Londoniyyah - Part 19 - Proof of Prophethood / 2 (2022-03-10) ​

0:00:10 welcome to another episode another
0:00:12 session of a londoner today we're going
0:00:14 to continue with the bet or the
0:00:18 affirming of the
0:00:21 prophethood and also proving how islam
0:00:24 is true we already covered just to
0:00:26 remind you
0:00:28 arguments for god's existence we've
0:00:30 already covered
0:00:31 uh the contingency argument uh we
0:00:33 covered some aspects of the cosmological
0:00:36 argument
0:00:37 and now we are talking about how to
0:00:40 establish the prophethood of prophet
0:00:41 muhammad
0:00:42 and how we know that the quran and the
0:00:45 sunnah in fact revelation so we'll start
0:00:47 in sha allah with the
0:00:49 or the reading of the the poem and then
0:00:51 we will continue
0:01:15 yeah so
0:01:16 the sheikh hasn't gone into much detail
0:01:19 because he expects the shadow or the
0:01:21 person who is making an explanation of
0:01:24 this particular part of the poem to go
0:01:26 into more detail just to remind you of
0:01:28 what we spoke about last time
0:01:30 um in the previous session we
0:01:32 differentiated between necessary and
0:01:34 sufficient conditions for revelation
0:01:37 we said
0:01:38 necessary conditions for revelation are
0:01:40 things which if they are not there
0:01:42 then it's doubtful if if any if if in
0:01:45 any way possible that revelation can be
0:01:47 from god from an all-knowing entity and
0:01:50 who remembers what kinds of things we
0:01:51 mentioned as necessary conditions
0:01:56 the first one you mentioned was that it
0:01:58 cannot have any contradictions
0:02:00 um
0:02:01 and the second one that we mentioned
0:02:03 was
0:02:04 that it has to be preserved
0:02:06 yes so these are two very
0:02:08 uh basic things which you expect from
0:02:10 anything that is that claims to be from
0:02:12 god why those two in particular
0:02:15 um so the first one that has no
0:02:17 contradictions um because if it was uh
0:02:20 from god who is you know all knowing uh
0:02:23 and you know he is has you know the
0:02:25 maximum uh maximal uh knowledge then
0:02:28 uh
0:02:29 for him to contradict himself within his
0:02:32 book then this uh indicates that it's
0:02:35 not coming from a being who is maximally
0:02:37 annoying
0:02:38 great great great answer but let's take
0:02:40 one step back um give me an example from
0:02:44 the sharia
0:02:46 of a necessary condition for something
0:02:48 and a sufficient condition for something
0:02:50 if you remember what i
0:02:52 was talking about last time
0:02:54 in
0:02:55 jewish prudence what's the necessary
0:02:56 condition yeah you mentioned uh marriage
0:02:59 yes um so a necessary condition for
0:03:01 marriage is that
0:03:03 um you know you have a woman present yes
0:03:05 right um which is different to a
0:03:07 sufficient condition in that you have uh
0:03:10 you know the pillars for marriage uh
0:03:11 things like maher
0:03:13 things like uh
0:03:15 two witnesses so these are difference
0:03:17 between the necessary condition and the
0:03:18 sufficient what's what's the major
0:03:21 point of difference in the two examples
0:03:23 you gave the woman being present in the
0:03:24 first place
0:03:25 what would be
0:03:27 what would be impossible if the woman
0:03:29 was not there
0:03:31 yeah it would be impossible for
0:03:33 the marriage to take place right there
0:03:35 would be no such it would it would make
0:03:36 it would render it impossible for a
0:03:38 marriage to take unless we obviously go
0:03:40 with new age definitions of marriage
0:03:42 which we're not we're not going with you
0:03:44 know marrying yourself or marrying a
0:03:46 male or something a man marrying another
0:03:47 man that is not allowed in islam so
0:03:50 we just gave this to kind of
0:03:52 give a
0:03:53 meaning to the idea of necessary and
0:03:55 sufficient condition
0:03:57 a necessary condition
0:03:59 means that it's impossible
0:04:00 for the thing to be fulfilled
0:04:02 if
0:04:04 such condition is not met whereas a
0:04:06 sufficient condition now
0:04:08 is different and what did we there's a
0:04:10 key word that we use someone else
0:04:13 beginning with the letter p
0:04:15 which
0:04:16 kind of reasoning we use in order to
0:04:18 establish sufficient conditions who
0:04:19 remembers
0:04:22 can you say a bit later probabilistic
0:04:25 yes probabilistic so can you give me an
0:04:26 example of in everyday life how we use
0:04:29 probabilistic reasoning
0:04:30 to guide us in our daily lives
0:04:35 when someone's at the train station yeah
0:04:37 they're sitting there and they're
0:04:38 expecting that you know when the board
0:04:40 says that train is going to come at 5 30
0:04:41 for example the train is going to come
0:04:42 at that time so them sitting there is an
0:04:45 affirmation of the fact that they are
0:04:47 sort of accepting the validity of that
0:04:49 probabilistic reasoning right right what
0:04:51 what's more would you say some other
0:04:53 examples that's good that's correct
0:04:54 let's give me some more examples of
0:04:57 things we do
0:04:58 which uh require kind of probabilistic
0:05:01 reasoning on a daily basis
0:05:03 the scientific enterprise as a whole is
0:05:05 probabilistic right since it's based on
0:05:07 the principle of induction yeah
0:05:09 absolutely yeah yeah
0:05:11 you can say that obviously there are
0:05:12 axioms and some
0:05:14 aspects of science
0:05:15 which we're not talking about and
0:05:17 observations which may be
0:05:20 not exactly inductive in the same way as
0:05:22 a sample would be but i think generally
0:05:25 speaking there is a large degree of
0:05:26 probability that is involved in
0:05:28 science and
0:05:30 especially nowadays there's something
0:05:32 called bayes theory i'm not sure if
0:05:33 you've heard of it it's in it's a
0:05:34 mathematical model
0:05:36 which uh
0:05:38 they use actually to predict and this is
0:05:40 more formal i guess but they use it to
0:05:42 predict like for example what your
0:05:44 chances are if you have cancer or
0:05:46 something like that
0:05:47 and the idea really is there's an
0:05:49 inbuilt
0:05:50 changing mechanism within it but the
0:05:52 in mathematics and i'm no expert in this
0:05:56 but there are different models of
0:05:57 probability so there's total probability
0:05:59 there's bayes theory and so on but what
0:06:01 i'm referring to
0:06:03 for our purposes is general epistemic
0:06:05 probability
0:06:06 like we make these assumptions on a
0:06:09 daily basis without having to bring out
0:06:11 a calculator or try and put it in a
0:06:14 in some kind of a theory in a model
0:06:16 so that's good
0:06:18 now we spoke about
0:06:20 so we talked about the distinction
0:06:22 between sufficient and necessary we gave
0:06:25 an example of a book which uh does not
0:06:27 fulfill the necessary conditions what
0:06:29 book did we mention and what kind of
0:06:31 problems did we find in that book
0:06:37 you said the old testament yeah yeah and
0:06:39 what kind of examples do we use if you
0:06:41 remember so as far as preservation is
0:06:43 concerned we mentioned that there's a
0:06:44 new consensus that
0:06:45 essentially we don't have the bible uh
0:06:48 or the old testament specifically
0:06:49 preserved
0:06:51 in the way that
0:06:52 sorry
0:06:53 in the way that initially was
0:06:56 and then as far as contradictions are
0:06:57 concerned we spoke about some of the uh
0:06:59 contradictions in in genesis
0:07:01 um to do with things like
0:07:03 as far as the chronology of creation and
0:07:05 that type of thing so yeah that's good
0:07:07 that's a good answer but just for next
0:07:08 time try and remember the specific
0:07:10 examples
0:07:11 for extra
0:07:13 for extra clarity
0:07:14 what like the herbies and the plants
0:07:16 right there right so okay good no no
0:07:18 you're right the herbs in the plant what
0:07:19 about it
0:07:21 that you've got at one point it says
0:07:23 that um there was plants and whatever
0:07:25 and then after that i think that was on
0:07:27 day two and then like day five or
0:07:29 something there's like there's no plans
0:07:30 there so in in
0:07:31 day three the herbage was created
0:07:34 and in genesis two verse five it says no
0:07:37 no plan has prong up yet
0:07:39 so this is more of a comparison between
0:07:41 chapter one and chapter two of genesis
0:07:42 but yeah make sure you get the examples
0:07:45 this is good you got all the points
0:07:46 right but
0:07:48 just because if you're having these
0:07:49 discussions with someone
0:07:51 if you get the examples wrong sometimes
0:07:53 that can undermine your point even
0:07:54 though the point is still valid
0:07:56 well that's good well done so far
0:07:58 everything is uh moving in the right
0:07:59 direction
0:08:01 now
0:08:02 we then spoke about the prophet
0:08:04 muhammed and everyone had their goal of
0:08:07 expressing
0:08:08 or speaking about the prophet muhammad
0:08:10 three minutes to talk about what kind of
0:08:13 a man he was and we we all shared
0:08:15 information about that i think it was a
0:08:17 very productive exercise in fact
0:08:20 um so i wanna i wanna pause there again
0:08:23 because we said we were going to use
0:08:25 everyone else's notes and i'll give you
0:08:27 guys five minutes
0:08:28 and it's exactly the same exercises
0:08:30 before which is i want you to tell me if
0:08:33 you were to be asked
0:08:35 to summarize the prophet sallam's life
0:08:37 in three minutes
0:08:38 what would you mention
0:08:40 okay so you can speak to the person next
0:08:42 to you or otherwise consult your notes
0:08:44 and in five minutes everyone's gonna
0:08:46 have three minutes to present each other
0:08:48 if someone were to ask you who is the
0:08:49 prophet muhammad right a non-muslim
0:08:51 person someone who doesn't know anything
0:08:52 about islam the question is what would
0:08:55 you summarize his life as how how would
0:08:56 you start i'll probably
0:08:57 start for a minute and then i'll think
0:08:59 of something this is this is why you're
0:09:00 here
0:09:02 this is what we need uh we need you to
0:09:04 practice this you know don't worry about
0:09:05 it we'll start with you inshallah uh
0:09:08 actually let's start with uh tara today
0:09:12 yeah i'm out bro
0:09:14 well let's let's see how you feel after
0:09:16 everyone is done yeah yeah i'll just
0:09:18 okay fine let's just see how you feel
0:09:20 right
0:09:20 gonna
0:09:22 three minutes time now
0:09:23 uh the the proofs of the prophethood of
0:09:26 muhammad sallam uh first of all his uh
0:09:30 his background and being an illiterate
0:09:33 so he couldn't have been influenced by
0:09:35 any other texts or any other ideas
0:09:38 philosophically or religiously
0:09:42 that were around at the time
0:09:44 second of all his his manners reputation
0:09:47 and etiquettes
0:09:49 prior to his prophethood
0:09:50 the way he conducted himself in in life
