Jake in the UK | Let's get to 10k! (2022-01-11)

discusses how to take philosophical concepts and turn them into "shorthand" terminology that people with little or no knowledge of philosophy can still understand. Jake argues that patience and explanation are key in this process, as well as reaching out to the Muslim community to provide them with accessible information about philosophy.

**00:00:00 ** Brother Jake is in the UK and is meeting with people to try and get to 10,000 subscribers on the Thought Adventure Podcast. People are commenting on the live stream, and one person asks if they can be invited to be a part of the 10,000 subscriber club. Jake says he will put the link to the 10,000 subscriber club on Twitter, and people can join if they like.

**00:05:00 ** Jake is in the UK and is trying to reach 10,000 subscribers on his YouTube channel. He is also booked to do a live stream with political commentator, Dr. Safwan Ali, in February.
**00:10:00 ** Jake talks about his upcoming travel series, "Jake in the UK - Let's get to 10k!" He discusses the challenges of flying out of Newark, NJ, and how the weather was while he was there.
**00:15:00 ** Jake discusses how he's adjusting to life in the UK, how the weather is cold, and how he's looking forward to upcoming courses. He also mentions that he's excited to have Josh Rasmussen on the show.
**00:20:00 ** Jake in the UK discusses the idea of taking philosophical concepts and turning them into "shorthand" terminology that people with little or no knowledge of philosophy can still understand. He discusses the importance of patience in this process, as well as the need to explain concepts in detail to those who are not familiar with them.

Jake in the UK discusses the idea of taking philosophical concepts and turning them into "shorthand" terminology that people with little or no knowledge of philosophy can still understand. He discusses the importance of patience in this process, as well as the need to explain concepts in detail to those who are not familiar with them. He also discusses the need to reach out to the Muslim community in order to provide them with accessible information about philosophical concepts.

**00:25:00 ** Jake discusses how he learns best and how his conversations with other people are more comprehensible. He argues that the academic discussion is there to get to a conclusion, and that if one wants to understand this stuff, they need to do the work.
**00:30:00 ** Jake shares his experience of having atheist friends who don't understand the foundations of their arguments. He suggests that the first step in any discussion of religion is to understand the epistemological assumptions of the person arguing.
**00:35:00 ** Jake explains that when referring to simple words like "god," "worship," and "prophet," there are different meanings depending on a person's religious background. He also notes that when discussing important matters, it's important to have a conversation with individuals so they understand what you mean. This is especially important when discussing religious topics, as different people may have different understandings of these terms.
**00:40:00 ** Jake in the UK discusses the baggage that some people bring when trying to have discussions about Islam. He says that this can be a problem, as some people's ideas about Islam are not based in reality. He recommends that people take notes during discussions, as this will help them to remember the information.
**00:45:00 ** Jake discusses how the death of God has happened multiple times throughout history, citing examples such as the French Revolution and Nietzsche's proclamation that "God is dead." He then moves on to discuss how the Islamic resistance to the idea of Christ's divinity is due to the prophet's elevated status. Finally, he concludes the video by talking about how the concept of nietzsche's "day of subscribers" is similar to that of Christ's "vacuum."
**00:50:00 ** Jake discusses how the death of god is a problem in secular societies, and how Christianity tries to solve that problem. He argues that this profithood is lost in Islam due to its connection to the divine.
**00:55:00
Discusses the concept of transcendence and how it applies to Islamic and Christian traditions. Jake discusses how following the sunnah of the prophets, which is living tradition, fills a spiritual void. Islam and Christianity have different ideas about who qualifies as a prophet, and as a result, the two religions are far apart in terms of practice. Jake argues that iman, or faith, is the key to bridging the gap between the two religions.

01:00:00 - 01:40:00

Jake discusses his thoughts on the current state of the YouTube community, and how he plans on helping to grow it. He also talks about his experience with other social media platforms, and how he prefers to use YouTube and Twitter.

**01:00:00 ** In Christianity, the belief that like the whole idea itself makes it impossible to follow the son of the prophet isa alaihissalam, you can't because he according to them is god, and we are absolutely cannot which is the death of god, is a consequence of that particular theological stance. For us now in the contemporary world, everywhere that that particular philosophy has embedded itself as part of the secular liberal sort of ideology, the consequence is a forgetfulness of god, and one of the consequences is there an atheism. Right and it's almost like this is the symptom before you get to the disease the symptom is you must have this disconnected belief of god, then you arrive at this conclusion which is atheism, and then you arrive at the conclusion of nihilism which is what you're interested in. John Peterson has made mention of this with his commentary about the the path that the jews took in previously. When you read the old testament, he talks about like the the most critical of the jews is the old testament, like they go through a struggle and they they suffer greatly at the hands of oppressors and things like that, and they become spiritual, and they turn back to their god they sent prophets and they begin to follow the prophets you know

**01:05:00 ** Jake discusses the importance of having deep conversations with a majority of the audience being missed. He recommends having a conversation once or twice and breaking it down for the audience to better understand.
**01:10:00 ** Jake in the UK discusses the concepts of soul, simplicity, and the western model of the soul. He explains that the western concept of soul is missing a gap in its understanding of what the human being is, and that the western concept of soul is based on duality. He encourages Muslims to appreciate the western concept of soul, and to have a deep conversation about soul and fitra.
**01:15:00 ** Jake in the UK discusses his thoughts on the current state of the YouTube community, and how he plans on helping to grow it. He also talks about his experience with other social media platforms, and how he prefers to use YouTube and Twitter.
**01:20:00 ** <>
**01:25:00 ** Jake in the UK discusses his upcoming trip to the UK, how he plans to get to 10,000 subscribers on YouTube, and how he is avoiding social media. He also shares a humorous story about a previous encounter with a hitchhiker.
**01:30:00 ** Jake from the UK discusses his experience as a Muslim convert and how he helps people with doubts or questions about Islam. He also mentions the Lighthouse Project, a free service that helps Muslims become better leaders or activists. Jake encourages people to subscribe to the Lighthouse Project's YouTube channel and follow the institute on social media.
**01:35:00 ** Jake provides information about the upcoming learning platform and three courses that will be available. One course is called "Awakening the Truth" and is an advanced training course. Another course is called "No Doubt 10 Effective Strategies" and is about how to deal with doubts and objections. The last course is called "The Rules of Engagement" and is about debating topics from the Qur'an perspective.
**01:40:00 ** Jake Shapiro, a Muslim scholar, has released a series of videos discussing his analysis of the Bible and Galatians. Jake assesses that Galatians is a poorly written letter and that it is not fit for Christians to abide by. He also discusses his plans to create a series of videos on the Islamic position on denigrating the prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam.

