Why Are We ALIVE ? Muslim/Atheist Discussion (2017-12-19) #

0:00:45 does that make the most okay so tell me
0:00:51 something the way I look at the universe
0:01:03 you believe the universe I'm good
0:01:05 there's theories behind that and I'm
0:01:07 open to some say that the universe
0:01:11 didn't even begin then it just it just
0:01:12 it just minimize fire what are you gonna
0:01:15 bleed about okay that's fine I think
0:01:16 you're all right I grew sorry the more
0:01:22 you go on
0:01:38 so the universe is expanding it is going
0:01:40 to come back down it's almost like what
0:02:03 you say that you said the universe had a
0:02:06 beginning yeah I see where would you
0:02:14 agree that everything that begins to
0:02:15 exist has a cause so give me an example
0:02:18 of something that begins to exist with
0:02:20 no cause so you're saying dark matter is
0:02:31 a direct consequence of the Big Bang so
0:02:34 the cause of dark matter is the Big Bang
0:02:37 if the Big Bang did not happen if
0:02:39 everything supposed to be everything the
0:02:41 universe is fine fine but so therefore
0:02:43 according to your logic if you're saying
0:02:45 dark matter
0:02:47 forget purposes little Christian but my
0:02:50 point was nothing to do with public I
0:02:52 just share everything that you said the
0:02:54 universe began to exist I'm saying
0:02:56 everything that begins to exist has a
0:02:57 cause do you agree with this fine no
0:02:59 it's okay can you give me something
0:03:01 which doesn't have a cause I'm going to
0:03:03 just pause and we began to exist achieve
0:03:06 being of course is what ways it ways it
0:03:11 coming towards ways horse is defined in
0:03:13 the dictionary as something which brings
0:03:14 rise to phenomena so I'm saying do you
0:03:19 know anything which has been brought has
0:03:22 been given rise to yes which doesn't
0:03:24 have a course plan by nothing yeah which
0:03:26 is causing us anything that's caused
0:03:29 this
0:03:30 Kansai forgotten nothing basically and
0:03:34 softly come from you get anything that
0:03:36 you can tell us that came from my face
0:03:37 yeah so your experience all subjective
0:03:43 or otherwise observational life story
0:03:47 would give us the indication about
0:03:49 everything you've witnessed in your life
0:03:52 that has ever been caused into effect
0:03:54 has a cause okay fine so I'm saying the
0:03:57 same applies to the universe you agree
0:03:59 with that fine
0:04:00 so everything that begins to exist on
0:04:01 the course the universe began to exist
0:04:03 therefore the universe had a corkscrew
0:04:05 right fine what's this course yeah so
0:04:10 let's use deductive inference yeah let's
0:04:12 use inference now to identify what the
0:04:14 causes this possible explanation yeah so
0:04:16 what is the best possible explanation
0:04:18 for this course depends depending on
0:04:20 what causes do you agree that the laws
0:04:23 of physics and ask your questions
0:04:25 what's your name again Brian Mohammed
0:04:29 that's too much
0:04:31 I want to try something with you okay
0:04:33 hope it's not physical the laws of
0:04:38 physics do you agree that there are
0:04:41 something called the laws of physics
0:04:43 yeah there's probably some things out
0:04:48 there is this universe ordered with the
0:04:55 laws of physics for you yes with the
0:04:57 laws of physics what science is it is in
0:04:59 as you go to exist no do we have laws of
0:05:05 physics in this universe yeah and what
0:05:08 do they you know the physics show us
0:05:11 about the universe does it show its
0:05:14 audit or non audit system it's a lot of
0:05:21 it is random okay you believe in
0:05:22 randomness yeah I'm gonna ask you to do
0:05:25 something about Ryan O'Brian right okay
0:05:36 I'm gonna say something today I don't
0:05:41 remember this
0:05:43 randomness exists I mean I would say
0:05:54 this in fact I'm saying now is one of
0:06:05 those things this is one of those is
0:06:21 okay because services was gonna say
0:07:33 choose this what's that thing called the
0:07:36 queue is if you yeah all right
0:07:39 I don't play pool now someone might
0:07:43 think if I were to play pool like this
