Jake in the UK | Let's get to 10k! (2022-01-11) #

0:00:41 assalamu alaikum
0:00:51 welcome to a random thought adventure
0:00:53 podcast
0:00:54 no one is aware that we're doing this
0:00:58 so we may
0:01:00 send an invite to them actually see if
0:01:02 they're free and they can jump up
0:01:04 and uh yeah so we just thought we'd do a
0:01:05 little random live stream we're
0:01:08 100 let me get all of this yeah
0:01:12 jump on my
0:01:14 use my
0:01:18 phone wi-fi
0:01:19 so yeah so brother jake is that let me
0:01:21 go i need to get rid of this sorry
0:01:24 yes brother jake's come to the uk
0:01:26 alhamdulillah he got here last night
0:01:29 it's silly o'clock and uh we sat around
0:01:33 eating chicken
0:01:35 and drinking milkshakes until stupid
0:01:38 o'clock
0:01:39 uh yeah so insha'allah we're getting to
0:01:43 one year
0:01:44 with the thought adventure podcast on
0:01:46 the 15th i think it is is it yeah
0:01:49 um but we've got a busy day on the 15th
0:01:51 so we're going to do something on the
0:01:52 first insha'allah allah we're gonna on
0:01:54 the first on the 16th
0:01:55 which is the next day
0:01:58 and uh the plan is inshallah we're going
0:02:00 to head down to speaker's corner which
0:02:02 should be frozen coming up bro
0:02:04 let me try and turn it on
0:02:06 i could just bloody send it to them
0:02:09 yeah but see if you can do it anyway
0:02:11 because i want to tweet it out tweet out
0:02:12 the link oh yeah
0:02:13Music 0:02:16 there we go
0:02:17 try again
0:02:21 okay let's see
0:02:24 see the plan is we're going to go to
0:02:26 speaker's corner
0:02:28 on the 16th
0:02:30 um we're going to try and get brother
0:02:32 sharif to come up we were trying to get
0:02:34 abdullah
0:02:35 well
0:02:37 yeah but he's
0:02:38 sold us out yeah yeah that's connected
0:02:41 thanks bro
0:02:42 so it might just be
0:02:43 me jake um sharif and then some other
0:02:47 duets
0:02:49 in inshallah um
0:02:50Music 0:02:52 yeah and so what we want to do hopefully
0:02:54 as well is we want to try and get to 10k
0:02:57 uh before then because what are we on at
0:02:59 the moment
0:03:01 i think we're on
0:03:02 99.77 7777 i hope that it's going up a
0:03:05 little bit yeah what are you guys doing
0:03:06 get us the 10k come on share the videos
0:03:09 let's do it insha allah so we just
0:03:12 thought we'd do a little random live
0:03:13 stream now
0:03:14 and see if we can get to 10k
0:03:16 um so there's going to be some recording
0:03:18 here so i'm not going to be able to do
0:03:19 it for too long
0:03:20 um if we don't listen guys if we don't
0:03:22 get to 10k
0:03:25 next week we're not doing a live stream
0:03:30 we have to strong-arm these guys what
0:03:32 are you guys doing
0:03:34 uh yeah let me share it to uh
0:03:38 on twitter
0:03:41 you know that's all group jump
0:03:50 should just threaten them jump on now or
0:03:52 forever
0:03:55 shrieve might be at work
0:04:01 so let's have a look at the chat and see
0:04:02 what people are saying
0:04:05 should we invite people on
0:04:07 as well yeah
0:04:11 so what we'll do
0:04:12 is we'll put the link there
0:04:17 and you guys can jump on as well if you
0:04:19 like insha'allah
0:04:21 let's go through the comments is jake
0:04:23 come in
0:04:25 yeah
0:04:26 i'm here guys if you haven't noticed
0:04:28 he's here good vibes
0:04:35 along to everyone who's given their
0:04:36 salams
0:04:55 no
0:04:57 no you know what it was i think it was
0:04:58 because
0:04:59 oh because well in the beginning yeah so
0:05:01 when i was doing that yeah maybe they
0:05:03 thought it was like two different
0:05:05 cameras yeah
0:05:07 or
0:05:08 uh something were on the same side of
0:05:10 the table
0:05:12 uh well i just got your notification
0:05:14 even though i haven't turned on the belt
0:05:16 icon brad brap go youtube
0:05:19 throw in our
0:05:21 wait say why is the notifications not
0:05:23 turned on i know what are you doing i
0:05:24 know it is okay are you dressing
0:05:26 yourself up can we turn the
0:05:27 notifications on hit the bell and press
0:05:30 all and whenever thought adventure does
0:05:32 a live stream in shortland you'll get a
0:05:34 notification vandalists always coming
0:05:36 through with the who's winning have you
0:05:38 noticed that
0:05:39 everything i
0:05:40 know every time comes on and writes
0:05:43 who's winning me that's not a debate
0:05:45 well it's his thing now he's gotta sort
0:05:47 of maintain it if he ever stops exactly
0:05:49 then it'll just be weird
0:05:52 so yeah you've got to keep that up
0:05:54 from now on inshaallah um
0:05:57 glad to see jake is in the uk
0:06:01 when is your next stream yes sir um
0:06:04 when you guys get us to 10k that's it
0:06:06 yeah it gets the 10k yeah that's the 10k
0:06:08 share to stream share the uh channel
0:06:11 if you don't there won't be a next
0:06:13 stream guys yeah i'm sorry to tell you
0:06:15 but um
0:06:16 there was going to be one
0:06:18 last sunday but like i've not been able
0:06:20 to jump on just because i've been a bit
0:06:22 hectic with my moving yeah um
0:06:25 abdul rahman was ill
0:06:28 you weren't sharif and sharif wasn't
0:06:29 feeling well and you i was just busy he
0:06:32 was busy to getting ready for for here
0:06:34 coming to london yeah so yeah
0:06:36 everything's been a bit hectic which is
0:06:38 why we we've not done one yet
0:06:41 um and we've got a long list of things
0:06:44 we that we intend to do there was a
0:06:46 brother i was talking to he was asking
0:06:47 us to do one
0:06:48 on um
0:06:50 abstract objects and allah's society
0:06:54 and the relation between allah and
0:06:55 abstract object that might be an
0:06:57 interesting one
0:06:58 yeah um
0:07:00 i think dr saf actually wrote a paper on
0:07:02 that so it might be good to bring him on
0:07:04 for that yeah yeah
0:07:05 yeah
0:07:07 and uh oh
0:07:09 maybe we should make an announcement we
0:07:10 already did on twitter but um
0:07:13 we're having josh rasmussen come on oh
0:07:16 no bro
0:07:18 we've just done a teaser no we've not
0:07:20 said it explicitly who's coming on i
0:07:22 know he is but we were just teasing
0:07:24 people who did the um
0:07:27 let me see how we posted it because i
0:07:28 told him to just go
0:07:30 that's rasmussen
0:07:32 no context
0:07:34 no no contacts rasmussen did he not post
0:07:36 it like that because i'm going to go
0:07:37 absolutely mentally if he didn't
0:07:39 oh
0:07:39 anyway i just maybe reminded them
0:07:47 he posted
0:07:51 so i haven't posted it
0:07:53 no he definitely posted it bro
0:07:56 yeah okay i didn't even do what i told
0:07:59 him to do
0:08:00 he posted it like this that works yeah
0:08:03 yeah but then there's nothing there's no
0:08:05 yeah but come on yeah people know but he
0:08:08 was supposed to say
0:08:09 no context rasmussen
0:08:12 and then just post that and then let
0:08:14 people guess
0:08:16 all right well too bad well yes
0:08:19 so we've got some plenty with rasmussen
0:08:21 in sha'a as well um when is that for
0:08:25 uh
0:08:26 at the end of a few months i think
0:08:28 because he's busy next month i believe
0:08:30 it's in february is it that early i
0:08:32 believe so let me check
0:08:35 because i think i remember it being like
0:08:36 we had to book months and months in
0:08:38 advance
0:08:39 nah bro i think it's actually in
0:08:43 see
0:08:44 yeah february 24th
0:08:47 okay
0:08:48 it's not too far away yeah and a half
0:08:50 yeah pretty close so that's um that's on
0:08:52 the table which should be a really good
0:08:54 conversation what's the topic with him
0:08:57 um
0:09:00 um
0:09:03 i think it's gonna be a wide variety of
0:09:05 stuff yeah there's a lot we could talk
0:09:06 to him yeah so it should be good
0:09:08 inshaallah yeah um
0:09:10 yeah i mean we've got like just a huge
0:09:12 list of things of topics we want to
0:09:13 cover at some point so there's yeah
0:09:16 in short i'll keep your eyes out for the
0:09:18 um
0:09:20 you usually get that little thumbnail
0:09:22 book when we booked it
0:09:24 um
0:09:26 so you'll you'll notice it when we know
0:09:28 we we upload it
0:09:30 uh so early and unexpected yeah
0:09:33 we've um we got up early we went because
0:09:35 we've got breakfast at the hotel
0:09:38 so we went and had the breakfast and now
0:09:41 we're just sort of waiting in here
0:09:42 because we're gonna do some recording
0:09:43 today
0:09:45 um
0:09:47 for sapience
0:09:49 uh
0:09:50 we're just sort of waiting on the
0:09:51 brothers to arrive so we've got a bit of
0:09:53 time to kill so we thought why not let's
0:09:55 try to get to 10k
0:09:57 so if you've not subscribed already
0:09:58 please subscribe if you've not shared
0:10:00 please share
0:10:02 and uh
0:10:03 make sure to turn on your notifications
0:10:05 and hit the bell and turn them all on
0:10:08 team crumpets we didn't we had zero
0:10:10 percent t and zero percent crumpets oh
0:10:13 yeah uh
0:10:16 glory metaphysician united
0:10:21 where's your muslim metaphysician hat
0:10:23 it's in my suitcase actually
0:10:26 i haven't even emptied my suitcase
0:10:28 uh
0:10:30 coming to jakarta indonesia yeah oh that
0:10:32 would be nice
0:10:33 yeah in shock
0:10:35 because i was just talking about um
0:10:37 doing like a muslim travelers
0:10:39 show
0:10:40 where like we go backpacking or
0:10:42 something and show people how to travel
0:10:46 and do backpacking you know like on a
0:10:48 shoestring or um
0:10:49 on a budget i thought that make a really
0:10:51 cool series
0:10:52 and uh and we i was telling him about
0:10:54 this other idea i had where i don't know
0:10:55 if any of you have seen it there's a tv
0:10:57 show called the island with bear grylls
0:10:59 where he just throws a bunch of people
0:11:00 on an island and they've got to try to
0:11:02 survive
0:11:04 and i was talking how good of an idea it
0:11:06 would be to just get like
0:11:08 a collection of uh of the dua or the you
0:11:10 know the dollar guys
0:11:12 and to just throw them on some island
0:11:14 somewhere and they've got to try to live
0:11:15 there for like a month
0:11:17 and like they've got to fend for
0:11:19 themselves and hunt their own food and
0:11:22 build shelter and find water and just
0:11:24 sort of survive on a desert island
0:11:26 somewhere i thought that'd be really
0:11:28 cool maybe jakarta
0:11:30 might have a couple of desert islands we
0:11:32 can
0:11:33 we can jump on in
0:11:37 uh
0:11:38 none of your beeswax no joking um
0:11:41 he's sweden in sweden yeah
0:11:43 uh
0:11:45 jake would you try
0:11:47 taking on those uh oh yeah those jokers
0:11:51 no
0:11:52 sit down
0:11:54 come to australia bro where's your hat
0:11:56 guys i'm still wearing a hat and it's
0:11:58 red it's like
0:12:00 it's like
0:12:01 it's as if i got a ponytail or something
0:12:03 with no hat on all of a sudden
0:12:06 they don't know how to act uh i did put
0:12:08 the link out for people to jump on the
0:12:10 stream did you i think i did
0:12:13 maybe you should pin it
0:12:14 i i can't i need to be on the youtube
0:12:17 channel to be able to pin
0:12:19 oh not on the street i can do it yeah
0:12:22 what do you call it
0:12:25 speaker's corner will be interesting it
0:12:27 will be insha allah i've got my goal
0:12:29 next week guys
0:12:31 yeah 16 taps coming through
0:12:34 inshallah
0:12:36 that usually as well if um if you go on
0:12:38 youtube and you search
0:12:40 speaker's corner and you pull up the
0:12:42 live so if you go on the filter you can
0:12:44 just
0:12:45 um have live
0:12:47 there's usually like two or three people
0:12:49 walk around speakers corner with live
0:12:50 cameras if you jump on that as well on
0:12:52 the 16th you might just get
0:12:54 like a quick peek i was there busting
0:12:56 about
0:12:59 um
0:13:00 welcome jake
0:13:02 uh there's another person asking about
0:13:04 your hat
0:13:06 jake how are you doing
0:13:08 good how are you doing how was your
0:13:09 flight it's good man
0:13:12 good hunger now any trouble at uh
0:13:16 no
0:13:17 no no it was good nice and smooth
0:13:19 alhamdulillah
0:13:20 share and subscribe
0:13:23 that's exactly what you want to do i am
0:13:25 already subscribed
0:13:27 and sharing it masha'allah
0:13:29 knowing them
0:13:31 knowing them fam knowing i'm last name
0:13:35 somebody said jake without the hat is
0:13:37 like batman without the cape
0:13:42 which abdul rahman would you mean which
0:13:44 how many abdulrahmans are on adventure
0:13:47 there's one of those only one
0:13:50 all right guys
0:13:51 yeah it's not letting me pin the link
0:13:53 either but how many debates did jake
0:13:55 have seen surviving in the uk
0:13:58 zero
0:14:00 you gave me a bit of grief about being
0:14:01 from manchester yesterday yeah yeah we
0:14:03 nearly got into an argument
0:14:07 i'm not not any uh no
0:14:10 i think the brothers of yes thou will
0:14:12 come with you guys to speak yeah
0:14:13 inshallah inshallah we did actually hop
0:14:16 on the uh ef dollar stream yeah that was
0:14:18 really awkward last night very briefly
0:14:20 we were just like
0:14:24 and then we got off because the chicken
0:14:26 was arrived salaam alaikum
0:14:38 what are we talking about i have no idea
0:14:40 is there a topic
0:14:41 uh we're trying to get to 10k yeah we're
0:14:43 just bored yeah wait absolutely yeah
0:14:45 get to 10k great to see you um
0:14:48 you flew out where did you fly out of
0:14:51 newark
0:14:52 newark okay how was the weather there
0:14:54 when you flew out because i i saw you
0:14:56 posted a very snowy
0:14:58 white picture when you were leaving
0:15:01 yeah yeah that was like the day before
0:15:03 so we just had six inches of snow
0:15:06 on a couple days ago yeah
0:15:09 yeah we've just pretty cold we've got
0:15:11 six inches of rain over in this part of
0:15:13 the world
0:15:14 yeah we had the sedat on a call last
0:15:16 night and he's in canada and he's he is
0:15:19 minus 18 out there oh subhanallah yeah
