Hamza Tzortzis Dismantles William Lane Craig (2020-07-10)

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Summary of Hamza Tzortzis Dismantles William Lane Craig

This summary is AI generated - there may be inaccuracies. *

00:00:00 [00:45:00

Hamza Tzortzis argues that the biblical god is not maximally forgiving, and consequently is not maximally loving. He also points out that the Islamic conception of love is based on maximal forgiveness because it just takes a human heart to repent to the divine. This perspective undermines Craig's moral duties, according to Tzortzis.

00:00:00 Hamza Tzortzis is discussing a clip from William Lane Craig in which Craig argues that the biblical god is not maximally loving. Tzortzis points out that Craig has not studied the Islamic intellectual spiritual tradition properly, and that this is problematic because Craig has been willing to be very nuanced and philosophical when it comes to philosophical ideas, but when it comes to the divine and Islamic tradition, he basically regurgitates a form of narrative that echoes someone who's been on google.

00:05:00 Hamza Tzortzis argues that the biblical god is not maximally forgiving, and consequently is not maximally loving. He also points out that the Islamic conception of love is based on maximal forgiveness because it just takes a human heart to repent to the divine and this is why in the Christian tradition because of John 3:16 because of the sacrifice and the atonement, what the biblical narrative is saying is that human sin limits god's mercy.
00:10:00 Hamza Tzortzis argues that the concept of God in Islam and Christianity are very different, with the Islamic concept of God being morally defective. He asks William Lane Craig to clarify his conception of love, and Craig responds that love is to love goodness, mercy, and kindness.
00:15:00 , Hamza Tzortzis deconstructs William Lane Craig's theology, which he argues is not maximally perfect. Craig's teachings on love and mercy are contrasted with Ali Ghazali's, who argues that allah is loving and content with creation. This perspective undermines Craig's moral duties, according to Tzortzis.
00:20:00 Hamza Tzortzis argues that the god of the Quran does not have a special love for sinners, contrary to the teachings of Christianity. He also points out that this doctrine undermines John 3:16, which states that God loves the good and the bad alike.
00:25:00 Hamza Tzortzis discusses John 3:16, which he believes shows that there is no maximum forgiveness in the biblical tradition. He goes on to say that this contradicts the traditional Christian belief that human sin limits God's mercy. He then suggests that the more loving God is, the more Muslims should talk about the topic.
00:30:00 Hamza Tzortzis argues that throughout history, the Christian tradition has always been associated with bloodshed and killing of minorities. He cites Abraham Ibn Ezra, a Jewish poet and philosopher, who wrote about the difference between the love of Allah in Islam and the love of God in Christianity. Tzortzis also points to scholar Rabia al-Adawiyah, who wrote about the love of Allah in a poem. He argues that this demonstrates the difference between the God of the Quran and the God of the Bible.
00:35:00 Hamza Tzortzis dismantles William Lane Craig's arguments against Islam, stating that Craig's conception of God is vastly different from the conceptions of God in both the Islamic and Christian traditions. He argues that both approaches are complementary and that it is important to have discussions on the concept of God in Islam and Christianity.
00:40:00 Hamza Tzortzis, a Muslim scholar, discusses how the love of allah is central to Islamic tradition and how Christians who claim to have a loving relationship with God are actually wrong. He encourages Christians to study Islamic tradition and understand who allah is before critiquing the religion.
00:45:00 Hamza Tzortzis debunks popular Christian theologian William Lane Craig by pointing out that many of Craig's arguments against Islam are based on faulty logic and evidence.

Full transcript with timestamps: CLICK TO EXPAND

0:00:01 assalamu alaikum brothers and sisters 0:00:04 and friends welcome to 0:00:05 a another livestream this one is going 0:00:07 to be a 0:00:09 very very interesting one today i'm 0:00:10 being joined by her brother hamza 0:00:12 islamic bro well salam rahmatullahu 0:00:25 very very good and very excited as well 0:00:26 bro this is going to be a very important 0:00:28 live stream 0:00:29 and the reason is bro because 0:00:32 you know throughout history christian 0:00:33 missionaries have made a 0:00:35 objective and goal of their lives to 0:00:37 misrepresent islam through 0:00:39 through poor translations of the quran 0:00:42 you know 0:00:42 misrepresenting certain concepts and 0:00:44 ideas about the deen 0:00:45 and now we find individuals even today 0:00:47 in the 21st century 0:00:49 respected individuals professors who are 0:00:52 again misrepresenting some core 0:00:53 fundamentals of islam just to 0:00:55 paint that negative perception now in 0:00:58 particular what we're going to be 0:00:59 discussing today 0:01:00 is a clip by dr william lane craig which 0:01:03 has been circulating again i 0:01:05 you remind you the one that she told me 0:01:06 is quite an old clip 0:01:08 that was there a few years ago but it's 0:01:10 been recirculating again 0:01:11 where he speaks about allah and he 0:01:14 speaks about the love of allah mentioned 0:01:16 in the quran and compares it to 0:01:18 the love of god in christianity now 0:01:21 we're going to go through the whole clip 0:01:23 and we're going to break it down in a 0:01:24 second 0:01:24 and we're going to get your thoughts on 0:01:26 it and highlight why craig's view 0:01:28 is incorrect it's either that he hasn't 0:01:30 read the quran or understood it properly 0:01:32 or it's 0:01:33 he's it's that he's deliberately 0:01:35 misrepresenting whichever the of the two 0:01:37 is we're not going to make that we're 0:01:38 not going to make that judgment but 0:01:39 we're going to put the facts on the 0:01:40 table for people to see for themselves 0:01:42 inshallah 0:01:42 but before we do that hamza why don't 0:01:44 you give us a summary bro 0:01:46 of what we're going to be discussing 0:01:49 yeah before i do that i would like to 0:01:50 basically say that you know we have to 0:01:53 have some form of intellectual humility 0:01:55 and gratitude as well at the same time 0:01:57 because dr william craig has been 0:01:59 responsible 0:02:01 for reviving powerful 0:02:04 islamic philosophical arguments for the 0:02:06 existence of god 0:02:08 and i personally have benefited 0:02:11 a lot from his work and he is referenced 0:02:16 in my book the divine reality and 0:02:19 for that we should show some form of 0:02:21 intellectual humility 0:02:23 and also gratitude 0:02:26 notwithstanding it's very important to 0:02:30 highlight very carefully that 0:02:33 i remember dr william named craig 0:02:36 mentioning 0:02:37 the concept of god in islam and 0:02:39 christianity i think 0:02:41 12 years ago and it and it struck me 0:02:44 and i've always wanted to respond in 0:02:46 some way 0:02:47 and alhamdulillah you gave me this 0:02:50 opportunity may allah bless you 0:02:52 and we can do this together and the 0:02:55 first thing i like to say is 0:02:57 dr william lane craig has obviously not 0:03:01 studied the islamic intellectual 0:03:02 spiritual tradition properly 0:03:04 he hasn't gone into the