Linda Sarsour, Omar Suleiman & American Muslim Activism - Ali Dawah & Dilly Hussain (MH Podcast #9) (2020-09-26) #

0:00:00 [Music]
0:00:05 is the hijab 10
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0:00:16 and welcome to the mh podcast this is
0:00:19 the 10th episode and i'm joined with two
0:00:21 very very special guests
0:00:23 to the far right we have deli hussein
0:00:26 the chief
0:00:27 the vice president or is it the chief
0:00:29 editor
0:00:30 there's some big titles deputy editor
0:00:32 deputy editor of five pillars
0:00:34 and in the middle is the one and only
0:00:36 [Laughter]
0:00:39 the youth dower king
0:00:42 he's standing behind the camera
0:00:49 how are you awesome absolutely really
0:00:51 happy okay
0:00:52 i think i think it's our first video in
0:00:55 maybe
0:00:56 maybe a year really yeah i think we do a
0:00:58 lot of videos
0:00:59 i'm sure don't talk over me when i'm
0:01:00 speaking
0:01:04 yeah that's good i'm really i'm actually
0:01:06 really happy to be because i haven't
0:01:07 seen the last time i saw it i was it's
0:01:08 been a while
0:01:09 i dropped the customer yeah and then
0:01:22 but we are going to be speaking about
0:01:23 politics and we are going to be speaking
0:01:24 about the political spectrum we are
0:01:26 indeed so let's
0:01:27 dive straight into the discussion really
0:01:29 and um
0:01:31 obviously there's a lot of controversy
0:01:32 in muslim tower circles now
0:01:34 um particularly because of this this
0:01:37 question of activism
0:01:38 yeah and i think it's fair to say that
0:01:41 in muslim circles
0:01:42 uh the uk approach is a little bit
0:01:44 different to the u.s approach
0:01:46 can you outline what you see as the main
0:01:49 differences between the two
0:01:52 bismuth
0:01:55 basically this is such a vast topic
0:01:58 right but it goes without say
0:01:59 an older art and islamic activists who
0:02:02 have been in the scene
0:02:02 since the 90s even 80s know that the uk
0:02:06 is the hub of islamic activism in dao so
0:02:09 you're not are you going to go into
0:02:10 patriotism no no it's not
0:02:12 the the the least we want is going to be
0:02:14 over over
0:02:15 yeah but the point here is the uk has
0:02:17 always been the hub and the central
0:02:19 point of various islamic movements and
0:02:20 groups
0:02:22 and there's various reasons as to why
0:02:24 the activism and the darwin by the way
0:02:25 the reason why i used
0:02:27 two together because i don't i think in
0:02:29 from an islamic standpoint these two are
0:02:31 interchangeable
0:02:32 that was activism that muslims dao i
0:02:33 think they're intertwined and the reason
0:02:36 why that is is because the community the
0:02:38 muslim communities in the uk
0:02:40 are more established they've been here
0:02:42 much longer
0:02:43 and their relationship with the
0:02:44 establishment is
0:02:47 more well thought out you understand
0:02:49 whereas in the u.s and north america
0:02:50 broadly speaking it's a newer diaspora
0:02:52 community with exception to the
0:02:53 african-american muslims who were the
0:02:55 first muslims
0:02:56 from the times of slavery and in the
0:02:58 last 10 15 20 years
0:03:00 there's been various challenges various
0:03:02 whilst we've got wars oppression and
0:03:04 occupation the muslim world in the west
0:03:05 we've got things like
0:03:06 uh country extremism violence laws cve
0:03:09 laws
0:03:10 islamophobia a massive well-funded
0:03:13 reformist agenda to change aspects of
0:03:14 normative islam
0:03:16 and a huge push to normalize pro lgbt
0:03:18 values and lifestyles within the muslim
0:03:20 communities
0:03:21 right and here you find of late at least
0:03:23 that there is a
0:03:24 distinct difference between how muslim
0:03:27 to art and activism groups in the uk
0:03:29 have dealt with these challenges
0:03:31 and how it's been dealt with in north
0:03:33 america muslims
0:03:34 i mean uk awesome yeah you get data all
0:03:37 right so because you're going to say
0:03:38 they're muslim and these ones are no no
0:03:39 no no no no no
0:03:40 no things haven't got that bad yet
0:03:43 they haven't got that bad yet right but
0:03:44 just to just wrap up on this point here
0:03:47 is that the challenges are pretty much
0:03:49 the same they might be at different
0:03:50 levels and whilst we're not we're not
0:03:52 making sweeping generalizations there's
0:03:54 glaringly obvious trends in which the
0:03:56 way the brits
0:03:57 have dealt with these similar issues and
0:03:59 the way the americans have and we can
0:04:01 touch upon this later on each other
0:04:02 before we do that
0:04:03 um speaking to really you can call
0:04:04 yourself an activist uh
0:04:06 after the kind of work you've done with
0:04:07 the far right especially in the day of
0:04:10 freedom or much of freedom
0:04:11 uh did you remember that day yeah yeah
0:04:13 we saw how you got punched
0:04:17 it's like a little boy
0:04:20 you know while i was chasing the other
0:04:22 side
0:04:23 for my life while he was using pictures
0:04:26 of police surrounding you in your
0:04:28 whatsapp profile
0:04:31 but you remember the time when you ran
0:04:32 away
0:04:34 [Laughter]
0:04:36 when i was dealing with all the big boys
0:04:39 that's what trained my legs
0:04:43 so so what what some of the challenges
0:04:45 you've you've dealt with
0:04:46 yeah in uk activision yeah so well with
0:04:49 me it's obviously it's been like the
0:04:50 absolute far right uh and also like
0:04:53 non-muslims like imagine there was as
0:04:54 well
0:04:54 um which i've called in you know let's
0:04:57 need to make that clear
0:04:58 um and yeah i did you know you know i i
0:05:00 personally i don't i didn't believe that
0:05:02 i was the right person to do it but i
0:05:03 saw
0:05:04 no one else doing it yeah and i felt
0:05:06 very like i was i was looking and seeing
0:05:08 like the
0:05:08 britain first picking on muslims who are
0:05:10 walking like miss king
0:05:12 they don't know much and being picked on
0:05:13 and bullied and you seeing tommy
0:05:14 robinson insulting the prophet over and
0:05:16 over again
0:05:17 it just really like infuriated me you
0:05:19 know and that's why i know like i think
0:05:21 if i'm thinking like you had some
0:05:22 criticism
0:05:24 of me doing that bit like i was it was
0:05:25 coming from a good place do you know
0:05:26 what i'm trying to say
0:05:27 it probably feedback exactly so with me
0:05:29 it was like i explained i said brother
0:05:30 be like this is how i feel you know
0:05:32 when i'm seeing this happen in front of
0:05:33 my eyes and not many people are doing