0:15:21 that's
0:15:22 like alaska weather man honestly i mean
0:15:24 18th centigrade yeah
0:15:27 i mean this is like seriously cold
0:15:29 yeah yeah i don't think i i'm i've been
0:15:31 complaining about how cold it is here
0:15:33 it's saturday
0:15:36 this is a cold man this is some compared
0:15:38 to what they're having yeah this is this
0:15:40 is nothing man
0:15:42 so i'm surprised uh jake you you don't
0:15:44 have jet lag yet or if you just did you
0:15:46 just stay up all night
0:15:49 uh now we i mean we stayed up pretty
0:15:51 late but then went to sleep uh yeah we
0:15:54 got up had breakfast and
0:15:56 we went back to the room at about two
0:15:58 a.m
0:15:59 yeah and uh
0:16:00 and then we were like
0:16:03 what's the time difference between where
0:16:05 you are and where you are now
0:16:07 five hours five okay so i guess you just
0:16:10 got your meal times just uh five hours
0:16:12 difference that's all
0:16:14 yeah you know yeah
0:16:18 so what's on your mind what's on the
0:16:20 agenda for today what are you planning
0:16:22 so
0:16:24 uh
0:16:25 i think adnan is going to be doing some
0:16:26 recording
0:16:28 says the sapience because we've got a
0:16:30 learning platform coming out
0:16:32 so we're just going to sort of like
0:16:33 shadow hamza and watch how he does it
0:16:36 because it's just going to be me jake
0:16:38 and then the cameraman
0:16:39 moving forward for the next couple of
0:16:41 weeks and so we've got to record his
0:16:42 courses for
0:16:44 uh problems with the trinity
0:16:46 and um
0:16:47 and then we're going to do mine as well
0:16:49 so
0:16:50 we're just going to be sort of seeing
0:16:52 how they do it
0:16:53 and then just sort of mimicking that and
0:16:56 getting everything prepared for the
0:16:57 learning platform for savings and
0:16:58 students
0:17:00 so wow fantastic well i wish you all the
0:17:02 best and i think i'm looking forward to
0:17:04 the courses of course
0:17:06 yeah
0:17:07 it's an amazing initiative and this
0:17:09 collaboration is i think really where
0:17:11 the dawah needs to go i mean in terms of
0:17:14 but also east west i think one of the
0:17:15 things we're doing with the darwise team
0:17:17 is actually we're trying to build some
0:17:18 relationships out to the far east as
0:17:20 well
0:17:21 which which largely is being ignored by
0:17:23 us
0:17:24 mostly because of lack of english but
0:17:27 these courses i think could reach out to
0:17:30 those regions as well yeah the plan is
0:17:32 is hopefully to get them sort of
0:17:34 translated into all the languages um
0:17:36 yeah which would be absolutely awesome
0:17:39 um
0:17:40 yeah so we're just trying to expand on
0:17:42 that but slowly slowly
0:17:44 get there eventually bit by bit
0:17:46 inshallah we'll go get there
0:17:48Music 0:17:50 so any and have you got so after the
0:17:51 tweaks have you got any planned
0:17:53 discussions or anything jake any any
0:17:55 sort of
0:17:57 interesting guests that we may
0:17:59 should look forward to
0:18:01 not right now although we did just
0:18:03 announce although i didn't know i missed
0:18:05 it okay
0:18:07 i wasn't supposed to we're gonna have uh
0:18:10 josh rasmussen
0:18:11 uh coming on tap he's a christian
0:18:15 philosopher
0:18:16 um but he mainly specializes in
0:18:19 contingency arguments and um
0:18:22 you know sort of philosophy of religion
0:18:24 discussing with atheists
0:18:26 so um he's a pretty big name and yeah
0:18:29 we're looking forward to having him on
0:18:31 next month inshallah
0:18:33 yeah hopefully it's going to be another
0:18:34 like um
0:18:36 conversation with uh malpass it's nice
0:18:39 yeah chill conversation yeah the malpass
0:18:41 discussion was actually quite
0:18:43 surprisingly
0:18:45 civil
0:18:46 yeah yeah actually i think it's
0:18:47 surprising mountpass is a cool guy um
0:18:50 he's not really one of the drama
0:18:52 people is he no so i was expecting it to
0:18:54 be a nice conversation
0:18:58 so hopefully this is going to be another
0:19:00 one like that but well not hopefully i
0:19:02 think it's pretty
0:19:03 much so yeah i mean so i think these
0:19:06 kinds of conversations where we keep the
0:19:08 temperament low we have sort of academic
0:19:12 nuanced discussions
0:19:14 uh for me i think are really taking the
0:19:16 tower to a new level
0:19:18 and to a new new audience as well
0:19:21 so
0:19:22 the work is appreciated immensely
0:19:24 and it also i think really sort of
0:19:27 i mean for me highlights
0:19:29 just how
0:19:31 low level
0:19:33 the playground polymix are from some of
0:19:35 the haters
0:19:36 right because you know to take the
0:19:38 effort that you do to understand the
0:19:40 other side i mean really understand it
0:19:42 i mean demonstrates a level of respect
0:19:44 that i think should be reciprocated
0:19:47 and by
0:19:48 you know by the playground politicians
0:19:51 or polemics it's not
0:19:53 and it's just i mean to me that's
0:19:54 insulting really at the end of the day i
0:19:56 mean that's an insult to
0:19:58 to the honesty of the discussion and the
0:20:00 integrity of the discussion
0:20:02 um and i think if this model works then
0:20:05 we could you know we would expand on it
0:20:08 expand on it absolutely yeah
0:20:10 what's the hope that's the whole point
0:20:11 with the thought adventure podcast as
0:20:12 well we wanted to have like a particular
0:20:14 kind of
0:20:16 way of doing these discussions
0:20:18 and um we tried a couple
0:20:21 maybe with the wrong characters um and
0:20:24 the conversations went well i think but
0:20:25 it was um
0:20:27 yeah i i i'm much more preferring these
0:20:29 conversations with likes like milepass
0:20:30 and i think the russian museum is gonna
0:20:32 be a good one as well and then shall i
0:20:34 just try to
0:20:36 keep getting guests on like that yeah
0:20:37 yeah and expand on so
0:20:40 so
0:20:40 i think what so one of the things we're
0:20:42 trying to do is really take the
0:20:44 decisions you're having
0:20:46 and sort of reinterpret them for the
0:20:48 next level down
0:20:49 yeah and that's really the goal so to
0:20:51 make sure we have almost like this sort
0:20:53 of waterfall effect
0:20:54 of where you really have the real high
0:20:56 level academic discussions then we sort
0:20:58 of reinterpret them for the next level
0:21:00 down break apart some of the
0:21:01 vocabularies and the language from the
0:21:03 theory and then represent it and we're
0:21:05 finding a lot of our audience with
0:21:07 otherwise in particular is appreciating
0:21:10 that sort of double click
0:21:12 yeah because some of the concepts you
0:21:14 guys go into and really unless you've
0:21:15 studied philosophy unless you've really
0:21:18 embedded yourself in this stuff for
0:21:20 years
0:21:21 it really sort of it goes over the heads
0:21:23 of many people you know i mean they're
0:21:25 small phrases but they're packed with so
0:21:28 much meaning
0:21:31 because that is something um
0:21:34 we're concerned about we do talk about
0:21:35 it quite a lot um because
0:21:38 the the difficulty is is when you're
0:21:39 trying to have a particular conversation
0:21:42 like you say a word or a particular
0:21:44 concept has a whole discussion behind it
0:21:47 exactly and if you want to try to
0:21:50 progress a particular conversation
0:21:52 you have to use that word to save you
0:21:55 having to go into a whole other
0:21:56 conversation yes like say like
0:21:59 epistemology is like a random one just
0:22:01 throw out there so epistemology is
0:22:02 obviously the study of
0:22:03 knowledge and stuff and using that word
0:22:06 and you just sort of throw it out there
0:22:08 um there's a lot you can say on that you
0:22:12 know there's a whole conversation just
0:22:13 about what epistemology is and the
0:22:15 different kind of things you're going
0:22:16 into
0:22:17 um but if you're trying to make a point
0:22:19 that's not necessarily related to that
0:22:21 whole
0:22:22 subject area it's just mentioning it
0:22:25 but it's still important in the point
0:22:27 you're making then you just have to use
0:22:28 the word epistemology because it's like
0:22:30 a shortcut yeah exactly i mean basically
0:22:32 when you study philosophy and when you
0:22:35 read
0:22:36 um the material on these subjects that
0:22:38 we're talking about that's essentially
0:22:40 what it is it's
0:22:42 it gives you a shorthand way
0:22:44 of expressing yourself so you use
0:22:46 terminology and there's like you said
0:22:48 you said there's a whole story behind
0:22:50 that and if you don't know the story
0:22:53 a lot of the the message is sort of lost
0:22:56 so it's very difficult to use
0:22:58 that shorthand terminology and at the
0:23:00 same time
0:23:02 explain everything that is you know
0:23:04 sort of behind that word and concept
0:23:07 especially for people who for the most
0:23:09 part let's be honest
0:23:11 not really reading anymore we're not
0:23:12 really reading that many books and you
0:23:15 know academic articles people are mostly
0:23:17 consuming most of their
0:23:19 knowledge and
0:23:21 learning from social media from youtube
0:23:24 from facebook from instagram from
0:23:27 uh
0:23:28 tick tock all the you know this is where
0:23:30 people
0:23:31 get their information even news and all
0:23:34 this different stuff so um
0:23:37 yeah it's really important to use it
0:23:39 properly
0:23:40 to try to educate and empower other
0:23:43 people
0:23:44 especially for the muslim audience
0:23:46 because that's
0:23:47 anyway really what my goal is yes and um
0:23:51 we're doing the best we can but yeah you
0:23:53 learn as you go along to try to refine
0:23:57 your way of presenting certain topics
0:23:59 you get feedback and say oh wait this
0:24:02 particular word really threw them off
0:24:04 they didn't really understand
0:24:06 you see so um
0:24:08 it's sort of trial and error yeah the
0:24:10 only thing i could really say as well is
0:24:12 just to have patience with it if you're
0:24:13 watching it and because some people they
0:24:15 get a bit disheartened
0:24:17 when they hear a lot of language that
0:24:18 they're not really familiar with and
0:24:19 they're like i don't know what that
0:24:20 means i don't know what that means yeah
0:24:21 and they just sort of give up but the
0:24:23 thing is is that we went through that
0:24:26 same process like my whole first year in
0:24:29 uni was just
0:24:30 banging me against the wall because yeah
0:24:32 i'm having to like
0:24:33 i've heard this word like a million
0:24:36 times
0:24:37 and i still don't really know if i
0:24:38 understand it like if someone was to ask
0:24:40 me to define it could i do that
0:24:43 um
0:24:44 you know and it's just a case of just
0:24:46 pushing through and the more you become
0:24:48 exposed to that language the more you
0:24:50 start to understand the context of it
0:24:52 and
0:24:53 how it fits in and you know what's being
0:24:55 communicated when you said it and it's
0:24:57 important because when you start getting
0:24:59 into certain conversations and they get
0:25:01 a bit more abstract you need to be able
0:25:03 to use these words to save time because
0:25:06 otherwise it just derails the
0:25:07 conversation like if we have to explain
0:25:10 what epistemology is or what ontology is
0:25:12 or blah
0:25:14 every time we say that word then we're
0:25:16 never going to really have the
0:25:17 conversation that we're trying to have
0:25:20 yeah no absolutely and you know the i
0:25:22 think the fundamental sort of i guess
0:25:25 challenge here
0:25:27 to have a connected conversation
0:25:30 that's still meaningful without losing
0:25:32 the audience
0:25:33 and that is a talent i mean that is a
0:25:35 real talent and i think you know jake i
0:25:37 think certainly from your earlier
0:25:38 discussions i think more recent ones
0:25:41 i think your conversations are certainly
0:25:42 more
0:25:44 comprehensible let me say
0:25:47 because i think earlier on i think i i
0:25:49 would sort of say it was
0:25:51 more jargon
0:25:53 less comprehension
0:25:54 and i think now i think as you
0:25:57 as you've sort of developed in your
0:25:58 channel and develops in the discussion
0:26:00 i'm noticing
0:26:01 that you're certainly more fluid in how
0:26:03 you're talking
0:26:04 and you're certainly more sort of
0:26:06 balanced in making sure the jargon is
0:26:08 balanced with some clarification
0:26:10 statements following it right yeah now
0:26:13 i i know i mean i understand when you're
0:26:15 talking to an academic
0:26:17 you really want to maintain the
0:26:18 conversation at a higher level because
0:26:20 it's important you you maintain the flow
0:26:24 but this is the thing i mean this is
0:26:25 what i think the audience needs to
0:26:27 understand is is the academic discussion
0:26:30 is there to get to a point
0:26:32 you need to get to a conclusion
0:26:35 otherwise you'll have had an hour and a
0:26:36 half of discussion or not really
0:26:37 achieved anything which is you know
0:26:39 pointless because everybody's busy so i
0:26:42 appreciate that and i think the audience
0:26:43 like you say i mean i'm with you yusuf i
0:26:44 think
0:26:46 the
0:26:48 the
0:26:49 discipline specific language aside i
0:26:52 think it's important people put the work
0:26:53 in
0:26:54 if you want to understand this stuff
0:26:57 then don't just listen to the program
0:26:59 yeah listen to it pause go do some
0:27:03 homework
0:27:04 come back and then listen to the next
0:27:05 section
0:27:06 yeah exactly
0:27:08 well you need to do the work you need to
0:27:09 do the work guys you know
0:27:11 because what what i had to do i had a
0:27:13 little notebook
0:27:15 and i'm not big on taking notes but if
0:27:17 there's words that kept popping up um
0:27:20 that i didn't understand i get them
0:27:22 defined and then just write them at the
0:27:23 back of this notebook yes and then if