tafasir 0:03:08 the exegetical works of the verses that 0:03:10 he is referring to 0:03:12 he in my view hasn't studied 0:03:16 the normative classical creeds 0:03:19 and the commentaries associated with 0:03:21 them concerning the conception of the 0:03:23 divine reality 0:03:25 in islam and 0:03:28 this is problematic because 0:03:32 he's been willing to be very nuanced 0:03:35 and philosophical when it comes to 0:03:37 philosophical ideas 0:03:39 existential ideas theo philosophical 0:03:42 ideas 0:03:42 but when it comes to the divine and 0:03:44 islamic tradition 0:03:47 he basically regurgitates 0:03:51 a form of narrative that echoes someone 0:03:54 who's been on google and does some basic 0:03:56 searches 0:03:58 and this has to change and hopefully by 0:04:01 the end of this 0:04:02 video it would evoke something within 0:04:05 him to engage positively with the 0:04:07 islamic intellectual spiritual tradition 0:04:09 and hopefully engage with us in order 0:04:11 for us to have a discussion on this 0:04:12 topic 0:04:13 so the thing i really want to say is 0:04:15 this 0:04:16 there is an argument against dr 0:04:19 craig's argument and it's based on 0:04:23 three premises two premises and a 0:04:24 conclusion number one 0:04:27 for god to be maximally loving 0:04:31 he has to be maximally forgiving 0:04:35 number two the biblical god is not 0:04:38 maximally forgiving three 0:04:42 therefore the biblical god is not 0:04:45 maximally loving and we're gonna unpack 0:04:48 this i think the first premise doesn't 0:04:49 have to be discussed because if someone 0:04:51 is maximally loving 0:04:52 they have to be maximally forgiving 0:04:54 repeat those three again just so 0:04:55 everyone's on this 0:04:56 yeah so premise number one 0:04:59 for god to be maximally loving 0:05:02 it entails or he has to be maximally 0:05:05 forgiving 0:05:06 and this is not a controversial premise 0:05:08 because forgiveness 0:05:09 is the language of love number two 0:05:13 and this is the controversial premise 0:05:16 the biblical god 0:05:17 according to william lane craig is not 0:05:20 maximally forgiving 0:05:22 number three therefore the biblical god 0:05:24 is not maximally loving 0:05:25 now why why is the biblical god not 0:05:28 maximally loving 0:05:29 so not maximally forgiving and therefore 0:05:31 he's not max me loving 0:05:33 it's very simple number one god's love 0:05:36 according to a biblical narrative 0:05:38 is rooted in suffering god's love in a 0:05:42 biblical narrative 0:05:44 is rooted in forgiving humanity 0:05:47 outside of the relation of the human 0:05:49 being and the divine 0:05:51 and it's based on an event that 0:05:54 supposedly had to happen 0:05:56 and not only that it's based on you 0:05:59 accepting the event 0:06:00 actually happened it's not rooted in 0:06:02 your relation to the divine your heart 0:06:04 being sincere and asking forgiveness to 0:06:06 the divine 0:06:08 construct construct contrastingly 0:06:11 the islamic conception is 0:06:14 based on maximal forgiveness because it 0:06:16 just takes a human heart 0:06:18 to repent to the divine and this is why 0:06:22 in the christian tradition because of 0:06:24 john 3 16 because of the sacrifice and 0:06:27 the atonement 0:06:29 what the biblical narrative is saying 0:06:32 it's saying that human sin 0:06:36 limits god's mercy 0:06:40 so from this point of view william named 0:06:42 craig 0:06:43 i think he's basically being a little 0:06:45 bit of a sophist here 0:06:47 because if you really understand the 0:06:49 christian doctrine 0:06:51 then you have to admit that god is not 0:06:53 maximally forgiving if 0:06:54 not if he is not maximally forgiving 0:06:56 then how can he be 0:06:57 maximally loving because 0:07:00 to be maximally loving entails maximum 0:07:04 forgiveness as well 0:07:05 so that's the summary of what we're 0:07:07 going to be talking about we're also 0:07:08 going to be talking about the fact that 0:07:09 actually 0:07:10 have you not read that allah says about 0:07:13 himself that he is 0:07:15 he is the loving that's one of his names 0:07:17 which comes from the arabic 0:07:19 arabic word wood which means the loving 0:07:20 that is giving he is excessively loving 0:07:23 his love is so pure and so maximal that 0:07:26 it's even greater than any form of love 0:07:28 you can imagine 0:07:30 uh in in a worldly sense even a mother's 0:07:32 love because a mother she 0:07:34 needs to love god doesn't need anything 0:07:36 yet he loves 0:07:37 imagine how pure and maximal his love is 0:07:41 so have you not read that god is loving 0:07:43 have you not read that allah is a 0:07:45 man and which means the merciful 0:07:49 now interestingly from a linguistic 0:07:50 point of view indicates 0:07:52 a very intense loving mercy a boiling 0:07:56 over type of mercy and immediate mercy a 0:07:58 mercy that's so powerful that no one can 0:08:00 stop 0:08:01 and allah says that his mercy 0:08:03 encompasses everything 0:08:05 the sinner the evil doer the believer 0:08:09 the non-believer allah's intense mercy 0:08:13 and mercy in the english language is the 0:08:14 synonym for love 0:08:16 encompasses everything so 0:08:19 why are you misrepresenting the islamic 0:08:22 tradition because there are different 0:08:24 levels of love in the islamic tradition 0:08:26 different levels of mercy you have rahma 0:08:29 you have a rahim 0:08:31 you have muawadha you have all of these 0:08:33 different levels and they have specific 0:08:36 understandings 0:08:37 anyone who studied the islamic tradition 0:08:39 would have known this right 0:08:41 so you can't say god's god is not 0:08:45 his mercy is not universal his mercy is 0:08:49 um what would he what did he say 0:08:51 impartial and his mercy's 0:08:53 uh uh uh conditional that's not true 0:08:56 because allah says his 0:08:58 intense mercy is impartial because it's 0:09:01 for everybody it's universal encompasses 0:09:03 everything 0:09:04 and it's also unconditional allah is 0:09:06 merciful to you even if you disobey him 0:09:09 and as i said mercy is a cinnamon 0:09:11 synonym for love in the islamic 0:09:13 tradition 0:09:13 so this is the kind of summary of the 0:09:15 things that we want to talk about 0:09:17 he actually overlooks this you know he's 0:09:19 just referring to 0:09:20 well let's just speaking about okay he 0:09:22 loves so and so he doesn't love songs 0:09:23 from the quran and he completely 0:09:24 neglects the aspect of mercy 0:09:26 and our mercy entails love it's a part 0:09:28 of love like you said 0:09:29 and and what we're going to see as we 0:09:31 discuss this bro is that beautiful 0:09:32 balance between the love and mercy of 0:09:33 allah 0:09:34 which works in such a magnificent and 0:09:36 perfect way 0:09:37 from the perspective of what this life 0:09:39 is all about we're going to see this too 0:09:40 and it's it's 0:09:41 and if anything we're going to see how 0:09:43 the conception of love and mercy of 0:09:44 allah in islam 0:09:46 in and being in line with the objective 0:09:49 allah created reality 0:09:50 for is perfect it's completely coherent 0:09:53 one thing i want to mention though isn't 0:09:55 it very interesting that 0:09:56 you know is it is it maximum love 0:10:00 to create human beings with inherent sin 0:10:03 whereas human beings in islamic 0:10:05 tradition 0:10:06 they're created with inherent goodness 0:10:08 based on the fitra i mean 0:10:10 case closed that's like a philosophical 0:10:12 mic drop right there 0:10:13 yeah your conception