0:05:35 anything i'm not saying
0:05:36 this people more qualified to doing but
0:05:38 me i'm a more hands-on guy
0:05:39 yeah like i'm just like that you get i'm
0:05:41 just like i don't care and it's six
0:05:42 months i was tracking tommy robinson and
0:05:43 i was i was
0:05:44 tracking where his flights are coming i
0:05:45 was in luton airport waiting for him
0:05:46 once and he
0:05:47 ended up going to i think stanford or
0:05:49 something so i wanted them to feel
0:05:51 the fee in their heart i wanted them to
0:05:54 know
0:05:54 that like we're on their case you know
0:05:56 and i dealt with them and you know like
0:05:57 there's lessons that i've learned
0:05:59 through it alhamdulillah but
0:06:00 all in all inshallah it's it's it
0:06:02 broadened the spectrum in the context of
0:06:04 there was a lot of people the far right
0:06:05 will come and be like okay you know what
0:06:06 you change your mind about this or et
0:06:08 cetera you know so it was good
0:06:10 but yeah like you know i did and and i
0:06:12 do like i don't have absolute regrets
0:06:14 but there's things i could have done
0:06:15 better things i could have learned
0:06:16 but all they know in charlotte it was a
0:06:18 benefit and we'll accept it i mean i
0:06:20 think it's important to also add that
0:06:21 you know activism is such a broad
0:06:22 spectrum there's so many things people
0:06:24 think it's just
0:06:24 a protest it's not it's confronting
0:06:27 islamophobes and anti-muslim bigots
0:06:29 it's lobbying whether it's mps or think
0:06:31 tanks it's dealing with
0:06:33 even the opponents of islam and muslims
0:06:35 on the grassroots level to those and the
0:06:37 echelons of power
0:06:38 remember you you remember you said to me
0:06:40 henry jackson's no one douglas is no one
0:06:42 and i said by hijab
0:06:43 their followers and their views might
0:06:44 not be many but they're the ones that
0:06:45 gain the laws through government
0:06:47 so muslims in different aspects of their
0:06:49 professions they are dealing and doing
0:06:51 activism whether normally are unknown
0:06:52 with different
0:06:53 parts of our many challenges yeah it's
0:06:56 not just protests there's so many things
0:06:58 there's lobbying there's
0:06:59 court cases what the our enemies now
0:07:02 call law fed the muslims are now engaged
0:07:04 in law fair
0:07:05 right so activism is such a broad
0:07:06 spectrum and everyone's got a part to
0:07:08 play in it
0:07:09 you guys have a huge role to play in the
0:07:10 realm of youtube and online
0:07:12 no one you're right no one else is
0:07:13 really doing it if there wasn't a hijab
0:07:15 and ali although
0:07:16 i've never said this on camera before
0:07:18 but if you two and others weren't there
0:07:20 who would keep the likes of you know i
0:07:22 don't wanna miss
0:07:23 in check we're not and how are you guys
0:07:25 gonna keep the likes of douglas murray
0:07:27 and the institute of strategic dialogue
0:07:28 and
0:07:29 these kind of people in check so we need
0:07:30 everyone in every level to be dealing
0:07:32 with this
0:07:33 i do feel like you know there are some
0:07:35 people who have never responded to me
0:07:36 like i
0:07:37 i've done a video on ben shapiro for
0:07:39 example
0:07:40 but i know that they're acutely aware of
0:07:42 those videos and i know many of them
0:07:44 are not speaking about islam because
0:07:45 they know that it would be
0:07:47 um a perfect opportunity for people like
0:07:50 me to just be on their case
0:07:52 and it's the same thing with you ellie i
0:07:54 know that there are many people that
0:07:55 would be coming out of the woodworks now
0:07:57 if we didn't
0:07:58 use what you could call a
0:08:00 confrontational approach
0:08:01 but talking about different approaches i
0:08:03 think
0:08:04 the confrontational approach is
0:08:06 something we have used and we feel like
0:08:09 it's been successful i want to mention
0:08:11 one
0:08:12 thing that on a lawler on legislation
0:08:14 level
0:08:15 that was quite big in the news which is
0:08:16 last year 2019
0:08:18 with the rse bill yes and the protests
0:08:21 that were taking place in in birmingham
0:08:24 mainland elsewhere in the north of
0:08:25 middle east yeah
0:08:27 how would you gauge the success of these
0:08:30 muslim protests
0:08:31 outside of schools to try and stop um
0:08:33 sex education and or
0:08:35 lgbt learning going on which halted
0:08:39 uh learning of all these lessons in
0:08:42 particular for a very long time and
0:08:44 prompted a national conversation which
0:08:46 you were actually part of were you yeah
0:08:47 i was i was indeed um
0:08:50 it was yesterday yeah so so the
0:08:52 relationship education bill was passed
0:08:54 last march
0:08:55 and it came into effect this month so
0:08:57 that means in
0:08:58 in primary and secondary schools in
0:09:00 england um it is compulsory now or
0:09:03 responsibility
0:09:04 for them to now teach same-sex
0:09:06 relationship and and curriculums
0:09:08 that basically kind of normalize these
0:09:09 things i mean my brother yousef patel
0:09:11 who who's involved in orders he said i'm
0:09:13 going to talk to me go and contact me
0:09:14 i'm going to do a
0:09:15 not podcast my interview with him
0:09:16 because he i did one with a christian
0:09:17 guy and he said there was some
0:09:18 things that are not true so he contacted
0:09:21 me and you can keep an eye for that so
0:09:23 so what basically happens that um around
0:09:25 a couple of hundred muslim parents
0:09:26 uh in birmingham when they got away from
0:09:29 what's being taught
0:09:30 without consultation yes um they would
0:09:33 do their children
0:09:34 from going to school and they protested
0:09:35 peacefully within the framework of the
0:09:36 law
0:09:37 outside the school basically saying that
0:09:38 you cannot be teaching our children
0:09:40 these kind of things that you know
0:09:41 uh iman can come into school and
0:09:43 identify as amina and i mean i can come
0:09:45 to school identifies abdullah
0:09:46 these things are not gonna happen um
0:09:48 that you can absolutely
0:09:50 be gay or muslim meaning they're
0:09:51 teaching these things not from a morally
0:09:52 neutral point of view absolutely yeah
0:09:54 and there's this kind of a straw man
0:09:55 where people say oh well we teach
0:09:57 religious studies religious studies
0:09:59 taught from a morally neutral point of
0:10:00 view
0:10:01 whereas this was not but the greater
0:10:03 point here is that muslim parents
0:10:05 deemed it worrying and alarming enough