0:07:45 and I get the whiteboard and I'm not
0:07:47 called over buzz of it then that's a
0:07:49 random thing no philosopher would agree
0:07:53 that that's random I want you to
0:07:55 remember this year everything everything
0:08:00 in this world is a result of two things
0:08:03 genetics and environment your
0:08:06 conversation with me here today is not a
0:08:09 random conversation it is necessarily a
0:08:14 product of necessarily a product of
0:08:16 genetics and environment yes do you
0:08:19 understand I'm saying okay everything
0:08:25 this is a philosophical consensus claim
0:08:30 is random it's not good it's all about
0:08:31 working so I tell you what I do I
0:08:33 totally agree with you 100% when you're
0:08:36 looking at the scale of the planet and
0:08:38 the earth that we live in when you start
0:08:40 scaling for me that's fine that's cool
0:08:45 but I'm saying the laws of physics the
0:08:48 fact that they're ordered in that that
0:08:50 way we have to have laws of physics we
0:08:53 say that is a non random it cannot be a
0:08:56 random thing fantasy I come from or who
0:08:59 said this but science and physics
0:09:01 generally speaking is just one thing
0:09:03 really yeah it's yes physics is a part
0:09:07 of science right so physics is the study
0:09:09 of patterns and regular and regularities
0:09:13 in nature
0:09:16 I'm saying that that will suggest that
0:09:20 the universe here is regulated and has
0:09:25 patterns question is why do the laws of
0:09:28 physics exist to place those into place
0:09:36 how I'm asking you we've established
0:09:38 that randomness does not exist right now
0:09:42 we know that I mean I don't know that
0:09:45 because like I said there's a lot of
0:09:46 stuff as you Brian chance the universe
0:09:48 the verb you go out the more expect in
0:09:50 it in explainable you do it gives when
0:09:52 you're the hot laws of physics right
0:09:54 when you're done - yeah totally 100%
0:09:56 that's the laws that that's the grounds
0:09:58 that we live in the reality we live okay
0:09:59 but the more you branch out the harder
0:10:01 it is for you to say it or it doesn't
0:10:03 because at the end of the day in the
0:10:05 universe you've got hundreds of hundreds
0:10:07 of probably thousands billions of random
0:10:09 events going on planets colliding into
0:10:11 each other just a bunch of stuff some of
0:10:13 those will form into planets cool that
0:10:14 will have life some of them won't okay
0:10:16 I'm not saying I'm not making an
0:10:17 argument that says that planets have to
0:10:19 have life you could say like I'm just
0:10:22 saying that laws the laws of physics we
0:10:26 could conceive them understand
0:10:27 understand them science yet without
0:10:29 venturing up to the universe right okay
0:10:32 so I'm just using the laws of theory
0:10:33 from deductive reasoning and say by all
0:10:35 means what happens out here must happen
0:10:37 out there okay I'm not saying anything
0:10:38 in this world used world this earth yeah
0:10:41 you see what I'm saying so here we said
0:10:43 that the universe has a course before
0:10:44 that we said the universe is dependent
0:10:46 on something we said that everything
0:10:47 that changes is dependent the universe
0:10:50 has changes therefore it's dependent so
0:10:52 we've got two questions to ask what
0:10:54 caused the universe and what is the
0:10:56 universe dependent upon
0:10:58 and the answer is the same you see what
0:11:01 I mean what caused the universe and what
0:11:03 is the what is the universe dependent
0:11:05 upon and the answer is the same I would
0:11:07 say to you that whatever caused the
0:11:08 universe is what the universe is
0:11:11 dependent upon wherever the universe is
0:11:13 dependent upon is what caused the
0:11:14 universe now we already established that
0:11:17 one of the things that the universe is
0:11:19 dependent upon is something which must
0:11:20 be independent because if we say it's
0:11:22 dependent upon something which is
0:11:23 dependent there'll be a regressive chain
0:11:25 of independent things so you have to
0:11:28 have one independent entity the same
