THE SUNNI VS SHIA DEBATE (2017-06-18) #

0:00:01 okay so today what we're going to do is
0:00:02 we're going to do something which is not
0:00:04 usually done
0:00:05 in let's say tower circles which is
0:00:07 we're going to discuss the matter of
0:00:08 sunni and shia
0:00:10 today we're going to his uh my
0:00:12 interlocutor here is going to
0:00:13 systematically try and answer a video
0:00:15 that i've originally done
0:00:16 which you can find on my channel name
0:00:18 the real differences between
0:00:19 sunni and shia in this video i discussed
0:00:22 three main matters one of them being the
0:00:24 quran
0:00:24 the second being the sahaba or the
0:00:26 companions of the prophet
0:00:27 and the third being imam a central
0:00:30 concept in
0:00:31 shia thought in that i said that these
0:00:34 three things are the most important
0:00:36 things or the most important differences
0:00:39 as it relates to shiite and sunni
0:00:40 discussion
0:00:41 so with that it's important for us in
0:00:42 order for us to get to know first of all
0:00:44 and be educated of each other's
0:00:46 respective schools of thoughts what
0:00:48 these what our
0:00:49 respective positions are on these three
0:00:51 matters number two
0:00:53 today is going to be an attempt for me
0:00:55 from my side to attempt to actually give
0:00:57 evidences
0:00:58 to why is we hold the positions that we
0:01:00 hold as it relates to those three
0:01:02 things uh point number three there's
0:01:04 been some conditions that have been
0:01:06 laid down by the organizers that we are
0:01:09 going to
0:01:10 honor hopefully which are conditions
0:01:12 first of all of not cursing the sahaba
0:01:15 or not let's say praising them in in
0:01:17 public this is the thing that
0:01:20 praising them saying which is an
0:01:23 expressive term in arabic
0:01:25 okay which means may god be pleased with
0:01:27 them so this is
0:01:28 uh something we have agreed upon and we
0:01:31 are going to do that for the sake of
0:01:32 advancing the argument forward and for
0:01:33 the
0:01:34 for the sake of educating the the mass
0:01:35 populist so
0:01:37 i would hope that everyone sticks to
0:01:39 this condition these conditions
0:01:41 i would hope that with this discussion
0:01:44 with this discussion that both parties
0:01:46 sunnis and shias
0:01:47 that are listening to this become more
0:01:49 educated now listen
0:01:50 one more thing i want to say this is not
0:01:52 an argument i'm not starting the
0:01:53 argument yet
0:01:55 nor am i starting the refutation but
0:01:56 what i am going to say to you directly
0:01:58 guys is this
0:01:58 now there are some shias that are going
0:02:00 to be watching this
0:02:02 i want to make my position very clear i
0:02:04 don't consider the general mass of shia
0:02:06 as non-believers
0:02:07 i don't consider that to be the case i
0:02:09 consider myself a sunni muslim this is
0:02:11 how i name myself
0:02:12 a sunni muslim that basically considers
0:02:15 the mass populous of the shia
0:02:17 as part of being muslim as well they are
0:02:19 muslim so if a woman if a shia a woman
0:02:22 or a shia a man or a child or an old
0:02:24 person wants my help
0:02:26 i have they have all the rights if i see
0:02:28 a shiite person i will say salaam
0:02:30 alaikum
0:02:31 if a shiite person dies i will do janaza
0:02:33 on them until the end of that
0:02:35 so this is just one thing i wanted to
0:02:36 make no hostility between me and
0:02:38 the shiite brothers because frankly i do
0:02:40 consider the mass populace as muslims
0:02:43 so this is a very important point the
0:02:45 purpose of me advancing the argument
0:02:46 today is not
0:02:47 because i hate shias it's because i
0:02:50 this i disassociate completely with
0:02:53 elements of shiizen
0:03:04 does it might does it matter where i
0:03:05 plug it or do i hold it i'll just put it
0:03:07 here
0:03:07 okay thank you for all the brothers for
0:03:12 coming here today
0:03:13 now the purpose of this discussion was
0:03:15 of course in reply to
0:03:17 it's in a reply to the video that
0:03:18 brother muhammad hijab made where he
0:03:20 highlighted the differences between
0:03:22 the shia and the sunni he mentioned in
0:03:24 the video that they revolved the three
0:03:26 biggest differences revolve around quran
0:03:28 sahaba and imam
0:03:30 now first on that point of course i'm
0:03:31 not making argument but i would say that
0:03:33 i disagree on that because i would say
0:03:35 from the very beginning toraheed i would
0:03:37 say we differ on that
0:03:38 and there's many aspects we can discuss
0:03:39 of tahiti however i'm not going to get
0:03:40 into that because
0:03:41 that wasn't mentioned on the video so
0:03:43 the points that you mentioned were under
0:03:45 many the free headings but there were
0:03:47 various different points mentioned in
0:03:48 the video
0:03:49 and some brothers requested me to do a
0:03:51 series in order to reply to these points
0:03:53 however i said if i'm going to
0:03:54 do a video it won't be one or two videos
0:03:56 because i want to give justice to these
0:03:58 points
0:03:58 nor do i believe i can do that fully in
0:04:00 this discussion today but i will try my
0:04:02 best
0:04:02 to of course discuss these points with
0:04:04 you and i want you to elaborate on your
0:04:06 positions that you mentioned in the
0:04:07 video
0:04:07 so you may bring new evidence however
0:04:09 i'm not obliged to answer new things
0:04:11 rather the points that you made in the
0:04:12 video these need backing up because
0:04:13 you've made them
0:04:14 and of course brother you said it's an
0:04:16 age it's an educational video
0:04:18 with would you respect yourself i do not
0:04:19 believe it was an educational video but
0:04:21 i'm saying that myself of course
0:04:22 even if a non-muslim for example does a
0:04:24 video against islam we
0:04:26 may hold that opinion say you know we
0:04:27 want to meet up with him and prove it's
0:04:28 my educational so what i'll do is
0:04:29 i'll go through these points inshallah
0:04:31 ta'ala and you can give me your position
0:04:33 as to why you mentioned them and
0:04:35 uh we can discuss in this way because a
0:04:37 proper debate has to have one discussion
0:04:39 and it has one thesis that okay we
0:04:41 conclude at the end here there's
0:04:43 various points and i hope that i'm able
0:04:44 to get through all of them so if we see
0:04:46 that we're dragging on
0:04:47 too long at one point there'll have to
0:04:49 be a conclusion at one point of this
0:04:50 point so that we're able to discuss all
0:04:51 of them
0:04:52 otherwise we have not achieved the
0:04:53 objective of our discussion
0:04:55 so that's all i've got to say
0:04:58 okay and basically um you said you don't
0:05:02 mind me starting because i'm going to
0:05:03 read obviously the arguments that you
0:05:04 put forth so
0:05:10 it's worked out in a way that it came
0:05:12 back to you but i'm saying because
0:05:13 obviously
0:05:16 okay yeah yeah
0:05:19 no okay okay that's fine then
0:05:25 so enchilada if you let me know when you
0:05:26 start on when there's like less time
0:05:28 left
0:05:29 okay now
0:05:32 okay argument one in your video we said
0:05:34 when you said when we look at the
0:05:36 classical shia scholarship with regards
0:05:38 to the preservation of the quran
0:05:39 they don't believe that the quran is
0:05:41 preserved because they do not believe
0:05:42 that sahabah have done a good job
0:05:44 argument two you mentioned fashion
0:05:47 please mention me inshallah the purpose
0:05:48 of mentioning this particular what was
0:05:50 the purpose of you mentioning it
0:05:51 you also mentioned the romani you said
0:05:53 that he believes in
0:05:54 tahrir i believe so these were the main
0:05:58 three things that you mentioned
0:05:59 regarding the points of this now
0:06:02 what i would say firstly is that you you
0:06:04 say classical shia scholarship within
0:06:05 your video
0:06:06 you fail to mention one classical chia
0:06:08 scholar because i want to ask you as
0:06:09 well
0:06:10 of course tabresi we have three
0:06:12 different tablasis of course
0:06:13 the one that you mentioned he died in
0:06:16 which year the year of 1902. so we
0:06:18 wouldn't consider him as a classical
0:06:20 scholar nor even someone like allama to
0:06:21 imagine would be considered as a
0:06:23 classical scholar
0:06:24 so this is one point that i mentioned on
0:06:26 that um
0:06:28 of course the second point you said okay
0:06:30 i would just want you to say okay why
0:06:32 have you mentioned that book
0:06:33 and of course um with romani's book now
0:06:35 some
0:06:36 shia brothers they may follow shirazi
0:06:38 sistani whatever romania i'm not into
0:06:40 you know disputes between
0:06:41 these scholars i don't care about that
0:06:42 but what i'm saying is do you have an
0:06:44 original copy of the book
0:06:46 where he says that he does believe
0:06:47 actually in tahrir because i myself have
0:06:49 genuinely searched
0:06:50 i'm not defending i'm just saying that
0:06:51 any author when you quote their book
0:06:53 if it's correct it's correct if it's not
0:06:55 correct it's not correct so regarding
0:06:56 khomeini have you found the actual quote
0:06:58 because the one that was translated in
0:07:00 arabic and the original language is
0:07:01 farsi of course
0:07:02 and i know that obviously you don't read
0:07:03 faster arab this was translated by a
0:07:07 jordanian or palestinian i believe who
0:07:09 was not of our
0:07:10 school so we could say in some ways it's
0:07:12 a biased translation when you actually
0:07:14 ask the iranians they don't rely on that
0:07:16 translation they say it's been tampered
0:07:17 with and it's not original so if you can
0:07:19 show me inshallah
0:07:20 where you got that from and uh yeah i
0:07:21 can conclude on that
0:07:23 one no no i asked questions
0:07:28 of
0:07:36 okay so it seems to me that his main
0:07:39 issue with what i said was that i failed
0:07:42 to mention
0:07:42 some of the classical scholars in my
0:07:44 video so really he wasn't saying
0:07:46 he wasn't denying and this is an
0:07:47 important point he wasn't denying the
0:07:49 fact that some scholars
0:07:50 in shiite quarters believe in tariff of
0:07:53 the quran meaning that the quran is not
0:07:55 intact and not preserved he didn't deny
0:07:57 that because he doesn't
0:07:59 hopefully believe he doesn't believe in
0:08:00 takiyah as much as let's say
0:08:02 other shias do and this is why i came to
0:08:03 speak to him that's point number one
0:08:06 which is very well noted i think
0:08:07 if anyone's watching this debate you
0:08:08 have to really see read between the
0:08:10 lines
0:08:11 point number two in terms of the
0:08:12 classical scholarship i'll make it very
0:08:13 clear now
0:08:14 in terms of la amili elamili here i've
0:08:16 got some of his quotes and amelie is one
0:08:18 of the most classical
0:08:19 scholars in in shiaism in all of shiaism
0:08:22 and listen to what he says he
0:08:49 for the sunnis he is saying that
0:08:52 the quran has from a ayat which are
0:08:55 being plucked out taken out
0:08:59 this is what he is saying but if this is
0:09:00 not something which is
0:09:02 convincing to you then maybe since you
0:09:04 did mention imagination
0:09:06 then the majority is of the
0:09:09 the hadith which is mentioned in
0:09:10 al-khafi by kalani
0:09:12 which says that there are 17 that the
0:09:15 quran came down as 17
0:09:17 000 ayat the hadith says the the the
0:09:21 quran that came down in seventeen
0:09:22 thousand ayat
0:09:24 and the oldest remainder of it is about
0:09:26 three thousand where there's differences
0:09:27 of
0:09:28 uh and here this hadith is mentioned by
0:09:30 abba abdullah of course
0:09:32 that is jafar sadiq so here we have
0:09:34 jafar the sixth imam
0:09:36 talking about the fact that the quran in
0:09:39 fact came down in 17
0:09:41 000 verses and then after that
0:09:44 all of the verses were taken away until
0:09:46 you only have 3 000 left
0:09:48 obviously maybe didn't count them
0:09:49 properly because they're about six
0:09:50 thousand verses
0:09:51 of uh the quran 6236 to be correct it
0:09:54 should be completely accurate
0:09:55 having said this el majesi makes tashee
0:09:58 of this hadith
0:09:59 and so does his father so he mentioned
0:10:00 an emergency and you said it's not
0:10:02 classical scholar
0:10:03 meaning he says it's authentic and
0:10:05 imaginacy and other books
0:10:06 he himself talks about taharif and it's
0:10:08 very difficult for anyone to say
0:10:11 that al majele see does not believe in
0:10:12 tahrir so here the question is
0:10:14 do you deny first question do you
0:10:17 believe the quran is muharraf