Full transcript with timestamps: CLICK TO EXPAND

0:00:41 assalamu alaikum 0:00:51 welcome to a random thought adventure 0:00:53 podcast 0:00:54 no one is aware that we're doing this 0:00:58 so we may 0:01:00 send an invite to them actually see if 0:01:02 they're free and they can jump up 0:01:04 and uh yeah so we just thought we'd do a 0:01:05 little random live stream we're 0:01:08 100 let me get all of this yeah 0:01:12 jump on my 0:01:14 use my 0:01:18 phone wi-fi 0:01:19 so yeah so brother jake is that let me 0:01:21 go i need to get rid of this sorry 0:01:24 yes brother jake's come to the uk 0:01:26 alhamdulillah he got here last night 0:01:29 it's silly o'clock and uh we sat around 0:01:33 eating chicken 0:01:35 and drinking milkshakes until stupid 0:01:38 o'clock 0:01:39 uh yeah so insha'allah we're getting to 0:01:43 one year 0:01:44 with the thought adventure podcast on 0:01:46 the 15th i think it is is it yeah 0:01:49 um but we've got a busy day on the 15th 0:01:51 so we're going to do something on the 0:01:52 first insha'allah allah we're gonna on 0:01:54 the first on the 16th 0:01:55 which is the next day 0:01:58 and uh the plan is inshallah we're going 0:02:00 to head down to speaker's corner which 0:02:02 should be frozen coming up bro 0:02:04 let me try and turn it on 0:02:06 i could just bloody send it to them 0:02:09 yeah but see if you can do it anyway 0:02:11 because i want to tweet it out tweet out 0:02:12 the link oh yeah 0:02:13 0:02:16 there we go 0:02:17 try again 0:02:21 okay let's see 0:02:24 see the plan is we're going to go to 0:02:26 speaker's corner 0:02:28 on the 16th 0:02:30 um we're going to try and get brother 0:02:32 sharif to come up we were trying to get 0:02:34 abdullah 0:02:35 well 0:02:37 yeah but he's 0:02:38 sold us out yeah yeah that's connected 0:02:41 thanks bro 0:02:42 so it might just be 0:02:43 me jake um sharif and then some other 0:02:47 duets 0:02:49 in inshallah um 0:02:50 0:02:52 yeah and so what we want to do hopefully 0:02:54 as well is we want to try and get to 10k 0:02:57 uh before then because what are we on at 0:02:59 the moment 0:03:01 i think we're on 0:03:02 99.77 7777 i hope that it's going up a 0:03:05 little bit yeah what are you guys doing 0:03:06 get us the 10k come on share the videos 0:03:09 let's do it insha allah so we just 0:03:12 thought we'd do a little random live 0:03:13 stream now 0:03:14 and see if we can get to 10k 0:03:16 um so there's going to be some recording 0:03:18 here so i'm not going to be able to do 0:03:19 it for too long 0:03:20 um if we don't listen guys if we don't 0:03:22 get to 10k 0:03:25 next week we're not doing a live stream 0:03:30 we have to strong-arm these guys what 0:03:32 are you guys doing 0:03:34 uh yeah let me share it to uh 0:03:38 on twitter 0:03:41 you know that's all group jump 0:03:50 should just threaten them jump on now or 0:03:52 forever 0:03:55 shrieve might be at work 0:04:01 so let's have a look at the chat and see 0:04:02 what people are saying 0:04:05 should we invite people on 0:04:07 as well yeah 0:04:11 so what we'll do 0:04:12 is we'll put the link there 0:04:17 and you guys can jump on as well if you 0:04:19 like insha'allah 0:04:21 let's go through the comments is jake 0:04:23 come in 0:04:25 yeah 0:04:26 i'm here guys if you haven't noticed 0:04:28 he's here good vibes 0:04:35 along to everyone who's given their 0:04:36 salams 0:04:55 no 0:04:57 no you know what it was i think it was 0:04:58 because 0:04:59 oh because well in the beginning yeah so 0:05:01 when i was doing that yeah maybe they 0:05:03 thought it was like two different 0:05:05 cameras yeah 0:05:07 or 0:05:08 uh something were on the same side of 0:05:10 the table 0:05:12 uh well i just got your notification 0:05:14 even though i haven't turned on the belt 0:05:16 icon brad brap go youtube 0:05:19 throw in our 0:05:21 wait say why is the notifications not 0:05:23 turned on i know what are you doing i 0:05:24 know it is okay are you dressing 0:05:26 yourself up can we turn the 0:05:27 notifications on hit the bell and press 0:05:30 all and whenever thought adventure does 0:05:32 a live stream in shortland you'll get a 0:05:34 notification vandalists always coming 0:05:36 through with the who's winning have you 0:05:38 noticed that 0:05:39 everything i 0:05:40 know every time comes on and writes 0:05:43 who's winning me that's not a debate 0:05:45 well it's his thing now he's gotta sort 0:05:47 of maintain it if he ever stops exactly 0:05:49 then it'll just be weird 0:05:52 so yeah you've got to keep that up 0:05:54 from now on inshaallah um 0:05:57 glad to see jake is in the uk 0:06:01 when is your next stream yes sir um 0:06:04 when you guys get us to 10k that's it 0:06:06 yeah it gets the 10k yeah that's the 10k 0:06:08 share to stream share the uh channel 0:06:11 if you don't there won't be a next 0:06:13 stream guys yeah i'm sorry to tell you 0:06:15 but um 0:06:16 there was going to be one 0:06:18 last sunday but like i've not been able 0:06:20 to jump on just because i've been a bit 0:06:22 hectic with my moving yeah um 0:06:25 abdul rahman was ill 0:06:28 you weren't sharif and sharif wasn't 0:06:29 feeling well and you i was just busy he 0:06:32 was busy to getting ready for for here 0:06:34 coming to london yeah so yeah 0:06:36 everything's been a bit hectic which is 0:06:38 why we we've not done one yet 0:06:41 um and we've got a long list of things 0:06:44 we that we intend to do there was a 0:06:46 brother i was talking to he was asking 0:06:47 us to do one 0:06:48 on um 0:06:50 abstract objects and allah's society 0:06:54 and the relation between allah and 0:06:55 abstract object that might be an 0:06:57 interesting one 0:06:58 yeah um 0:07:00 i think dr saf actually wrote a paper on 0:07:02 that so it might be good to bring him on 0:07:04 for that yeah yeah 0:07:05 yeah 0:07:07 and uh oh 0:07:09 maybe we should make an announcement we 0:07:10 already did on twitter but um 0:07:13 we're having josh rasmussen come on oh 0:07:16 no bro 0:07:18 we've just done a teaser no we've not 0:07:20 said it explicitly who's coming on i 0:07:22 know he is but we were just teasing 0:07:24 people who did the um 0:07:27 let me see how we posted it because i 0:07:28 told him to just go 0:07:30 that's rasmussen 0:07:32 no context 0:07:34 no no contacts rasmussen did he not post 0:07:36 it like that because i'm going to go 0:07:37 absolutely mentally if he didn't 0:07:39 oh 0:07:39 anyway i just maybe reminded them 0:07:47 he posted 0:07:51 so i haven't posted it 0:07:53 no he definitely posted it bro 0:07:56 yeah okay i didn't even do what i told 0:07:59 him to do 0:08:00 he posted it like this that works yeah 0:08:03 yeah but then there's nothing there's no 0:08:05 yeah but come on yeah people know but he 0:08:08 was supposed to say 0:08:09 no context rasmussen 0:08:12 and then just post that and then let 0:08:14 people guess 0:08:16 all right well too bad well yes 0:08:19 so we've got some plenty with rasmussen 0:08:21 in sha'a as well um when is that for 0:08:25 uh 0:08:26 at the end of a few months i think 0:08:28 because he's busy next month i believe 0:08:30 it's in february is it that early i 0:08:32 believe so let me check 0:08:35 because i think i remember it being like 0:08:36 we had to book months and months in 0:08:38 advance 0:08:39 nah bro i think it's actually in 0:08:43 see 0:08:44 yeah february 24th 0:08:47 okay 0:08:48 it's not too far away yeah and a half 0:08:50 yeah pretty close so that's um that's on 0:08:52 the table which should be a really good 0:08:54 conversation what's the topic with him 0:08:57 um 0:09:00 um 0:09:03 i think it's gonna be a wide variety of 0:09:05 stuff yeah there's a lot we could talk 0:09:06 to him yeah so it should be good 0:09:08 inshaallah yeah um 0:09:10 yeah i mean we've got like just a huge 0:09:12 list of things of topics we want to 0:09:13 cover at some point so there's yeah 0:09:16 in short i'll keep your eyes out for the 0:09:18 um 0:09:20 you usually get that little thumbnail 0:09:22 book when we booked it 0:09:24 um 0:09:26 so you'll you'll notice it when we know 0:09:28 we we upload it 0:09:30 uh so early and unexpected yeah 0:09:33 we've um we got up early we went because 0:09:35 we've got breakfast at the hotel 0:09:38 so we went and had the breakfast and now 0:09:41 we're just sort of waiting in here 0:09:42 because we're gonna do some recording 0:09:43 today 0:09:45 um 0:09:47 for sapience 0:09:49 uh 0:09:50 we're just sort of waiting on the 0:09:51 brothers to arrive so we've got a bit of 0:09:53 time to kill so we thought why not let's 0:09:55 try to get to 10k 0:09:57 so if you've not subscribed already 0:09:58 please subscribe if you've not shared 0:10:00 please share 0:10:02 and uh 0:10:03 make sure to turn on your notifications 0:10:05 and hit the bell and turn them all on 0:10:08 team crumpets we didn't we had zero 0:10:10 percent t and zero percent crumpets oh 0:10:13 yeah uh 0:10:16 glory metaphysician united 0:10:21 where's your muslim metaphysician hat 0:10:23 it's in my suitcase actually 0:10:26 i haven't even emptied my suitcase 0:10:28 uh 0:10:30 coming to jakarta indonesia yeah oh that 0:10:32 would be nice 0:10:33 yeah in shock 0:10:35 because i was just talking about um 0:10:37 doing like a muslim travelers 0:10:39 show 0:10:40 where like we go backpacking or 0:10:42 something and show people how to travel 0:10:46 and do backpacking you know like on a 0:10:48 shoestring or um 0:10:49 on a budget i thought that make a really 0:10:51 cool series 0:10:52 and uh and we i was telling him about 0:10:54 this other idea i had where i don't know 0:10:55 if any of you have seen it there's a tv 0:10:57 show called the island with bear grylls 0:10:59 where he just throws a bunch of people 0:11:00 on an island and they've got to try to 0:11:02 survive 0:11:04 and i was talking how good of an idea it 0:11:06 would be to just get like 0:11:08 a collection of uh of the dua or the you 0:11:10 know the dollar guys 0:11:12 and to just throw them on some island 0:11:14 somewhere and they've got to try to live 0:11:15 there for like a month 0:11:17 and like they've got to fend for 0:11:19 themselves and hunt their own food and 0:11:22 build shelter and find water and just 0:11:24 sort of survive on a desert island 0:11:26 somewhere i thought that'd be really 0:11:28 cool maybe jakarta 0:11:30 might have a couple of desert islands we 0:11:32 can 0:11:33 we can jump on in 0:11:37 uh 0:11:38 none of your beeswax no joking um 0:11:41 he's sweden in sweden yeah 0:11:43 uh 0:11:45 jake would you try 0:11:47 taking on those uh oh yeah those jokers 0:11:51 no 0:11:52 sit down 0:11:54 come to australia bro where's your hat 0:11:56 guys i'm still wearing a hat and it's 0:11:58 red it's like 0:12:00 it's like 0:12:01 it's as if i got a ponytail or something 0:12:03 with no hat on all of a sudden 0:12:06 they don't know how to act uh i did put 0:12:08 the link out for people to jump on the 0:12:10 stream did you i think i did 0:12:13 maybe you should pin it 0:12:14 i i can't i need to be on the youtube 0:12:17 channel to be able to pin 0:12:19 oh not on the street i can do it yeah 0:12:22 what do you call it 0:12:25 speaker's corner will be interesting it 0:12:27 will be insha allah i've got my goal 0:12:29 next week guys 0:12:31 yeah 16 taps coming through 0:12:34 inshallah 0:12:36 that usually as well if um if you go on 0:12:38 youtube and you search 0:12:40 speaker's corner and you pull up the 0:12:42 live so if you go on the filter you can 0:12:44 just 0:12:45 um have live 0:12:47 there's usually like two or three people 0:12:49 walk around speakers corner with live 0:12:50 cameras if you jump on that as well on 0:12:52 the 16th you might just get 0:12:54 like a quick peek i was there busting 0:12:56 about 0:12:59 um 0:13:00 welcome jake 0:13:02 uh there's another person asking about 0:13:04 your hat 0:13:06 jake how are you doing 0:13:08 good how are you doing how was your 0:13:09 flight it's good man 0:13:12 good hunger now any trouble at uh 0:13:16 no 0:13:17 no no it was good nice and smooth 0:13:19 alhamdulillah 0:13:20 share and subscribe 0:13:23 that's exactly what you want to do i am 0:13:25 already subscribed 0:13:27 and sharing it masha'allah 0:13:29 knowing them 0:13:31 knowing them fam knowing i'm last name 0:13:35 somebody said jake without the hat is 0:13:37 like batman without the cape 0:13:42 which abdul rahman would you mean which 0:13:44 how many abdulrahmans are on adventure 0:13:47 there's one of those only one 0:13:50 all right guys 0:13:51 yeah it's not letting me pin the link 0:13:53 either but how many debates did jake 0:13:55 have seen surviving in the uk 0:13:58 zero 0:14:00 you gave me a bit of grief about being 0:14:01 from manchester yesterday yeah yeah we 0:14:03 nearly got into an argument 0:14:07 i'm not not any uh no 0:14:10 i think the brothers of yes thou will 0:14:12 come with you guys to speak yeah 0:14:13 inshallah inshallah we did actually hop 0:14:16 on the uh ef dollar stream yeah that was 0:14:18 really awkward last night very briefly 0:14:20 we were just like 0:14:24 and then we got off because the chicken 0:14:26 was arrived salaam alaikum 0:14:38 what are we talking about i have no idea 0:14:40 is there a topic 0:14:41 uh we're trying to get to 10k yeah we're 0:14:43 just bored yeah wait absolutely yeah 0:14:45 get to 10k great to see you um 0:14:48 you flew out where did you fly out of 0:14:51 newark 0:14:52 newark okay how was the weather there 0:14:54 when you flew out because i i saw you 0:14:56 posted a very snowy 0:14:58 white picture when you were leaving 0:15:01 yeah yeah that was like the day before 0:15:03 so we just had six inches of snow 0:15:06 on a couple days ago yeah 0:15:09 yeah we've just pretty cold we've got 0:15:11 six inches of rain over in this part of 0:15:13 the world 0:15:14 yeah we had the sedat on a call last 0:15:16 night and he's in canada and he's he is 0:15:19 minus 18 out there oh subhanallah yeah 0:15:21 that's 0:15:22 like alaska weather man honestly i mean 0:15:24 18th centigrade yeah 0:15:27 i mean this is like seriously cold 0:15:29 yeah yeah i don't think i i'm i've been 0:15:31 complaining about how cold it is here 0:15:33 it's saturday 0:15:36 this is a cold man this is some compared 0:15:38 to what they're having yeah this is this 0:15:40 is nothing man 0:15:42 so i'm surprised uh jake you you don't 0:15:44 have jet lag yet or if you just did you 0:15:46 just stay up all night 0:15:49 uh now we i mean we stayed up pretty 0:15:51 late but then went to sleep uh yeah we 0:15:54 got up had breakfast and 0:15:56 we went back to the room at about two 0:15:58 a.m 0:15:59 yeah and uh 0:16:00 and then we were like 0:16:03 what's the time difference between where 0:16:05 you are and where you are now 0:16:07 five hours five okay so i guess you just 0:16:10 got your meal times just uh five hours 0:16:12 difference that's all 0:16:14 yeah you know yeah 0:16:18 so what's on your mind what's on the 0:16:20 agenda for today what are you planning 0:16:22 so 0:16:24 uh 0:16:25 i think adnan is going to be doing some 0:16:26 recording 0:16:28 says the sapience because we've got a 0:16:30 learning platform coming out 0:16:32 so we're just going to sort of like 0:16:33 shadow hamza and watch how he does it 0:16:36 because it's just going to be me jake 0:16:38 and then the cameraman 0:16:39 moving forward for the next couple of 0:16:41 weeks and so we've got to record his 0:16:42 courses for 0:16:44 uh problems with the trinity 0:16:46 and um 0:16:47 and then we're going to do mine as well 0:16:49 so 0:16:50 we're just going to be sort of seeing 0:16:52 how they do it 0:16:53 and then just sort of mimicking that and 0:16:56 getting everything prepared for the 0:16:57 learning platform for savings and 0:16:58 students 0:17:00 so wow fantastic well i wish you all the 0:17:02 best and i think i'm looking forward to 0:17:04 the courses of course 0:17:06 yeah 0:17:07 it's an amazing initiative and this 0:17:09 collaboration is i think really where 