Reacting to Atheist 'Academic' Logic (2021-09-19) ​

0:00:00 [Music]
0:00:05 go to kuala lude app inshallah the app
0:00:07 tracks versus pages and time spent
0:00:10 reading and the verses to pages function
0:00:12 takes you from reading a few verses a
0:00:14 day to a few pages a day this project is
0:00:17 for the real enthusiasts if there's
0:00:19 enough of us out there this will become
0:00:21 the future of quran apps and support the
0:00:24 project if you can inshaallah may allah
0:00:26 bless all of you jazakallahu
0:00:31 how are you guys doing i've recently
0:00:32 stumbled across a video
0:00:34 which is entitled why is there something
0:00:37 rather than nothing
0:00:39 this question of course is one of the
0:00:40 most pervasive ones
0:00:42 and one of the most deep ones and one of
0:00:43 those ultimate ones to use a carl
0:00:46 popparian term
0:00:48 that plagues the human species so i want
0:00:50 to listen to what this person say and
0:00:52 see
0:00:53 i think he's coming from an atheist
0:00:54 background of course
0:00:55 how we can comment on some of his
0:00:57 conclusions
0:01:02 all right so there's a kid out with his
0:01:03 dad one day in the forest and the kid
0:01:05 says why the leaves green
0:01:07 and his dad who's a botanist or a tree
0:01:09 surgeon or something says well because
0:01:11 of chlorophyll chlorophyll is green and
0:01:13 leaves have chlorophyll in them and the
0:01:15 kid says
0:01:16 ah-ha and they walk a little more and
0:01:18 the kid says but why is chlorophyll
0:01:20 green the father says
0:01:22 well light bounces off things
0:01:24 differently sometimes and if chlorophyll
0:01:26 is a certain density blah blah or
0:01:27 something so it's green and the kid says
0:01:30 okay
0:01:31 and they walk a bit more and the kid
0:01:32 says but why does light work like that
0:01:34 then and the dad says jesus christ
0:01:36 because that's how physics works
0:01:38 and the kid says but why does physics
0:01:40 work like that and the dad says because
0:01:42 that's how the universe was set up 13
0:01:44 billion years ago when time and space
0:01:45 began all right aristotle leave it alone
0:01:47 already here have a sandwich shut up and
0:01:49 the kid eats his sandwich and he looks
0:01:50 about a bit and they walk a bit more and
0:01:52 the sun's going down and heading back to
0:01:54 the car and the kid says then why did
0:01:55 time and space begin
0:01:57 and that is a pretty good question
0:01:59 everything has a beginning however weird
0:02:01 or wonderful there weren't always
0:02:03 planets or stars or galaxies everything
0:02:04 had to come from something didn't it
0:02:07 well sure it does 13 billion years ago
0:02:09 we're told the universe just appeared
0:02:11 and it was very simple just atoms and
0:02:13 the molecules and chemistry and stars
0:02:14 and then planets and then ecosystems and
0:02:16 then curious sounds and irritated
0:02:18 fathers quite a bit later but how did it
0:02:20 all start there's two answers here
0:02:23 aren't there see everything either came
0:02:25 out of nothing for no reason at all or
0:02:27 everything has always been around well
0:02:29 forever
0:02:30 and both options are
0:02:32 absolutely mental and one of them has to
0:02:34 be true that's a false dichotomy
0:02:37 it's not the case
0:02:39 that either everything came from nothing
0:02:42 or
0:02:43 that everything was just there
0:02:46 there is of course
0:02:49 another option
0:02:50 which you have
0:02:52 quietly
0:02:54 and cheekily
0:02:56 circumnavigated haven't you
0:02:59 which is that for every
0:03:02 dependent thing composed of
0:03:05 parts there is a
0:03:07 composer
0:03:08 putting out the way
0:03:10 everything
0:03:12 made of pieces
0:03:14 everything made of pieces
0:03:16 is dependent the universe is made of
0:03:19 pieces and therefore the universe
0:03:21 is dependent
0:03:23 of course if it's dependent it can
0:03:25 either be dependent on something which
0:03:26 is dependent or dependent on something
0:03:28 which is independent
0:03:30 if it's dependent on something which is
0:03:32 independent
0:03:33 then the job has been done in fact
0:03:35 we have been able to establish the
0:03:37 existence of an independent entity
0:03:40 through which all other entities depend