0:27:26 the word kept popping up you just open
0:27:27 it and you just check it
0:27:29 and like if you're sort of binging on
0:27:31 our material for example you should be
0:27:33 doing stuff like that because the whole
0:27:35 point of it is it's
0:27:36 supposed to be a learning platform
0:27:38 you're supposed to be coming here to
0:27:39 learn it's not just like netflix it's
0:27:41 not
0:27:42 so
0:27:44 one of the first texts you get given
0:27:47 when you first do research is it's this
0:27:49 book
0:27:50 have you seen this
0:27:52 you're cutting it off
0:27:54 so
0:27:55 sociological paradigms and
0:27:57 organizational analysis
0:27:59 so this is in the world of business
0:28:01 right this is my background right this
0:28:02 is what i do working so one of the this
0:28:05 is one of the first texts you get given
0:28:07 and what it does it says basically what
0:28:10 are different world views people have
0:28:12 right when they look at a particular
0:28:14 topic
0:28:14 so before you even start the topic you
0:28:17 got to go do some work on
0:28:20 what does it mean to do certain things
0:28:22 so for example in your world you know
0:28:24 when you talk about good and evil and
0:28:26 and the philosophy of of ethics
0:28:30 you need to first of all ask well what's
0:28:31 the method ethical framework well what
0:28:33 does that mean that means
0:28:36 the word good
0:28:37 does it have any meaning intrinsic
0:28:39 meaning in of itself and where did it
0:28:40 come from why is it valuable
0:28:43 oh you can establish that then you move
0:28:45 but a lot of folks they don't understand
0:28:47 these nuances and so they they listen to
0:28:49 the conversation
0:28:51 and think you're repeating
0:28:53 the or think
0:28:55 things are being repeated when they're
0:28:56 not because they don't appreciate the
0:28:58 nuance
0:28:59 and i remember a great example one of my
0:29:01 um
0:29:03 professors gave me he said you know
0:29:06 he said look
0:29:07 at school
0:29:09 you're told
0:29:10 there is no square root of minus one
0:29:14 you get to higher mathematics
0:29:17 and you can't live without it
0:29:19 because the whole of
0:29:21 sort of
0:29:22 engineering and mathematics relies on
0:29:24 the idea of complex numbers
0:29:27 and so it isn't that it's useless
0:29:29 it's just that at the level of school
0:29:31 and at the level of education you get
0:29:32 sort of under under 16
0:29:35 it's just not important for you to
0:29:37 understand
0:29:38 how important this number is
0:29:41 when you get to the higher levels you
0:29:42 really sort of begin to appreciate how
0:29:44 intrinsic it is to a lot of really how
0:29:47 things are built and some of the
0:29:49 discussions you're having i think really
0:29:51 around some of the frameworks especially
0:29:53 the meta
0:29:55 dash framework discussions that you have
0:29:58 those are to me some of the most
0:29:59 important discussions really
0:30:01 because you because really what you're
0:30:03 demonstrating for the first time
0:30:05 is to really ask the question behind the
0:30:07 question
0:30:08 yeah
0:30:09 why are we having this discussion in the
0:30:10 first place
0:30:13 and
0:30:16 one moment
0:30:27 breakfast arrived did you order
0:30:29 something or maybe they ordered it again
0:30:31 let me check
0:30:33 we've got coffees that have arrived but
0:30:35 we didn't order anything yeah no but
0:30:37 it's it is
0:30:38 it's honestly
0:30:39 oh it is yeah yeah okay
0:30:42 yeah
0:30:42 all right thank you thank you very much
0:30:44 he probably just ordered it early thank
0:30:46 you no he's not even here he's not
0:30:47 talking about
0:30:48 so
0:30:53 let me ring him
0:30:55 but yeah no definitely um
0:30:58 sorry sorry that was a bit of a curve
0:31:00 so
0:31:01 what i was really getting onto was this
0:31:03 idea of i remember i know a lot of the
0:31:05 folks that can recall who especially the
0:31:07 atheists that come on let me just think
0:31:09 they come on
0:31:10 with a very pragmatic view
0:31:13 of some really fundamental concepts
0:31:16 and then really don't understand
0:31:18 that they need to justify them
0:31:20 and i think this word justify is
0:31:23 completely misunderstood by them
0:31:25 they really don't get what it means to
0:31:27 justify some of their views
0:31:30 well it's natural it's it's intuitive
0:31:33 okay but that's not good enough guys
0:31:36 you know i had that problem
0:31:38 yeah because it was a brother
0:31:40 he came on and he kept saying
0:31:42 um you know if if god is if a lot is
0:31:44 real as ojo
0:31:47 then wouldn't uh islam be the the
0:31:49 biggest religion
0:31:51 and i was like well why why would it be
0:31:53 he's like well it's obvious it's obvious
0:31:54 and then he just kept sort of like
0:31:56 reiterating the conclusion i was like no
0:31:58 no you just sort of i'm asking you why
0:32:00 like what are the what are the reasons
0:32:02 for you thinking that it's obvious
0:32:04 exactly i don't think yes i don't like
0:32:06 for me
0:32:07 truth isn't dependent upon how many
0:32:08 people are following it exactly
0:32:11 one person in the world believing it
0:32:13 and just because there's only one person
0:32:14 it doesn't follow from that
0:32:16 that it's not true or true
0:32:19 truth is is truth whether there's no
0:32:21 people
0:32:22 yeah i mean if it's if if it's objective
0:32:24 truth then whether we exist or don't
0:32:26 exist that truth is truth
0:32:29 and exactly
0:32:30 people don't people don't get that and
0:32:32 to me i think i find that quite funny
0:32:34 actually when i listen to them because
0:32:36 usually they come on really gunko
0:32:38 you know blah blah blah i have
0:32:41 and then then you sort of slowly sort of
0:32:43 take them down to sort of but what are
0:32:45 your foundational justifications for
0:32:47 doing this and it's like well it's
0:32:49 natural isn't it
0:32:50 yeah no but that's not good enough guys
0:32:52 so so i think those discussions to me
0:32:55 have been very enlightening in terms of
0:32:57 how
0:32:59 um
0:33:01 what what what's the word how shaky
0:33:05 the so-called foundations of this
0:33:07 atheist logic is exactly yeah and that's
0:33:10 it's very important because
0:33:13 and
0:33:14 some people even some muslims don't
0:33:16 understand
0:33:18 when listening to me discuss with
0:33:21 atheists or argue with them
0:33:23 is you have to start off with their um
0:33:27 sort of epistemological assumptions
0:33:30 right
0:33:30 these different things that we're
0:33:31 talking about whether it be scientism
0:33:34 or um
0:33:35 their approach to knowledge in general
0:33:38 right because
0:33:39 if they have a totally different way of
0:33:42 looking at these things
0:33:44 you can't you can't really get anywhere
0:33:46 about discussing
0:33:48 god or islam the quran
0:33:52 you got to start like with baby steps at
0:33:54 the very basic to say look
0:33:57 okay you're coming at it from this angle
0:33:59 and you're right brother muhammad they
0:34:01 always come in very strong and like you
0:34:03 know
0:34:04 matter of fact as if whatever they're
0:34:06 saying is just uh
0:34:08 sort of gospel gospel so to speak and
0:34:11 which is incredibly ironic yeah yeah
0:34:15 right
0:34:16 and um
0:34:18 and so you got to knock them down a peg
0:34:20 and and say
0:34:22 listen buddy you think that you're like
0:34:25 on this magnificent palace with a great
0:34:28 foundation
0:34:29 but really your entire foundation is
0:34:31 built upon sand yes and i always give
0:34:34 this analogy because
0:34:35 uh that's my experience with atheists
0:34:38 hello hello hello
0:34:40 uh that's coming out one
0:34:43 okay yeah are you live yeah
0:34:58 so have you guys paid your rent for
0:35:00 using our office for this one
0:35:02 no
0:35:03 i'm only joking i'm only joking
0:35:06 so how many can brothers and sisters you
0:35:08 guys carry on i'm gonna have my coffee
0:35:09 and stuff no problem
0:35:10 yeah it's right there brother second i
0:35:12 got your coffee you got all right
0:35:14 i'm sleeping with some coffee no i'm
0:35:15 good you sure yeah there's something
0:35:17 next door no no i don't drink coffee
0:35:19 really yeah he's a weird one
0:35:22 i said that too
0:35:25 you know so
0:35:26 what i would i mean the analogy i often
0:35:28 think of when i when i watch these guys
0:35:30 is they turn up to a football match
0:35:33 with a tennis racket
0:35:35 right
0:35:36 and they think
0:35:38 because it's a ball game
0:35:41 they they seem to think that whatever
0:35:44 kit they've brought along is good enough
0:35:46 for the game they're going into yeah
0:35:48 they're bringing in a nice a gun show
0:35:50 well well i didn't want to use that but
0:35:52 but
0:35:53 let's use the exact so they turn up to
0:35:54 football match with a tennis racket
0:35:56 saying well it's a ball game right
0:35:58 what's the issue
0:35:59 oh yeah
0:36:00 you know do you understand so
0:36:02 so the goal here is first of all you've
0:36:03 got to tell them yes it's a ball game
0:36:05 but let's understand do you understand
0:36:07 the concept of ball first of all
0:36:09 because the ball we're talking about is
0:36:11 different to the ball you're talking
0:36:12 about yeah it's funny how all these
0:36:14 things yeah
0:36:15 because i was having this conversation
0:36:16 with someone the other day
0:36:18 and i was talking about like like for
0:36:20 example if two people were using the
0:36:22 word atom but you've got someone from
0:36:24 like ancient greece and then you've got
0:36:26 like a modern scientist and they're both
0:36:28 they're both using this word atom atom
0:36:30 and they're debating and arguing with
0:36:32 each other and
0:36:33 saying what you can do and what you
0:36:34 can't do with the atom
0:36:36 and um but in the they're not using the
0:36:38 word in the same way like atom for the
0:36:40 ancient greeks well what i was just
0:36:42 telling you about she was talking about
0:36:44 that earlier
0:36:47 what was i saying um
0:36:49 yeah for the ancient greeks the atom was
0:36:51 that which was indivisible yeah they
0:36:54 were talking about like the most
0:36:55 fundamental
0:36:57 party party yes yeah whereas today
0:36:59 that's not what it means we know like
0:37:01 because the atom
0:37:02 has been
0:37:05 split yes um well we know that because
0:37:08 of nuclear weapons etcetera yeah so the
0:37:10 word is the same
0:37:11 but it's it's that it has a different
0:37:13 definition and so if you're not having
0:37:15 the conversation about what do you mean
0:37:17 when you use this word exactly what do
0:37:19 you mean when you say atom if you forget
0:37:22 that which is the most important bit and
0:37:24 just have a debate with each other about
0:37:26 it blah blah blah wow you're not even
0:37:27 talking about the same thing absolutely
0:37:29 right and so there may not actually be a
0:37:31 disagreement with certain things
0:37:34 um you just
0:37:35 think you are because you're just making
0:37:37 this assumption the other person means
0:37:38 the same thing when they use this word
0:37:40 so like when and this happens a lot when
0:37:42 you're talking to atheists especially
0:37:43 when they come from like a western
0:37:45 background and they have like a maybe a
0:37:47 christian history of some sort
0:37:49 um they are constantly thinking of this
0:37:52 about you know the sky daddy sort of
0:37:54 typical image you see on the roofs of
0:37:56 church
0:37:57 um that kind of god and when
0:38:00 you know as muslims we don't believe
0:38:01 that we don't believe in this sort of
0:38:03 typical
0:38:05 uh old gray beard man in the sky sort of
0:38:08 thing um yeah so it this is where the
0:38:11 the fundamental conversation comes in
0:38:13 like you clarify what you mean by the
0:38:16 the words you're using um you know what
0:38:18 what is your foundation for things how
0:38:21 do you see the world
0:38:23 try to find the middle ground this is
0:38:25 what um you brothers were doing when uh
0:38:27 having a conversation with aaron
0:38:30 it was just trying to establish a common
0:38:32 ground so that you know you're having
0:38:33 the same conversation so you know that
0:38:35 you're discussing the same thing and
0:38:37 you're not just talking over each other
0:38:40 and you know i often use the analogy of
0:38:42 it's like asking the goldfish does he
0:38:45 know what water is
0:38:48 right yes
0:38:50 because you're born into this thing i
0:38:52 i'm talking about this sort of secular
0:38:55 western
0:38:56 sort of post-enlightenment atheistic
0:38:58 framework
0:39:00 and you just imbibe it you just absorb
0:39:02 it
0:39:03 and you don't even realize you're living
0:39:04 in it
0:39:06 right and then somebody comes to you and
0:39:07 says so what are your core beliefs and
0:39:09 it's like what do you mean core beliefs
0:39:11 this is just what reality is yeah and
0:39:14 it's like they're in this goldfish bowl
0:39:16 they're born into this sort of water
0:39:19 and they don't realize water is water
0:39:20 and there's actually another world out
0:39:22 there where there is no water and
0:39:23 actually things can exist in this thing
0:39:25 and
0:39:26 um yeah exactly and so i think that
0:39:30 conversation needs to be had with a
0:39:32 number of the people that come on the on
0:39:34 the program but i think a number of our
0:39:36 sort of audience needs to also
0:39:37 appreciate that
0:39:38 those discussions are very important in
0:39:40 on the street as well you know when you
0:39:42 come across individuals it's important
0:39:44 to ask them so
0:39:46 what do you mean when you when when we
0:39:48 say the word for example simple words
0:39:50 like god
0:39:51 worship prophet
0:39:53 uh what does it mean by message what
0:39:54 does it mean by revelation
0:39:56 because even these simple words actually
0:39:58 have different meanings depending on
0:40:00 where they come from and the baggage