of divine has 0:10:16 already 0:10:17 put a distance between humanity and the 0:10:19 divine because of sin because the wages 0:10:21 of sin is death right 0:10:22 god is so holy according to the 0:10:24 christian tradition 0:10:25 that's why you need an external type of 0:10:27 sacrifice this is not the islamic 0:10:29 tradition 0:10:30 you don't need that you are you're born 0:10:33 into goodness 0:10:34 not into inherent evil inherent sin 0:10:37 so from this point of view just on that 0:10:40 perspective 0:10:41 what is more loving like god is making 0:10:44 it harder for everybody else according 0:10:46 to the biblical narrative 0:10:47 that not only are you going to be 0:10:49 created but you're going to be created 0:10:50 distant from me 0:10:52 inherently you're going to have sin 0:10:54 which distance 0:10:55 which distance the human being from the 0:10:57 divine but allah he creates a human 0:10:59 being 0:11:00 in goodness which we call the innate 0:11:03 disposition 0:11:04 that is based on proton knowledge that 0:11:06 has proton knowledge within it which is 0:11:07 god is reality is worthy of worship and 0:11:09 we have a basic level of goodness 0:11:11 let's proceed so bro before i proceed 0:11:13 let me clarify something to the audience 0:11:15 some people have had an objection with 0:11:16 me titling the video hums of daughters 0:11:18 versus william lane craig 0:11:20 now i didn't say it was a debate 0:11:22 obviously i wanted to make the title a 0:11:23 bit spicy 0:11:24 uh just so we can get the interest and 0:11:26 inshallah this will lead to 0:11:28 a proper discussion a face-to-face 0:11:30 discussion between maybe hamza and 0:11:32 william dr william lane craig 0:11:34 after this goes live inshallah um so 0:11:36 yeah try to clarify that i never said it 0:11:38 was a debate i did clarify on the 0:11:39 community section of the page that this 0:11:41 is a discussion it's a response to the 0:11:42 reaction video 0:11:43 so apologies to anyone that uh took the 0:11:46 wrong end of the stick with 0:11:47 in regards to the title but now 0:11:48 inshallah let's continue let's play the 0:11:50 clip bro you told me when to stop and 0:11:52 then we'll analyze each section as we go 0:11:54 through 0:12:03 i think the question is better reworded 0:12:05 by saying 0:12:06 is the concept of god in islam 0:12:10 the same as the concept of god in 0:12:12 christianity 0:12:13 do we have the same understanding of god 0:12:17 and there i argued that they are worlds 0:12:19 apart 0:12:20 that the concept of god and islam and 0:12:23 christianity 0:12:24 is very very different and one of the 0:12:26 principle ways in which they are 0:12:28 different is 0:12:29 that the muslim concept of god i believe 0:12:33 is morally defective it is a morally 0:12:37 defective 0:12:38 vision of who god is as 0:12:41 the greatest conceivable being a morally 0:12:44 perfect being 0:12:45 god must be all loving 0:12:50 and this is exactly what the bible 0:12:52 teaches the bible teaches that god 0:12:54 loves sinners his love is impartial 0:12:58 it is universal it is unconditional 0:13:01 and this is a world of difference from 0:13:03 the god of the quran 0:13:05 according to the quran god does not love 0:13:09 sinners he does not love unbelievers he 0:13:12 is an 0:13:13 enemy to unbelievers god 0:13:16 in the quran only loves those who 0:13:19 first loved him okay stop here 0:13:23 okay yeah so as we said 0:13:26 you know he he he basically 0:13:28 misrepresents 0:13:30 allah in the islamic tradition god in 0:13:32 the islamic tradition 0:13:33 where he's basically saying that god 0:13:35 doesn't love 0:13:36 sinners he doesn't love those who you 0:13:39 know disobey him the wrongdoers 0:13:41 now we have to understand what does he 0:13:43 mean by love here because as we said 0:13:46 mercy is also a synonym for love so does 0:13:49 god have mercy for the disbelievers 0:13:51 absolutely we've mentioned this in the 0:13:52 beginning allah says his mercy 0:13:54 encompasses everything 0:13:55 does god have mercy for wrongdoers 0:13:57 absolutely 0:13:58 now but i also want to challenge his 0:14:00 conception of love 0:14:02 what type of love are you now talking 0:14:04 about because there are different types 0:14:05 of love 0:14:06 the islamic tradition is very nuanced 0:14:09 right we have 0:14:10 many names meanings words for love 0:14:14 and they have a particular reality now 0:14:17 you know it's easy to use the english 0:14:19 language say lava would you actually 0:14:20 mean 0:14:21 so i would i would actually ask him that 0:14:23 question because i need to think about 0:14:25 this bro 0:14:25 and and i wrote this down on my phone 0:14:27 let me just unlock the phone 0:14:29 now is it maximal love 0:14:32 to love everything the same that's the 0:14:35 big question 0:14:36 yes and this is the problem because it 0:14:39 is not maximally loving to love 0:14:40 everything the same 0:14:42 can i love goodness the same way as i 0:14:45 love badness 0:14:46 evil in actual fact would it be loving 0:14:49 for me to love evil 0:14:52 i mean let's think about that right so 0:14:54 think about this 0:14:56 perfect love is to love goodness 0:14:59 to love mercy to love kindness to love 0:15:01 connecting with one's creator to love 0:15:03 peace and in it follows that if you love 0:15:07 something you have to hate its opposite 0:15:10 which means you have to hate evil you 0:15:13 have to hate the opposition to love 0:15:15 you have to hate malevolence you have to 0:15:17 hate polytheism 0:15:19 you have to hate chaos and destruction 0:15:21 are you saying 0:15:22 it's perfect maximal love 0:15:26 to love that which is a barrier to love 0:15:29 i mean this doesn't make sense because 0:15:32 if if you love everything 0:15:33 then you really don't love anything at 0:15:35 all 0:15:38 yeah you you've actually summarized it 0:15:40 better than the while where i was 0:15:41 summarizing it 0:15:42 so that's the feel for this yes the 0:15:44 second point is on terms 0:15:45 like god doesn't love the sinner well 0:15:47 what does that really mean 0:15:49 does it mean god doesn't love the 0:15:51 intrigue the human being what makes a 0:15:52 human being the intrinsic value of the 0:15:54 human being 0:15:55 absolutely not what does allah say about 0:15:57 the human being 0:15:58 he has aurora he has a soul he has a 0:16:00 fitra and in that fitra there is 0:16:02 goodness that innate disposition has 0:16:03 goodness 0:16:04 does god hate that no let me tell you 0:16:07 what god doesn't like 0:16:09 god doesn't like the way the human being 0:16:13 has identity 0:16:14 identified themselves by virtue of their 0:16:17 state of being i know this is a bit 0:16:18 philosophical but you have to understand 0:16:20 this 0:16:20 so god doesn't like how we've identified 0:16:22 ourselves by virtue of our state of 0:16:25 being 0:16:25 meaning how we relate to ourselves how 0:16:28 we relate to others and how we relate to 0:16:30 the creator 0:16:31 so if my relation to myself and my 0:16:34 relation to others and my relation to 0:16:35 the creator 0:16:36 is not good is evil why would god 0:16:40 like that that's not an expression a 0:16:43 match of maximum perfection 0:16:44 yes and even though goku would not love 0:16:46 that he still has another type of love 0:16:48 if you like which is he 0:16:50 still has mercy for the one who relates 0:16:52 to himself 0:16:53 relates to others and relates to the 0:16:55 divine in an evil way 0:16:57 so this is a nuanced discussion