0:17:11 the dawah needs to go i mean in terms of 0:17:14 but also east west i think one of the 0:17:15 things we're doing with the darwise team 0:17:17 is actually we're trying to build some 0:17:18 relationships out to the far east as 0:17:20 well 0:17:21 which which largely is being ignored by 0:17:23 us 0:17:24 mostly because of lack of english but 0:17:27 these courses i think could reach out to 0:17:30 those regions as well yeah the plan is 0:17:32 is hopefully to get them sort of 0:17:34 translated into all the languages um 0:17:36 yeah which would be absolutely awesome 0:17:39 um 0:17:40 yeah so we're just trying to expand on 0:17:42 that but slowly slowly 0:17:44 get there eventually bit by bit 0:17:46 inshallah we'll go get there 0:17:48 0:17:50 so any and have you got so after the 0:17:51 tweaks have you got any planned 0:17:53 discussions or anything jake any any 0:17:55 sort of 0:17:57 interesting guests that we may 0:17:59 should look forward to 0:18:01 not right now although we did just 0:18:03 announce although i didn't know i missed 0:18:05 it okay 0:18:07 i wasn't supposed to we're gonna have uh 0:18:10 josh rasmussen 0:18:11 uh coming on tap he's a christian 0:18:15 philosopher 0:18:16 um but he mainly specializes in 0:18:19 contingency arguments and um 0:18:22 you know sort of philosophy of religion 0:18:24 discussing with atheists 0:18:26 so um he's a pretty big name and yeah 0:18:29 we're looking forward to having him on 0:18:31 next month inshallah 0:18:33 yeah hopefully it's going to be another 0:18:34 like um 0:18:36 conversation with uh malpass it's nice 0:18:39 yeah chill conversation yeah the malpass 0:18:41 discussion was actually quite 0:18:43 surprisingly 0:18:45 civil 0:18:46 yeah yeah actually i think it's 0:18:47 surprising mountpass is a cool guy um 0:18:50 he's not really one of the drama 0:18:52 people is he no so i was expecting it to 0:18:54 be a nice conversation 0:18:58 so hopefully this is going to be another 0:19:00 one like that but well not hopefully i 0:19:02 think it's pretty 0:19:03 much so yeah i mean so i think these 0:19:06 kinds of conversations where we keep the 0:19:08 temperament low we have sort of academic 0:19:12 nuanced discussions 0:19:14 uh for me i think are really taking the 0:19:16 tower to a new level 0:19:18 and to a new new audience as well 0:19:21 so 0:19:22 the work is appreciated immensely 0:19:24 and it also i think really sort of 0:19:27 i mean for me highlights 0:19:29 just how 0:19:31 low level 0:19:33 the playground polymix are from some of 0:19:35 the haters 0:19:36 right because you know to take the 0:19:38 effort that you do to understand the 0:19:40 other side i mean really understand it 0:19:42 i mean demonstrates a level of respect 0:19:44 that i think should be reciprocated 0:19:47 and by 0:19:48 you know by the playground politicians 0:19:51 or polemics it's not 0:19:53 and it's just i mean to me that's 0:19:54 insulting really at the end of the day i 0:19:56 mean that's an insult to 0:19:58 to the honesty of the discussion and the 0:20:00 integrity of the discussion 0:20:02 um and i think if this model works then 0:20:05 we could you know we would expand on it 0:20:08 expand on it absolutely yeah 0:20:10 what's the hope that's the whole point 0:20:11 with the thought adventure podcast as 0:20:12 well we wanted to have like a particular 0:20:14 kind of 0:20:16 way of doing these discussions 0:20:18 and um we tried a couple 0:20:21 maybe with the wrong characters um and 0:20:24 the conversations went well i think but 0:20:25 it was um 0:20:27 yeah i i i'm much more preferring these 0:20:29 conversations with likes like milepass 0:20:30 and i think the russian museum is gonna 0:20:32 be a good one as well and then shall i 0:20:34 just try to 0:20:36 keep getting guests on like that yeah 0:20:37 yeah and expand on so 0:20:40 so 0:20:40 i think what so one of the things we're 0:20:42 trying to do is really take the 0:20:44 decisions you're having 0:20:46 and sort of reinterpret them for the 0:20:48 next level down 0:20:49 yeah and that's really the goal so to 0:20:51 make sure we have almost like this sort 0:20:53 of waterfall effect 0:20:54 of where you really have the real high 0:20:56 level academic discussions then we sort 0:20:58 of reinterpret them for the next level 0:21:00 down break apart some of the 0:21:01 vocabularies and the language from the 0:21:03 theory and then represent it and we're 0:21:05 finding a lot of our audience with 0:21:07 otherwise in particular is appreciating 0:21:10 that sort of double click 0:21:12 yeah because some of the concepts you 0:21:14 guys go into and really unless you've 0:21:15 studied philosophy unless you've really 0:21:18 embedded yourself in this stuff for 0:21:20 years 0:21:21 it really sort of it goes over the heads 0:21:23 of many people you know i mean they're 0:21:25 small phrases but they're packed with so 0:21:28 much meaning 0:21:31 because that is something um 0:21:34 we're concerned about we do talk about 0:21:35 it quite a lot um because 0:21:38 the the difficulty is is when you're 0:21:39 trying to have a particular conversation 0:21:42 like you say a word or a particular 0:21:44 concept has a whole discussion behind it 0:21:47 exactly and if you want to try to 0:21:50 progress a particular conversation 0:21:52 you have to use that word to save you 0:21:55 having to go into a whole other 0:21:56 conversation yes like say like 0:21:59 epistemology is like a random one just 0:22:01 throw out there so epistemology is 0:22:02 obviously the study of 0:22:03 knowledge and stuff and using that word 0:22:06 and you just sort of throw it out there 0:22:08 um there's a lot you can say on that you 0:22:12 know there's a whole conversation just 0:22:13 about what epistemology is and the 0:22:15 different kind of things you're going 0:22:16 into 0:22:17 um but if you're trying to make a point 0:22:19 that's not necessarily related to that 0:22:21 whole 0:22:22 subject area it's just mentioning it 0:22:25 but it's still important in the point 0:22:27 you're making then you just have to use 0:22:28 the word epistemology because it's like 0:22:30 a shortcut yeah exactly i mean basically 0:22:32 when you study philosophy and when you 0:22:35 read 0:22:36 um the material on these subjects that 0:22:38 we're talking about that's essentially 0:22:40 what it is it's 0:22:42 it gives you a shorthand way 0:22:44 of expressing yourself so you use 0:22:46 terminology and there's like you said 0:22:48 you said there's a whole story behind 0:22:50 that and if you don't know the story 0:22:53 a lot of the the message is sort of lost 0:22:56 so it's very difficult to use 0:22:58 that shorthand terminology and at the 0:23:00 same time 0:23:02 explain everything that is you know 0:23:04 sort of behind that word and concept 0:23:07 especially for people who for the most 0:23:09 part let's be honest 0:23:11 not really reading anymore we're not 0:23:12 really reading that many books and you 0:23:15 know academic articles people are mostly 0:23:17 consuming most of their 0:23:19 knowledge and 0:23:21 learning from social media from youtube 0:23:24 from facebook from instagram from 0:23:27 uh 0:23:28 tick tock all the you know this is where 0:23:30 people 0:23:31 get their information even news and all 0:23:34 this different stuff so um 0:23:37 yeah it's really important to use it 0:23:39 properly 0:23:40 to try to educate and empower other 0:23:43 people 0:23:44 especially for the muslim audience 0:23:46 because that's 0:23:47 anyway really what my goal is yes and um 0:23:51 we're doing the best we can but yeah you 0:23:53 learn as you go along to try to refine 0:23:57 your way of presenting certain topics 0:23:59 you get feedback and say oh wait this 0:24:02 particular word really threw them off 0:24:04 they didn't really understand 0:24:06 you see so um 0:24:08 it's sort of trial and error yeah the 0:24:10 only thing i could really say as well is 0:24:12 just to have patience with it if you're 0:24:13 watching it and because some people they 0:24:15 get a bit disheartened 0:24:17 when they hear a lot of language that 0:24:18 they're not really familiar with and 0:24:19 they're like i don't know what that 0:24:20 means i don't know what that means yeah 0:24:21 and they just sort of give up but the 0:24:23 thing is is that we went through that 0:24:26 same process like my whole first year in 0:24:29 uni was just 0:24:30 banging me against the wall because yeah 0:24:32 i'm having to like 0:24:33 i've heard this word like a million 0:24:36 times 0:24:37 and i still don't really know if i 0:24:38 understand it like if someone was to ask 0:24:40 me to define it could i do that 0:24:43 um 0:24:44 you know and it's just a case of just 0:24:46 pushing through and the more you become 0:24:48 exposed to that language the more you 0:24:50 start to understand the context of it 0:24:52 and 0:24:53 how it fits in and you know what's being 0:24:55 communicated when you said it and it's 0:24:57 important because when you start getting 0:24:59 into certain conversations and they get 0:25:01 a bit more abstract you need to be able 0:25:03 to use these words to save time because 0:25:06 otherwise it just derails the 0:25:07 conversation like if we have to explain 0:25:10 what epistemology is or what ontology is 0:25:12 or blah 0:25:14 every time we say that word then we're 0:25:16 never going to really have the 0:25:17 conversation that we're trying to have 0:25:20 yeah no absolutely and you know the i 0:25:22 think the fundamental sort of i guess 0:25:25 challenge here 0:25:27 to have a connected conversation 0:25:30 that's still meaningful without losing 0:25:32 the audience 0:25:33 and that is a talent i mean that is a 0:25:35 real talent and i think you know jake i 0:25:37 think certainly from your earlier 0:25:38 discussions i think more recent ones 0:25:41 i think your conversations are certainly 0:25:42 more 0:25:44 comprehensible let me say 0:25:47 because i think earlier on i think i i 0:25:49 would sort of say it was 0:25:51 more jargon 0:25:53 less comprehension 0:25:54 and i think now i think as you 0:25:57 as you've sort of developed in your 0:25:58 channel and develops in the discussion 0:26:00 i'm noticing 0:26:01 that you're certainly more fluid in how 0:26:03 you're talking 0:26:04 and you're certainly more sort of 0:26:06 balanced in making sure the jargon is 0:26:08 balanced with some clarification 0:26:10 statements following it right yeah now 0:26:13 i i know i mean i understand when you're 0:26:15 talking to an academic 0:26:17 you really want to maintain the 0:26:18 conversation at a higher level because 0:26:20 it's important you you maintain the flow 0:26:24 but this is the thing i mean this is 0:26:25 what i think the audience needs to 0:26:27 understand is is the academic discussion 0:26:30 is there to get to a point 0:26:32 you need to get to a conclusion 0:26:35 otherwise you'll have had an hour and a 0:26:36 half of discussion or not really 0:26:37 achieved anything which is you know 0:26:39 pointless because everybody's busy so i 0:26:42 appreciate that and i think the audience 0:26:43 like you say i mean i'm with you yusuf i 0:26:44 think 0:26:46 the 0:26:48 the 0:26:49 discipline specific language aside i 0:26:52 think it's important people put the work 0:26:53 in 0:26:54 if you want to understand this stuff 0:26:57 then don't just listen to the program 0:26:59 yeah listen to it pause go do some 0:27:03 homework 0:27:04 come back and then listen to the next 0:27:05 section 0:27:06 yeah exactly 0:27:08 well you need to do the work you need to 0:27:09 do the work guys you know 0:27:11 because what what i had to do i had a 0:27:13 little notebook 0:27:15 and i'm not big on taking notes but if 0:27:17 there's words that kept popping up um 0:27:20 that i didn't understand i get them 0:27:22 defined and then just write them at the 0:27:23 back of this notebook yes and then if 0:27:26 the word kept popping up you just open 0:27:27 it and you just check it 0:27:29 and like if you're sort of binging on 0:27:31 our material for example you should be 0:27:33 doing stuff like that because the whole 0:27:35 point of it is it's 0:27:36 supposed to be a learning platform 0:27:38 you're supposed to be coming here to 0:27:39 learn it's not just like netflix it's 0:27:41 not 0:27:42 so 0:27:44 one of the first texts you get given 0:27:47 when you first do research is it's this 0:27:49 book 0:27:50 have you seen this 0:27:52 you're cutting it off 0:27:54 so 0:27:55 sociological paradigms and 0:27:57 organizational analysis 0:27:59 so this is in the world of business 0:28:01 right this is my background right this 0:28:02 is what i do working so one of the this 0:28:05 is one of the first texts you get given 0:28:07 and what it does it says basically what 0:28:10 are different world views people have 0:28:12 right when they look at a particular 0:28:14 topic 0:28:14 so before you even start the topic you 0:28:17 got to go do some work on 0:28:20 what does it mean to do certain things 0:28:22 so for example in your world you know 0:28:24 when you talk about good and evil and 0:28:26 and the philosophy of of ethics 0:28:30 you need to first of all ask well what's 0:28:31 the method ethical framework well what 0:28:33 does that mean that means 0:28:36 the word good 0:28:37 does it have any meaning intrinsic 0:28:39 meaning in of itself and where did it 0:28:40 come from why is it valuable 0:28:43 oh you can establish that then you move 0:28:45 but a lot of folks they don't understand 0:28:47 these nuances and so they they listen to 0:28:49 the conversation 0:28:51 and think you're repeating 0:28:53 the or think 0:28:55 things are being repeated when they're 0:28:56 not because they don't appreciate the 0:28:58 nuance 0:28:59 and i remember a great example one of my 0:29:01 um 0:29:03 professors gave me he said you know 0:29:06 he said look 0:29:07 at school 0:29:09 you're told 0:29:10 there is no square root of minus one 0:29:14 you get to higher mathematics 0:29:17 and you can't live without it 0:29:19 because the whole of 0:29:21 sort of 0:29:22 engineering and mathematics relies on 0:29:24 the idea of complex numbers 0:29:27 and so it isn't that it's useless 0:29:29 it's just that at the level of school 0:29:31 and at the level of education you get 0:29:32 sort of under under 16 0:29:35 it's just not important for you to 0:29:37 understand 0:29:38 how important this number is 0:29:41 when you get to the higher levels you 0:29:42 really sort of begin to appreciate how 0:29:44 intrinsic it is to a lot of really how 0:29:47 things are built and some of the 0:29:49 discussions you're having i think really 0:29:51 around some of the frameworks especially 0:29:53 the meta 0:29:55 dash framework discussions that you have 0:29:58 those are to me some of the most 0:29:59 important discussions really 0:30:01 because you because really what you're 0:30:03 demonstrating for the first time 0:30:05 is to really ask the question behind the 0:30:07 question 0:30:08 yeah 0:30:09 why are we having this discussion in the 0:30:10 first place 0:30:13 and 0:30:16 one moment 0:30:27 breakfast arrived did you order 0:30:29 something or maybe they ordered it again 0:30:31 let me check 0:30:33 we've got coffees that have arrived but 0:30:35 we didn't order anything yeah no but 0:30:37 it's it is 0:30:38 it's honestly 0:30:39 oh it is yeah yeah okay 0:30:42 yeah 0:30:42 all right thank you thank you very much 0:30:44 he probably just ordered it early thank 0:30:46 you no he's not even here he's not 0:30:47 talking about 0:30:48 so 0:30:53 let me ring him 0:30:55 but yeah no definitely um 0:30:58 sorry sorry that was a bit of a curve 0:31:00 so 0:31:01 what i was really getting onto was this 0:31:03 idea of i remember i know a lot of the 0:31:05 folks that can recall who especially the 0:31:07 atheists that come on let me just think 0:31:09 they come on 0:31:10 with a very pragmatic view 0:31:13 of some really fundamental concepts 0:31:16 and then really don't understand 