0:11:29 thing applies we're saying that the
0:11:31 universe and of course if you say that
0:11:33 the course had a course and of course
0:11:34 you'll have a regressive chain called
0:11:36 the infinite regression
0:11:37 now that infinite regression has to have
0:11:39 one start right something which I don't
0:11:42 want everything right my question now is
0:11:44 up what occur to what are the necessary
0:11:46 characteristics of the entity that
0:11:49 started everything up I'm saying to you
0:11:50 that when we look at the laws of physics
0:11:54 the fact that the universe is ordered
0:11:56 regulator that has systems right that
0:12:00 shouldn't thing and everything is
0:12:01 predetermined that should in the
0:12:03 indicate to us that the independent
0:12:07 entity that side the universal the
0:12:08 ultimate cause of the universe is in
0:12:10 fact an intelligent force
0:12:12 would you agree I'd say I'd say yes I'd
0:12:21 say there is an entity that's
0:12:22 controlling everything that there would
0:12:23 be intelligent yeah sure they'd have to
0:12:25 be so precise right so I'm moving
0:12:30 forward I'll say that if that's the case
0:12:33 it would also have to have power because
0:12:35 it would have to be power we'd have to
0:12:37 change the situation from non-being to
0:12:39 being right we have to have ability to
0:12:42 change a non entity into an entity when
0:12:47 the universe began to exist as an
0:12:48 evidence of this that universe is
0:12:49 dependent upon something is another
0:12:51 evidence of this right so wherever the
0:12:53 universe is dependent upon must be
0:12:56 something which is in effect really laid
0:12:59 will to power the universe able to allow
0:13:01 the universe to be dependent upon it so
0:13:03 here the universe is dependent upon an
0:13:06 independent entity which is allowing the
0:13:08 maintenance of universe which brings us
0:13:10 to another thing that this thing must be
0:13:12 maintaining and sustaining the universe
0:13:15 this thing must be indivisible it cannot
0:13:20 be more than one because if this thing
0:13:21 was more than one first of all most
0:13:23 there would be chaos if you say for
0:13:25 example if I say that there were two
0:13:29 things which were all-powerful two
0:13:32 independent things that were
0:13:34 all-powerful those two things are there
0:13:38 are two names for one thing those two
0:13:42 things one of those two things would
0:13:44 have to be powerful over the other thing
0:13:45 because you can't have two all-powerful
0:13:47 entities this impossible you have to
0:13:49 have only one all-powerful because by by
0:13:53 physical necessity do powerful means
0:13:55 that is powerful than anything else
0:13:56 calling act not taking and if that did
0:14:02 happen for example if we said an entity
0:14:05 one was control of the leaves of the
0:14:07 tree and entity two is in control of the
0:14:09 roots of the tree then there is a
0:14:11 potential for conflict conflict in the
0:14:15 context of the laws of physics the fact
0:14:18 that we see that there is no conflict in
0:14:19 the universe in that sense there is a
0:14:22 structured rule would indicate was that
0:14:24 it cannot be like that by the way we
0:14:29 know even even the ancient Greeks
0:14:32 democracies democracies interestingly he
0:14:41 said that you talk about the beginning
0:14:44 of the universe must mean divisible by
0:14:46 the size universe must begin the visible
0:14:48 because and this goes back to kind of
0:14:50 Occam's razor Occam's razor is another
0:14:52 philosophical preceptor says that you
0:14:54 need to simplify something to the lowest
0:14:55 common multiple and the lowest common
0:14:58 multiple in this case is one one is the
0:15:02 only necessary number the only necessary
0:15:04 entity to start this change of reaction
0:15:06 we only need one prime mover we only
0:15:08 need one thing that pushes the dominoes
0:15:10 we don't need to and even if we did me
0:15:13 to so even if there could be two days
0:15:15 they wouldn't be able to co-exist
0:15:16 because of the clashes that they will be
0:15:19 going into conflict together so we've
0:15:22 established that this entity is one is