0:10:18 is plagiaris is is not preserved second
0:10:21 question
0:10:22 do you deny that shia scholars in the
0:10:23 mainstream shia circles have said this
0:10:26 third question if not do you make fear
0:10:29 do you say that the shia scholars who
0:10:32 said the quran is naked
0:10:33 are not muslim and if not why not
0:10:38 sorry go ahead
0:10:42 we don't time the might passing right
0:10:43 yes
0:10:54 okay of course the first point you
0:10:55 didn't answer me on it um regarding why
0:10:57 you mentioned top raci
0:10:58 and can you admit that you were wrong in
0:11:00 mentioning mentioning him as a classical
0:11:02 scholar
0:11:03 you should have brought that in your
0:11:04 video i'm actually good because you may
0:11:05 you did correct yourself you said in the
0:11:06 video oh 18 000 ayat um
0:11:09 the hadith you're talking about it says
0:11:10 17 000. but to answer this
0:11:12 we say that yes even this hadith itself
0:11:14 is uh one of the brothers has done the
0:11:16 research where we found
0:11:17 that there is a problem within the chain
0:11:19 with it but we say no we don't just
0:11:20 reject anything
0:11:21 and say okay it's weak we see that
0:11:22 shaykh in his shiite creed
0:11:24 obviously i won't read out the full
0:11:25 quotes because the lack of time he
0:11:27 explains that hadith
0:11:29 extra explanatory revelation it marks up
0:11:32 to this number of seventeen thousand so
0:11:33 chefs what you could have done in your
0:11:34 video you could have mentioned sheikh
0:11:35 murphy you could have mentioned
0:11:37 you could have even mentioned the other
0:11:39 scholars like shertosi who affirmed that
0:11:41 there's no distortion
0:11:42 in the holy quran so you've also implied
0:11:44 that anyone who believes in the holy
0:11:46 quran
0:11:47 is corrupted is kafir or they believe
0:11:49 okay of course
0:11:50 another thing that i want to say to you
0:11:52 is that okay so you say that they're
0:11:53 kapha
0:11:54 please say okay are you wrong on the
0:11:56 tabrasi issue that he's a classical
0:11:57 school or not
0:11:58 the ones that you brought i'm not
0:11:59 obliged to answer them but what i will
0:12:01 say is that
0:12:02 we say anyone who believes in the quran
0:12:04 being distorted we would say that this
0:12:06 belief
0:12:06 is a deviant i don't need to do take on
0:12:08 this eva it is a deviant belief but
0:12:10 however
0:12:10 saying kafir is another kind of um uh
0:12:14 it's another thing to the same kapha is
0:12:15 another category so if i say someone's a
0:12:17 coffer
0:12:18 because of tahrir then just open another
0:12:20 door which i'll elaborate on
0:12:21 but what i'm saying is what was the
0:12:23 purpose because before i go on with my
0:12:25 points i want to know what was your
0:12:26 purpose for mentioning
0:12:27 uh tabrasi's book because obviously we
0:12:29 know it's an isolated
0:12:30 incident it's an isolated case and we
0:12:32 actually know the alama differ as to why
0:12:34 he even wrote this book
0:12:35 and ironically he used more sunni
0:12:37 narrations than shia narrations in the
0:12:39 book
0:12:39 and some scholars i will accept that he
0:12:41 believed in tahrir
0:12:42 i'll say that you know i said okay he
0:12:43 believed in tahrir if i've got no
0:12:44 problem with that but what i'm saying is
0:12:46 if you show that book i also have a book
0:12:48 al-furfan
0:12:48 which is from ibn al-khatif liberal
0:12:54 who in fact himself wrote a whole book
0:12:56 on tahrir
0:12:57 now you may say you've done tech fear on
0:12:59 him but my point is regarding
0:13:02 some of your sahabah i would say that
0:13:03 okay you want to say someone that's a
0:13:04 kafir who believes in tahrir
0:13:06 some of your sahaba would believe in
0:13:07 things that amount to taharith
0:13:09 one of them we find that one of umar bin
0:13:11 al-happabs his recitation
0:13:13 he would recite suratul fatiha in the
0:13:16 following way
0:13:17 he would say that sirataman ananta
0:13:21 um clearly here we don't find in any of
0:13:24 your
0:13:25 art the present day out that this is
0:13:26 present that he's uh this reading
0:13:28 and we find that omar said this so would
0:13:30 you say yourself that this is
0:13:32 so regarding to sum up as i said the
0:13:34 seventeen thousand ir we can say that we
0:13:35 accept it
0:13:36 in the way of hadith so as we know it's
0:13:38 still from allah but it does not count
0:13:41 as revelation as part of the quran so i
0:13:43 could easily reject this
0:13:45 and bring other narrations where it
0:13:46 doesn't to tahrir nor does it loot for
0:13:48 example to the names
0:13:49 of the imams in the quran however we'll
0:13:51 move on to that point later
0:13:53 there you go thank you
0:13:58 all right let me just put the it's
0:14:01 10 microphone well i'll do this then you
0:14:03 start yeah
0:14:04 because you want to slow down yeah okay
0:14:06 okay yeah do that one to 10 seconds as
0:14:08 well please yeah yeah
0:14:11 do again okay no problem ready okay okay
0:14:14 this seems to me like there is actually
0:14:17 on the first issue no disagreement the
0:14:18 only thing is a semantical disagreement
0:14:20 where he is saying at tab rasi yes yes
0:14:23 he might have believed in tahrir but why
0:14:25 did you mention him is he a classical
0:14:26 scholar or not
0:14:27 depends on how you define the term
0:14:28 classical in english language
0:14:30 usually things that happened in the
0:14:31 1900s are referred to as classical
0:14:33 things
0:14:33 now if you don't want to refer to him as
0:14:35 a classical scholar then i'll take it
0:14:36 back i haven't got a problem this
0:14:38 does nothing for our thesis the thesis
0:14:40 is that the
0:14:41 shia mainstream position or at least a
0:14:43 large number of mainstream heavyweight
0:14:45 shiite scholars
0:14:46 they believe that the quran has things
0:14:49 taken away from it
0:14:50 and things put into it and al-kulini
0:14:51 himself although he doesn't do taste
0:14:53 himself
0:14:54 which means he doesn't come up and say
0:14:55 generally himself he has a babe a
0:14:57 chapter
0:14:58 in his el cafe the the chapter of the
0:15:02 the fact that the
0:15:03 the quran
0:15:06 it did not come together in the time of
0:15:08 man wherein
0:15:10 it is actually put together it's only
0:15:12 for the ima
0:15:13 which means only for the imams now this
0:15:16 might be
0:15:17 shocking to some someone listening who
0:15:19 doesn't know about these things
0:15:21 and we'll say what's going on here why
0:15:23 is it that such a big alim
0:15:25 is putting this in his book the reason
0:15:26 why is because generally speaking there
0:15:28 was a desperation
0:15:30 there was a desperation early on in shia
0:15:33 thought
0:15:34 the fact that there was no verses of
0:15:35 imam in the quran
0:15:38 they had to try and invent something so
0:15:40 they had to say look
0:15:41 the quran itself it was originally
0:15:43 seventeen thousand words
0:15:45 and then it was seventeen thousand
0:15:46 verses and the verses were taken away
0:15:48 this is desperation
0:15:49 nothing but desperation which is why
0:15:50 you'll find interfero which is one of
0:15:52 the most acclaimed tafasir
0:15:54 in shiite circles that you have things
0:15:56 like
0:16:00 that you are the best community chosen
0:16:02 for humankind
0:16:03 he says
0:16:10 it was meant to say that you are the
0:16:11 best imams why because
0:16:13 then the sahaba what they did with their
0:16:15 devilish handiwork according to
0:16:16 me and others they must have taken away
0:16:18 these verses now
0:16:20 what he said about is nothing but
0:16:23 a lack of understanding of how the quran
0:16:25 was revealed to muhammad
0:16:28 i want to ask you a direct question
0:16:29 since you didn't answer my previous
0:16:30 direct questions
0:16:31 hopefully this time we're going to
0:16:32 answer this these direct questions my
0:16:34 direct question to you my friend
0:16:36 is what's the difference between a half
0:16:38 and a kira
0:16:40 what is the difference according to
0:16:41 sunni scholarship since you are reading
0:16:43 our books and i'm sure you've been
0:16:44 educated what's the difference between a
0:16:46 half and the kid he said it's not part
0:16:48 of the
0:16:54 if you cannot answer these questions
0:16:56 then what i will have to do my friend
0:16:57 and i'm
0:16:58 saying this will respect i will have to
0:16:59 educate you you're saying i wasn't
0:17:01 educating you in the first video
0:17:02 but i will certainly hopefully educate
0:17:04 you here today because this is an
0:17:06 important thing
0:17:07 if you don't know what the hera is when
0:17:10 the quran was being revealed to prophet
0:17:12 muhammad
0:17:14 it was being revealed denied more than
0:17:16 one
0:17:17 then after that is it finished sorry
0:17:20 then after that there was
0:17:23 means the final thing which was revealed
0:17:24 to muhammad in ramadan this is the quran
0:17:26 that we have
0:17:28 in front of us today
0:17:32 also you're saying it's not basically
0:17:34 the recitation
0:17:37 okay okay
0:17:40 okay um as we mentioned you can find
0:17:43 many a hadith what we find is that the
0:17:45 strongest
0:17:45 are hadith that we have do not say that
0:17:47 the names of the imams alaim salaam were
0:17:49 mentioned in the holy quran
0:17:50 however what we do is we accept these
0:17:52 hadiths and as we say it's extra
0:17:53 elucidation on the verse which is also
0:17:55 wahi but not part
0:17:56 of the holy quran as i said with tabarsi
0:18:00 if you want to bring an isolated book
0:18:01 now
0:18:02 as i said the ulama they differ about
0:18:04 this but some people have cursed this
0:18:05 book some people say that he wrote it
0:18:06 just to collect narrations and some even
0:18:08 say that his student
0:18:09 student ava bozor tehrani said he
0:18:10 repented so i'd write likewise
0:18:12 as i said bringing this book and it
0:18:14 shows that both of them you may condemn
0:18:15 them
0:18:15 but both of them have books on taharif
0:18:18 now you also said that um
0:18:21 about the 17 000 ayat well as i said
0:18:23 it's not um
0:18:25 an authentic narration however we also
0:18:26 have one of omar saying that there's
0:18:27 more than a million letters in the quran
0:18:30 that would show a increase in the holy
0:18:33 quran
0:18:34 and you said that it's not tahrif
0:18:37 well what i would say is that the
0:18:38 salafis are constantly trying to
0:18:40 accuse us of shoot themselves in the
0:18:43 foot because as we have here the well
0:18:45 known anti-shia writer muhammad hijab
0:18:48 said
0:18:49 it's not tahrir it's not tahrir what he
0:18:52 tries to do is
0:18:53 this exact same reading that's mentioned
0:18:54 for ahmadinejad
0:18:56 in this book he tries to attribute it
0:18:58 and say oh they have something for
0:18:59 example for imam sadaqa
0:19:01 salaam saying this and the book is
0:19:03 however we cannot verify the book
0:19:04 because it has over four different
0:19:06 they attributed to four different
0:19:07 authors so it's not reliable itself so
0:19:11 here he would himself regard this as
0:19:14 being taharif because he mentions this
0:19:15 in shia for muhammad
0:19:17 he obviously himself he doesn't regard
0:19:19 it as being
0:19:21 so what i would say is that thank you
0:19:22 for admitting on that point that you
0:19:24 mentioned
0:19:24 someone okay he's not a classical
0:19:25 scholar it's not about the words we're
0:19:27 saying that okay you mentioned classical
0:19:29 scholars
0:19:29 the other quotes that you gave i'm not
0:19:31 obliged to reply to them because you
0:19:32 didn't mention them in your video
0:19:34 so if you want to keep bringing more it
0:19:35 will go on and we won't be able to get
0:19:36 through the points you said in your
0:19:37 video
0:19:38 that classical shia scholarship and you
0:19:41 mentioned tabrasi as someone who is a
0:19:43 classical shia scholar
0:19:44 kulaini and majulici these are other
0:19:46 cases that can obviously be
0:19:48 spoken at another point now what i want
0:19:49 to say also is regarding the other point
0:19:52 where you mentioned about taharif um i
0:19:54 asked about question asara from khomeini
0:19:56 because you said it obviously is a big
0:19:57 share
0:19:58 for the scholars have you did you bring
0:19:59 the book with you did you bring the
0:20:01 original quote from his book because i
0:20:02 would obviously like to know that
0:20:04 because as we find we find in one of his
0:20:05 books that he confirms that the quran is
0:20:08 without change and he actually says that
0:20:10 he doesn't believe in taharif
0:20:12 so if we're able if we want to negate
0:20:14 this we have to prove that the other was
0:20:15 a quote said by him where he says
0:20:16 i believe that the quran has been