0:10:08 to protest um peacefully and withdrew
0:10:10 their children
0:10:11 and that sparked a national discussion
0:10:13 from the government
0:10:14 to you know the main tv shows and news
0:10:17 channels and everything
0:10:19 and they were labeled homophobic
0:10:21 fundamentalist extremist intolerant but
0:10:23 that did not stop them
0:10:24 and you know what else though i want to
0:10:26 add i was just looking at some of those
0:10:28 videos and
0:10:28 they're freely available on the internet
0:10:30 now like um on sky news
0:10:32 uh youtube channel i was looking at the
0:10:34 comments underneath and actually there
0:10:36 was a lot of people
0:10:37 um in support of muslims from the
0:10:40 christian community
0:10:41 and from other communities there was a
0:10:43 rabbi traveling
0:10:45 after my showdown from with piers morgan
0:10:48 i had overwhelming support which you can
0:10:50 see online
0:10:50 yes you can yeah on gmb and by the way
0:10:52 they cut six minutes from that they
0:10:53 didn't
0:10:54 upload the full thing but um the
0:10:56 overwhelming support from
0:10:57 christians especially who said our
0:10:59 leaders no longer have a backbone
0:11:01 right we are a spineless community many
0:11:03 christians convey this to me that we
0:11:05 have already
0:11:05 succumbed to this centuries ago you
0:11:07 understand whereas you guys are
0:11:09 representing
0:11:10 you're making us proud our abrahamic
0:11:11 brethren etc you know there was a lot of
0:11:13 support from the jewish communities
0:11:15 that was one of the most commented
0:11:17 things so so so
0:11:18 you know but the point to take away from
0:11:20 this is that
0:11:22 the parents were resilient yeah they did
0:11:24 not buckle under pressure
0:11:26 they were labeled just your parents or
0:11:28 was it the alamo as well
0:11:29 oh yeah of course of course they had a
0:11:31 lot of scholarly support alhamdulillah
0:11:32 there was 120 olema who signed a
0:11:34 a signed statement which you can see in
0:11:36 five pillars and it's been published
0:11:37 elsewhere
0:11:38 where they where they criticized the rac
0:11:40 bill from a legal and a moral point of
0:11:42 view
0:11:44 and just to add to that seven years ago
0:11:46 when the same-sex marriage bill went
0:11:48 through in 2013
0:11:49 500 sunni and even she
0:11:53 right salafi
0:11:58 500 scholars issued a statement saying
0:12:00 that we are against the same-sex
0:12:01 marriage bill the bill still went
0:12:03 through but a statement and a stance on
0:12:05 a precedent was set
0:12:06 that this is not something that we're
0:12:07 willing to accept wholeheartedly
0:12:10 and you're not going to get the full
0:12:11 support of the community especially not
0:12:12 from the religious figures
0:12:14 and when you compare that now to the us
0:12:16 where their freedom of speech laws are
0:12:18 far more relaxed
0:12:19 exactly you can get away with saying a
0:12:21 lot more and you're doing a lot more we
0:12:23 went to a campus christian shout and you
0:12:24 go in hell okay i've never seen in my
0:12:26 life
0:12:26 can you imagine you're going to the fire
0:12:28 you're gonna okay well i think it's well
0:12:30 if this is davos
0:12:32 and there's a far stronger christian
0:12:34 conservative constituency in the us
0:12:37 so sometimes when we see things in the
0:12:38 u.s right i think ourselves this is
0:12:41 we've got tighter freedom expression
0:12:42 laws here and free speech our hate
0:12:43 speech laws are very very tight
0:12:45 in america you can get away we're saying
0:12:47 a lot as well as packing guns as well
0:12:48 let's remember this is a cowboy country
0:12:50 the muslims could strategically if they
0:12:52 want to do
0:12:53 could look at alternative alliances
0:12:57 in terms of fulfilling single-issue
0:12:59 stuff like the rse bill and you know
0:13:01 lgbt issues
0:13:03 but as we're going to discuss later on
0:13:04 this whole kind of blind allegiance to
0:13:06 the left the progressive left
0:13:08 is dangerous and we already started to
0:13:10 see the rotten fruits of it
0:13:12 and talking about let's let's talk about
0:13:14 that um i think
0:13:15 case study one we should talk about um
0:13:18 is a prominent figure in america called
0:13:21 linda sarsour
0:13:22 yes who i think is a palestinian
0:13:24 nationalist or
0:13:26 she at least has palestinian allegiances
0:13:28 which is of course a very good thing
0:13:29 she believes in rights for the
0:13:31 palestinians etc
0:13:33 but what i've understood from her from
0:13:36 her rhetoric really is that she's
0:13:37 totally subsumed
0:13:39 into this ideology of the left totally
0:13:42 absorbed into it
0:13:43 and categorically almost unreservedly
0:13:46 right
0:13:47 um talks about you know give lgbt rights
0:13:50 but not only that
0:13:52 it seems like and this needs to be
0:13:54 corrected and asked i mean this is a
0:13:56 point of
0:13:57 question here is she morally in favor of
0:14:01 this behavior
0:14:02 in other words does she deem it as
0:14:03 morally acceptable
0:14:05 this is a question i still don't know
0:14:06 the answer to to for same-sex behavior
0:14:08 between two people
0:14:10 and also on abortion and what i find
0:14:13 really
0:14:13 to be honest with you disturbing is that
0:14:15 the acquiescence
0:14:17 of the the clerics in america to this
0:14:19 and even
0:14:20 to some degree the support of some of
0:14:23 these clerics
0:14:24 on what basis is that um justifiable in
0:14:28 islam
0:14:29 on what basis is this okay and
0:14:32 what benefit is this giving us as the
0:14:34 muslim community in the us
0:14:37 before i lay some smackdowns i think you
0:14:39 should go with the smackdown man
0:14:41 so look for those of you don't know who
0:14:43 uh sister linda sarsouri she's an
0:14:44 american palestinian activist from uh
0:14:47 brooklyn from new york very prominent
0:14:48 came into huge prominence i think couple
0:14:50 of years ago in the million women's
0:14:51 march
0:14:52 outside washington dc went you know
0:14:53 against trump and some of the comments
0:14:55 he made against women et cetera
0:14:57 and there's various interviews and
0:14:59 statements of hers where she's uh you
0:15:01 know
0:15:01 conveyed clear un-islamic positions
0:15:04 any coffee i mean this isn't without
0:15:06 shadow of a doubt whether we're not
0:15:07 calling her a cafe i always say that the
0:15:09 statements she has made is without a
0:15:11 shadow of a doubt goes beyond the
0:15:12 conclusion
0:15:12 which one's like for example yeah like
0:15:14 what like i'm sorry i'll be honest i
0:15:16 don't know okay i don't really know her
