Thought Provoking Questions to Transgenders | Speakers Corner | Hyde Park (2017-12-18) ​

0:00:00 is that Christian nothing because she's
0:00:04 wearing to ask you know why I find
0:01:10 interested there's two reasons like one
0:01:13 or all of them is is split the feminist
0:01:16 movement so the feminist movement seem
0:01:19 to be divided on the idea of trans like
0:01:21 what to do in certain circumstances and
0:01:24 it's also split homosexuals like so I
0:01:27 feel like some homes so can I ask you
0:01:34 some questions because for me yeah
0:01:37 oh just trying are you friends let me
0:01:54 ask you a question do you know Wi-Fi
0:01:56 interesting consider the following
0:01:59 scenario because you know this is where
0:02:02 I find the contentious issues are the
0:02:06 sports out there like sports mixed
0:02:08 martial artists football even rugby lots
0:02:12 of sports where I think society has
0:02:15 agreed that one gender has a biological
0:02:21 do you agree with this all right so so
0:02:25 that so males having a biological
0:02:26 advantage over females exactly so now
0:02:45 let me put you in a certain situation
0:02:47 ask you guys a question right say for
0:02:50 example you have a trans like yourself
0:02:51 or actually let's make it the opposite
0:02:55 way yeah so you have someone who's a
0:02:58 male who becomes female all right all
0:03:03 right
0:03:04 would you protect that person's right to
0:03:07 say for example they wanted to
0:03:10 participate in sport obviously they are
0:03:12 allowed to participate in sport yeah
0:03:14 alright say they want to participate in
0:03:16 sport would you protect their right to
0:03:18 for example without man became a woman
0:03:20 too because they want to be identified
0:03:22 as women right that's it they want it
0:03:25 they don't want to be even known as a
0:03:26 man anymore
0:03:27 that's that's behind them right so so so
0:03:31 man yeah could they now participate in a
0:03:33 woman's side of it should they be able
0:03:36 to yeah okay now this is the thing
0:03:38 because a lot of feminists would argue
0:03:39 that they shouldn't and they'll swim in
0:03:42 this I'm not saying they're right or
0:03:42 wrong I want your opinion right those
0:03:45 feminists would argue that hold on
0:03:46 because actually this is where the lines
0:03:48 between what is referred to as a social
0:03:50 construction and what's the biological
0:03:52 reality become blurred because here we
0:03:54 know that testosterone is a is obviously
0:03:59 a hormone which is which which enhances
0:04:02 your strength and it enhances your
0:04:03 biological bilities right so if that is
0:04:06 the case if someone even if they've had
0:04:09 like hormone blockers and if they had
0:04:10 like the whole operation even if they've
0:04:13 had that whole system you will still
0:04:16 have an enhanced hormonal biological
0:04:19 advantage from a successful perspective
0:04:22 right so some would argue is just like
0:04:24 taking steroids yeah that like you're
0:04:26 not allowed to take stories in my sports
0:04:27 yeah so how would you ice it so they all
0:04:29 say look it's not fair for someone who
0:04:32 has gone through that whole
0:04:33 transformative process yet it retains a
0:04:36 lot of the biological advantage of being
0:04:38 a man to be able to participate in a
0:04:42 woman only thing like that in fact it
0:04:44 could be argued that if they do
0:04:46 participate that would be depreciating
0:04:48 from women's rights because women have a
0:04:50 right to fair contest right so can you
0:04:52 see the two sides so okay tell me how
0:04:54 you resolve it
0:05:30 so you think you think that the right of
0:05:33 that person to participate in the gender
0:05:36 of the of the chosen gender is Trump's
0:05:42 yeah and we don't like Trump I think
0:05:44 we're on the same side but it Trump's
0:05:48 the the advances that they make
0:06:12 Chipping they should be case by case or
0:06:14 something yes but you know what that was
0:06:16 suggested because if you if you if we
0:06:18 had it that way then you'd have some