0:20:18 changed i'm saying it's not hurt you up
0:20:19 on me anyway but in his book he clearly
0:20:21 shows that
0:20:22 he doesn't believe in tahrir and you can
0:20:23 see the page number after now i won't
0:20:25 waste time opening it up
0:20:26 so um please if you could help no i
0:20:29 don't believe in tahrir but what i say
0:20:31 is that if i you asked me about the
0:20:33 ahref question i'm trying to remember
0:20:34 your points as well i don't
0:20:35 think i'm avoiding them i would say that
0:20:37 before you ask me about your ahref and
0:20:39 how many ahraf there are
0:20:40 you should probably go to your own
0:20:41 scholars
0:20:44 he mentions here that the seven ahref
0:20:46 there's a deal of difference 35 to 40
0:20:49 different opinions
0:20:50 so the scholars of that sunnah
0:20:51 themselves can't even agree
0:20:53 and define what the ahrefs even are so
0:20:56 how am i meant to know what the afro
0:20:57 foreign
0:20:58 okay have i lost yeah okay yeah go ahead
0:21:01 yeah that's fun
0:21:02 have you got my questions as well yes of
0:21:04 course
0:21:07 i'm very happy i'm very very happy of
0:21:10 where this discussion has gone i'm very
0:21:11 very happy
0:21:12 the fact that we've been able to
0:21:13 establish today that
0:21:16 these things have been said these new
0:21:17 these makha have been said these
0:21:19 extracts have been taken out of the
0:21:20 books of the major shia alama we have a
0:21:22 representative in the show with all of
0:21:24 his books
0:21:24 and he did not deny the fact that
0:21:28 and whoever else i mentioned in the
0:21:31 previous
0:21:31 speech did in fact believe in tahari now
0:21:35 as for
0:21:36 he didn't deny the fact as for the point
0:21:39 now you must understand something i'm
0:21:42 going to ask you a question he just said
0:21:43 he does not believe
0:21:44 in tariff which means he does not
0:21:45 believe the quran has anything taken
0:21:47 out of it or put into it yes
0:21:50 and then i asked him do you believe he
0:21:52 said your own scholars don't even know
0:21:53 what
0:21:54 and then he quotes a contemporary
0:21:56 obviously i mean and he could have
0:21:57 chosen anything else he could read
0:21:58 arabic why didn't he choose
0:22:00 jesse for example but he chose a
0:22:01 contemporary because maybe it's in
0:22:03 english it's easy for someone like him
0:22:04 to read
0:22:05 but having said this i want to i want to
0:22:08 put something very straightforward to
0:22:09 him
0:22:10 now if you go to a masjid which is in
0:22:13 london
0:22:14 with moroccans they're going to read
0:22:16 with wha
0:22:21 they say what she believes
0:22:32 now the question is you've got three
0:22:33 options either you say the quran has
0:22:35 been changed
0:22:38 and the muslims have not been able to
0:22:40 preserve the quran
0:22:42 or you say no no actually i don't
0:22:44 believe in that in fact what i believe
0:22:45 is that those people
0:22:47 who call themselves muslims which are
0:22:48 not actually muslim sunnis
0:22:50 because every sunni or anybody who calls
0:22:52 themselves sunni whether they are
0:22:53 diabandi
0:22:54 whether they are ichwani whether they
0:22:56 are salafi hanafi
0:22:58 bharavi anyone who dies calls himself a
0:23:01 sunni believes in the quran even the
0:23:03 ahmadis who are not muslim
0:23:04 they believe in the qra my question to
0:23:08 you
0:23:08 directly is are you saying malik
0:23:12 is a distortion yes or no all the
0:23:15 muslims say it's not a distortion
0:23:17 it's a half that's represented in the
0:23:20 kerala
0:23:21 and what are your what's your direct
0:23:23 reply to that
0:23:24 either the quran has not been preserved
0:23:27 or number two
0:23:28 the quran has been preserved but only
0:23:30 within your small sect
0:23:31 of let's say or other
0:23:34 tell me now is this your position do you
0:23:36 believe that everyone else is a kafir
0:23:38 or do you believe here that the muslims
0:23:41 have preserved the quran
0:23:42 the quran has been preserved with the
0:23:43 muslims
0:23:48 chapter 15 verse 9 we have certainly
0:23:49 sent down the book
0:23:51 and certainly allah will protect it so
0:23:54 this is exactly what allah
0:23:56 meant and this is what we're saying here
0:23:59 direct question is this or is this
0:24:03 a legitimate stylistic difference
0:24:06 which is sanctioned by prophet muhammad
0:24:08 through allah
0:24:18 okay
0:24:22 what's happening it's okay don't worry
0:24:24 about it go ahead
0:24:26 where do you want to rest
0:24:31 okay now as i said uh you haven't
0:24:34 answered my question i want to know
0:24:35 about the question
0:24:36 and the khomeini i'm not discussing
0:24:38 that's a different discussion and that's
0:24:40 something to go into
0:24:40 yeah there are differences between the
0:24:42 shia scholars pertaining to the terra
0:24:44 art some of them for example may say
0:24:46 that okay they don't accept wash some of
0:24:47 them do
0:24:48 and these things um actually no i wasn't
0:24:50 quoting just from yesterday
0:24:51 however he quotes from his um different
0:24:54 scholars within his book it's not from
0:24:55 his opinion so he's bringing
0:24:57 different um like ibm um
0:25:00 and other scholars um in here like uh
0:25:03 papari and others where he quotes the
0:25:05 opinions regarding the afro from what
0:25:07 they say about
0:25:08 so me myself i'm not just merely quoting
0:25:10 i'm saying you're asking me about that
0:25:12 myself and what i'm saying is that your
0:25:14 scholars cannot agree on
0:25:16 but you confirmed to me that okay uthman
0:25:18 burned your quran and he burned your
0:25:20 ahref
0:25:20 so what uthman did is that he took all
0:25:23 of these ahrefs apparently
0:25:25 he mentions here according to one of
0:25:26 your scholars it was due to some divine
0:25:28 inspiration
0:25:29 that uthman did so he decided to burn
0:25:32 the quran
0:25:32 so the problematic issue about this is
0:25:34 one of your salafi authors has admitted
0:25:36 this is tahrir
0:25:37 and he shows that this but he doesn't
0:25:39 know that it's from omar he thinks it's
0:25:40 one one of our imams
0:25:42 so he admits that's taharif in there but
0:25:44 what i'm saying is this does not exist
0:25:45 in the present and many people they
0:25:47 confuse
0:25:49 i'm saying this was one of the ahref and
0:25:52 it's not preserved today
0:25:53 and it's different from the quran that
0:25:54 we have today because what you'll say
0:25:56 when you debate with a lot of
0:25:57 non-muslims you will say that we
0:25:59 you know we accept the quran the quran
0:26:01 is one it's never been changed but what
0:26:03 i'm saying is that i'm not saying i
0:26:05 believe in tahrir
0:26:06 i'm saying myself that if i was to go
0:26:08 according to your narrative
0:26:10 i could never believe that the quran has
0:26:11 been preserved according to what your
0:26:13 sahaba said because
0:26:15 for example you might have believed like
0:26:16 two thirds of the quran is lost but
0:26:18 you in fact have six sevenths of your
0:26:20 quran lost and you don't have them so we
0:26:23 don't know what was mentioned in there
0:26:24 so it's obviously
0:26:25 if you want to say we believe in tahrir
0:26:26 for somehow scholars what i'm saying is
0:26:27 you didn't mention
0:26:28 these sources in your video if you had
0:26:30 mentioned them i would have discussed
0:26:31 them but please obviously ask
0:26:35 tell me about the hormani quote did you
0:26:36 actually check it yourself or was it
0:26:38 something like that was a google search
0:26:40 and your ahref as i said your scholars
0:26:41 themselves dispute over it and they gave
0:26:43 very big different definitions one of
0:26:45 them that was in the different le hajir
0:26:46 that was in the different um accents
0:26:49 some of them say no the sahaba could
0:26:51 change the quran themselves they could
0:26:52 change some of the readings you know
0:26:53 it's just a slight change but of course
0:26:56 it's not a divine change it's the sahaba
0:26:58 who change it themselves
0:26:59 and of course we find other sahaba who
0:27:01 recited
0:27:02 like the quran later on after the
0:27:05 burning after the uthmanik must-have
0:27:07 we find that abdullah bin nasal sorry
0:27:11 he recited
0:27:14 so god was still added in here and this
0:27:16 is after uthman burned all of this quran
0:27:19 yet you know we don't know what we've
0:27:21 lost in the quran if we accept this i'm
0:27:22 not saying
0:27:23 i'm accepting i'm saying it's my opinion
0:27:24 but i'm saying if i go to according to
0:27:26 what's in your books
0:27:27 i could not accept that the quran was in
0:27:29 fact preserved
0:27:30 because othman burned it and then later
0:27:32 on you've got your sahaba who are
0:27:33 confused
0:27:40 this is really really really interesting
0:27:42 the argument has become fuzzed out and
0:27:43 now he doesn't really know what to say
0:27:45 because he started by talking insisting
0:27:47 about kesha
0:27:49 for khomeini what why is khomeini such a
0:27:51 big deal for you you're shirazi
0:27:53 you believe in the you're the maruja for
0:27:57 you is not romani so let's
0:27:58 stop pretend you're actually helping him
0:28:01 anyway like this
0:28:02 he's not your mother you don't have
0:28:03 anything to do with him we've mentioned
0:28:05 other bigger scholars than
0:28:06 in khomeini i've mentioned the
0:28:09 emily why don't you deal with who is
0:28:12 like al-bukhari for us
0:28:15 are you why are we talking to me about
0:28:16 khomeini if you don't like romani
0:28:18 what i said about khomeini i retract it
0:28:20 no problem that's not an issue
0:28:21 not to say here that what he didn't say
0:28:23 in his book
0:28:25 wasn't what i read i said i read clearly
0:28:27 in the arabic you're saying no it wasn't
0:28:29 translated incorrectly i haven't done
0:28:30 that
0:28:31 the level of bath but i don't need to
0:28:32 because i've got bigger people
0:28:34 like saying the same things now
0:28:36 interesting he's talking about we don't
0:28:38 know what the
0:28:39 that wasn't my question i asked what's
0:28:40 the difference between i didn't
0:28:44 what's the difference between those two
0:28:45 things and he was not able to answer me
0:28:47 so now i'm going to have to tell him
0:28:48 the ashraf are representative of the
0:28:51 stylistic differences within the karat
0:28:54 so now we have a mechanism to explain
0:28:56 why there is malik and malik you have no
0:28:59 mechanism to explain
0:29:00 why is malik and malik now i'm asking
0:29:02 you
0:29:04 is malik tahrif yes or no is malik
0:29:07 or the king of the day of judgement wash
0:29:09 our nephew
0:29:10 is this tahrif or not and if you say yes
0:29:13 then the book of allah has been
0:29:14 not preserved point number two
0:29:17 asim asim who according to us
0:29:21 is the the sahab of the quran that we
0:29:23 both believe whether he is the person
0:29:25 who is in the chain of the kira that we
0:29:27 both accept let's say
0:29:28 which is hafsan ask him i dare you today
0:29:31 challenge okay what's the challenge
0:29:33 what's going on here no no no no no no
0:29:36 no
0:29:37 no no no the challenge is going to be as
0:29:39 follows my friend
0:29:40 you're going to bring your books because
0:29:41 you've got your books other than girls
0:29:42 got some notes because you gave me two
0:29:43 days of
0:29:44 notice for this but no problem i
0:29:46 challenge you
0:29:48 to tell me one rigid book
0:29:51 one rigid book from the shiites
0:29:55 that tell me who asim is who is ask him
0:29:58 you only know who asked him is because
0:30:01 we told you who he is
0:30:02 asim is in the sunni chain he's in the
0:30:05 sunni chain
0:30:06 you have no information he's major
0:30:09 unknown in the shia
0:30:10 book so you accept our chains that's why
0:30:11 you have to and it's in the video you
0:30:13 have to call it
0:30:14 your quran it is our quran you're right
0:30:16 it's
0:30:17 it's of course it's our quran because
0:30:18 it's our chain give me a chain i share a
0:30:20 chain
0:30:21 give me a shiite chain and give me the
0:30:23 rijal
0:30:24 the hadith that talk about arthem in
0:30:27 your books not our books
0:30:28 don't go into so into your rajal kishi
0:30:32 and go into your books
0:30:33 and tell me what mufi said he says it's
0:30:34 madhul i can tell you that from now
0:30:36 further
0:30:46 this is the fourth fourth one here so
0:30:48 we're gonna have one more
0:30:55 [Music]
0:31:02 half an hour
0:31:07 wait is this last three minutes on the
0:31:08 quran yes oh okay okay
0:31:10 sure um
0:31:14 okay now so muhammad hijab he mentioned
0:31:18 of course the points on the video he
0:31:20 failed
0:31:21 to um mention about pablo as i said
0:31:24 he wasn't a classical scholar so you're