0:09:53 and in business
0:09:54 his reputation that he built up as a
0:09:56 completely trustworthy man
0:09:58 and somebody who was uh
0:10:00 trusted by
0:10:02 the people who were um
0:10:05 who were in elevated positions in
0:10:07 society and he would be a um
0:10:10 an arbitrator uh among them
0:10:13 uh and uh also the fact that
0:10:18 prior to his profited up until the end
0:10:19 of his life he lived the life of a
0:10:21 complete human being and was supremely
0:10:24 successful in politics religious matters
0:10:28 and as a military general
0:10:30 and
0:10:31 he also he made prophecies that came
0:10:34 true
0:10:35 which which were the prophecies of the
0:10:38 defeat of the persians and the roman
0:10:40 empires
0:10:41 and the brother mentioned to as well
0:10:44 that his most important message was
0:10:46 complete monotheism and a coherent
0:10:49 message that he he gave to us in the
0:10:52 form of the holy quran
0:10:54 beautiful
0:10:55 all right that's one minute and a half
0:10:58 that's fine we can go to the next person
0:11:00 thank you very much
0:11:02 uh who should we have next
0:11:06 well i think you're already here let's
0:11:08 go
0:11:10 um yeah uh so in terms of his life um
0:11:14 first uh he um proclaimed prophet when
0:11:17 he was 40 years old four years old and
0:11:19 prior to that um
0:11:21 within uh he stood out from uh society
0:11:23 uh
0:11:24 uh he's truly from his society uh due to
0:11:27 the
0:11:28 the
0:11:30 great characteristics that he had for
0:11:31 example he was known uh as a brother
0:11:33 mentioned for his truthfulness
0:11:35 he was known to be extremely principled
0:11:38 he also
0:11:39 was extremely uncomfortable uh with the
0:11:42 status quo of the time especially at the
0:11:44 spiritual state switzerland religious
0:11:46 state
0:11:48 he he
0:11:49 he was very averse to the politicism and
0:11:51 the idolatry that was present in arabia
0:11:54 back then
0:11:55 and then again like the brother
0:11:56 mentioned he he it was well known that
0:11:58 he was illiterate as well
0:12:00 uh and then uh
0:12:01 at the age of 40 uh he claims that he uh
0:12:04 he has
0:12:05 he has uh he's got revelation from god
0:12:08 uh and the revelation
0:12:11 eventually ends up being what we muslims
0:12:13 nowadays call the quran
0:12:15 which
0:12:16 everybody who studied uh can clearly
0:12:18 understand is a book of um
0:12:20 highly advanced in terms of its
0:12:22 literature so it seems very unlikely
0:12:23 that an illiterate person uh would have
0:12:26 produced it uh
0:12:28 the only argument you could make against
0:12:29 it is that maybe he was pretending to be
0:12:31 an a an illiterate person for like the
0:12:33 63 years of his life
0:12:36 which sounds very
0:12:37 conspiratorial um
0:12:39 yeah and then so uh for the first 13
0:12:42 years um
0:12:43 after his prophet uh he was in mecca uh
0:12:46 uh and where he was with him and
0:12:50 the people uh who accepted his message
0:12:52 was severely persecuted and even uh all
0:12:55 through the severe persecution
0:12:58 he never uh he never gave up on his
0:13:00 mission uh he straight
0:13:02 through his mission
0:13:03 and his principles
0:13:05 not even giving up on his mission he
0:13:07 didn't even compromise one bit even
0:13:10 though he was offered everything that a
0:13:12 man could imagine in this world
0:13:14 things like
0:13:15 wealth
0:13:17 women
0:13:18 and also power he rejected all all of
0:13:20 them uh and straight to true to his
0:13:22 mission and he even refused to
0:13:24 compromise uh even one bit
0:13:26 and then um
0:13:28 uh 13 years into his prophethood uh
0:13:32 the situation in mecca becomes
0:13:34 unbearable uh and then uh he he migrates
0:13:38 uh to nearby medina a city called medina
0:13:40 nearby uh uh and then that's where he
0:13:43 establishes uh uh
0:13:45 uh uh you could say a political system
0:13:49 uh and then
0:13:50 he uh uh he he he
0:13:53 he gains uh
0:13:54 uh significantly more following then
0:13:56 medina and then eventually
0:13:59 uh
0:14:00 while he was there he took in uh many
0:14:03 different battles with the meccans who
0:14:05 still had a grudge against him who still
0:14:06 wanted to stop him from spreading his
0:14:08 message because it felt like it was a
0:14:10 threat uh to what they believed and to
0:14:12 their way of life i guess
0:14:14 and then after all those battles
0:14:15 eventually and
0:14:17 concluded with uh uh
0:14:19 the uh with what the muslims would call
0:14:22 the victory of mecca where uh the
0:14:24 prophet uh
0:14:25 the initially before that they had a
0:14:27 treaty called the debate treaty uh
0:14:28 between the americans but the americans
0:14:30 violated it so the muslims uh uh took
0:14:33 harms against them and but uh the
0:14:36 meccans uh realizing that they have they
0:14:38 should no chance uh surrendered without
0:14:40 fighting
0:14:41 and um
0:14:43 and the prophet uh instead of choosing
0:14:45 to uh take revenge he uh
0:14:48 he forgave them all uh
0:14:51 and accepted uh uh accepted the
0:14:53 surrender basically
0:14:55 are you in a bit over right but it's
0:14:57 it's good masha'allah just get yourself
0:14:59 used to it
0:15:00 okay these exercises are important
0:15:02 because they just get they'll they'll
0:15:04 teach us a fluidity and being able to
0:15:06 present information
0:15:08 a lot of it is actually just relaxing
0:15:11 you know just be relaxed you know it's
0:15:13 there's no pressure here you know this
0:15:15 is the place where you can make all your
0:15:16 mistakes if you
0:15:18 have a sentence which is ungrammatical
0:15:20 or something or
0:15:22 you make a point which is a little bit
0:15:23 erroneous
0:15:24 which you're used to doing all the time
0:15:26 of course
0:15:27 um then it's fine it's you know this is
0:15:30 the place where we we learn and we you
0:15:32 know we develop
0:15:33 okay who's next who wants to be next i'm
0:15:35 not gonna you know who wants to be next
0:15:44 um
0:15:45 okay sure so
0:15:46 um the prophet muhammed who was actually
0:15:49 um not a prophet for a large part of his
0:15:51 life in fact for the most part his life
0:15:53 he wasn't a prophet um so before
0:15:56 prophethood um you know who was he you
0:15:58 know in a society that was filled with
0:16:00 uh you know all the different kinds of
0:16:02 ills and vices that you can think of
0:16:03 things like cheating prostitution
0:16:05 fornication
0:16:06 tribalism um racism they were burying
0:16:10 their daughters alive right so from this
0:16:12 society you have
0:16:14 a man
0:16:15 who grew up as an orphan right and he
0:16:17 grew up being unlettered
0:16:19 and the people they recognized him to be
0:16:21 noble and trustworthy and this is the
0:16:23 reputation that he built within this
0:16:25 society
0:16:26 and this for this reason they called him
0:16:28 him
0:16:29 and al-amin the truth and trustworthy so
0:16:31 he was widely accepted by a society
0:16:33 widely accepted by all the tribes and
0:16:34 they all loved him
0:16:36 um and then after prophethood so after
0:16:38 he received revelation and he became a
0:16:40 prophet
0:16:41 he then became an outcast why
0:16:43 only because he was calling people to
0:16:45 worship one god and he didn't want
0:16:47 anything else in return
0:16:49 so they offered him power they offered
0:16:51 him wealth they offered him women you
0:16:53 know anything that you could want right
0:16:55 and
0:16:56 he turned all of this down and he did
0:16:58 not compromise and he did not waver in
0:17:00 his claim these are all evidences to
0:17:02 show that he didn't want anything else
0:17:03 from anyone and that he was very
0:17:05 truthful
0:17:06 in his claim
0:17:07 um
0:17:08 and you know they called him many things
0:17:10 right um they called him uh you know a
0:17:12 madman they called him possessed but
0:17:14 they never called him uh you know a liar
0:17:17 and they never called him untrustworthy
0:17:18 and they never called him a womanizer or
0:17:21 a warlord or things like this right
0:17:24 um and that's because they knew that he
0:17:25 wasn't these things
0:17:27 um and they knew that he was trustworthy
0:17:29 so that's why the only thing that they
0:17:30 could say about him was the fact that
0:17:32 you know maybe he's just deluded maybe
0:17:33 he just possessed and that's why he's so
0:17:34 adamant for this claim
0:17:36 um
0:17:38 and you know uh for the most part of his
0:17:40 life um he lived in mecca but then after
0:17:42 he managed to migrate to medina and this
0:17:44 is where he actually gained acceptance
0:17:46 amongst the people and he didn't gain it
0:17:48 for any harsh means or through any wars
0:17:50 he gained acceptance you know very
0:17:51 naturally the people they gave him his
0:17:53 position of power and then um you know
0:17:55 with this he was able to spread islam
0:17:57 and you know in medina in the last part
0:17:59 of his life
0:18:00 um he did engage in many wars but these
0:18:02 are all you know proofs showing how
0:18:03 truthful he was to his claim
0:18:05 um
0:18:06 and
0:18:07 uh you know at the combination of his
0:18:09 life you know as you mentioned
0:18:10 previously he was very successful in all
0:18:11 of his different areas you know as a
0:18:13 family man as a husband
0:18:15 um
0:18:16 uh as a legislator and uh
0:18:20 yeah of course as a prophet and of
0:18:22 course like this statement about him you
0:18:24 know being deluded you know this is you
0:18:26 know probably the only argument that
0:18:27 someone could possibly make right how
0:18:29 the evidence is throughout the syria
0:18:30 that will show otherwise and i think the
0:18:32 main one that i would like to mention is
0:18:34 the death of his son ibrahim um so when
0:18:36 his son ibrahim died the prophet
0:18:38 salallahu sallam um
0:18:40 you know obviously very sad and then the
0:18:41 people they said that
0:18:43 um you know the sun has eclipsed or the
0:18:46 sun and moon they have eclipsed because
0:18:47 of this because of the death of his son
0:18:49 now if he was you know deluded and if he
0:18:51 was
0:18:52 um
0:18:53 you know just trying to you know make a
0:18:55 name for himself as a prophet he would
0:18:56 have attributed this attributed this to
0:18:58 himself but he didn't he told the people
0:19:00 that the sun and the moon are two signs
0:19:02 from the signs of allah
0:19:04 and
0:19:05 and um
0:19:06 they do not eclipse for the death of
0:19:08 anyone and instead what did he say he
0:19:10 said so
0:19:11 say takbir you know say that god is the
0:19:13 greatest and pray and give charity
0:19:17 so you know these all evidence show that
0:19:19 he was completely truthful and he was
0:19:21 completely rational and uh you know uh
0:19:24 not deluded in his claim
0:19:28 well thank you very much for that
0:19:29 there's only two things i would mention
0:19:30 but just be aware of um you said that
0:19:33 you know the the
0:19:35 wars acted as a proof but you didn't