0:40:02 they're bringing to the discussion
0:40:04 yeah definitely definitely and you shall
0:40:06 look fantastic
0:40:08 bringing it back to what we were talking
0:40:09 about with our channel as well so when
0:40:11 we have these conversations and they
0:40:12 might go over people's heads
0:40:14 um we i we probably should do it a bit
0:40:17 more as well to be honest where we break
0:40:19 down
0:40:20 certain parts so we try to do reviews
0:40:22 yeah and it might even be worth just not
0:40:24 just doing reviews of the whole video
0:40:26 but of a particular part where there's a
0:40:28 particular thing being said right we can
0:40:30 just break that down and spend i don't
0:40:32 know 10 20 minutes talking about a
0:40:34 particular
0:40:35 element or
0:40:37 section offer yes so i did actually have
0:40:40 i remember the um the discussion um the
0:40:44 with jordan peterson
0:40:46 um where he said something and i was
0:40:49 gonna ask you actually yusuf about it
0:40:52 because he mentioned some very bizarre
0:40:54 concepts all in one paragraph
0:40:57 that had completely no relationship with
0:40:59 each other and i i i think he was just
0:41:01 babbling at that point to be honest with
0:41:03 you
0:41:04 it might not
0:41:19 yeah i can't here we go
0:41:22 because i sort of highlighted it
0:41:24 um
0:41:25 as a
0:41:27 what was it in a an article or something
0:41:29 no no this was in the mohammed hijab
0:41:31 peter
0:41:33Music 0:41:35 and what he basically said was
0:41:41 yeah there we go he he mixed
0:41:43 yeah that was so it was at
0:41:46 um let me share my screen if i can share
0:41:49 my screen here very quickly
0:41:53 um actually downloaded the the text and
0:41:55 i was going this is just crazy man um
0:41:58 where are we
0:42:00 are you getting that up everyone who
0:42:01 hasn't subscribed do so now because
0:42:03 we're nearly at 10k are we
0:42:06 uh yeah oh i thought we
0:42:08 were saying we're getting closer as
0:42:10 we're on the stream i don't know where
0:42:11 we'll find out now i'll have a look
0:42:13 we're at 97
0:42:15 hundred
0:42:16 yeah if we don't get into seven kills
0:42:19 come on guys another couple of hundred
0:42:20 and we're almost there i mean this is
0:42:22 just i don't know if it's not on
0:42:24 yeah um
0:42:26 we need to get it it's not even sure
0:42:28 i know man what's going on so by the way
0:42:31 i i by the way i'm at work right now so
0:42:34 oh my god naughty
0:42:37 hello
0:42:39 um
0:42:46 or something um
0:42:48 which one am i sharing this one
0:42:50 you'll say that or you have taken an
0:42:52 earlier oh yeah i know i have
0:42:56 look i work from home yes so can you see
0:42:58 my screen here this one yeah yeah yeah
0:43:01 the excel you see the excel spreadsheet
0:43:02 thing
0:43:03 yeah there we go yeah so
0:43:06 this is at like 2633
0:43:09 and and he sort of comes in and says him
0:43:12 really he says yes so okay let me tell
0:43:13 you something about things i've been
0:43:15 thinking about in relationship to i can
0:43:16 play the video if you want that might be
0:43:18 better yeah i just want to say bro your
0:43:20 notes game is
0:43:23 uh that is top notch
0:43:27 you need to
0:43:28 show me your methodology for taking
0:43:31 notes
0:43:32 okay so good uh are we seeing my screen
0:43:35 here now no let me share my screen again
0:43:37 let me just
0:43:38 there we go it's come through you need
0:43:40 to make sure you share the audio as well
0:43:41 yeah i'll share the audio as well um
0:43:46 do you want me to unshare let me just
0:43:48 stop sharing and learn to share again
0:43:50 with with sound
0:43:52 um
0:43:56 yeah too many windows
0:44:01 share screen
0:44:04 yeah we had
0:44:06 a full english he nearly went for the
0:44:09 pork by accident because i told him
0:44:10 about the veggie sausages
0:44:12 and he didn't realize
0:44:15 which ones are the veggie sausages he
0:44:16 was over by the bacon section
0:44:18 no
0:44:21 don't eat the bacon so
0:44:23 can we share the sound here this one
0:44:25 yeah yeah yeah of course yeah yeah but
0:44:26 just answer carlos as well um so that is
0:44:29 the planning challenge we're going to
0:44:30 try and do it on the 16th so hopefully
0:44:32 we get to 10k before then
0:44:34 um so we're just going to keep plugging
0:44:36 it as often as we can in all the live
0:44:38 streams if you're doing until now and
0:44:39 then
0:44:40 inshallah
0:44:42 so just for the folks um
0:44:44 the context of this part of the
0:44:46 conversation
0:44:47 yeah was that muhammadi job has just
0:44:50 finished a very very short
0:44:53 overview of the seerah
0:44:55 so remember in the conversation he gave
0:44:57 a very quick overview of why
0:45:00 is the prophet
0:45:02 the trials and tribulations that he went
0:45:03 through and they briefly discussed
0:45:05 isaiah 42 11.
0:45:07 and then he sort of basically said well
0:45:11 uh jordan peterson then comes in and
0:45:13 says well you know
0:45:14 that's another point but let me try and
0:45:16 talk a little bit about why i believe
0:45:18 what i believe so this is the beast when
0:45:20 he talks about this okay let me
0:45:22 let me if you can hear this
0:45:24 so let me let me tell you about some
0:45:26 things i've been thinking about yeah
0:45:29 eye contact
0:45:30 whoa damn ads man
0:45:33 a lot of eye contact
0:45:37 well
0:45:38 you know that
0:45:39 nietzsche announced the death of god in
0:45:41 the late 1800s and
0:45:44 you know what the consequences of that
0:45:46 being have been at least to some degree
0:45:48 and of course dostoevsky was talking
0:45:50 about exactly the same things at pretty
0:45:51 much exactly the same time but
0:45:53 the
0:45:54 philosopher of religion merce eliad
0:45:57 in his historical investigations
0:45:59 indicated that
0:46:01 the the death of god is something that
0:46:03 has happened to many cultures in many
0:46:05 places over many times it's not a unique
0:46:07 event in let's say western history
0:46:11 and his explanation for that at least in
0:46:13 part was that
0:46:15 as there's a movement towards
0:46:17 unification under a monotheistic
0:46:20 umbrella let's say which is perhaps a
0:46:22 precondition for the union of diverse
0:46:24 people
0:46:26 the
0:46:27 the one of the consequences of that is
0:46:29 that that central unifying
0:46:32 value becomes so abstracted because it
0:46:34 has to cover such a multiplicity it
0:46:36 becomes so abstracted that it becomes
0:46:38 sufficiently
0:46:40 it flies away in some he called that
0:46:42 deos abscondis if i remember correctly
0:46:44 is that the idea of the spirit just
0:46:46 flies away because it no longer has an
0:46:48 attachment to the world
0:46:50 and one of the ways that christianity
0:46:52 solved that if you think about it from a
0:46:54 psychological perspective was by
0:46:58 was by insisting upon the presence of
0:47:00 god
0:47:02 in a canonic form right in an emptied
0:47:04 form in a partially emptied form in the
0:47:07 person of christ in a particular place
0:47:09 at a particular time and it's it's a
0:47:11 variant of the prophetic idea although
0:47:14 taken to its absolute extreme the
0:47:16 prophetic idea is that there are people
0:47:18 who are marked out in history marked out
0:47:20 by god by their relationship with what's
0:47:22 highest in some spectacular manner
0:47:25 and so
0:47:27 i guess one of the things i would say
0:47:28 about
0:47:29 the the islamic islamic resistance to
0:47:31 the idea of the divinity of christ is
0:47:34 that
0:47:34 there is an emphasis on islam on the
0:47:37 special status of prophets of certain
0:47:40 prophets and their particular special
0:47:43 relationship with god which seems to
0:47:44 elevate them
0:47:46 above other men in some important sense
0:47:48 and so and drawing a line precisely
0:47:50 between that claim and the claim of
0:47:52 divinity incarnate is not an easy matter
0:47:55 so
0:47:56 i i would actually disagree with that
0:47:59 so
0:48:01 so he brings in the idea of nietzsche
0:48:03 day of subscribers
0:48:05 canosis
0:48:06 he starts off by trying to justify and
0:48:08 defend christianity
0:48:11 what what do you think he was trying to
0:48:13 try to say here what was he actually
0:48:15 trying to say here so he opened up with
0:48:19 talking about how
0:48:20 like a multiplicity of information
0:48:23 because of this sort of
0:48:25 like you know collect did you you
0:48:27 mentioned multiculturalism or something
0:48:28 at one point anyway so you got like a
0:48:30 collection of people from different
0:48:31 places with different beliefs
0:48:33 and that sort of confuses or muddles the
0:48:35 picture
0:48:36 to some degree
0:48:37 and that's what sort of motivates the
0:48:39 death of god and which is why it's
0:48:41 happened plenty of times because there's
0:48:42 been plenty of times when multiple
0:48:44 cultures have sort of
0:48:45 um
0:48:47 met in some sort of mixing pot
0:48:49 i'm guessing like metropolitan areas or
0:48:52 large cities
0:48:54 throughout history and
0:48:56 then he moved from that
0:48:58 to talking about
0:49:00 dostoyevsky
0:49:02 yeah yeah
0:49:05 yeah so i don't see dostoevsky
0:49:07 and eliad
0:49:09 i don't see the relationship there
0:49:14 elliott
0:49:16 so okay i guess he's mentioning them
0:49:18 because they were commenting on
0:49:21 the dossiers
0:49:22 yeah dostoyevsky had a similar idea in
0:49:25 terms of
0:49:26 because for nietzsche it wasn't just the
0:49:28 death of god was just not god doesn't
0:49:31 exist it was
0:49:32 you know objective morality goes out the
0:49:35 window objective meaning
0:49:38 all of these different things and uh
0:49:40 dostoyevsky was essentially making the
0:49:42 same point so
0:49:44 i think that's what he was saying yeah
0:49:46 and then he moved from that
0:49:48 to talking about
0:49:51 the vacuum or something what was it no
0:49:54 deos have conditions so you know where
0:49:57 god is absent right
0:49:59 yeah
0:50:00 but but
0:50:02 and the reason and the reason he says
0:50:04 that is amazing
0:50:06 sorry
0:50:07 he wants to jump in oh okay
0:50:10 welcome
0:50:12 i'm just gonna um just comment because
0:50:14 usually when something comes in my head
0:50:16 i'm using it quite sometimes when it
0:50:18 comes to these issues i have to say
0:50:19 something so i did ask permission
0:50:21 um
0:50:22 i think he made complete
0:50:24 sense but i think it's the problem is
0:50:27 you have to understand his own
0:50:28 background
0:50:30 uh journey as well so
0:50:32 what he's trying to say is
0:50:34 and this is obviously my interpretation
0:50:36 right he's trying to say that
0:50:38 the death of god in a knee-chained sense
0:50:40 which is the death of god god doesn't
0:50:42 exist in people's hearts anymore
0:50:45 that happens as a result of
0:50:47 monotheism because monotheism has a
0:50:50 power of bringing different people
0:50:52 together under the kind of monotheistic
0:50:54 umbrella but becomes so valuable that he
0:50:57 basically flies away as he says and it
0:50:59 becomes abstract to the degree that it's
0:51:02 not connected to the divine anymore it's
0:51:03 not spirit it's not it's not connected
0:51:05 to the spirit anymore
0:51:07 so what he was subtly trying to say was
0:51:08 is that actually christianity deals with
0:51:10 the problem of secularism and islam
0:51:12 doesn't i think because what he's saying
0:51:13 is it's and that's why he mentioned
0:51:15 other thinkers because he's saying it's
0:51:18 not just western societies all societies
0:51:20 that have the problem of the death of
0:51:21 god because they do so well
0:51:24 or they are solving a particular social
0:51:26 political problem that people are united
0:51:28 and this idea becomes so abstracted away
0:51:30 from the divine because it works to that
0:51:32 degree they forget that where it came
0:51:34 from
0:51:36 he's basically saying that this is why
0:51:38 you have you know a
0:51:40 a divine vacuum from that perspective
0:51:42 there is no no link to the divine
0:51:43 anymore he says christianity solves that
0:51:46 problem by the whole i want and then you
0:51:48 understand the kenosis so he brings in
0:51:50 kenosis for that yes so in actual fact
0:51:53 he he made a hell of a lot of sense in a
0:51:55 very short concise way only if you know
0:51:57 what he's trying to get at so he was
0:51:59 subtly in my view trying to say well you
0:52:01 know muslims have got the death of god
0:52:03 now maybe and this is just my you know
0:52:05 protraction of his argument
0:52:07 death of god is in your societies right
0:52:09 it's just you know surfaces it's lost
0:52:11 its kind of connect connection to the
0:52:13 divine just because you know you guys
0:52:15 just moving on as you are culturally and
0:52:18 then he's saying
0:52:19 that actually maybe the the concept of
0:52:22 jesus actually tries to solve that
0:52:23 problem he tried to link it with
0:52:25 obviously our understanding of prophets
0:52:27 and the elevated status which i think
0:52:29 was obviously a problem um but in terms
0:52:32 of the whole
0:52:33 you know abstraction idea i thought it
0:52:34 was really smart so it's like an
0:52:36 anthropo uh anthropology perhaps yes so
0:52:40 he's dealing from a
0:52:41 kind of macro social psychological point
0:52:44 of view how it affects the individual
0:52:45 because you know take take ah just
0:52:47 reflect on our society in britain you
0:52:49 know we have a secular liberal society
0:52:52 and in a second liberal society you
0:52:54 can't trace many of these ideals to
0:52:55 tradition right
0:52:57 in some way even though maybe you know
0:53:00 it could be a misplacement of tradition
0:53:02 or whatever the case may be
0:53:04 but there is even our intuitions even
0:53:07 now and that's definitely changing our
0:53:09 iterations of some forms of
0:53:12 you
0:53:12 know deontological ethics or believing
0:53:16 that some things are you know morally