0:15:17 so
0:15:18 you guys tell me about her i don't know
0:15:19 okay so from my understanding i believe
0:15:20 she is of the position of
0:15:22 unrestricted right of women to abort
0:15:24 azam when they wish
0:15:26 all right let me read out exactly what
0:15:27 she says um
0:15:30 in minute 10 okay make sure
0:15:34 minute 10 second five right in her
0:15:36 interview when she was actually with
0:15:38 yesterday
0:15:40 and she says gay rights and islamic
0:15:41 rights are part of the same struggle she
0:15:43 agreed to this point
0:15:44 so this i want to understand from her
0:15:46 does she mean to say
0:15:48 that she believes that gay rights or
0:15:51 that
0:15:52 homosexual behavior on a fundamental
0:15:54 level is
0:15:55 uh is okay um i think what she's saying
0:15:58 here
0:15:59 and this is a very common strand of
0:16:00 thinking within the left the progressive
0:16:02 left is intersectionality and
0:16:04 or intersectional politics which is
0:16:05 basically there are certain oppressed
0:16:07 groups and discriminate groups in
0:16:08 society so it's usually
0:16:10 class obviously it's roots is it within
0:16:12 marxism so it's class
0:16:14 gender sexuality yeah now race
0:16:17 to say that all these kind of different
0:16:18 groups are all within
0:16:20 part of a greater struggle against the
0:16:22 establishment
0:16:23 and therefore islamic rights or that the
0:16:26 rights of the muslim community is on par
0:16:28 with
0:16:28 the lgbt rights because we're both
0:16:30 discriminated communities
0:16:31 so it makes from a muslim point of view
0:16:33 strategically wise to ally with the lgbt
0:16:37 and even black lives matter and others
0:16:39 right because we are all discriminating
0:16:40 minorities can i just come in on this
0:16:42 because i've actually written a book on
0:16:43 intersectionality yeah
0:16:44 it's called fifth wave feminism that's
0:16:46 right and um
0:16:48 this book is available for you to
0:16:51 buy and actually what this book was a
0:16:52 collection of maybe five or six essays
0:16:54 that i've done when i was in the gender
0:16:56 studies
0:16:56 department of psoas and they all got
0:16:58 distinctions actually
0:16:59 high level distinctions so no one said
0:17:01 who cares
0:17:09 anyway look this this term was i think
0:17:11 first introduced by kimberly crenshaw
0:17:13 right in maybe the 80s or the 90s right
0:17:16 and
0:17:17 like you've just said so women women in
0:17:20 feminism it doesn't have to be women
0:17:21 because obviously trans
0:17:22 theory comes into it and this is part of
0:17:24 the the wider kind of queer theory
0:17:26 have different identifiers yes so it's
0:17:29 not just not she's not just a woman
0:17:30 she's a woman
0:17:31 she's a black woman she's you know um
0:17:34 working class so class gets in there yes
0:17:37 the problem here that i have with this
0:17:38 is that the hierarchization of these
0:17:40 identifiers is usually left
0:17:42 to western um people so in other words
0:17:45 why is it that womanhood number one is
0:17:47 more important than for example
0:17:49 let's say for the sake of argument tribe
0:17:51 because if you go to africa right
0:17:53 a woman's tribe might be more important
0:17:55 to her
0:17:56 than her quote-unquote gender obviously
0:17:59 the word gender is extremely fluent in
0:18:00 these in these discourses right
0:18:02 and the same thing might be said with
0:18:03 religion right but what i'm arguing is
0:18:06 if we have a community of women yeah who
0:18:10 may i'm not saying will or do right may
0:18:13 identify firstly as being religious
0:18:15 and then after that as anything else
0:18:18 so the hierarchization is left to her
0:18:21 right
0:18:22 from an intersectional perspective and
0:18:23 this is the argument i make in the book
0:18:25 right
0:18:25 from an intersectional perspective is
0:18:27 not that islam
0:18:28 should be subordinate in that sense to
0:18:32 intersectional feminist thought it's in
0:18:34 fact intersectional feminist law
0:18:36 which has to take on board the full
0:18:39 nature
0:18:39 of the islamic character of such
0:18:41 absolute person not like one shoe fits
0:18:43 all
0:18:43 no what i'm saying is this is that if
0:18:45 the inter we can use the intersection
0:18:48 if the intersectionless approach is used
0:18:49 with a community like the muslim
0:18:51 community for example
0:18:52 and they decide to hierarchies their own
0:18:56 identifiers such that religion becomes
0:18:58 prioritized
0:18:59 which they should be if if of course
0:19:01 autonomy is afforded to them and from a
0:19:03 feminist perspective that should be the
0:19:04 case
0:19:05 if they um if they prioritize their
0:19:07 religious character
0:19:09 then that would suggest that at least
0:19:12 that
0:19:13 um islam or let's say the religious
0:19:15 character whatever it may be that they
0:19:17 believe in even conservative islam
0:19:19 even ideas by the way which might be
0:19:21 which might be
0:19:23 patriarchal in second wave senses
0:19:25 because remember this whole
0:19:25 intersectional thing is moving on to
0:19:27 third wave feminism
0:19:28 it's no longer second wave it's no
0:19:29 longer the patriarchal societies
0:19:31 we've gone way deeper into the discourse
0:19:33 than that
0:19:34 so what i'm saying is really if we were
0:19:36 to use an intersection as a
0:19:38 intersectional approach on an
0:19:39 intellectual level what we can actually
0:19:40 establish is
0:19:42 women uh who are muslim or people that
0:19:45 are muslim doesn't have to be women
0:19:46 necessarily because of course
0:19:48 gender is not necessarily confined to
0:19:50 womenness or femininity if at all
0:19:52 to anything like that if if they exist
0:19:54 in on this on this
0:19:55 paradigm um once again if they
0:19:59 if they identify firstly as muslim that
0:20:01 should be the thing
0:20:03 so why don't we argue using the
0:20:04 intersectionist approach that we should
0:20:07 be you should allow
0:20:08 us like for example epistemologically
0:20:10 they can't allow that you know this
0:20:11 no no but here's what i'm saying look
0:20:13 there has been a bias
0:20:14 in favor of what we call western or
0:20:17 colonial feminism
0:20:18 right white women or even privileged
0:20:21 women that are not white
0:20:22 exactly as privileged just like me and
0:20:25 you are privileged right
0:20:26 on this discourse yeah and why can they
0:20:29 call the shots yeah
0:20:30 like for example if we really did a
0:20:32 referendum on the muslim community
0:20:34 how much do you percent do you think
0:20:36 will agree with her stances on lgbt