0:31:18 that they need to justify them 0:31:20 and i think this word justify is 0:31:23 completely misunderstood by them 0:31:25 they really don't get what it means to 0:31:27 justify some of their views 0:31:30 well it's natural it's it's intuitive 0:31:33 okay but that's not good enough guys 0:31:36 you know i had that problem 0:31:38 yeah because it was a brother 0:31:40 he came on and he kept saying 0:31:42 um you know if if god is if a lot is 0:31:44 real as ojo 0:31:47 then wouldn't uh islam be the the 0:31:49 biggest religion 0:31:51 and i was like well why why would it be 0:31:53 he's like well it's obvious it's obvious 0:31:54 and then he just kept sort of like 0:31:56 reiterating the conclusion i was like no 0:31:58 no you just sort of i'm asking you why 0:32:00 like what are the what are the reasons 0:32:02 for you thinking that it's obvious 0:32:04 exactly i don't think yes i don't like 0:32:06 for me 0:32:07 truth isn't dependent upon how many 0:32:08 people are following it exactly 0:32:11 one person in the world believing it 0:32:13 and just because there's only one person 0:32:14 it doesn't follow from that 0:32:16 that it's not true or true 0:32:19 truth is is truth whether there's no 0:32:21 people 0:32:22 yeah i mean if it's if if it's objective 0:32:24 truth then whether we exist or don't 0:32:26 exist that truth is truth 0:32:29 and exactly 0:32:30 people don't people don't get that and 0:32:32 to me i think i find that quite funny 0:32:34 actually when i listen to them because 0:32:36 usually they come on really gunko 0:32:38 you know blah blah blah i have 0:32:41 and then then you sort of slowly sort of 0:32:43 take them down to sort of but what are 0:32:45 your foundational justifications for 0:32:47 doing this and it's like well it's 0:32:49 natural isn't it 0:32:50 yeah no but that's not good enough guys 0:32:52 so so i think those discussions to me 0:32:55 have been very enlightening in terms of 0:32:57 how 0:32:59 um 0:33:01 what what what's the word how shaky 0:33:05 the so-called foundations of this 0:33:07 atheist logic is exactly yeah and that's 0:33:10 it's very important because 0:33:13 and 0:33:14 some people even some muslims don't 0:33:16 understand 0:33:18 when listening to me discuss with 0:33:21 atheists or argue with them 0:33:23 is you have to start off with their um 0:33:27 sort of epistemological assumptions 0:33:30 right 0:33:30 these different things that we're 0:33:31 talking about whether it be scientism 0:33:34 or um 0:33:35 their approach to knowledge in general 0:33:38 right because 0:33:39 if they have a totally different way of 0:33:42 looking at these things 0:33:44 you can't you can't really get anywhere 0:33:46 about discussing 0:33:48 god or islam the quran 0:33:52 you got to start like with baby steps at 0:33:54 the very basic to say look 0:33:57 okay you're coming at it from this angle 0:33:59 and you're right brother muhammad they 0:34:01 always come in very strong and like you 0:34:03 know 0:34:04 matter of fact as if whatever they're 0:34:06 saying is just uh 0:34:08 sort of gospel gospel so to speak and 0:34:11 which is incredibly ironic yeah yeah 0:34:15 right 0:34:16 and um 0:34:18 and so you got to knock them down a peg 0:34:20 and and say 0:34:22 listen buddy you think that you're like 0:34:25 on this magnificent palace with a great 0:34:28 foundation 0:34:29 but really your entire foundation is 0:34:31 built upon sand yes and i always give 0:34:34 this analogy because 0:34:35 uh that's my experience with atheists 0:34:38 hello hello hello 0:34:40 uh that's coming out one 0:34:43 okay yeah are you live yeah 0:34:58 so have you guys paid your rent for 0:35:00 using our office for this one 0:35:02 no 0:35:03 i'm only joking i'm only joking 0:35:06 so how many can brothers and sisters you 0:35:08 guys carry on i'm gonna have my coffee 0:35:09 and stuff no problem 0:35:10 yeah it's right there brother second i 0:35:12 got your coffee you got all right 0:35:14 i'm sleeping with some coffee no i'm 0:35:15 good you sure yeah there's something 0:35:17 next door no no i don't drink coffee 0:35:19 really yeah he's a weird one 0:35:22 i said that too 0:35:25 you know so 0:35:26 what i would i mean the analogy i often 0:35:28 think of when i when i watch these guys 0:35:30 is they turn up to a football match 0:35:33 with a tennis racket 0:35:35 right 0:35:36 and they think 0:35:38 because it's a ball game 0:35:41 they they seem to think that whatever 0:35:44 kit they've brought along is good enough 0:35:46 for the game they're going into yeah 0:35:48 they're bringing in a nice a gun show 0:35:50 well well i didn't want to use that but 0:35:52 but 0:35:53 let's use the exact so they turn up to 0:35:54 football match with a tennis racket 0:35:56 saying well it's a ball game right 0:35:58 what's the issue 0:35:59 oh yeah 0:36:00 you know do you understand so 0:36:02 so the goal here is first of all you've 0:36:03 got to tell them yes it's a ball game 0:36:05 but let's understand do you understand 0:36:07 the concept of ball first of all 0:36:09 because the ball we're talking about is 0:36:11 different to the ball you're talking 0:36:12 about yeah it's funny how all these 0:36:14 things yeah 0:36:15 because i was having this conversation 0:36:16 with someone the other day 0:36:18 and i was talking about like like for 0:36:20 example if two people were using the 0:36:22 word atom but you've got someone from 0:36:24 like ancient greece and then you've got 0:36:26 like a modern scientist and they're both 0:36:28 they're both using this word atom atom 0:36:30 and they're debating and arguing with 0:36:32 each other and 0:36:33 saying what you can do and what you 0:36:34 can't do with the atom 0:36:36 and um but in the they're not using the 0:36:38 word in the same way like atom for the 0:36:40 ancient greeks well what i was just 0:36:42 telling you about she was talking about 0:36:44 that earlier 0:36:47 what was i saying um 0:36:49 yeah for the ancient greeks the atom was 0:36:51 that which was indivisible yeah they 0:36:54 were talking about like the most 0:36:55 fundamental 0:36:57 party party yes yeah whereas today 0:36:59 that's not what it means we know like 0:37:01 because the atom 0:37:02 has been 0:37:05 split yes um well we know that because 0:37:08 of nuclear weapons etcetera yeah so the 0:37:10 word is the same 0:37:11 but it's it's that it has a different 0:37:13 definition and so if you're not having 0:37:15 the conversation about what do you mean 0:37:17 when you use this word exactly what do 0:37:19 you mean when you say atom if you forget 0:37:22 that which is the most important bit and 0:37:24 just have a debate with each other about 0:37:26 it blah blah blah wow you're not even 0:37:27 talking about the same thing absolutely 0:37:29 right and so there may not actually be a 0:37:31 disagreement with certain things 0:37:34 um you just 0:37:35 think you are because you're just making 0:37:37 this assumption the other person means 0:37:38 the same thing when they use this word 0:37:40 so like when and this happens a lot when 0:37:42 you're talking to atheists especially 0:37:43 when they come from like a western 0:37:45 background and they have like a maybe a 0:37:47 christian history of some sort 0:37:49 um they are constantly thinking of this 0:37:52 about you know the sky daddy sort of 0:37:54 typical image you see on the roofs of 0:37:56 church 0:37:57 um that kind of god and when 0:38:00 you know as muslims we don't believe 0:38:01 that we don't believe in this sort of 0:38:03 typical 0:38:05 uh old gray beard man in the sky sort of 0:38:08 thing um yeah so it this is where the 0:38:11 the fundamental conversation comes in 0:38:13 like you clarify what you mean by the 0:38:16 the words you're using um you know what 0:38:18 what is your foundation for things how 0:38:21 do you see the world 0:38:23 try to find the middle ground this is 0:38:25 what um you brothers were doing when uh 0:38:27 having a conversation with aaron 0:38:30 it was just trying to establish a common 0:38:32 ground so that you know you're having 0:38:33 the same conversation so you know that 0:38:35 you're discussing the same thing and 0:38:37 you're not just talking over each other 0:38:40 and you know i often use the analogy of 0:38:42 it's like asking the goldfish does he 0:38:45 know what water is 0:38:48 right yes 0:38:50 because you're born into this thing i 0:38:52 i'm talking about this sort of secular 0:38:55 western 0:38:56 sort of post-enlightenment atheistic 0:38:58 framework 0:39:00 and you just imbibe it you just absorb 0:39:02 it 0:39:03 and you don't even realize you're living 0:39:04 in it 0:39:06 right and then somebody comes to you and 0:39:07 says so what are your core beliefs and 0:39:09 it's like what do you mean core beliefs 0:39:11 this is just what reality is yeah and 0:39:14 it's like they're in this goldfish bowl 0:39:16 they're born into this sort of water 0:39:19 and they don't realize water is water 0:39:20 and there's actually another world out 0:39:22 there where there is no water and 0:39:23 actually things can exist in this thing 0:39:25 and 0:39:26 um yeah exactly and so i think that 0:39:30 conversation needs to be had with a 0:39:32 number of the people that come on the on 0:39:34 the program but i think a number of our 0:39:36 sort of audience needs to also 0:39:37 appreciate that 0:39:38 those discussions are very important in 0:39:40 on the street as well you know when you 0:39:42 come across individuals it's important 0:39:44 to ask them so 0:39:46 what do you mean when you when when we 0:39:48 say the word for example simple words 0:39:50 like god 0:39:51 worship prophet 0:39:53 uh what does it mean by message what 0:39:54 does it mean by revelation 0:39:56 because even these simple words actually 0:39:58 have different meanings depending on 0:40:00 where they come from and the baggage 0:40:02 they're bringing to the discussion 0:40:04 yeah definitely definitely and you shall 0:40:06 look fantastic 0:40:08 bringing it back to what we were talking 0:40:09 about with our channel as well so when 0:40:11 we have these conversations and they 0:40:12 might go over people's heads 0:40:14 um we i we probably should do it a bit 0:40:17 more as well to be honest where we break 0:40:19 down 0:40:20 certain parts so we try to do reviews 0:40:22 yeah and it might even be worth just not 0:40:24 just doing reviews of the whole video 0:40:26 but of a particular part where there's a 0:40:28 particular thing being said right we can 0:40:30 just break that down and spend i don't 0:40:32 know 10 20 minutes talking about a 0:40:34 particular 0:40:35 element or 0:40:37 section offer yes so i did actually have 0:40:40 i remember the um the discussion um the 0:40:44 with jordan peterson 0:40:46 um where he said something and i was 0:40:49 gonna ask you actually yusuf about it 0:40:52 because he mentioned some very bizarre 0:40:54 concepts all in one paragraph 0:40:57 that had completely no relationship with 0:40:59 each other and i i i think he was just 0:41:01 babbling at that point to be honest with 0:41:03 you 0:41:04 it might not 0:41:19 yeah i can't here we go 0:41:22 because i sort of highlighted it 0:41:24 um 0:41:25 as a 0:41:27 what was it in a an article or something 0:41:29 no no this was in the mohammed hijab 0:41:31 peter 0:41:33 0:41:35 and what he basically said was 0:41:41 yeah there we go he he mixed 0:41:43 yeah that was so it was at 0:41:46 um let me share my screen if i can share 0:41:49 my screen here very quickly 0:41:53 um actually downloaded the the text and 0:41:55 i was going this is just crazy man um 0:41:58 where are we 0:42:00 are you getting that up everyone who 0:42:01 hasn't subscribed do so now because 0:42:03 we're nearly at 10k are we 0:42:06 uh yeah oh i thought we 0:42:08 were saying we're getting closer as 0:42:10 we're on the stream i don't know where 0:42:11 we'll find out now i'll have a look 0:42:13 we're at 97 0:42:15 hundred 0:42:16 yeah if we don't get into seven kills 0:42:19 come on guys another couple of hundred 0:42:20 and we're almost there i mean this is 0:42:22 just i don't know if it's not on 0:42:24 yeah um 0:42:26 we need to get it it's not even sure 0:42:28 i know man what's going on so by the way 0:42:31 i i by the way i'm at work right now so 0:42:34 oh my god naughty 0:42:37 hello 0:42:39 um 0:42:46 or something um 0:42:48 which one am i sharing this one 0:42:50 you'll say that or you have taken an 0:42:52 earlier oh yeah i know i have 0:42:56 look i work from home yes so can you see 0:42:58 my screen here this one yeah yeah yeah 0:43:01 the excel you see the excel spreadsheet 0:43:02 thing 0:43:03 yeah there we go yeah so 0:43:06 this is at like 2633 0:43:09 and and he sort of comes in and says him 0:43:12 really he says yes so okay let me tell 0:43:13 you something about things i've been 0:43:15 thinking about in relationship to i can 0:43:16 play the video if you want that might be 0:43:18 better yeah i just want to say bro your 0:43:20 notes game is 0:43:23 uh that is top notch 0:43:27 you need to 0:43:28 show me your methodology for taking 0:43:31 notes 0:43:32 okay so good uh are we seeing my screen 0:43:35 here now no let me share my screen again 0:43:37 let me just 0:43:38 there we go it's come through you need 0:43:40 to make sure you share the audio as well 0:43:41 yeah i'll share the audio as well um 0:43:46 do you want me to unshare let me just 0:43:48 stop sharing and learn to share again 0:43:50 with with sound 0:43:52 um 0:43:56 yeah too many windows 0:44:01 share screen 0:44:04 yeah we had 0:44:06 a full english he nearly went for the 0:44:09 pork by accident because i told him 0:44:10 about the veggie sausages 0:44:12 and he didn't realize 0:44:15 which ones are the veggie sausages he 0:44:16 was over by the bacon section 0:44:18 no 0:44:21 don't eat the bacon so 0:44:23 can we share the sound here this one 0:44:25 yeah yeah yeah of course yeah yeah but 0:44:26 just answer carlos as well um so that is 0:44:29 the planning challenge we're going to 0:44:30 try and do it on the 16th so hopefully 0:44:32 we get to 10k before then 0:44:34 um so we're just going to keep plugging 0:44:36 it as often as we can in all the live 0:44:38 streams if you're doing until now and 0:44:39 then 0:44:40 inshallah 0:44:42 so just for the folks um 0:44:44 the context of this part of the 0:44:46 conversation 0:44:47 yeah was that muhammadi job has just 0:44:50 finished a very very short 0:44:53 overview of the seerah 0:44:55 so remember in the conversation he gave 0:44:57 a very quick overview of why 0:45:00 is the prophet 0:45:02 the trials and tribulations that he went 0:45:03 through and they briefly discussed 0:45:05 isaiah 42 11.0:45:07 and then he sort of basically said well 0:45:11 uh jordan peterson then comes in and 0:45:13 says well you know 0:45:14 that's another point but let me try and 0:45:16 talk a little bit about why i believe 0:45:18 what i believe so this is the beast when 0:45:20 he talks about this okay let me 0:45:22 let me if you can hear this 0:45:24 so let me let me tell you about some 0:45:26 things i've been thinking about yeah 0:45:29 eye contact 0:45:30 whoa damn ads man 0:45:33 a lot of eye contact 0:45:37 well 0:45:38 you know that 0:45:39 nietzsche announced the death of god in 0:45:41 the late 1800s and 0:45:44 you know what the consequences of that 0:45:46 being have been at least to some degree 0:45:48 and of course dostoevsky was talking 0:45:50 about exactly the same things at pretty 0:45:51 much exactly the same time but 0:45:53 the 0:45:54 philosopher of religion merce eliad 0:45:57 in his historical investigations 0:45:59 indicated that 0:46:01 the the death of god is something that 0:46:03 has happened to many cultures in many 0:46:05 places over many times it's not a unique 0:46:07 event in let's say western history 0:46:11 and his explanation for that at least in 0:46:13 part was that 0:46:15 as there's a movement towards 0:46:17 unification under a monotheistic 0:46:20 umbrella let's say which is