and 0:17:00 wouldn't mean craig unfortunately did 0:17:03 not give islam 0:17:04 jew justice especially since you know he 0:17:07 is grateful for the likes of ali ghazali 0:17:09 the 11th century theologian and what 0:17:11 baffles me habibi yeah 0:17:13 imran what baffles me ali ghazali 0:17:16 himself he wrote his ihea 0:17:18 his compendium sorry his revival of the 0:17:21 religious sciences 0:17:22 in the 36 volume what is he right about 0:17:26 he writes about muhammad love intimacy 0:17:30 contentment with allah subhanahu wa 0:17:33 ta'ala 0:17:34 and that book he talks about he affirms 0:17:36 allah is 0:17:38 loving and he loves and they can be a 0:17:39 loving relationship 0:17:41 between creation and the creator 0:17:44 that's his own teacher the william lane 0:17:47 creek's teacher 0:17:49 ali ghazali wrote about this you didn't 0:17:52 have to go too far to understand that 0:17:53 allah is 0:17:55 loving and he says that his mercy 0:17:57 encompasses everything 0:17:59 so from that point of view i would even 0:18:03 say that the way his understanding god's 0:18:05 love is not maximally perfect 0:18:08 it's absolutely bro and just let me just 0:18:10 i guess paint that piece 0:18:12 in a slightly different way so we can 0:18:13 really get the point across to people 0:18:15 it's like it's what we're saying is from 0:18:16 the islamic perspective allah's 0:18:19 maximally perfect love is in line with 0:18:20 his names and attributes number one 0:18:22 and number two it's in line with the 0:18:24 objective that he's created this world 0:18:25 for 0:18:26 allah tells us for example that he 0:18:28 created life and death to test which of 0:18:30 us is best in deeds 0:18:31 therefore god has created us in this 0:18:33 world he's made us agents with free will 0:18:35 and he wants us to do good and stay away 0:18:37 from evil now if god has 0:18:39 created us for that reason then why 0:18:41 would this very same god who is claiming 0:18:43 is maximally perfect and makes me loving 0:18:45 at the same time express his love to 0:18:48 creation in a way which undermines that 0:18:50 whole project 0:18:51 because if he loves if he loves the 0:18:53 sinner or the hitler as much as he loves 0:18:55 the mother teresa or the saint 0:18:57 well then where is the objective where 0:18:59 is the where is the motivation for the 0:19:01 the saint to continue to be good and to 0:19:02 continue on that path and where where is 0:19:04 the motivation bro for the 0:19:06 the the the sinner and the hitler to 0:19:08 leave the sin and to become 0:19:10 good right i really believe 0:19:13 when allah says he does not love the 0:19:14 disbeliever for example in the third 0:19:16 chapter of the quran 0:19:17 verse 32 where he says he does not love 0:19:19 the disbeliever this in a way 0:19:20 is acts as a motivation for the 0:19:23 disbeliever to 0:19:24 leave that state like you mentioned and 0:19:26 adopt the state of 0:19:27 absolute belief right and not just that 0:19:29 it also means that it doesn't mean 0:19:31 though that 0:19:31 allah doesn't have another intense mercy 0:19:33 for the disbeliever of course allah has 0:19:35 intense mercy for the disbeliever 0:19:38 because remember we said there's many 0:19:39 grades of mercy and love in the islamic 0:19:41 tradition it's very newest but bro 0:19:42 you've you've opened a massive can of 0:19:44 worms philosophical ones which is 0:19:46 amazing not for us 0:19:47 for the dr craig conception of theology 0:19:51 moral duties don't make sense anymore 0:19:55 yes because what is that that pressing 0:19:58 ought that we ought to do something if 0:20:00 allah loves the sinner 0:20:01 everybody in that way then 0:20:04 you know in the christian tradition i'm 0:20:06 fine i'll go kill a thousand people 0:20:08 right and i just believe that jesus 0:20:09 sacrifices his life for me no problem 0:20:12 then i'm okay as you said yesterday 0:20:15 it's a form of you tell me yeah 0:20:17 religious nihilism that was 0:20:21 [Music]0:20:23 which is absolutely really really really 0:20:24 powerful so 0:20:26 yeah but also also bro you know when i 0:20:29 and this is another way i want people to 0:20:30 think of it when allah says he does not 0:20:32 love the disbeliever 0:20:34 this is allah's love being expressed to 0:20:36 the disbeliever in a way 0:20:38 because it's his loving mercy which 0:20:40 makes the disbeliever think oh my god my 0:20:42 god does not love me 0:20:43 it hits him deep inside his fitrah and 0:20:46 this will encourage him to rectify him 0:20:47 that's a very good point 0:20:49 you could articulate this way as well so 0:20:52 say say a disbeliever someone who 0:20:55 doesn't who rejects the truth is 0:20:56 listening to this 0:20:57 so allah has intense mercy for you 0:21:01 but you won't have a the the 0:21:04 relationship of special love with him 0:21:06 unless you accept the truth and you 0:21:09 accept the fact that he's the only deity 0:21:10 worthy of worship and that muhammad 0:21:12 the final prophet that should be 0:21:14 motivating because it's not 0:21:16 it's not from that point of view that 0:21:18 you are discarded intrinsically as a 0:21:20 human being 0:21:21 but the way you've identified yourself 0:21:23 and how you relate to yourself 0:21:25 and others and allah is something that 0:21:28 is not loved at all 0:21:30 and if you want to be in a state of 0:21:31 being that is love and you enter to that 0:21:33 loving relation with allah 0:21:35 then you have to do x y and z so yeah 0:21:38 absolutely absolutely so 0:21:39 i think we should just going back on the 0:21:41 point that if you love everything 0:21:43 the same you don't love anything at all 0:21:45 yeah you've undermined the whole human 0:21:47 project from that perspective 0:21:48 and and that in itself would be a a sign 0:21:51 that 0:21:51 well you in a way you'll be claiming 0:21:53 that the maximally perfect being is not 0:21:54 maximally perfect 0:21:56 yeah that was the way he expressed his 0:21:57 love to creation yeah because yeah a 0:21:59 maximum perfect being doesn't love 0:22:00 everything the same 0:22:01 yeah and and and yes does the maximum 0:22:04 perfect being have 0:22:05 mercy for everything absolutely just 0:22:06 like allah says he has mercy for 0:22:07 everything the sinner the evil doer the 0:22:09 believer 0:22:10 but does allah have that special love 0:22:12 for everything the same of course not 0:22:14 because if that's the case you don't 0:22:15 really love anything at all 0:22:16 because as we mentioned maximal perfect 0:22:18 love means that you love goodness 0:22:20 and therefore you should hate the 0:22:22 opposite of that which is 0:22:23 evil so from that point of view i think 0:22:26 his 0:22:27 assumption is false maybe we should 0:22:29 continue the video 0:22:30 let's continue let me play me a second 0:22:36 that his love rises no higher than the 0:22:39 sort of love that jesus said 0:22:41 tax collectors and sinners exhibit 0:22:44 they love those who love them and that's 0:22:48 the kind of love 0:22:49 that the god of the quran exhibits 0:22:52 so the quran assures us of god 0:22:55 it's just so stop by this sorry and the 0:22:59 this we have to hold we we have to just 0:23:02 say no here this this is this is almost 0:23:05 uh 0:23:06 cheeky how can you say the god 0:23:09 of islam his love is like the love of 0:23:12 the tax collector the sinner what we've 0:23:14 said already 0:23:15 undermines that because god's mercy and 0:23:17 mercy is a synonym of love he's intense 