0:15:24 got intelligence has got power is got
0:15:26 bility
0:15:26 being
0:15:27 argue that anything with intelligence
0:15:29 can come around the laws of nature you
0:15:32 say something exists and the same power
0:15:35 they have two suits not have some sort
0:15:37 of conflict right because they're there
0:15:38 at the same hour and if one is above the
0:15:40 other then they can kind of control the
0:15:42 media if one is above the other then it
0:15:44 could just stop or delay the other thing
0:15:45 yeah sure so wouldn't me too and then
0:15:50 they worked amongst themselves so you've
0:15:58 got two things you've got intelligence
0:15:59 and you've also got power yeah so when
0:16:02 you have power when you come to
0:16:04 democratically power to create and to
0:16:10 domani so I think of it this way we
0:16:12 can't find them what they would write a
0:16:13 cosmic level would feel and they could
0:16:15 talk to we're intelligent enough to say
0:16:26 the contradiction the contradiction if
0:16:28 they were both intelligent right if
0:16:31 we're both all intelligent first and
0:16:33 foremost we all need each other sure do
0:16:35 you know what the difference is the
0:16:36 difference is this if me and you are
0:16:39 intelligent we need each other because
0:16:40 we know two or two minds are better than
0:16:41 one
0:16:41 why for both all intelligent we even
0:16:44 don't even need each other so you see
0:16:45 you're saying there's the thing that's
0:16:47 behind all the universes Eva Barbie too
0:16:50 but if it is too it has to be one is
0:16:53 about the other yeah and if one is it
0:16:54 love the other then it's actually only
0:16:56 one thing which is support enabled
0:16:57 anything special you get it so that
0:17:00 exactly right
0:17:00 so I think you're right so here I would
0:17:03 say to you this
0:17:05 that is all the case the intelligent
0:17:08 design thesis which is that there's
0:17:10 something some entity that began the
0:17:12 universe does that sound more reasonable
0:17:15 than that there is no inference that we
0:17:19 can make from the beginning of the
0:17:20 universe except the universities when I
0:17:21 say it's very ok fine you just say it
0:17:24 makes more sense now you've got two
0:17:27 options that happen I agree it makes
0:17:30 more sense but at the end of the day we
0:17:38 are people of inference right human
0:17:40 beings are inference makers will make
0:17:42 them for it on a daily basis little
0:17:43 inference is defined as a conclusion
0:17:45 that we'll make based on the evidences
0:17:46 so here we've looked at the deductive
0:17:48 evidence all the arguments we've seen
0:17:51 that actually the conclusion that can
0:17:52 reasonably make based on the evidence in
0:17:57 the case of the universe and who is
0:18:00 controlling the universe in some way
0:18:01 maintaining it inside it has the
0:18:03 intelligence to put the laws of physics
0:18:05 into place
0:18:05 and all the other laws in the place and
0:18:09 who is one so it is the case my question
0:18:11 is
0:18:13 what purpose so you Ryan what's the
0:18:18 purpose of life then why did this entity
0:18:20 put you on this planet this placement on
0:18:23 this path and this universe you could
0:18:25 never possibly answer that question what
0:18:27 if it just wanted me to exist and
0:18:29 experience the beauty of what reality is
0:18:32 that is made for us or you could say
0:18:35 that it actually has requirements at
0:18:37 once how do you know it's a part answer
0:18:38 that question the only thing you know
0:18:43 what's really ironic the only thing
0:18:49 you're sure about is your go is your
0:18:51 sense about certain about is that you
0:18:53 are sir I do
0:18:57 I think uncertainty is a curious thing
0:19:06 because it takes away from the mystery
0:19:16 you can't be certain that your answer
0:19:18 you can't be certain with an uncertainty
0:19:21 you can only be uncertain with an
0:19:24 uncertainty now if you want to say to me
0:19:26 you can never know that ok that was
0:19:29 suggesting that you've seen all the
0:19:31 answers and you've made the decision
0:19:32 I'll paint you that is your eyes I