perhaps a 0:46:22 precondition for the union of diverse 0:46:24 people 0:46:26 the 0:46:27 the one of the consequences of that is 0:46:29 that that central unifying 0:46:32 value becomes so abstracted because it 0:46:34 has to cover such a multiplicity it 0:46:36 becomes so abstracted that it becomes 0:46:38 sufficiently 0:46:40 it flies away in some he called that 0:46:42 deos abscondis if i remember correctly 0:46:44 is that the idea of the spirit just 0:46:46 flies away because it no longer has an 0:46:48 attachment to the world 0:46:50 and one of the ways that christianity 0:46:52 solved that if you think about it from a 0:46:54 psychological perspective was by 0:46:58 was by insisting upon the presence of 0:47:00 god 0:47:02 in a canonic form right in an emptied 0:47:04 form in a partially emptied form in the 0:47:07 person of christ in a particular place 0:47:09 at a particular time and it's it's a 0:47:11 variant of the prophetic idea although 0:47:14 taken to its absolute extreme the 0:47:16 prophetic idea is that there are people 0:47:18 who are marked out in history marked out 0:47:20 by god by their relationship with what's 0:47:22 highest in some spectacular manner 0:47:25 and so 0:47:27 i guess one of the things i would say 0:47:28 about 0:47:29 the the islamic islamic resistance to 0:47:31 the idea of the divinity of christ is 0:47:34 that 0:47:34 there is an emphasis on islam on the 0:47:37 special status of prophets of certain 0:47:40 prophets and their particular special 0:47:43 relationship with god which seems to 0:47:44 elevate them 0:47:46 above other men in some important sense 0:47:48 and so and drawing a line precisely 0:47:50 between that claim and the claim of 0:47:52 divinity incarnate is not an easy matter 0:47:55 so 0:47:56 i i would actually disagree with that 0:47:59 so 0:48:01 so he brings in the idea of nietzsche 0:48:03 day of subscribers 0:48:05 canosis 0:48:06 he starts off by trying to justify and 0:48:08 defend christianity 0:48:11 what what do you think he was trying to 0:48:13 try to say here what was he actually 0:48:15 trying to say here so he opened up with 0:48:19 talking about how 0:48:20 like a multiplicity of information 0:48:23 because of this sort of 0:48:25 like you know collect did you you 0:48:27 mentioned multiculturalism or something 0:48:28 at one point anyway so you got like a 0:48:30 collection of people from different 0:48:31 places with different beliefs 0:48:33 and that sort of confuses or muddles the 0:48:35 picture 0:48:36 to some degree 0:48:37 and that's what sort of motivates the 0:48:39 death of god and which is why it's 0:48:41 happened plenty of times because there's 0:48:42 been plenty of times when multiple 0:48:44 cultures have sort of 0:48:45 um 0:48:47 met in some sort of mixing pot 0:48:49 i'm guessing like metropolitan areas or 0:48:52 large cities 0:48:54 throughout history and 0:48:56 then he moved from that 0:48:58 to talking about 0:49:00 dostoyevsky 0:49:02 yeah yeah 0:49:05 yeah so i don't see dostoevsky 0:49:07 and eliad 0:49:09 i don't see the relationship there 0:49:14 elliott 0:49:16 so okay i guess he's mentioning them 0:49:18 because they were commenting on 0:49:21 the dossiers 0:49:22 yeah dostoyevsky had a similar idea in 0:49:25 terms of 0:49:26 because for nietzsche it wasn't just the 0:49:28 death of god was just not god doesn't 0:49:31 exist it was 0:49:32 you know objective morality goes out the 0:49:35 window objective meaning 0:49:38 all of these different things and uh 0:49:40 dostoyevsky was essentially making the 0:49:42 same point so 0:49:44 i think that's what he was saying yeah 0:49:46 and then he moved from that 0:49:48 to talking about 0:49:51 the vacuum or something what was it no 0:49:54 deos have conditions so you know where 0:49:57 god is absent right 0:49:59 yeah 0:50:00 but but 0:50:02 and the reason and the reason he says 0:50:04 that is amazing 0:50:06 sorry 0:50:07 he wants to jump in oh okay 0:50:10 welcome 0:50:12 i'm just gonna um just comment because 0:50:14 usually when something comes in my head 0:50:16 i'm using it quite sometimes when it 0:50:18 comes to these issues i have to say 0:50:19 something so i did ask permission 0:50:21 um 0:50:22 i think he made complete 0:50:24 sense but i think it's the problem is 0:50:27 you have to understand his own 0:50:28 background 0:50:30 uh journey as well so 0:50:32 what he's trying to say is 0:50:34 and this is obviously my interpretation 0:50:36 right he's trying to say that 0:50:38 the death of god in a knee-chained sense 0:50:40 which is the death of god god doesn't 0:50:42 exist in people's hearts anymore 0:50:45 that happens as a result of 0:50:47 monotheism because monotheism has a 0:50:50 power of bringing different people 0:50:52 together under the kind of monotheistic 0:50:54 umbrella but becomes so valuable that he 0:50:57 basically flies away as he says and it 0:50:59 becomes abstract to the degree that it's 0:51:02 not connected to the divine anymore it's 0:51:03 not spirit it's not it's not connected 0:51:05 to the spirit anymore 0:51:07 so what he was subtly trying to say was 0:51:08 is that actually christianity deals with 0:51:10 the problem of secularism and islam 0:51:12 doesn't i think because what he's saying 0:51:13 is it's and that's why he mentioned 0:51:15 other thinkers because he's saying it's 0:51:18 not just western societies all societies 0:51:20 that have the problem of the death of 0:51:21 god because they do so well 0:51:24 or they are solving a particular social 0:51:26 political problem that people are united 0:51:28 and this idea becomes so abstracted away 0:51:30 from the divine because it works to that 0:51:32 degree they forget that where it came 0:51:34 from 0:51:36 he's basically saying that this is why 0:51:38 you have you know a 0:51:40 a divine vacuum from that perspective 0:51:42 there is no no link to the divine 0:51:43 anymore he says christianity solves that 0:51:46 problem by the whole i want and then you 0:51:48 understand the kenosis so he brings in 0:51:50 kenosis for that yes so in actual fact 0:51:53 he he made a hell of a lot of sense in a 0:51:55 very short concise way only if you know 0:51:57 what he's trying to get at so he was 0:51:59 subtly in my view trying to say well you 0:52:01 know muslims have got the death of god 0:52:03 now maybe and this is just my you know 0:52:05 protraction of his argument 0:52:07 death of god is in your societies right 0:52:09 it's just you know surfaces it's lost 0:52:11 its kind of connect connection to the 0:52:13 divine just because you know you guys 0:52:15 just moving on as you are culturally and 0:52:18 then he's saying 0:52:19 that actually maybe the the concept of 0:52:22 jesus actually tries to solve that 0:52:23 problem he tried to link it with 0:52:25 obviously our understanding of prophets 0:52:27 and the elevated status which i think 0:52:29 was obviously a problem um but in terms 0:52:32 of the whole 0:52:33 you know abstraction idea i thought it 0:52:34 was really smart so it's like an 0:52:36 anthropo uh anthropology perhaps yes so 0:52:40 he's dealing from a 0:52:41 kind of macro social psychological point 0:52:44 of view how it affects the individual 0:52:45 because you know take take ah just 0:52:47 reflect on our society in britain you 0:52:49 know we have a secular liberal society 0:52:52 and in a second liberal society you 0:52:54 can't trace many of these ideals to 0:52:55 tradition right 0:52:57 in some way even though maybe you know 0:53:00 it could be a misplacement of tradition 0:53:02 or whatever the case may be 0:53:04 but there is even our intuitions even 0:53:07 now and that's definitely changing our 0:53:09 iterations of some forms of 0:53:12 you 0:53:12 know deontological ethics or believing 0:53:16 that some things are you know morally 0:53:18 real moral realism to a certain degree 0:53:20 you know those things have set some kind 0:53:22 of grounding in scripture or some 0:53:24 grounding in a spiritual tradition or in 0:53:26 a religious tradition but people have 0:53:28 forgot that you know 0:53:30 even islam that you could you could you 0:53:32 could link 0:53:34 law western law 0:53:36 to the madahib the rule of law to the 0:53:38 madahip like the islamic tradition 0:53:41 has influenced the world in such a 0:53:43 profound way in so many ways and one 0:53:45 would even argue things like uh you know 0:53:49 innocent being innocent before your 0:53:52 before you dictate guilty right that 0:53:55 according to uh i forgot his name now 0:53:57 but 0:53:57 there is a paper that was written in the 0:53:59 80s 0:54:00 that he cites king louis the ninth 0:54:03 a 0:54:04 a monk or some learned person going to 0:54:06 the east 0:54:07 and he basically 0:54:10 and he basically goes to this uh learned 0:54:12 muslim person and he learns something 0:54:14 that looks like a hadith on this issue 0:54:16 he goes back and i think it was either 0:54:18 kingly in the ninth or someone who 0:54:19 influenced king lou the ninth and then 0:54:21 after that they started forming an idea 0:54:23 of you know 0:54:25 you go you don't assume people are 0:54:26 guilty 0:54:27 because that came from the christian 0:54:28 tradition in a way because you have 0:54:30 inherent sin but in the islamic 0:54:32 tradition we're inherently good to a 0:54:34 certain degree because of our fitra 0:54:36 and yeah so it's very interesting i mean 0:54:38 there's more time back there i have to 0:54:39 bring the reference so 0:54:41 that's what i want to say bro 0:54:45 only if you know how to connect his dots 0:54:46 if you've been following him i guess 0:54:48 so my take on this my take on this was 0:54:52 in a way i mean so i don't i mean i 0:54:54 agree with everything you've said by the 0:54:56 way 0:54:56 but i think in a way he was 0:54:58 demonstrating why profithood is 0:55:01 necessary 0:55:03 right why we needed to have profits over 0:55:05 the years 0:55:06 nice yeah this was my take on this right 0:55:09 because what he said is if you have 0:55:11 repeated ages 0:55:13 of where the practice supersedes the 0:55:16 spirituality 0:55:18 and you forget the spirituality 0:55:20 then you actually end up on a path of 0:55:22 divergence 0:55:23 and then then god allah has to 0:55:26 almost become imminent again to remind 0:55:28 you and the imminence in christianity 0:55:31 is obviously the kenosis the emptying 0:55:34 and god became man but the imminence for 0:55:36 us is profited 0:55:38 yes because because that's how we are 0:55:40 reminded 0:55:41 that we've diverted and we've become 0:55:43 lost 0:55:44 so i think 0:55:45 i mean look 0:55:47 i wanted to bring it on because because 0:55:49 he brought in so many concepts and when 0:55:50 you unpack it you realize that in a in a 0:55:53 strange kind of way he was actually 0:55:55 justifying the necessary need for the 0:55:58 mbr and the line of prophethood 0:56:00 yeah absolutely and what's what that's 0:56:03 that's very insightful 0:56:04 uh and what's interesting is from the 0:56:07 islamic perspective the sunnah is 0:56:09 actually a living tradition exactly 0:56:12 you can't really argue that with the 0:56:14 person the person of christ in the 0:56:17 christian tradition in terms of you know 0:56:19 you could possibly write everything he 0:56:21 said down on half a a4 piece of paper 0:56:24 right 0:56:25 um but with the islamic tradition with 0:56:27 the sunnah it's actually living in every 0:56:28 aspect of your life 0:56:31 this is the thing so i think 0:56:33 the concept of transcendence is is given 0:56:36 i agree 0:56:37 but i think when they think of 0:56:39 transcendence and this disconnectedness 0:56:41 that they have which is the only way god 0:56:44 can be present is if he manifests itself 0:56:46 as ma as god on earth 0:56:49 then what what they've done in the 0:56:51 christians tradition is actually broken 0:56:53 the connection themselves because they 0:56:56 only get one go at it which is 0:56:58 at the time that jesus came that's the 0:57:00 only time to get that reminder whereas 0:57:02 for islam 0:57:04 in our tradition we've had it repeatedly 0:57:07 and we continue to have it repeatedly 0:57:09 because we still have the quran with us 0:57:11 yeah and the importance is the 0:57:13 preservation of the texts as well 0:57:15 exactly exactly so we haven't lost it 0:57:18 preserved whereas 0:57:19 theirs hasn't and so yes that's that's 0:57:22 the other issue but from a psychological 0:57:24 perspective if you think about just 0:57:26 bring it down to a jordan 0:57:29 from a psychological perspective there 0:57:32 is no really following the sunnah of isa 0:57:34 alaihissalam 0:57:36 of course exactly 0:57:37 it's not embedded in your social 0:57:39 structures not embedded in your psyche 0:57:41 it's just this abstract idea that some 0:57:44 person was sacrificed for me right which 0:57:46 hence pay or subscribe today or 0:57:49 subscribe if you would even argue that 0:57:51 is not a manifestation of maximal love 0:57:53 because maximal love because in the 0:57:56 christian and islamic tradition we 0:57:58 believe in the maximal perfection of the 0:57:59 divine and you know maximal love is not 0:58:03 basically you know sin is so bad that it 0:58:07 basically besmirches the relation 0:58:09 between the divine and his creature that 0:58:11 he created to be weak and he can't 0:58:13 forgive him at all unless he does this 0:58:16 so forgiveness is not based on the 0:58:18 relation between man and god but 0:58:20 basically you know god has to 0:58:22 uh deal with something else has to have 0:58:24 some kind of blood sacrifice outside of 0:58:26 that relationship 0:58:28 which is not maximum love but the point 0:58:30 i want to say here is about the 0:58:31 psychological perspective when it comes 0:58:34 to the son of the prophet 0:58:35 alaihi who's someone following him that 0:58:37 is actually a way of filling that void 0:58:39 that spiritual voice absolutely right 0:58:42 allah says in the quran to the prophet 0:58:44 say if you love allah then follow me 0:58:47 meaning follow muhammad sallam 0:58:49 and allah will love you and forgive your 0:58:52 sins so just following the prophet 0:58:54 sallallahu alaihi wasallam is actually a 0:58:57 means to divine love and to divine 0:58:59 forgiveness and it's and that following 0:59:01 is what because iman is your heart your 0:59:03 tongue what you say how you relate to 0:59:05 yourself how you relate to others how 0:59:06 you relate to allah it's your state of 0:59:08 being your state of being changes by an 0:59:11 abstract belief that someone got 0:59:12 sacrificed like 0:59:14 2 000 years ago it's not the same from a 0:59:16 psychological perspective so jordan 0:59:18 should be looking into the right place 0:59:20 which is following the prophets 0:59:25 that was great thank you 0:59:26 thank you for joining us god bless you 0:59:28 you're very articulate i've never heard 0:59:29 you before i think but i'm really 0:59:31 impressed the way you articulate 0:59:32 yourself when i preserve you and your 0:59:33 family 0:59:35 i mean 0:59:36 that's interesting because um 0:59:38 like this idea of following the sunnah 0:59:40 of the prophet muhammad they you can't 0:59:42 do that with isa alaihissalam and 0:59:44 christianity because they've made him 0:59:46 god 0:59:47 exactly exactly 0:59:49 there's this whole issue with like 0:59:51 you know the the inherited sin 0:59:54 so we are like 0:59:56 so far apart from what islam is in the 1:00:00 christian tradition 1:00:01 that like the whole idea itself makes it 1:00:04 impossible to follow the son of the 1:00:06 prophet isa alaihissalam 1:00:08 you can't because he according to them 1:00:10 is god 1:00:11 and we are absolutely 1:00:17 which is the death of god is a 1:00:20 consequence of that particular 1:00:23 theological stance in their tradition 1:00:26 right 1:00:27 and i think 1:00:29 for us now in the in the sort of the 1:00:30 contemporary world 1:00:32 everywhere that that particular 1:00:34 philosophy 1:00:35 has 1:00:37 embedded itself as