0:20:38 how representative is she really of the
0:20:41 muslim community
0:20:42 she her stances are basically not
0:20:45 representative of islam
0:20:46 of the muslim community in the us or the
0:20:48 uk or any part of the west so let's just
0:20:50 so let's go over some of these positions
0:20:51 so so her position on abortion yes since
0:20:54 she has a
0:20:56 position on obviously same-sex
0:20:57 relationships right so
0:20:59 so and from my understand there's also
0:21:01 some concern with regards to
0:21:02 her views on muslim women having
0:21:04 non-muslim husbands and partners right
0:21:06 really yeah so
0:21:07 so there's a plethora of issues
0:21:09 pertaining to linda's
0:21:10 uh positions and and we shouldn't be
0:21:13 surprised
0:21:13 and and for the last five ten minutes
0:21:15 where uh hijab spoke very academically
0:21:18 and you know if you got a bit lost
0:21:19 what we're essentially saying here is
0:21:21 that linda has subscribed to a framework
0:21:23 of activism
0:21:24 uh and an ideological basis which is on
0:21:26 islamic let's be frank about it right
0:21:28 and its roots is within marxism and marx
0:21:31 had no space for religion
0:21:32 religion was an oppressive factor on
0:21:34 society do you understand against the
0:21:36 proletariat and the bourgeoisie
0:21:37 religion was just an opium yeah so in
0:21:40 that case we have to understand that
0:21:42 linda has subscribed and many others by
0:21:44 the way and even in the uk we have
0:21:46 mayor sadiq khan we have salma yakubis
0:21:48 who's far
0:21:49 less prominent but we have similar
0:21:51 individuals but just not as prominent as
0:21:53 linda who's made huge waves
0:21:55 and this position which she espouses are
0:21:58 clearly un-islamic
0:21:59 and she carries on trying to justify and
0:22:02 if she gets the support from ulama
0:22:04 and institutes who come across as
0:22:06 traditional mainstream and normative
0:22:08 this is a very very dangerous thing
0:22:10 between you and this is the problem and
0:22:12 that has happened with like uh
0:22:14 yasir khadi called i don't know what was
0:22:16 actual word used but praising her
0:22:18 um so if and let's not get into
0:22:22 they are the issue but if he is someone
0:22:24 that people
0:22:25 seem an american muslim an authority
0:22:28 if he's praising her then what do we do
0:22:32 from that moment almost i don't
0:22:33 understand yeah
0:22:34 this this this is a point of attention
0:22:35 because i had this conversation with you
0:22:37 face to face can i just say something in
0:22:38 defense defensive
0:22:39 yeah so you also got the when when linda
0:22:41 came down for men's
0:22:43 national anti-islamophobia conference
0:22:44 kind of thing right there was this kind
0:22:46 of very open discussion between yasser
0:22:48 khadi and linda sarsour because a lot of
0:22:49 muslims in the uk
0:22:50 raised concerns yes you can see it it
0:22:53 should be on men's youtube channel yeah
0:22:55 um and and you also put a bit of he or
0:22:58 not he pressured a little bit
0:22:59 impressed on some of her positions she
0:23:01 got you know a bit on the back foot
0:23:03 because it wasn't like mahdi hassan
0:23:04 who's
0:23:04 on her side right this is more of a kind
0:23:07 of neutral islamic platform yeah
0:23:09 so it's there and uh so inyasgardi's
0:23:11 defense he did
0:23:12 at times has pushed out on her positions
0:23:15 but they have a muslim calculus
0:23:17 and that is why would we call out linda
0:23:20 and dalia another individual
0:23:24 um why would we call them out when
0:23:26 number one the far right the right wing
0:23:28 the quran the disbeliefs and those who
0:23:29 are actual open enemies of islam and
0:23:31 muslims are attacking these very same
0:23:32 people
0:23:33 and they have the same justification for
0:23:34 ilhan omar
0:23:36 but the point is where do we draw the
0:23:38 line well i was just about to say that
0:23:39 where do we draw the line where do we
0:23:41 draw the line
0:23:42 that's that's the question today's topic
0:23:43 it's the right wing it's not just
0:23:45 it's not just open enemies of islam the
0:23:47 left wing also no no what
0:23:49 is that not all of them are enemies of
0:23:50 islam and likewise people on the left
0:23:53 are sometimes enemies of islam
0:23:55 sometimes basically wolves and chiefs
0:23:57 which one is which one do okay let's be
0:23:59 honest which one do you think is worse
0:24:00 the far right or the far left it's very
0:24:02 difficult number one second i believe
0:24:03 the far
0:24:04 right not being that general here want
0:24:07 to
0:24:08 kill the body in the context and the far
0:24:10 left looks like they want to kill the
0:24:11 soul
0:24:12 because if we're talking about the
0:24:13 lgbtq2 the fire get out of my country i
0:24:15 don't want you here i want you dead
0:24:16 the lgbtq the far left what they're
0:24:18 doing is they're not coming they say no
0:24:19 we don't want to kill you we love you
0:24:21 but internally they destroy you to us as
0:24:23 muslims
0:24:24 is our body more important to the soul
0:24:26 so i believe the far left are a greater
0:24:28 danger than the fire
0:24:29 that's interesting what you're saying is
0:24:30 that it's yeah the the rhetoric of the
0:24:32 far right
0:24:33 is is more interested in removing of
0:24:35 physical bodies immigration and
0:24:37 i prefer an enemy and the left is more
0:24:40 theological
0:24:41 or ideological exactly and then as human
0:24:44 beings we live in a materialistic world
0:24:45 where everything's aesthetic so when we
0:24:46 see someone saying we love you
0:24:48 wow you love me okay and then our guards
0:24:50 drop down now when we go to the far
0:24:52 right when i see the fire right now i
0:24:52 was in confrontation i know what they're
0:24:54 about i know why i expect i don't know
0:24:55 what i'm going to give
0:24:56 yeah so with the far left there i love
0:24:58 you and you feel a bit like
0:25:00 okay you know maybe let me be a bit i
0:25:01 think the question is where do we draw
0:25:03 the line and
0:25:04 where do you think our american muslim
0:25:05 brother and sister are
0:25:07 making a mistake before we go into the
0:25:08 specifics of safur and american activism
0:25:11 it's important to say that brotherhood
0:25:12 says
0:25:13 islam is neither right or left it is uh
0:25:16 the middle path right you will find
0:25:18 commonalities in the left and socialism
0:25:20 you'll find commonalities in the right
0:25:21 when it comes to family traditional
0:25:22 values law and order
0:25:24 there you'll find it with economy fiscal