0:19:34 waited that bad ok there is possibility
0:19:37 I could one day nine five my question is
0:19:39 is there a fixed purpose because
0:19:41 everyone kosaka say look
0:19:43 Mont illogically you can make your own
0:19:45 subjective purpose I can make my own
0:19:47 subjective purpose he can make his own
0:19:49 subjective purpose we can all make our
0:19:50 own subjective purposes meaning we can
0:19:54 make our own meaning you ask someone
0:19:57 what's your purpose of life to become a
0:19:59 millionaire someone else's has become a
0:20:02 serial killer said well you know she can
0:20:04 be arranged
0:20:04 you can arrange right the point is this
0:20:06 I'm not asking about subjective purpose
0:20:08 my question is now objective purpose
0:20:13 have do you feel
0:20:16 that this entity that ordered the
0:20:22 universe would good hat should walk to
0:20:28 have assigned an objective purpose for
0:20:34 me when I said objective purpose a
0:20:37 purpose which is free from subjective
0:20:40 bias if you're talking about something
0:20:44 as simply as living life to the fullest
0:20:46 and what that's a liberal idea a small
0:20:49 problem
0:20:49 well I'm saying is that a defining
0:20:51 purpose it because then I'll be able to
0:20:53 say a purpose is a reason reason if
0:20:58 you're saying that this purpose is like
0:21:00 oh I have to lead a good life be a good
0:21:05 person I'm not saying this I'm just
0:21:07 saying look just purpose in mind I'm
0:21:09 saying from from this teleological
0:21:12 perspective right things which exist in
0:21:16 the context visitors carefully things
0:21:19 which exist in the context of a
0:21:22 predetermined
0:21:24 universe with ordered laws of physics
0:21:27 which are structured and regulated exist
0:21:30 for purpose that's - mother which
0:21:33 include me and you one more time one
0:21:36 more time things which exist in the
0:21:39 context of a predetermined universe with
0:21:43 rules and regulations which put it into
0:21:47 wit which govern it exists for a purpose
0:21:53 therefore since we are within that the
0:21:57 universe the human also has a purpose so
0:22:23 why should we have continuation
0:22:24 continuation why should we have
0:22:26 continuation of the human species if
0:22:28 we're such a avoid species of any
0:22:32 objective purpose why should there be
0:22:33 continuation
0:22:35 that doesn't need to be exactly don't
0:22:41 you think that we're different from kind
0:22:42 of I think they're more intelligent
0:22:44 there's more to it than that you know
0:22:47 what the difference between us and
0:22:48 dinosaurs the difference is we can ask
0:22:54 why and the dinosaur can ask why yes for
0:22:56 sure
0:22:56 yeah we can think about purpose where's
0:22:59 the dinosaur the t-rex you can't think
0:23:00 about purpose yeah coughing why do I
0:23:02 exist together it's all I'm saying to
0:23:03 assist while sensuous simple
0:23:08 straightforward easy digestible
0:23:11 reasonable concluded the purpose of
0:23:16 human beings
0:23:18 is to do what everything else if the
0:23:21 universe is doing wait a minute what did
0:23:25 you say
0:23:26 okay now I'll tell you again okay since
0:23:30 everything in the universe is
0:23:31 predetermined
0:23:32 there must be something which
0:23:33 predetermined the universe we will say
0:23:36 that thing that predetermined the rules
0:23:37 and regulations of the universe is the
0:23:39 entity which created the universe the
0:23:41 creator we have to also be in compliance
0:23:44 with the rules and regulations of the
0:23:46 Creator do you see how that works how
0:23:50 will we know the rules and the
0:23:52 regulations of the Creator
0:23:57 we system illogically in order for us to
0:24:00 understand something have to be taught
0:24:01 here so our worldview is that literally
0:24:06 there was an intermediary which we call
0:24:09 angels to locally I always see this kind
0:24:11 of thing is to circular is I understand
0:24:13 we hear angels on this stuff do like you
0:24:15 know fairytale forget about this I'm
0:24:17 going to I'm going to leave now go back
0:24:18 to whatever nothing like that
0:24:21 angels like intermediaries support Nets