0:06:20 women but the point is this
0:06:24 then discrimination will still exist
0:06:25 against transgendered people because
0:06:28 some people will be judged oh yeah this
0:06:31 guy's got all this this woman right has
0:06:34 too much testosterone her body so the
0:06:38 issue is here it seemed like a question
0:06:41 with no answer you see what I mean
0:06:46 it seems like a question with no answer
0:06:57 okay let me ask you another question
0:07:00 we must go another question now we have
0:07:03 boys schools and girls schools now let's
0:07:04 go become a little more easy right this
0:07:05 is easy you're Nathan Nathan I like your
0:07:49 thinking in a way yeah I like your
0:07:51 open-minded I'll be honest with you I
0:07:53 don't find your open-mindedness among
0:07:55 other transgender some are very militant
0:08:00 right I think your your approach is a
0:08:03 bit more fresh because frankly we live
0:08:10 that what you've said there is fair
0:08:13 enough
0:08:14 considering the circumcised let me tell
0:08:15 you why because frankly if we were
0:08:18 living and we're living it this is the
0:08:19 age we're living in now right we're
0:08:21 living in an age where it's very
0:08:23 possible for there to be some kind of
0:08:28 policy change where now because this is
0:08:32 one of the contentious ones like where
0:08:33 do we put trans I for example as
0:08:34 transgendered man at one point so
0:08:37 someone who's had a sex change and
0:08:40 become a woman yeah
0:08:41 at what point should they be allowed
0:08:43 into the room as toilet as soon as they
0:08:47 identify yeah okay let me ask I want to
0:08:50 get all of their opinions let me
0:09:10 challenge you on that right so for
0:09:13 example if I and it's difficult if I had
0:09:17 to do nothing could be some kind of I'd
0:09:19 have a serious advantage let's be honest
0:09:24 and it wouldn't be an easy operation
0:09:27 anyways the point is this if somebody
0:09:32 transferred from being a man to a woman
0:09:34 only by virtue of just actually saying
0:09:36 that okay now I'm a woman now yeah
0:09:37 you're saying that the point at which
0:09:39 they should be allowed into the toilet
0:09:41 is the point to which that they identify
0:09:42 yeah
0:09:46 are you LGBT as well what what does that
0:09:52 mean can you tell me no way
0:09:58 really yeah what do you mean by okay
0:10:03 hold on hold on hold on this is really
0:10:06 interesting this is well this one here
0:10:07 no you see this question of we'll put it
0:10:11 on the side for saying this gender
0:10:12 fluidity here I'm gonna actually
0:10:15 challenge your little girl name okay
0:10:17 let's challenge her on you know you said
0:10:21 some days you feel milk and some days
0:10:24 you feel female yeah okay
0:10:26 do you accept that do you accept that
0:10:31 notions of masculinity and femininity
0:10:33 are social constructs are you with me
0:10:41 listen to me carefully do you accept
0:10:44 that notions of femininity are social
0:10:46 constructs in other words you would
0:10:48 argue right that the idea of woman
0:10:51 preferring pink or the idea of women
0:10:54 being in the house or kitchen all that
0:10:55 stuff that's a social construct based on
0:10:58 the patriarchal society right okay you
0:11:01 accept this right ideas of masculinity
0:11:04 therefore are also socially constructed
0:11:06 okay you accept that yeah all right if
0:11:09 you accept that which by the way
0:11:11 personally I don't accept it completely
0:11:12 there is some truth in it some I don't
0:11:15 completely accept it but if you accept
0:11:16 that if you okay can you see my question
0:11:22 right my question here is gonna be how
0:11:24 do you define gender fluidity when
0:11:27 gender has lost meaning because there is
0:11:31 no such thing as if because if
0:11:33 femininity and masculinity are social
0:11:35 constructs then you can't say I feel
0:11:38 masculine or feel feminine because both
0:11:40 of those things are subjective value
0:11:42 judgments which are socially constructed
0:11:44 reality maybe is the case that gender
