Sapient Voices #4: Sh. Mirza Yawar Baig - "Forget The Numbers To Get The Numbers" (2022-11-21) #

0:00:01 foreign
0:00:04 [Music]
0:00:15 voices where we give platform to voices
0:00:20 of wisdom and we facilitate discussion
0:00:23 in order for wisdom and reason sound
0:00:26 reason to Prevail with me I have our
0:00:29 beloved chef
0:00:31 and I'm going to introduce him before
0:00:33 bringing him on board
0:00:35 is the founder and president of York
0:00:39 bake and Associates he's an advisor
0:00:41 author life coach and corporate
0:00:43 consultant
0:00:45 he is alumni of Hyderabad public school
0:00:47 nizam college and the Indian Institute
0:00:50 of Management in Ahmedabad he drove on
0:00:53 his extensive experience of over 35
0:00:55 years in Consulting with multi-national
0:00:58 corporations government and business
0:01:01 entrepreneurs on three continents he
0:01:04 specializes in leadership development
0:01:06 and family business Consulting he's on
0:01:09 the Consulting faculty of GE corporate
0:01:12 University curtainville AMA
0:01:15 International and SVP National Police
0:01:17 Academy Hyderabad India Mr Chef Mr Mirza
0:01:22 big is the resident scholar at the
0:01:26 Islamic Society of Western Massachusetts
0:01:28 and Hampshire's mosque and Hampshire
0:01:30 mosque and the Muslim chaplain at
0:01:33 Springfield College and Westford state
0:01:34 university
0:01:35 has a keen interest in education and
0:01:38 believes that primary and secondary
0:01:40 school education is the foundation for
0:01:42 societal change to create a society
0:01:44 based on passion he is advisor to Jimmy
0:01:48 Council of Muslim theologians South
0:01:51 Africa and Sri Lanka and the association
0:01:53 association of Muslim schools South
0:01:56 Africa he founded the mahabub Habib
0:01:59 Masjid and Islamic Center in Hyderabad
0:02:01 in 2009 and was its Iman in Imam into
0:02:05 2019 when he moved to the United States
0:02:08 Shakira has written fifth sorry has
0:02:11 written 40 books including three
0:02:13 audiobooks and five books of 52 July
0:02:16 each and speaks five languages one of my
0:02:20 favorite books of is Leadership Lessons
0:02:23 of the life of rasool Allah
0:02:25 and you can find him at your what a
0:02:29 big.com
0:02:39 no the pleasure is all mine the pleasure
0:02:42 is all mine and after this podcast I
0:02:44 think the pleasure will be all theirs
0:02:46 those who are listening inshallah so I'm
0:02:48 just going to go straight into it Chef I
0:02:50 want to ask you one important question
0:02:52 which in the context of dawah sharing
0:02:56 Islam as you know sapiens Institute
0:02:57 wants to share Islam academically and
0:02:59 intellectually and develop others and
0:03:01 Empower others to do to do so the same
0:03:03 so in the context of Doubt what is the
0:03:06 number one missing ingredient that is a
0:03:10 very difficult question because
0:03:14 um I can I can probably answer it for
0:03:16 myself
0:03:18 uh and I would like to answer it for
0:03:20 myself not for everybody else but I
0:03:22 think maybe people can look at that
0:03:26 for me
0:03:29 I think it is
0:03:31 to deal with the
0:03:34 disappointment that you do not get the
0:03:37 kind of support that you want from
0:03:40 Muslims
0:03:42 for the work of dawah
0:03:46 um
0:03:47 I know that everything that we do
0:03:51 we remind ourselves that you are doing
0:03:53 it only and only for the
0:03:56 pleasure of Allah alone and for no other
0:04:00 reason
0:04:01 but it would be nice if
0:04:05 we got the kind of support that
0:04:09 would really make things happen and
0:04:13 produce results
0:04:14 now once again you know the issue of
0:04:16 saying all of these things in Islamic
0:04:18 context is that somebody will say well
0:04:20 you know results are in the hands of
0:04:22 Allah of course they are but Allah said
0:04:27 so therefore
0:04:30 um we need to make the effort and in
0:04:32 that effort if we have support
0:04:35 the example that I always think to
0:04:37 myself is
0:04:39 the entire community and Brotherhood of
0:04:43 the sahaba with rasulullah
0:04:47 now from as a as a Muslim and from a
0:04:52 position of Akita I will not say
0:04:54 rasulullah sallam could not have or
0:04:57 would not have been able to achieve his
0:04:59 results without them but if I look at it
0:05:03 from a purely objective way
0:05:06 uh as a leadership consultant then I
0:05:10 must say that
0:05:13 the role of the sahaba and the kind of
0:05:17 support they gave him
0:05:19 which was completely unstinting
0:05:21 completely sincere and total and
0:05:25 wholehearted
0:05:26 this was a huge element in the success
0:05:30 of his dawa salallah
0:05:34 and I feel that this is a this is the
0:05:37 sad thing because
0:05:39 um as I said I'm speaking for myself for
0:05:42 those
0:05:43 for whom this is a different reality all
0:05:45 part of you
0:05:46 but you do not get the support that you
0:05:49 would really like to have and so uh you
0:05:53 have to keep consoling Yourself by
0:05:54 saying that um
0:05:57 Allah only sent me to convey and I am
0:06:02 conveying
0:06:03 uh but I would be lying if I told you
0:06:07 that results were not important to me
0:06:11 uh I would be lying if I told you that I
0:06:14 am just satisfied with conveying and it
0:06:16 doesn't matter whether anyone accepts it
0:06:18 or not
0:06:20 it does matter
0:06:23 um and it is uh it makes the task much
0:06:26 more difficult uh when you do not get
0:06:29 the support of your own people and you
0:06:32 uh and your own people disappoint you in
0:06:35 that
0:06:36 so uh you know and it's not a it's not
0:06:39 an either all thing it's not that nobody
0:06:41 supports of course of course A lot of
0:06:42 people do support and so on and
0:06:44 that's uh also partially what keeps you
0:06:48 going of course it is also the you know
0:06:50 the the uh whatever the class we think
0:06:53 we have with regard to Allah but
0:06:56 definitely it is also support of people
0:06:58 but one would at the end of the day you
0:07:01 would say
0:07:02 um if only this had been more
0:07:07 Okay so
0:07:10 let's unpack that a little bit chef
0:07:12 so in terms of support
0:07:15 give me some examples what do you mean
0:07:17 because I think your experiences they
0:07:20 may be a microcosm but I think they will
0:07:22 represent a macrocosm I give an example
0:07:25 we had a Leadership Retreat just a week
0:07:30 ago I believe called The Visionaries
0:07:31 Witham and others and it was in
0:07:34 collaboration with sabil
0:07:36 and one key aspect of that Retreat which
0:07:39 by the way we referenced your material
0:07:41 may Allah bless you and in fact when was
0:07:46 delivering a session and he I think
0:07:48 quoted one of your quotes from your book
0:07:50 I think if if I remember correctly he
0:07:53 thought it was very powerful and he was
0:07:54 moved so may Allah bless you
0:07:57 and when we're delivering that Retreat
0:07:59 and mentioned something about having a
0:08:01 World Vision how you see the world and
0:08:03 your personal and organizational Vision
0:08:05 should be in some way subservient to the
0:08:08 global vision
0:08:09 and what happens unfortunately in the
0:08:11 Tao today we conflate the two we think
0:08:13 the organ organizational vision is
0:08:15 somewhat the same as the global vision
0:08:18 yes it wants to achieve that global
0:08:20 vision but then what happens is they
0:08:22 think the organization is
0:08:24 is the only vehicle for that global
0:08:27 vision which is never never the case
0:08:28 because you don't have all the in all
0:08:30 the resources at your disposal and then
0:08:32 what happens subconsciously at least
0:08:34 from a collective perspective you have
0:08:36 organizational Primacy over
0:08:39 the the Primacy of Allah because your
0:08:43 global vision must be Allah Centric and
0:08:45 akhara-centric and when we have that
0:08:47 misalignment of Visions if you like what
0:08:50 happens is we stop helping each other we
0:08:53 think I can do it myself or we have this
0:08:54 kind of collective malaise the
0:08:56 collective ego that I can do this myself
0:08:58 and it's about me and my organization
0:09:00 and we forget the bigger picture and
0:09:03 this really I already had this in mind
0:09:05 but this awakened to me the importance
0:09:07 and the Primacy of the fact that we have
0:09:09 to support everybody involved in the
0:09:11 sector because your success is My
0:09:13 Success their success is My Success it's
0:09:16 similar to the Hadith
0:09:19 the believer is a mirror of another
0:09:21 believer and you could just expand this
0:09:23 from a macro project so in that context
0:09:26 here and even your bird is agreeing with
0:09:29 us I think yeah
0:09:30 blue jay outside
0:09:32 mashallah see even even the creation of
0:09:36 Allah is affirming of what we're saying
0:09:39 the point here is give me some examples
0:09:42 let's unpack this a little bit more
0:09:43 would you mean by support and what are
0:09:46 the reasons why you think the support is
0:09:48 is not there
0:09:50 you know
0:09:52 um I think I think you'll put your
0:09:54 finger on it and I think that
0:09:58 part of the reason and I'm not talking
0:10:01 about
0:10:02 dhava organizations
0:10:04 uh part of the reason is that Dharma
0:10:08 organizations have taken their
0:10:09 methodology
0:10:11 from two sources one is Christian
0:10:14 Evangelical uh Evangelical preachers
0:10:18 and second is from the corporate
0:10:21 training work
0:10:24 uh motivational speakers Tom Peters and
0:10:26 and so on so and so on you know so
0:10:28 training now the corporate training
0:10:31 world is my world
0:10:33 so I know what what happens I know how
0:10:35 it works and and what are the foci and
0:10:37 and so on so on
0:10:40 the issue is that when you take a tool
0:10:42 the culture of the tool comes with it
0:10:46 right technology is uh not value neutral
0:10:50 and technology is not culture neutral
0:10:52 technology brings with it the ideology
0:10:55 behind that technology
0:10:57 for example if you're using artificial
0:11:00 intelligence AI for uh one of the
0:11:03 primary for uh you know powers of AI is
0:11:07 it enables a massive data searches and
0:11:11 very
0:11:12 um you know intuitive kind of uh results
0:11:16 and answers
0:11:17 it automatically brings in a thinking
0:11:21 and a ideology of the supremacy of
0:11:25 Technology
0:11:27 uh it brings in this belief that
0:11:29 technology can solve all problems
0:11:31 uh the power of technology and if you
0:11:35 are not careful then this is
0:11:38 juxtaposed against the power of Allah
0:11:40 and Allah and what Allah can do and
0:11:44 Technology becomes more powerful in our
0:11:47 minds and our understanding than the
0:11:49 father of Allah
0:11:52 so this is something to do to keep in
0:11:54 mind now what has happened I think uh
0:11:56 with the Davao organizations is that