0:53:18 real moral realism to a certain degree
0:53:20 you know those things have set some kind
0:53:22 of grounding in scripture or some
0:53:24 grounding in a spiritual tradition or in
0:53:26 a religious tradition but people have
0:53:28 forgot that you know
0:53:30 even islam that you could you could you
0:53:32 could link
0:53:34 law western law
0:53:36 to the madahib the rule of law to the
0:53:38 madahip like the islamic tradition
0:53:41 has influenced the world in such a
0:53:43 profound way in so many ways and one
0:53:45 would even argue things like uh you know
0:53:49 innocent being innocent before your
0:53:52 before you dictate guilty right that
0:53:55 according to uh i forgot his name now
0:53:57 but
0:53:57 there is a paper that was written in the
0:53:59 80s
0:54:00 that he cites king louis the ninth
0:54:03 a
0:54:04 a monk or some learned person going to
0:54:06 the east
0:54:07 and he basically
0:54:10 and he basically goes to this uh learned
0:54:12 muslim person and he learns something
0:54:14 that looks like a hadith on this issue
0:54:16 he goes back and i think it was either
0:54:18 kingly in the ninth or someone who
0:54:19 influenced king lou the ninth and then
0:54:21 after that they started forming an idea
0:54:23 of you know
0:54:25 you go you don't assume people are
0:54:26 guilty
0:54:27 because that came from the christian
0:54:28 tradition in a way because you have
0:54:30 inherent sin but in the islamic
0:54:32 tradition we're inherently good to a
0:54:34 certain degree because of our fitra
0:54:36 and yeah so it's very interesting i mean
0:54:38 there's more time back there i have to
0:54:39 bring the reference so
0:54:41 that's what i want to say bro
0:54:45 only if you know how to connect his dots
0:54:46 if you've been following him i guess
0:54:48 so my take on this my take on this was
0:54:52 in a way i mean so i don't i mean i
0:54:54 agree with everything you've said by the
0:54:56 way
0:54:56 but i think in a way he was
0:54:58 demonstrating why profithood is
0:55:01 necessary
0:55:03 right why we needed to have profits over
0:55:05 the years
0:55:06 nice yeah this was my take on this right
0:55:09 because what he said is if you have
0:55:11 repeated ages
0:55:13 of where the practice supersedes the
0:55:16 spirituality
0:55:18 and you forget the spirituality
0:55:20 then you actually end up on a path of
0:55:22 divergence
0:55:23 and then then god allah has to
0:55:26 almost become imminent again to remind
0:55:28 you and the imminence in christianity
0:55:31 is obviously the kenosis the emptying
0:55:34 and god became man but the imminence for
0:55:36 us is profited
0:55:38 yes because because that's how we are
0:55:40 reminded
0:55:41 that we've diverted and we've become
0:55:43 lost
0:55:44 so i think
0:55:45 i mean look
0:55:47 i wanted to bring it on because because
0:55:49 he brought in so many concepts and when
0:55:50 you unpack it you realize that in a in a
0:55:53 strange kind of way he was actually
0:55:55 justifying the necessary need for the
0:55:58 mbr and the line of prophethood
0:56:00 yeah absolutely and what's what that's
0:56:03 that's very insightful
0:56:04 uh and what's interesting is from the
0:56:07 islamic perspective the sunnah is
0:56:09 actually a living tradition exactly
0:56:12 you can't really argue that with the
0:56:14 person the person of christ in the
0:56:17 christian tradition in terms of you know
0:56:19 you could possibly write everything he
0:56:21 said down on half a a4 piece of paper
0:56:24 right
0:56:25 um but with the islamic tradition with
0:56:27 the sunnah it's actually living in every
0:56:28 aspect of your life
0:56:31 this is the thing so i think
0:56:33 the concept of transcendence is is given
0:56:36 i agree
0:56:37 but i think when they think of
0:56:39 transcendence and this disconnectedness
0:56:41 that they have which is the only way god
0:56:44 can be present is if he manifests itself
0:56:46 as ma as god on earth
0:56:49 then what what they've done in the
0:56:51 christians tradition is actually broken
0:56:53 the connection themselves because they
0:56:56 only get one go at it which is
0:56:58 at the time that jesus came that's the
0:57:00 only time to get that reminder whereas
0:57:02 for islam
0:57:04 in our tradition we've had it repeatedly
0:57:07 and we continue to have it repeatedly
0:57:09 because we still have the quran with us
0:57:11 yeah and the importance is the
0:57:13 preservation of the texts as well
0:57:15 exactly exactly so we haven't lost it
0:57:18 preserved whereas
0:57:19 theirs hasn't and so yes that's that's
0:57:22 the other issue but from a psychological
0:57:24 perspective if you think about just
0:57:26 bring it down to a jordan
0:57:29 from a psychological perspective there
0:57:32 is no really following the sunnah of isa
0:57:34 alaihissalam
0:57:36 of course exactly
0:57:37 it's not embedded in your social
0:57:39 structures not embedded in your psyche
0:57:41 it's just this abstract idea that some
0:57:44 person was sacrificed for me right which
0:57:46 hence pay or subscribe today or
0:57:49 subscribe if you would even argue that
0:57:51 is not a manifestation of maximal love
0:57:53 because maximal love because in the
0:57:56 christian and islamic tradition we
0:57:58 believe in the maximal perfection of the
0:57:59 divine and you know maximal love is not
0:58:03 basically you know sin is so bad that it
0:58:07 basically besmirches the relation
0:58:09 between the divine and his creature that
0:58:11 he created to be weak and he can't
0:58:13 forgive him at all unless he does this
0:58:16 so forgiveness is not based on the
0:58:18 relation between man and god but
0:58:20 basically you know god has to
0:58:22 uh deal with something else has to have
0:58:24 some kind of blood sacrifice outside of
0:58:26 that relationship
0:58:28 which is not maximum love but the point
0:58:30 i want to say here is about the
0:58:31 psychological perspective when it comes
0:58:34 to the son of the prophet
0:58:35 alaihi who's someone following him that
0:58:37 is actually a way of filling that void
0:58:39 that spiritual voice absolutely right
0:58:42 allah says in the quran to the prophet
0:58:44 say if you love allah then follow me
0:58:47 meaning follow muhammad sallam
0:58:49 and allah will love you and forgive your
0:58:52 sins so just following the prophet
0:58:54 sallallahu alaihi wasallam is actually a
0:58:57 means to divine love and to divine
0:58:59 forgiveness and it's and that following
0:59:01 is what because iman is your heart your
0:59:03 tongue what you say how you relate to
0:59:05 yourself how you relate to others how
0:59:06 you relate to allah it's your state of
0:59:08 being your state of being changes by an
0:59:11 abstract belief that someone got
0:59:12 sacrificed like
0:59:14 2 000 years ago it's not the same from a
0:59:16 psychological perspective so jordan
0:59:18 should be looking into the right place
0:59:20 which is following the prophets
0:59:25 that was great thank you
0:59:26 thank you for joining us god bless you
0:59:28 you're very articulate i've never heard
0:59:29 you before i think but i'm really
0:59:31 impressed the way you articulate
0:59:32 yourself when i preserve you and your
0:59:33 family
0:59:35 i mean
0:59:36 that's interesting because um
0:59:38 like this idea of following the sunnah
0:59:40 of the prophet muhammad they you can't
0:59:42 do that with isa alaihissalam and
0:59:44 christianity because they've made him
0:59:46 god
0:59:47 exactly exactly
0:59:49 there's this whole issue with like
0:59:51 you know the the inherited sin
0:59:54 so we are like
0:59:56 so far apart from what islam is in the
1:00:00 christian tradition
1:00:01 that like the whole idea itself makes it
1:00:04 impossible to follow the son of the
1:00:06 prophet isa alaihissalam
1:00:08 you can't because he according to them
1:00:10 is god
1:00:11 and we are absolutely
1:00:17 which is the death of god is a
1:00:20 consequence of that particular
1:00:23 theological stance in their tradition
1:00:26 right
1:00:27 and i think
1:00:29 for us now in the in the sort of the
1:00:30 contemporary world
1:00:32 everywhere that that particular
1:00:34 philosophy
1:00:35 has
1:00:37 embedded itself as part of the secular
1:00:39 liberal sort of ideology the consequence
1:00:43 is a forgetfulness of god
1:00:46 and one of the consequences is there an
1:00:47 atheism right and and it's almost like
1:00:52 this is the symptom before you get to
1:00:54 the disease the symptom is you must have
1:00:57 this disconnected belief of god
1:01:01 then you arrive at this conclusion which
1:01:02 is atheism and then you arrive at the
1:01:04 conclusion of nihilism which is what
1:01:06 you're interested in you know yeah john
1:01:08 peterson what was that
1:01:12 that was a loud truck um because john
1:01:15 peterson has made mention of this um
1:01:18 with his commentary about the the path
1:01:20 that the jews took in
1:01:22 previously and when you read the old
1:01:23 testament
1:01:24 he talks about like the the most
1:01:26 critical
1:01:27 of the jews is the old testament
1:01:30 like
1:01:31 and you you see this sort of um
1:01:33 recurring pattern
1:01:34 where they go through a struggle
1:01:37 and they they suffer greatly at the
1:01:39 hands of oppressors and things like that
1:01:41 and um they
1:01:42 they become spiritual
1:01:45 and they turn back to their god they
1:01:47 sent prophets and they they begin to
1:01:48 follow the prophets you know for example
1:01:49 muslim
1:01:51 they have the the whole issue with
1:01:54 and the problems that occur there
1:01:56 and the profit comes they correct
1:01:58 themselves as a people
1:02:00 obviously it's it's a bumpy ride they
1:02:02 still struggle like you've got the the
1:02:03 issue with the calf and things like that
1:02:04 the golden car but they
1:02:07 they
1:02:08 they get themselves back on track that
1:02:09 the people themselves become more
1:02:11 spiritual and as a result of that
1:02:13 they're blessed and they their path
1:02:15 increases and they they end up in a
1:02:18 position of power of high status of
1:02:20 wealth
1:02:21 and you know they're in a good position
1:02:23 but then what happens is they
1:02:25 lose that connection again
1:02:28 and they become lost they become more
1:02:30 worldly dunya focused yeah and they they
1:02:33 lose that spirituality element of their
1:02:36 religion and god has to then send them
1:02:38 another prophet and to remind them
1:02:41 listen
1:02:42 you've gone astray you've been blessed
1:02:45 and you've been given this position of
1:02:47 power and you've become comfortable
1:02:50 and the blessings have become neutral
1:02:52 and it's it's the example i always give
1:02:53 of you know like aftershave you smell
1:02:55 that aftershave on someone and it's ah
1:02:58 that's beautiful i need that ood what is
1:03:01 that tell me what dude you go and you
1:03:02 get it and you put it on and it's like
1:03:04 yeah so aftershave is different to use
1:03:06 by the way brother yeah yeah
1:03:09 i'm joking just between the penis
1:03:11 i mean the smelly's we're calling this
1:03:13 yeah yeah exactly you've got your nice
1:03:15 smellies and for the first couple of
1:03:16 weeks
1:03:17 they smell really good and it's intense
1:03:20 and then you're gonna get used to it
1:03:21 yeah
1:03:22 yeah and yeah and that's it so then
1:03:24 after a certain amount of time it's like
1:03:26 you start thinking is this something in
1:03:27 my aftershave has it gotten old like i
1:03:29 can't see you you over compensate and
1:03:32 you spray more on and then other people
1:03:33 coming like why have you put so much
1:03:34 aftershave on which one you all know i
1:03:36 kind of can't even smell it i smell it
1:03:37 anymore yeah exactly
1:03:39 it becomes neutral becomes normal and so
1:03:41 so you're saying jordan peterson painted
1:03:43 on this
1:03:44 he mentioned in what context in what
1:03:46 context though do you think i can't
1:03:48 remember i can't remember it it was i
1:03:49 think it was talking about sort of um
1:03:52 being critical of the jewish people or
1:03:54 something it might have been
1:03:56 i'm just this was a while ago i heard it
1:03:58 yeah it was probably on a conversation
1:04:00 about anti-semitism or something and
1:04:02 someone was and he
1:04:04 he mentioned
1:04:05 i hope it's him the memory is i might
1:04:08 have a false memory here someone
1:04:10 mentioned it anyway but they said that
1:04:12 um the most critical of the jews was the
1:04:14 old testament yes well it is if you if
1:04:17 you read it it is because they're
1:04:18 repeatedly
1:04:19 punished and because this you know
1:04:22 they're the chosen people
1:04:23 and for
1:04:25 you know
1:04:26 decades and centuries
1:04:31 exactly and
1:04:33 so they're dealt with accordingly every
1:04:34 time that they do that exactly and god
1:04:36 humbles them again and then they they go
1:04:39 back on track and then they go through
1:04:40 this secular motion
1:04:42 of humbling themselves
1:04:45 establishing the connection with allah
1:04:47 and then
1:04:48 you know
1:04:49 when they get into into into into sort
1:04:52 of you
1:04:55 notice their blessings and it becomes
1:04:57 sort of expected by them like this is
1:04:59 this is ours like it's a right for them
1:05:01 to have these rather than something that
1:05:03 they should be grateful for
1:05:05 the the the gratitude dissolves and you
1:05:07 see that even today in modern society
1:05:09 with all the best like bro we're talking
1:05:12 instantly over some magical device
1:05:15 exactly yeah
1:05:17 we were connected wirelessly arthur c
1:05:18 clark you mean off the c clark style
1:05:20 yeah yeah we got a paintless room we
1:05:24 turned on that light switch and bam like
1:05:26 we didn't have to spend hours trying to
1:05:28 get a fire going or out right exactly
1:05:30 yeah yeah delivered
1:05:32 or maybe you did i don't know maybe you
1:05:34 did i don't know i mean yeah i don't