0:31:25 wrong in that as i said i've heard about
0:31:27 these quotes i've seen the lists online
0:31:28 on their blogs where they see
0:31:29 major shia scholars who believe in
0:31:30 tahrir i'm not you
0:31:32 falsely attributed to me that are what i
0:31:34 firm it i didn't say i affirm it i say
0:31:35 these points were not mentioned in your
0:31:37 video and they can be discussed at
0:31:38 another time
0:31:39 i said you're off at the end of the day
0:31:40 it was burned so it's um
0:31:42 some some of your scholars also say for
0:31:44 example here we find that yes
0:31:46 says that the companion basically that
0:31:48 the opinion is very strange
0:31:50 and problematic that uthman in fact left
0:31:53 these
0:31:54 out and then you didn't answer the point
0:31:55 about
0:31:58 later on after abdullah who used to
0:32:01 delete some of the soras of the quran
0:32:03 and um you know he he admits this
0:32:05 himself
0:32:07 was reciting the quran this way so that
0:32:09 if a non-muslim comes to you and he says
0:32:10 okay show me your quran is completely
0:32:12 preserved in one way
0:32:13 he'll find that there are many different
0:32:16 discrepancies in terms of the swords and
0:32:20 in the wording now you say about the art
0:32:22 i'm not here to discuss
0:32:24 but you in fact in this we have the scan
0:32:26 here i can give it to you after
0:32:27 you actually have shi people in the
0:32:29 chains of some of your
0:32:31 art one of them being hamran bin ayon
0:32:34 al-khufi
0:32:35 who was the brother of zurara and he was
0:32:37 actually a companion of imam sadiq
0:32:39 alaihissalam who sheikh tulsi confirms
0:32:41 so even in your you have people who are
0:32:44 shii
0:32:45 in here so we can say that no it's not
0:32:46 your quran in fact uh
0:32:48 you take it from shiites and also the
0:32:50 salafis they like to say other people
0:32:52 like ashari's a deviant
0:32:53 but they took many of their science from
0:32:55 ashari's and people who they they would
0:32:57 consider deviant so for me
0:32:59 if allah subhanahu wa is the one who
0:33:01 says
0:33:02 the quran is preserved it's not my it's
0:33:04 not really my problem i just see that
0:33:05 it's being preserved you know
0:33:07 that's how it is but i'm saying
0:33:08 according to your text you've lost six
0:33:10 sevenths of your quran
0:33:11 you have narrators in this chain
0:33:15 and of course as i said you failed to
0:33:16 answer my point um one of your salafi
0:33:18 writers
0:33:20 he clearly said that this reading was
0:33:22 tahrif so
0:33:24 you didn't answer that of course and you
0:33:26 said that you read it in arabic i've
0:33:27 already said that's not reliable i said
0:33:28 bring me the original one of khamenei
0:33:30 i may not follow him myself but i'm
0:33:32 saying the point that i'm trying to make
0:33:33 is that you said
0:33:34 romanian question he believes in tariff
0:33:36 you're trying to say that because he is
0:33:38 taken as a big shia scholar for sums for
0:33:39 some of the shitty
0:33:40 but you didn't back up your claim in the
0:33:42 video so tabaresi himself he wrote
0:33:45 i accept that but you have um this one
0:33:47 al-fur
0:33:48 which was written on tariff and as well
0:33:50 not everyone who believes in taharif
0:33:52 i know you like regent's park mosque
0:33:53 actually the imam i spoke to him there
0:33:55 and i have witnesses of that i said does
0:33:57 anyone who believes in tahari if you see
0:33:59 necessarily a kafir
0:34:00 that imam said that no we have to find
0:34:02 out exactly why
0:34:03 they believe in tahrir but what we would
0:34:05 say is
0:34:08 they believed in a different quran and
0:34:10 they deleted some of the sorrows of this
0:34:12 quran
0:34:12 and they in fact recited after the
0:34:15 uthmanic
0:34:16 um all the other ashraf were burnt and
0:34:18 this goes to show what
0:34:20 okay
0:34:24 regions park mosque wait a minute my
0:34:27 friend
0:34:28 has this discussion degenerated to the
0:34:32 extent
0:34:34 of regents park mosque what the hell is
0:34:37 going on here
0:34:39 i went and i have witnesses i spoke to
0:34:40 the imam in region spark mosque
0:34:43 the people are watching this my friend
0:34:46 no seriously
0:34:47 what kind of authority is that is this
0:34:50 the desperation now that you're
0:34:52 reaching region spot mosque no i'm not
0:34:55 going to waste my time
0:34:56 with this you keep mentioning it
0:35:01 it's the wrong semantics if you don't
0:35:02 want to accept him as classical fine
0:35:04 he's contemporary
0:35:06 done don't waste time you're wasting our
0:35:08 time seriously
0:35:12 were not burnt the ashraf were not burnt
0:35:14 the aft still
0:35:19 who is a real authority you're talking
0:35:20 about yes i mean sorry with due respect
0:35:22 to everyone who speaks in english
0:35:24 anyone who speaks in english but yes
0:35:26 they compare him now to the to the
0:35:28 alameda
0:35:28 to the to the authorities are we are we
0:35:31 being serious here
0:35:33 come on man come on man read the book
0:35:35 read
0:35:36 reach out to his works then tell me
0:35:38 about karate
0:35:40 come on english book come on come on
0:35:42 come on then you talk about ibm
0:35:45 and what he's referring to is not
0:35:47 knowing that he actually retracted that
0:35:49 statement
0:35:50 when he was part of the legend he was
0:35:52 part of the legend that he didn't
0:35:53 he didn't think that the quran he knew
0:35:56 that
0:35:57 but he didn't think they were part of
0:35:58 bukhari but then he retracted this
0:36:00 afterwards when he was in the legend
0:36:02 there was the ijmah he retracted it
0:36:04 why didn't you mention that and you keep
0:36:06 talking to me
0:36:07 about uh and then you talk to me about
0:36:10 and who for us is not is
0:36:14 what are you talking about and by the
0:36:16 way let me tell you something about the
0:36:17 books of hadith
0:36:18 when shiaism is mentioned in our books
0:36:23 it means that the person believed that
0:36:24 aus ousmane shouldn't have been
0:36:26 in charge and rather ali should have
0:36:27 been in judge
0:36:29 and you're still relying on our books
0:36:32 you're still relying on our books i've
0:36:33 challenged you and you have not been
0:36:34 able to meet the challenge which is get
0:36:36 something from your books get me a chain
0:36:39 get me a shia chain of the quran if you
0:36:41 have no chain
0:36:42 you have no quran you have to depend
0:36:44 upon the sunnis quran
0:36:46 with all the sunnis narrators in there
0:36:49 you have to rely upon asim and hafs and
0:36:52 abu abdul
0:37:03 is he the one who was supervising it are
0:37:06 you mad
0:37:08 are you mad this is incredibly
0:37:11 contentious anyway i think with this
0:37:15 how long do i have left ten one minute
0:37:18 ten seconds believe me i don't need it
0:37:34 i have to read the objection of course
0:37:40 now it's just i can read your initial
0:37:42 objection that you made in the video
0:37:44 of course and then you know so yeah
0:37:50 okay so uh oh wait is he starting
0:38:19 okay you said argument well it wasn't
0:38:21 really an argument you gave a
0:38:22 definition you said a sahabi as someone
0:38:24 who uh
0:38:26 he met the prophet was a believer and
0:38:27 died upon islam and they're seen at the
0:38:30 transmitters of the revelation well
0:38:31 first off this definition is not the
0:38:33 only one from this one of the men
0:38:34 luckily
0:38:36 your definition for us it doesn't filter
0:38:37 out the hypocrites of course
0:38:39 such a definition could include babies
0:38:41 because the baby could meet the prophet
0:38:45 it muhammad even say a time limit on how
0:38:47 long they should meet and also you find
0:38:48 like bukhari for example
0:38:50 he mentioned that
0:38:55 so this we see with bukhari we see very
0:38:58 loose definitions of what you say
0:39:00 are sahaba because obviously you believe
0:39:02 that many sahaba like or they mean says
0:39:04 114 000 sahaba are all just and that
0:39:07 will be in jannah for example
0:39:09 um this definition basically means
0:39:11 anyone who met the prophet
0:39:13 man sahib and maybe he met the prophet
0:39:15 one for one
0:39:17 moment and or he saw the prophet he was
0:39:19 just a muslim
0:39:20 he is a sahabi according to this
0:39:22 definition so you mentioned one
0:39:23 definition but you didn't mention the
0:39:24 more problematic ones
0:39:26 now what argument five you mentioned is
0:39:28 al-qaeda the second most authoritative
0:39:29 book for the shiite says that all the
0:39:31 sahaba were
0:39:31 apostates except for abu dhabi
0:39:35 and these are the three sahabah who are
0:39:37 not apostates according to the shia
0:39:39 tradition
0:39:40 so how do you explain the concept of the
0:39:42 rajyan please answer me on that that's
0:39:43 all i've got to say
0:39:51 i keep forgetting i don't know what you
0:39:52 meant by the last question
0:40:07 who are not apostates according to the
0:40:09 sheer traditions and you said
0:40:10 um by the way brothers i don't want to
0:40:11 violate the rules of you yeah no i'm
0:40:13 okay you're going okay
0:40:14 just to make the question clear if i
0:40:15 don't understand your partner please
0:40:16 please
0:40:17 yes yes of course i'm saying you're
0:40:18 saying to the shia according to the shia
0:40:20 tradition
0:40:21 okay these free sahaba were the
0:40:24 apostates
0:40:24 um they were not the apostate story and
0:40:26 all the others have apostates of course
0:40:28 you made that point yeah
0:40:29 so i'm saying what do you say about our
0:40:30 concept of the rajyong
0:40:32 because i'm saying um i can elaborate on
0:40:35 that on the other
0:40:36 okay that's fine now let me let me let
0:40:37 me let me start with what we say
0:40:39 yeah i'll start now first thing he said
0:40:42 is that there's a loose definition
0:40:44 of the sahabah according to me
0:40:48 this is what the sunni thing is you know
0:40:50 whoever meets the the prophet muhammed
0:40:53 and he was a mukmin and then he died
0:40:54 upon that he said what about children of
0:40:55 course
0:40:56 the scholars of hadith and of islam have
0:40:58 mentioned the
0:40:59 the prohibitions of for example a child
0:41:01 narrating hadith over a certain age so
0:41:03 this stuff is mentioned this is called
0:41:04 tafsil so the stuff of like okay
0:41:06 children and these kinds of things and
0:41:08 okay
0:41:09 and the definition as he's mentioned
0:41:10 doesn't uh does not
0:41:12 does not describe the hypocrites because
0:41:15 i mean the thing is
0:41:16 of course that would be an exception and
0:41:17 how do we know that if
0:41:23 page 467 and 470 to 474
0:41:27 has mentioned a whole list of the
0:41:29 hypocrites and based on
0:41:31 evidences why because here we have
0:41:35 which means we have a general principle
0:41:37 based on the quranic verses
0:41:40 which i'm going to tell you now which
0:41:41 i've mentioned in the video which you
0:41:42 have no response to my friend
0:41:45 yes of course you should we should have
0:41:46 no response to my friend
0:41:48 these quranic verses which clearly tell
0:41:51 us that the muhajiri
0:41:52 and the ansar who are 99.9 percent of
0:41:55 the narrators of the sahaba
0:41:58 that they are basically
0:42:01 mentioned in the quran so here let's go
0:42:04 first here
0:42:05 you said that this question this
0:42:06 definition is so loose but look
0:42:10 one of the big scholars in emeline
0:42:14 yeah in volume 1
0:42:18 page number 83 what does it say
0:42:21 he says anyone who is companion with the
0:42:23 with jafar
0:42:24 sadiq we have no reason to deny him wait
0:42:26 a minute
0:42:28 say that again okay no no problem
0:42:31 no problem what i'm saying here my
0:42:33 friend is that the definition
0:42:36 that you have just criticized is your
0:42:38 definition of
0:42:41 who is adam yeah
0:42:44 who is just according to your main one
0:42:47 of your main scholars
0:42:49 the same definition you reject is
0:42:51 accepted by them
0:42:52 now of course how long we've got left
0:42:55 one minute oh of course there's verses
0:42:56 in the quran
0:43:09 this is one verse of the quran where it
0:43:11 says that the sabbath
0:43:12 the ones who are the forerunners of the
0:43:14 muhajirean of the mohajri meaning the
0:43:16 ones who did
0:43:17 hijrah who went from mecca to madinah
0:43:19 and the ansar
0:43:21 that allah is pleased with them and he
0:43:22 is pleased with them and they are
0:43:23 pleased with him
0:43:28 and he is prepared for them gardens
0:43:32 are you rejecting this where it says in
0:43:35 chapter number
0:43:36 yes another verse of the quran which
0:43:37 we'll come to insha allah
0:43:51 so we just saw that you mentioned some
0:43:53 points we said that this
0:43:54 includes anyone the imams themselves we