0:11:59 they have used the Christian Christian
0:12:02 uh Evangelical preachers methodology and
0:12:06 the methodology of uh people like Tom
0:12:10 Peters uh you know and and so on uh
0:12:13 Stephen Stephen Covey and all that so
0:12:16 they are presenting Islam like
0:12:20 uh motivational courses
0:12:23 now
0:12:25 Islam As We Know
0:12:27 Allah
0:12:29 sent him with a
0:12:32 four-step process right
0:12:40 so
0:12:42 inform them teach them recite for them
0:12:45 what you what you received then prepare
0:12:48 them to receive it themselves
0:12:51 foreign
0:12:53 [Music]
0:12:56 now which means that if you simply hear
0:12:58 it without being uh your without your uh
0:13:03 heart being uh ready to receive it uh
0:13:08 it's not good it's not going anywhere
0:13:11 uh so that preparation has to be done
0:13:13 and the third one is
0:13:17 so teach teach it to them
0:13:20 and the fourth one is demonstrate how it
0:13:23 is to be practiced which is
0:13:25 the wisdom of it
0:13:27 now the example I always give
0:13:29 is that of a farmer that the farmer has
0:13:33 this absolutely fabulous seed which is
0:13:36 the most powerful seed which can give
0:13:38 him the best possible Harvest
0:13:40 but if the farmer takes the seed and
0:13:43 simply scatters it on the ground
0:13:45 the seed will will die
0:13:47 you know it's not going to give any
0:13:49 results
0:13:50 any intelligent family knows anything
0:13:52 about farming
0:13:54 we'll first he'll keep the seed safely
0:13:56 and then he will prepare the soil right
0:13:59 he will take away he will he will he
0:14:03 will plow it he will winnow it he will
0:14:06 do all the stuff with it uh he'll check
0:14:09 the pH value acidity alkalinity uh he
0:14:13 will look at pathogen soil pathogens he
0:14:16 will work on that any personal disease
0:14:19 all of this he will do he will dig
0:14:22 irrigation channels so that water can
0:14:24 get to the seed and so on then he will
0:14:26 plant the seed and that seed also he
0:14:29 will plant it in the way that specific
0:14:31 seed should be planted some seeds have
0:14:35 to be scattered some seeds have to be
0:14:38 planted deep and so on
0:14:39 right
0:14:41 um and after that he watered the seed
0:14:44 this whole process if the farmer misses
0:14:47 any of these Steps either the seed will
0:14:50 die or even if it germinates uh it will
0:14:53 wither and he will not get a crop he
0:14:57 wouldn't get a harvest
0:14:58 the issue with our Dao work is that we
0:15:03 do two things and and dawa as well as I
0:15:05 I will even include the way we teach
0:15:08 Islam uh including in the madaras and
0:15:11 the darulums if somebody has a mother's
0:15:15 system which does not uh is which is not
0:15:19 like what I am saying or I'm going to
0:15:21 say then all part you uh keep on the
0:15:24 good work
0:15:26 we we do out of the four things we do
0:15:29 too and we wish to
0:15:30 yet
0:15:32 we focus of the Quran
0:15:37 we focus on the different styles of
0:15:39 recitation and so on and so on and so on
0:15:43 preparation we have forgotten we don't
0:15:46 even know how to do that anymore
0:15:48 we do not even have teachers to know
0:15:51 what to do about it anymore
0:15:52 how do you prove how do you purify my
0:15:55 heart
0:15:57 right I come to you I say my heart is
0:15:59 impure
0:16:00 does anyone even know what to do about
0:16:02 that if somebody says to you look in
0:16:04 your heart
0:16:07 what do you see
0:16:09 do we understand this do you understand
0:16:11 the statement is it just words look in
0:16:13 the heart means what means look in the
0:16:15 pocket
0:16:17 and remember this is the statement that
0:16:19 Ibrahim alaihissalam who was at the age
0:16:22 of maybe 80 plus 90
0:16:24 said to his little son Ismail
0:16:27 about whom Allah said when he was ready
0:16:30 to walk
0:16:32 what age is that
0:16:34 we're not talking about that he's not
0:16:36 talking saying that to a 20 year old or
0:16:39 even a 15 year old we're looking at a
0:16:41 little boy
0:16:43 what did he say to him he said
0:16:47 foreign look what you see
0:16:51 after telling him that I have seen you I
0:16:54 have seen myself
0:16:56 sacrificing you to Allah in my dream
0:17:00 then he says to him
0:17:04 look what do you see
0:17:08 and the sun response straight away the
0:17:12 sun the sun doesn't say what look where
0:17:16 what kind of conversation is this
0:17:19 I have no clue what you're saying my
0:17:20 father no he knows exactly what his
0:17:23 father is saying
0:17:24 because he's connected with his heart he
0:17:27 knows what is the meaning of look at
0:17:28 your heart
0:17:31 so he tells his father he says insha
0:17:33 Allah and you will find me among the go
0:17:36 do he says do what you have in order to
0:17:39 do
0:17:40 if tomorrow
0:17:44 and you will find me among thee insha
0:17:46 Allah because he
0:17:47 again see that see this is the awareness
0:17:49 he's not saying I will have suffer he
0:17:51 does not know I mean when was the last
0:17:53 time his throat was lit so he doesn't
0:17:54 know he will have summer
0:17:56 he doesn't know that he's an insha Allah
0:18:00 so this doesn't
0:18:02 we have forgotten we focus on the
0:18:04 recitation he even hips of the Quran
0:18:07 in the big majority part of the world
0:18:10 hofas do not know what they are reciting
0:18:16 can I tell you a funny story about that
0:18:18 later on uh true story but funny story
0:18:20 anyway
0:18:21 so they memorize
0:18:24 they reside they learn how to do that
0:18:26 well beautifully and so on and so on and
0:18:28 so on
0:18:29 people sit and they
0:18:32 admire the recitation
0:18:35 oh this is
0:18:39 the question to ask is what are you
0:18:42 admiring
0:18:43 the tune
0:18:46 then how's that different
0:18:48 from admiring Bob Marley
0:18:52 that's also too
0:18:56 is that what the Quran came for to
0:18:59 admire the tube because you don't
0:19:01 understand what you're saying
0:19:04 you are just looking at the link in The
0:19:06 Voice
0:19:09 you know I remember the first time I saw
0:19:11 you in that uh leadership program in uh
0:19:15 in London what was that place
0:19:17 yeah I think it was um
0:19:19 either it was Milton Keynes it was High
0:19:21 Wycombe one of those two places right
0:19:26 and you walked into the Hall when I was
0:19:28 reciting something
0:19:31 and you pointed at me and you said that
0:19:33 is a trained voice
0:19:37 and you said I know that because I have
0:19:40 a trained voice
0:19:43 right but my point is is the recitation
0:19:45 of the Quran only about voice training
0:19:49 but that's what we have done so
0:19:52 we focus user came zero work
0:19:57 then we look at your name
0:20:01 so we focus on starting from calligraphy
0:20:05 beautifully Illustrated beautifully
0:20:07 illuminated uh then we go into teaching
0:20:12 it the tafsir the tarjuma the
0:20:15 translation the tafsir the uh the you
0:20:18 know the all of that uh and then we
0:20:21 argue about that and we have all kinds
0:20:23 of debates and we have all kinds of
0:20:25 symposia and everything you do with the
0:20:28 talim of the Quran
0:20:31 without the skin
0:20:34 and the last part which is actual
0:20:37 practice
0:20:38 again zero
0:20:42 that is our problem
0:20:45 so now the other organizations also have
0:20:47 taken Islam as a product
0:20:51 and they sell it out there as a product
0:20:54 and they see another Davao organization
0:20:56 in the same way that coke sees Pepsi
0:21:00 as competition
0:21:02 which should be destroyed
0:21:04 and we must grab market share
0:21:09 right
0:21:13 that is the problem
0:21:16 when Ibrahim al-islam was there there
0:21:19 was Luther who was his they say he was
0:21:22 his nephew
0:21:23 but he was in the same time
0:21:26 when the Malaika came to Ibrahim and
0:21:30 they said that we are on the way to
0:21:33 destroy the people of Luth
0:21:38 that's what we want
0:21:41 there was a competition fantastic
0:21:43 brilliant
0:21:46 here tears in his eyes he said what
0:21:49 about Luke
0:21:55 right now this is the this is our
0:21:57 problem
0:21:58 Islam is not a product I say to people
0:22:01 Islam
0:22:03 you got it free
0:22:04 keep it free
0:22:08 we have changed Islam into a product
0:22:10 so we run courses we sell those courses
0:22:16 and some other stuff I mean you know
0:22:17 this stuff but some of the stuff I've
0:22:19 seen it is so ultimately so bad it's not
0:22:23 funny
0:22:25 I was in Malaysia there was one Davao
0:22:28 organization Malaysia seems to have
0:22:29 become the center of uh you know all
0:22:32 these double organizations
0:22:33 so I don't know whether all of that
0:22:34 stuff is not shifting to Turkey or what
0:22:37 but um
0:22:39 there was one Java organization which
0:22:41 was which announced a weekend course
0:22:44 on Surat Yusuf
0:22:47 so another Java organization immediately
0:22:50 publishes
0:22:52 their entire text course material answer
0:22:57 Yusuf on the internet free
0:23:01 until that time it was not free until
0:23:04 that time it was not published
0:23:07 but the moment this type of organization
0:23:09 announces the course
0:23:11 they publish all that information free
0:23:14 so it is to say you don't need to go to
0:23:16 that course here it is free
0:23:19 now what is that
0:23:21 another job organization I was in I was
0:23:23 invited I was speaking beautiful big
0:23:26 Hall absolutely perfect Acoustics
0:23:29 everything
0:23:32 then they said to me they gave me the
0:23:34 name of a female a lady uh
0:23:40 uh Alima
0:23:42 whose session was the next day
0:23:47 and somebody came to me they showed me
0:23:49 the uh promotional sheet and they said
0:23:53 please notice uh in the same Hall the
0:23:57 front seats
0:23:59 are more costly than the seats at the
0:24:02 back
0:24:05 so I said why
0:24:07 they said
0:24:11 because she's a lady
0:24:15 huh
0:24:17 so I said tell the lady to put a screen
0:24:21 in front of her so speak from behind the
0:24:23 screen like like all my family and uh
0:24:25 they were able to do
0:24:28 then we'll see the fun
0:24:32 I mean what is this this is this Islam
0:24:35 this is this is money making
0:24:37 right
0:24:39 so if you want to do dhawat or Islam
0:24:43 I would say stick to the methodology
0:24:46 so four things yes
0:24:53 it must come through practice it must
0:24:55 come through the sky it must come
0:24:57 through actually physically uh you know
0:25:00 demonstrating it and not demonstrating
0:25:02 the show but devastating in our own life
0:25:04 so which people can see and learn from
0:25:07 this is and therefore the point that you
0:25:10 made which is there is no competition
0:25:12 with another dawa organization
0:25:15 that other job organization is they are
0:25:18 my brothers they are the people we are
0:25:20 both in the same work
0:25:22 so in the same area now if there are 50
0:25:25 organizations
0:25:27 we want another 50.