part of the secular 1:00:39 liberal sort of ideology the consequence 1:00:43 is a forgetfulness of god 1:00:46 and one of the consequences is there an 1:00:47 atheism right and and it's almost like 1:00:52 this is the symptom before you get to 1:00:54 the disease the symptom is you must have 1:00:57 this disconnected belief of god 1:01:01 then you arrive at this conclusion which 1:01:02 is atheism and then you arrive at the 1:01:04 conclusion of nihilism which is what 1:01:06 you're interested in you know yeah john 1:01:08 peterson what was that 1:01:12 that was a loud truck um because john 1:01:15 peterson has made mention of this um 1:01:18 with his commentary about the the path 1:01:20 that the jews took in 1:01:22 previously and when you read the old 1:01:23 testament 1:01:24 he talks about like the the most 1:01:26 critical 1:01:27 of the jews is the old testament 1:01:30 like 1:01:31 and you you see this sort of um 1:01:33 recurring pattern 1:01:34 where they go through a struggle 1:01:37 and they they suffer greatly at the 1:01:39 hands of oppressors and things like that 1:01:41 and um they 1:01:42 they become spiritual 1:01:45 and they turn back to their god they 1:01:47 sent prophets and they they begin to 1:01:48 follow the prophets you know for example 1:01:49 muslim 1:01:51 they have the the whole issue with 1:01:54 and the problems that occur there 1:01:56 and the profit comes they correct 1:01:58 themselves as a people 1:02:00 obviously it's it's a bumpy ride they 1:02:02 still struggle like you've got the the 1:02:03 issue with the calf and things like that 1:02:04 the golden car but they 1:02:07 they 1:02:08 they get themselves back on track that 1:02:09 the people themselves become more 1:02:11 spiritual and as a result of that 1:02:13 they're blessed and they their path 1:02:15 increases and they they end up in a 1:02:18 position of power of high status of 1:02:20 wealth 1:02:21 and you know they're in a good position 1:02:23 but then what happens is they 1:02:25 lose that connection again 1:02:28 and they become lost they become more 1:02:30 worldly dunya focused yeah and they they 1:02:33 lose that spirituality element of their 1:02:36 religion and god has to then send them 1:02:38 another prophet and to remind them 1:02:41 listen 1:02:42 you've gone astray you've been blessed 1:02:45 and you've been given this position of 1:02:47 power and you've become comfortable 1:02:50 and the blessings have become neutral 1:02:52 and it's it's the example i always give 1:02:53 of you know like aftershave you smell 1:02:55 that aftershave on someone and it's ah 1:02:58 that's beautiful i need that ood what is 1:03:01 that tell me what dude you go and you 1:03:02 get it and you put it on and it's like 1:03:04 yeah so aftershave is different to use 1:03:06 by the way brother yeah yeah 1:03:09 i'm joking just between the penis 1:03:11 i mean the smelly's we're calling this 1:03:13 yeah yeah exactly you've got your nice 1:03:15 smellies and for the first couple of 1:03:16 weeks 1:03:17 they smell really good and it's intense 1:03:20 and then you're gonna get used to it 1:03:21 yeah 1:03:22 yeah and yeah and that's it so then 1:03:24 after a certain amount of time it's like 1:03:26 you start thinking is this something in 1:03:27 my aftershave has it gotten old like i 1:03:29 can't see you you over compensate and 1:03:32 you spray more on and then other people 1:03:33 coming like why have you put so much 1:03:34 aftershave on which one you all know i 1:03:36 kind of can't even smell it i smell it 1:03:37 anymore yeah exactly 1:03:39 it becomes neutral becomes normal and so 1:03:41 so you're saying jordan peterson painted 1:03:43 on this 1:03:44 he mentioned in what context in what 1:03:46 context though do you think i can't 1:03:48 remember i can't remember it it was i 1:03:49 think it was talking about sort of um 1:03:52 being critical of the jewish people or 1:03:54 something it might have been 1:03:56 i'm just this was a while ago i heard it 1:03:58 yeah it was probably on a conversation 1:04:00 about anti-semitism or something and 1:04:02 someone was and he 1:04:04 he mentioned 1:04:05 i hope it's him the memory is i might 1:04:08 have a false memory here someone 1:04:10 mentioned it anyway but they said that 1:04:12 um the most critical of the jews was the 1:04:14 old testament yes well it is if you if 1:04:17 you read it it is because they're 1:04:18 repeatedly 1:04:19 punished and because this you know 1:04:22 they're the chosen people 1:04:23 and for 1:04:25 you know 1:04:26 decades and centuries 1:04:31 exactly and 1:04:33 so they're dealt with accordingly every 1:04:34 time that they do that exactly and god 1:04:36 humbles them again and then they they go 1:04:39 back on track and then they go through 1:04:40 this secular motion 1:04:42 of humbling themselves 1:04:45 establishing the connection with allah 1:04:47 and then 1:04:48 you know 1:04:49 when they get into into into into sort 1:04:52 of you 1:04:55 notice their blessings and it becomes 1:04:57 sort of expected by them like this is 1:04:59 this is ours like it's a right for them 1:05:01 to have these rather than something that 1:05:03 they should be grateful for 1:05:05 the the the gratitude dissolves and you 1:05:07 see that even today in modern society 1:05:09 with all the best like bro we're talking 1:05:12 instantly over some magical device 1:05:15 exactly yeah 1:05:17 we were connected wirelessly arthur c 1:05:18 clark you mean off the c clark style 1:05:20 yeah yeah we got a paintless room we 1:05:24 turned on that light switch and bam like 1:05:26 we didn't have to spend hours trying to 1:05:28 get a fire going or out right exactly 1:05:30 yeah yeah delivered 1:05:32 or maybe you did i don't know maybe you 1:05:34 did i don't know i mean yeah i don't 1:05:36 know where you are but again so to go 1:05:38 the reason i brought this up was this is 1:05:40 an example where 1:05:42 somebody who's 1:05:44 obviously well-read well-educated packs 1:05:46 into a couple of sentences 1:05:49 some really deep concepts 1:05:51 yeah that now has just taken us 30 1:05:53 minutes to unpack 1:05:54 and he can't help but do that well this 1:05:56 is important 1:05:58 exactly exactly he's going to flow he's 1:06:00 just like he's having a nice 1:06:02 conversation and he's just engaged with 1:06:04 the person and he's he's got an 1:06:06 understanding of this person's education 1:06:08 level is exactly you know he's getting 1:06:10 the vibe that he this is the kind of way 1:06:13 he can speak to this person and he 1:06:14 should be able to follow it yeah and so 1:06:16 he just says it and like 1:06:18 if you just stop in that and have to in 1:06:21 the conversation 1:06:22 break up every word that he's used and 1:06:25 do what we've just done you wouldn't 1:06:26 have been able to have had the 1:06:27 conversation that they did have yeah and 1:06:29 that would have ruined the flow of the 1:06:31 city exactly 1:06:32 viewers need to be patient when they're 1:06:34 watching these kind of things and 1:06:35 understand that if you want to get this 1:06:37 you're going to have to put the leg work 1:06:38 in you're going to have to pause it 1:06:39 you're going to have to define things 1:06:40 and you know you're going to have to do 1:06:41 a bit of extra work 1:06:44 and that takes effort and energy and it 1:06:46 does 1:06:47 but the the issue though is most of the 1:06:50 audience probably 1:06:52 wouldn't have understood in just by 1:06:55 watching it be able to break it down 1:06:57 themselves but we didn't ever because we 1:06:59 had to pause and talk and discuss no but 1:07:02 yeah but this is i think this is what 1:07:04 the genesis of why muhammad originally 1:07:07 brought up this point right it's because 1:07:08 this is what we're talking about before 1:07:10 is that when you're 1:07:12 trying to convey something to an 1:07:14 audience 1:07:16 many times you may be taking these 1:07:18 concepts and these ideas and all this 1:07:20 background information for granted and 1:07:23 you say something within five minutes it 1:07:25 has 1:07:26 so much other details to it that are not 1:07:29 you know readily available to the you 1:07:32 know the immediate audience 1:07:34 and they don't really get that they 1:07:36 don't really get 1:07:37 the full picture of what you're really 1:07:38 excited 1:07:50 right so it depends on the person and 1:07:52 and the audience that they've developed 1:07:54 over time so he has a somewhat more 1:07:58 uh sophisticated audience we could say 1:08:00 so i'm not saying that nobody understood 1:08:03 that obviously there were certain people 1:08:04 that understood uh brother 1:08:07 hamza just came and you know sort of 1:08:09 broke that down so he understood the 1:08:11 point but i think muhammad's point is 1:08:15 the the greater audience the majority of 1:08:17 the people probably are missing out on a 1:08:21 lot of those points yeah exactly 1:08:27 he probably understood a lot of what he 1:08:29 was saying right but the issue is are 1:08:32 you having the conversation 1:08:35 for just the other person that you're 1:08:37 speaking to right or you're having it 1:08:39 with the audience in mind you see and 1:08:41 it's very hard to balance that because 1:08:44 at the same time you want to in a short 1:08:47 amount of time 1:08:49 pack in and have a as high level of a 1:08:52 discussion as you can with the person 1:08:55 you're speaking to but at the same time 1:08:57 you don't want the audience to be lost 1:08:59 you want them to be 1:09:01 really engaged in the conversation in 1:09:03 the way that the other person that 1:09:05 you're speaking to is 1:09:06 and to try to balance this sort of 1:09:08 balancing act between those two things 1:09:11 is extremely difficult 1:09:13 it is difficult and and you know i mean 1:09:15 just my own personal experience i think 1:09:17 the the it's important then to sort of 1:09:20 first of all be mindful and aware 1:09:23 that this is happening 1:09:26 i think have the conversation that needs 1:09:28 to be had in in the in the moment 1:09:32 and then i think post the conversation 1:09:34 as part of um separate sort of events 1:09:37 just like we've done 1:09:39 just like we've done now 1:09:40 is is really sort of break it down for 1:09:42 the audience knowing that these are 1:09:44 concepts that likely will have been 1:09:46 missed yeah and again you only need to 1:09:47 go through them i think once or twice 1:09:49 and then people have got a reference 1:09:50 point to go back to 1:09:53 um so i think yusuf you know when you 1:09:54 first started you did a really good 1:09:56 breakdown of your thesis that you did 1:09:58 for your degree right yeah 1:10:02 it was ours but the thing is is you've 1:10:04 got now a reference material that 1:10:05 anybody that says okay what is yusuf 1:10:07 talking about 1:10:09 if they want to do the homework they can 1:10:10 go listen to that stuff 1:10:12 right and if they don't then it's 1:10:15 too bad yeah 1:10:17 it's your bad okay look we need to have 1:10:18 an academic conversation here i'm not 1:10:20 going to spend 16 hours explaining 1:10:22 something i've already explained but the 1:10:24 key is 1:10:25 is just being mindful that when you are 1:10:28 talking with some of the especially some 1:10:30 of the more esoteric topics you know 1:10:31 they're really f especially some of the 1:10:33 stuff you talk about jake on on you know 1:10:35 really deep theological discussions 1:10:37 nuances 1:10:39 uh for example the first time you spoke 1:10:40 about divine simplicity right it 1:10:43 completely went over me right 1:10:45 and it wasn't until i listened to it the 1:10:47 second time i sort of 1:10:48 finally understood what the christians 1:10:50 have been going on about with attributes 1:10:53 and 1:10:54 you know and i certainly sort of i had 1:10:56 this sort of aha moment of 1:10:58 okay 1:11:00 so this is why this particular group 1:11:03 really sort of misunderstands the sifat 1:11:05 of allah the the names of allah 1:11:08 attributes because they just have a 1:11:10 completely different conception 1:11:13 of what the divine being is all about 1:11:15 yeah 1:11:16 and that actually took what was it like 1:11:19 a three-hour discussion and and plus 1:11:21 another couple of hours for me to go 1:11:22 listen to it again 1:11:23 i mean five hours of effort just for me 1:11:26 to sort of realize that okay that's the 1:11:28 and that's like one concept 1:11:30 out of like a like and it's not just 1:11:33 it happened to me as well when i first 1:11:35 heard about it i was like 1:11:37 what is it what are they even talking 1:11:38 about i didn't really grasp it at first 1:11:41 it took me i watched several discussions 1:11:44 and debates on it i read 1:11:46 academic sources on the topic yep and um 1:11:49 it's funny you bring that up because i 1:11:51 am gonna actually talk about simplicity 1:11:54 uh as part as part of the course and i 1:11:57 am gonna try to break it down and make 1:11:59 it simple um so hopefully some people 1:12:01 will get it yeah no pun intended 1:12:06 people think about it like divine 1:12:08 simplicity oh what does that mean is it 1:12:10 just god is simple and easy to 1:12:12 understand and it's like no that's not 1:12:14 what it means so um 1:12:17 yeah it's it's definitely a challenge 1:12:20 and um you know the it's as i said 1:12:23 before it's kind of trial and error you 1:12:26 a lot of times when you're speaking um 1:12:29 especially to a diverse audience 1:12:32 some of the other people who are 1:12:34 familiar with the background stuff 1:12:35 they're like 1:12:37 come on man we when we know what divine 1:12:39 simplicity is just use the shorthand 1:12:41 term and then go on to the crux of the 1:12:43 matter we don't need you explain it 1:12:45 every single time and so that's the 1:12:47 issue is that 1:12:49 the more diverse your audience it is 1:12:52 in in a sense it's almost more difficult 1:12:54 to really to convey what you want 1:12:56 because you you're dealing with people 1:12:58 on so many different levels 1:13:00 so 1:13:01 you know i i don't want to complicate it 1:13:03 but you know the other concept that 1:13:04 really sort of 1:13:06 is misunderstood is this whole idea of 1:13:09 uh the model of the soul from the 1:13:11 islamic perspective 1:13:13 yeah 1:13:14 because you know there is this whole 1:13:15 paradigm of western psychology that has 1:13:18 sort of really 1:13:19 become the dominant model of how we 1:13:21 understand the human being existence 1:13:24 uh the nature of man and all the rest of 1:13:26 it 1:13:26 but there's an even deeper longer 1:13:28 history in islam you know and there's an 1:13:31 excellent book i think i think it was by 1:13:32 um 1:13:34 um who was it by um 1:13:37 abdullah rothman 1:13:39 right 1:13:40 he wrote a book called developing a 1:13:41 model the islamic psychology and 1:13:43 psychotherapy and if you go in there he 1:13:45 actually refers back to i think it was 1:13:47 an even time ian model 1:13:49 of the soul and of the nafs and of the 1:13:51 of really sort of psychology 1:13:53 i think 1:13:55 for as muslims 1:13:57 i think we need to appreciate that the 1:13:58 western concept of soul when we talk 1:14:02 about soul and fitra 1:14:04 is actually missing they actually have a 1:14:06 big gap 1:14:07 in in their entire understanding of what 1:14:09 the human being they just have this sort 1:14:11 of dual meaning of this body and soul 1:14:13 okay yes but what does that actually 1:14:14 mean 1:14:15 and everybody assume everybody has to 1:14:17 sort of do duality based conversation 1:14:20 but they know they don't really sort of 1:14:21 double click on what do you mean by soul 1:14:23 and what do we mean by soul and our 1:14:25 definition is actually significantly 1:14:27 different i think a lot of the 1:14:28 misunderstanding happens there because 1:14:30 when we have this idea of 1:14:32 of 1:14:33 um 1:14:35 the resurrection in christianity for 1:14:36 example and they talk about you