0:43:56 see that they were the ones who used to
0:43:57 recommend us for example and
0:43:58 give us the qualities of who to check
0:44:00 and as to who is
0:44:02 trustworthy companion and they would
0:44:03 mention some of them by names
0:44:05 now the fact that you muhammad hijab in
0:44:07 your video you say it's educational
0:44:08 but you don't even know of our concept
0:44:10 of the raju um that's quite problematic
0:44:12 and that is quite concerning for me
0:44:14 because you said in your video
0:44:16 that according to the shia tradition the
0:44:19 free who did not become kafur was
0:44:24 now to mention what is the uh what do we
0:44:26 say about this hadith we say that this
0:44:27 type of heir tidal was pertaining
0:44:29 to the khadir pledge we don't say that
0:44:31 all sahaba became kuffar
0:44:33 except these three so please learn that
0:44:35 concept if you want to keep
0:44:36 insisting on that because i want to know
0:44:37 okay were you right or wrong on that
0:44:39 point answer that
0:44:40 we take for example sahabi like abdullah
0:44:42 al-ansari
0:44:43 who of course we praise and he was
0:44:45 around the time he was a very old
0:44:47 companion he was around the time of imam
0:44:49 alaihissalam
0:44:50 and we also have able to fail so what we
0:44:51 would say is that you mentioned on the
0:44:53 video that three sahabah who are not
0:44:55 apostates according to the shia
0:44:56 tradition you said the sheer tradition
0:44:58 you were wrong on this point and you
0:44:59 don't know that we actually say that
0:45:00 there actually were
0:45:02 many sahaba who did come back but what
0:45:03 we say that yes after
0:45:05 the prophet muhammad we say that there
0:45:07 was a period of shaken sahab and we say
0:45:09 zubaid you know zubaid for example
0:45:11 he was with imam ali alaihissalam in the
0:45:12 early shia book of kitab
0:45:14 in the beginning so this hadith is not
0:45:16 taken literal in a way that oh we
0:45:18 believe all of them are kuffar
0:45:19 and one has to have a holistic reading
0:45:21 of all that hadith together to see that
0:45:23 we praise other companions otherwise why
0:45:24 would we praise jabal and abdullah and
0:45:26 say oh he's not the car
0:45:27 you know he's not a kafir or something
0:45:29 we accept him also so this
0:45:31 goes to show that what you mentioned in
0:45:32 the video and i'm coming to the verses
0:45:34 by the way
0:45:36 meaning the ones you mentioned um this
0:45:38 goes to show that your statement in the
0:45:39 video you're saying it's educational
0:45:41 video
0:45:41 now i want you to take it back because
0:45:43 you were not aware of the
0:45:44 concept we have of the rajya on and
0:45:46 those sahaba who came back we can say
0:45:48 maybe in the hundreds we don't say all
0:45:50 of them
0:45:50 but i'm saying that okay the um you
0:45:52 mentioned one of the verses but i'll get
0:45:53 on to the verses after that
0:45:55 but i'm saying that what we are saying
0:45:56 is problematic is we're saying that okay
0:45:58 we have different how many how much time
0:46:00 have i got one minute
0:46:01 we're saying us we have different
0:46:03 categories of sahabah the problem with
0:46:04 the salafis is that they try to say that
0:46:06 we don't hold any regard for them if you
0:46:07 go to al hisal
0:46:08 you see that there's twelve thousand
0:46:10 people that imam
0:46:12 hadith sadiq allah that he says were
0:46:14 pious sahaba and they did not have any
0:46:16 love for the dunya
0:46:17 we also have this 12 000 we also have
0:46:20 here
0:46:21 and sahib it is
0:46:24 he in fact praises the sahaba and he
0:46:26 says those who did well in companionship
0:46:28 and left those
0:46:29 their homes so these ones that you're
0:46:30 mentioning before we don't uh
0:46:32 negate that we're saying people such as
0:46:33 some of your companions abu bakr ahmad
0:46:35 was saying are they from the mukmini
0:46:37 are they really mutmans themselves so as
0:46:39 i said that we respect those sahaba and
0:46:41 these sahaba
0:46:42 above our heads and nor do we say that
0:46:44 according to the shia tradition what you
0:46:45 mentioned in your video it's an
0:46:46 educational video
0:46:48 free sahaba are only muslims and the
0:46:51 rest are
0:46:51 far according to shia tradition please
0:46:52 answer that
0:47:08 yes
0:47:12 the first thing he mentioned about the
0:47:13 rajawan he clarified to me what he meant
0:47:16 he meant the people that didn't do they
0:47:18 basically were shaken and
0:47:19 to death and things like that that's
0:47:20 fine you are here to educate me on
0:47:22 shiamatis what would you think we are
0:47:23 here
0:47:24 to be arroga to arrogate upon you in
0:47:26 terms of your own matters that you have
0:47:28 all these books of course you know more
0:47:29 about me than she hasn't
0:47:30 of course you do that's why we brought
0:47:31 you here my friend so of course where
0:47:33 you see that something is not
0:47:34 educational it's your job
0:47:36 to try and say okay well this is what it
0:47:38 means isn't that i'm sure you don't know
0:47:39 many concepts
0:47:40 from a certainly perspective so yeah we
0:47:42 can educate each other that's not a
0:47:43 problem point number two jabal ansari
0:47:45 and others okay i accept that you accept
0:47:49 that there are some sahaba
0:47:50 other than the ones that were mentioned
0:47:52 in the hadith of the three there are
0:47:54 that are basically muslim but here's the
0:47:57 point
0:47:58 listen to this listen to this
0:48:02 you have a hadith which conflict each
0:48:04 other wait a minute what did i say i'll
0:48:06 tell you what i said
0:48:08 you'll find in you'll find in a book
0:48:11 called
0:48:12 written by written
0:48:16 compiled by me compiled by
0:48:32 yeah so okay you've educated me
0:48:34 something to do with shia matas and i'll
0:48:35 educate you sometimes with shia matas as
0:48:37 well
0:48:40 in his book he mentions a hadith which
0:48:44 is narrated by abi abi
0:48:46 abdullah who
0:48:49 says that the sahaba of the prophet
0:49:01 means muhammed 000 i know you love the
0:49:04 number 12.
0:49:04 we'll come to that 12 000 the maniac
0:49:08 8 000 bill medina
0:49:12 uh um
0:49:23 so this is twelve thousand mentioned now
0:49:26 you just said there's hundreds of sahaba
0:49:28 not according to your books this is a
0:49:29 hadith narrated
0:49:31 if you look at the books of rajel you
0:49:33 won't find any [ __ ] in the chain and by
0:49:34 the way when you talked about the thing
0:49:35 that the hadith about immediately before
0:49:37 the 17 000 ayat you didn't mention why
0:49:39 it's weak you just said it's weak
0:49:42 that's not good enough we're in an
0:49:43 academic discussion you tell me why it's
0:49:44 weak
0:49:45 anyways the same thing here if you want
0:49:47 to say this is hadith week
0:49:48 tell me why who's weak in the chain tell
0:49:51 me who's weak
0:49:52 anyways you'll find that in najashi all
0:49:55 of the rajal according to
0:49:56 najashi are strong
0:49:59 so the hadith is strong now what is more
0:50:03 shocking than this
0:50:04 ladies and gentlemen is that jafar sadiq
0:50:08 yes he was asked one time about what
0:50:12 happened with the prophet's
0:50:14 friends
0:50:18 he said wait a minute
0:50:21 what does that mean he said did they lie
0:50:23 or were they telling the truth the
0:50:25 friends of the
0:50:26 of the of the prophet says they
0:50:28 certainly told the truth
0:50:29 he said well i saw so many between them
0:50:31 so much difference of opinion between
0:50:33 them
0:50:34 in your own books it's saying
0:50:38 he says but sometimes you know you have
0:50:39 these situations where
0:50:41 you have the situation okay the time is
0:50:44 up so i'm not gonna
0:50:45 continue but the hadith is there and
0:50:47 it's strong
0:50:59 let's see
0:51:06 okay can i stop
0:51:12 yep now basically what i'm going to say
0:51:14 is that you're the one
0:51:15 mohammed you're saying it's an
0:51:16 educational video so um
0:51:19 you're giving education to the people
0:51:20 about it it's not my problem you said
0:51:23 all of we believe all sabbah for far
0:51:24 except free and that wasn't mentioned
0:51:26 now
0:51:26 what i say about that is that i just i
0:51:28 don't know why you mentioned that hadith
0:51:29 because i just talked about it maybe
0:51:31 because i didn't quote it i'll give you
0:51:32 a benefit of the doubt
0:51:33 i was mentioning the exact same hadith
0:51:35 which is talking in
0:51:36 which is talking about the sahaba before
0:51:38 the prophet muhammad sallallahu
0:51:40 alaihi and it's talking about those who
0:51:42 were pious so this is in that context
0:51:44 i'm saying after that yes we believe
0:51:46 that these sahaba
0:51:48 these ones came back and it this was a
0:51:50 point that you mentioned on the video
0:51:51 where you said that the shia tradition
0:51:53 is that we believe all will go far
0:51:55 except free so this point is answered
0:51:57 you made you admit you were wrong on it
0:51:58 there's no point in to go more deep the
0:52:00 next point that you mentioned as well
0:52:02 is that i believe the narration was weak
0:52:04 well actually one of the brothers
0:52:05 i believe the narrating is muhammad ibn
0:52:07 sayyar um
0:52:09 if i'm not mistaken i could be mistaken
0:52:10 but he was mixed up with another
0:52:11 narrator and one of the brothers
0:52:12 actually he
0:52:13 did a research on that but you mentioned
0:52:16 the verses so you said that
0:52:18 well they come actually these verses
0:52:20 come later so i'm going to do it in
0:52:21 order because it has to be systematic
0:52:23 the next argument i say so to sum up
0:52:25 that point i say the shia i
0:52:26 do not believe that all the sahaba were
0:52:28 kuffar except free
0:52:29 and that was the wrong information you
0:52:31 gave me your video argument six you said
0:52:32 imam ali alaihissalam
0:52:34 said it didn't say to free successors
0:52:36 you know i believe your kuffar and this
0:52:37 isn't in our books
0:52:39 and it isn't in their books you said
0:52:41 imam
0:52:43 he said according to our books um you
0:52:46 said he never called abu bakr or macro
0:52:49 you said that in your video so what i've
0:52:51 done here for you
0:52:52 is that this is by one sheikh for chef
0:52:54 daniel pais although he wrote it before
0:52:56 he was a sheikh i've marked
0:52:57 the hadith and i've got hadiths here
0:52:59 where imam ali alayhi salaam
0:53:01 explicitly showed that he believes that
0:53:02 abu bakr and umar are disbelievers
0:53:05 so your point in this i'm not going to
0:53:06 talk talk according to your books i'm
0:53:08 saying you said according to shia books
0:53:10 that imam ali alayhi salaam didn't say
0:53:12 them for
0:53:18 about those who disbelieved um about the
0:53:21 sahaba et cetera
0:53:22 and he says he recites an ayah sorry
0:53:24 about abu bakr and he recites
0:53:26 ayah about those who get um
0:53:29 he says about the bay it's in the
0:53:30 context of the bay'a so he recites this
0:53:32 ayah as an example to show that those
0:53:34 who gave bay'a
0:53:35 to abu bakr they have died they have
0:53:37 disbelieved themselves
0:53:39 so this would go to show that if the
0:53:40 leader himself is
0:53:42 of course a believer then those who give
0:53:44 bay out of him would not be disbelievers
0:53:46 so um please can you give me some
0:53:48 clarity according to your point that you
0:53:50 said you know from our books
0:53:51 imam ali never called them there's many
0:53:54 other examples in our earliest book of
0:53:55 kitab salam
0:53:56 fatima tazhara she said she said that
0:53:59 um that you know you've lied and
0:54:00 disbelieved imam zainab
0:54:02 salam according to our book said about
0:54:04 abu bakr allah
0:54:07 so he said both of them fire and he gave
0:54:09 the final verdict so i'm saying when
0:54:10 you're talking to alberts you're saying
0:54:11 okay that's not my books
0:54:13 you said in the shia but go ahead
0:54:17 i can't i genuinely can't recall i'm not
0:54:20 going to say i did i didn't say this i
0:54:21 genuinely can't recall whether i said
0:54:23 that in the video or not
0:54:24 yeah whether i did or i didn't people
0:54:26 can go it's on us on youtube it's called
0:54:27 the real differences between jian sun
0:54:30 so you can check out the whole video
0:54:31 from beginning to end and of course
0:54:32 you're going to find out what i said and
0:54:33 what i didn't say if i did say
0:54:35 that's uh i mean it's easily i can put
0:54:36 it to the side it was a mistake i said
0:54:38 it has nothing to do with my overall
0:54:39 thesis
0:54:40 here you're focusing more on my errors
0:54:43 than you are on your thesis what you
0:54:46 have to prove
0:54:46 that's point number one point number two