0:25:31 we don't say okay this is our no no this
0:25:35 fighting for Turf is is really very
0:25:38 highly undignified and disgusting
0:25:41 I mean I do I do um empathize and
0:25:45 understand what you're saying you know
0:25:46 I've been around in this sector for
0:25:48 maybe I think over 15 years now and I
0:25:52 have seen some of the things that you've
0:25:53 mentioned but there are also very good
0:25:55 Bright Stars individually and
0:25:59 organizationally that are doing some
0:26:01 very good work
0:26:02 and one thing I want to zoom in on which
0:26:05 I think I agree with mostly is the
0:26:08 aspect of
0:26:11 it is the case from my experience at
0:26:14 least where people have a fear and it
0:26:17 may be a sincere fear that if they over
0:26:20 emphasize on the kind of aspects of
0:26:23 tesquite enoughs then the focus of the
0:26:26 organization will move away from the
0:26:28 important work of doing the action and
0:26:31 doing the dawa and it will be focused on
0:26:34 let's just focus on ourselves yes one
0:26:37 would argue you could do in parallel but
0:26:39 I do kind of see their concern and their
0:26:42 fear
0:26:43 however moving on in my age now I'm
0:26:45 maybe getting a little bit more
0:26:47 experienced and actually seeing the Dao
0:26:49 in a different way and managing the art
0:26:51 I actually feel that
0:26:53 your point about the Tesco to nafs is
0:26:56 probably the most important point in our
0:26:58 dawa
0:27:08 does righteous Deeds is righteous and
0:27:10 says I am one of the Muslims
0:27:13 now sometimes we forget the second and
0:27:16 the third piece of advice here we just
0:27:18 do the Corning but we forget the
0:27:19 righteousness
0:27:21 and not only that sometimes we get
0:27:23 blinded by our own successes and we
0:27:25 don't think
0:27:26 hold on a second what if I was more
0:27:29 connected to Allah what if I did the
0:27:31 right thing internally and externally
0:27:33 maybe I would have had greater success
0:27:36 so I shouldn't Pat myself on the back
0:27:38 and this is why you know what we teach
0:27:40 sometimes is when you have success
0:27:43 you should not pat yourself from the
0:27:45 back you shouldn't have this sense of
0:27:46 self-amazement but rather what you
0:27:48 should have is you should praise Allah
0:27:51 you should do is you should repent to
0:27:54 Allah you should turn back to him just
0:27:57 like what Allah advises the prophet
0:27:59 sallallahu alaihi wasallam when he says
0:28:01 about you know when the people are going
0:28:03 to enter the religion in crowds and
0:28:06 Allah tells him how to respond to this
0:28:08 success right
0:28:14 and I think we miss that in the Tao
0:28:17 because of our lack of connection and we
0:28:19 tap ourselves on the back we've got all
0:28:20 of this success but why we never I never
0:28:23 hear people say this I'm an honesty chef
0:28:25 and it really it hurts in a way we never
0:28:28 ask what if what did I do wrong not
0:28:32 withstanding My Success notwithstanding
0:28:34 My Success what did I do wrong or not
0:28:38 totally correct internally and
0:28:41 externally that prevented me from
0:28:43 getting even better results
0:28:45 and not even not even standing in the
0:28:49 possibility that that is a valid
0:28:50 question I think that is a sign of our
0:28:51 kind of malaise so okay what should
0:28:54 people do what should do out to do and
0:28:56 organizations do to implement this
0:28:59 essential methodology of the Prophet
0:29:00 Salam which is about
0:29:03 what should they do in order to ensure
0:29:05 that the Dow is successful
0:29:09 I've got a beautiful question
0:29:12 what they should do
0:29:14 is divine success
0:29:17 what do you mean by success
0:29:20 today we are defining success in the
0:29:23 same way as Coca-Cola and Pepsi
0:29:25 headcounter
0:29:27 how many people came to my course how
0:29:29 many people came to my conference
0:29:32 how many people came to my class
0:29:35 this is not success
0:29:38 so we have to redefine success what is
0:29:41 the meaning of success
0:29:43 then everything will fall into place
0:29:48 I'll give you an example we are say for
0:29:51 example you are teaching Quran
0:29:54 hips for example right what is what is
0:29:57 your goal
0:29:58 you say my goal is this kid must
0:30:01 memorize the Quran
0:30:03 you say okay so remember the Quran
0:30:06 um how about understanding what he's
0:30:08 deciding that's not my goal
0:30:11 does it make sense
0:30:12 no person will say that but that's what
0:30:14 they're doing
0:30:16 I was in a mother in Hyderabad once
0:30:20 and I went into the dharat office the
0:30:23 hibs program
0:30:25 and you started he told me please come
0:30:27 and sit and listen to these uh these
0:30:29 boys I said so I went and sat down uh
0:30:32 one of the boys came inside in front of
0:30:33 me so I said okay so recite something
0:30:36 he started reciting suratanka both and
0:30:40 he came to the Ayah
0:30:42 kulsiro fill out of the funds Hulk
0:30:47 Allah said go and tour the Earth travel
0:30:51 in the earth and see how I have created
0:30:53 creatures
0:30:56 so I told him to stop he stopped now
0:30:59 where we were sitting
0:31:01 over to the right
0:31:03 through the door we could see into the
0:31:05 yard of the mother son
0:31:07 and they were there was a bunch of uh
0:31:10 chickens grazing in the yard
0:31:13 so I said to the boy I said look at the
0:31:16 chickens what do you understand
0:31:19 about the Ayah you just recited
0:31:21 by looking at the chickens
0:31:25 now that poor kid I mean he he was like
0:31:27 thinking you know what is the man he's
0:31:29 mad or something but of course they all
0:31:31 have others so they don't they don't
0:31:32 tell you you're crazy but you know
0:31:35 he had looked at me like I'm crazy
0:31:38 so I told him I said do you understand
0:31:40 what you decided he said you know he
0:31:42 said no
0:31:44 so I explained to you I said this is
0:31:45 what the Ayah means
0:31:47 he said okay I said now you understand
0:31:49 what you mean he said yes I said now
0:31:51 look at the chickens what do you
0:31:52 understand again zero
0:31:56 so I asked him I said tell me something
0:31:58 what is that chicken eating
0:32:00 he said insects and you know seeds and
0:32:04 grass
0:32:05 I said what about if there's a little
0:32:08 gecko a little lizard
0:32:11 what will the chicken will eat it
0:32:14 I said what happens if you eat it if you
0:32:17 eat the lizard he said I will die
0:32:18 because they are poisonous
0:32:21 I said what will happen if the chicken
0:32:24 eats the lizard
0:32:26 and then two hours later next day or
0:32:29 whatever
0:32:30 you catch the chicken you Slaughter the
0:32:33 chicken you cook the chicken and you eat
0:32:35 this chicken
0:32:36 what will happen to you which are
0:32:38 nothing
0:32:41 so either something that is poisonous
0:32:43 you which will kill you if you eat it
0:32:45 the chicken eats it
0:32:48 does not die and you eat the chicken
0:32:51 and you don't die either
0:32:54 he said now I told him now
0:32:56 look at the Ayah
0:33:00 and look at the chickens and tell me
0:33:02 what you think
0:33:03 now his eyes opened wide his jaw dropped
0:33:07 I never thought of it like that I said
0:33:10 of course not nobody teaches you like
0:33:11 this
0:33:15 this is the problem
0:33:17 Allah
0:33:30 [Music]
0:33:33 Allah said only those are the Believers
0:33:36 who when the world of Allah in the name
0:33:39 of Allah when Allah is mentioned before
0:33:41 them their hearts shiver with the glory
0:33:44 and Majesty of Allah
0:33:46 and when the ayat of Allah
0:33:49 are recited before them
0:33:52 their Iman increases and they have
0:33:54 tawakul on Allah they have trust on
0:33:57 Allah
0:33:57 now tell me and you can ask this
0:34:00 question to people
0:34:01 when was the last time
0:34:04 that as a child is sitting with his
0:34:08 ustad memorizing Quran or learning touch
0:34:11 with
0:34:13 that the Stars stopped him
0:34:15 and said you just recited this what is
0:34:20 the state of your heart
0:34:23 did it have any effect on you
0:34:29 does this happen
0:34:31 I don't know a single incident
0:34:34 that this happens
0:34:36 this is the problem with us again
0:34:41 now
0:34:42 you asked me you said if they focus they
0:34:45 are afraid that they focus too much on
0:34:46 taskia then they will lose the enough
0:34:49 units and numbers but this is what I
0:34:50 said lose the numbers of this one
0:34:52 think about it like this
0:34:54 say for example instead of running the
0:34:57 Java organization you are running a dojo
0:35:02 a Karate Dojo or an Aikido Dojo
0:35:06 right now people are students are coming
0:35:08 and they are uh learning from you
0:35:11 and you also have
0:35:13 your assistance
0:35:16 now tell me will you and your assistants
0:35:20 do your regular workout every day before
0:35:25 the students come or not
0:35:28 or will you say it's okay I know the
0:35:30 theory I can tell them this is how to do
0:35:33 use the katana and this is how this is
0:35:35 how the you know one one blow and desire
0:35:37 you block it and whatnot it doesn't
0:35:39 matter if I don't know how to do it
0:35:43 your own expertise your own ability your
0:35:47 own power with the knowledge reflect in
0:35:51 your teaching
0:35:54 and that's what is happening right now
0:35:55 that's the reason why we have these
0:35:57 numbers but if you if you look at the
0:36:00 general condition
0:36:02 it is a reflection of us that's why I
0:36:05 tell people Islam is the name of a
0:36:08 practice
0:36:09 it is not the name of a theory
0:36:12 a non-practicing Muslim is not a Muslim
0:36:16 who is a Muslim the one who practices
0:36:19 Islam not the one who knows about Islam
0:36:22 who is emotionally the one who prays not
0:36:26 the one who knows about Salah who is the
0:36:28 same the one who fasts not the one who
0:36:32 knows about fasting
0:36:34 who is the the one who did Hajj
0:36:37 not the one who knows all the arkana
0:36:42 so how does it change when we say who is
0:36:43 a Muslim
0:36:46 a Muslim is the one who practices Islam
0:36:52 so this is where the importance of
0:37:02 till the last breath in our body we have
0:37:06 to keep on doing that's the reason why
0:37:08 it is so important to have a Muslim
0:37:12 is to have somebody who you go to for
0:37:14 your own collection
0:37:17 you know our teacher uh
0:37:23 he used to say
0:37:28 foreign
0:37:49 then that person is sitting in the lap
0:37:51 of shaytan
0:37:56 yes chef
0:37:59 I Echo your views however
0:38:03 we
0:38:04 bringing back to the idea of success
0:38:07 because you mentioned in the beginning
0:38:09 you know we want people to accept our
0:38:11 efforts we want people to listen we want
0:38:14 in a way it is a sign of a class that
0:38:17 you want the numbers that you want the
0:38:19 success
0:38:20 and then you spoke about okay we need to
0:38:22 redefine success and you said it's not
0:38:24 just the numbers
0:38:26 it's about you know what we want people
0:38:29 to become like you know there's no you
0:38:31 know we want people to become Muslim for
0:38:33 example but we want them to become good
0:38:35 Muslims and not only that we want to
0:38:37 please Allah in the process and we want
0:38:40 to do it for the sake of Allah so what
0:38:42 I'm gathering from you here is
0:38:45 a sign of success is the numbers but
0:38:50 it's not necessarily the fact that just
0:38:52 because you have numbers you have
0:38:53 success because success is the greatest
0:38:57 Triumph and as Allah says in the Quran