0:03:42 on
0:03:44 and
0:03:45 if it's dependent on something which is
0:03:46 dependent then you have a series of
0:03:48 dependent things and such a series will
0:03:51 be made up of its constituent parts
0:03:54 and everything made up of constituent
0:03:55 parts is composed
0:03:57 and a series of such multiverses if you
0:03:59 want to put in that language
0:04:01 would be compose
0:04:04 would be made up of parts and therefore
0:04:06 such a series would be composed
0:04:08 so
0:04:09 it's incontrovertible actually
0:04:12 it's inescapable my friend
0:04:15 instead of postulating something which
0:04:17 is actually nonsensical which is that
0:04:20 the
0:04:21 universe came from nothing
0:04:23 something which even the ancients didn't
0:04:26 dare utter from their mouths
0:04:29 in the ancient period and hellistic
0:04:30 period and up until the enlightenment
0:04:32 period
0:04:33 you have
0:04:35 postulated it
0:04:38 you can't prove that on a priori or a
0:04:40 poster or a grounds you can't
0:04:42 prove that cosmologically at all
0:04:45 in fact it's impossible mathematically
0:04:46 so why even mention it as an option
0:04:50 in fact the quran
0:04:52 the book that you should read i would
0:04:54 say
0:04:55 once you've finished eating the pot
0:04:56 noodle
0:04:58 dinner that you have
0:04:59 maybe after a session
0:05:01 in the cellar or you know
0:05:05 watching some illicit stuff or whatever
0:05:06 it is that
0:05:08 you know atheists dudes who quite
0:05:09 frankly or people that don't believe in
0:05:11 god
0:05:12 quite frankly people that do believe in
0:05:14 god as well
0:05:16 you know after you've done what you need
0:05:18 to do and you're maybe understanding
0:05:20 then start contemplating this question
0:05:23 properly why is there something rather
0:05:26 than nothing
0:05:27 it's not that
0:05:29 oh it's it could be from nothing and
0:05:31 that's actually a possibility that's an
0:05:33 impossibility
0:05:34 and if you're saying that well the
0:05:36 universe was always here even that
0:05:38 postulation itself doesn't solve the
0:05:40 problem
0:05:41 because was it here inexplicably
0:05:45 did it give preponderance to itself
0:05:48 um indeed one could say that even if
0:05:50 that were the case and it was here
0:05:52 inexplicably inexplicably
0:05:55 what was it dependent on
0:05:56 once again the question that will plague
0:05:58 you
0:06:00 was it dependent or independent
0:06:02 think about it
0:06:04 and if it was dependent was it dependent
0:06:06 on something that was dependent or was
0:06:07 it dependent on something that was
0:06:08 independent if it was independent if
0:06:10 it's dependent on something that's
0:06:11 independent the job is done then there's
0:06:12 something that's independent if it's
0:06:14 dependent on something which is
0:06:15 dependent then we make the same argument
0:06:17 as we have before so your dichotomy your
0:06:19 foster economy may work on your charms
0:06:22 and friends but it will not work on me
0:06:26 other answers that will not win the cash
0:06:27 prize include one god did it
0:06:30 well well it won't win the cash prize
0:06:32 but i tell you what won't win the cash
0:06:34 prize okay
0:06:36 is your explanation
0:06:38 that nothing which is defined as the
0:06:40 absence of something
0:06:41 can in any way shape or form even
0:06:44 conceivably i'm not saying that you've
0:06:46 said
0:06:46 that it can but it conceivably bring
0:06:48 about something
0:06:50 you think that's gonna win the cash
0:06:51 prize so you can go you get yourself
0:06:52 another pot noodle
0:06:54 hmm
0:06:55 and eat that pot noodle
0:06:57 two i don't care yes you do the stuffing
0:06:59 made of is 13 billion years old too you
0:07:01 should give a damn or three maybe we're
0:07:03 just too stupid to work it out which is
0:07:05 what everyone says shortly before
0:07:06 someone works something out so
0:07:08 everything came from nothing or
0:07:10 everything has always been around well
0:07:12 which one makes more sense
0:07:14 okay then let's say everything came from
0:07:15 nothing so there's nothing and for no
0:07:17 reason at all the universe just well
0:07:20 appeared well weird stuff happens in the
0:07:22 world all the time nothing itself or