0:23:19 mercy's for everything the sinner 0:23:21 the evildoer and the good one but i want 0:23:23 to mention something here 0:23:24 in actual fact he is a victim of his own 0:23:26 criticism 0:23:27 why because remember maximum love enters 0:23:31 maximum forgiveness 0:23:32 good in the biblical tradition is not 0:23:34 maximally forgiving 0:23:36 his forgiveness in other words the way 0:23:38 he expresses his love 0:23:41 is worse than any type of human 0:23:43 forgiveness 0:23:44 bro if if i did you wrong and you said 0:23:47 to me 0:23:47 i would only forgive you if someone's 0:23:50 son is sacrificed 0:23:52 and you have to believe that event 0:23:54 happened yeah 0:23:56 and by you accepting that event i will 0:23:58 forgive you 0:24:00 is that forgiveness well that's not 0:24:02 that's not adequate for limited human 0:24:04 beings how can you apply that to the 0:24:06 creator of the heavens 0:24:06 thank you very much this is what you 0:24:08 call a mic drop philosophically it's not 0:24:10 mike it's a pen 0:24:11 but you get my point yes i think what 0:24:14 craig has done here 0:24:16 is philosophically theologically 0:24:18 spiritually 0:24:20 unacceptable yeah it's it's it's 0:24:22 bordering 0:24:23 literally a joke and it's unfortunate 0:24:24 that you would and this is one of the 0:24:26 things that really shocked me bro 0:24:28 was someone of his caliber would would 0:24:31 would make such statements publicly 0:24:34 uh not doing his research you know that 0:24:36 and you see this over and over again and 0:24:38 that's what shocking is fun 0:24:39 but anyway let's finish off what you're 0:24:40 saying let me play the rest of the clip 0:24:41 for you 0:24:44 dad's love for the god-fearing 0:24:47 and the good doers but he has no love 0:24:51 for sinners and unbelievers the 0:24:54 quran says that god does not love the 0:24:56 very people 0:24:58 that john 3 16 says 0:25:02 god loves so much that he sent his only 0:25:05 son 0:25:06 to die for them while we were yet 0:25:08 enemies 0:25:09 christ died for us so 0:25:12 this is over here bro yep 0:25:15 okay so john 3 16 that god loves us so 0:25:17 much that he basically sacrificed his 0:25:19 only son for us right 0:25:21 now there's another dimension to this 0:25:23 which doesn't 0:25:24 directly relate to what we're talking 0:25:26 about but it's still very significant 0:25:27 and important because it 0:25:28 it you know john 3 16 is supposed to be 0:25:31 this amazing thing and that you know the 0:25:32 christians have a monopoly on a loving 0:25:34 relationship with the divine 0:25:36 i am sorry this is not the case at all 0:25:38 john 3 16 0:25:40 actually shows that there is no maximum 0:25:43 forgiveness and maximal love in the 0:25:44 biblical tradition 0:25:45 with regards to the conception of the 0:25:47 divine why am i saying this 0:25:48 because if if god sacrifices son 0:25:52 for human sin then isn't me not 0:25:55 believing in christianity 0:25:56 a sin me being a muslim isn't that a sin 0:26:00 so by virtue of that i should be okay 0:26:03 right yep didn't jesus sacrifice 0:26:06 wasn't he sacrificed for me as well yeah 0:26:08 me being a muslim is that 0:26:10 sinful according to the christian 0:26:11 tradition mainstream biblical 0:26:13 christianity would say 0:26:14 iman hamza you know you guys are sinners 0:26:17 because one you have inherent sin and 0:26:20 you don't follow jesus you follow islam 0:26:22 which 0:26:22 to many christians would say it's not 0:26:24 the truth 0:26:27 and that's fine but then i would say 0:26:30 well didn't jesus die and get sacrificed 0:26:32 for me for this sin if they say yes 0:26:36 then do i have to accept jesus they will 0:26:39 say no no no no 0:26:40 because it's a gift you have to accept 0:26:42 the gift 0:26:43 you have to accept they actually 0:26:44 happened but for me 0:26:46 doesn't that really devalue the 0:26:48 intrinsic nature of the sacrifice right 0:26:52 yeah going back to craig's original 0:26:53 point god's love must be just across the 0:26:56 board equal and the same at all times 0:26:58 yeah that should apply to you as well 0:27:01 it should apply to the manifestation of 0:27:05 his love which is the sacrifice 0:27:07 if the manifestation of his love which 0:27:09 is the sacrifice doesn't have intrinsic 0:27:11 value 0:27:12 because it's also contingent on me 0:27:14 accepting it 0:27:15 which is a historical event which is 0:27:16 based on a text that is historically 0:27:18 inaccurate has textual uh integrity 0:27:21 problems x y and z 0:27:23 then how is that maximal love 0:27:26 and and how does that make the event so 0:27:28 special when now 0:27:30 not only must the event happen but i 0:27:33 have to acknowledge 0:27:34 the event and accept the event at the 0:27:35 same time 0:27:37 so i would say that's in some way 0:27:39 obviously needs more theological and 0:27:40 philosophical unpacking 0:27:42 but in some way it really diminishes 0:27:45 what you're saying about john 3 0:27:47 16 and in actual fact let's go back to 0:27:50 the whole forgiveness 0:27:51 maximum love and tells maximal 0:27:53 forgiveness well how is this maximally 0:27:55 forgiving 0:27:56 he is well firstly he's not even 0:27:58 maximally just 0:27:59 right because he is blaming someone else 0:28:03 he is blaming someone that doesn't 0:28:05 deserve the blame 0:28:06 and he is torturing and he is 0:28:08 sacrificing someone 0:28:10 that didn't that doesn't deserve the the 0:28:13 torturing and the sacrifice 0:28:15 so how is that maximal forgiveness and 0:28:17 maximal justice 0:28:18 the other thing is it's not maximal 0:28:21 forgiveness because the forgiveness 0:28:22 of me as a human being is contingent on 0:28:25 an event outside of my relation to the 0:28:27 divine 0:28:28 and it's contingent on me accepting it 0:28:31 but with regards to the islamic 0:28:33 tradition maximal forgiveness 0:28:35 is manifested itself why because it just 0:28:37 requires me and my heart to do 0:28:39 tawba is to turn back to god 0:28:43 to ask for his forgiveness i don't need 0:28:45 a sacrifice outside of me 0:28:48 and because the wages of sin is death 0:28:50 sin is so 0:28:52 bad that you know you have to have some 0:28:54 kind of blood sacrifice yeah 0:28:56 which really the biblical tradition is 0:28:58 saying that god that human sin 0:29:00 limits god's mercy and that's and that's 0:29:03 not the islamic tradition 0:29:05 so which is more a loving and forgiving 0:29:07 god 0:29:08 god which one is why and this is why 0:29:11 muslims 0:29:12 should talk about this morning we don't 0:29:14 unfortunately because we have a very 0:29:16 deep 0:29:17 loving type of tradition and it's 0:29:20 manifested in our history i want to read 0:29:22 something to you bro just very quickly 0:29:23 yeah 0:29:24 uh it's actually a historical narrative 0:29:26 it's based on a jewish poet 0:29:28 right a jewish poet you know our jewish 0:29:30 cousins 0:29:32 yeah let me tell one of our jewish 0:29:33 cousins what he said 0:29:35 brothers and sisters while hamza is 0:29:37 bringing it up 0:29:39 yeah sure if you have any questions 0:29:40 please hold off i'll tell you guys we're 0:29:42 gonna do questions at the end inshallah 0:29:43 uh so just repost them if you've posted 0:29:45 them already and we'll address them in 0:29:46 china make sure to share this 0:29:48 on your social medias on your lives 0:29:50 wherever you wherever you can share this 0:29:51 inshallah so other people get access to 0:29:53 this too inshallah 0:29:54 come bro sorry