0:38:59 the greatest Triumph is entering Jannah
0:39:01 and that means you have been enveloped
0:39:03 by the boundless mercy of Allah
0:39:05 and you did it for the sake of Allah
0:39:08 whatever you did you did it for Allah
0:39:09 it's not the amount of Deeds is the
0:39:11 weight of the Deeds Allah weighs your
0:39:13 Deeds he doesn't count them necessarily
0:39:15 so I don't want people to be confused
0:39:18 here so I I do it I don't know if I'm
0:39:20 summarizing what you're saying
0:39:21 accurately so the numbers are important
0:39:24 from the point of view that you want
0:39:25 people to accept Islam or you want
0:39:27 people to be transformed for sure but
0:39:30 Success is Not only intrinsically in
0:39:33 these vanity metrics but rather you have
0:39:36 to understand where are you in that
0:39:39 process did you do it for the sake of
0:39:40 Allah and are you having an Allah
0:39:43 Centric goal meaning do you want Allah's
0:39:46 pleasure do you want to go to paradise
0:39:47 and are you doing it in the right way
0:39:49 and are you doing it for his pleasure
0:39:51 and are you maximizing your success from
0:39:54 the point of view that you you don't
0:39:56 only want for example 10 000 people
0:39:58 memorizing the Quran but you want ten
0:40:01 thousand people not only to memorize the
0:40:03 Quran but to become the Quran as you
0:40:06 mentioned very uh very eloquently you
0:40:09 know someone who who who fasts for
0:40:12 example is is you know if you know about
0:40:15 fasting it doesn't mean you're someone
0:40:17 who fasts it's like being a more slim
0:40:20 you're in a state of surrender you're in
0:40:22 a state of peaceful surrender to Allah
0:40:24 it's a way of being not just a way of
0:40:28 knowing
0:40:29 and yes you have to have knowledge to be
0:40:31 but being is greater than knowing
0:40:34 because you can have abstract knowledge
0:40:36 and not do anything with it you can know
0:40:38 all of the ayatan vikr but never become
0:40:40 a personal vicar so am I summarizing
0:40:44 holistically what you said from
0:40:45 beginning to end so far
0:40:47 yes you are let me clarify a little bit
0:40:50 by saying that I don't see this as
0:40:53 numbers versus no okay I am saying you
0:40:56 need taskia to get the numbers
0:40:59 this is the method
0:41:02 you will you think you have numbers but
0:41:04 if you do the skia and if your heart is
0:41:07 pure those numbers will be 10 000 and
0:41:09 more Allah
0:41:12 that is the point that is the link
0:41:14 that's the way to get it
0:41:16 Allah not this or that Allah
0:41:20 right that is the point okay check so
0:41:23 the next question I have in the context
0:41:27 of the Taoist sector the Dao sphere can
0:41:29 I interrupt you of course you can yeah
0:41:32 um
0:41:33 so therefore to get the numbers you have
0:41:36 to forget about the numbers
0:41:38 and focus on the task here
0:41:41 okay
0:41:42 right
0:41:44 this is where we are saying forget the
0:41:46 numbers we're gonna say forget the
0:41:47 numbers what no we need the numbers
0:41:50 but if you really want the numbers
0:41:53 you got to focus on yourself
0:41:57 good only then will you get the numbers
0:42:00 so forget the numbers to get the numbers
0:42:07 and one would argue practically and even
0:42:09 from an Islamic perspective you should
0:42:11 do both in parallel you should do the
0:42:13 action
0:42:14 and keep on refining the action because
0:42:16 only through the action you get a class
0:42:17 you don't just give it up but at the
0:42:19 same time you have to work on
0:42:21 internalizing the dean being an
0:42:23 embodiment of Islam and just trying your
0:42:26 best and getting closer to Allah will
0:42:28 tell them freeing yourself from the
0:42:29 spiritual diseases which can prevent
0:42:31 your success and the organizational
0:42:34 success and the entire almost success
0:42:37 so would you agree that it's a parallel
0:42:40 thing it's not one or the other no not
0:42:42 even parallel
0:42:43 the numbers are the result
0:42:47 leave the result
0:42:50 the result is because of something you
0:42:52 are doing
0:42:54 so focus on that something
0:42:56 and that something is your taskia it is
0:42:59 the acquisition of knowledge it's the
0:43:01 preparation of the heart and how to
0:43:03 receive that knowledge it is our
0:43:05 Behavior it is our clock
0:43:07 all of this will result in the numbers
0:43:10 so forget the numbers
0:43:12 okay
0:43:13 so let me Define what I said I agree
0:43:15 with that what I'm saying is when you're
0:43:18 working on something you're working on
0:43:19 yourself but from a dial context you're
0:43:21 also working on the action of giving
0:43:23 dawa so I agree the numbers will come
0:43:27 Aslam says indeed My Success is only
0:43:30 from Allah alone success is from Allah
0:43:33 so what we're saying here is we're not
0:43:35 making a false dichotomy of focus on the
0:43:38 internal then do the action the dawa
0:43:41 we're saying doing those things at the
0:43:43 same time
0:43:44 and then the numbers will come
0:43:47 yeah yeah obviously action of that I'm
0:43:50 speaking is part of the part of the
0:43:51 working on yourself but the reason is
0:43:53 important because there are some people
0:43:54 I think sometimes maybe they say just
0:43:56 focus inside and do the action later by
0:43:59 alhamdulillah okay that's clear so in
0:44:01 the context of the Dallas sector my
0:44:04 beloved
0:44:05 you write in your book about the need or
0:44:08 the necessity of the importance of
0:44:10 having an extraordinary lofty goal okay
0:44:14 what were you trying to convey and why
0:44:18 is it important
0:44:20 you know uh again we go to this
0:44:23 motivational speaker's uh issue
0:44:27 think about this
0:44:29 somebody is standing at the base camp
0:44:34 at the bottom of Mount Everest
0:44:36 does he need a motivational speech
0:44:44 right there's no way
0:44:46 he doesn't need it why because the
0:44:48 mountain motivates him
0:44:51 even to get to the base camp requires an
0:44:54 enormous level of physical fitness
0:44:58 you can't just you don't go there by
0:44:59 helicopter you you are you track up
0:45:02 so somebody who went to the base camp is
0:45:05 someone who's already spent a couple of
0:45:08 years if not more preparing himself
0:45:11 getting the level of physical fitness
0:45:13 then all the equipment and whatnot he
0:45:15 needs and now he's standing at the base
0:45:17 camp you know you're talking about
0:45:19 motivation the mountain motivates him
0:45:22 but if you take the same thing Mount
0:45:25 Everest is eight kilometers long eight
0:45:28 kilometers tall right see why is it
0:45:31 usually I'm gonna go out of my house out
0:45:34 of my gate and I will walk 10 kilometers
0:45:37 so you must give me a medal and I'm
0:45:40 equal to Edmond Hillary who climbed
0:45:42 Mount Everest because he only walked
0:45:44 eight kilometers on Earth
0:45:46 he wasn't flying right
0:45:49 eight kilometers on Earth but I walk 10
0:45:53 kilometers also on Earth
0:45:57 but I'll be the same
0:45:59 no we're not not by long shot why
0:46:02 because it is not the Earth
0:46:05 it is the gradient it is the angle of
0:46:07 the earth which counts
0:46:10 so that is the that is the the thing why
0:46:13 an extraordinary goal because the goal
0:46:15 itself motivates
0:46:18 it's the nature of extraordinary goals
0:46:20 to inspire extraordinary effort
0:46:26 nobody Rises to low expectations
0:46:29 people rise to high expectations
0:46:33 so that's the uh that's the reason
0:46:36 that was actually very important you
0:46:38 know as a as a leadership trainer now
0:46:40 I've been doing this thing now for
0:46:42 almost 40 years
0:46:44 the most difficult thing absolutely
0:46:47 without parallel the most difficult
0:46:50 thing is to get people to change their
0:46:52 beliefs
0:46:54 you can get people to change attitude
0:46:56 you can get people to change Behavior
0:46:59 very easily
0:47:00 I have a book called hiring winners
0:47:05 it's a book on on behavioral
0:47:07 interviewing and so on so it's a book on
0:47:09 hiring
0:47:10 the thing I say there is
0:47:12 higher values
0:47:15 trained skills
0:47:19 never try to train values you won't
0:47:21 succeed
0:47:23 if you want people of high integrity
0:47:25 higher people of high integrity
0:47:27 don't hire Boris Johnson and expect him
0:47:29 to give you high integrity it's not
0:47:31 going to happen
0:47:32 right the British people learn that to
0:47:35 that to their cost the the point I'm
0:47:38 saying here is that uh
0:47:40 the most difficult thing is to change
0:47:43 people's values and to change people's
0:47:45 beliefs
0:47:46 that was the goal of rasura
0:47:50 he was not focused on Behavior Behavior
0:47:52 was a result of that the Salah was
0:47:55 Behavior
0:47:56 as a result of changing who you worship
0:48:01 so he didn't call people and say look
0:48:02 I'm going to trade you in Salah you know
0:48:04 if nothing it'll at least improve your
0:48:05 flexibility and it will give you better
0:48:07 digestion no
0:48:11 so the goal is so almost impossible if
0:48:15 you think about this what on Earth I
0:48:18 mean couldn't you think of something
0:48:19 easier
0:48:21 no
0:48:24 the goal inspires the bigger the goal
0:48:26 the bigger the inspiration
0:48:33 and this is uh interesting because the
0:48:35 prophet salallahu alaihi wasallam he
0:48:37 told us in Hadith if you're going to ask
0:48:39 for Jannah then ask for those right the
0:48:41 highest level of gender also Allah says
0:48:44 in the Quran you know those who just you
0:48:46 know those who ask for the for the Dunya
0:48:49 and the this is where the the acceptance
0:48:53 of the success lies right so this is
0:48:55 very important because the Quran and the
0:48:57 Sunnah they they Advocate and they
0:48:58 promote and they Inspire having this
0:49:00 lofty goal alhamdulillah well at Queen
0:49:03 what you said in the beginning shift
0:49:04 that you know people need support people
0:49:06 need Community Support they need a team
0:49:08 they need people around them to be
0:49:10 successful and you said that was one of
0:49:11 the kind of personal issues that you're
0:49:13 facing so link to this having a lofty
0:49:16 goal
0:49:17 we we know it can't be achieved Alone
0:49:19 look at the best person who worked on
0:49:21 this planet the prophet saws from a
0:49:24 practical point of view he didn't do it
0:49:26 alone he had his sahaba and the sahaba
0:49:28 had the tabian and so on and so forth so
0:49:30 from the and and we know you know 80
0:49:32 years after the greatest Calamity that
0:49:35 hit this ummah and the greatest Calamity
0:49:37 to have hit this ummah is not the Mongol
0:49:39 invasion it's not the ransacking of
0:49:41 Baghdad it was the death of our beloved
0:49:42 prophet
0:49:44 and 80 years after his death
0:49:47 in Pakistan or in Spain
0:49:51 so the achievements were happening after
0:49:53 the death of Solomon because the lofty
0:49:55 goal you know a lofty Vision transcends
0:49:58 your lifetime
0:49:59 so
0:50:00 obviously such an optical cannot be
0:50:02 achieved alone whatever lofty goal that
0:50:04 we we select and obviously the lofty
0:50:06 goal has to be Allah Centric and
0:50:08 akhara-centric meaning you should want
0:50:10 the pleasure of Allah and we should have
0:50:12 Allah in mind from the point of view
0:50:13 that we're doing it for his sake so in
0:50:15 this context
0:50:16 how does a leader who has who has who
0:50:19 has this lofty goal develop and motivate
0:50:22 a team in order for such a goal to be
0:50:25 achieved