0:07:24 non-existence
0:07:26 can only be understood
0:07:29 in reference to existence
0:07:32 if i were to ask you a question and say
0:07:34 to you
0:07:34 imagine non-existence
0:07:36 what is this nothing you talk about
0:07:38 just imagine it what are you going to
0:07:40 imagine what an empty
0:07:42 space for you to imagine an empty empty
0:07:45 space
0:07:46 then you will have to make reference to
0:07:48 the idea of space
0:07:51 thus i may say nothing or non-existence
0:07:55 is unintelligible without reference
0:07:58 to something
0:08:00 just as zero is unintended
0:08:02 unintelligible the number zero
0:08:04 is unintelligible
0:08:06 without clear reference to natural
0:08:08 numbers
0:08:09 and negative numbers so what is this
0:08:12 nothing you speak of apparently no
0:08:14 reason why can't the universe have just
0:08:15 come around like that too
0:08:17 well it's different see when you get a
0:08:19 freak tax rebate or someone crashes into
0:08:21 you at a junction it might seem random
0:08:23 but there is a cause it's just so
0:08:25 complicated that you can't fathom it one
0:08:26 thing follows another and another and
0:08:28 another and another and another and then
0:08:30 whatever happens happens so what does
0:08:32 that have to do with everything coming
0:08:33 from nothing well if there's nothing
0:08:36 there's nothing nothing can't cause
0:08:38 anything everything in the world that
0:08:39 happens is because of atoms bumping into
0:08:41 other atoms well actually they never
0:08:43 touch but that's a story for another
0:08:44 time and fields interacting with other
0:08:46 fields nothing doesn't have atoms or
0:08:48 feels it's nothing
0:08:50 so what then there's black and more
0:08:52 black not even black actually just
0:08:54 nothing and then for no reason at all
0:08:55 there's something you see there you have
0:08:57 it you said it yourself
0:08:58 not not even black anything you said
0:09:00 black and then you realize oh black is
0:09:02 something not even black anything
0:09:04 nothing okay
0:09:05 what is nothing
0:09:06 once again you have nothing to reference
0:09:08 it ironically you know
0:09:11 whenever you want to speak of nothing
0:09:12 you have to reference it
0:09:15 or you have to make reference to
0:09:16 something in existence what is this
0:09:18 nothing you speak of
0:09:20 final reason just pop and now comes the
0:09:22 universe
0:09:23 but that's mad nothing can be without a
0:09:25 cause well here are some fun ideas
0:09:26 though
0:09:28 time is drunk what if time can double
0:09:30 back on itself what if the universe was
0:09:32 caused from its own future there's still
0:09:34 a cause there's still an effect it's
0:09:36 just that the bang came first and then
0:09:38 the cause caused it much later maybe at
0:09:40 the end of time
0:09:42 but that's mental nothing could go
0:09:43 backwards in time can it if you could
0:09:45 kill your own grandfather paradoxes etc
0:09:47 etc etc
0:09:49 maybe modern physics might allow for it
0:09:52 the universe might not care about time
0:09:53 going backwards as long as everything
0:09:54 matches up if someone leaves a winning
0:09:56 lottery ticket on your doorstep and you
0:09:58 win the lottery go back in time and
0:09:59 leave it on your own doorstep to do it
0:10:01 again what's wrong with that as long as
0:10:03 you don't change anything everything is
0:10:04 conserved all the eyes are dotted he's
0:10:06 across no paradoxes no problem
0:10:10 he's talking about something called
0:10:11 retro causality now this can be rejected
0:10:14 on a priori grounds meaning
0:10:17 that the logical form that this would
0:10:19 necessitate would necessitate a
0:10:20 contradiction
0:10:22 for example take a b and c as
0:10:25 a linear
0:10:27 um sequence of some sorts
0:10:29 a causes b b equals a c and c equals a
0:10:33 c would be effectively caused by a if
0:10:35 this were the case and so c would be the
0:10:38 cause of itself
0:10:40 or a would be the cause by itself so
0:10:42 causes would be their own cause and
0:10:44 effects will be their own effect which
0:10:46 is exactly logically impossible
0:10:49 on l1 if you're on a propositional logic
0:10:52 and on s5 or s4 which is modal logic