0:24:26 of God
0:24:26 right so which God uses because this
0:24:29 entity is good right now I'm just scrap
0:24:32 he uses them to allow for communication
0:24:38 between him and then we use it for other
0:24:40 reasons as well so we say that human
0:24:42 beings came a full time back Abraham and
0:24:44 Moses and Jesus and all of these human
0:24:47 beings came you know - and they had that
0:24:51 communication from that create that
0:24:52 entity okay so the entity came told them
0:24:55 to believe in the One God and to worship
0:24:57 one God worship is submission to the
0:25:00 rules and regulations of God they had
0:25:02 been told the rules and regulations of
0:25:03 God
0:25:05 and this one cool revelation and then
0:25:08 they will tell that to their people and
0:25:09 we say that that ended with Mohammed who
0:25:11 which we believe is the final prophet
0:25:13 each of the prophets came with two
0:25:16 things they came with those rules and
0:25:17 regulations and they also came with
0:25:19 evidence to prove their profit solve the
0:25:22 evidences that they have come with good
0:25:24 range so depending on the time in a
0:25:25 place we will say some of the evidences
0:25:27 of the parameter on is inimitable it can
0:25:30 be replicated replicated is that as
0:25:33 preserved as the only preserved
0:25:35 religious document every religious text
0:25:37 is only preserved one of all of the
0:25:40 religious texts is that has no
0:25:42 contradiction in it and that's one of
0:25:44 the challenges of the Quran and also
0:25:48 that no one is capable of producing and
0:25:51 we've said this before with enemies
0:25:52 challenge anything like the there are
0:25:57 other things like predictions it makes
0:25:58 of the future I mean the predicted I
0:26:01 would say this kind of evidence to show
0:26:16 that in fact it's been here my whole
0:27:43 life it's been why didn't I just look in
0:27:47 you know I like things like the media
0:27:51 oh I've never been for the media anyway
0:27:53 that guy that looked into previously
0:27:56 theories the university's done you know
0:27:59 what when I saw that it's kind of my
0:28:01 answers I was like I never hadn't I
0:28:03 never had a reason not to believe you
0:28:07 and I appreciate that
0:28:09 I've actually looked into other
0:28:11 religions as well I've specifically gone
0:28:13 to Islam in too deep I've gone to other
0:28:23 places I do look I see what what the
0:28:26 opinion is because I am interested I
0:28:43 think if those questions were answered
0:28:47 while I would have to go into a specific
0:28:50 Byron let me tell you what I would have
0:28:53 the answers let me tell you imitate
0:28:55 something no you don't believe in
0:28:56 nothing
0:28:59 it's not like I don't think nothing is
0:29:02 out there true but I like to think that
0:29:03 something could be out there that is why
0:29:15 I love atheists and a lot of other
0:29:17 people go into heavy depression and
0:29:19 that's also why I lost people when
0:29:21 they're almost you know they I think we
0:29:34 are Wow that's my understanding
0:30:23 I think same of me and the universe and
0:30:27 then when we start when you combine
0:30:30 ideologies of the universe's start
0:30:32 making sense to me which gave me the
0:30:34 motivation believe it was the fact that
0:30:46 you can't write a verse like it and
0:30:49 torture this date is impossible out for
0:30:52 me dies done that is one thing that's
0:30:54 the dust the only for that's enough to
0:30:56 close they say nothing is impossible
0:30:58 that's impossible
0:31:02 one and then what that stuff like a
0:31:04 shiny pokemon the chain of the rich
0:31:07 chain of narration I was living I don't
0:31:16 want to talk about it I wasn't living a
0:31:18 good life
0:31:18 no when I looked into his son who
0:31:20 teaches us out there it goes in this is
0:31:32 a way of life this is so beautiful the
0:31:36 way I wish I looked into but you know
0:31:42 everything happens for a reason
0:31:43 everything
0:31:55 it's just I'm looking to get back last
0:32:06 on my falls for a little yeah at the
0:32:08 injury they say some waitresses thank
0:32:23 you it's been good man