0:50:26 okay
0:50:28 two things two words if you forget just
0:50:30 remind me one is weighing scale and two
0:50:33 is foundation stones
0:50:35 okay weighing skills okay yep
0:50:41 I'm linking it back also to what I said
0:50:43 with regard to you know you said what's
0:50:45 the disappointment I said getting
0:50:48 you know sufficient support from our own
0:50:50 people now
0:50:53 I don't know if you've seen this but uh
0:50:56 any of our
0:50:58 you know the viewers and listeners
0:51:00 especially in uh the Indian
0:51:03 subcontinents India Pakistan Bangladesh
0:51:05 and probably the same thing applies uh
0:51:07 in Africa as in and Middle East
0:51:10 if you go to a shop to buy food drinks
0:51:14 you know rice wheat
0:51:16 barley Maize Walnut corn
0:51:20 so say you get you go to the shop and
0:51:23 you tell the guy I want uh 20 kilograms
0:51:26 of rice
0:51:27 so you we have these uh weighing scales
0:51:30 you know the the typical scale like two
0:51:33 two pans and and a pivot in the middle
0:51:36 so what this guy does is he takes a 20
0:51:38 kilogram weight and he puts it in one
0:51:40 pan so now this pan is sitting on the
0:51:42 countertop the other pan is up in the
0:51:44 air
0:51:46 then he takes a scoop and he takes the
0:51:50 grain out of the sack and he pours it
0:51:53 into the pan on the top
0:51:55 so this pan is here he's pouring gray
0:51:57 into the drum
0:51:58 so now you ask for 20 kilograms this is
0:52:00 a 20 kilogram weight here and he's
0:52:02 pouring it
0:52:03 now imagine the scene and I would
0:52:06 suggest to people just go and do this
0:52:08 physically see it for yourself
0:52:10 this guy is now put in five kilograms
0:52:14 do you see any change I mean this this
0:52:16 pan is sitting on the on the on the
0:52:18 countertop this the bodies are do you
0:52:21 see any change no
0:52:23 he keeps pouring he's maybe put into 10
0:52:25 kilograms 15 kilograms
0:52:28 is there any change no they're still
0:52:31 sitting on the on the on the countertop
0:52:33 they're still up in the air
0:52:34 now has it ever happened to you that
0:52:37 this guy says to you he says yes you
0:52:40 know what this is not working
0:52:42 right this cannot work why don't you go
0:52:44 to some other shop
0:52:46 there's no way that 20 kilograms is
0:52:48 going to happen
0:52:49 will you do that he'll never do that
0:52:52 if you send it to me we'll laugh
0:52:55 what does he do he continues to put in
0:52:58 that voice
0:52:59 until he comes to 19 maybe 19 and a half
0:53:04 kilograms now at 19 and a half kilograms
0:53:07 you see there is some movement this pan
0:53:10 which was sitting on the countertop is
0:53:13 starting to go up and the other one is
0:53:14 starting to come down the guy now
0:53:16 instead of using a scope he uses his
0:53:19 hand he takes the Grain in his hand and
0:53:22 he releases it a little bit at a time
0:53:24 like this
0:53:27 until the pans are level and then he's a
0:53:30 smart guy so he puts in a little more so
0:53:32 you are happy
0:53:33 and he gives you your 20 kilograms of
0:53:35 grain
0:53:36 now what do you learn from this what did
0:53:38 I learn from this I learned two
0:53:40 inalienable
0:53:43 fundamental truths
0:53:46 first truth
0:53:48 until 19 and a half kilograms nothing
0:53:51 will happen
0:53:53 if second fundamental truth
0:53:57 20 kilograms the balance will tip
0:54:01 both are equally true
0:54:03 so if you're doing the work of dawa and
0:54:05 you say well I am working so hard and so
0:54:07 on and so on like I said you know I wish
0:54:09 I was I wish there was more support yes
0:54:11 I agree I wish it was more support but
0:54:13 have I stopped working because of that
0:54:14 no
0:54:16 because I am I know that I am still not
0:54:19 at 19 and a half
0:54:21 will I get to 19 and a half before I die
0:54:23 I don't know
0:54:25 maybe I will maybe I won't
0:54:28 it doesn't matter because Allah is
0:54:30 watching
0:54:31 so we work with patients and we say if
0:54:34 nothing is happening guess what nothing
0:54:36 is supposed to happen
0:54:38 that is how it's supposed to be
0:54:43 but
0:54:44 the other truth is equally true when you
0:54:47 get to 20
0:54:49 actually a little bit before 20. the
0:54:51 balance will tip no doubt about that
0:54:56 by second door Foundation stones
0:55:00 supposing you are a rock
0:55:04 now the somebody who's building this
0:55:08 iconic absolutely fabulous structure
0:55:10 call it what you are you can call it a
0:55:12 budget call it what you want but some
0:55:14 beautiful fantastic structure and part
0:55:16 of the design is that this structure the
0:55:19 front of it is going to be sheathed in
0:55:23 uh in in this marble or granite or
0:55:26 something
0:55:27 now you are this block of granite
0:55:30 and I am another block of granite and
0:55:32 we've got a whole bunch of blocks of
0:55:34 granite
0:55:35 and we say you know what I want to be on
0:55:38 that front
0:55:40 I want to be on the I want to be
0:55:42 polished and I want to be on the front
0:55:43 of this building
0:55:45 the world must see me
0:55:48 so somebody says to you look
0:55:51 before that building get to that stage
0:55:53 where they start shielding the front
0:55:55 with with the with granite
0:56:00 there has to be a foundation
0:56:02 you gotta dig in the ground
0:56:04 and people like you granites like you
0:56:06 have to go in there
0:56:08 to be buried never to be seen again
0:56:15 and unless that happens
0:56:17 there is no building
0:56:19 there will be no structure
0:56:21 there can be no structure
0:56:25 are you willing to go into the
0:56:27 foundation
0:56:28 to be buried never to be seen again so
0:56:32 that that structure can stand on your
0:56:35 shoulders
0:56:37 nobody will know you're there
0:56:39 except
0:56:40 The Constructor except the contractor
0:56:43 who built it
0:56:48 but because you are there
0:56:50 that structure stands
0:56:57 at the end of our very short life
0:57:00 foreign
0:57:03 what success did you see
0:57:05 sure some people accepted Islam at his
0:57:07 hands but
0:57:09 within courts success and spread of
0:57:11 Islam and so on and so forth
0:57:14 when Hawaii
0:57:17 was being chopped up into pieces
0:57:22 and they asked him
0:57:26 what does Muhammad mean to you they
0:57:29 didn't actually asking that question but
0:57:30 I'm not leading to that for some another
0:57:32 thing incidentally this Bible
0:57:37 they asked him how would you like
0:57:39 Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam to
0:57:42 be in your place
0:57:43 and you go free
0:57:46 what did he say
0:57:49 he said
0:57:50 I would not want even a thorn to prick
0:57:55 Muhammad and I would and I am free and
0:57:59 and happy with my family I would not
0:58:01 even want that he said if my life goes
0:58:03 to prevent a fawn from pricking his foot
0:58:06 my life is well spent
0:58:10 so as they chopped him up
0:58:12 he looked over at the heavens and he
0:58:14 said hola
0:58:16 sent by Salaam
0:58:18 to Muhammad rasulullah
0:58:22 hey
0:58:25 this is not about standing and seeing
0:58:26 Nasheed and saying no
0:58:32 these are the rocks
0:58:35 these are the rocks on which
0:58:39 the structure stands
0:58:42 and there are so many of them
0:58:47 what success did she see
0:58:49 she said and she was killed
0:58:52 her husband
0:58:58 what success did he see
0:59:02 there's so many of them
0:59:05 but if they had not
0:59:07 agreed to be buried in the earth never
0:59:10 to be seen again
0:59:12 there would be no Islam
0:59:15 there would be no structure to stand on
0:59:17 them
0:59:19 so today we have all these shiny faces
0:59:23 but the reality is there
0:59:36 this is um very uh pertinent because
0:59:42 I think
0:59:44 many of our Dua many of the preachers
0:59:47 many of the scholars are out there in
0:59:49 the world they have to realize that
0:59:50 they're standing on the shoulders of
0:59:51 giants
0:59:52 and not only that the standing on the
0:59:54 shoulders of people that they don't even
0:59:56 know
0:59:57 and we're starting on these Foundation
1:00:00 stones
1:00:01 that only Allah knows and we don't even
1:00:04 really know
1:00:06 and I think this is extremely important
1:00:09 especially in our context because
1:00:10 sometimes
1:00:12 it's about the speaker it's about the
1:00:14 leader it's about the one in the front
1:00:17 and forget that in actual fact for all
1:00:19 of this even to be possible
1:00:21 fundamentally is because of Allah but he
1:00:23 has placed certain Foundation stones in
1:00:27 order for the structure and the building
1:00:28 of dower to be erected and to stay
1:00:31 upright and stable and strong Allah has
1:00:35 placed certain Foundation stones and
1:00:36 only Allah knows about them and we don't
1:00:39 and sometimes we Chase being you know we
1:00:42 want to be the windows and we want to be
1:00:44 the you know the what people could see
1:00:49 but fundamentally one would argue that
1:00:52 the foundation Stones get the most
1:00:54 reward right because they had a class or
1:00:57 at least because they're not known
1:01:00 and they were willing to be buried and
1:01:02 rotten they were willing to be buried
1:01:04 and forgotten in order for the tower to
1:01:06 be successful
1:01:11 in India
1:01:19 the argument from God
1:01:22 yes yes yes
1:01:31 um
1:01:32 no
1:01:34 one of his sons
1:01:36 I can't remember exactly if it was one
1:01:39 of the others all of them are great
1:01:41 Scholars and great mothers
1:01:44 so he had a lecture in the JAMA Masjid
1:01:50 the Boggle mosque the big Shahi mask in
1:01:54 Delhi
1:01:55 and obviously thousands of people
1:01:57 because you know it was very well known
1:01:59 and there's a thousands of people huge
1:02:02 crowd
1:02:03 and obviously those days there were no
1:02:05 mics and so on so they used to have
1:02:06 people who communicated so they would
1:02:08 listen to him and they would repeat
1:02:11 and this happened
1:02:13 so this was after Isha so by the time
1:02:15 the whole
1:02:17 lecture finished maybe hour and a half
1:02:19 uh it was late in the night
1:02:25 so he finished the lecture he
1:02:27 came inside
1:02:29 in one of the rooms of the Masjid and as
1:02:32 he was sitting there and some of his
1:02:35 special murids they were with him
1:02:38 a man came
1:02:40 now this man was a villager from some
1:02:44 Village in in central India
1:02:47 uh maybe a farmer or something some poor
1:02:50 man
1:02:52 foreign how unfortunate I am she said
1:02:56 what happened he said you know I came
1:02:58 from my Village to listen to you
1:03:01 but I my Village is far away and you
1:03:04 know transportation and all kind of
1:03:05 stuff and I got delayed and now when I
1:03:07 get here I find that your lecture is
1:03:09 over
1:03:10 your speech is over now what do I do I
1:03:12 he said I'm so sorry I'm so sorry for
1:03:15 myself that you know I took all this
1:03:16 trouble I came all this way and now I've
1:03:18 lost everything
1:03:20 no
1:03:27 foreign
1:03:34 and he delivered his entire lecture of
1:03:38 that same one and a half hours to that
1:03:40 one villager
1:03:43 right same passion same everything
1:03:49 that man was absolutely delighted and he
1:03:52 you know he kissed his hand he said and
1:03:55 he blessed him and he gave a lot of Dua
1:03:58 and so on and so on and they left
1:04:00 after the man went his muridine
1:04:04 his disciples they said to him they said
1:04:07 she had a very strange thing
1:04:09 uh how is it possible that you know you
1:04:11 gave this lecture to 10 000 people and
1:04:15 with all this passion and and you know