0:25:25 policies et cetera et cetera yes
0:25:27 but the point here is when we've looked
0:25:28 at successive governments
0:25:30 in the west in the west namely the uk
0:25:32 and the us right
0:25:33 both the left and the right have killed
0:25:35 islam and have killed muslims
0:25:36 and maligned islam yes obama had the
0:25:39 most drawn strikes
0:25:40 right exactly through his tenure as
0:25:42 president then trump then the donald
0:25:43 trump yeah
0:25:44 obama was the one that introduced the
0:25:46 travel ban trump only added two or three
0:25:47 more countries how many did you know i
0:25:49 mean if you guys knew that tony blair
0:25:51 was center left this man was a socialist
0:25:53 right china is a communist country
0:25:55 russia is a uh a follower now i wouldn't
0:25:58 say it's not a
0:25:58 socialist no no no no no but the point
0:26:00 i'm trying to make is we should get this
0:26:01 out of this caricaturing that the writer
0:26:03 our enemies and the left are our allies
0:26:05 but i appreciate that there is a growing
0:26:07 trend of muslim academics
0:26:09 who are doing d colonial studies who are
0:26:11 doing
0:26:12 sociology and all various other studies
0:26:14 in universities and what they have said
0:26:16 to me
0:26:17 is that muslim academics and activists
0:26:20 find
0:26:20 the left as a safe space to articulate
0:26:23 our grievances
0:26:24 yeah we don't find that space in the
0:26:26 right we find the space within the left
0:26:28 because since they're already
0:26:29 criticizing
0:26:30 colonialism within a particular
0:26:32 restricted framework i must add as well
0:26:33 it's not an
0:26:34 adulterated critique of european
0:26:36 colonialism right
0:26:37 but there's a space there where muslims
0:26:40 can criticize counter-extremism laws
0:26:41 foreign policy
0:26:42 islamophobia et cetera et cetera and i
0:26:44 think that is why there is a natural
0:26:46 gravitation towards
0:26:47 the problem is as ali's just kind of
0:26:49 alluded to right now when you get sucked
0:26:50 into this
0:26:51 and then they say to you well okay we
0:26:53 will be your friend so on
0:26:54 and so on but then you have to kind of
0:26:56 inherit
0:26:57 our ideologies right so you but now you
0:27:00 have to believe in what we believe in
0:27:02 when it comes to gay marriage when it
0:27:03 comes to homosexual behavior when it
0:27:04 comes to
0:27:05 whatever abortion abortion and so on and
0:27:07 so forth and all of these things are
0:27:09 completely against islam uh when it
0:27:12 comes to
0:27:13 linda herself to be honest with you i
0:27:16 was i was looking at some of the videos
0:27:17 that she's put up online
0:27:18 okay and um what i've
0:27:22 noticed is actually she's quite pro
0:27:23 provocateur now i've seen her
0:27:25 speaking to uh you know with with strong
0:27:28 left wing
0:27:30 rhetoric and i think this actually
0:27:32 causes a backlash
0:27:33 in the sense that there's some people on
0:27:34 the center right maybe not exactly far
0:27:37 right
0:27:38 that would come back and probably say
0:27:39 something like well
0:27:41 why so we hate you for two reasons now
0:27:43 you're muslim and you're left away
0:27:45 and you're giving people additional
0:27:47 reasons to hate you right
0:27:49 well you don't need to inherit these
0:27:50 belief systems i i think the beautiful
0:27:53 thing about islam is like once you
0:27:54 like you've just said it's it's all
0:27:56 inclusive and it's not left all right
0:27:59 and so going and allying with the left
0:28:01 and inheriting these things is gonna
0:28:02 cause problems
0:28:03 i think i think um sarsour's gonna be
0:28:06 watching this
0:28:08 and i just uh we need to formulate
0:28:10 certain questions to ask her and i think
0:28:11 that she owes it to the muslim community
0:28:13 at this stage to answer these questions
0:28:16 and the first question is do you believe
0:28:19 it's morally accept homosexual behavior
0:28:21 anything from kiss on the cheek
0:28:24 to full fully fledged penetrative sex
0:28:27 between man and man for example
0:28:29 do you believe that this is morally
0:28:30 acceptable that's a
0:28:32 b do you believe abortion is morally
0:28:35 acceptable
0:28:36 after four months like let's say a six
0:28:39 month old
0:28:40 uh child in the mother's womb do you
0:28:41 think that's morally acceptable
0:28:43 number three do you believe that a woman
0:28:47 a muslim woman can marry a for example
0:28:49 christian an atheist man do you think
0:28:50 that's a morally acceptable position
0:28:53 do you believe that that is morally
0:28:54 acceptable yes or no these questions are
0:28:56 all yes or no questions
0:28:58 we want to know so that we can position
0:29:00 you or so we can make a judgment upon
0:29:02 you
0:29:02 as a public person um in the muslim
0:29:05 community because the truth of the
0:29:06 matter is
0:29:07 and that we should mention this as well
0:29:10 is that she was rejected by the
0:29:11 democratic party isn't it yes about the
0:29:13 biden campaign just
0:29:14 uh i believe it's last month they
0:29:16 literally dropped at the drop of a hat
0:29:17 literally that she was she was at a
0:29:19 um biden campaign event i believe
0:29:22 and some journalists noticed her and as
0:29:24 soon as they raised concerns with the
0:29:26 election campaign team of biden
0:29:28 they literally dropped her and distanced
0:29:30 herself distance themselves from uh
0:29:32 linda like what was she doing there no
0:29:34 she i think she was there just
0:29:35 delivering a
0:29:36 um a speech to to kind of uh
0:29:40 rally and organize arab muslim voters
0:29:43 for the biden campaign because obviously
0:29:45 elections coming up next month
0:29:47 and as soon as they identified linda who
0:29:49 was generally known as um you know
0:29:51 progressive progress about what's what's
0:29:53 saunders name what's the guy's name
0:29:54 before the guy's name
0:29:55 bernie sanders yeah um she's generally
0:29:57 known as
0:29:58 that kind of left of the democratic
0:30:00 party was biden is like center left this
0:30:02 guy is also near liberal
0:30:03 you know i mean so as soon as they
0:30:05 clocked linda so they dropped her
0:30:06 because you know we
0:30:07 you know she has nothing to do with this
0:30:08 campaign it's all to do with her
0:30:09 position
0:30:10 on philistines huge humiliation
0:30:14 and this reminds me of hadith uh
0:30:17 actually it's a beautiful hadith for the
0:30:18 prophet
0:30:20 that if you do something for the
0:30:23 pleasure
0:30:24 of the people and that that causes the
0:30:26 displeasure of allah