0:54:48 here man this is really interesting
0:54:50 first you talk about
0:54:51 uh the hadith that you mentioned as
0:54:53 being not accepted at the dimension
0:54:55 sorry the three
0:54:56 except so it's not accepted you said you
0:54:57 don't accept there's only three
0:54:59 hadith yeah the sahabi
0:55:02 said one that you mentioned so you
0:55:04 accept the hadith yeah yeah i'm
0:55:05 accepted but i said it's in the context
0:55:06 of it okay finally but you don't say
0:55:07 it's only those three yeah yeah
0:55:09 okay fine so you don't say it's only
0:55:11 those three now
0:55:12 i've quoted you a yes in the quran i've
0:55:14 said rasulullah chapter 9 verse 100 but
0:55:16 we can look at chapter number 48 of the
0:55:17 quran as you wanted me to
0:55:19 verse number verse number 18 where it
0:55:20 says
0:55:28 that we have certainly we are certainly
0:55:30 pleased with the ones who
0:55:32 who
0:55:40 and we knew what was in their hearts and
0:55:42 we knew what was in their hearts
0:55:45 so we brought down the tranquility to
0:55:47 them
0:55:48 and we gave them a fat a conquest who is
0:55:51 it that the
0:55:52 fed it was all the people you do take
0:55:55 fear of
0:55:57 now let's be straightforward and
0:55:59 straight to the point
0:56:01 you have ayat in the quran you have your
0:56:03 own
0:56:04 scholarly uh hadiths that are being
0:56:06 authenticated by your hadith
0:56:08 they are saying that there's twelve
0:56:09 thousand there's twelve thousand sahabah
0:56:11 not a few hundreds as you tried to say
0:56:15 you have your own hadees from your own
0:56:17 books
0:56:18 that say that jafar sadiq has said
0:56:22 that the sahaba who did it with the nabi
0:56:25 with the with each other that they are
0:56:31 what have you got to say about that you
0:56:33 have said nothing about that
0:56:36 you have said nothing you said in our
0:56:37 books your books are not a hajj
0:56:40 for me and the muslims and the sunnis
0:56:43 your hadith which have been fabricated
0:56:45 and i'll prove insha'allah later on
0:56:47 your fabricated hadiths have nothing to
0:56:50 do with me
0:56:51 have zero to do with me give me
0:56:53 something from bukhari a muslim
0:56:55 give me your strongest possible evidence
0:56:59 that those who you called disbelievers
0:57:02 and you had the audacity in your channel
0:57:04 to put a fatwa of one of your so-called
0:57:07 scholars
0:57:07 who says let's dig up the graves of
0:57:10 obama
0:57:11 and of abu bakr let's dig up the graves
0:57:13 and you put this on your channel
0:57:14 and you yes i don't care the context
0:57:16 this is disgusting
0:57:17 vile things and furthermore you put on
0:57:20 your facebook
0:57:21 that we have to celebrate the death of
0:57:22 aisha give me your strongest evidence
0:57:25 that these individuals are kuffar
0:57:27 because the quran says otherwise what do
0:57:29 you have to say about that
0:57:40 okay time now again uh you actually
0:57:43 contradict yourself i'm coming to this
0:57:45 ayat if you can see um
0:57:47 it's on here's the argument these are
0:57:48 but i'm saying you're controlling
0:57:49 yourself you're saying i'm focusing on
0:57:51 specifics of you
0:57:52 now actually no because when we come to
0:57:54 a later point you said in your video
0:57:56 the issue with your thesis thesis is
0:57:59 that we believe the sahaba are not
0:58:00 muslims so you've said it in such a
0:58:02 general way
0:58:03 that you said we believe that sahabah
0:58:05 are not muslim and you've labeled that
0:58:06 as our thesis so i'm not just going on
0:58:07 particular points
0:58:08 i'm going through all of them you said
0:58:10 it's educational it doesn't matter if
0:58:13 my books are not a hajj upon you because
0:58:15 you said okay you're using my books
0:58:16 um you said it's not in my books i said
0:58:18 look let me not go into yours
0:58:20 i don't care about that at the moment
0:58:21 i'm saying you said in your video
0:58:22 educational video it's not in
0:58:24 our books nor it is in their books i'm
0:58:26 saying that after this i can show you
0:58:28 that
0:58:28 that is clearly mentioned in our books
0:58:31 maybe not a hardship for you but you
0:58:32 shouldn't have made the statement and
0:58:33 then say it's an educational educational
0:58:35 video so another point that i wanted to
0:58:37 mention is that yes
0:58:39 yeah you don't take my books books as a
0:58:40 huddle just as i read your books to
0:58:42 realize why i don't follow
0:58:43 uh your sect and you say my hadiths are
0:58:45 fabricated well
0:58:47 your hadiths many of them are narrated
0:58:49 by someone such as abdullah bin umar who
0:58:50 said
0:58:52 many of them are in fact narrated by our
0:58:54 isha according to your own hadiths who
0:58:56 can be proven
0:58:57 as someone who lied and lied to the
0:58:58 prophet muhammad
0:59:00 so if she has no shame in lying to the
0:59:02 prophet then of course i can't
0:59:04 trust many of your hadiths that come
0:59:05 from her which the kaffar in fact use
0:59:07 how much time have i got left two
0:59:09 minutes okay that's so what i'll do is
0:59:11 before i get to the eye out that you
0:59:12 mentioned we're going to discuss those i
0:59:14 want to mention
0:59:14 i have to do it systematically because i
0:59:15 don't want to contribute my words okay
0:59:17 so i'll we'll get to them inshaallah
0:59:18 ta'ala
0:59:19 so of course we show again that muhammad
0:59:21 on this video he was wrong about that he
0:59:22 said educational video um in our books
0:59:25 it clearly he says it says it doesn't
0:59:26 say that qafar it does
0:59:29 argument seven imam ali salam he had two
0:59:31 sons
0:59:32 named abu bakr and omar now you just
0:59:35 mentioned that you didn't say okay
0:59:36 according to what
0:59:37 um but can you provide to me a statement
0:59:40 where it was out of love for these
0:59:41 people
0:59:42 that um imam ali alaihissalam named that
0:59:44 i work
0:59:53 he named one of his sons sons abdul
0:59:54 rahman and it's mentioned in kitab
0:59:56 irshad i don't need to get it out as i
0:59:58 can show you after if you do want to see
0:59:59 it so unless i've got an explicit
1:00:01 statement saying that imam ali alayhi
1:00:02 islam
1:00:03 for his love for these individuals named
1:00:05 them i can't believe that or even uthman
1:00:06 there's a clear hadith in our books
1:00:08 where imam alayhi salam says i did not
1:00:10 name him after uthman
1:00:11 the chief of the kuffar so you have to
1:00:14 show me you said
1:00:15 if you want to use that as a point you
1:00:16 didn't mention whose book's from show me
1:00:18 clearly where imam ali alaihissalam out
1:00:19 of his love for these individuals
1:00:21 name them otherwise i say imam hasan
1:00:22 islam named his son abdul rahman of love
1:00:25 for the killer of his father whose name
1:00:27 was abdul rahman
1:00:29 thank you salafi logic selfie logic
1:00:33 selfie logic okay listen
1:00:35 i'm not here to represent a group of
1:00:37 people called the salafis
1:00:39 everyone that calls themselves sunni
1:00:41 would agree with what i'm saying
1:00:43 anyone who calls themselves sunni or
1:00:46 ascribes civilism to themselves
1:00:48 would agree with what i'm saying today
1:00:50 it's not about selfishness trying to
1:00:51 trying to break up uh trying to create
1:00:53 some kind of
1:00:55 break up within the muslims and say this
1:00:57 that's ridiculous
1:00:59 don't waste my time it's not salafi
1:01:00 logic this is sunni logic
1:01:02 this is everybody everybody agrees to
1:01:04 this that calls themselves sunni
1:01:06 everybody agrees with this wouldn't even
1:01:08 agree that the abandon would agree
1:01:10 that salafi would agree that hanafi
1:01:11 would agree everybody would agree
1:01:13 everyone would agree with what i'm
1:01:14 saying it's nothing to do with
1:01:15 television number two
1:01:17 the sahaba are not muslim you have
1:01:19 failed
1:01:21 what yes yes you have failed to provide
1:01:24 the evidences
1:01:25 i'm not taking your book as a hoja my
1:01:26 friend i take your book as a
1:01:29 lesser hajj than the bible let me just
1:01:30 be frank with you the bible of the
1:01:32 christians is a bigger hatred than your
1:01:34 book
1:01:35 don't give me your book as a hajjah that
1:01:37 oh my people said this in my book
1:01:38 it means nothing get me from ibooks
1:01:42 allah is not going to ask me what's in
1:01:44 your books
1:01:45 there's no reason for allah to ask me
1:01:47 there's no evidence for what you believe
1:01:48 in give me your give me your evidence
1:01:50 give me your strongest evidence from
1:01:51 quran
1:01:53 and from the sunnah that the kuffar that
1:01:55 you mentioned has go far ah
1:01:57 that's not waste time you said always
1:01:59 you said sahabah and you made it general
1:02:00 fine okay
1:02:01 no problem you know what i mean the
1:02:03 sahaba which we differ about
1:02:05 who we call sahaba that's what i'm
1:02:07 talking about bring the evidences
1:02:10 that they are far not for sack
1:02:13 not that they are evil doers and we know
1:02:16 that some of them drank
1:02:17 alcohol we know that some sahaba did
1:02:19 these things and some of them lied
1:02:21 they're not we are not coming from a
1:02:22 position where we are saying they are
1:02:23 infallibles
1:02:24 we are saying they are
1:02:27 [Music]
1:02:30 they are people of trustworthiness
1:02:33 we are saying innocent until proven
1:02:36 guilty innocent until proven guilty
1:02:38 give me your evidences my friend i
1:02:41 shall light you can't just spring upon
1:02:43 something like that who cares even if
1:02:45 she did lie
1:02:46 even if she did lie what does that show
1:02:48 that she's a fascicle that she's a liar
1:02:50 that's so sorry is that she's a
1:02:51 cathedral you have not proved your
1:02:53 thesis
1:02:54 you have not been able to prove your
1:02:55 thesis and once again you say oh
1:02:58 they only named their their sons give me
1:03:01 give me something to show the did it of
1:03:02 love okay i'm going to call my son
1:03:04 tomorrow
1:03:06 tony blair and i don't know george bush
1:03:08 but i don't need to do it from love
1:03:10 does it sound normal to you does it
1:03:12 sound normal for somebody and by the way
1:03:14 i ask him who you
1:03:15 also criticized was also hadakuni of abu
1:03:17 bakr so everyone that you rely upon
1:03:19 really
1:03:19 has a kunya everyone's calling someone
1:03:22 abu bakr
1:03:23 so here it's not my main thesis i'm not
1:03:26 saying this shows
1:03:27 no this is just a cherry on top of the
1:03:30 cake why would ali call his son
1:03:32 why would other men marry prophet
1:03:34 muhammed go to daughters etc
1:03:42 father
1:03:57 okay so to my point as i said um we said
1:04:00 because abu bakr is a kunya it's not
1:04:01 confirmed with imam ali
1:04:03 islam named himself but as i said again
1:04:05 okay i'm going to go with the sunni
1:04:06 logic i went to salafi then imam hasan
1:04:08 alayhi
1:04:09 he named his son after the killer of his
1:04:11 father so as i said you have to bring a
1:04:13 statement clearly
1:04:14 showing out of blah blah blah that's not
1:04:15 important you said about the ayat and
1:04:17 unfortunately we'll be running out of
1:04:18 time so basically
1:04:21 you mentioned something about arabic
1:04:22 earlier tried to give a little sly one
1:04:23 well of course
1:04:24 you just concentrate your own standards
1:04:26 because uh you recited every verse about
1:04:28 sahabah
1:04:28 wrong in that video and you did say to
1:04:30 one somali ahmadinejad park that have
1:04:32 respect for the quran recited
1:04:33 correct that's not a problem the verse
1:04:35 says
1:04:38 first it says meaning nor does it prove
1:04:40 that a hundred and fourteen thousand
1:04:41 sahabah according to other
1:04:43 muslim that all of them are just rather
1:04:46 you go to for example tafsir al-jalalin
1:04:48 it mentions 114 000
1:04:50 sahabah sorry 101 400 sahabah
1:04:53 it does not prove that all of them are
1:04:55 just and you said oh
1:04:56 thank you admit that actually what i
1:04:57 mean he mentions that in the
1:05:00 mia's book where he says yes some of the
1:05:01 sahaba they did zina you know they drank
1:05:03 so you know i myself how am i meant to
1:05:05 trust some of these people how do i know
1:05:06 you know he wasn't a bit drunk or tipsy
1:05:08 when he was narrating a hadith
1:05:09 um this is well you say about under the
1:05:12 tree well what a taber he came to one of
1:05:14 the sahabis who was under the tree
1:05:16 and he says to him that you do not know
1:05:17 what we have done after his death so
1:05:20 it closed shows clear how uh cleared out
1:05:22 because he says oh you
1:05:23 are the ones under the tree you were
1:05:24 under the tree so you know mashallah