0:11:46 fluidity is a social constructed reality
0:11:48 how do you know that what you're going
0:11:50 through is not socially construct
0:11:56 how do you know it's gender fluidity and
0:11:58 it's not just homo loop in your mood
0:12:01 swings
0:12:02 that literally you feel angry at one
0:12:03 point and that you know how do you know
0:12:05 how would you also differentiate between
0:12:06 those things how do you know for example
0:12:10 when was it when were you when did you
0:12:11 feel man bleep what do you feel like a
0:12:13 man okay fine but what you say your
0:12:26 gender fluid yeah those days will you
0:12:28 feel like I'm like a man to put it
0:12:30 crudely obviously that has socially you
0:12:33 know constructed implications you gender
0:12:36 fluid as well are you gonna fluid okay I
0:12:38 can ask you both those days you feel
0:12:40 like a man first of all how do you know
0:12:43 you feel like a moment what does that
0:12:52 mean what does that mean how would you
0:12:53 do stick with me stick with me because
0:12:59 this is interesting for me go ahead you
0:13:02 see you feel more masculine so tell me
0:13:04 what that means
0:13:14 so tell me like how tell me what you so
0:13:19 give me some things that you feel when
0:13:20 you feel masking aggression close I'm a
0:14:04 man right
0:14:05 I identify as a man so I know how it
0:14:08 feels to be an experience
0:14:14 tell me what emotions we're talking
0:14:17 about here that those days you feel
0:14:18 gender-fluid a bit manly tell me
0:14:21 those things dim your emotion just one
0:14:31 now though a buyer is no wrong answer
0:14:33 this is the zero okay so let's get these
0:15:25 girls involved this all cuz I wanna know
0:15:27 if you share honestly I'm learning from
0:15:29 you guys don't take this I look like you
0:15:32 get me I'm just because I haven't met my
0:15:34 whole life I've met everyone but I've
0:15:37 not met gender food that's why I met
0:15:56 some people that claim to be like this
0:15:57 right but I never believed them right
0:16:01 my question is this
0:16:04 she was saying and I want her to pay
0:16:06 attention should I call you hurt him
0:16:09 okay that's cool then that makes it easy
0:16:12 for me
0:16:13 I called him see I need to change an
0:16:16 example listen because we're trying to
0:16:20 get to the bottom of something I said
0:16:22 like what is how do you feel when you're
0:16:25 like basically having your Matt mill day
0:16:26 so she goes things like I'll come into
0:16:28 more like male groups playing sports
0:16:32 will get more things like that so do
0:16:34 direct does that resonate with you a
0:16:35 little bit or what why do you feel when
0:16:46 you feel filmo or what you feel like
0:16:48 what kind of things you feel like Jack
0:16:49 what activities you do you ask an
0:16:51 activity what do you do
0:18:18 okay yeah when you're playing sports or
0:18:27 something yeah I've heard let's go
0:18:33 what's your call how much of you heard
0:18:34 of us at a feminist Ryan Agassi she
0:18:38 wrote a book and she was talking about
0:18:40 the things that women are inhibited from
0:18:42 doing because of them because their
0:18:44 physical breasts she mentioned that one
0:18:45 of those things is sports because of
0:18:47 their physical presence
0:18:52 I can ask another question do I am since
0:19:10 you got a gender-fluid on on a serious
0:19:12 level I had shown a scowl on understand
0:19:14 right now I'm in a position of
0:19:16 understanding your you're teaching me
0:19:18 you're the teacher and the learner I'm
0:19:19 the question I am the question is this
0:19:21 you know you say them that you feel like
0:19:23 you do gender-fluid you feel like I'm at
0:19:25 Mill would you go as far as I say and
0:19:27 there's no right or wrong answers to
0:19:29 short out your opinion would you go as
0:19:31 far as to say that we should be afforded
0:19:33 the right to participate of males like
0:19:36 for example sports or but you know what
0:19:51 I'm gonna ask you before basically at
0:19:54 what point should males that are having
0:19:56 because this goes back to the question