0:19:37 tell us how that was the case yeah
0:19:40 another thing you you mentioned the term
0:19:42 legislator legislature or legislator
0:19:45 yeah
0:19:46 and uh the issue with that term is it
0:19:48 indicates he's inventing the laws
0:19:50 himself
0:19:51 so try use another
0:19:53 term i would say
0:19:55 um but apart from that very well done
0:19:56 and um anyone else wants to contribute
0:20:00 and we'll keep you know optional
0:20:03 yeah go ahead
0:20:17 to the muslims
0:20:19 crucially the final messenger in a line
0:20:21 of prophets
0:20:23 he was
0:20:24 born in mecca
0:20:26 in a region of the world at that time
0:20:28 that was cut off
0:20:30 civilization from its neighboring
0:20:32 empires um and it was not i was very
0:20:34 sort of disregarded it wasn't really
0:20:35 viewed in any significant terms by those
0:20:37 empires
0:20:38 um and those more i guess you could say
0:20:40 uh
0:20:42 advanced quote-unquote civilizations and
0:20:44 that was a society wherein there was
0:20:46 many moral ills that were taking place
0:20:47 you had issues of infanticide it was a
0:20:49 common practice for people to kill their
0:20:50 girls when they were born because out of
0:20:52 the shame of having given birth to girls
0:20:53 and the quran condemns this um it was a
0:20:55 common practice for you know there was
0:20:57 sexual lewdness and there was tribalism
0:20:58 and there was racism
0:21:00 um there was a lot of petty wars over
0:21:02 insignificant matters that were taking
0:21:04 place and there was a lot of bloodshed
0:21:05 and killing and there was no really sort
0:21:06 of um structure within that particular
0:21:08 society and so he was born um and he was
0:21:11 he was born an orphan his father passed
0:21:12 away before he was born his mother
0:21:14 passed away when he was six um he was
0:21:16 raised
0:21:18 amongst bedouins in the desert um he
0:21:20 lost also within these early years of
0:21:21 his life his grandfather and then later
0:21:23 on he would go on to lose his uncle his
0:21:25 wife and he would bury all of his
0:21:26 children within his lifetime
0:21:28 at the age of 40 uh he receives this
0:21:30 revelation um at a time when he was
0:21:32 already recognized amongst his people as
0:21:34 being someone of exemplary character
0:21:36 um he would often be turned to his
0:21:38 famous incident of a helpful fordham he
0:21:40 was turned to to be an arbitrator
0:21:41 amongst his people and they recognized
0:21:43 all of them they recognized
0:21:44 him as somebody who could be you know
0:21:47 relied upon and trusted in these uh in
0:21:49 these matters so when he receives this
0:21:51 revelation he begins to preach to his
0:21:53 people and his life you could really say
0:21:55 as from like a material world
0:21:56 perspective becomes absolutely like
0:21:58 doesn't become easier which is crucial
0:22:00 because if he's doing this in order to
0:22:02 make you know he's chasing the world and
0:22:03 he's chasing riches and wealth and all
0:22:05 those kind of things he didn't get any
0:22:06 of those things through claiming
0:22:07 prophethood rather he received the
0:22:09 rejections from his people he was mocked
0:22:11 him and his companions were beaten on
0:22:12 multiple occasions many of his
0:22:13 companions were martyred in this early
0:22:15 period they suffered a lot at the hands
0:22:17 of the hands of his own people
0:22:19 um and he would by himself he would go
0:22:21 to places like five and he would try to
0:22:23 give the message to those people and he
0:22:24 was chased out and beaten and his his
0:22:26 sandals turned red because of the blood
0:22:28 and all these things happened to him
0:22:29 during his lifetime in mecca
0:22:31 um and despite all of that stuff he's
0:22:34 being offered by his people we'll give
0:22:35 you money we'll give you women will give
0:22:37 you anything you want just to kind of
0:22:38 stop preaching this message he refused
0:22:40 and he remains resolute upon this um and
0:22:43 eventually he's invited
0:22:45 to go and become the leader of a new
0:22:47 community in medina by two tribes that
0:22:49 were previously warring but it was
0:22:51 because of him and because of his
0:22:52 leadership and because of the message
0:22:53 that he came with that he was able to
0:22:54 bring them together in medina
0:22:57 and he takes over this community
0:22:59 and takes over but he becomes a leader
0:23:00 of this particular community and he
0:23:02 incorporates within that community
0:23:03 minority rights so the jewish
0:23:05 communities that were there and received
0:23:07 recognition in the constitution that
0:23:09 they drew up
0:23:10 and it was a very formalized sort of
0:23:12 system that they had erected in that
0:23:14 place
0:23:15 and they're all living together within
0:23:16 this community
0:23:18 and now shouldered with the
0:23:19 responsibility of taking care of this
0:23:21 group of people that have called him
0:23:23 when um the pagan tribes of the irish
0:23:25 begin to march on them um he has to take
0:23:27 upon the mantle of not only being the
0:23:29 spiritual leader of this community but
0:23:30 also being a military and political
0:23:32 defender of that community thank you you
0:23:33 have to stop there got three here three
0:23:34 minutes twenty seconds everyone went
0:23:36 over today except for product he's
0:23:38 stable in time
0:23:40 but uh yeah we're good i i think you
0:23:42 mentioned have fulfilled but i don't
0:23:43 know the
0:23:45 i don't know if that's when he was an
0:23:46 arbitrator
0:23:48 was that when he was an arbitrator
0:23:50 yeah
0:23:51 yeah so that's uh
0:23:55 yeah it's it's a different incident
0:23:58 how much evidence
0:24:00 you went over 40 seconds he went over 20
0:24:02 seconds but i stopped him
0:24:04 before i stopped you because you were
0:24:05 still in the mid middle of making a
0:24:07 point
0:24:08 uh yeah but always bear in mind the time
0:24:11 like if you if you have three minutes
0:24:13 try and like um
0:24:15 have something
0:24:16 nearby where you're tracking the time
0:24:20 and it will become more and more like
0:24:23 second nature to you i guess you'll
0:24:25 start to have a better recognition of
0:24:26 time okay three minutes is like this
0:24:29 and
0:24:30 i think the the main thing is when
0:24:31 you're when you're presenting something
0:24:33 like this always think in terms of
0:24:34 bullet points okay so how many
0:24:37 conceivable bullet points can i make
0:24:39 within three minutes
0:24:40 five let's say and so you you've
0:24:42 sometimes got to limit yourself there's
0:24:45 so many things you could say but say
0:24:46 what are the five most salient points
0:24:49 and then you're kind of looking at the
0:24:50 time at least two three times you look
0:24:52 at it to see if you're
0:24:54 you've got it i remember there was a
0:24:56 blind shaykh i went to his house one
0:24:57 time
0:24:58 and he was uh making tea
0:25:01 and he just poured it and he knew
0:25:03 exactly where to stop you know
0:25:05 it's because practice makes perfect you
0:25:07 know he was he can't see but he
0:25:10 but he can hear it i think maybe because
0:25:11 it you know it makes a certain noise
0:25:13 when it goes up there or whatever it may
0:25:15 be
0:25:15 so the same thing is with public
0:25:17 speaking i feel i feel like
0:25:19 when you're given these slots five
0:25:21 minutes 10 minutes 15 20
0:25:24 you start to get used to it and you
0:25:25 start to
0:25:27 it becomes a little bit
0:25:28 easier but you have to that's why a good
0:25:31 watch is sometimes very important
0:25:34 it's very important um
0:25:36 let's go to the next part of this uh
0:25:39 of of uh of this
0:25:42 powerpoint so the next bit what we're
0:25:44 doing is
0:25:55 what we're going to do now is we're
0:25:56 going to look at some of the evidences
0:25:57 for islam okay
0:26:00 so we've just we've introduced the
0:26:01 prophet muhammad sallam now we know
0:26:04 somewhat how to do so we don't want
0:26:06 points to mention okay we can do it
0:26:08 within three minutes that's very
0:26:10 important all of that is very important
0:26:12 now though if you look at the slide
0:26:14 there are different things we can
0:26:16 mention
0:26:18 and
0:26:20 these are some of the main ones
0:26:22 so i've sent you a link with uh like i
0:26:25 think it was a 15-page booklet which
0:26:27 i've written this on the website my
0:26:28 website kyby h
0:26:30 dot co dot uk and the link is on the
0:26:33 group chat our group chat
0:26:35 but as you can see here these are some
0:26:37 of the main things
0:26:39 we can mention so let's start with
0:26:40 language
0:26:41 now there are lots of attempts nowadays
0:26:44 to try and translate some of the
0:26:46 individual linguistic miracles
0:26:48 from arabic to english like bayern do
0:26:50 some of this work norman ali khan does
0:26:52 some of this work
0:26:54 he depends largely on a man called
0:26:56 father samurai and also in a range of
0:26:58 other sources where they literally i
0:27:01 mean they do a good job
0:27:03 of translating some of the linguistic
0:27:06 miracles of the quran explaining why
0:27:08 they're linguistic miracles but that
0:27:10 requires
0:27:11 more than three minutes more than five
0:27:13 minutes you can't make these points
0:27:15 quickly
0:27:17 what you can say about language is that
0:27:21 there are facts here we know for a fact
0:27:24 that arabic society
0:27:26 was
0:27:27 largely a poetic society
0:27:29 we know that because there was
0:27:31 or the you know the main seven main
0:27:34 poems that were hanged on the kaaba
0:27:37 of the and we know that because the
0:27:39 quran references it
0:27:41 you know the
0:27:42 there's actually a whole chapter called
0:27:45 with the poets
0:27:47 we know that because of the hadith
0:27:49 literature
0:27:50 we know that because of other
0:27:53 literature which is pre-islamic which
0:27:55 references poems or poetry in general
0:27:58 so we know that the
0:28:01 the kind of
0:28:02 environment at that time was a poetic
0:28:04 environment
0:28:05 poetry was highly
0:28:08 respected and it was a medium
0:28:11 which was used by many people in that
0:28:13 society
0:28:14 we also know that there was more than
0:28:16 one claimant to the prophet prophet to
0:28:17 prophecy
0:28:19 muslim
0:28:21 as an example of that as a prominent
0:28:23 example
0:28:24 and we know that
0:28:26 there's challenges in the quran
0:28:28 referred to as the
0:28:30 inimitability challenge
0:28:40 from
0:28:49 if you are in any doubt for what we have
0:28:51 revealed to our servant
0:28:53 then produce a chapter like it
0:28:55 you know and produce and this was
0:28:58 actually this challenge
0:29:00 had started off as ten ten
0:29:03 uh
0:29:05 ten chapters and then it
0:29:07 it went down to one chapter
0:29:10 so uh
0:29:28 you know it's you know the other verse
0:29:30 which says that you know get 10 chapters
0:29:32 like it so it went from 10 to 1.