1:04:18 all the the evidence and the Quran and
1:04:22 the Hadith and so on and then this one
1:04:24 guy who is this one we don't even know
1:04:26 who is this guy some poor related from
1:04:28 someone it's not as if he's the governor
1:04:30 or the King was another thing is no we
1:04:32 don't know who is we'd probably never
1:04:34 see him again
1:04:36 and you give the same lecture to that
1:04:39 one guy with the same quality
1:04:41 just one how is it possible
1:04:46 he said to them he said you know you
1:04:49 have been with me for so many years and
1:04:51 you've wasted your time
1:04:54 he said looks like you learned nothing
1:04:57 why do you say that
1:04:59 he said because when I was speaking to
1:05:02 10 000 people
1:05:03 I was trying to please why
1:05:08 and when I am speaking to that one man I
1:05:10 was trying to please the same one
1:05:13 what difference does it make to be
1:05:15 whether there are 10 000 or 10 million
1:05:18 or one or nobody
1:05:20 but difference doesn't matter
1:05:24 that is what I meant by forget the
1:05:27 numbers to get the numbers
1:05:29 he got his ten thousand he got his ten
1:05:31 thousand because he didn't care about
1:05:33 the ten thousand he cared about Allah
1:05:40 you know I was many years ago about
1:05:42 almost 20 25 years ago I was in a
1:05:47 in Los Angeles
1:05:50 so there I met this jamaat which came
1:05:54 from
1:05:55 turned out to be a little village
1:05:57 between the Afghanistan Pakistan border
1:06:01 they are what they call the sarath
1:06:03 these people could barely speak English
1:06:06 so we were sitting and you know drinking
1:06:08 some tea and chatting with them so ask
1:06:09 them I said where are you from and you
1:06:12 know which is it a big city and this is
1:06:14 a lot of jamaats go from here so I said
1:06:17 you know it's a big place they said no
1:06:19 no this is a one small village
1:06:21 so I said then how come all of this
1:06:24 they said it's a strange story
1:06:27 they said that one of our Village guys
1:06:33 he went in how many people came an event
1:06:36 with them he went spent four months or
1:06:38 whatever he's been
1:06:40 he came back
1:06:41 and when he came back he did what w
1:06:44 people usually do which is Thursday
1:06:46 evening or Wednesday evening he said
1:06:47 after he stood up and said after Salah
1:06:51 after the Sunnah uh we will speak about
1:06:54 the manager
1:06:56 foreign
1:07:07 [Music]
1:07:11 so there's nobody there
1:07:13 he said this man however did a funny
1:07:15 thing
1:07:16 he said what he did was
1:07:18 you know in our massage in uh in the
1:07:20 subordinate we have
1:07:22 caps
1:07:24 so usually these caps are made of straw
1:07:26 or something they're all stuck up so
1:07:28 anyone comes to pray who doesn't have a
1:07:31 cap he will wear this cap because very
1:07:33 very
1:07:34 particular about this praying with the
1:07:36 with your head cover
1:07:37 so there was this stack of caps what
1:07:40 this man did was
1:07:41 he went and he took a bunch of caps
1:07:45 he arranged those caps in a semicircle
1:07:47 on the on the carpet of the Masjid the
1:07:51 floor of the Masjid in front of him
1:07:53 he stood up and he delivered his Bayan
1:07:57 his lecture to those caps
1:08:02 put them back foreign
1:08:16 they said that this man not only did
1:08:18 that one time he said he continued to do
1:08:21 that week after week after week after
1:08:25 week
1:08:27 so they said a month pass two months
1:08:29 past three months passed six months
1:08:30 passed
1:08:31 he said then
1:08:33 drugs started in our village
1:08:36 and people said to one another they said
1:08:37 why are we doing this to him he is our
1:08:40 brother
1:08:41 he's from our village he's related to us
1:08:43 all the money is saying is come and
1:08:45 don't listen to the greatness of Allah I
1:08:48 say what's our problem why why don't we
1:08:50 go and listen
1:08:52 and they said to each other you know
1:08:54 this is very bad we are we are we are at
1:08:56 fault we cannot treat our brother like
1:08:58 this we are insulting him for what
1:09:01 he has not asked us for anything
1:09:04 he said people started sitting
1:09:07 and that the rest is history
1:09:11 we focus on the process
1:09:15 not on the result that's the reason why
1:09:17 Allah taught us to ask for the process
1:09:25 Allah guide me to the path
1:09:28 it is no guide me to the path the
1:09:32 benefit of focusing on the process is if
1:09:35 you get the process right
1:09:37 the destination the goal is automatic
1:09:41 and it is automatic in the right way
1:09:47 now Islam in Islam with Allah both the
1:09:51 destination and the path both the goal
1:09:53 and the process are important the means
1:09:55 and the ends
1:09:57 in Islam there's no concept of the end
1:10:00 at any means or any Orion means right
1:10:05 and is not important no
1:10:07 numbers are important but getting the
1:10:10 numbers in the right way is equally
1:10:12 important if you focus only on the
1:10:14 numbers it is possible that you get the
1:10:16 wear on
1:10:18 that you end up getting numbers through
1:10:20 means which may be you know wrong in in
1:10:24 several ways
1:10:25 but if you focus on the means you focus
1:10:28 on the parents
1:10:30 on the sirat
1:10:31 then the numbers will automatically come
1:10:33 the gold will automatically come and
1:10:34 they will come in the right way
1:10:36 and you will please Allah that's the
1:10:39 most important thing absolutely because
1:10:41 as we said success is the greatest the
1:10:44 greatest triumph which is going to
1:10:47 Jannah attaining the pledge of Allah
1:10:50 redefine success how do we define
1:10:52 success
1:10:57 or Pepsi does it yeah sure and our
1:11:00 vision must be connected to the Islamic
1:11:02 definition of success now coming back to
1:11:04 the question which there it I know you
1:11:06 went off in a different direction but I
1:11:08 think it's quite connected about how do
1:11:11 you develop a team in order to achieve
1:11:13 that lovely goals one Gathering from
1:11:15 what you've said so far it's we need a
1:11:18 team that have the right values that
1:11:20 follow the correct process in order to
1:11:22 achieve that lofty goal
1:11:25 yeah absolutely it is it is you you have
1:11:27 to get the right people
1:11:29 you recruit the right people it happens
1:11:31 it happens slowly it happens over time
1:11:34 but one of the most important things is
1:11:37 to focus on what each person brings to
1:11:40 the team
1:11:42 and don't and where there may be a
1:11:44 possibility in some cases that uh you
1:11:47 may not even like somebody or it may be
1:11:49 some ego issue or some personality
1:11:51 problem one must not allow that to come
1:11:54 in the way
1:11:55 of getting that person on board
1:11:58 again back to Sarah take somebody like
1:12:03 uh
1:12:05 Abu sufyan right
1:12:10 there's not necessarily the nicest of
1:12:12 people they're not necessarily people
1:12:13 that rasulullah love from day one
1:12:16 these people what is what is what is
1:12:18 what is after his blood I mean they were
1:12:19 people who were trying to kill him I
1:12:21 mean the only reason they didn't succeed
1:12:22 is because Allah did not allow them to
1:12:24 succeed
1:12:26 but when it came to recruiting them on
1:12:29 the team rasulullah treated them like
1:12:32 his dearest and closer friends
1:12:36 because he saw the value of what Khalid
1:12:39 could bring to his team and you know as
1:12:43 I say the rest is history
1:12:45 and and they became his closest
1:12:47 companions they begin exactly yeah did
1:12:49 it because I mean they did become and
1:12:51 that's the result that is the reason of
1:12:54 the way he treated them
1:12:55 yes because he related and related to
1:12:58 them in a way that optimized them and
1:13:01 this is very it reminds me of the story
1:13:03 of fodala IBN now was someone who
1:13:07 nominally became Muslim but wanted to
1:13:10 kill the prophet sallallahu alaihi
1:13:12 wasallam and he was circumambilating the
1:13:14 Kaaba and I think he was saying
1:13:16 something to himself
1:13:19 noticed this and he asked him you know
1:13:21 what are you saying to yourself
1:13:23 [Music]
1:13:24 basically I think just dismissed it and
1:13:27 then the person put his hand on for his
1:13:30 heart or chest
1:13:31 and said ask Allah to forgive you now
1:13:35 after he said after this point no one
1:13:37 was more beloved to me than the prophet
1:13:39 sallallahu alaihi wasallam so this is
1:13:41 someone who wanted to kill the person
1:13:42 but look at how the prophet saws related
1:13:45 with his behavior with his way of being
1:13:47 with his words he related to people in
1:13:51 the right context in the right way to
1:13:52 optimize them to get the best version of
1:13:55 them and I call this how you relate is
1:13:58 what you create right how you relate
1:14:00 with what you create just like for
1:14:02 example chef the president had held him
1:14:05 he had a lot of forbearance in the
1:14:06 famous story of the Jewish man he came
1:14:07 up to him and pulled him by the collar
1:14:09 or by the cloth and he left the Mark I
1:14:11 believe and once sahabi was angry and
1:14:13 the person responded with halim with
1:14:16 forbearance just like what he says in
1:14:18 sort of verse 34 good and even are not
1:14:21 the same repel by that which is better
1:14:23 and between two people there's only
1:14:24 enmity who would turn to intimate
1:14:26 friendship and this is difficult except
1:14:27 for the patient and this Jewish man he
1:14:29 became Muslim because he was waiting for
1:14:31 one more sign of prophethood he saw two
1:14:33 signs he needed one more and that sign
1:14:36 was with not repelling by that which is
1:14:39 better essentially and we know that
1:14:41 early must say repelling by that which
1:14:42 is better is repelling by that which is
1:14:44 more virtuous and by that which is more
1:14:46 beautiful
1:14:47 so this is this this is very important
1:14:50 so what you're basically saying is the
1:14:52 process in his relation to the sahaba
1:14:54 optimize them but at the same time he
1:14:57 selected the right people for the right
1:14:58 job irrespective of anything else right
1:15:01 and in in our context when we want to
1:15:04 hire people we shouldn't do it because
1:15:06 oh I like him more or he plays chess
1:15:08 with me on Sundays or he likes the same
1:15:10 coffee as me or whatever the case may be
1:15:12 but it's because I truly believe that
1:15:15 this person has what it takes internally
1:15:17 and externally in order to achieve the
1:15:20 results and my Affinity towards him my
1:15:24 relation towards him should be
1:15:26 irrelevant as much as possible so this
1:15:28 is a very very good point so check
1:15:30 following on from this
1:15:33 now this is interesting now you
1:15:37 mentioned in your book putting putting
1:15:39 oneself on the line in other words
1:15:41 courage right and I would argue a lot of
1:15:45 academics and intellectuals and even the
1:15:47 art they lack what I would call a sense
1:15:50 of
1:15:51 courage from that perspective why is
1:15:55 courage so important in the dawah what
1:15:58 does it mean when you put yourself on
1:15:59 the line
1:16:05 I want to sort of Define or broaden the
1:16:08 definition it's not only uh or rather
1:16:10 maybe in in a modern dawa context it
1:16:14 might not be related to any physical
1:16:16 danger at all in the first place right
1:16:18 sure
1:16:20 being irrespective of consequences right