1:05:36 know where you are but again so to go
1:05:38 the reason i brought this up was this is
1:05:40 an example where
1:05:42 somebody who's
1:05:44 obviously well-read well-educated packs
1:05:46 into a couple of sentences
1:05:49 some really deep concepts
1:05:51 yeah that now has just taken us 30
1:05:53 minutes to unpack
1:05:54 and he can't help but do that well this
1:05:56 is important
1:05:58 exactly exactly he's going to flow he's
1:06:00 just like he's having a nice
1:06:02 conversation and he's just engaged with
1:06:04 the person and he's he's got an
1:06:06 understanding of this person's education
1:06:08 level is exactly you know he's getting
1:06:10 the vibe that he this is the kind of way
1:06:13 he can speak to this person and he
1:06:14 should be able to follow it yeah and so
1:06:16 he just says it and like
1:06:18 if you just stop in that and have to in
1:06:21 the conversation
1:06:22 break up every word that he's used and
1:06:25 do what we've just done you wouldn't
1:06:26 have been able to have had the
1:06:27 conversation that they did have yeah and
1:06:29 that would have ruined the flow of the
1:06:31 city exactly
1:06:32 viewers need to be patient when they're
1:06:34 watching these kind of things and
1:06:35 understand that if you want to get this
1:06:37 you're going to have to put the leg work
1:06:38 in you're going to have to pause it
1:06:39 you're going to have to define things
1:06:40 and you know you're going to have to do
1:06:41 a bit of extra work
1:06:44 and that takes effort and energy and it
1:06:46 does
1:06:47 but the the issue though is most of the
1:06:50 audience probably
1:06:52 wouldn't have understood in just by
1:06:55 watching it be able to break it down
1:06:57 themselves but we didn't ever because we
1:06:59 had to pause and talk and discuss no but
1:07:02 yeah but this is i think this is what
1:07:04 the genesis of why muhammad originally
1:07:07 brought up this point right it's because
1:07:08 this is what we're talking about before
1:07:10 is that when you're
1:07:12 trying to convey something to an
1:07:14 audience
1:07:16 many times you may be taking these
1:07:18 concepts and these ideas and all this
1:07:20 background information for granted and
1:07:23 you say something within five minutes it
1:07:25 has
1:07:26 so much other details to it that are not
1:07:29 you know readily available to the you
1:07:32 know the immediate audience
1:07:34 and they don't really get that they
1:07:36 don't really get
1:07:37 the full picture of what you're really
1:07:38 excited
1:07:50 right so it depends on the person and
1:07:52 and the audience that they've developed
1:07:54 over time so he has a somewhat more
1:07:58 uh sophisticated audience we could say
1:08:00 so i'm not saying that nobody understood
1:08:03 that obviously there were certain people
1:08:04 that understood uh brother
1:08:07 hamza just came and you know sort of
1:08:09 broke that down so he understood the
1:08:11 point but i think muhammad's point is
1:08:15 the the greater audience the majority of
1:08:17 the people probably are missing out on a
1:08:21 lot of those points yeah exactly
1:08:27 he probably understood a lot of what he
1:08:29 was saying right but the issue is are
1:08:32 you having the conversation
1:08:35 for just the other person that you're
1:08:37 speaking to right or you're having it
1:08:39 with the audience in mind you see and
1:08:41 it's very hard to balance that because
1:08:44 at the same time you want to in a short
1:08:47 amount of time
1:08:49 pack in and have a as high level of a
1:08:52 discussion as you can with the person
1:08:55 you're speaking to but at the same time
1:08:57 you don't want the audience to be lost
1:08:59 you want them to be
1:09:01 really engaged in the conversation in
1:09:03 the way that the other person that
1:09:05 you're speaking to is
1:09:06 and to try to balance this sort of
1:09:08 balancing act between those two things
1:09:11 is extremely difficult
1:09:13 it is difficult and and you know i mean
1:09:15 just my own personal experience i think
1:09:17 the the it's important then to sort of
1:09:20 first of all be mindful and aware
1:09:23 that this is happening
1:09:26 i think have the conversation that needs
1:09:28 to be had in in the in the moment
1:09:32 and then i think post the conversation
1:09:34 as part of um separate sort of events
1:09:37 just like we've done
1:09:39 just like we've done now
1:09:40 is is really sort of break it down for
1:09:42 the audience knowing that these are
1:09:44 concepts that likely will have been
1:09:46 missed yeah and again you only need to
1:09:47 go through them i think once or twice
1:09:49 and then people have got a reference
1:09:50 point to go back to
1:09:53 um so i think yusuf you know when you
1:09:54 first started you did a really good
1:09:56 breakdown of your thesis that you did
1:09:58 for your degree right yeah
1:10:02 it was ours but the thing is is you've
1:10:04 got now a reference material that
1:10:05 anybody that says okay what is yusuf
1:10:07 talking about
1:10:09 if they want to do the homework they can
1:10:10 go listen to that stuff
1:10:12 right and if they don't then it's
1:10:15 too bad yeah
1:10:17 it's your bad okay look we need to have
1:10:18 an academic conversation here i'm not
1:10:20 going to spend 16 hours explaining
1:10:22 something i've already explained but the
1:10:24 key is
1:10:25 is just being mindful that when you are
1:10:28 talking with some of the especially some
1:10:30 of the more esoteric topics you know
1:10:31 they're really f especially some of the
1:10:33 stuff you talk about jake on on you know
1:10:35 really deep theological discussions
1:10:37 nuances
1:10:39 uh for example the first time you spoke
1:10:40 about divine simplicity right it
1:10:43 completely went over me right
1:10:45 and it wasn't until i listened to it the
1:10:47 second time i sort of
1:10:48 finally understood what the christians
1:10:50 have been going on about with attributes
1:10:53 and
1:10:54 you know and i certainly sort of i had
1:10:56 this sort of aha moment of
1:10:58 okay
1:11:00 so this is why this particular group
1:11:03 really sort of misunderstands the sifat
1:11:05 of allah the the names of allah
1:11:08 attributes because they just have a
1:11:10 completely different conception
1:11:13 of what the divine being is all about
1:11:15 yeah
1:11:16 and that actually took what was it like
1:11:19 a three-hour discussion and and plus
1:11:21 another couple of hours for me to go
1:11:22 listen to it again
1:11:23 i mean five hours of effort just for me
1:11:26 to sort of realize that okay that's the
1:11:28 and that's like one concept
1:11:30 out of like a like and it's not just
1:11:33 it happened to me as well when i first
1:11:35 heard about it i was like
1:11:37 what is it what are they even talking
1:11:38 about i didn't really grasp it at first
1:11:41 it took me i watched several discussions
1:11:44 and debates on it i read
1:11:46 academic sources on the topic yep and um
1:11:49 it's funny you bring that up because i
1:11:51 am gonna actually talk about simplicity
1:11:54 uh as part as part of the course and i
1:11:57 am gonna try to break it down and make
1:11:59 it simple um so hopefully some people
1:12:01 will get it yeah no pun intended
1:12:06 people think about it like divine
1:12:08 simplicity oh what does that mean is it
1:12:10 just god is simple and easy to
1:12:12 understand and it's like no that's not
1:12:14 what it means so um
1:12:17 yeah it's it's definitely a challenge
1:12:20 and um you know the it's as i said
1:12:23 before it's kind of trial and error you
1:12:26 a lot of times when you're speaking um
1:12:29 especially to a diverse audience
1:12:32 some of the other people who are
1:12:34 familiar with the background stuff
1:12:35 they're like
1:12:37 come on man we when we know what divine
1:12:39 simplicity is just use the shorthand
1:12:41 term and then go on to the crux of the
1:12:43 matter we don't need you explain it
1:12:45 every single time and so that's the
1:12:47 issue is that
1:12:49 the more diverse your audience it is
1:12:52 in in a sense it's almost more difficult
1:12:54 to really to convey what you want
1:12:56 because you you're dealing with people
1:12:58 on so many different levels
1:13:00 so
1:13:01 you know i i don't want to complicate it
1:13:03 but you know the other concept that
1:13:04 really sort of
1:13:06 is misunderstood is this whole idea of
1:13:09 uh the model of the soul from the
1:13:11 islamic perspective
1:13:13 yeah
1:13:14 because you know there is this whole
1:13:15 paradigm of western psychology that has
1:13:18 sort of really
1:13:19 become the dominant model of how we
1:13:21 understand the human being existence
1:13:24 uh the nature of man and all the rest of
1:13:26 it
1:13:26 but there's an even deeper longer
1:13:28 history in islam you know and there's an
1:13:31 excellent book i think i think it was by
1:13:32 um
1:13:34 um who was it by um
1:13:37 abdullah rothman
1:13:39 right
1:13:40 he wrote a book called developing a
1:13:41 model the islamic psychology and
1:13:43 psychotherapy and if you go in there he
1:13:45 actually refers back to i think it was
1:13:47 an even time ian model
1:13:49 of the soul and of the nafs and of the
1:13:51 of really sort of psychology
1:13:53 i think
1:13:55 for as muslims
1:13:57 i think we need to appreciate that the
1:13:58 western concept of soul when we talk
1:14:02 about soul and fitra
1:14:04 is actually missing they actually have a
1:14:06 big gap
1:14:07 in in their entire understanding of what
1:14:09 the human being they just have this sort
1:14:11 of dual meaning of this body and soul
1:14:13 okay yes but what does that actually
1:14:14 mean
1:14:15 and everybody assume everybody has to
1:14:17 sort of do duality based conversation
1:14:20 but they know they don't really sort of
1:14:21 double click on what do you mean by soul
1:14:23 and what do we mean by soul and our
1:14:25 definition is actually significantly
1:14:27 different i think a lot of the
1:14:28 misunderstanding happens there because
1:14:30 when we have this idea of
1:14:32 of
1:14:33 um
1:14:35 the resurrection in christianity for
1:14:36 example and they talk about you know
1:14:39 well visit the human
1:14:40 or the god you know who actually died
1:14:42 whatever and they say well it's a soul
1:14:45 but then you i mean they get into the
1:14:46 whole question of person being etc etc
1:14:49 but then in the islamic paradigm it's
1:14:51 even deeper
1:14:53 you're smiling there yeah
1:15:05 great look brothers thank you very much
1:15:06 great conversation um
1:15:08 i'd love to stay on for hours more but
1:15:11 i i i need to get back to uh to actually
1:15:13 my lunch time is over now so
1:15:18 it's like
1:15:21 for jumping on it it was brilliant no
1:15:23 it's brilliant i'm glad i could and i'm
1:15:25 jake welcome um i won't be getting i
1:15:27 won't be able to get down to london but
1:15:29 uh i'm sure um how are you
1:15:31 brother i'm in manchester oh you're a
1:15:33 monk
1:15:36 are you guys let me ask you a question
1:15:38 are you guys naturally clumsy in
1:15:40 manchester
1:15:42 i don't know i don't know i i i maybe
1:15:44 it's just that one individual next to
1:15:45 you i've known this guy has built like
1:15:47 drinks since i've been here it's only
1:15:49 since you've been here
1:15:55 by the presence of an american that's
1:15:57 what it is making me nervous because he
1:15:58 keeps yeah there you go there you go
1:16:00 exactly no yeah yeah so
1:16:03 where are you
1:16:06 are you in monk as well
1:16:07 i'm no no no we're in london at the
1:16:09 moment um
1:16:11 you live up north right yeah i live in
1:16:13 bolton
1:16:14 let's connect yeah and when you get back
1:16:16 up here let's connect because i'm in
1:16:17 manchester um
1:16:31 i spent too much time on it if i'm on it
1:16:33 so
1:16:34 no yeah usually i just ignore it just
1:16:36 ignore it just stay like because all the
1:16:37 numbers are there
1:16:40 all right bros
1:16:46 that was a nice little surprise though
1:16:48 yeah a good contribution yeah he's good
1:16:50 brother marcelo so yeah um
1:16:54 151 of you
1:16:56 i'm guessing there's a portion of you
1:16:57 that have not subscribed so if you're
1:16:58 not please do subscribe now uh click the
1:17:01 notification button
1:17:03 uh jake's
1:17:05 gonna angrily look at the the subscribe
1:17:07 account oh it went up slightly oh we got
1:17:09 we're at 9.78 so it's gonna buy
1:17:12 0.01 yeah so not too far i guess but
1:17:16 yeah inshallah uh we're hoping to get to
1:17:18 10k before the 16th which will be
1:17:21 one day after our one year
1:17:24 uh anniversary of thought adventure um
1:17:26 which would be absolutely awesome let's
1:17:28 see if abdulrahman
1:17:36 uh
1:17:37 maybe he could join in a bit
1:17:40 i think it's been a bit yeah it's been
1:17:42 probably about coming
1:17:43 he said that um
1:17:45 after turns it's been about an hour yeah
1:17:49 and so we'll all collectively shout at
1:17:51 him for not coming to
1:17:56 london you read the comments
1:17:59 yeah you've seen what's going on here
1:18:02 i um
1:18:03 i think
1:18:04 brother carlos attacked me
1:18:07 yeah he asked you where was it
1:18:10 there
1:18:11 okay
1:18:13 have you joined the on clubhouse yet i
1:18:15 have no connection issues there i did
1:18:18 uh but then i uh deactivated
1:18:22 because
1:18:23 it's so much time yeah another
1:18:24 distraction um
1:18:26 i like minimal social media
1:18:29 um so the only ones that i really
1:18:31 use are youtube and twitter but i've
1:18:34 even deactivated my twitter
1:18:36 um so i'm gonna reactivate that in a
1:18:38 little bit but i don't like spreading
1:18:39 myself too thin
1:18:41 but yeah i think you're on everything
1:18:42 aren't you
1:18:43 uh not really i'm on facebook
1:18:46 twitter
1:18:49 youtube
1:18:50 and clubhouse
1:18:52 but i've i've managed to stay off of