0:29:36 actually actually it started off by
0:29:38 reading the whole quran bring something
0:29:40 like it in israel
0:29:42 and then 10 10 chapters and then one
0:29:45 now it would have just saved a lot of
0:29:47 time and a lot of bloodshed
0:29:50 for someone to come and say well
0:29:51 actually i've got something which can
0:29:53 match what you've got
0:29:55 and then they can get followers through
0:29:56 that
0:29:57 and then there would be no requirement
0:29:58 for 19 wars that took place in medina
0:30:01 the fact that there was no
0:30:05 successful attempt at the time of the
0:30:07 prophet
0:30:08 by any claimant of prophecy or anybody
0:30:10 who has opposed the quran
0:30:13 to get something which
0:30:15 matched
0:30:16 the linguistic scope of the quran is an
0:30:19 evidence of this
0:30:20 is an evidence of the fact
0:30:22 that the linguistic superiority
0:30:25 of the quran was felt by the initial or
0:30:27 the primary recipients who are most
0:30:30 qualified
0:30:31 to
0:30:32 to
0:30:34 to know
0:30:35 i guess wha
0:30:36 what is um
0:30:38 good arabic and what was better i was
0:30:40 looking at one time
0:30:49 and call whoever you want from other god
0:30:52 and
0:30:53 either it's
0:30:55 but one of the tab
0:30:57 he said
0:31:00 from the people of specialism
0:31:02 so in other words
0:31:03 bring
0:31:04 linguistic specialists
0:31:06 to come and analyze
0:31:08 if what whatever it is that is being
0:31:10 presented aside from the quran or in
0:31:12 opposition to it or as a challenge to it
0:31:15 is in any way comparable to the quran
0:31:17 and we have very famous quotes from like
0:31:22 who was an arch enemy of islam
0:31:25 had great animosity islam
0:31:27 saying praise in the quran saying you
0:31:29 know it's
0:31:30 in
0:31:33 it's very high and this you cannot be
0:31:35 over taken
0:31:37 so people attempted they did attempt
0:31:40 muslim and a very famous uh i can't
0:31:42 remember the lines in arabic
0:31:50 yeah yeah that one yeah the the the
0:31:53 elephant and it's an attempt to try and
0:31:55 copy the quran style
0:31:57 but it was a failed attempt
0:31:59 and
0:32:01 you know no one accepted this
0:32:03 you know
0:32:04 so the fact that
0:32:06 it was able to supersede all other
0:32:08 attempts
0:32:10 and that no one could
0:32:12 could actually beat it in terms of this
0:32:14 challenge is a proof now
0:32:16 individual examples of that we can you
0:32:19 can refw we can refer cha la maybe we
0:32:21 can give two or three examples that are
0:32:23 easy to translate and that might be a
0:32:25 part of a task we do together
0:32:26 but the main argument has to be
0:32:29 it is a fact that the arabic society at
0:32:31 that time was ba was highly poetic is
0:32:34 also a fact that the quran challenges
0:32:36 people to produce a chapter like it
0:32:38 and this a fact that no one was able to
0:32:40 do so with any success any sociological
0:32:42 success
0:32:43 it's also a fact
0:32:45 that others who tried to claim
0:32:48 prophethood based on their own
0:32:50 verses of supposed revelation failed
0:32:54 that they had limited to no following
0:32:56 and after that they were extinct after a
0:32:58 couple of
0:32:59 years or whatever they were not
0:33:00 remembered
0:33:02 so that's the basis of the linguistic
0:33:05 argument and then you can give
0:33:06 subsidiary or
0:33:08 examples
0:33:09 of how the quran is linguistic some of
0:33:12 it can actually be translated
0:33:14 the second thing is structure
0:33:18 now this is really interesting
0:33:21 it's really interesting because it's
0:33:23 something which even non-muslims are
0:33:25 speaking about
0:33:26 like i was um
0:33:30 i was surprised to find that there's a
0:33:31 man called michael kuepers
0:33:33 who actually wrote
0:33:35 and his surname is spelt and not as not
0:33:38 as it sounds
0:33:40 c-u-y-p-u-r-s something like this
0:33:42 who's who writes about the structure of
0:33:44 the quran
0:33:45 how it's all structured
0:33:48 uh classically
0:33:49 asiyoti who died 911
0:33:53 he wrote a book
0:33:54 called
0:33:56 quran
0:33:57 which we're actually translating here at
0:33:59 sapiens institute
0:34:01 one of the books to facilitate this
0:34:02 argumentation here
0:34:04 a
0:34:04 s
0:34:06 the secrets of the
0:34:09 revelation oh sorry the secrets of the
0:34:10 chronology of the quran or the structure
0:34:12 of the quran
0:34:14 and basically
0:34:15 what he does is he goes through the
0:34:16 whole quran and he shows how the
0:34:18 beginnings and ends of each surah are
0:34:20 connected
0:34:21 and how the ends of one surah is
0:34:23 connected to the next surah
0:34:25 now if you've listened to norman ali
0:34:27 khan
0:34:28 and or his
0:34:29 explanations whatever you'll find is
0:34:31 very common in his
0:34:33 in his explanations and this may be one
0:34:35 of the the sources he's used
0:34:38 because
0:34:39 the the question is the quran has been
0:34:40 revealed or the point is really
0:34:42 the quran has been revealed piecemeal
0:34:45 and in fact the sultan makes this point
0:34:48 in more detail in his
0:34:50 quran
0:34:52 it's a book that he another book
0:34:54 and he says the quran has been revealed
0:34:55 peace meal meaning it's been revealed
0:34:57 over a span of 23 years
0:34:59 but despite the fact that it's been
0:35:01 revealed circumstantially
0:35:03 as a whole from beginning to end
0:35:06 it has a knitted togetherness
0:35:08 it has an intertextuality
0:35:11 which is extremely unusual to say the
0:35:13 least
0:35:14 neil robinson refers to this as coat
0:35:16 tailing
0:35:18 curtailing like the end of one surah
0:35:20 begins connects with the beginning of
0:35:22 the next
0:35:23 and this continues throughout the quran
0:35:25 another classical source is
0:35:28 who was a student who was the teacher of
0:35:30 ibm
0:35:31 and he wrote a book called
0:35:34 which is a similar kind of uh
0:35:36 attempt to show the
0:35:38 intertextuality or the ignited
0:35:40 togetherness or the connectedness of the
0:35:42 quran and a structure
0:35:46 so
0:35:46 this is so the way i do this when i go
0:35:49 to universities or whatever to show
0:35:52 the the structural
0:35:53 coherence of the quran
0:35:56 in fact that's the name of a book uh i
0:35:58 think raymond fahrend
0:36:00 is raymond farren raymond farin's book
0:36:03 uh structures or structures of the
0:36:05 quranic uh
0:36:07 structures of the quran or something
0:36:08 like this it's actually an easy book to
0:36:10 read in english and it does the same
0:36:12 kind of thing and i think he references
0:36:14 some of these classical sources how the
0:36:16 quran is all kind of lifted together
0:36:17 what i do
0:36:19 is i i ask there's 114 chapters of the
0:36:23 quran
0:36:24 so i asked them to give me two numbers
0:36:26 which are next to each other so give me
0:36:28 two numbers which are next to each other
0:36:29 any two
0:36:32 brilliant you know chapter 67 of surat
0:36:34 al-mulk and chapter 68
0:36:37 okay
0:36:39 now if you look at suratul mulk how it
0:36:41 starts and how it ends and
0:36:43 how it ends so how it starts and how it
0:36:45 ends you'll see
0:36:46 an easy
0:36:48 continuity
0:36:49 for example
0:36:51 allah in the beginning of surah al-qalam
0:36:54 so in the beginning of surat al-mulk
0:36:56 what does he mention he mentions the
0:36:58 heavens and the earth
0:36:59 he mentioned the sky
0:37:01 he mentions
0:37:03 he mentions
0:37:04 disbelievers
0:37:06 rejecting the messengers and in the end
0:37:08 of the same surah as he mentioned he
0:37:10 mentions the earth
0:37:12 and he mentions the water and the earth
0:37:14 and he mentions the same thing which
0:37:15 disbelieve is rejecting
0:37:18 the message
0:37:20 and in the beginning of kalam what does
0:37:22 it start with
0:37:24 it starts with the messenger
0:37:33 you know known and by the pen and so on
0:37:36 that you are not insane
0:37:39 okay
0:37:40 and that uh you have an impeccable
0:37:42 character we were talking about that
0:37:44 today right
0:37:45 and in the end of that chapter what does
0:37:47 it talk about
0:37:49 it talks about uh uh
0:37:52 when catholic
0:37:59 that when the the disbelievers look at
0:38:00 the zikr of the quran they say that he's
0:38:03 me he's mental he's insane so it started
0:38:05 off with mentioning what insanity and
0:38:08 rejection of the prophet and it ends off
0:38:10 by mentioning what insanity and
0:38:11 rejection of the prophet
0:38:15 you see there is clearly a knitted
0:38:17 togetherness here there is clearly a
0:38:19 continuity here
0:38:20 in in suratul mulk
0:38:23 it was talking about the heavens and the
0:38:24 earth
0:38:25 and the creation as a sign of uh as a
0:38:28 sign
0:38:28 of uh allah's being true and the
0:38:30 messenger be the the
0:38:32 revelation being true
0:38:34 and then in the next service allah is
0:38:35 being emphasized in suitamulk
0:38:37 and the messenger is being meant
0:38:38 emphasized as what in surat al-qaram
0:38:40 which is right next to it
0:38:42 can you see how this works
0:38:44 and this
0:38:45 don't forget the quran was not revealed
0:38:46 all in one go like that
0:38:49 all one
0:38:51 one block
0:38:52 it was revealed piecemeal
0:38:54 so give me another two
0:38:56 numbers
0:38:58 any numbers you like i sound like a
0:39:01 magician or something isn't it
0:39:04 34 35.