1:16:23 or saying the right thing exactly and
1:16:26 also courage as in uh you know
1:16:29 developing any physical consequences but
1:16:31 it's the question of doing something and
1:16:33 you're not getting not getting success
1:16:35 and would you still continue to
1:16:37 persevere and so on so all of this takes
1:16:39 a lot of courage
1:16:41 um
1:16:43 so this courage is if I take it and put
1:16:47 it in another context which is
1:16:48 entrepreneurial
1:16:49 uh one of the very important things that
1:16:53 we
1:16:53 look for
1:16:56 um and and say for example as Venture
1:16:58 capitalists uh if somebody is making a
1:17:01 pitch to you and asking you to invest
1:17:03 one of the most important thing they see
1:17:06 is what is the level of your own
1:17:09 investment in your in your startup
1:17:12 because the reality is that only
1:17:14 startups in which the promoter
1:17:18 has significant investment
1:17:22 can go to success
1:17:24 so unless you have put your neck on the
1:17:27 on the line
1:17:28 I'm not going to fund you because this
1:17:31 is your baby and if you are not
1:17:33 interested enough uh to literally put
1:17:36 your neck on the line I'm not interested
1:17:40 right I'm not sure that my money is in
1:17:42 the right place because then you are
1:17:43 going to be playing again with the money
1:17:45 I don't want that right I want to return
1:17:47 and my return will come only if your
1:17:49 life depends on this thing
1:17:52 so that is the meaning of God which is
1:17:54 that what is the level of your
1:17:55 investment
1:17:57 um the the example you gave of uh of
1:18:00 Warriors and and people of knowledge
1:18:02 again it's the the whole issue comes to
1:18:05 that it is not just you know uh
1:18:09 uh blind uh being combative and so on
1:18:11 which we see quite a lot I mean you see
1:18:13 people uh in the name of dawa for
1:18:16 example uh being so uh
1:18:19 combative uh without any concern for
1:18:23 people you know literature are costing
1:18:25 people in the street and and uh and
1:18:27 talking to them in ways which are uh
1:18:30 frankly between humans are quite
1:18:31 offensive I mean if somebody had talked
1:18:34 to me like that I'd be I would be
1:18:35 offended before anything else
1:18:36 uh but that's the reason because there
1:18:39 is no there is no you know investment in
1:18:41 in your own learning
1:18:43 so I think that's courage is very very
1:18:46 important and courage encouraged means
1:18:49 uh to continue despite
1:18:53 a despite a lack of visible results
1:18:58 by all means look at your method maybe
1:19:00 the reason for lack of visible results
1:19:02 is because the method is not working but
1:19:06 you don't give up you you which you can
1:19:08 you can change the method make it more
1:19:10 compatible and more more uh you know
1:19:13 effective but uh you continue the effort
1:19:17 and that takes a lot of Courage
1:19:19 and would you say courage would be
1:19:21 continuing the effort irrespective of
1:19:25 Praise or this praise and irrespective
1:19:29 of maybe the foreseeable unforeseeable
1:19:33 uh obstacles or Consequences right
1:19:38 um now obviously there is an element of
1:19:41 not being foolhadi and using hikmah
1:19:44 doing the right thing in the right way
1:19:46 saying the right thing in the right way
1:19:48 at the right time but irrespective of
1:19:51 those and considering those things
1:19:53 courage would be saying what you have to
1:19:55 say and doing what you have to do
1:19:57 irrespective of foreseeable
1:19:58 unforeseeable obstacles or Consequences
1:20:00 correct
1:20:01 absolutely she's saying what happens
1:20:04 how do we develop so so critical yes
1:20:09 um a lot of times people don't say what
1:20:11 needs to be said because they're looking
1:20:12 at the audience
1:20:14 you know you might be the Masjid and you
1:20:17 got a bunch of people who are uh who got
1:20:20 businesses dealing in Haram uh but you
1:20:23 don't want to say anything about that
1:20:24 because they are the guys paying your
1:20:26 salary
1:20:27 you know some of their some of them are
1:20:29 committee members and board members and
1:20:30 whatnot so you don't want to say that
1:20:32 interest-based earnings are Haram uh
1:20:35 selling cigarettes and uh you know uh
1:20:39 beer and and whatnot lottery tickets and
1:20:42 and pornographic vaccines uh in your
1:20:45 7-Eleven or in your convenience store uh
1:20:49 all of this is Haram
1:20:50 uh you know you you don't want to say
1:20:52 that because you don't want to offend
1:20:54 them
1:20:55 that takes courage there's no physical
1:20:57 nobody's going to beat you
1:21:00 you probably will not even lose your job
1:21:01 Frankly Speaking that there's more of
1:21:03 fear than than anything else but okay so
1:21:05 you lose your job but then who is your
1:21:07 razak
1:21:09 is it Allah or is it these people
1:21:14 so if that takes courage that that is
1:21:16 very important to do that that's why I
1:21:18 sometimes tell people I mean when I
1:21:20 teach uh when I do courses on doing the
1:21:22 jummah khudba which you know we you know
1:21:25 do that I say to people very clearly if
1:21:27 you are afraid to speak the truth on the
1:21:30 member
1:21:32 don't climb the member
1:21:34 do not stand with me that member is the
1:21:37 member of rasulullah it's not yours
1:21:41 when you are standing on the member you
1:21:43 are standing in the possession in the
1:21:44 position of rasulullah
1:21:49 so don't violate that position don't
1:21:51 violate the uh uh the the the sanctity
1:21:55 of that position
1:21:56 I can understand that there may be a
1:21:59 reason why you cannot say what needs to
1:22:01 be said because you fear physical danger
1:22:04 and so on and so forth if you say what
1:22:06 needs to be said maybe you'll be all up
1:22:08 to jail or something don't say it
1:22:10 I'm I'm not suggesting to you that you
1:22:12 know you must say no don't say it
1:22:14 praying
1:22:16 is not fun
1:22:18 so don't do that
1:22:23 but if you are standing on the member
1:22:26 then say what needs to be said
1:22:30 that is the that's the my definition of
1:22:32 courage how do we develop courage
1:22:37 by focusing
1:22:38 Allah by focusing on Allah we say Allah
1:22:42 what does it mean
1:22:45 the simplest answer to that is that
1:22:47 focus on Allah
1:22:50 I am going to meet Allah
1:22:53 no matter what
1:22:55 the greatest cover
1:22:57 and the most courageous person
1:23:00 are both going to meet Allah
1:23:06 no one can benefit and no one can harm
1:23:08 except Allah
1:23:10 then what what are we afraid of
1:23:14 it yeah that is the key the key is is
1:23:17 that in the heart all of these are words
1:23:20 very easy
1:23:22 foreign
1:23:36 okay so I was the higher CEO for just
1:23:40 under three years alhamdulillah you know
1:23:43 we increased uh International operations
1:23:45 operations by I think over a thousand
1:23:48 percent and the funds by over 500 then I
1:23:51 moved over to over to sapiens which our
1:23:54 vision is a world that receives The
1:23:56 Message of Islam and where Muslims can
1:23:58 share and defend the faith academically
1:24:00 intellectually and our strategic focus
1:24:02 is that we are focused on doing the
1:24:05 tower in other words in our remit which
1:24:07 is sharing and defending Islam
1:24:08 academically and intellectually and
1:24:10 empowering others to do so as well
1:24:12 in the context of this leadership
1:24:14 position I have
1:24:17 and I'm asking this question for General
1:24:19 answer and a specific answer because I I
1:24:21 don't want you to think that you're just
1:24:22 talking to me that you're talking to
1:24:23 everybody
1:24:24 in this context what would be key pieces
1:24:28 of advice
1:24:29 that someone like myself
1:24:33 and
1:24:34 or in similar positions need to take
1:24:38 very seriously
1:24:40 in order for us to have success in the
1:24:42 doubt yes you've mentioned many things
1:24:44 already about Tesco turnoffs you've
1:24:46 mentioned about following the process
1:24:47 you mentioned about having a lot in mind
1:24:49 you mentioned about you know not chasing
1:24:51 the numbers but you know actually doing
1:24:53 the right thing and focusing on Law and
1:24:55 the numbers will come and so on and so
1:24:57 forth
1:24:59 but from a from from adding to that what
1:25:03 would you advise someone like myself
1:25:07 and I'm actually asking the question
1:25:08 quite seriously because I I wanna I I
1:25:11 need advice I do need advice I tell you
1:25:14 something Chad
1:25:16 um a few days ago I went through
1:25:19 very I don't know if I don't know what
1:25:22 to call it kind of painful experience
1:25:25 like maybe it was like I had a tornado
1:25:28 in my mind and a mountain on my back
1:25:32 and um
1:25:35 that's a tough experience to have
1:25:38 and I think you know in leadership
1:25:41 positions or these type of positions
1:25:44 if someone's not in that type of pain
1:25:46 and I think maybe something is wrong
1:25:48 because it is quite heavy
1:25:52 um and I didn't know how to deal with it
1:25:55 from the perspective of how do I unpack
1:25:58 all of these internal emotions and and
1:26:00 this weight
1:26:01 and I remember prior to that or during
1:26:04 that process a person who is a very very
1:26:08 good brother
1:26:09 he was driving and I was basically
1:26:12 exclaiming I was like saying oh I was
1:26:15 like really perturbed and worried about
1:26:17 the state of the tower sector I was
1:26:20 really worried about maybe things like
1:26:22 conflicts of interest or too much egoism
1:26:24 and individualism and so on and so forth
1:26:26 and I was lost in that
1:26:28 now usually I'm quite a you know mature
1:26:31 stable guy generally speaking but there
1:26:32 is a lot of emotions behind the scenes
1:26:34 and as I was expressing this he
1:26:36 mentioned something very profound he
1:26:38 basically said
1:26:41 you've got yourself to worry about and
1:26:43 he doesn't know very good English right
1:26:44 he said you've got your side you've got
1:26:46 yourself to worry about
1:26:49 and that just really reframed everything
1:26:51 he made me realize that in reality you
1:26:54 are your greatest enemy the enemy is the
1:26:57 greatest enemy from the point of view of
1:26:58 your ego
1:27:00 and you know you just need to do the
1:27:02 right thing have a class focus on your
1:27:05 sins
1:27:06 because everything that we see around us
1:27:08 could be just a manifestation of our
1:27:10 disconnection with with Allah
1:27:13 now that was my state
1:27:16 for good or bad reasons everything is
1:27:19 higher and you know that happens
1:27:21 sometimes and I think that's a natural
1:27:22 consequence of being in certain
1:27:24 positions
1:27:25 advise me
1:27:27 talk to me talk to the ummah
1:27:30 yeah
1:27:32 let me give you a very simple uh way of
1:27:34 looking at this and it probably applies
1:27:36 to not just our sector or the dawat but
1:27:40 to practically everyone and that is the
1:27:43 the oral statement
1:27:46 sharpen your ax or sharpen your saw
1:27:49 right
1:27:51 um
1:27:52 remember the person sharpening the saw
1:27:55 or sharpening the ax
1:27:57 that is not his goal
1:28:00 if you ask him
1:28:02 what's your goal he won't say to sharpen
1:28:04 the song
1:28:06 but unless he sharpens the saw
1:28:09 his goal will never be achieved
1:28:14 right so he has to forget the goal
1:28:17 and spend time sharpening the zone
1:28:20 and then when he gets on with now sawing
1:28:22 the word or cutting those uh I hate to
1:28:24 use terms like cutting trees and so on