1:05:26 and he says that you do not know what
1:05:27 you have done after you and we also find
1:05:28 in bukhari as well
1:05:30 uh many of these things where the sahaba
1:05:32 it shows that many of them will be taken
1:05:33 away
1:05:34 from the lake on the lakefront hadith
1:05:36 and it shows that many of them
1:05:37 would innovate after the prophet
1:05:39 muhammad
1:05:40 but as i said you were discussing the
1:05:42 shia position i don't i don't care
1:05:44 whether
1:05:44 you take my books as hajj or not i'm
1:05:45 saying that you were saying that this is
1:05:47 a sheer position
1:05:48 i'm saying if you want to get this your
1:05:49 position you have to give it from my
1:05:51 books which you failed to do
1:05:52 so this does not prove
1:05:57 this okay shadeed we find that many of
1:05:59 the sahaba
1:06:00 abu bakr umar uthman from
1:06:04 they were forgiven after that they ran
1:06:06 away after that on uh the next battle as
1:06:08 well they also ran away as well
1:06:10 and this shows that the pledge of ba'af
1:06:12 or under the tree
1:06:14 was the absence of running away which
1:06:16 they did in all of these battles which
1:06:18 shows that the bait
1:06:19 can be broken from another verse
1:06:21 pertaining to this verse which shows
1:06:22 that the beta can be broken so you've
1:06:24 not proven that all of your sahaba
1:06:26 according to your scholars 114 thousands
1:06:28 just you never even prove that from this
1:06:30 verse
1:06:30 because you said it's clear you said
1:06:32 first we don't believe the sahaba muslim
1:06:33 that's the problem with your thesis you
1:06:34 said but the quran makes it clear where
1:06:35 does it make it clear here
1:06:37 that all sahabah are believers and don't
1:06:40 bring more verses you mentioned these
1:06:41 two
1:06:41 you say shadeed against omar according
1:06:44 to authentic hadiths
1:06:50 especially when you're running from
1:06:51 battles and other sahaba witnessed him
1:06:54 running away and climbing up the
1:06:58 mountain
1:07:11 let me do the three minutes then we'll
1:07:13 now
1:07:15 this is he said okay well we haven't uh
1:07:17 we haven't what'd you call it
1:07:18 found anything to show that he did out
1:07:19 of love he he called abu bakr
1:07:22 out of love and he didn't do the same
1:07:23 thing with amar okay
1:07:25 i've just made that point you don't need
1:07:27 to call your sons
1:07:29 both both of your sons two names that
1:07:32 are literally the two names of your
1:07:33 major opponents does that make any sense
1:07:35 in anyone's head in mind
1:07:37 you say no it has to be done out of love
1:07:38 okay i think really there was a message
1:07:40 that ali abner wanted to send to people
1:07:42 like yourself
1:07:44 that you're still not getting number two
1:07:46 you were saying that oh
1:07:47 you know to be honest with you you made
1:07:50 a
1:07:51 like a two-minute conversation had too
1:07:52 many conversation about something which
1:07:54 really is neither here nor there at the
1:07:56 end the last minute is where you really
1:07:57 got to the tick of it well you talked
1:07:59 about oh
1:07:59 you know ran away okay let's assume for
1:08:02 the sake of argument i'll probably run
1:08:03 away okay
1:08:04 sometimes in battle you run away i'm not
1:08:05 saying that is the case we are
1:08:06 completely dis
1:08:08 disregard that i'm not going to tell you
1:08:09 why it's not it's a peripheral point
1:08:11 here let's say you run away does that
1:08:13 make him cather
1:08:14 is that your best shot someone runs away
1:08:16 from something it makes them careful
1:08:18 okay
1:08:18 then you start saying i recite it wrong
1:08:20 okay no problem i recited wrong
1:08:22 i told you here this is called an ad
1:08:24 hominem attack from a logical
1:08:25 perspective where you attack the
1:08:26 interlocutor
1:08:27 rather than the idea i can recite wrong
1:08:29 all the time i recite i was just in the
1:08:30 car a car with my
1:08:32 with some people and i was reciting and
1:08:34 i recited wrong it happens all the time
1:08:36 it even happened according to us
1:08:41 okay now since you're saying that you
1:08:43 can recite right i challenge you
1:08:45 i challenge you to pick up the quran and
1:08:47 recite the first page of
1:08:49 sorts of bacharach i promise you i
1:08:50 believe based on some of the videos i
1:08:52 watched i will pick out at least 10
1:08:53 mistakes and that's my challenge
1:08:55 i'll pick ali's send mistakes because
1:08:56 why because if you really wanted in a
1:08:58 jazza because this is really what he's
1:08:59 asking for
1:09:00 he wants an ejazza he wants an ejazza
1:09:03 for the quran he knows that the sunnis
1:09:05 hold the ejazzes
1:09:06 so if you wanted to you can recite the
1:09:08 first surah of baqarah and recite it to
1:09:10 me with good heaven
1:09:11 and the proper way and insha allah if
1:09:13 you do a good job we can give you a
1:09:14 jazzer for that one
1:09:15 because i know asam is for us and is a
1:09:17 sunni and believe me uh i believe that's
1:09:20 a challenge actually
1:09:21 and then furthermore you talked about um
1:09:24 the
1:09:24 amount of being a coward in these things
1:09:26 but if that's what you believe
1:09:28 so i just want to get this one point
1:09:30 really are you saying that because of
1:09:32 your following ether debate that you
1:09:33 personally since you want to do an ad
1:09:34 hominem let's just do it for the fun of
1:09:35 it
1:09:35 that you personally have internalized
1:09:38 the courageousness of being physically
1:09:39 able to fight because if you do say that
1:09:41 i will make another challenge to you my
1:09:42 friend but just to say first of all
1:09:45 my question to you is very
1:09:46 straightforward are you saying this
1:09:48 or are you not saying this let's
1:09:49 continue
1:09:56 okay
1:09:59 come on okay so we got past that issue
1:10:03 i'm not able to respond to some of the
1:10:04 points on that bench
1:10:06 we can give further dialogue another
1:10:08 time the argument
1:10:09 uh 10 is that you said the third major
1:10:12 difference
1:10:12 is imam and this is one that a lot of
1:10:15 your safety you like to bring up
1:10:17 and you say that the imams are
1:10:18 infallible um of course yeah we believe
1:10:20 in fallible but not in the robotic sense
1:10:22 of that they're forced to do that but
1:10:23 rather they have a special ability of
1:10:25 course
1:10:25 to realize what sins are just like
1:10:27 brother muhammad here
1:10:28 he has the power supply to do zina he
1:10:31 can do that but he will never do that
1:10:32 because he knows that of course
1:10:34 there are things of it so you know the
1:10:35 bad consequences of it
1:10:37 so yeah and you then you say um have all
1:10:39 knowledge and uh control of um
1:10:41 atoms so what i would want to say is um
1:10:44 let's not say
1:10:44 control of you didn't mention any
1:10:46 scholars in there say with control of
1:10:48 atoms but let's say
1:10:49 control in general um let's say allah
1:10:52 gives them
1:10:53 some type of control what's the problem
1:10:54 with that so if you could answer that
1:10:56 question write that down please
1:10:58 and um of course in terms of knowledge
1:11:01 you said all knowledge as well and you
1:11:03 actually brought up some
1:11:04 eye out at the end um i think i should
1:11:06 i'll answer them systematically
1:11:08 inshallah i'll get to that
1:11:09 so what i'll say is that no what do you
1:11:11 based on having all knowledge of
1:11:13 and how do you define that than having
1:11:14 all knowledge if you could let me know
1:11:16 and of course what i'd say yeah i'll
1:11:18 bring it to you actually i'll bring you
1:11:19 i don't need the three minutes
1:11:21 so you can answer sugar
1:11:37 we're getting to the crux of the mata
1:11:39 here
1:11:41 which is one of the major scholars he
1:11:42 says
1:11:48 whoever whoever does this believe in one
1:11:49 of the imams then he's a kefir he's a
1:11:51 disbeliever
1:11:52 and the brother in the audience is
1:11:54 agreeing with that now what i'm saying
1:11:56 here today
1:11:57 guys ladies and gentlemen is that if
1:11:59 that is the case
1:12:00 if my salvation as a human being depends
1:12:03 upon the fact that i have to believe
1:12:05 12 individuals based starting from
1:12:08 ali ibn abi talib up until this what we
1:12:11 call a fictional character of
1:12:12 uh muhammad azkari these 12 individuals
1:12:16 where is the dali give me your strongest
1:12:21 person i'm going to say the same thing
1:12:22 to you as i said before and you were
1:12:24 able to give you
1:12:24 something about running away from the
1:12:25 battlefield about the sahaba give me
1:12:27 your strongest possible value to there
1:12:29 now
1:12:29 hey hey give me your strongest possible
1:12:33 deli for the imam from the quran and
1:12:35 from the sunnah
1:12:36 wait a minute from the quran
1:12:39 and the sunnah that we deem
1:12:41 authoritative i am ready to become a
1:12:43 shiite today
1:12:44 i am ready give me the hadith give me
1:12:47 the
1:12:47 the verse i am ready to become a shiite
1:12:49 today point number one
1:12:51 point number two really this whole
1:12:53 number of 12 anyways
1:12:55 let's be honest
1:12:59 he mentions that there was a group
1:13:01 called
1:13:02 who are these group called they believed
1:13:05 al qaeda
1:13:06 who was one of who was the seventh imam
1:13:08 they believed al-qaeda them
1:13:10 who came after jaffra sadiq that he was
1:13:13 he went into haiba
1:13:14 wait a minute he went into disappearance
1:13:19 meaning he is the mahdi so really they
1:13:21 believed in seven
1:13:22 no doubt shiism has a difference of
1:13:25 opinion
1:13:25 as the amount of imams there are no
1:13:27 doubt about that look at this
1:13:29 they're a contemporary group we don't
1:13:31 need to go to the books of
1:13:32 history and the relics of history let's
1:13:34 look at the contemporary books we find
1:13:36 here
1:13:37 we find it's so clear for everyone to
1:13:40 see
1:13:42 that the difference of opinion on how
1:13:43 many how many imams there are
1:13:46 even so here we talked number one about
1:13:48 give me the deli
1:13:49 number two that's my first objection i'm
1:13:52 ready to become shiite today
1:13:54 i'm ready to become shiite today let's
1:13:56 do it just give me the delete though
1:13:58 from quran and
1:14:01 you can even say the sunnah the
1:14:02 authoritative one i am ready for
1:14:04 anything you throw at me
1:14:05 and remember this time is up
1:14:08 half a minute and remember that you did
1:14:10 have philo
1:14:11 your earliest your earliest shiite
1:14:15 people
1:14:15 they didn't believe in twelve they
1:14:16 believed in seven the qatari believed in
1:14:19 seven
1:14:21 men who wrote a book one of the earliest
1:14:24 shiite books
1:14:24 he believed in 13 that is nihilist
1:14:27 believe in eight
1:14:28 don't tell me about twelve twelve a man
1:14:30 what's twelve come on
1:14:32 come on now moreover it's okay okay so
1:14:35 okay
1:14:43 okay so of course um you didn't answer
1:14:46 me on that regarding
1:14:47 the problem about uh control because you
1:14:49 see a problem with it and i think it's
1:14:50 according to muhammad hijab's subjective
1:14:52 opinion
1:14:53 but what we say is i'm not saying that i
1:14:55 myself okay control of atoms i'm saying
1:14:56 anything better than allah
1:14:58 we say that okay no problem if it's
1:15:01 fine i mean for example in your own
1:15:03 hadiths you say that the dajjal
1:15:05 and i've got the references that he can
1:15:08 kill people and give life to them back
1:15:09 so if i was used to use okay let's say i
1:15:11 wouldn't want to say salafi or
1:15:12 sunni way of thinking i would say that
1:15:14 the jal is allah because
1:15:16 if you go to the anti-shia websites you
1:15:17 will say oh they have a particular
1:15:19 control but
1:15:20 just like isa alaihissalam in the quran
1:15:22 he can create
1:15:32 himself can kill someone and bring him
1:15:34 back to life so with that reason i say
1:15:36 the dajjal is allah we find again your
1:15:38 sahaba
1:15:39 okay for the imams to have control
1:15:42 but the sahaba here um
1:15:46 he can walk across water he can do some
1:15:48 type of david blaine and magic trick and
1:15:49 walk across water others can revive dead
1:15:51 donkeys
1:15:52 so what we say is when it comes to you
1:15:54 saying oh oh they control the atoms i
1:15:55 said what's your point is it um
1:15:57 okay if it's you're saying argue to me
1:15:59 that no this is
1:16:02 i will say that yes we say the same
1:16:03 thing about the imams if we say
1:16:05 they have any particular ability and
1:16:07 regarding your initial thing about imam
1:16:09 you said the front you didn't say bring