0:39:05 beautiful 34 35
0:39:08 34 rasool sabha
0:39:10 and 35 swords father
0:39:12 you see and what's really interesting
0:39:16 alhamdulillah
0:39:18 now let me tell you something very
0:39:19 interesting
0:39:23 seven years later
0:39:25 salham
0:39:51 who could have designed it in that way
0:39:54 and you know what's really interesting
0:39:56 is
0:39:58 it starts off by talking about
0:40:03 the heavens and the earth
0:40:05 and that allah he knows what goes up
0:40:07 into the heavens and he knows what goes
0:40:10 down onto the earth
0:40:12 you know and
0:40:18 it's the only place in the quran where
0:40:19 this construction
0:40:22 is and at the end of the surah you find
0:40:25 the same kind of messaging about the the
0:40:27 front of allah and the mercy of him his
0:40:30 mercy so his mercy is being emphasized
0:40:33 and at the end of surat
0:40:34 and the end of surah
0:40:36 sabha you obviously you have the story
0:40:39 of sabbath herself
0:40:41 inside there but you have uh the the
0:40:44 notion that when you think
0:40:46 you come to the conclusion that the
0:40:47 prophet is a true prophet
0:40:50 in your two threes
0:40:52 you know if you come together
0:40:54 and you're eta
0:40:56 maybe
0:40:58 he's not uh
0:40:59 deluded once again the same idea that we
0:41:01 talked about before
0:41:03 and so
0:41:04 in the beginning of it you'll find
0:41:06 strong uh once again affirmations of
0:41:08 prophethood so you have affirmations of
0:41:10 prophet in the end of chapter 34 and you
0:41:12 have affirmations of prophet in the
0:41:13 beginning of chapter five
0:41:17 any any other one one more example of
0:41:19 this
0:41:20 your numbers give me two numbers
0:41:24 but this this i'm telling the reason why
0:41:26 i'm leaving it open to show you that
0:41:28 this is not premeditated i'm not
0:41:30 premeditating this
0:41:32 you know obviously you have to have some
0:41:33 level of knowledge of the quran
0:41:35 which might take you know some some time
0:41:38 especially you know
0:41:40 but this you know this is it
0:41:42 you know give me two more numbers please
0:41:44 any any
0:41:59 one thing which is very clear between
0:42:00 chapter 22 and 23 is the stages of
0:42:02 embryological development right
0:42:05 uh allah he talks about how the the the
0:42:09 fetus is growing in the womb of the
0:42:11 mother
0:42:12 you know and this is continual in in
0:42:15 chapter 22 and 23 both of them is there
0:42:19 but just as allah he mentions
0:42:22 the growth of the fetus
0:42:25 in the womb of the mother he also
0:42:27 mentions
0:42:28 the growth the spiritual growth of the
0:42:29 believer
0:42:32 and in the beginning of sultan hajj and
0:42:34 obviously one of the best things in in
0:42:36 terms of spiritual growth is hajj itself
0:42:40 and in surah and
0:42:42 it mentions all all the things that
0:42:44 believers are characterized by in terms
0:42:47 of virtues but in chapter 22 it mentions
0:42:50 the things that believers do
0:42:52 in terms of practice like going to hajj
0:42:54 for example
0:42:56 and chapter 22 mentions the
0:42:59 which is
0:43:00 it mentions the the symbols of god
0:43:03 and the sacred symbols of god
0:43:05 and chapter 23 mentions the most sacred
0:43:08 types of believers
0:43:11 the the characteristics once again yeah
0:43:13 the end of chapter 23
0:43:16 it talks about
0:43:18 the
0:43:19 the the creations of the heavens and the
0:43:21 earth
0:43:22 and how allah has
0:43:25 averted the the devils
0:43:27 the sharkin
0:43:29 while allah mentions
0:43:34 the famous verse
0:43:36 that is
0:43:41 yeah
0:43:42 and so this in the beginning you have
0:43:45 zikr of the quran
0:43:47 and
0:43:48 the salah
0:43:49 and at the end you have this
0:43:51 which is this is this which means
0:43:54 seeking refuge from all of that which
0:43:55 goes against the
0:43:58 so once again this complementary and
0:44:01 you'll find the whole quran is like this
0:44:02 basically even though it wasn't revealed
0:44:05 in that format
0:44:07 now someone i could say
0:44:11 well the quran is the tatib of the quran
0:44:13 or the chronology of it is not
0:44:16 which means it's been put in place by
0:44:18 the sahaba and this was a view
0:44:21 of some people but even if if even if
0:44:23 this was the case allah he knew what the
0:44:25 quran would be like
0:44:28 because he says
0:44:31 that we have upon us is compilation and
0:44:33 its recitation so the way the quran is
0:44:35 now is the way the quran is
0:44:37 with this chronology as it is now
0:44:40 so whether it was a
0:44:42 commission to the sahaba to put it in
0:44:44 the places that they think is or not is
0:44:46 irrelevant but we based on this this is
0:44:49 an argument that it couldn't have been
0:44:51 and by the way there are some
0:44:52 indications in this in the sunnah that
0:44:54 it wasn't
0:44:55 like for example the prophet himself he
0:44:57 mentions like
0:44:59 he mentions
0:45:02 so he compartmentalizes
0:45:04 and mufasa
0:45:05 he compartmentalizes the types of surahs
0:45:07 the mufasa either from surah to the end
0:45:10 of the quran or surah najim to the end
0:45:12 of the quran chapter 50 or 53
0:45:14 respectively
0:45:16 up
0:45:18 11 of the quran and in between the
0:45:21 methane
0:45:24 and these so these are these are things
0:45:26 which are mentioned by the prophet
0:45:28 the chronology of each individual surah
0:45:30 was definitely built by ishmael put in
0:45:32 place the ayat by uh by the prophet
0:45:34 muhammed by the angel jibril
0:45:37 so these are just things to to note any
0:45:39 questions on that before we move on from
0:45:40 structure
0:45:47 but yeah i mean you can just think about
0:45:49 it
0:45:50 if you just think about it you'll find
0:45:51 there's always uh something to
0:45:54 and i've been thinking about this for a
0:45:55 long time
0:45:56 you know it's whenever i think about
0:45:58 this or every every time i was i see oh
0:46:00 look this is interesting because it
0:46:02 leads
0:46:02 it's a
0:46:03 interesting segue from the previous
0:46:06 surah because it was mentioning these
0:46:08 and
0:46:09 someone will say well this is ad hoc but
0:46:11 it's not ad hoc because lexically you
0:46:13 have you have words
0:46:15 which are very very similar in one surah
0:46:18 as it is to the next literally the same
0:46:20 types of words are used in slightly
0:46:23 different morphological or conjugated
0:46:24 root uh forms
0:46:26 and you'll find that that's the case
0:46:28 like one chapter then the next so there
0:46:30 is this knitted togetherness it's clear
0:46:32 it's thematized and sometimes you'll
0:46:34 find that it's
0:46:35 it's like clusters you might not see at
0:46:37 first it's like you know stars in the
0:46:39 sky you might not see that this made
0:46:41 into constellations but a keen eye and
0:46:44 you know a detailed person will see how
0:46:47 it is so
0:46:48 sometimes it's quite obvious like some
0:46:50 for example the hawa meme from chapter
0:46:52 40 to 46 all of them start with ham in
0:46:54 the beginning
0:46:56 there are clusters of surahs that sort
0:46:57 of alef
0:47:09 and so on you know and it's you you got
0:47:12 this
0:47:14 and at the end of by the way whenever
0:47:16 you find the hero from
0:47:17 you'll find dikka of the quran right
0:47:18 next to it
0:47:21 every single time and at the end of the
0:47:22 surah you find thicker of the quran
0:47:24 that's another continuity by the way
0:47:25 there's so many of these
0:47:27 they're like gems you can think about
0:47:28 them very interesting how it's all
0:47:30 structured anyway this is the structural
0:47:32 language
0:47:33 yes the
0:47:35 general view
0:47:37 of uh uthman he he kind of
0:47:41 compiled
0:47:42 the chapters in the orders that they
0:47:44 were supposed to be
0:47:46 is that
0:47:46 is that not accurate then no there's two
0:47:49 views
0:47:50 okay so asuoti mentions this in his uh
0:47:53 actually everybody messages but
0:47:54 zarakashi all of these guys i've
0:47:56 mentioned like
0:47:58 they mention
0:48:00 that
0:48:00 there's two views one view is that the
0:48:02 sahaba put it in that order
0:48:04 okay and the other view is that actually
0:48:05 it was from the prophet and it was
0:48:07 mentioned by the angel so
0:48:10 i would say the stronger view is yeah i
0:48:12 know stronger view whatever but
0:48:14 it seems based on what we were talking
0:48:15 about that allah he kind of put it
0:48:17 himself because otherwise how could
0:48:18 anyone know right but even if we say
0:48:21 we're saying even if we say the other
0:48:22 view is true
0:48:24 the fact remains allah he said in the
0:48:26 quran himself
0:48:28 is upon us the compilation
0:48:30 and it's uh and its recitation so though
0:48:33 its form right now the quran from faith
0:48:36 is something which is
0:48:39 like it is now you know with the
0:48:41 different karats and so on but it is
0:48:42 like that
0:48:43 you know
0:48:44 uh and uh so that's how i would answer
0:48:47 that
0:48:50 so the this should you should go to the
0:48:51 next one with any questions on structure
0:48:56 there's books in english and you'll see
0:48:58 on my book booklet that i've put on the
0:49:01 group i've put a very small reading list
0:49:04 on books you can see read in english
0:49:06 that talk about the structures of quran
0:49:08 yeah just one question here um
0:49:11 i can't remember the term that's used to
0:49:12 refer to it but sometimes people talk
0:49:14 about things like um and even looking
0:49:16 within ayat or even within like one
0:49:18 sword and seeing how like it sort of
0:49:19 mirrors itself yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
0:49:21 so yeah is that all like a valid
0:49:22 approach to take us yes i think it's
0:49:24 totally valid i i don't see why not it's
0:49:27 totally why not i mean if it's not valid
0:49:29 then why is bokai doing it why is a
0:49:31 sulti doing it it's classical scholars
0:49:33 have done it it's not
0:49:35 if it was an ad hoc enterprise then
0:49:37 these classical scholars would be not
0:49:39 justified in doing it but even if you
0:49:41 read tafasir it's
0:49:45 he does that quite often
0:49:46 to be honest
0:49:48 to allah he does it sometimes
0:49:51 you know
0:49:52 um
0:49:53 but yeah it's i i think it's valid i
0:49:55 mean why not um i mean if you want to
0:49:58 make it a strong argument choose a surah
0:50:00 which hasn't got which hasn't been
0:50:01 revealed all at one time like
0:50:04 because if you sort of yusuf has a very
0:50:06 clear symmetry
0:50:08 i'm not sure if you've seen that or how
0:50:09 it's done well i think
0:50:11 has done something on this yeah
0:50:13 i'm pretty sure he would have
0:50:14 it has a very like
0:50:16 when when yusuf is
0:50:18 when he goes somewhere and then when
0:50:19 he's found and you know these kinds of
0:50:21 things it's literally
0:50:23 inverted
0:50:24 kind of structure but because yusuf for
0:50:27 apologetic purposes was revealed all one
0:50:29 go one of the only sources to be
0:50:30 revealed on one go i wouldn't use it as
0:50:31 an example i would use more like little
0:50:33 bakara
0:50:34 and you know who mentions bakara and he
0:50:36 uses as an example muhammad draz in his
0:50:39 kitab nebula which by the way is very
0:50:41 important for dawah one of the most
0:50:42 important books for daoist english is
0:50:44 called the eternal challenge
0:50:45 not the eternal challenge that's written
0:50:47 by abu zakariyah
0:50:48 the blue because he also has a book like
0:50:51 that it's called the eternal challenge
0:50:52 by muhammad raz in arabic is called and
0:50:54 nebula and he mentions the example of
0:50:56 surah al-baqarah
0:50:58 so in terms of structure because he
0:50:59 mentions
0:51:00 the same kind of argument a structural
0:51:02 argument
0:51:06 here any other points
0:51:08 okay
0:51:10 so
0:51:11 in terms of the historical argument
0:51:13 there are many you can make
0:51:15 and
0:51:16 i mentioned some in there in the booklet
0:51:19 i think one really super tight one
0:51:22 sorry
0:51:23 one really um really good one
0:51:26 is the
0:51:27 king