1:18:54 tick-tock i know people keep trying to
1:18:56 persuade me no no i'm never going to
1:18:58 tell you i'm not on tick-tock i'm not on
1:19:00 instagram
1:19:02 uh so
1:19:04 i'm not on a few but i'm probably
1:19:12 i want to avoid
1:19:13 extra stuff i've got a lot i need to get
1:19:16 sword
1:19:17 yeah and uh
1:19:19 what else is being said
1:19:21 so that we'll put the link out i don't
1:19:23 know we've been on for an hour and a
1:19:24 half what time did you say was it one
1:19:26 o'clock
1:19:29 we've got a little bit we could chill
1:19:30 for a bit more
1:19:32 somebody said are you going to any
1:19:34 football matches they don't have
1:19:35 football here you guys know that come on
1:19:38 you got some bootleg football over here
1:19:42 all right well
1:19:43 yeah i i would uh go at you for about i
1:19:46 do not like football anyway so
1:19:48 i couldn't care less about the whole
1:19:50 football banter yeah
1:19:56 i wondered why the sun came up
1:20:00 um
1:20:04 um
1:20:05 there's some other conversations about
1:20:06 what's going on there yeah
1:20:08 tick-tock has huge pull
1:20:10 what is that yeah that's what i hear i
1:20:12 mean getting a lot of viewers and stuff
1:20:14 yeah yeah sounds always as advocates for
1:20:17 it yeah but i i just don't like it at
1:20:20 all me
1:20:21 tic toc is like
1:20:23 i had a little look i didn't like it man
1:20:25 i know they do but that we already said
1:20:27 now before that's not uh
1:20:30 equivalent to whether or not something's
1:20:31 right to do or
1:20:33 good to follow but um yeah not for me
1:20:35 it's just like i was on it for a little
1:20:36 bit and it just stroked me as like hyper
1:20:39 degenerate
1:20:40 sounds like
1:20:41 no
1:20:42 and it's really a lot of madness going
1:20:44 on there
1:20:47 no jet lag
1:20:49 no
1:20:50 he's a monster
1:20:52 he's a machine
1:20:55 he looked proper like
1:20:56 bushy tailed as well this morning
1:20:58 wide-eyed yeah like he hadn't been on a
1:21:01 bloody 50-hour flight
1:21:03 uh jake likes american rugby
1:21:07Laughter 1:21:11 no no we're at the sapience office which
1:21:13 is right next door
1:21:15 to the air office
1:21:18 uh
1:21:19 so same same but different
1:21:22 talk has way too much misinformation i
1:21:24 think everything has way too much
1:21:26 misinformation yeah it's constantly
1:21:29 fighting against the wave of
1:21:32 nonsense um aren't you tired after a
1:21:35 long same question no no no he's uh
1:21:39 ready to roll
1:21:40 yeah uh
1:21:42 what's being said
1:21:44 you're both going to speak his corner
1:21:45 yeah insha'allah and hopefully brother
1:21:47 sharif is going to be feeling a little
1:21:48 bit better by then as well
1:21:50 and uh we're going to try to get him up
1:21:51 to join us we were trying to get abdul
1:21:53 rahman to join us too um
1:21:56 but i'm not 100 sure that's going to
1:21:58 happen
1:22:00 which is a shame because it would have
1:22:01 been so nice to have done a nice little
1:22:03 live stream with all four of us in the
1:22:05 same room yeah really cool
1:22:08Music 1:22:10 um
1:22:11 episode suggestion names and attributes
1:22:14 of allah
1:22:15 less philosophical or more laymany
1:22:18 uh like hamza did a seminar once titled
1:22:21 born to worship
1:22:23 i believe it's most powerful for
1:22:25 dawn
1:22:27 dawn darwin
1:22:30 maybe not now
1:22:31 yeah we could do stuff like that there's
1:22:32 um
1:22:35 the thing is is that there are things
1:22:37 like that already available um and we've
1:22:40 we're focusing on a particular sort of
1:22:42 thing
1:22:44 um we don't want to sort of reinvent the
1:22:46 wheel when there's already a lot
1:22:48 of material like you probably want to
1:22:49 get that type of thing from shares or
1:22:52 you know
1:22:54 if you google it you're going to come
1:22:55 across that kind of stuff
1:22:57 um and we don't want to spread ourselves
1:22:59 thin trying to just do everything
1:23:01 we've got a certain thing that we aim at
1:23:04 um although it would be beneficial it's
1:23:07 going to be much more beneficial if it
1:23:08 comes from someone who's
1:23:10 you know that's their niche we'll say um
1:23:13 i don't know what you think
1:23:14 yeah but yeah there's like i say lots of
1:23:17 stuff just search for some ulama they've
1:23:19 um they've done courses on that so
1:23:22 i'm sure you'll find benefit in that um
1:23:24 are you finding the uk to be jake it's a
1:23:27 good superior yeah
1:23:30 what do you mean
1:23:33 i don't know man we'll see i gotta spend
1:23:35 more time well
1:23:37 he sounded a bit nervous when he said
1:23:38 something no well yeah well
1:23:41 we'll see we'll see how he likes it
1:23:43 we're gonna show him around london we've
1:23:45 got a beautiful view of the
1:23:47 industrial estate across the road yeah
1:23:49 from my window yeah
1:23:51 they put him on the first on the ground
1:23:53 floor
1:23:55 yeah and the elevator is working now
1:23:57 and then he got the ground floor i'm on
1:23:59 the fifth floor and the elevator wasn't
1:24:00 working and i had to
1:24:03 carry all of my bags up to the top was
1:24:05 that
1:24:07 i got in on the wrong side of the car
1:24:09 when i first got here oh yeah that was
1:24:10 fun that was bad because he's american
1:24:13 and they drive on the other side of the
1:24:14 road fun fact do you know why
1:24:17 we drive on the
1:24:19 the left side of the road
1:24:22 apparently
1:24:23 this might be complete misinformation
1:24:26 but apparently it's because uh we
1:24:29 when we used to ride horses
1:24:30 you would have to if you were going down
1:24:32 the road and you needed to fight
1:24:35 your sword hand or your jousting hand
1:24:36 was your right hand so you needed to be
1:24:39 on the left side so that you could
1:24:40 attack the person
1:24:42 on the other side of the road
1:24:44 and then you guys just like to do things
1:24:46 backwards
1:24:47 so you thought let's do it the other way
1:24:49 because we hate the uk we were yours
1:24:52 that's right your colonial masters
1:24:54 that's right so they were like screw
1:24:56 these guys
1:24:57 we're gonna do things how they don't do
1:24:59 it
1:25:00 um
1:25:02 let us know if when yeah yeah hopefully
1:25:04 in shallow we're gonna go on the 16th
1:25:05 yeah next sunday guys
1:25:07 uh tick tock is pure garbage
1:25:10 bra brap
1:25:11 i agree well done give that man a badge
1:25:14 uh yeah i hear you on social media thing
1:25:17 i avoid most platforms even facebook
1:25:19 yeah i've deleted my facebook um
1:25:22 yeah well that's the thing i'm i have an
1:25:25 addictive personality
1:25:26 so when i go on to certain things
1:25:28 especially with social media i spend way
1:25:30 too much time on it and um
1:25:32 so i need to sort of minimize
1:25:35 my triggers
1:25:36 and just avoid extra things to spend
1:25:39 more time on
1:25:41 uh
1:25:42 it just
1:25:44 bless him as well yeah he likes tic tac
1:25:46 as well yeah
1:25:48 well that's it
1:25:49 oh the brothers that do engage in it
1:25:51 i'll make them successful in it but i'm
1:25:52 i'm avoiding that like the plague
1:25:55 uh favorite metal bands
1:25:58 i don't i never listened to men
1:26:00 are you used to way back in the day ever
1:26:03 and uh i don't even wanna i was a rapper
1:26:05 i was never into metal oh yeah yeah yeah
1:26:07 yeah you're gonna spit some bars there
1:26:09 we go
1:26:10 special moment no straight in the uk
1:26:12 he's gonna get something
1:26:14 get straight into the grime we'll say
1:26:16 some poetry oh if you want we could just
1:26:17 sing the some viking poetry together
1:26:21 i don't know if i can vote
1:26:23 i'll teach you something
1:26:24 we'll roam around
1:26:26 yeah
1:26:27 saying it but it's pretty cool um
1:26:29 where can we follow your
1:26:31 uh
1:26:32 social media twitter your best place is
1:26:34 twitter the most at the muslim metaphys
1:26:37 if you just search the muslim meta
1:26:38 physician he's going to pop up yeah um
1:26:40 although that is an extremely difficult
1:26:42 word to spell for a lot of people
1:26:44 yeah i know
1:26:46 we you've probably worked on changing at
1:26:48 some point uh the muslim meta p
1:26:52 meta p is nice and
1:26:54 muslim the meta muslim
1:26:58 there we go that's a good one
1:27:00 suggestions in the chat guys
1:27:02 for a new name for the muslim
1:27:04 metaphysician that's easier to spell
1:27:07 yeah if you just type in i believe it's
1:27:09 at m
1:27:11 metaphysician actually that'd be that's
1:27:12 that's not good
1:27:14 the mata muslim yeah because meta means
1:27:16 after no does it not before before yeah
1:27:24 but but it doesn't mean in the sense of
1:27:26 like
1:27:27 it means it more in terms of
1:27:28 foundationally doesn't it it doesn't
1:27:30 mean yeah no but in colloquial greek
1:27:33 means after
1:27:36 yeah it means after yeah it means after
1:27:37 not before it's after
1:27:39 all right so
1:27:40 yeah so metaphysics was after his book
1:27:44 physics yeah because it was he literally
1:27:46 wrote that after he wrote the book on
1:27:47 physics
1:27:49 but the funny thing is metaphysics now
1:27:51 means something completely yeah
1:27:52 foundational
1:27:53 yeah now
1:27:58 okay so putting him off the muslim with
1:28:01 it
1:28:03 the logical concerning
1:28:05 yeah
1:28:06 okay okay so
1:28:07 yeah because the where they got the name
1:28:10 metaphysics was actually somebody who
1:28:12 compiled aristotle's works
1:28:15 in the the compilation that he put it in
1:28:19 obviously aristotle has a work called
1:28:21 the physics and then he had a different
1:28:23 section of writings
1:28:25 and
1:28:26 that literally in terms of chronological
1:28:28 order in the book came after his work on
1:28:32 the physics
1:28:33 and so people then just it just got that
1:28:35 title
1:28:36 being called metaphysics because it
1:28:38 literally came
1:28:40 after the work physics in that um
1:28:42 compilation that this uh i forget the
1:28:45 guy's name actually that compiled
1:28:47 aristotle's works so it wasn't even from
1:28:49 aristotle didn't even name it it's funny
1:28:51 how it changed as well and then yeah
1:28:53 yeah and then then basically what
1:28:55 happened was
1:28:56 subject matter that was related to that
1:29:00 just then all of a sudden got called
1:29:02 metaphysics yeah but really the name had
1:29:04 nothing to do with the original content
1:29:07 you know
1:29:08 yeah i mean it's funny i i've had
1:29:10 conversations with people who didn't
1:29:12 know that like i had especially atheists
1:29:15 i had this guy on clubhouse tell me
1:29:18 um metaphysics what did he say was like
1:29:21 um
1:29:22 uh
1:29:24 trying to remember exactly what he said
1:29:26 it was um
1:29:28 i don't know it'll come to me okay that
1:29:31 comment gave me a headache just reading
1:29:32 it let alone oh yeah i might even pull
1:29:35 it up
1:29:38 jake will you be meeting up with the
1:29:40 rest of the brothers muhammad it's hamza
1:29:42 support hamza's over there hamza has
1:29:45 been in the video
1:29:47 i think he's just come in um yeah
1:29:48 inshallah mohammed hitchhiker
1:29:50 should be coming uh so boy is he feeling
1:29:53 any better
1:29:54 i think he's yeah i got in touch with
1:29:56 him he's being a bit better but i it
1:29:57 smashed him up yeah he told me he was
1:30:00 asking him a call yeah in the process of
1:30:02 the healing
1:30:04 but he's negative now alhamdulillah oh
1:30:07 yeah so
1:30:07 we're here for two weeks anyway
1:30:10 um yeah we should be okay now i remember
1:30:12 yeah the guy said that uh metaphysics is
1:30:16 a meta analysis of physics this is the
1:30:18 guy told me i'm like bro it has nothing
1:30:21 to do with that
1:30:23 where did you get it from you know you
1:30:24 just make stuff up
1:30:26 just had to explain it to him
1:30:28 how do you join sapiens
1:30:30 you go
1:30:31 followers on social media how do you
1:30:34 join what do you mean how do you join
1:30:35 i'm guessing
1:30:37 subscribe to the channel yeah go to the
1:30:39 dance around with fire yeah you've got
1:30:42 to do so we want to be initiated yes
1:30:45 there's we we take you to we can do a
1:30:47 blindfold tell them on the internet
1:30:49 that's the secret no no
1:30:52 the secret is how we get there but what
1:30:54 we do we blindfold you we take you to a
1:30:56 room that's in an undisclosed location
1:30:59 and then you've got to like run this
1:31:00 course that's filled you gotta like jump
1:31:03 through flaming hoops
1:31:04 like dive over like bottomless pits
1:31:08 fight snakes and wolves
1:31:10 you know all that kind of stuff and if
1:31:11 if you get to the end we'll just walk
1:31:13 down the high street in bolton i just
1:31:17 i just walked down the high street in
1:31:19 bolton he said
1:31:20Music 1:31:21 and then if you manage to survive either
1:31:24 that treacherous course
1:31:26 uh or the uh the walk down bolton um
1:31:30 then you you become initiated to the the
1:31:32 sapience gank
1:31:34 well hijab will be waiting at the end
1:31:36 yeah yeah yeah oh yeah and he's got his
1:31:38 boxing clothes on so you're gonna have
1:31:39 like a
1:31:40 survive five rounds with him in a in a
1:31:43 boxing ring
1:31:44 so inshallah but alternatively you could
1:31:46 just subscribe to the channel um
1:31:48 sapiens institute and you can follow us
1:31:50 on social media uh which we just
1:31:52 searched safety institute in any of them
1:31:53 it should pop up let them know about
1:31:55 lighthouse bro and they'll feel like we
1:31:56 don't uh no i don't answer enough i do
1:31:59 always mention it pretty much i just
1:32:00 haven't at the moment but yeah
1:32:02 lighthouse project so um the lighthouse
1:32:04 project is something we're doing
1:32:06 and there's someone that has is
1:32:08 suffering from doubts or is interested
1:32:09 in islam it's a free service so if you
1:32:11 go to sapiens institute.org forward
