advised him now does
2:02:19 that mean i'm going to boycott i'm going
2:02:20 to stop work doing that with him
2:02:23 yeah and some people want that you see
2:02:25 what i'm saying
2:02:26 just because you've differed with so and
2:02:28 so they want you to differ okay i've
2:02:29 differed with him halas boycotting i
2:02:32 don't think that's a productive way to
2:02:33 kind of like
2:02:34 really go forward as well some people
2:02:37 have like ultra motives as well and
2:02:39 everything yeah and i think
2:02:40 that that attitude is um especially i'm
2:02:42 going to say especially in in the
2:02:44 muslim community those who attribute
2:02:47 themselves to salafia if they if
2:02:50 everyone attributed themselves salafiyah
2:02:52 had this kind of attitude you know well
2:02:55 i think we'd have
2:02:56 more productive uh and more
2:03:00 you know effective tower uh as as a
2:03:03 muslim community as a whole
2:03:05 and so i wanted to thank you for coming
2:03:07 on to this podcast i think it's been
2:03:09 extremely productive and um again let me
2:03:12 just point out before this gets
2:03:13 misconstrued as all right
2:03:15 there is issues that go back to a
2:03:18 person's hd head
2:03:19 yeah okay and there's some issues here
2:03:21 that is
2:03:22 credo type matters right and we're not
2:03:24 discussing this at the moment we're
2:03:25 speaking about
2:03:26 other personalities he had the issues
2:03:28 yeah uh
2:03:29 a person like wants to maybe do
2:03:31 something i might disagree with him of
2:03:33 how he goes to do
2:03:34 a particular thing just because i don't
2:03:37 agree with him that's why i'm gonna
2:03:38 boycott him or throw him off you see
2:03:40 what i'm saying
2:03:40 and a lot of the time you see that it
2:03:42 goes back to these issues
2:03:44 now you find people calling this an
2:03:46 individual innovator or
2:03:48 this and that tends to come back to
2:03:50 these kind of things isn't it
2:03:51 and i think you're a living example of
2:03:53 someone who starts off
2:03:55 with um with a certain kind of approach
2:03:58 and then
2:03:58 what the more reading the more knowledge
2:04:00 the more nuanced the more
2:04:02 sophisticated you become for sharing
2:04:05 your thoughts i think
2:04:06 many of the things you've said people
2:04:08 would resonate with and find really
2:04:10 productive soldiers
2:04:13 and uh for those watching insha allah
2:04:15 you can uh
2:04:16 we're going to try and put the these
2:04:17 podcasts on uh
2:04:19 one of the streams like itunes or
2:04:22 something like that we'll see how it
2:04:23 goes it's the fourth podcast
2:04:25 hijab podcast um maybe comment on who
2:04:28 you would like to see
2:04:30 on on a future podcast we're trying to
2:04:32 bring
2:04:33 people from different backgrounds
2:04:35 different specialities different
2:04:36 experiences so just let us know
2:04:40 inshallah