0:51:29 king and pharaoh distinction but i think
0:51:31 i've spoken enough so what i'm gonna do
0:51:34 is i'm gonna ask you to present this to
0:51:35 me this time
0:51:37 uh go on to my booklet okay i'm going to
0:51:39 give you five minutes
0:51:40 get the sources i've put all the kind of
0:51:42 references there
0:51:43 and you make the argument
0:51:46 uh using the king and pharaoh example
0:51:49 okay we've made this a few times
0:51:51 it's a very strong argument so try and
0:51:53 uh dude i'll give you five minutes in
0:51:54 china
0:51:56 i want everyone to have a go here okay
0:51:58 everyone please
0:52:00 and i will try and limit to one minute
0:52:03 because i feel like we can do this in
0:52:04 one minute
0:52:05 yeah
0:52:06 you're basically just making one point
0:52:08 in one minute one point in one minute
0:52:11 and the point
0:52:12 do you know have you ever been to school
0:52:15 i'm sure all of you have him and then in
0:52:17 english or some like social science uh
0:52:20 thing
0:52:20 they teach you p-e-e or p-e-a or
0:52:23 something like that
0:52:25 do you remember what that stands for
0:52:26 point example explanation
0:52:29 this is a very solid structure you know
0:52:31 it's a very solid structure
0:52:34 make your point give the example and
0:52:35 then explain it
0:52:37 very solid
0:52:39 okay let's uh we'll start from the right
0:52:41 this time
0:52:43 yeah please just one minute yeah okay
0:52:46 so the point could be made that a
0:52:48 historical accuracy in the quran is the
0:52:50 verse in sword where allah says
0:52:55 and the heavens and earth wept not for
0:52:57 them nor were they replied referring to
0:52:59 the pharaoh
0:53:00 so interestingly uh primary source
0:53:03 material from pyramid texts indicate
0:53:05 that this was a common practice
0:53:07 uh practiced when pharaohs died
0:53:10 so the followers of the pharaohs would
0:53:13 refer to the heavens and earth
0:53:15 as weeping creatures
0:53:17 and uh this fact was not actually
0:53:19 mentioned in any jewish source or the
0:53:21 old testament and allah refers to this
0:53:24 in sort of
0:53:25 so this is extremely interesting because
0:53:27 the prophet would not have any previous
0:53:28 knowledge about this incident
0:53:30 due to the due to there not being any uh
0:53:32 texts or manuscripts
0:53:34 from
0:53:35 the ancient egypt present at that time
0:53:36 in medina mecca
0:53:38 really be fantastic i like him and you
0:53:40 you had five seconds to spare
0:53:42 okay uh next
0:53:46 month
0:53:47 go ahead
0:53:49 can somebody okay fine fine sorry yeah
0:53:52 i don't know
0:53:54 this
0:54:01 so okay that's fine next time okay next
0:54:03 time all right fine
0:54:05 um sorry brother
0:54:07 i got misunderstood the question i i
0:54:11 went to the example of uh
0:54:13 prophecies unfortunately that's fine
0:54:15 we've got that next we've got that
0:54:16 coming up next that's fine
0:54:18 yeah
0:54:19 it's not good to me
0:54:20 okay ready
0:54:22 have you said the no okay so um
0:54:25 there can be a case to be made for the
0:54:26 historical access of the quran
0:54:29 on the basis that the quran explicitly
0:54:31 states that
0:54:32 pharaoh um he was the leader of egypt at
0:54:34 the time of muslim islam that he claimed
0:54:37 made a claim to divinity uh so he says
0:54:41 he said that i am your lord the most
0:54:42 high um and this is in correspondence
0:54:44 with some of the historical dates that
0:54:46 we have um and so it's recorded that
0:54:48 the egyptians would worship gods like
0:54:50 horus and isis and others and that the
0:54:53 pharaohs would claim divinity so this is
0:54:54 a place where um the quran which is a
0:54:57 carved civilization he has no access to
0:54:59 this historical information seems to
0:55:01 correspond with the historical reality
0:55:02 fantastic and this you'd be surprised to
0:55:05 realize the fact that pharaohs refers to
0:55:07 himself as god is not mentioned in the
0:55:09 old testament
0:55:10 it's not mentioned the old testament
0:55:12 so do they believe
0:55:14 that no if there's nothing in there in
0:55:16 the old testament pharaoh himself is
0:55:17 saying i'm god it's nothing no just
0:55:20 purely from quran
0:55:23 we know that they did refer to
0:55:24 themselves as gods
0:55:26 he liked that one huh yeah yeah well you
0:55:28 know
0:55:28 that was simple it's how simple is that
0:55:30 one
0:55:32 okay
0:55:34 right and i would say that when you made
0:55:36 your point in the beginning you could
0:55:38 bolster the point you can strengthen the
0:55:40 point but instead of saying there's a
0:55:41 case to be made for the historical
0:55:42 accuracy of the quran
0:55:44 saying there's a case to be made
0:55:46 that for instance
0:55:49 the quran has
0:55:50 information in it
0:55:52 which
0:55:53 the old testament doesn't have on be
0:55:55 very specific of what your claim is
0:55:56 right so
0:55:57 it has information in it that other
0:56:00 previous scriptures didn't have
0:56:02 which correspond with information that
0:56:04 we have now gathered
0:56:05 through
0:56:06 uh
0:56:08 kind of
0:56:08 manuscripts that we've only uncovered
0:56:10 recently and or that we have only
0:56:12 unlocked recently because don't forget
0:56:14 hieroglyphics were only unlocked when
0:56:17 in like 1700s or something when was it
0:56:19 when was the rosetta stone found
0:56:22 1799 right so the rosetta stone for
0:56:24 those who don't know was a stone
0:56:25 basically that had three different
0:56:26 languages on it
0:56:28 and one of them was egyptian
0:56:29 hieroglyphics so they were able to kind
0:56:31 of unlock
0:56:32 that language before that you didn't
0:56:33 have that language
0:56:35 people didn't have access to it
0:56:36 illiterate manner that does it forget
0:56:38 about a literal manner any man in the
0:56:40 desert the romans didn't have access to
0:56:42 the hieroglyphics
0:56:44 okay until the this is it's
0:56:46 uncontroversial point of history
0:56:48 is simply uncontroversial right
0:56:50 so let alone uh obscure manuscripts you
0:56:53 know that that reference things like
0:56:55 this
0:56:56 you know uh so the argument would then
0:56:59 have to be made that he had access to
0:57:00 some manuscripts
0:57:02 and he and you had to unlock it
0:57:04 and and there were obscure manuscripts
0:57:06 which were only uncovered recently with
0:57:08 egyptology being on the rise uh because
0:57:10 of archaeological excavation in egypt
0:57:12 and so on which is a very difficult case
0:57:14 to make these are very strong points
0:57:17 and yeah
0:57:19 could we could we use the uh
0:57:21 the the
0:57:22 in the quran where it says that they
0:57:24 that allah will preserve the um the body
0:57:27 of pharaoh
0:57:28 ramses yes and that was only re well
0:57:32 discovered
0:57:34 look i mean
0:57:35 so the
0:57:37 the verses
0:57:49 today we have
0:57:51 will preserve your body so that we can
0:57:53 be for whatever is after you and a sign
0:57:56 if you look at what nabas and others
0:57:58 have said about this in the says this is
0:58:01 for the this is specific to the people
0:58:03 of israel
0:58:04 this is specific to the bani israel
0:58:06 however
0:58:08 the al-fath or the general sayings of
0:58:10 the quran here don't negate that it
0:58:12 could also be referring to for us as
0:58:14 well because it's
0:58:16 general speech
0:58:18 and we know that
0:58:20 okay rams is the second there's a reason
0:58:22 why they they
0:58:23 correlate ramps is the second with moses
0:58:26 which we can have a discussion about
0:58:29 but the fact i mean let me tell you
0:58:31 right now actually let's not waste time
0:58:32 uh after rahm sisters ii is a guy called
0:58:34 murampata
0:58:37 was the immediate successor of ramses ii
0:58:41 and he had something called a stile
0:58:43 now every um pharaoh has a stele which
0:58:46 is basically a rock that they put the
0:58:48 history on it yeah
0:58:50 ram says sorry murampata stiles actually
0:58:53 references the children of israel in the
0:58:55 11th line
0:58:57 and we have driven them the children of
0:58:59 israel outside the land or something
0:59:00 like that obviously they're trying to
0:59:02 explain which by the way is extra
0:59:04 biblical
0:59:05 extra biblical extra quranic historical
0:59:08 information that there existed such a
0:59:10 people as the children of israel in
0:59:11 egypt this is not in the bible in the
0:59:13 quran this is a
0:59:14 independent source the source the stele
0:59:17 of murampata
0:59:18 now because maramputa came right after
0:59:20 ramses ii
0:59:21 they reason that ramses ii
0:59:25 was the the pharaoh because he's rampant
0:59:28 is referring to an incident that took
0:59:29 place before him
0:59:30 and another reason why is because ramses
0:59:32 ii lived for about 90 years
0:59:35 and he's the only one
0:59:37 who could have fulfilled the criterion
0:59:39 of uh
0:59:40 of of
0:59:42 uh of of basically being in premiership
0:59:45 for all that time so if we say francis
0:59:47 ii we know that ramses ii's body was
0:59:49 excavated
0:59:51 i'm not sure if you guys know the story
0:59:52 of it but basically his body
0:59:54 was sent to france
0:59:56 in egypt they found it in egypt
0:59:59 deep in
1:00:00 you know
1:00:02 some place and as i think it was assad
1:00:05 who was the president of egypt in the
1:00:06 70s
1:00:08 i don't know why he would do this as to
1:00:10 be honest
1:00:12 uh claiming to be a muslim but he said
1:00:13 since he was a leader of egypt just like
1:00:15 i was the leader of egypt and obviously
1:00:17 he said we have to show him respect
1:00:19 you know
1:00:21 yeah yeah so they they they they packed
1:00:24 his body into like a
1:00:26 like like a royal
1:00:28 limousine or i don't know something like
1:00:30 that and they sent it over to i think it
1:00:32 was the museum in france
1:00:33 and we have that but like now they've
1:00:35 actually made pictures of animations of
1:00:37 what it looks like i've seen it have you
1:00:38 seen it
1:00:40 we've
1:00:44 that's what my wife says
1:00:45 i've seen him as well but she's
1:00:46 referring to me
1:00:49 the authoritarian
1:00:52 but uh you see so the fact that his body
1:00:55 is there is definitely a is i would i
1:00:57 would use it but i would say it's not
1:00:59 the strongest points
1:01:02 the strongest points which no one has
1:01:04 mentioned yet i i think is the whole uh
1:01:07 uh one of at least at least one of the
1:01:09 strongest points is the king pharaoh
1:01:10 distinction
1:01:12 so who do you want to mention this
1:01:14 um yeah sure please yeah
1:01:17 and try and reference the source as well
1:01:19 go ahead yeah
1:01:23 what's interesting history
1:01:26 yeah
1:01:27 this is a very strong argument we don't
1:01:28 use it strongly enough especially
1:01:30 considering there's so much in the bible
1:01:32 that contradicts like what modern
1:01:34 historical
1:01:35 findings have shown like uh one of the
1:01:39 major contentions that christian was
1:01:41 he's looking for were that biblical
1:01:44 scholars like this israel finkelstein
1:01:46 and this kind of what he called the
1:01:47 minimalists they're called historical
1:01:49 minimalists because they believe
1:01:51 in giving minimal priority to the
1:01:53 biblical discourse when looking at
1:01:55 history yeah
1:01:56 not norman finkelstein the guy's called
1:01:58 israel think of science a different
1:02:00 field or to get a different person
1:02:01 and he was saying um
1:02:03 one of the biggest blunders according to
1:02:06 him according to the archaeological
1:02:07 record is that that you know you had all
1:02:10 these mass exodus so many people
1:02:13 hundreds of thousands of people moving
1:02:15 but the quran says
1:02:19 that these are a very small band of
1:02:21 people
1:02:21 so one of the major contentions that
1:02:23 this minimalist had
1:02:25 is not an issue at all when it comes to
1:02:26 the quran for example right
1:02:29 so this is a historical sieving
1:02:32 and the question is how could the quran
1:02:33 have the propensity to be muhammad
1:02:36 or a guidance or
1:02:38 um
1:02:39 kind of filter filtering the inaccurate