1:32:13 slash lighthouse you can book a
1:32:16 one-to-one meeting that's private it's
1:32:18 also for
1:32:19 mentoring future leaders yeah activists
1:32:22 so if you if you're looking at getting
1:32:23 into
1:32:24 um being you know a leader or a activist
1:32:28 or some
1:32:29 type within the muslim community we can
1:32:31 help mentor you on that and give you
1:32:33 advice and tips and work through things
1:32:35 with you
1:32:36 so we've had chiefs use the service um
1:32:40 we've had you know people that just want
1:32:41 to do dawah we've had people that have
1:32:43 been suffering from doubts ex-muslims
1:32:46 non-muslims
1:32:47 um
1:32:48 it's just
1:32:49 you know an opportunity for you to have
1:32:51 a nice one-to-one conversation with one
1:32:52 of the mentors brother jake's one of the
1:32:54 mentors i'm one of the mentors hans is
1:32:56 one of the mentors and we've also got
1:32:58 brother fahad taslim uh dr uthman
1:33:02 abdul rahman is a mentor as well
1:33:04 and
1:33:05 we've got another brother called malik
1:33:07 uh who's just joined recently
1:33:09 and
1:33:11 i think that yeah that's every one of us
1:33:13 imran hussein was um he's had to take a
1:33:15 little break so he's
1:33:16 he's not at the moment but he's in
1:33:17 shuttle at some point in the future
1:33:18 gonna jump on as well so you can have a
1:33:20 little nice one-hour conversations with
1:33:22 us and it's a service you can use
1:33:24 like as often as you need it
1:33:26 um but if you do book just book once pet
1:33:28 peeve
1:33:29 turn up if you do book
1:33:31 um because it's rather annoying when you
1:33:33 book an appointment and don't show up
1:33:35 obviously if you've got legitimate
1:33:36 reasons then
1:33:38 we can't complain about that but
1:33:40 some people just like when if you book
1:33:42 an appointment little tips set an
1:33:44 appointment in your calendar on your
1:33:46 phone set reminders the day before an
1:33:48 hour before
1:33:49 and keep an eye on your junk mail in
1:33:51 case we our emails are getting sent to
1:33:52 your drink mail add the the lighthouse
1:33:55 email to your contacts list it's at
1:33:57 lighthouse
1:33:58 sapience institute.org if you add it to
1:34:00 your contacts list then in short like it
1:34:02 doesn't get thrown into the junk mail
1:34:04 um so just take these little steps and
1:34:06 um you know
1:34:07 keep an eye on the the email inbox et
1:34:10 cetera um
1:34:11 um
1:34:12 you know
1:34:13 show up to the meeting and show because
1:34:14 there's a lot of time being invested in
1:34:16 this and if you're not showing up to the
1:34:17 meeting that meeting goes to waste and
1:34:19 it could have been used by someone who
1:34:20 needed it um but if you're holding up
1:34:23 that slot no one else can book on it
1:34:26 so you've got to keep that in mind as
1:34:27 well but yeah it's a free service um so
1:34:29 you're welcome to use that as well
1:34:30 uh sapiens institute.org forward slash
1:34:33 lights house and if you don't need it
1:34:35 yourself but you know someone who does
1:34:36 need it forward it to them uh there is
1:34:39 one condition though unfortunately due
1:34:40 to legal reasons we can only deal with
1:34:42 people the age of 18 or over so if
1:34:46 you're under the age of 18 unfortunately
1:34:48 at the moment this we can't really
1:34:50 hold these one-to-one mentoring sessions
1:34:51 with you
1:34:52 for safeguarding reasons um
1:34:55 they are out of our control
1:34:57 uh so obviously it's a bit heartbreaking
1:35:00 but we do apologize about that um but we
1:35:02 can mentor members of your family to
1:35:05 help you have that conversation with you
1:35:07 so for example if you've got certain
1:35:08 questions and you know you can't have
1:35:10 the meeting yourself because you're
1:35:11 under the age of 18 you can get a
1:35:13 brother or an uncle or
1:35:15 your mother or your father or someone to
1:35:17 have the meeting with us and we can help
1:35:18 equip them to have that conversation
1:35:20 with you
1:35:21 inshallah which is a good alternative so
1:35:23 keep that in mind too um and just pass
1:35:25 the link to people you think need it um
1:35:27 or if there's someone you know that's
1:35:28 interested in islam and they want to ask
1:35:30 questions
1:35:31 um you know we can engage in some dao
1:35:33 with them and have a conversation and
1:35:35 talk them through
1:35:36 um but you know the answers to their
1:35:38 questions etc so keep that in mind check
1:35:41 that out uh also just keep an eye on the
1:35:42 website because we do publish a lot on
1:35:44 there so there's a lot of articles being
1:35:45 put in um on the website and we're gonna
1:35:48 be releasing when is the learning
1:35:50 platform coming out
1:35:51 hopefully this week uh
1:35:53 so the learning platform inshallah is
1:35:55 going to be done this week apparently i
1:35:57 thought it was
1:35:58 in a few months or something but there's
1:36:00 a lot sooner
1:36:01 than i thought so there's going to be a
1:36:02 whole new learning platform on there
1:36:04 come talk about it
1:36:05 mention it they've got 166 people
1:36:08 you can talk to about the learning
1:36:10 platform
1:36:11 you don't look like you want it no no
1:36:13 yeah i mean i mean you could do it i
1:36:15 don't know
1:36:16 you're the big man yeah
1:36:18 yeah you're the boss
1:36:20 you're my boss oh you're my boss
1:36:22 so
1:36:26 brothers and sisters so we have a
1:36:28 learning platform that's coming out
1:36:30 and it's going to be available on the
1:36:31 website inshallah within the next week
1:36:33 and we are launching with three courses
1:36:35 one course is called awakening the truth
1:36:37 within which is an advanced our training
1:36:39 course which is a methodological course
1:36:43 and we have another version of that
1:36:44 course in spanish
1:36:46 on the site and we have
1:36:48 our landmark course called no doubt 10
1:36:50 effective strategies
1:36:51 10 effective strategies on how to do
1:36:53 with your and other people's doubts it's
1:36:55 going to be launched with those three
1:36:56 then the following week we're going to
1:36:58 have a course hopefully called the rules
1:37:00 of engagement by dr suffolk chowdhury
1:37:02 which is on monado uh debates
1:37:05 discussions from the quran perspective
1:37:07 logical fallacies logical arguments so
1:37:09 on and so forth
1:37:11 then we're going to have
1:37:14 loads of different courses coming out so
1:37:15 we've got around and we've got a course
1:37:17 on the called on being human which is
1:37:19 based on doctors manatees book on
1:37:21 othering and otherization
1:37:23 and empathy from a prophetic and quranic
1:37:25 point of view
1:37:26 we also have a course called divine
1:37:28 perfection which is on the kind of
1:37:29 maximal perfection and love of the
1:37:31 divine in islam and christianity which
1:37:34 is based on his book that's coming out
1:37:35 this month in sha allah it's actually
1:37:37 getting typesetted and edited as we
1:37:39 speak hopefully
1:37:40 and we also have a course two courses
1:37:43 from jake that's why he's here he's
1:37:44 blessed us with his presence
1:37:45 alhamdulillah
1:37:47 two in-depth courses on
1:37:49 it's atonement right uh now trinity and
1:37:51 incarnation yes trinity and incarnation
1:37:54 we have an in-depth course by our
1:37:56 beloved
1:37:57 boltonian whatever you call them in i've
1:37:59 been there like a yeah
1:38:03 um yeah so of course on nihilism
1:38:06 we have hopefully the course called the
1:38:08 divine reality and atheism coming out
1:38:11 we have uh
1:38:13 a course on the legacy of islam from his
1:38:16 historical point of view by non-rasheed
1:38:19 we have a course on liberalism we have
1:38:21 advanced our training course in arabic
1:38:24 and i think much more
1:38:25 oh and we have a course as well on
1:38:28 the quran and the secular mind
1:38:30 so if you
1:38:32 um
1:38:33 if you if like if
1:38:35 an atheist or a secular is reading the
1:38:37 quran
1:38:38 each verse where they hesitate or they
1:38:40 think this doesn't make sense whatever
1:38:42 the case may be there's going to be a
1:38:44 course on that and that's based on
1:38:47 the oxford faculty academic doctor
1:38:49 shabir akhtar and he's actually
1:38:52 delivering it for us
1:38:54 that's great that's the first time i've
1:38:56 actually announced it to be honest oh
1:38:57 wow yeah some exclusive on thought
1:38:59 adventure
1:39:00 absolutely and make dua for him because
1:39:02 you know he he was unwell uh
1:39:05 he's he's recovering but he was unwell
1:39:07 he was in a coma i think for about three
1:39:09 months oh because i'm covered yeah
1:39:16 for him and his family that you know
1:39:17 allah preserves him because he is uh
1:39:20 he's one of the most bravest academics
1:39:22 that we have in the west i think and he
1:39:24 is not really well known he knows he's
1:39:26 known for his books but when the whole
1:39:28 salman rushdie affair happened
1:39:30 he basically took on his shoulders and
1:39:31 remember we had dinner recently me sabor
1:39:34 sake of ali we had dinner with him in
1:39:36 oxford
1:39:37 and he made a really really beautiful
1:39:39 point says what's point of being
1:39:40 intellectual when you're when you're a
1:39:41 coward
1:39:42 and that's the way he is through it i
1:39:44 was like well
1:39:45 you know he's written the book the quran
1:39:47 of the second mind he's written
1:39:49 um different papers for other institutes
1:39:50 as well like japan institute and
1:39:53 renovation
1:39:54 he's done um he wrote the book be
1:39:56 careful of muhammad sallallahu alaihi
1:39:58 wasallam which really defends the
1:40:00 islamic position on
1:40:02 denigrating the prophet sallallahu
1:40:03 alaihi wasallam so and and and other
1:40:06 bits and pieces he's he's also done
1:40:08 because he knows greek as well so he's
1:40:10 he's translated the
1:40:11 the the
1:40:13 he's translated the bible
1:40:16 and he's done an analysis this is part
1:40:18 of rootledge and he's assessed
1:40:20 uh galatians i believe
1:40:22 and he's it's poor isn't it yeah yeah
1:40:24 and he's assessed it and he's got his
1:40:27 part one has come out and part two and
1:40:29 three is going to come out too and
1:40:30 that's with an academic president called
1:40:32 rootledge i believe if i if yeah and you
1:40:34 could check on his website that you
1:40:36 could google his name dr shapiro akhtar
1:40:39 um but yeah so he's he's a great mind
1:40:41 he's like a proper academic he
1:40:43 supervises phds as well and stuff i
1:40:45 think so yeah make lots of difference
1:40:47 that's exciting stuff so yeah that's
1:40:48 coming out um and it's going to be free
1:40:51 for everyone alhamdulillah yeah so
1:40:53 that's what we're going to do is uh the
1:40:54 reason we raise funds in ramadan mostly
1:40:57 in ramadan we don't really ask outside
1:40:59 of ramadan much
1:41:00 um is because we want to provide all of
1:41:02 these free services for you and the
1:41:03 online different languages as well and
1:41:05 uh yeah make door for us and make dough
1:41:07 for the brothers who are here for the
1:41:09 next two weeks
1:41:10 you know struggling and you know not
1:41:13 just for dust in their face but
1:41:15 uh you know not many dua to be
1:41:18 would actually even
1:41:21 accept such uh conditions yeah so that's
1:41:24 what i have to say i don't want to say
1:41:25 too much and you know just made a lot of
1:41:27 for them and their family yeah because
1:41:29 they're away from their family and they
1:41:31 are the true heroes it's easy to write
1:41:32 emails and
1:41:34 and and arrange stuff but the heroes are
1:41:36 doing the work in the front line so man
1:41:38 i bless every single one of you and you
1:41:39 guys are here
1:41:42Music 1:41:43 so yeah lots of exciting things going on
1:41:46 uh so you know follow us on all of the
1:41:48 social media thought adventure podcast
1:41:49 sapiens institute uh jake's got his own
1:41:52 channel as well the the muslim
1:41:54 metaphysician
1:41:55 uh if you start typing the muslim meta
1:41:58 ph it should pop up
1:42:00 and uh yeah and you can find him on
1:42:02 twitter facebook clubhouse yeah youtube
1:42:06 uh you can find me on youtube
1:42:09 and when i reactivate my twitter and
1:42:10 twitter sometimes yeah sometimes when
1:42:12 i've not deactivated it um but yeah so
1:42:15 just make sure you're following us on
1:42:16 all of that um keep your eye out on
1:42:19 the thought adventure podcast because
1:42:20 insha'allah we're hoping to be by
1:42:23 the 16th on 10k so we can do a 10k
1:42:26 special inshallah and
1:42:29 hopefully insha'allah have brother
1:42:30 sharif up here with us
1:42:32 and we might just keep telling
1:42:34 abdulrahman off
1:42:35 until we can convince him between now
1:42:37 and then to come
1:42:38 if it's possible insha'allah be great to
1:42:40 have him there as well and have the four
1:42:42 of us in
1:42:43 uh the president the presence of each
1:42:45 other because we're
1:42:46 scattered at different parts of the
1:42:47 globe
1:42:48 um so we've never actually met in person
1:42:50 before today or before yesterday when he
1:42:52 got here last night i'm gonna
1:42:54 um but yeah uh
1:42:57 so i think probably a good place to
1:42:59 leave yeah
1:43:01 um we'll call i don't know what we'll do
1:43:03 now maybe
1:43:04 get a drink somewhere but other than
1:43:06 that guys thank you for joining us it's
1:43:08 been nearly 200 make sure you guys
1:43:09 subscribe
1:43:11 make sure you guys share this video and
1:43:13 our channel
1:43:15 go and tell them tell them
1:43:16 yes make sure you make sure you share
1:43:19 the channel guys we want to get to 10k
1:43:21 we only got like what 300 more
1:43:24 yeah less than 300 220 yeah 220 come on
1:43:29 remember let's get it done
1:43:33 okay i'm getting
1:43:34 an angry text message
1:43:36 other
1:43:46Music 1:43:51 uh are um