so in the christian 0:29:55 tradition the holy spirit is supposed to 0:29:57 be working right 0:29:58 in you know in the in the present tense 0:30:00 and throughout history 0:30:02 but every time the christians have 0:30:03 always been in power especially the 0:30:05 medieval catholic church 0:30:07 it's it's it's not being very loving at 0:30:08 all i mean 0:30:11 we don't have to talk about when 0:30:12 christianity was in power what happened 0:30:14 yeah 0:30:15 look what happened in uh in spain we 0:30:18 know what happened in spain what was it 0:30:19 called it was called the 0:30:22 uh forgot the name for it the the 0:30:25 inquisition 0:30:26 right killing the jews and the muslims 0:30:28 right and the jews had to go to 0:30:30 enstable and turkey and the jewish rabbi 0:30:33 he says come to the land of the turks 0:30:35 rich are the fruits of the earth we live 0:30:36 in freedom and peace right kind of thing 0:30:39 so every time you know the christian 0:30:41 tradition 0:30:42 or the church or the holy spirit has 0:30:44 been manifesting itself politically 0:30:46 right throughout the ages 0:30:47 it has been bloodshed and killing of 0:30:49 minorities and stuff what's going on 0:30:50 here 0:30:51 and it's interesting that a famous 0:30:53 jewish shade sage and poet 0:30:55 abraham ibn ezra he wrote the following 0:30:57 when he was living 0:30:58 i believe under the islamic influence 0:31:01 islamic authority he said 0:31:03 the muslims sing of love and passion 0:31:07 the christians of war and revenge 0:31:10 the greeks of wisdom and devices the 0:31:13 indians of parables and riddles 0:31:15 and the israelites songs and praises to 0:31:18 the lord of the hosts 0:31:19 so you know poetry is like a mirror of 0:31:21 what's happening from a historical 0:31:22 perspective 0:31:23 and the other thing i want to say is we 0:31:25 had our 0:31:27 kind of saintly figures our pious 0:31:28 predecessors our pious masters 0:31:30 especially in the early 0:31:31 three generations the love of god loving 0:31:34 god was an act of worship 0:31:36 right because worshiping allah means 0:31:38 what to know him to love him to obey him 0:31:40 and to direct and singulate all acts of 0:31:42 worship to god alone 0:31:44 and there was a famous uh scholar if you 0:31:47 like uh 0:31:48 it was a woman a sheikha her name is 0:31:50 rabia 0:31:51 al-adawiyah she wrote a view for poem 0:31:54 and she wrote it about the love of of of 0:31:57 allah it's very moving she said 0:31:59 two ways i love thee selfishly 0:32:04 and next as worthy is of thee 0:32:07 to selfish love that i do not 0:32:10 say think on thee with every thought tis 0:32:14 purest love when thou dost raise 0:32:17 to veil to my adoring gaze not mind the 0:32:20 praise 0:32:21 in that or this thine is the praise in 0:32:24 both 0:32:25 i wish it's a really powerful goosebumps 0:32:28 and and it's it's throughout our 0:32:30 tradition we've had 0:32:32 scholarly people pious people especially 0:32:34 the early three generations 0:32:36 talking about the love of the divine 0:32:38 talking about all of these amazing 0:32:39 things so 0:32:40 it's very important to understand that 0:32:43 the idea of god's love and us 0:32:45 loving god has manifested itself 0:32:47 throughout history 0:32:48 through our poetry throughout our 0:32:50 literature i mentioned al ghazali when 0:32:51 he talks about divine love 0:32:53 what about the student of ibin tamiya 0:32:56 when he basically wrote you know he's 0:32:58 called the heart surgeon and i'm not 0:32:59 talking about medical 0:33:00 or we're talking about spiritual heart 0:33:02 he talks about the love of allah 0:33:04 right and being close to allah and 0:33:06 loving him you know 0:33:07 it's an aspect of the key aspect of 0:33:10 worship to have ikhlas which means 0:33:12 sincerity to do the act of worship for 0:33:14 allah alone 0:33:14 and one aspect of the class is due to do 0:33:16 it because he's worthy of it and to do 0:33:18 it because you love 0:33:19 him right so love it permits our 0:33:22 tradition you know if parents are 0:33:23 tradition so 0:33:25 yeah it's just unfortunate that you know 0:33:26 people as popular you know 0:33:28 they should have an epistemic duty yes 0:33:31 an intellectual duty to at least 0:33:33 allow the tradition to speak for itself 0:33:35 from that point yeah and broad honestly 0:33:36 like when you think about the 0:33:38 just the mercy of allah even to the 0:33:40 sinner the one that's done all this evil 0:33:42 and wrong bro 0:33:43 allah's loving mercy encompasses them 0:33:45 allah reminds them allah calls them back 0:33:48 allah encourages them by telling them 0:33:49 that he does not love them 0:33:51 you know allah encourages them by 0:33:52 telling them who he does love 0:33:54 allah gives them time on this earth bro 0:33:56 he doesn't just kill them or take their 0:33:57 life immediately as soon as they commit 0:33:58 a sin or do something 0:33:59 and interestingly that is a 0:34:01 manifestation of intense mercy 0:34:03 and as i said mercy is a cinnamon for 0:34:05 love in the english language so allah 0:34:06 has a tense mercy for you 0:34:08 that he would say to you your state of 0:34:10 being how you relate to yourself 0:34:12 others and how you relate to god is 0:34:14 something that he does not love 0:34:15 subhanallah so what would make you think 0:34:17 i need to state change my state of being 0:34:20 yes as simple as that and bro and all of 0:34:22 this look how beautifully it's in line 0:34:25 with the objective of this existence as 0:34:27 well that allah is not creating a 0:34:29 situation now by some sort of sacrifice 0:34:31 which 0:34:31 which brings into question his justice 0:34:34 you know brings into question his uh his 0:34:36 forgiveness 0:34:37 it all just pans out in such a beautiful 0:34:39 and coherent way subhanla 0:34:40 you know thinking about it absolutely 0:34:43 let's let's finish 0:34:44 let's finish off if he's not finished 0:34:46 already he's pretty much finished but 0:34:48 let's finish off what he was what he was 0:34:50 saying each other 0:34:52 huge difference between the god of the 0:34:54 quran 0:34:55 and the god of the bible the heavenly 0:34:58 father revealed by jesus 0:35:00 love sinners loves unbelievers 0:35:03 wants him to come to him his love is 0:35:05 universal impartial 0:35:07 uh and unconditional but 0:35:10 the god of the quran his 0:35:14 love is partial it is 0:35:18 selective and um it has to be earned 0:35:22 it is conditional only those who earn it 0:35:26 will receive it so this is a vastly 0:35:29 different conception of god so 0:35:31 i would agree with those who say that 0:35:34 the god of 0:35:35 muhammad is not the god of jesus christ 0:35:38 he's 0:35:39 not the god of the bible okay so in fact 0:35:42 i would say 0:35:44 yep yeah well he would we've already 0:35:46 dealt with those points 0:35:47 uh just to go back on the point when he 0:35:49 says the god of islam his 0:35:50 love is partial selective and earned 0:35:52 again that's not true 0:35:54 god's intense mercy and remember mercy 0:35:56 is a cinnamon of love in the english 0:35:58 language god's mercy is impartial it's 0:36:01 for everybody 0:36:02 sinner and and believer disbeliever good 0:36:05 doer et cetera 0:36:06 it's not selective sorry hamza can you 0:36:08 just repeat what craig said because i 0:36:10 don't think the guys could hear the last 0:36:11 year yes so basically what he said he 0:36:13 said the god in islam 0:36:15 his love is partial selective