know 1:14:39 well visit the human 1:14:40 or the god you know who actually died 1:14:42 whatever and they say well it's a soul 1:14:45 but then you i mean they get into the 1:14:46 whole question of person being etc etc 1:14:49 but then in the islamic paradigm it's 1:14:51 even deeper 1:14:53 you're smiling there yeah 1:15:05 great look brothers thank you very much 1:15:06 great conversation um 1:15:08 i'd love to stay on for hours more but 1:15:11 i i i need to get back to uh to actually 1:15:13 my lunch time is over now so 1:15:18 it's like 1:15:21 for jumping on it it was brilliant no 1:15:23 it's brilliant i'm glad i could and i'm 1:15:25 jake welcome um i won't be getting i 1:15:27 won't be able to get down to london but 1:15:29 uh i'm sure um how are you 1:15:31 brother i'm in manchester oh you're a 1:15:33 monk 1:15:36 are you guys let me ask you a question 1:15:38 are you guys naturally clumsy in 1:15:40 manchester 1:15:42 i don't know i don't know i i i maybe 1:15:44 it's just that one individual next to 1:15:45 you i've known this guy has built like 1:15:47 drinks since i've been here it's only 1:15:49 since you've been here 1:15:55 by the presence of an american that's 1:15:57 what it is making me nervous because he 1:15:58 keeps yeah there you go there you go 1:16:00 exactly no yeah yeah so 1:16:03 where are you 1:16:06 are you in monk as well 1:16:07 i'm no no no we're in london at the 1:16:09 moment um 1:16:11 you live up north right yeah i live in 1:16:13 bolton 1:16:14 let's connect yeah and when you get back 1:16:16 up here let's connect because i'm in 1:16:17 manchester um 1:16:31 i spent too much time on it if i'm on it 1:16:33 so 1:16:34 no yeah usually i just ignore it just 1:16:36 ignore it just stay like because all the 1:16:37 numbers are there 1:16:40 all right bros 1:16:46 that was a nice little surprise though 1:16:48 yeah a good contribution yeah he's good 1:16:50 brother marcelo so yeah um 1:16:54 151 of you 1:16:56 i'm guessing there's a portion of you 1:16:57 that have not subscribed so if you're 1:16:58 not please do subscribe now uh click the 1:17:01 notification button 1:17:03 uh jake's 1:17:05 gonna angrily look at the the subscribe 1:17:07 account oh it went up slightly oh we got 1:17:09 we're at 9.78 so it's gonna buy 1:17:12 0.01 yeah so not too far i guess but 1:17:16 yeah inshallah uh we're hoping to get to 1:17:18 10k before the 16th which will be 1:17:21 one day after our one year 1:17:24 uh anniversary of thought adventure um 1:17:26 which would be absolutely awesome let's 1:17:28 see if abdulrahman 1:17:36 uh 1:17:37 maybe he could join in a bit 1:17:40 i think it's been a bit yeah it's been 1:17:42 probably about coming 1:17:43 he said that um 1:17:45 after turns it's been about an hour yeah 1:17:49 and so we'll all collectively shout at 1:17:51 him for not coming to 1:17:56 london you read the comments 1:17:59 yeah you've seen what's going on here 1:18:02 i um 1:18:03 i think 1:18:04 brother carlos attacked me 1:18:07 yeah he asked you where was it 1:18:10 there 1:18:11 okay 1:18:13 have you joined the on clubhouse yet i 1:18:15 have no connection issues there i did 1:18:18 uh but then i uh deactivated 1:18:22 because 1:18:23 it's so much time yeah another 1:18:24 distraction um 1:18:26 i like minimal social media 1:18:29 um so the only ones that i really 1:18:31 use are youtube and twitter but i've 1:18:34 even deactivated my twitter 1:18:36 um so i'm gonna reactivate that in a 1:18:38 little bit but i don't like spreading 1:18:39 myself too thin 1:18:41 but yeah i think you're on everything 1:18:42 aren't you 1:18:43 uh not really i'm on facebook 1:18:46 twitter 1:18:49 youtube 1:18:50 and clubhouse 1:18:52 but i've i've managed to stay off of 1:18:54 tick-tock i know people keep trying to 1:18:56 persuade me no no i'm never going to 1:18:58 tell you i'm not on tick-tock i'm not on 1:19:00 instagram 1:19:02 uh so 1:19:04 i'm not on a few but i'm probably 1:19:12 i want to avoid 1:19:13 extra stuff i've got a lot i need to get 1:19:16 sword 1:19:17 yeah and uh 1:19:19 what else is being said 1:19:21 so that we'll put the link out i don't 1:19:23 know we've been on for an hour and a 1:19:24 half what time did you say was it one 1:19:26 o'clock 1:19:29 we've got a little bit we could chill 1:19:30 for a bit more 1:19:32 somebody said are you going to any 1:19:34 football matches they don't have 1:19:35 football here you guys know that come on 1:19:38 you got some bootleg football over here 1:19:42 all right well 1:19:43 yeah i i would uh go at you for about i 1:19:46 do not like football anyway so 1:19:48 i couldn't care less about the whole 1:19:50 football banter yeah 1:19:56 i wondered why the sun came up 1:20:00 um 1:20:04 um 1:20:05 there's some other conversations about 1:20:06 what's going on there yeah 1:20:08 tick-tock has huge pull 1:20:10 what is that yeah that's what i hear i 1:20:12 mean getting a lot of viewers and stuff 1:20:14 yeah yeah sounds always as advocates for 1:20:17 it yeah but i i just don't like it at 1:20:20 all me 1:20:21 tic toc is like 1:20:23 i had a little look i didn't like it man 1:20:25 i know they do but that we already said 1:20:27 now before that's not uh 1:20:30 equivalent to whether or not something's 1:20:31 right to do or 1:20:33 good to follow but um yeah not for me 1:20:35 it's just like i was on it for a little 1:20:36 bit and it just stroked me as like hyper 1:20:39 degenerate 1:20:40 sounds like 1:20:41 no 1:20:42 and it's really a lot of madness going 1:20:44 on there 1:20:47 no jet lag 1:20:49 no 1:20:50 he's a monster 1:20:52 he's a machine 1:20:55 he looked proper like 1:20:56 bushy tailed as well this morning 1:20:58 wide-eyed yeah like he hadn't been on a 1:21:01 bloody 50-hour flight 1:21:03 uh jake likes american rugby 1:21:07 1:21:11 no no we're at the sapience office which 1:21:13 is right next door 1:21:15 to the air office 1:21:18 uh 1:21:19 so same same but different 1:21:22 talk has way too much misinformation i 1:21:24 think everything has way too much 1:21:26 misinformation yeah it's constantly 1:21:29 fighting against the wave of 1:21:32 nonsense um aren't you tired after a 1:21:35 long same question no no no he's uh 1:21:39 ready to roll 1:21:40 yeah uh 1:21:42 what's being said 1:21:44 you're both going to speak his corner 1:21:45 yeah insha'allah and hopefully brother 1:21:47 sharif is going to be feeling a little 1:21:48 bit better by then as well 1:21:50 and uh we're going to try to get him up 1:21:51 to join us we were trying to get abdul 1:21:53 rahman to join us too um 1:21:56 but i'm not 100 sure that's going to 1:21:58 happen 1:22:00 which is a shame because it would have 1:22:01 been so nice to have done a nice little 1:22:03 live stream with all four of us in the 1:22:05 same room yeah really cool 1:22:08 1:22:10 um 1:22:11 episode suggestion names and attributes 1:22:14 of allah 1:22:15 less philosophical or more laymany 1:22:18 uh like hamza did a seminar once titled 1:22:21 born to worship 1:22:23 i believe it's most powerful for 1:22:25 dawn 1:22:27 dawn darwin 1:22:30 maybe not now 1:22:31 yeah we could do stuff like that there's 1:22:32 um 1:22:35 the thing is is that there are things 1:22:37 like that already available um and we've 1:22:40 we're focusing on a particular sort of 1:22:42 thing 1:22:44 um we don't want to sort of reinvent the 1:22:46 wheel when there's already a lot 1:22:48 of material like you probably want to 1:22:49 get that type of thing from shares or 1:22:52 you know 1:22:54 if you google it you're going to come 1:22:55 across that kind of stuff 1:22:57 um and we don't want to spread ourselves 1:22:59 thin trying to just do everything 1:23:01 we've got a certain thing that we aim at 1:23:04 um although it would be beneficial it's 1:23:07 going to be much more beneficial if it 1:23:08 comes from someone who's 1:23:10 you know that's their niche we'll say um 1:23:13 i don't know what you think 1:23:14 yeah but yeah there's like i say lots of 1:23:17 stuff just search for some ulama they've 1:23:19 um they've done courses on that so 1:23:22 i'm sure you'll find benefit in that um 1:23:24 are you finding the uk to be jake it's a 1:23:27 good superior yeah 1:23:30 what do you mean 1:23:33 i don't know man we'll see i gotta spend 1:23:35 more time well 1:23:37 he sounded a bit nervous when he said 1:23:38 something no well yeah well 1:23:41 we'll see we'll see how he likes it 1:23:43 we're gonna show him around london we've 1:23:45 got a beautiful view of the 1:23:47 industrial estate across the road yeah 1:23:49 from my window yeah 1:23:51 they put him on the first on the ground 1:23:53 floor 1:23:55 yeah and the elevator is working now 1:23:57 and then he got the ground floor i'm on 1:23:59 the fifth floor and the elevator wasn't 1:24:00 working and i had to 1:24:03 carry all of my bags up to the top was 1:24:05 that 1:24:07 i got in on the wrong side of the car 1:24:09 when i first got here oh yeah that was 1:24:10 fun that was bad because he's american 1:24:13 and they drive on the other side of the 1:24:14 road fun fact do you know why 1:24:17 we drive on the 1:24:19 the left side of the road 1:24:22 apparently 1:24:23 this might be complete misinformation 1:24:26 but apparently it's because uh we 1:24:29 when we used to ride horses 1:24:30 you would have to if you were going down 1:24:32 the road and you needed to fight 1:24:35 your sword hand or your jousting hand 1:24:36 was your right hand so you needed to be 1:24:39 on the left side so that you could 1:24:40 attack the person 1:24:42 on the other side of the road 1:24:44 and then you guys just like to do things 1:24:46 backwards 1:24:47 so you thought let's do it the other way 1:24:49 because we hate the uk we were yours 1:24:52 that's right your colonial masters 1:24:54 that's right so they were like screw 1:24:56 these guys 1:24:57 we're gonna do things how they don't do 1:24:59 it 1:25:00 um 1:25:02 let us know if when yeah yeah hopefully 1:25:04 in shallow we're gonna go on the 16th 1:25:05 yeah next sunday guys 1:25:07 uh tick tock is pure garbage 1:25:10 bra brap 1:25:11 i agree well done give that man a badge 1:25:14 uh yeah i hear you on social media thing 1:25:17 i avoid most platforms even facebook 1:25:19 yeah i've deleted my facebook um 1:25:22 yeah well that's the thing i'm i have an 1:25:25 addictive personality 1:25:26 so when i go on to certain things 1:25:28 especially with social media i spend way 1:25:30 too much time on it and um 1:25:32 so i need to sort of minimize 1:25:35 my triggers 1:25:36 and just avoid extra things to spend 1:25:39 more time on 1:25:41 uh 1:25:42 it just 1:25:44 bless him as well yeah he likes tic tac 1:25:46 as well yeah 1:25:48 well that's it 1:25:49 oh the brothers that do engage in it 1:25:51 i'll make them successful in it but i'm 1:25:52 i'm avoiding that like the plague 1:25:55 uh favorite metal bands 1:25:58 i don't i never listened to men 1:26:00 are you used to way back in the day ever 1:26:03 and uh i don't even wanna i was a rapper 1:26:05 i was never into metal oh yeah yeah yeah 1:26:07 yeah you're gonna spit some bars there 1:26:09 we go 1:26:10 special moment no straight in the uk 1:26:12 he's gonna get something 1:26:14 get straight into the grime we'll say 1:26:16 some poetry oh if you want we could just 1:26:17 sing the some viking poetry together 1:26:21 i don't know if i can vote 1:26:23 i'll teach you something 1:26:24 we'll roam around 1:26:26 yeah 1:26:27 saying it but it's pretty cool um 1:26:29 where can we follow your 1:26:31 uh 1:26:32 social media twitter your best place is 1:26:34 twitter the most at the muslim metaphys 1:26:37 if you just search the muslim meta 1:26:38 physician he's going to pop up yeah um 1:26:40 although that is an extremely difficult 1:26:42 word to spell for a lot of people 1:26:44 yeah i know 1:26:46 we you've probably worked on changing at 1:26:48 some point uh the muslim meta p 1:26:52 meta p is nice and 1:26:54 muslim the meta muslim 1:26:58 there we go that's a good one 1:27:00 suggestions in the chat guys 1:27:02 for a new name for the muslim 1:27:04 metaphysician that's easier to spell 1:27:07 yeah if you just type in i believe it's 1:27:09 at m 1:27:11 metaphysician actually that'd be that's 1:27:12 that's not good 1:27:14 the mata muslim yeah because meta means 1:27:16 after no does it not before before yeah 1:27:24 but but it doesn't mean in the sense of 1:27:26 like 1:27:27 it means it more in terms of 1:27:28 foundationally doesn't it it doesn't 1:27:30 mean yeah no but in colloquial greek 1:27:33 means after 1:27:36 yeah it means after yeah it means after 1:27:37 not before it's after 1:27:39 all right so 1:27:40 yeah so metaphysics was after his book 1:27:44 physics yeah because it was he literally 1:27:46 wrote that after he wrote the book on 1:27:47 physics 1:27:49 but the funny thing is metaphysics now 1:27:51 means something completely yeah 1:27:52 foundational 1:27:53 yeah now 1:27:58 okay so putting him off the muslim with 1:28:01 it 1:28:03 the logical concerning 1:28:05 yeah 1:28:06 okay okay so 1:28:07 yeah because the where they got the name 1:28:10 metaphysics was actually somebody who 1:28:12 compiled aristotle's works 1:28:15 in the the compilation that he put it in 1:28:19 obviously aristotle has a work called 1:28:21 the physics and then he had a different 1:28:23 section of writings 1:28:25 and 1:28:26 that literally in terms of chronological 1:28:28 order in the book came after his work on 1:28:32 the physics 1:28:33 and so people then just it just got that 1:28:35 title 1:28:36 being called metaphysics because it 1:28:38 literally came 1:28:40 after the work physics in that um 1:28:42 compilation that this uh i forget the 1:28:45 guy's name actually that compiled 1:28:47 aristotle's works so it wasn't even from 1:28:49 aristotle didn't even name it it's funny 1:28:51 how it changed as well and then yeah 1:28:53 yeah and then then basically what 1:28:55 happened was 1:28:56 subject matter that was related to that 1:29:00 just then all of a sudden got called 1:29:02 metaphysics yeah but really the name had 1:29:04 nothing to do with the original content 1:29:07 you know 1:29:08 yeah i mean it's funny i i've had 1:29:10 conversations with people who didn't 1:29:12 know that like i had especially atheists 1:29:15 i had this guy on clubhouse tell me 1:29:18 um metaphysics what did he say was like 1:29:21 um 1:29:22 uh 1:29:24 trying to remember exactly what he said 1:29:26 it was um 1:29:28 i don't know it'll come to me okay that 1:29:31 comment gave me a headache just reading 1:29:32 it let alone oh yeah i might even pull 1:29:35 it up 1:29:38 jake will you be meeting up with the 1:29:40 rest of the brothers muhammad it's hamza 1:29:42 support hamza's over there hamza has 1:29:45 been in the video 1:29:47 i think he's just come in um yeah 1:29:48 inshallah mohammed hitchhiker 1:29:50 should be coming uh so boy is he feeling 1:29:53 any better 1:29:54 i think he's yeah i got in touch with 1:29:56 him he's being a bit better but i it 1:29:57 smashed him up yeah he told me he was 1:30:00 asking him a call yeah in the process of 1:30:02 the healing 1:30:04 but he's negative now alhamdulillah oh 1:30:07 yeah so 1:30:07 we're here for two weeks anyway 1:30:10 um yeah we should be okay now i remember 1:30:12 yeah the guy said that uh metaphysics is 1:30:16 a meta analysis of physics this is the 1:30:18 guy told me i'm like bro it has nothing 1:30:21 to do with that 1:30:23 where did you get it from you know you 1:30:24 just make stuff up 1:30:26 just had to explain it to him 1:30:28 how do you join sapiens 1:30:30 you go 1:30:31 followers on social media how do you 1:30:34 join what do you mean how do you join 1:30:35 i'm guessing 1:30:37 subscribe to the channel yeah go to the 1:30:39 dance around with fire yeah you've got 1:30:42 to do so we want to be initiated yes 1:30:45 there's we we take you to we can do a 1:30:47 blindfold tell them on the internet 1:30:49 that's the secret no no 1:30:52 the secret is how we get there