1:02:42 information according to
1:02:43 historical information how could it do
1:02:45 that
1:02:47 if it was trying to copy the bible yes
1:02:49 in terms of using historical arguments
1:02:50 yeah yeah um is there a potential that
1:02:53 like some of the i guess complexities
1:02:55 that arise when we use scientific
1:02:56 arguments for example could potentially
1:02:58 happen as well with historical stuff
1:02:59 because
1:03:00 you're relying on basically the current
1:03:01 set of historical data yeah of course
1:03:04 i think that but however with with
1:03:06 prophecies in history
1:03:08 the situation is less severe because in
1:03:11 the case of science it's more
1:03:12 falsification works forwardly like
1:03:15 if i have a sample group now and then
1:03:17 some scientist comes and falsifies it in
1:03:18 the laboratory it's different to a
1:03:20 historical event that's happened now
1:03:22 like
1:03:24 a review of a historical event in its
1:03:27 entirety is less likely like someone's
1:03:30 going to say this didn't have the
1:03:31 holocaust didn't happen in these time
1:03:33 periods someone said something like that
1:03:35 that's much more difficult to establish
1:03:38 than a reveal of a scientific fact
1:03:41 you see what i'm saying because we have
1:03:42 that we have a hindsight a retrospective
1:03:45 advantage that this is something which
1:03:47 happened the details are more likely to
1:03:49 be
1:03:50 fleshed out and uh differed upon and
1:03:52 this is why it's called historical
1:03:54 revisionism you know when you have
1:03:56 people that are looking at it now from a
1:03:57 different perspective and these same
1:03:59 issues like theory relatedness and so on
1:04:01 are still applicable to a large extent
1:04:03 to the historical enterprise
1:04:05 you know but once again it's more
1:04:06 difficult to disprove a negative in the
1:04:08 sense that
1:04:10 if you have a manuscript now
1:04:12 and unless you say this manuscript is
1:04:15 false or that it didn't exist or
1:04:16 something which is more difficult to do
1:04:19 it's it's very difficult historically to
1:04:21 say that this didn't happen
1:04:23 whereas if you don't have a piece of
1:04:25 information it will be called the
1:04:27 argument from silence if you say we
1:04:29 don't have information therefore didn't
1:04:31 happen
1:04:32 so if you have a manuscript
1:04:34 let's say you have the bible you have
1:04:35 the quran you have whatever it is the
1:04:37 diary of king henry viii it's difficult
1:04:39 to disprove the fact that king henry
1:04:42 viii especially if there's a broad-scale
1:04:43 historical consensus that this was in
1:04:45 fact his diary to disprove that it's
1:04:47 more difficult to disprove that than it
1:04:49 is to say because we don't have such
1:04:51 evidence
1:04:53 therefore such a thing didn't exist
1:04:55 so i feel like because of the the
1:04:57 retrospective advantage
1:05:00 it's more difficult to overturn a
1:05:02 historical event
1:05:04 than it is to overturn
1:05:06 to overturn the scientific fact
1:05:08 both of them have epistemological
1:05:10 limitations
1:05:11 everything does that and that has
1:05:12 inductive uh traits
1:05:15 you know
1:05:16 yeah so go ahead please are you ready
1:05:19 yeah
1:05:20 yes go ahead um so
1:05:23 the uh difference between having the
1:05:25 pharaoh and the king so in the bible we
1:05:27 have the pharaoh who is mentioned um at
1:05:30 the time of uh joseph and also at the
1:05:32 time of moses so in both
1:05:36 times in history in egypt the rule of
1:05:38 egypt is referred to as pharaoh and this
1:05:40 is found in genesis
1:05:43 for the story of joseph and in exodus
1:05:45 for the story of moses
1:05:47 and then if we look at the quran instead
1:05:49 we see that um interestingly
1:05:51 interestingly uh at the time of joseph
1:05:55 the rule of egypt is referred to as a
1:05:57 king and then at the time of moses every
1:05:59 single time the quran refers to this
1:06:01 ruler as pharaoh and if we you know if
1:06:04 we look at the uh kind of historical
1:06:06 record of this we actually come to
1:06:08 realization that the bible it gets it
1:06:10 wrong and the ruler at the time of
1:06:12 joseph was actually not a pharaoh and
1:06:14 they referred to them as kings however
1:06:16 the quran instead gets to the right so
1:06:18 this shows that you know the bible it
1:06:20 was an error here and the quran was
1:06:21 obviously not copying the bible under
1:06:23 the quran yeah it's historically
1:06:25 accurate very good i mean there's more
1:06:26 work to be done in terms of establishing
1:06:28 why
1:06:29 at the time of the middle kingdom it had
1:06:32 to be a king and it couldn't be
1:06:33 a pharaoh especially considering how do
1:06:36 we establish it was the middle kingdom
1:06:38 how do we establish that joseph was in
1:06:39 the middle kingdom so there's two
1:06:41 there's two bits of your thing the
1:06:42 answer that need to be bolstered here
1:06:44 and i won't give you the answer now
1:06:45 because we need to move on yeah but for
1:06:47 next time i'll probably quiz you on this
1:06:49 specifically
1:06:50 number one how do we establish it with
1:06:51 the middle kingdom such that the word
1:06:54 pharaoh which comes from the
1:06:55 hieroglyphic power which means like like
1:06:57 the the white house or the great house
1:07:00 whatever it is yeah
1:07:02 that was not being used and instead the
1:07:03 word king was being used yeah had we
1:07:06 established it was the middle kingdom
1:07:07 such that we can say that the bible made
1:07:09 an error
1:07:11 and number two
1:07:12 yeah just actually just focus on that
1:07:14 focus on that because that will answer a
1:07:15 lot of the questions
1:07:17 but apart from that yes then you can
1:07:19 conclude when you once you put that
1:07:21 jigsaw piece there
1:07:23 that since joseph was not he was not in
1:07:25 the air he was in the middle kingdom
1:07:29 so they were not using the word pharaoh
1:07:31 at that time the quran uses the word
1:07:33 king
1:07:34 the bible used the word pharaoh
1:07:35 according to this
1:07:37 it means that the quran is more accurate
1:07:39 in the bible
1:07:40 simple as that it's correcting it
1:07:42 you could say it's correcting it and
1:07:44 this is extremely powerful because it's
1:07:46 a detail that
1:07:47 is so inconceivable
1:07:49 that a 7th century man could ever have
1:07:53 understood that
1:07:54 it's very difficult that's a very
1:07:56 difficult thing
1:07:58 and we put some references there so
1:08:00 now we're going to move on quickly
1:08:02 swiftly we're not going to mention
1:08:04 everything right
1:08:06 but one thing i mention as a category in
1:08:09 and of itself and i'll just mention this
1:08:10 myself okay
1:08:12 is that the prophecies in the previous
1:08:14 revelation now i would recommend looking
1:08:16 at nanoshoots debates on this
1:08:19 specifically isaiah chapter 42 verse 11
1:08:23 because when isaiah basically isaiah 42
1:08:26 talks about prophet to come
1:08:28 and 42 11 talks about it will come to it
1:08:31 says in chapter 42 that will come to the
1:08:33 people of kedar we know the book of
1:08:34 genesis the people of kate are the
1:08:36 ishmaelites the arabs and 42 11 in
1:08:39 isaiah says that the people of the mount
1:08:41 of salah will be rejoiced so the people
1:08:43 of cada will be rejoicing on the mount
1:08:44 of salah
1:08:45 on the on the mountaintops now we know
1:08:47 that selah is actually in medina so this
1:08:51 is a very pinpoint
1:08:53 prediction in the bible about a prophet
1:08:55 that's going to come to the people of
1:08:57 medina basically
1:08:58 and look into that because if especially
1:09:01 if you're speaking to a christian this
1:09:03 is a very golden thing to use
1:09:05 it's we can't say it's jesus because
1:09:08 he's not censored arabs
1:09:10 you can't say who who can you say it was
1:09:11 you know
1:09:12 who has come in history that was a
1:09:15 prophet an arab to the people of medina
1:09:17 is to is too specific
1:09:20 and so you can use that with christian
1:09:21 people
1:09:23 now prophecies i'm sure all of you know
1:09:25 some prophecy so let's do a quick round
1:09:28 of some major prophecies that you guys
1:09:30 have heard of or know and there is a
1:09:32 book called the forbidden prophecies
1:09:34 i'm not sure if we've got it here but
1:09:36 you should all this you can download it
1:09:37 free of charge on pdf and i recommend
1:09:40 that you download it i think he mentions
1:09:41 ten good ones
1:09:43 and with prophecies what you want is you
1:09:45 want you want prophecies with the most
1:09:47 explanatory scope
1:09:49 and the least refutational
1:09:51 susceptibility
1:09:53 so it's
1:09:54 least likely to be attacked and most
1:09:57 likely to do the attacking
1:10:00 you've mentioned
1:10:12 that the romans had been defeated in a
1:10:13 nobel in the nearby lowland and that
1:10:15 after three to nine years that they will
1:10:17 be victorious
1:10:18 and we have and you can see i put this
1:10:20 on my instagram actually there's primary
1:10:22 source material
1:10:24 that indicates this from an extra
1:10:25 islamic perspective not quran hadith so
1:10:28 we're talking about for example the
1:10:29 chronicles of theophanus
1:10:31 and he mentions that i think it was in
1:10:33 year 613 that this war took place
1:10:36 and uh they materialized
1:10:40 and you have second resource material
1:10:41 like edward gibbon and stuff it's
1:10:43 mentioned in the book so you can look at
1:10:44 that
1:10:45 it's not just muslims that are saying
1:10:46 that this war took place as the quran
1:10:48 said
1:10:49 and the romans did defeat the persians
1:10:51 and we have the sources there
1:10:54 and imagine if this imagine if it didn't
1:10:56 happen like that that in three to nine
1:10:58 years that they would the romans would
1:10:59 defeat the persians and it didn't happen
1:11:02 that would have a seriously undermining
1:11:04 impact on them and the message
1:11:08 you know i've been putting this as
1:11:10 an argument for a very long time to
1:11:12 people
1:11:13 for maybe 10 years now honestly 10 years
1:11:16 all different kinds of people the
1:11:18 strongest response i had
1:11:20 was
1:11:21 well actually if you if you take off the
1:11:23 harakat of the ayah
1:11:29 yeah because you can yeah but by the way
1:11:31 that's not in any of the
1:11:33 but anyways for the sake of argument
1:11:35 but what how can you explain
1:11:37 because
1:11:38 they will become victorious that's not
1:11:39 susceptible to any tariq or any
1:11:42 differences vowels
1:11:43 die critical marks sir is in arabic
1:11:46 always talking about the future so you
1:11:48 can try and manipulate the harakatu and
1:11:49 the dots what you like but says there
1:11:52 that's a letter you know you'd have to
1:11:54 now make it some other sheen no no no it
1:11:57 won't even make sense
1:12:00 it has to be a scene
1:12:01 so in other words if they try and play
1:12:03 around and say well the dots can be
1:12:05 manipulated even if you manipulate the
1:12:06 dots you can't manipulate the letters
1:12:08 like that and so this is certainly
1:12:10 something which is i've found to be one
1:12:12 of the most powerful prophecies
1:12:14 another one
1:12:15 is yet
1:12:17 that the arab the barefooted bedouin
1:12:19 arabs will be competing to for the high
1:12:21 buildings and we know this is the case
1:12:23 now burj khalifa and this and that and
1:12:25 this is you could say what could have
1:12:26 been easily predicted but the thing is
1:12:28 who would have known that in the 30s
1:12:30 these countries would have found oil
1:12:31 such that they would be able to do this
1:12:33 in the first place
1:12:34 you know another thing is sexually
1:12:36 transmitted diseases but not just any
1:12:39 sexually and transmitted diseases
1:12:45 they wouldn't have been they weren't
1:12:46 present before the
1:12:48 because of fornication and lewdness and
1:12:50 whatever there will be diseases sexual
1:12:53 drug diseases which didn't exist the
1:12:55 invention of new stds not just stds not