and has to 0:36:17 be earned 0:36:18 and i'm saying but we already dealt with 0:36:20 that because mercy 0:36:22 allah being the intensely merciful 0:36:25 mercy is a synonym for love and allah 0:36:27 says that his mercy encompasses 0:36:29 everything so it's not partial 0:36:30 it's not selective it's for everyone and 0:36:32 everything good person bad person 0:36:34 believe a disbeliever 0:36:36 and it's not earned because you could 0:36:38 reject him you could live a life of 0:36:40 disobeying him 0:36:41 and allah is still enveloping you in his 0:36:44 intense 0:36:44 powerful immediate mercy because that's 0:36:47 what al-rahman means and interestingly 0:36:50 the word al-rahman shares the same root 0:36:52 as the root for 0:36:54 the womb right and you know the womb 0:36:57 holds the baby and the mother 0:36:58 what kind of love does she have for the 0:37:00 baby and this echoes a prophetic 0:37:02 tradition where the prophet muhammad 0:37:04 upon him bp said 0:37:05 that you know allah has more affection 0:37:09 for you 0:37:10 than your mother's subhanallah case 0:37:13 closed i don't know what creek is 0:37:14 reading 0:37:15 is craig reading the same tradition is 0:37:18 he reading the same quran 0:37:19 is he reading the same intellectual 0:37:21 spiritual tradition has he studied the 0:37:23 islamic theology properly 0:37:25 so what i want to say to him is this why 0:37:28 don't you accept this warm intima in 0:37:30 invitation it's going to be warm it's 0:37:32 going to be a dialogue it's not going to 0:37:34 be 0:37:35 hopefully arrogant and excessive it's 0:37:36 going to be just two people speaking 0:37:39 or as many people as you want come 0:37:41 online 0:37:42 for a live discussion with sapience 0:37:45 institute 0:37:46 let's have a discussion on the concept 0:37:48 of god in islam and the concept of 0:37:51 god in the islamic in the christian 0:37:53 tradition 0:37:54 it's time that we had a conversation 0:37:56 about this it's time that we don't talk 0:37:58 past each other 0:37:59 it is time that we articulate our case 0:38:01 for the concept of 0:38:03 the of god in our traditions in a warm 0:38:05 intellectual 0:38:06 and in in in a compassionate way uh with 0:38:10 wisdom 0:38:11 and you know without talking over each 0:38:12 other we're having a nice friendly 0:38:14 discussion just like 0:38:15 what you had with you know a popular 0:38:18 youtube atheist cosmic skeptic 0:38:20 i'm sure you could do that with someone 0:38:22 who you know 0:38:23 is of the abrahamic faiths let's have 0:38:25 that discussion it's time that we had 0:38:27 discussion on this particular point 0:38:29 and to do it in a way that is edifying 0:38:32 because maybe we've said something a 0:38:33 little bit wrong today maybe we've 0:38:34 misrepresented the christian tradition 0:38:36 maybe whatever the case may be we can 0:38:39 actually learn from each other from that 0:38:40 point of view which is 0:38:42 very powerful and very interesting uh 0:38:44 notwithstanding 0:38:45 there is another approach to dealing 0:38:46 with this issue which brother adnan 0:38:48 rasheed if you go to brother adnan 0:38:50 rasheed's youtube channel 0:38:51 he's actually dealt with this in a 0:38:53 different way it was more of a you know 0:38:55 well let's see if god is loving because 0:38:57 look at the biblical tradition what it 0:38:58 says about 0:38:59 killing the unbelievers and all of these 0:39:01 things right 0:39:02 and he uses that he uses he uses a 0:39:04 texture approach 0:39:06 so if someone's interested in that 0:39:08 approach please go to adan richie's 0:39:09 youtube channel for you to 0:39:11 learn from that approach as well that's 0:39:14 probably not the particular approach 0:39:15 that i'm used to 0:39:16 because that's not my learning i'd line 0:39:18 us an expert on these things masha allah 0:39:20 my thing is more creed theology theo 0:39:23 philosophy that's why we've addressed it 0:39:24 in this way 0:39:25 but i think both approaches are quite uh 0:39:29 complementary and what's very 0:39:30 interesting i said to adman i said to 0:39:32 him 0:39:33 you you went for the jugular and you 0:39:37 spoke about the elephant in the room at 0:39:38 the same time 0:39:41 but yeah so so i think this is it i 0:39:43 think we've uh 0:39:44 we've we've addressed uh uh professor 0:39:47 william craig 0:39:48 you know we thanked him in the beginning 0:39:50 for for for some aspects of his work 0:39:52 but you know we had to address it the 0:39:54 way that we did and hopefully 0:39:56 you know this warm inter invitation is 0:39:58 open 0:39:59 and if you if he wants to his team wants 0:40:01 to contact us 0:40:02 we will reach out but if his team wants 0:40:04 to contact us just go to info 0:40:06 at sapience institute.org 0:40:10 s-a-p-i-e-n-c-e 0:40:12 institute.org and yeah absolutely 0:40:15 and you know recently william dr william 0:40:18 craig has been 0:40:19 quite he's been a bit more vocal in 0:40:21 regards to islam and been talking about 0:40:22 islam a lot more i don't know if it's 0:40:24 influenced by david wood or whatever the 0:40:25 case is 0:40:26 um but definitely look if you're gonna 0:40:29 i thought david wood was finished well 0:40:32 he's he's finished but he's still 0:40:33 trying to as per as per 0:40:41 um so yeah it's it's it's an open 0:40:42 invitation you know the 0:40:44 objective one of the objectives behind 0:40:46 doing this live was one number one first 0:40:47 and foremost to clarify 0:40:49 you know how we understand and try to to 0:40:51 the best of our ability to do justice to 0:40:53 how we understand the love of allah from 0:40:55 the islamic tradition 0:40:56 and secondly was to invite dr william 0:40:58 craig for an official debate it could be 0:41:00 online we know he's done it before with 0:41:02 the cosmic skeptic etc online 0:41:04 so there shouldn't be any excuses or 0:41:05 issues um so 0:41:07 definitely you know and another thing 0:41:08 brothers and sisters this is hamza 0:41:10 there's about 300 0:41:11 and there was about 350 people watching 0:41:13 this live there's about 306 now 0:41:15 so brothers and sisters are like it's 0:41:17 it's i would say it's a responsibility 0:41:18 upon every single one of us right 0:41:20 now to share this or tweet this to dr 0:41:22 william lane craig 0:41:24 or his team and and get this out there 0:41:26 so we can have that dialogue let's make 0:41:28 him deliver 0:41:29 his content and at the very least bro at 0:41:31 least he gets to learn about what islam 0:41:32 says in regards to the love of god 0:41:34 yes and one thing one thing i want to 0:41:35 mention is to the muslims right 0:41:37 you know we have to take responsibility 0:41:40 as well 0:41:41 we haven't you know collectively 0:41:44 especially in the west revived 0:41:46 this understanding of worship that 0:41:48 includes 0:41:49 god's love it's very important for us to 0:41:52 resurrect this classical mainstream 0:41:55 islamic understanding of the divine 0:41:57 nature that is 0:41:59 the loving and how we relate to that 0:42:01 because 0:42:02 worshiping allah enters knowing him but 0:42:04 also loving him 0:42:05 and obeying him and that includes being 0:42:08 humble before him and directing all acts 0:42:10 of worship to him alone 0:42:11 we need to establish a loving 0:42:13 relationship with 0:42:15 the reason i'm saying that because it 0:42:17 would change the way 0:42:19 we become in the world and who we are so 0:42:22 i've i've been so shocked especially 0:42:24 when i became