0:19:57 we had before were you were hearing it
0:19:58 when I said that if a male describes now
0:20:01 like he's not had the sex change per se
0:20:02 well now they identify themselves a
0:20:04 female should they be allowed in the
0:20:06 female toilets and most of you said yeah
0:20:07 it should be yeah you said I am so I
0:20:09 think okay so what's your opinion she's
0:20:14 saying yes she's very on about
0:20:19 are you are you trying to sir okay so
0:20:21 what Isis okay explain to me how because
0:20:24 it's all know you melt a few more fuel
0:20:44 okay can i play devil's advocate for you
0:20:46 guys later alright so someone could
0:20:48 argue that here if someone because you
0:20:51 let's I'm assuming your ingenuity I
0:20:54 believe your genuine yeah obviously
0:20:55 right what other people might not be
0:20:58 genuine like for example my man here
0:21:00 right okay I'm not gonna use example
0:21:03 okay okay my man here right you might
0:21:06 have this crush on a girl he or he might
0:21:09 want to just spy on someone right he
0:21:11 identifies himself as a female for about
0:21:12 a week
0:21:13 okay now no seriously this is a case
0:21:16 because if we're talking about you get
0:21:18 what I mean
0:21:19 so so so that person hasn't had the sex
0:21:21 change put on a wig or something
0:21:53 I recently had a boyfriend
0:22:30 but she feel like okay right you say you
0:22:42 prefer to be a man what does it mean to
0:22:45 be a man because you know can I tell you
0:22:52 something philosophically yes I will say
0:22:54 to you that I don't believe you yeah
0:22:58 fully I'll tell you why
0:23:02 being a man is a first-person subjective
0:23:06 experience okay you can only know how it
0:23:09 feels that like to be a man if you are a
0:23:12 man
0:23:12 biologically okay would you accept that
0:23:15 so if you felt because this is one thing
0:23:18 that we will talk about now because it's
0:23:19 the idea of and it's a philosophical
0:23:20 thing nature versus nurture right
0:23:24 naturally naturally we're born in
0:23:27 certain ways and that we have to work
0:23:29 out a sociologist or psychologist or
0:23:30 whatever is at one point at what junk
0:23:33 cha and do we believe that society has
0:23:37 had an influence on human beings
0:23:38 thinking the reason why I kept asking
0:23:40 you guys about masculinity and one when
0:23:43 you because you guys are gender fluid
0:23:44 and you you're obviously trying gender
0:23:46 yeah
0:23:46 at what point you feel like a man a
0:23:48 woman and you said okay well when I cook
0:23:50 I feel more like a woman when I play
0:23:51 football more like a man you said that
0:23:54 did you get me like I feel I want to be
0:23:56 I don't know what it is but
0:23:59 Wow it's just open I think it's more and
0:24:02 looking and like a feeling of life I
0:24:05 generally have really bad for me is my
0:24:13 weight but gender dysphoria for me is my
0:24:15 general
0:24:16 genitals I get what you're saying yeah I
0:24:19 understand this size with that but what
0:24:22 I'm saying to you is that this idea of
0:24:24 first-person experience is very it is
0:24:26 important that for example before I came
0:24:28 in today I was watching this thing
0:24:29 there's a robot a new robot called
0:24:31 Sophie have you seen the Sophie it looks
0:24:34 very go home and watch they weren't
0:24:36 Sophie right Sophie is one of the most
0:24:38 probably the most like interesting
0:24:40 looking robots human-like robots yeah
0:24:43 now you know it so come back you can ask
0:24:46 her Oh Sophie questions Sophie will
0:24:47 answer but it's a robot at the end of
0:24:49 the day so artificial intelligence is
0:24:50 nice but so if someone came to you and
0:24:54 say now hold on and this is not to take
0:24:56 away from how you feel right if someone
0:24:58 came to you say I want to feel like I
0:25:00 want to
0:25:01 I feel like Sophie I feel like a robot
0:25:03 what would you say to them no no that's
0:25:15 fine I respect them as well for that no
0:25:17 problem
0:25:18 you see oh laughs no she's question is