1:16:10 hadith you were saying
1:16:11 where is in the quran in any way and you
1:16:13 try to say that okay if it's not in the
1:16:14 quran in any way
1:16:15 yeah like you try to use it in a bad
1:16:17 sense but your own scholars say for
1:16:18 example
1:16:23 he says clearly that uh
1:16:28 that if it is
1:16:31 confirmed from the prophet it has the
1:16:33 same status as an eye of the quran
1:16:36 here the hadith is proof in lords in
1:16:37 itself he clearly shows that
1:16:40 it should be taken in akida and if i ask
1:16:42 you this
1:16:45 that they're all literal word you prove
1:16:46 that from the quran ask you about the
1:16:47 bad attack the two angels
1:16:49 interrogating you can't prove that from
1:16:50 the quran at all so i was saying that i
1:16:52 do of course believe imama to be from
1:16:54 the quran
1:16:55 but if i were to not even prove from the
1:16:57 quran and just muttawata narrations or
1:16:58 even
1:16:59 from there would be no problem at all
1:17:02 because your own scholars
1:17:03 accept that and that's your standards
1:17:04 but um of course i'll go to the next
1:17:06 how long have i got half a minute so
1:17:09 then you said okay you have the next um
1:17:11 you mentioned the things about the imams
1:17:12 and
1:17:13 you say if we look at the beginning of
1:17:14 the end of it we don't find any of the
1:17:15 12
1:17:16 names of the imams in the quran
1:17:18 mentioned in any explicit name i say it
1:17:19 doesn't matter we don't need to have
1:17:21 names and just have the quran which will
1:17:23 seem to be your initial argument that
1:17:24 you use
1:17:25 and many of your own scholars as well
1:17:27 say the person can't be a mormon
1:17:28 if he like um if he does not believe in
1:17:31 quran with the sunnah so both of them
1:17:33 can be proved in that way
1:17:34 but what i'll do is that i'll address
1:17:36 your arguments because you didn't bring
1:17:37 any specific eye out in the video to say
1:17:39 okay let's discuss these
1:17:40 i'll address your arguments
1:17:50 let me start by addressing what you said
1:17:53 and this is something i am doing with
1:17:54 you that you have not necessarily done
1:17:56 with me
1:17:57 i've asked you a variety of questions in
1:17:59 this evening's discussion we've talked
1:18:01 about
1:18:02 give me why you don't believe for
1:18:03 example
1:18:05 you didn't answer then we talked about
1:18:08 give me something from the quran that
1:18:09 talks about imam or from the hadith
1:18:10 no answer but so you don't want to
1:18:13 answer me that shows to be honest with
1:18:14 you that there is no answer
1:18:16 that's point number one point number two
1:18:17 really he's talking about some kind of
1:18:19 control okay
1:18:20 this is what they call related technique
1:18:22 yeah where you have the ability to
1:18:23 control things now listen
1:18:24 listen to me this is not what i said i
1:18:27 didn't say anything about control
1:18:29 to some control i said all ability to
1:18:32 control
1:18:33 wait a minute
1:18:37 i don't see a difference
1:18:41 i really don't see a difference between
1:18:43 this and i want you this is a challenge
1:18:44 it's a question
1:18:46 my question to you is tell me the main
1:18:47 difference between this
1:18:52 and subordination is christianity you
1:18:54 basically believe and it's mentioned in
1:18:55 kafi
1:18:58 uh i'll give you exactly what the name
1:18:59 of the bible is in arabic but the door
1:19:00 the chapter of
1:19:02 when the imam wants to know something
1:19:03 he'll know something this is kolini's
1:19:05 opinion
1:19:05 whenever someone wanted to know
1:19:06 something he'll know something
1:19:09 do you understand that means to say that
1:19:12 and you're talking about knowledge
1:19:13 control and knowledge
1:19:14 that means to say that it's in the
1:19:17 capacity of the imam
1:19:21 to have the same knowledge as allah i'm
1:19:23 sorry that's just because
1:19:25 it doesn't solve the problem this is why
1:19:27 i say what is the difference between
1:19:28 your position
1:19:29 and the subordinationist aryan christian
1:19:32 who believes that there is a hierarchy
1:19:33 where you have the father on top and the
1:19:36 holy spirit and the son on the bottom
1:19:38 and that everything happens with the
1:19:39 will of the father yet
1:19:42 they're equal in terms of their
1:19:43 abilities
1:19:45 if you're saying that the imam has the
1:19:46 ability to have all knowledge
1:19:49 and if you're saying that allah has the
1:19:51 ability to have knowledge i'm sorry but
1:19:53 this
1:19:53 is means there is equality in that we
1:19:55 have not i've given you the references
1:19:57 in kulin's book it's actually a
1:19:59 chapter heading now moreover
1:20:03 you'll be surprised i believe
1:20:04 subhanallah that the imam thing is
1:20:06 actually a matter of
1:20:08 there has been a historical development
1:20:09 and i'll give you an evidence of that
1:20:11 and evidence of that is a hadith which
1:20:13 is narrated
1:20:15 by ali
1:20:35 so he said you have to say you know you
1:20:38 have to say
1:20:39 uh you know i thank allah and the angels
1:20:41 and the
1:20:42 winner and the nebula
1:20:45 the same way actually comes ab11
1:20:53 and musa been jaffa and then he said the
1:20:56 same ruaya
1:20:57 not mentioning the names of the imams
1:21:00 this shows anachronism
1:21:06 okay can i finish my friends
1:21:12 we've only got two goals each anyways
1:21:13 yeah yes um how many more minutes have
1:21:15 we got because i haven't got to mention
1:21:16 my points
1:21:20 i'm i'm very disappointed this happened
1:21:22 i wanted to have a uniform discussion
1:21:42 there's a whole chapter which clearly
1:21:44 shows that there is hidden knowledge
1:21:46 which the imam can never have
1:21:47 so we see that this knowledge if allah
1:21:50 gives it there's no problem as i said
1:21:51 you are the
1:21:51 child has powers of of course giving
1:21:54 life to people once he killed them
1:21:56 and we said that no i'm talking about
1:21:58 particular control your sahaba can walk
1:22:00 across the water
1:22:01 revive their donkeys and even in this
1:22:02 book as well uh in the
1:22:04 uh of even tamiya's book by other mean
1:22:06 it says that the miracles for musa
1:22:09 uh some of the miracles when this uh see
1:22:11 departed story
1:22:13 greater miracles happened on this one
1:22:14 some of the greater miracles happened on
1:22:16 the sahaba where they had particular
1:22:17 control
1:22:18 of creation you said the kitab salam
1:22:19 thing in your point before
1:22:21 that's a slip of the pen thirteen imams
1:22:22 in fact in the same book you'll find
1:22:24 where it mentions 12 imams so what our
1:22:25 scholars say is that yes it could have
1:22:27 been a slip of the pen about that but it
1:22:28 doesn't mention
1:22:29 and ahmad al-hasan cultists they try to
1:22:31 use this to say that there's another
1:22:32 imam
1:22:33 after that and you said no we said that
1:22:35 yeah allah
1:22:38 if it's not something for example we say
1:22:39 that it would put them in lordship with
1:22:41 him
1:22:42 then there's no problem in doing that if
1:22:44 they can get knowledge from
1:22:45 allah which is knowledge inherited from
1:22:48 the previous prophets
1:22:49 um peace be upon them all then there's
1:22:51 no problem at all and that's not putting
1:22:53 any partners
1:22:54 and you also try to negate the concept
1:22:55 of imam in your video by mentioning
1:22:57 kitab
1:22:58 by pulsing you said that in kitab imam
1:23:00 hasan alaska he didn't have any sons
1:23:02 anyway this is what used to negate imam
1:23:04 first you should have read the title of
1:23:05 the book which is
1:23:07 which means that sheikh tulsi is what
1:23:09 he's a sheikh of what sect
1:23:10 of course the twelvers the book is
1:23:12 dedicated to the whole imam and he's
1:23:14 also got a chapter where he says
1:23:15 refutation of those who say that imam
1:23:17 hasan al-asgari alaihi
1:23:19 does not have a son so i believe from
1:23:21 this book you read one of the quotes
1:23:22 from the arabic forums i searched it and
1:23:24 i was reading it
1:23:25 reading it where it says that the imam
1:23:26 did not have there was no signs of
1:23:28 pregnancy towards the end of his death
1:23:29 that's fine because we say that that
1:23:31 birth was hidden just like the birth of
1:23:33 prophet ibrahim alaihissalam
1:23:35 and of um prophet muhammad
1:23:38 and then we have kitab foreign there's
1:23:41 actually a whole chapter in here
1:23:43 which says that actually the first sect
1:23:46 was
1:23:47 salman they were the first sect of the
1:23:48 shia so the one that you mentioned about
1:23:50 abdullah bin sabha and you said that you
1:23:51 know this is one of the theories
1:23:52 that was talking about some people who
1:23:54 heard stories about that in our books
1:23:56 abdullah bin sabha
1:23:57 is completely condemned so what you did
1:23:58 for these two books is that you tried to
1:24:00 negate
1:24:01 our concept of imam by saying first imam
1:24:03 hasan alaska islam he doesn't have a son
1:24:05 the whole book is dedicated to him and
1:24:07 then imam you said
1:24:08 that it was started by a jew we said is
1:24:11 it finished
1:24:28 yeah go ahead
1:24:32 let's finish off by saying because
1:24:33 unfortunately some disturbances have
1:24:35 happened around us
1:24:36 but a lot of people have come around now
1:24:38 let me tell you something let me tell
1:24:39 you something right here and right now
1:24:41 we've just compared and i know a lot of
1:24:42 shiites are watching are going to find
1:24:44 it offensive that i've compared shiites
1:24:45 him with christianity i've done it and i
1:24:47 asked him the
1:24:47 question what's the difference between
1:24:49 shiaism and subordination is
1:24:51 christianity
1:24:52 and he hasn't really answered that what
1:24:54 is the main conceptual theological
1:24:56 differences there's no
1:24:56 really there is not many many the same
1:24:59 thing can be said about a christian he
1:25:00 can make the same excuses that
1:25:01 oh you know there are some things that
1:25:02 divine jesus doesn't know anyways
1:25:05 we won't go into that i want to ask you
1:25:06 another question obviously don't believe
1:25:07 ahmed is a muslim
1:25:10 no you're okay why they're not muslim
1:25:12 because they believe in another prophet
1:25:13 that's coming after the prophet muhammad
1:25:15 however you'll find as is a here we have
1:25:19 a hadith which is narrated and ahmed
1:25:21 muhammad bin abi nasir
1:25:23 and um
1:25:27 he said okay this is a hadith he asked
1:25:31 one of the one of the what is the [ __ ]
1:25:34 what is the difference between the imam
1:25:36 and the prophet listen to this do you
1:25:39 know what he said
1:25:40 he said in a nutshell the difference is
1:25:43 that the imam can see
1:25:45 that the prophet can see the angel and
1:25:47 the imam can't see the angel
1:25:48 and we know and shia thought that the
1:25:50 imam is actually higher than the prophet
1:25:51 if anything
1:25:53 so what's really the difference and how
1:25:54 dare you i mean what right do you have
1:25:57 to make take fear of someone who's
1:25:58 saying there's a new prophet and you're
1:26:00 saying there are
1:26:00 there are basically people that are
1:26:02 higher than prophets that came up to the
1:26:03 prophet muhammad why
1:26:04 does this make any sense to you does
1:26:07 this make any sense to you whatsoever
1:26:09 i'm sorry it doesn't make any sense to
1:26:11 me and the rest of the listeners i
1:26:12 believe you
1:26:13 believe me the shia is here well i
1:26:14 apologize to the shias
1:26:16 if i've come across as a passion
1:26:17 obviously the reason why i've become
1:26:19 very passionate this time is because of
1:26:20 the things that have been said by this
1:26:21 group
1:26:22 about very taking up the entrails of
1:26:24 subhanallah
1:26:25 abu bakr and you know let's let's empty
1:26:27 the graves very extreme things let's
1:26:29 celebrate the death of aisha
1:26:30 let's do all these things but today
1:26:32 alhamdulillah
1:26:34 was the truth has come and the falsehood
1:26:37 has perished
1:26:40 there's two things i want to announce if
1:26:42 true shia has any kind of
1:26:43 question please visit 12ashiya.net who's
1:26:46 our
1:26:46 our partners alhamdulillah they've done
1:26:48 a great job in helping us they are the
1:26:50 best english resource
1:26:51 they are the best english resource about
1:26:53 refutations of shia
1:26:54 visit them and also of course watch the
1:26:57 rest of our videos
1:26:58 no doubt and also of course just ponder
1:27:00 of it
1:27:02 if a shia comes to me and asks me any
1:27:03 question on instagram i'll answer
1:27:06 can we recommend the website as well