muslim around 18 years ago 0:42:26 that christians can say that they have a 0:42:28 loving relationship with the lord 0:42:29 muslims don't have a loving relation 0:42:31 with the lord and i'm thinking 0:42:33 how on earth can they even say this and 0:42:35 that's because maybe we don't speak 0:42:37 about this enough 0:42:38 because if any christian i'm talking to 0:42:40 my christian brothers and sisters in 0:42:42 humanity now 0:42:43 if you understood who allah is that he 0:42:46 doesn't require anything external to the 0:42:48 way you relate to god in order to god 0:42:50 for god to forgive you 0:42:51 right you know it doesn't require an 0:42:53 external sacrifice 0:42:55 doesn't require you to believe that that 0:42:56 sacrifice actually even happened just 0:42:58 your heart to turn to him 0:43:00 that's all that's required this is 0:43:01 maximal forgiveness this is maximal love 0:43:04 the way you worship allah is not through 0:43:07 his son or through a pope or a book 0:43:10 it's actually yourself salah the five 0:43:14 daily prayers comes from the root word 0:43:16 to connect 0:43:17 we want to connect directly to the 0:43:19 divine this is a direct loving 0:43:21 relationship 0:43:22 a direct loving relationship jesus is 0:43:25 not the bridge between 0:43:26 you and the father yes so-called father 0:43:29 but rather is this your heart 0:43:31 and allah your heart and allah let your 0:43:35 heart gaze 0:43:36 to the love of allah subhanallah it 0:43:39 become closer to allah by following the 0:43:41 prophet muhammad sallallahu 0:43:43 alaihi he wasn't because allah says in 0:43:44 the quran if you love allah 0:43:46 then follow me meaning follow muhammad 0:43:48 sallam and allah would love you 0:43:50 and forgive your sins and this is a 0:43:51 special type of love allah has that 0:43:53 intense mercy for you but if you want 0:43:55 that 0:43:55 special type of love you want that love 0:43:58 then you 0:43:58 need to follow the way to him which is 0:44:01 worshipping allah subhanahu wa 0:44:03 ta'ala because 0:44:07 because you know worshiping allah 0:44:08 subhanahu wa to allah 0:44:10 in the kind of muhammadan way in the way 0:44:12 of the sunnah of the process 0:44:14 is the way to connect to him and that 0:44:16 doesn't require anything external 0:44:18 doesn't require his son it is you 0:44:20 directly to allah so what is 0:44:22 who has more of a loving relationship 0:44:24 right from that point of view because 0:44:26 it's 0:44:26 it's it's all there it's just you your 0:44:28 heart and allah 0:44:29 so you know i i i want christians to 0:44:32 study this tradition 0:44:33 um to understand this tradition to 0:44:35 understand who allah 0:44:37 is and maybe you should play a final 0:44:39 video because it's very interesting that 0:44:40 william lane craig 0:44:42 was saying that god and the quran hates 0:44:44 so and so but what does actually the 0:44:46 bible say i mean you've become a victim 0:44:48 of your own criticism watch this video 0:44:50 guys 0:44:51 and put the volume up yeah give me a 0:44:53 second let me just 0:44:56 well basically yeah carry on until you 0:44:57 get it ready it's in proverbs that 0:45:00 the the god of the bible actually hates 0:45:03 seven people or seven things at least 0:45:14 let me put the nail in this coffin real 0:45:16 tight 0:45:18 god hates a liar 0:45:21 god hates a liar 0:45:24 proverb chapter 6 verse 16 says 0:45:28 these six things doth the lord hate 0:45:31 yea seven are an abomination unto him 0:45:35 a proud look a lying tongue and hands 0:45:38 that 0:45:39 shed innocent blood a heart that 0:45:42 deviseth wicked imaginations 0:45:44 feet that be swift and running to 0:45:46 mischief 0:45:47 a false witness that speaketh lies and 0:45:50 he that soweth discord among brethren 0:45:55 in the short list of seven things that 0:45:58 god hates 0:45:58 two amongst them are lying 0:46:00 [Music]0:46:02 i think that's that that pretty much 0:46:03 summarizes it bro i think that's another 0:46:05 interesting point spanish you know we're 0:46:07 good we left at the end because it 0:46:08 wasn't necessary bro if you think about 0:46:09 it you know making it 0:46:10 wasn't yeah it wasn't but you know you 0:46:13 have to understand that sometimes you 0:46:14 need to be coherent and consistent you 0:46:16 can't be a victim of your own criticism 0:46:18 so apply the same criticism to the 0:46:20 biblical god my friend right 0:46:22 god hates god hates someone who's who's 0:46:25 god hates the liar right what hates the 0:46:27 liar bro the the person who who who what 0:46:30 does false witness or something 0:46:31 so uh you square the circle doctor will 0:46:35 you name craig please 0:46:36 craig needs to be careful you're not 0:46:38 gonna say it but i'm gonna say it 0:46:39 you know you're very careful that you're 0:46:41 not lying especially about islamic 0:46:43 tradition we're not saying he is 0:46:44 but he has to at least do his research 0:46:45 when he's speaking about islam and the 0:46:47 love of god 0:46:47 in islam that being said brothers and 0:46:49 sisters two things two calls to action 0:46:51 number one 0:46:53 share this with william craig get this 0:46:54 out to him so we can make that actual 0:46:56 debate happen between hamza and craig 0:46:58 dr craig and secondly bro 0:47:01 you'll be shocked last thing you know 0:47:03 when i was going through doing a bit of 0:47:04 research yesterday on google 0:47:06 so many christian missionaries are 0:47:07 taking woody name craig's argument this 0:47:09 argument about the love of allah being 0:47:11 not perfect etc in islam or deficient 0:47:14 and writing blog posts and 0:47:15 and all of these essays and all of these 0:47:17 things online so many of them same 0:47:19 narrative 0:47:20 bro brothers and sisters make sure you 0:47:21 push this video this is the starting 0:47:23 point of getting the correct narrative 0:47:24 out then shall i push this video 0:47:26 which brother adam rasheed's video that 0:47:27 he's done on his channel which was also 0:47:29 absolutely 0:47:29 it takes a different perspective and 0:47:31 yeah that's it anything comes up 0:47:32 last things you want to say bro before 0:47:34 we wrap up well i i wouldn't want to 0:47:35 have a debate with craig i want to have 0:47:36 a conversation with him i think that's 0:47:38 very important 0:47:39 and hopefully in the future we're going 0:47:40 to be writing about this topic in 0:47:42 specific response to 0:47:44 dr craig's perspective on the concept of 0:47:46 god in the christian tradition islamic 0:47:47 tradition 0:47:48 and you know anything we've said that is 0:47:50 wrong anything that we said that is 0:47:52 inaccurate 0:47:53 has come from our egos has come from 0:47:55 shaitaan anything that is good has come 0:47:57 from 0:47:57 al-wudud the loving lord al-rahman the 0:48:00 intensely merciful lord 0:48:02 especially merciful lord and everyone 0:48:05 needs to remember that 0:48:06 may allah bless every single one of you 0:48:08 allah guide every single one of you 0:48:10 may all of you be showered and enveloped 0:48:12 in god's intense mercy 0:48:14 and his boundless love this is the 0:48:17 islamic 0:48:18 tradition 0:48:23 foreign

Hamza Tzortzis Dismantles William Lane Craig (2020-07-10) ​

Summary of Hamza Tzortzis Dismantles William Lane Craig ​

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Hamza Tzortzis Dismantles William Lane Craig (2020-07-10)

Summary of Hamza Tzortzis Dismantles William Lane Craig

00:00:00 [00:45:00