1:12:58 just the proliferation of stds the
1:13:00 invention of new stds
1:13:02 that's a very difficult one to predict
1:13:04 the invention there will be because of
1:13:06 proliferation of sexual intercourse not
1:13:08 just stds will go widespread but there
1:13:11 will be new ones
1:13:12 that will come into being
1:13:14 and another one which is really powerful
1:13:16 and i'm saying this quickly right
1:13:18 but it's the usury thing
1:13:20 economies will be in fact
1:13:24 economies will be
1:13:26 flooded with interest such that you will
1:13:28 not be able to shake off his dust
1:13:30 that's exactly how the economy is today
1:13:32 like literally that the interest will be
1:13:34 everywhere
1:13:36 that you won't be able to to wipe away
1:13:38 is
1:13:39 its dust
1:13:40 that's another that's another really
1:13:42 really powerful one because it talks
1:13:43 about this state of
1:13:44 like the world economy
1:13:47 and so these are some of the ones i
1:13:49 would use okay these are some of the
1:13:51 ones i would use there are other ones
1:13:52 which are which are really powerful as
1:13:54 well like for example the very famous
1:13:57 hadith of when the prophet sallam when
1:13:59 he was in khandak al-azab
1:14:02 and the the monarchs were there and the
1:14:04 the jewish tribes which uh um which when
1:14:07 against the prophet muhammad was inside
1:14:10 uh the place and outside the quran they
1:14:12 were all trying to kill you know
1:14:14 siege the place
1:14:16 and the they were starving prophet
1:14:18 muhammad was starving and so on and then
1:14:19 he put the rock on his stomach because
1:14:21 he was so hungry uh and they were all
1:14:23 starving from the thing and then the
1:14:25 rock was then he knocked it one time and
1:14:28 he said futihat a room or forty harum
1:14:31 and then so rome rome has been conquered
1:14:34 and then the second time he smashed the
1:14:36 rock and he said and he said uh
1:14:38 uh
1:14:40 ferris
1:14:43 persian empire has been conquered and
1:14:44 then after that 40 years after yemen has
1:14:47 been conquered
1:14:49 you're in a situation of weakness
1:14:50 everyone's attacking you and you're
1:14:51 saying we're going to conquer the
1:14:52 persian and the roman empire this is why
1:14:54 barnaby rogerson said
1:14:56 you know he said something really
1:14:57 interesting historian he said that the
1:14:59 fact that the arabs were able to conquer
1:15:02 the persian the roman empire is
1:15:03 equivalent to eskimos being able to
1:15:05 conquer russia russia and uh and america
1:15:08 it's really powerful
1:15:11 but these are some of the prophecies
1:15:12 that are mentioned uh in the book but
1:15:14 you can look for more details about that
1:15:16 and compare and contrast this with the
1:15:17 bible and
1:15:19 particularly what is referred to as the
1:15:20 olivet discourse
1:15:22 the olivet discourse is
1:15:25 mentioned that basically the judgment is
1:15:27 coming on right yani is on the brink
1:15:30 next generation is going to be the day
1:15:32 of judgement that's how they've
1:15:33 understood it that's how paul understood
1:15:34 it by the way paul understood it as
1:15:36 apocalypse is there the in the in the
1:15:38 primary texts like the dedicate in
1:15:42 christian texts they understood that the
1:15:44 apocalypse is happening now
1:15:46 yeah
1:15:47 like in in our generation or the next
1:15:48 generation that kind of thing and
1:15:50 obviously this doesn't happen and you
1:15:51 know c.s lewis who was a very famous
1:15:53 church um christian scholar you know he
1:15:55 said about this about oliver this course
1:15:57 he said this is the most embarrassing
1:15:59 verse in the bible
1:16:01 he said can you imagine it was the most
1:16:04 embarrassing because it didn't come true
1:16:06 you say something's gonna happen it
1:16:07 doesn't the opposite happens
1:16:09 this undermines everything doesn't it so
1:16:11 we don't have the we don't have the
1:16:12 equivalent of the olivet discourse
1:16:14 in the quran
1:16:16 or in the sunnah
1:16:17 what about unfulfilled prophecies yeah
1:16:19 they're going to happen
1:16:21 some say well you know so about this 50
1:16:23 to 1 the women will out number their
1:16:25 mental or that gold mountain they're
1:16:27 going to find in the euphrates they
1:16:29 didn't happen
1:16:30 by the way 50 to 1 can be figurative
1:16:31 according to many of the scholars it's
1:16:33 just some say it's an expression a
1:16:34 linguistic expression but even if we
1:16:36 yeah it didn't happen like that yeah
1:16:38 it's it's not now the quran hasn't been
1:16:40 lifted yet this and that there's lots of
1:16:41 things that happen which happened
1:16:42 haven't happened yet but for the most
1:16:44 vast majority of the signs of the day of
1:16:45 judgment they have materialized vast
1:16:47 majority overwhelming vast majority
1:16:52 one that's pertinent for today's times
1:16:54 is the men will wear their clothes of
1:16:56 the women women will wear the clothes of
1:16:58 the men yeah
1:17:00 yeah because this is happening around us
1:17:01 oh yeah yeah yeah so yeah yeah
1:17:03 absolutely why not
1:17:06 yeah they've been happening at the time
1:17:08 yeah and there are some hadiths which
1:17:10 are like uh
1:17:11 weak but interesting
1:17:14 and yuktaf
1:17:18 that woman will be basically lesbianism
1:17:19 and homosexuality will be
1:17:22 you know widespread that literally a man
1:17:24 will be sufficed with a man and a woman
1:17:26 will be suffice with another
1:17:28 woman this isn't
1:17:30 uh tabaran is uh ozot i think
1:17:35 but it's the the chain is a little bit
1:17:36 weak
1:17:37 there's interesting things like that is
1:17:39 yeah you're fine but you don't need to
1:17:41 go to the weekends because the strong
1:17:50 my death and then the conquest of
1:17:51 jerusalem
1:17:54 and you know all these countries
1:17:56 of
1:17:59 and all these countries which are
1:18:00 mentioned like how could the prophet
1:18:01 know that islam is going to go there
1:18:03 egypt
1:18:04 yemen levant
1:18:07 india come on you're in you're in a
1:18:09 small stretch of land in
1:18:11 in arabia how did you know that and by
1:18:12 the way what's really interesting is in
1:18:14 the book of deuteronomy chapter 21
1:18:17 i think in the last chapter maybe a
1:18:19 verse maybe chapter verse 20 or 21
1:18:20 itself
1:18:22 sorry verse chapter 18 verse 20 21 yeah
1:18:25 it mentions that one of the signs of a
1:18:27 true prophet is that his prophecies will
1:18:28 come true
1:18:31 that's how so it's telling christians
1:18:32 how do you distinguish between a true
1:18:33 prophet and the false prophet is saying
1:18:35 that if their prophecies come true then
1:18:36 they're true
1:18:38 you can't argue against these prophecies
1:18:40 i've never seen anyone successfully
1:18:42 argue against any of these prophecies
1:18:44 the the strongest arguments they come
1:18:45 with is all these unfulfilled prophecies
1:18:46 well this is the strongest argument they
1:18:48 come with
1:18:49 which is a fallacy actually
1:18:52 so prophecies are very and you know even
1:18:54 tamiya mentions this in the what
1:18:57 and so does uh what you call him um
1:19:03 they both mention
1:19:04 that it's especially when you're doing
1:19:06 doubts no muslims that prophecies are a
1:19:08 strong way of doing it so this was
1:19:09 something which had
1:19:11 the widespread support of intellectuals
1:19:13 on both like humbly and ashadi schools
1:19:17 that mentioning prophecies especially to
1:19:18 non-arab speakers he mentions this in
1:19:20 bahalani he says if you if you if you
1:19:22 mention prophecies to arabic speakers
1:19:24 this is an easy way you don't need to
1:19:25 explain much the prophet said this is
1:19:27 going to happen it happened
1:19:29 you know
1:19:30 and even tamiya mentions the mongols in
1:19:32 fact he says one of the prophecies is
1:19:34 the invasion of the mongols and he
1:19:35 mentioned some hadith in the kitab and
1:19:38 that you're reading so that the
1:19:40 prophecies are so many that i can't even
1:19:42 go through it's
1:19:43 very interesting but
1:19:45 you read the book because he makes a
1:19:46 good argument to show that actually the
1:19:48 prophet was the only one who had such
1:19:49 accurate prophecies
1:19:51 in history
1:19:52 no even get nostradamus get this person
1:19:56 they've all we can see that their their
1:19:57 kalam is vague their words are vague
1:20:00 ambiguous they don't have any anywhere
1:20:02 near the explanatory scope that the
1:20:04 hadith of the prophet has
1:20:06 and then obviously
1:20:08 quickly going through this is physical
1:20:10 miracles as well we we have a lot of
1:20:12 physical miracles like
1:20:13 it's not just that we
1:20:15 believe in yani we believe in physical
1:20:17 miracles
1:20:19 but
1:20:20 he mentions the reason why for example
1:20:23 the the other prophets that came they
1:20:25 came with something visual he they came
1:20:28 with something for the people to see
1:20:30 but then when the prophet sallam came
1:20:32 the evidence it should be analyzable
1:20:35 you know in more than just a visual
1:20:37 sense because then that would give
1:20:38 privilege access to some people of
1:20:40 others
1:20:41 so yeah the physical miracles did exist
1:20:43 and i mentioned some in the k by h
1:20:44 booklet
1:20:46 like the water coming out of the
1:20:47 prophet's hands
1:20:48 you know for example like surakam and
1:20:51 malik in a situation where the the
1:20:53 horseman came and tried to attack the
1:20:54 prophet with his horse when he was going
1:20:56 from mecca to medina and then he sank
1:20:58 into the
1:20:58 into the um this the
1:21:01 ground
1:21:02 and then he realized this couldn't be
1:21:03 happening unless it was a prophet and
1:21:05 then he came and he done his shahada
1:21:07 and the prophet said to him surah malik
1:21:09 he said to him you are going to handle
1:21:11 the bracelets of
1:21:13 kisrah of the leader of the persian
1:21:15 empire and at the time of
1:21:17 he handled the same bracelets and he
1:21:18 said then the prophet saw just going to
1:21:20 happen
1:21:21 it's always when the prophet is a trend
1:21:24 when he's in a situation of severe
1:21:25 weakness he makes a prophecy about
1:21:27 strength about conquest or something
1:21:30 which shows
1:21:32 which is the pinnacle of reliance of god
1:21:35 that you're a situation where you're
1:21:36 fugitive
1:21:38 and you're saying i'm going to conquer
1:21:39 this place in that place
1:21:41 which which which exacerbates or
1:21:44 bolsters or strengthens
1:21:46 the uh the the veracity of the prophecy
1:21:50 and there's so many physical miracles
1:21:52 that are mentioned
1:21:53 which you can refer to the booklet on
1:21:54 because i mentioned it in the booklet
1:21:57 so
1:21:59 that is
1:22:00 i know it was a bit of a long one today
1:22:01 long-winded one but these are some of
1:22:02 the things we can mention and we've just
1:22:04 mentioned really the tip of the iceberg
1:22:06 but if someone is sincere you just
1:22:08 present these evidences say look these
1:22:10 are evidences now the question we go
1:22:12 back to our framework
1:22:13 probabilistically how can someone get
1:22:15 all of this right
1:22:17 how can someone
1:22:18 be in this situation where
1:22:21 their prophecies are right everything is
1:22:22 historically correct yeah the structure
1:22:24 of the quran the language of it his
1:22:26 character and then you now is he is he a
1:22:29 true prophet or is he does he lying
1:22:31 if we're not just saying look at his
1:22:33 character although that's a very
1:22:34 important part of it we're saying look
1:22:36 at these evidences as well
1:22:39 and with that we conclude i know it's
1:22:40 been a long one but
1:22:42 it was an important one we changed the
1:22:43 scenery for you guys
1:22:45 for reasons which maybe we'll tell you
1:22:47 about one day
1:22:48 and that was uh how to prove the
1:22:51 prophecies of the old
1:22:53 the the veracity of the prophet of
1:22:54 prophet muhammad
1:22:56 and until next time