0:30:27 then allah will basically leave you to
0:30:29 the people in other words
0:30:31 the people will be happy with you
0:30:32 neither will i yes so
0:30:34 and this is the reality of the situation
0:30:36 the truth is when you're
0:30:37 when you're grounded in islamic
0:30:39 principles right as i'm sure you've
0:30:41 both kind of experienced with your
0:30:43 respective activisms
0:30:45 when you're grounded with islamic
0:30:46 principles no matter what happens you
0:30:48 know that actually
0:30:49 this is the theological position that
0:30:50 makes most sense in my religion
0:30:52 so whatever happens to me i'm sticking
0:30:55 by what i know is true exactly you know
0:30:57 you know you ask some question to sister
0:30:58 linda yeah yeah the question before she
0:31:00 answers i think she needs then there has
0:31:02 to be a point of reflection she needs to
0:31:03 say okay
0:31:04 instead of some people when you ask a
0:31:05 question okay i need to answer this
0:31:07 before i answer that are you answering
0:31:08 it from
0:31:09 yourself or from the quran it's very
0:31:11 important because if it's coming from
0:31:13 you
0:31:13 so this is something this is the dean of
0:31:15 allah so if you're going to answer these
0:31:17 questions of abortion lgbqt
0:31:19 and all the other things and you're
0:31:20 coming from your perspective and you
0:31:22 when you think
0:31:22 what you think is right this is very
0:31:24 problematic aki because
0:31:26 if there's no basis like if she says
0:31:28 that she said it with the interview with
0:31:29 uh
0:31:30 she's not a scholar so how could you
0:31:32 make statements aki
0:31:34 where is the dean of allah in such
0:31:36 magnitude
0:31:37 with confidence i would say before
0:31:39 answering this question she really needs
0:31:40 to ponder upon
0:31:41 if this is coming from an area of
0:31:42 knowledge and if it's not one needs to
0:31:44 be really careful to what they're saying
0:31:47 and really i do think once again to
0:31:49 press this point
0:31:50 that those three questions in particular
0:31:52 where the guidelines in islam
0:31:54 are absolutely categorical
0:31:57 we do need as a muslim community yeah
0:32:00 because you're a public figure
0:32:01 i'm sure many people your constituents
0:32:04 in the us
0:32:04 your fans or your friends or whoever you
0:32:07 want to call them
0:32:08 we need an answer to these three
0:32:09 questions to repeat one more time the
0:32:11 three questions are
0:32:12 do you believe that same-sex behavior
0:32:14 homosexual behavior is morally
0:32:16 acceptable
0:32:17 whether a muslim is doing it or a
0:32:18 non-muslim is doing it anybody is doing
0:32:21 it
0:32:21 is homosexual behavior according to your
0:32:23 worldview
0:32:24 is that morally acceptable number two do
0:32:27 you believe
0:32:27 abortion in all circumstances
0:32:30 is morally acceptable do you believe
0:32:32 that do you believe that abortion maybe
0:32:34 a five-month
0:32:35 old child or a six-month-old child you
0:32:37 think that that is a morally acceptable
0:32:39 stance
0:32:40 number three what was the settlement uh
0:32:43 um
0:32:43 muslim women marrying a muslim woman
0:32:45 marrying uh let's say an atheist or a
0:32:47 christian
0:32:48 do you believe that's acceptable and is
0:32:49 that morally okay in your
0:32:51 on your world view is this okay yes or
0:32:54 no and we need to know the answers
0:32:55 because
0:32:55 the truth is this woman comes on
0:32:57 television programs
0:32:58 she comes on different interviews and
0:33:00 she says my people referencing the
0:33:02 muslims
0:33:03 muslims if you survey them almost
0:33:06 anywhere in the world with these three
0:33:07 questions
0:33:08 the vast majority of muslims will answer
0:33:11 in a very specific way to these three
0:33:13 questions
0:33:14 anywhere in the world if you want to if
0:33:16 you want to represent the muslim
0:33:17 interest you have to speak
0:33:18 the muslim language so linda another
0:33:21 thing is um
0:33:22 you're welcome to come to the podcast
0:33:23 the mh podcast yeah we're gonna have
0:33:25 a face-to-face discussion obviously on
0:33:27 zoom or whatever i'm very interested and
0:33:28 we can we can have a discussion on these
0:33:30 matters
0:33:31 you're very much invited to this and i
0:33:34 believe
0:33:34 that people all over the western world
0:33:36 muslims and non-muslims alike
0:33:38 would like to hear you really answer
0:33:40 these questions because at the end of
0:33:42 the day
0:33:42 people are accusing you of being or
0:33:45 speaking a forked tongue
0:33:46 which which is the point talking about
0:33:49 this
0:33:50 japan could you just say something yes
0:33:51 i'll keep it very slowly
0:33:53 because someone will say well look you
0:33:54 know she's not here to defend herself
0:33:55 and i and i need to just play that
0:33:56 little part just so we're not sinful for
0:33:58 this
0:33:58 there's no sense so
0:34:02 look no one's taken away linda's great
0:34:05 work
0:34:06 in in the in the field of activism for
0:34:08 islamophobia can't extremism laws
0:34:10 palestine et cetera no one's taking this
0:34:11 away from you
0:34:12 we appreciate and acknowledge those good
0:34:14 things that you've done and you've got a
0:34:15 long track record
0:34:17 but we want to reiterate to the
0:34:18 listeners the viewers and yourself
0:34:20 that these things are not a criteria for
0:34:22 islamic activism
0:34:24 these things are not a foreign they're
0:34:26 not a source or a basis
0:34:28 for how we go about enjoying good and
0:34:30 forbidding evil right
0:34:31 so these are good things in and of
0:34:32 themselves but once you start dabbling
0:34:34 and dipping your feet in your case
0:34:35 putting the
0:34:36 putting yourself entirely in it in
0:34:38 propagating these positions which are
0:34:40 unequivocally haram and coffee then you
0:34:42 will be called out exactly and i think
0:34:47 is that he said um that how many people
0:34:49 intended good but they never
0:34:51 got the chance to achieve it so we're
0:34:52 not we're not saying you intentionally
0:34:54 we're not coming and sending you an
0:34:55 infiltrator
0:34:56 what we're saying is your intention
0:34:57 might be good and this goes to our next
0:34:58 topic of the whole
0:34:59 um issue because
0:35:03 once again look and i'll i'll dive
0:35:05 straight into it here
0:35:06 is that any muslim that does a certain
0:35:09 act whoever beat me i never ever
0:35:11 we're talking about the issue of the
0:35:12 whole you know okay the
0:35:15 the whole issue of you know brother