but what 1:30:54 we do we blindfold you we take you to a 1:30:56 room that's in an undisclosed location 1:30:59 and then you've got to like run this 1:31:00 course that's filled you gotta like jump 1:31:03 through flaming hoops 1:31:04 like dive over like bottomless pits 1:31:08 fight snakes and wolves 1:31:10 you know all that kind of stuff and if 1:31:11 if you get to the end we'll just walk 1:31:13 down the high street in bolton i just 1:31:17 i just walked down the high street in 1:31:19 bolton he said 1:31:20 1:31:21 and then if you manage to survive either 1:31:24 that treacherous course 1:31:26 uh or the uh the walk down bolton um 1:31:30 then you you become initiated to the the 1:31:32 sapience gank 1:31:34 well hijab will be waiting at the end 1:31:36 yeah yeah yeah oh yeah and he's got his 1:31:38 boxing clothes on so you're gonna have 1:31:39 like a 1:31:40 survive five rounds with him in a in a 1:31:43 boxing ring 1:31:44 so inshallah but alternatively you could 1:31:46 just subscribe to the channel um 1:31:48 sapiens institute and you can follow us 1:31:50 on social media uh which we just 1:31:52 searched safety institute in any of them 1:31:53 it should pop up let them know about 1:31:55 lighthouse bro and they'll feel like we 1:31:56 don't uh no i don't answer enough i do 1:31:59 always mention it pretty much i just 1:32:00 haven't at the moment but yeah 1:32:02 lighthouse project so um the lighthouse 1:32:04 project is something we're doing 1:32:06 and there's someone that has is 1:32:08 suffering from doubts or is interested 1:32:09 in islam it's a free service so if you 1:32:11 go to sapiens institute.org forward 1:32:13 slash lighthouse you can book a 1:32:16 one-to-one meeting that's private it's 1:32:18 also for 1:32:19 mentoring future leaders yeah activists 1:32:22 so if you if you're looking at getting 1:32:23 into 1:32:24 um being you know a leader or a activist 1:32:28 or some 1:32:29 type within the muslim community we can 1:32:31 help mentor you on that and give you 1:32:33 advice and tips and work through things 1:32:35 with you 1:32:36 so we've had chiefs use the service um 1:32:40 we've had you know people that just want 1:32:41 to do dawah we've had people that have 1:32:43 been suffering from doubts ex-muslims 1:32:46 non-muslims 1:32:47 um 1:32:48 it's just 1:32:49 you know an opportunity for you to have 1:32:51 a nice one-to-one conversation with one 1:32:52 of the mentors brother jake's one of the 1:32:54 mentors i'm one of the mentors hans is 1:32:56 one of the mentors and we've also got 1:32:58 brother fahad taslim uh dr uthman 1:33:02 abdul rahman is a mentor as well 1:33:04 and 1:33:05 we've got another brother called malik 1:33:07 uh who's just joined recently 1:33:09 and 1:33:11 i think that yeah that's every one of us 1:33:13 imran hussein was um he's had to take a 1:33:15 little break so he's 1:33:16 he's not at the moment but he's in 1:33:17 shuttle at some point in the future 1:33:18 gonna jump on as well so you can have a 1:33:20 little nice one-hour conversations with 1:33:22 us and it's a service you can use 1:33:24 like as often as you need it 1:33:26 um but if you do book just book once pet 1:33:28 peeve 1:33:29 turn up if you do book 1:33:31 um because it's rather annoying when you 1:33:33 book an appointment and don't show up 1:33:35 obviously if you've got legitimate 1:33:36 reasons then 1:33:38 we can't complain about that but 1:33:40 some people just like when if you book 1:33:42 an appointment little tips set an 1:33:44 appointment in your calendar on your 1:33:46 phone set reminders the day before an 1:33:48 hour before 1:33:49 and keep an eye on your junk mail in 1:33:51 case we our emails are getting sent to 1:33:52 your drink mail add the the lighthouse 1:33:55 email to your contacts list it's at 1:33:57 lighthouse 1:33:58 sapience institute.org if you add it to 1:34:00 your contacts list then in short like it 1:34:02 doesn't get thrown into the junk mail 1:34:04 um so just take these little steps and 1:34:06 um you know 1:34:07 keep an eye on the the email inbox et 1:34:10 cetera um 1:34:11 um 1:34:12 you know 1:34:13 show up to the meeting and show because 1:34:14 there's a lot of time being invested in 1:34:16 this and if you're not showing up to the 1:34:17 meeting that meeting goes to waste and 1:34:19 it could have been used by someone who 1:34:20 needed it um but if you're holding up 1:34:23 that slot no one else can book on it 1:34:26 so you've got to keep that in mind as 1:34:27 well but yeah it's a free service um so 1:34:29 you're welcome to use that as well 1:34:30 uh sapiens institute.org forward slash 1:34:33 lights house and if you don't need it 1:34:35 yourself but you know someone who does 1:34:36 need it forward it to them uh there is 1:34:39 one condition though unfortunately due 1:34:40 to legal reasons we can only deal with 1:34:42 people the age of 18 or over so if 1:34:46 you're under the age of 18 unfortunately 1:34:48 at the moment this we can't really 1:34:50 hold these one-to-one mentoring sessions 1:34:51 with you 1:34:52 for safeguarding reasons um 1:34:55 they are out of our control 1:34:57 uh so obviously it's a bit heartbreaking 1:35:00 but we do apologize about that um but we 1:35:02 can mentor members of your family to 1:35:05 help you have that conversation with you 1:35:07 so for example if you've got certain 1:35:08 questions and you know you can't have 1:35:10 the meeting yourself because you're 1:35:11 under the age of 18 you can get a 1:35:13 brother or an uncle or 1:35:15 your mother or your father or someone to 1:35:17 have the meeting with us and we can help 1:35:18 equip them to have that conversation 1:35:20 with you 1:35:21 inshallah which is a good alternative so 1:35:23 keep that in mind too um and just pass 1:35:25 the link to people you think need it um 1:35:27 or if there's someone you know that's 1:35:28 interested in islam and they want to ask 1:35:30 questions 1:35:31 um you know we can engage in some dao 1:35:33 with them and have a conversation and 1:35:35 talk them through 1:35:36 um but you know the answers to their 1:35:38 questions etc so keep that in mind check 1:35:41 that out uh also just keep an eye on the 1:35:42 website because we do publish a lot on 1:35:44 there so there's a lot of articles being 1:35:45 put in um on the website and we're gonna 1:35:48 be releasing when is the learning 1:35:50 platform coming out 1:35:51 hopefully this week uh 1:35:53 so the learning platform inshallah is 1:35:55 going to be done this week apparently i 1:35:57 thought it was 1:35:58 in a few months or something but there's 1:36:00 a lot sooner 1:36:01 than i thought so there's going to be a 1:36:02 whole new learning platform on there 1:36:04 come talk about it 1:36:05 mention it they've got 166 people 1:36:08 you can talk to about the learning 1:36:10 platform 1:36:11 you don't look like you want it no no 1:36:13 yeah i mean i mean you could do it i 1:36:15 don't know 1:36:16 you're the big man yeah 1:36:18 yeah you're the boss 1:36:20 you're my boss oh you're my boss 1:36:22 so 1:36:26 brothers and sisters so we have a 1:36:28 learning platform that's coming out 1:36:30 and it's going to be available on the 1:36:31 website inshallah within the next week 1:36:33 and we are launching with three courses 1:36:35 one course is called awakening the truth 1:36:37 within which is an advanced our training 1:36:39 course which is a methodological course 1:36:43 and we have another version of that 1:36:44 course in spanish 1:36:46 on the site and we have 1:36:48 our landmark course called no doubt 10 1:36:50 effective strategies 1:36:51 10 effective strategies on how to do 1:36:53 with your and other people's doubts it's 1:36:55 going to be launched with those three 1:36:56 then the following week we're going to 1:36:58 have a course hopefully called the rules 1:37:00 of engagement by dr suffolk chowdhury 1:37:02 which is on monado uh debates 1:37:05 discussions from the quran perspective 1:37:07 logical fallacies logical arguments so 1:37:09 on and so forth 1:37:11 then we're going to have 1:37:14 loads of different courses coming out so 1:37:15 we've got around and we've got a course 1:37:17 on the called on being human which is 1:37:19 based on doctors manatees book on 1:37:21 othering and otherization 1:37:23 and empathy from a prophetic and quranic 1:37:25 point of view 1:37:26 we also have a course called divine 1:37:28 perfection which is on the kind of 1:37:29 maximal perfection and love of the 1:37:31 divine in islam and christianity which 1:37:34 is based on his book that's coming out 1:37:35 this month in sha allah it's actually 1:37:37 getting typesetted and edited as we 1:37:39 speak hopefully 1:37:40 and we also have a course two courses 1:37:43 from jake that's why he's here he's 1:37:44 blessed us with his presence 1:37:45 alhamdulillah 1:37:47 two in-depth courses on 1:37:49 it's atonement right uh now trinity and 1:37:51 incarnation yes trinity and incarnation 1:37:54 we have an in-depth course by our 1:37:56 beloved 1:37:57 boltonian whatever you call them in i've 1:37:59 been there like a yeah 1:38:03 um yeah so of course on nihilism 1:38:06 we have hopefully the course called the 1:38:08 divine reality and atheism coming out 1:38:11 we have uh 1:38:13 a course on the legacy of islam from his 1:38:16 historical point of view by non-rasheed 1:38:19 we have a course on liberalism we have 1:38:21 advanced our training course in arabic 1:38:24 and i think much more 1:38:25 oh and we have a course as well on 1:38:28 the quran and the secular mind 1:38:30 so if you 1:38:32 um 1:38:33 if you if like if 1:38:35 an atheist or a secular is reading the 1:38:37 quran 1:38:38 each verse where they hesitate or they 1:38:40 think this doesn't make sense whatever 1:38:42 the case may be there's going to be a 1:38:44 course on that and that's based on 1:38:47 the oxford faculty academic doctor 1:38:49 shabir akhtar and he's actually 1:38:52 delivering it for us 1:38:54 that's great that's the first time i've 1:38:56 actually announced it to be honest oh 1:38:57 wow yeah some exclusive on thought 1:38:59 adventure 1:39:00 absolutely and make dua for him because 1:39:02 you know he he was unwell uh 1:39:05 he's he's recovering but he was unwell 1:39:07 he was in a coma i think for about three 1:39:09 months oh because i'm covered yeah 1:39:16 for him and his family that you know 1:39:17 allah preserves him because he is uh 1:39:20 he's one of the most bravest academics 1:39:22 that we have in the west i think and he 1:39:24 is not really well known he knows he's 1:39:26 known for his books but when the whole 1:39:28 salman rushdie affair happened 1:39:30 he basically took on his shoulders and 1:39:31 remember we had dinner recently me sabor 1:39:34 sake of ali we had dinner with him in 1:39:36 oxford 1:39:37 and he made a really really beautiful 1:39:39 point says what's point of being 1:39:40 intellectual when you're when you're a 1:39:41 coward 1:39:42 and that's the way he is through it i 1:39:44 was like well 1:39:45 you know he's written the book the quran 1:39:47 of the second mind he's written 1:39:49 um different papers for other institutes 1:39:50 as well like japan institute and 1:39:53 renovation 1:39:54 he's done um he wrote the book be 1:39:56 careful of muhammad sallallahu alaihi 1:39:58 wasallam which really defends the 1:40:00 islamic position on 1:40:02 denigrating the prophet sallallahu 1:40:03 alaihi wasallam so and and and other 1:40:06 bits and pieces he's he's also done 1:40:08 because he knows greek as well so he's 1:40:10 he's translated the 1:40:11 the the 1:40:13 he's translated the bible 1:40:16 and he's done an analysis this is part 1:40:18 of rootledge and he's assessed 1:40:20 uh galatians i believe 1:40:22 and he's it's poor isn't it yeah yeah 1:40:24 and he's assessed it and he's got his 1:40:27 part one has come out and part two and 1:40:29 three is going to come out too and 1:40:30 that's with an academic president called 1:40:32 rootledge i believe if i if yeah and you 1:40:34 could check on his website that you 1:40:36 could google his name dr shapiro akhtar 1:40:39 um but yeah so he's he's a great mind 1:40:41 he's like a proper academic he 1:40:43 supervises phds as well and stuff i 1:40:45 think so yeah make lots of difference 1:40:47 that's exciting stuff so yeah that's 1:40:48 coming out um and it's going to be free 1:40:51 for everyone alhamdulillah yeah so 1:40:53 that's what we're going to do is uh the 1:40:54 reason we raise funds in ramadan mostly 1:40:57 in ramadan we don't really ask outside 1:40:59 of ramadan much 1:41:00 um is because we want to provide all of 1:41:02 these free services for you and the 1:41:03 online different languages as well and 1:41:05 uh yeah make door for us and make dough 1:41:07 for the brothers who are here for the 1:41:09 next two weeks 1:41:10 you know struggling and you know not 1:41:13 just for dust in their face but 1:41:15 uh you know not many dua to be 1:41:18 would actually even 1:41:21 accept such uh conditions yeah so that's 1:41:24 what i have to say i don't want to say 1:41:25 too much and you know just made a lot of 1:41:27 for them and their family yeah because 1:41:29 they're away from their family and they 1:41:31 are the true heroes it's easy to write 1:41:32 emails and 1:41:34 and and arrange stuff but the heroes are 1:41:36 doing the work in the front line so man 1:41:38 i bless every single one of you and you 1:41:39 guys are here 1:41:42 1:41:43 so yeah lots of exciting things going on 1:41:46 uh so you know follow us on all of the 1:41:48 social media thought adventure podcast 1:41:49 sapiens institute uh jake's got his own 1:41:52 channel as well the the muslim 1:41:54 metaphysician 1:41:55 uh if you start typing the muslim meta 1:41:58 ph it should pop up 1:42:00 and uh yeah and you can find him on 1:42:02 twitter facebook clubhouse yeah youtube 1:42:06 uh you can find me on youtube 1:42:09 and when i reactivate my twitter and 1:42:10 twitter sometimes yeah sometimes when 1:42:12 i've not deactivated it um but yeah so 1:42:15 just make sure you're following us on 1:42:16 all of that um keep your eye out on 1:42:19 the thought adventure podcast because 1:42:20 insha'allah we're hoping to be by 1:42:23 the 16th on 10k so we can do a 10k 1:42:26 special inshallah and 1:42:29 hopefully insha'allah have brother 1:42:30 sharif up here with us 1:42:32 and we might just keep telling 1:42:34 abdulrahman off 1:42:35 until we can convince him between now 1:42:37 and then to come 1:42:38 if it's possible insha'allah be great to 1:42:40 have him there as well and have the four 1:42:42 of us in 1:42:43 uh the president the presence of each 1:42:45 other because we're 1:42:46 scattered at different parts of the 1:42:47 globe 1:42:48 um so we've never actually met in person 1:42:50 before today or before yesterday when he 1:42:52 got here last night i'm gonna 1:42:54 um but yeah uh 1:42:57 so i think probably a good place to 1:42:59 leave yeah 1:43:01 um we'll call i don't know what we'll do 1:43:03 now maybe 1:43:04 get a drink somewhere but other than 1:43:06 that guys thank you for joining us it's 1:43:08 been nearly 200 make sure you guys 1:43:09 subscribe 1:43:11 make sure you guys share this video and 1:43:13 our channel 1:43:15 go and tell them tell them 1:43:16 yes make sure you make sure you share 1:43:19 the channel guys we want to get to 10k 1:43:21 we only got like what 300 more 1:43:24 yeah less than 300 220 yeah 220 come on 1:43:29 remember let's get it done 1:43:33 okay i'm getting 1:43:34 an angry text message 1:43:36 other 1:43:46 1:43:51 uh are um

Jake in the UK | Let's get to 10k! (2022-01-11) ​

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Summary of Jake in the UK | Let's get to 10k! ​

00:00:00 - 01:00:00 ​

01:00:00 - 01:40:00 ​

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Jake in the UK | Let's get to 10k! (2022-01-11)

Description

Summary of Jake in the UK | Let's get to 10k!

00:00:00 - 01:00:00

01:00:00 - 01:40:00