0:10:55 it's something which is on a priori
0:10:58 grounds to be rejected now i want to say
0:11:01 something
0:11:02 the fact that you've made this claim in
0:11:05 one of itself
0:11:06 shows me the extent to which you are
0:11:09 running away from the inescapable
0:11:10 conclusion the quran itself
0:11:13 states
0:11:17 where they created from themselves
0:11:19 were they created from nothing or
0:11:21 whether they themselves
0:11:23 created of themselves
0:11:25 so you're trying your best you've
0:11:27 literally tried to exhaust these options
0:11:30 these two options which are impossible
0:11:31 options which the quran states
0:11:33 you've tried your best to exhaust these
0:11:35 options only to be to hit a brick wall
0:11:38 why don't you start considering the real
0:11:42 logical options
0:11:44 you couldn't have been created from
0:11:45 nothing that's ridiculous and you
0:11:47 probably recognized that yourself and
0:11:49 you couldn't create yourself
0:11:52 not only because
0:11:54 of causality but because of dependence
0:11:56 we talked about causality already
0:11:58 causality is defined as something which
0:12:00 brings rise to phenomena but dependence
0:12:02 is different to causality because
0:12:04 dependence is something which relies
0:12:05 upon something else
0:12:07 now it's conceivable that something can
0:12:09 cause something but not that thing does
0:12:11 not depend upon it if i have a son and
0:12:13 he has a son
0:12:14 my grandson will be caused by me
0:12:17 yes but he doesn't depend on me for
0:12:19 continued existence now it would be
0:12:21 absurd even if you wanted to
0:12:24 argue for retro causality of the
0:12:26 creation of the universe it's absurd to
0:12:29 us
0:12:29 to estimate that there is a continued
0:12:33 reliance of the universe on itself
0:12:35 unless you want to say that the universe
0:12:37 is independent and if you say that then
0:12:39 you've come away from atheism you've
0:12:41 left the pale of atheism my friend and
0:12:43 then you have become a deist but i will
0:12:46 say to you arguing reductio that in fact
0:12:49 that's impossible because the universe
0:12:50 is composed of parts and we said
0:12:52 anything compose a parts is dependent
0:12:54 and the universe is composed of parts
0:12:55 therefore the universe is dependent but
0:12:56 what is it dependent on is it depend
0:12:58 upon something that's dependent or
0:12:59 something that's independent it would
0:13:00 have to be dependent upon something
0:13:02 that's independent because if it's
0:13:03 dependent on something that's dependent
0:13:04 then there'll be a series of dependent
0:13:05 things if you want to say ad infinitum
0:13:07 say so but then that series itself will
0:13:09 be composed of parts and everything
0:13:10 compose the past is dependent and
0:13:12 therefore the multiverse is in the is
0:13:14 dependent it is composed of parts and
0:13:16 therefore the universe is dependent
0:13:18 therefore you really have to uh and so
0:13:20 do the atheist community step up their
0:13:23 game this is not good enough of all due
0:13:25 respect this honestly infuriates me that
0:13:28 someone is willing to sacrifice their
0:13:29 own logical
0:13:31 uh ability yeah they were they're able
0:13:34 to affront their own
0:13:35 they're able to embarrass their own
0:13:37 sense of
0:13:39 decency and common sense by making
0:13:41 arguments like this why don't you just
0:13:43 wake up
0:13:44 yeah and think properly i want to say to
0:13:46 you honestly the earth is coming enough
0:13:48 is enough
0:13:50 your day is done
0:13:51 the new atheist uh
0:13:54 vogue the the new atheist wave has has
0:13:57 now
0:13:58 subsided we must say
0:14:00 think properly i honestly think properly
0:14:02 enough is enough
0:14:03 it's not that you were created from
0:14:05 nothing as i've said
0:14:07 and it's not that you yourself are the
0:14:09 creators of yourself it's not that the
0:14:10 universe was created from nothing and
0:14:11 it's not that the universe universe
0:14:13 itself was a creator of itself these two
0:14:14 things are impossibilities
0:14:16 think about the other option and i know
0:14:18 what you know
0:14:19 and i know that you know what the other
0:14:20 option is what's up
0:14:22 [Music]
0:14:33 you