0:25:20 would you believe them in other words is
0:25:24 there a way that they could know how it
0:25:26 feels like to be like Sophie okay if I
0:25:29 ask you a question now let's go let's go
0:25:31 one step further if you have I'm not
0:25:33 comparing this before anyone says
0:25:34 anything I'm not comparing this let's
0:25:36 say for example I say look I feel I want
0:25:40 to be like a rhino
0:25:43 oh you know I did at one point when I
0:25:46 was younger when I was younger I looked
0:25:48 at I used to watch a lot of like animal
0:25:50 documentaries in there and I was
0:25:51 particularly fascinated with the lion I
0:25:53 know how to be any animal I'd probably
0:25:59 be a lion why because the king of the
0:26:01 jungle he's got the ability to tear down
0:26:04 his opponent you don't have to be as big
0:26:06 as them yeah and look at them lion it
0:26:08 looks beautiful man
0:26:10 well the question is could I ever know
0:26:12 how it feels like to be a lion park like
0:26:18 a lion so if I ask the people to call me
0:26:23 Lions H that's my name now lion H I want
0:26:27 to made this part of them but the point
0:26:33 being is this
0:26:34 at what point and this is a question
0:26:36 it's an open question guys you know I'm
0:26:37 saying I'm not trying to well I'm just
0:26:40 saying at what point does society
0:26:42 actually say but hold on that's how you
0:26:43 feel you want to be that's how you and
0:26:45 that is actually I'm not going to use
0:26:48 the word delusional at all right but
0:26:50 that is a thought process which is a
0:26:52 faulty cognition of some sort which
0:26:53 needs to be remedied so at what point
0:26:55 which we call it gender neutrality or
0:26:58 gender at what point do you guys think
0:27:01 yeah that it's actually more advisable
0:27:06 to remind this is my question do to what
0:27:11 at what point is it more advisable to
0:27:13 remind human beings of their biological
0:27:16 sex if any and if not then but does
0:27:21 biological sex have anything to do with
0:27:23 defining human beings as who they are
0:27:32 you get what I mean because it seems
0:27:35 that crop for me it seems I can catch 22
0:27:37 22nd why if you say that okay
0:27:40 gender-fluid I feel man sometimes I feel
0:27:43 like woman you're born as a biological
0:27:45 woman I'll say that from your
0:27:47 first-person subjective experience you
0:27:48 can never actually feel how it is to be
0:27:50 a man unless you are a man right right
0:27:53 biologically biologically now if you say
0:27:56 no hold on because I feel like I'm
0:27:58 playing more sports in some days and
0:27:59 cooking Avenue right but then we could
0:28:03 turn around and say what hold on that's
0:28:04 the social construction of what it means
0:28:06 to be a man and that's a social
0:28:07 construction of what we to be a woman so
0:28:09 it might not be so same thing so someone
0:28:15 you get what I mean so that's why the
0:28:18 trans transgender discussion transsexual
0:28:20 discussion is actually a very
0:28:21 complicated one yeah unda liberalism or
0:28:24 under any other system obvious a
0:28:26 Laveau's level to get me so tomorrow is
0:28:28 really interesting because unless I
0:28:29 wanna profit there were men and that had
0:28:32 castrated themselves right and yeah yeah
0:28:34 and he you know he would treat with with
0:28:37 great respect and whatnot yeah but the
0:28:39 point is is I don't know you know that's
0:28:41 what we believe we believe in treating
0:28:42 everyone with respect however the point
0:28:45 is this transgender transsexual
0:28:49 discussion is it seems like from I'm not
0:28:53 even thinking about it from religion
0:28:56 perspective or whatever I'm just
0:28:57 thinking about from a sociological
0:28:58 perspective I'm saying it's very
0:29:01 difficult for us to assert that hold on
0:29:05 we should call this person X because
0:29:08 they they feel like X what actually
0:29:11 feeling like X is socially constructed
0:29:17 yeah quite dear
0:29:19 that so you group me like do but at the
0:29:22 same time obviously that's constricted
0:29:24 to myself