1:28:26 because you know from a different angle
1:28:28 but purely as an example I'm saying
1:28:30 unless the Japanese saw
1:28:34 and you can take this and apply it to
1:28:36 practically anything else in the world
1:28:38 and say that unless you focus on that
1:28:41 thing
1:28:42 the ultimate goal won't be achieved but
1:28:45 if you ask the person is this your goal
1:28:46 no it's not my goal
1:28:48 and which person is going to say my goal
1:28:50 is to sharpen the doors
1:28:51 my goal is to saw that wood
1:28:55 but it I know that it is not going to
1:28:57 happen unless I sharpen the saw
1:29:02 so my goal is to communicate Islam in a
1:29:05 powerful persuasive way to the other
1:29:09 person
1:29:10 how is that going to happen when I focus
1:29:12 on myself
1:29:14 I focus on my myself internally I also
1:29:18 focus on my communication skills I focus
1:29:21 on how I present something
1:29:24 I take feedback I take this I I take a
1:29:27 slow I take correction
1:29:29 and I continuously improve my way of
1:29:33 doing things
1:29:36 right so if you say is your goal to uh
1:29:41 do all of this but no my goal is to
1:29:43 convince people
1:29:45 but I know that unless I present I do
1:29:48 all of this stuff
1:29:50 that goal will not be achieved
1:29:53 foreign
1:29:57 foreign
1:30:05 but unless you do that unless you charge
1:30:07 your
1:30:08 phone
1:30:09 you can't talk
1:30:11 it's gonna the battery will die
1:30:18 so that's the way to differentiate it
1:30:19 now if you if you are charging the phone
1:30:21 if you are sharpening the accent doesn't
1:30:23 mean you forgot about your goal no no I
1:30:24 haven't I'm really focused on my goal
1:30:26 that's why I'm doing this
1:30:28 so basically I'm going to bring it
1:30:31 personal to myself the kind of situation
1:30:33 that I found myself in maybe a day or a
1:30:35 couple of days ago the key advice here
1:30:38 would be
1:30:40 sharpen your spiritual Acts connect with
1:30:44 Allah find out what your shortcomings
1:30:46 are find out what your sins are find out
1:30:49 how you're relating and behaving fix
1:30:51 your frame of reference your mindset are
1:30:54 you seeking Allah's help before you seek
1:30:56 other people's help do you really have
1:30:58 tawakan are you enrolling people in your
1:31:01 behavior are you being that which you
1:31:03 want other people to become
1:31:05 is that what you're trying to say chef
1:31:07 yeah
1:31:08 you know in one in one small piece
1:31:12 at the end of the longest ayat in the
1:31:15 Quran
1:31:20 at the bottom of that page 15th line
1:31:23 Allah said
1:31:28 he said of Allah and Allah will teach
1:31:31 you
1:31:33 Savannah
1:31:35 this is what I need to deliver in myself
1:31:38 which is am I concerned about Allah's
1:31:42 pleasure
1:31:46 is fear of the displeasure of Allah fear
1:31:51 of displeasing the one I love the most
1:31:54 because Allah said who are the Believers
1:31:57 he isn't the Believers are those who
1:31:59 love Allah
1:32:03 they'll not only love Allah they love
1:32:06 Allah more than anything and anyone else
1:32:08 so I
1:32:11 am concerned and my one and only and
1:32:15 fundamental concern is is Allah please
1:32:16 with me
1:32:18 analyzing if you keep that concern then
1:32:21 Allah will teach you
1:32:23 Allah will teach you what you need to
1:32:25 say Allah will teach you what you have
1:32:26 to do
1:32:29 and that's the reason why you know Allah
1:32:31 said to somebody one day allegorically
1:32:34 speaking as well I I agree with him and
1:32:36 I'm sure you have some experiences like
1:32:38 this he said why is it difficult to
1:32:41 believe in wahi
1:32:43 he said even I get it
1:32:46 no he's not claiming to be a prophet
1:32:48 he's not saying I'm waiting as in gibral
1:32:50 talking to me but he's saying that there
1:32:53 are times in my life when I know that I
1:32:55 am saying something that I had never
1:32:57 thought about before hmm
1:32:59 it happened to me
1:33:01 several instances several instances in
1:33:04 my life where literally I felt uh like
1:33:07 an out of body experience I am watching
1:33:09 myself saying things and I I know I
1:33:12 don't know this
1:33:13 I never thought of this how am I saying
1:33:16 this where did it come from this is
1:33:19 ilham this is ilham
1:33:21 I mean or for example
1:33:24 I want to I'm writing a hotba or I want
1:33:27 to write a hotba and that morning I
1:33:30 opened my email and there is this person
1:33:33 not even a Muslim who literally sent me
1:33:36 practically
1:33:39 yeah he's talking about whatever I want
1:33:41 to talk about he's putting in no this is
1:33:48 but the important thing I don't want to
1:33:50 give the impression here that I'm a
1:33:51 great therefore it's happening to me no
1:33:53 it's just please I mean I always tell
1:33:56 myself may Allah protect me from myself
1:33:58 I mean we really must think and say that
1:34:02 you know we do things and we must do
1:34:04 things in a way
1:34:05 we have that primary concern is Allah
1:34:07 pleased with this
1:34:09 and when we despite all this we make
1:34:11 mistakes make a step one
1:34:14 yes
1:34:15 if you make mistakes we should seek
1:34:17 repent to Allah and turn back to Allah
1:34:20 okay that is that's reassuring it's it's
1:34:23 reaffirming as well so
1:34:27 tell me a story there's a story you told
1:34:29 me once and I almost I think I forgot
1:34:32 about it it was about this slave this
1:34:34 black slave I think
1:34:37 and I want you to tell me this story
1:34:38 this is one of the most amazing Stories
1:34:40 I have heard from you and I think people
1:34:42 who don't know this story should know
1:34:44 this story it is an awesome story and I
1:34:47 think it's summarizes everything that
1:34:49 we've said today in some in some way
1:34:51 so Chef um
1:34:54 praying for him that one yes yes that
1:34:57 one oh okay this is a true story of
1:34:59 Abdullah in Mubarak uh
1:35:03 he said that he was in Makkah it was a
1:35:06 it was a very very dry drought and you
1:35:08 know terrible
1:35:10 sort of situation without water and in
1:35:14 the Haram they prayed uh
1:35:19 and Abdullah said I also prayed there
1:35:23 and nothing happened
1:35:25 then everyone disappeared dispersed uh
1:35:29 Abdullah said I was just sitting there
1:35:32 with my back to you know one of The
1:35:34 Columns of the wall
1:35:40 young man a black African guy in a very
1:35:46 sort of tattered clothes
1:35:48 uh standing near the wall
1:35:50 and he raised his hands and he didn't
1:35:52 know Abdullah was watching him so he
1:35:54 raised his hands and he said yeah Allah
1:35:58 people are suffering
1:36:00 they made Dua nothing happened
1:36:07 he said Center in because I am asking
1:36:10 right
1:36:12 and Abdullah says that
1:36:15 Cloud came and it rained
1:36:18 now this boy left
1:36:21 and Abdullah said I followed him and I
1:36:24 marked the house that he entered
1:36:27 that house was the house of a slave
1:36:29 trader
1:36:31 so Abdullah said next day I went to the
1:36:34 house and uh knocked on the door the man
1:36:37 opened the door and he saw him was a
1:36:39 very famous
1:36:40 they all knew him so he was very happy
1:36:43 he said you came to my house and so on
1:36:52 these are two great Scholars they were
1:36:54 in together Makkah so Abdullah says that
1:36:57 I said to the man I am I need a servant
1:37:01 so which I got you see him called the
1:37:06 people and and a whole long line of
1:37:09 you know of slaves he lined them up and
1:37:12 he said you know take your pick whoever
1:37:13 you want
1:37:18 somebody else
1:37:21 he said no he said no no you have this
1:37:22 somebody else
1:37:24 the man said there is one boy who is
1:37:26 kind of sickly and weak and he's no good
1:37:29 he can't really work out work hard he's
1:37:31 of news to you uh
1:37:33 he said I want to see that one
1:37:36 so they called him
1:37:38 and it was the same guy
1:37:41 so Abdullah said this is the one I want
1:37:45 and a slave trader said no please you
1:37:47 know this guy is good for me he's Baraka
1:37:48 in my house said no no I I want this guy
1:37:52 so now the slave trader could not refuse
1:37:54 him because there's this great Sheikh
1:37:56 and uh so he said okay
1:38:00 bought this boy
1:38:02 and now they are walking on the way
1:38:06 to his house
1:38:09 as they were going this boy was carrying
1:38:12 something it slipped from his hand and
1:38:14 fell down and Abdullah
1:38:17 you know so literally sort of he ran for
1:38:20 this thing and he picked it up and he
1:38:21 gave it
1:38:22 this voice said to him my master this is
1:38:25 very inappropriate I am your slave
1:38:28 uh you are picking up my things
1:38:31 said to him you are not my slave I have
1:38:35 freed you
1:38:36 uh I am your Hadith
1:38:39 he said I
1:38:41 took you from there not because I want
1:38:44 you to serve me but because I want to
1:38:46 serve you
1:38:49 this boy stopped
1:38:51 and he said what did you see
1:38:59 you saw something
1:39:03 you saw something that's why you're
1:39:04 saying this what did you see
1:39:06 you have to tell me what did you see
1:39:10 so when he pushed him and pushed him
1:39:12 he said to him this is what happened
1:39:15 yesterday we were in the Haram and so on
1:39:18 and I saw you standing there and I saw
1:39:20 you making Dua and I saw Allah
1:39:22 and I'm taking you because I were going
1:39:25 to my house
1:39:26 and you know you want your company
1:39:30 that's it you're not there for a servant
1:39:34 as a servant you're not there to serve
1:39:36 us we I want to serve you you are my
1:39:38 master I am not your master
1:39:41 this boy kept silent they continued to
1:39:44 walk
1:39:45 and then they came to a place where
1:39:47 there was a small Masjid by the side of
1:39:49 the road
1:39:51 this boy said to him
1:39:52 he said my master can you permit me to
1:39:55 pray
1:39:58 she said yes of course please go
1:40:01 subscribe
1:40:05 foreign
1:40:38 uh make me more than a storyteller
1:40:42 you know we tell these stories well
1:40:45 may Allah make me the one that the story
1:40:47 does not become against me inshallah
1:40:51 for the story is exactly for your
1:40:53 insights now I would like to request
1:40:55 that you come again in the near future
1:40:57 because there's so much more to unpack
1:40:59 and we could zoom in on specific topics
1:41:02 like Vision strategy organizational
1:41:05 structure you have
1:41:06 a wealth of Knowledge from a kind of
1:41:09 operational Strategic Management point
1:41:11 of view and all of these insights would
1:41:13 be very valuable at least in some form
1:41:16 for audiences that they could be touch
1:41:18 moved and inspired so they could
1:41:20 actually get the best out of themselves
1:41:22 and best out of the organizations and
1:41:23 their work so and I I really really want
1:41:26 you back on on these issues insha Allah
1:41:29 and you know
1:41:31 it's always a pleasure to meet you yeah
1:41:34 and every time
1:41:35 it's been too long I mean I mean every
1:41:38 time we speak there's always emotions
1:41:40 and tears so check for me this is for
1:41:43 coming to you Sapient voices and we're
1:41:44 definitely going to see you again and um
1:41:47 I just want to say may Allah Grant you
1:41:50 and your loved ones and your family the
1:41:53 best in this life and the best in the
1:41:55 and may Allah
1:41:57 you and your loved ones with his
1:42:00 boundless love and mercy okay and I mean
1:42:03 that from the bottom of my heart
1:42:03 melodies
1:42:11 foreign
1:42:16 [Music]