0:35:17 daniel what was brought up the
0:35:19 the whole things of the ritual all of
0:35:21 that yeah i want to make that from the i
0:35:22 just want to make something very clear
0:35:24 anytime i see any of that behavior from
0:35:26 any muslim i personally do not think
0:35:28 this person is intentionally committing
0:35:30 i believe the intentions are there but
0:35:32 in an action an
0:35:33 action to be accepted as we know from
0:35:35 the quran sunnah is that i can't say my
0:35:37 intentions are good let me go to a
0:35:38 nightclub and speak to some girls and
0:35:39 give them dawah
0:35:39 yeah maybe i might receive that one have
0:35:41 you ever um why just ask the personal
0:35:43 questions
0:35:45 yeah don't remember no joke yeah the
0:35:48 thing is
0:35:48 intentions are good but if your actions
0:35:50 are not recorded in the quran is it
0:35:52 going to be
0:35:52 accepted so the question is yeah i think
0:35:55 this is a good point
0:35:56 to raise actually i'm not really
0:35:58 interested in that particular case study
0:36:00 in a vacuum
0:36:01 i'm interested in it in conjunction with
0:36:03 our major question which is
0:36:05 activism in the uk and the us because i
0:36:08 think
0:36:09 the bigger question here is when um
0:36:13 dr ahmad suleiman of course who we love
0:36:15 and respect who's a muslim and who we
0:36:17 think good
0:36:17 things of we don't we we're not trying
0:36:19 to cancel anybody right
0:36:22 now the two believers that we see
0:36:26 all the believers and the quran
0:36:27 instructs us this is very important guys
0:36:29 you know
0:36:30 the quran instructs us to say um to be
0:36:32 humble with the believers
0:36:35 you know and lower your wing to the
0:36:36 believers
0:36:52 look let's talk about this because yeah
0:36:55 with with this
0:36:56 in the uk we said that we've we've had
0:36:59 quite
0:36:59 let's say a conference a confrontational
0:37:01 approach sometimes with
0:37:03 the case study that you brought up with
0:37:04 the birmingham incident which you said
0:37:05 has
0:37:06 had traction and was instigating
0:37:09 national conversations
0:37:10 this situation here was clearly the the
0:37:13 the migrant protest was
0:37:14 is being spearheaded by um left-wing
0:37:18 parties of which obviously the lgbt
0:37:20 community
0:37:21 came came forward christian community um
0:37:24 i think some jews were there yeah faith
0:37:26 groups are left leaning yes
0:37:27 jews and christians and i generally left
0:37:29 leadership so
0:37:31 they're all kind of together and there
0:37:32 were some really like horrible things
0:37:34 that we had to
0:37:35 witness first first of them was the
0:37:38 anointments
0:37:39 because this was clear in my appointment
0:37:42 in my
0:37:42 understanding uh disbelief okay so
0:37:46 the the sister what was her name
0:37:49 so she is someone she is not just um so
0:37:51 this person who was literally being
0:37:53 she had a cross being anointed on her
0:37:55 head something of that nature
0:37:57 no no no no i'm sorry i have to be
0:37:59 educated here as far as i know i saw a
0:38:01 lgbq whatever you want to call it with a
0:38:03 rainbow thing
0:38:04 doing a crossing and then i don't know
0:38:06 the exact words i don't know
0:38:07 it was the right one it was a cross did
0:38:10 the cross happen
0:38:11 yes yes yes yes bro to me that was the
0:38:14 like what was it just about hold on was
0:38:17 it just her or was it someone else no
0:38:18 there was then another
0:38:19 guy from amazon was there another
0:38:21 brother was there it's also important
0:38:22 what's his name
0:38:24 he was the head of care wasn't he yeah i
0:38:27 think so
0:38:27 but in attendance yes yes so there's
0:38:29 care and shoes i believe she
0:38:34 very prominent we also need to mention
0:38:36 that imam's eyes shark his from say tuna
0:38:38 was present in this he was present but
0:38:39 he wasn't doing this
0:38:41 right it's an important differentiate
0:38:42 between who was present and who was
0:38:44 doing it it's also important to
0:38:45 understand
0:38:45 that with this with this particular if
0:38:47 we've got people of knowledge there
0:38:49 that nominee can incar and and not
0:38:51 forbidding this evil
0:38:53 whilst it's happening in front of them
0:38:54 what's a greater activism than the
0:38:55 activism against
0:38:57 i gave a speech i gave a lecture at ucl
0:38:59 last year it was entitled what is the
0:39:01 ideal muslim activist
0:39:03 and what we start is the before we start
0:39:06 thinking
0:39:07 of um the rights of the people it's the
0:39:09 rights of allah exactly
0:39:11 that is the basis of our activism and
0:39:13 from that emanates everything but you
0:39:15 know here's the point guys look i'll be
0:39:16 honest with you
0:39:17 yeah i have to become i've spoken to
0:39:18 yesterday about this before and i had
0:39:20 the whole kind of podcast with him
0:39:22 i yeah we know about that i know the
0:39:24 first one not the second one all right i
0:39:25 had two
0:39:26 podcasts yeah we know
0:39:30 but with that we had this discussion
0:39:31 right and it's an important discussion
0:39:33 and we're trying to just kind of find
0:39:34 best practice here for muslims because
0:39:37 not only are these kinds of protests
0:39:39 which are spearheaded by these lgbt
0:39:42 groups or left-leaning groups whatever
0:39:43 you want to call them um
0:39:45 spearheaded by them and then muslims are
0:39:47 expected to come and kind of tag along
0:39:50 not only are they problematic from an
0:39:52 allegiance perspective but they're
0:39:53 problematic
0:39:54 practically i mean look at what's
0:39:56 happening if someone as
0:39:58 someone as religious someone as
0:40:00 knowledgeable as um
0:40:03 was pressured let's be honest he was
0:40:04 pressured enough not to
0:40:06 kind of do incar as you've mentioned not
0:40:08 to negate this not to make a speech
0:40:10 against this
0:40:11 which quite frankly if this guy would
0:40:13 have gone to speaker's corner
0:40:14 right and done this to muslim people
0:40:17 this person would have been
0:40:18 laughed out the park so what i'm saying
0:40:20 is
0:40:21 if someone like him can be kind of
0:40:23 pressured to do things like this yeah
0:40:24 which are things
0:40:25 quite frankly which are quite
0:40:26 frightening yeah then imagine
0:40:29 allowing a lay audience young people 15
0:40:32 16 17
0:40:34 to go to these environments where the
0:40:36 lines are complete the theological lines
0:40:38 are completely blurred
0:40:39 my question is on what basis is the
0:40:42 trade-off of a
0:40:43 young muslim person being in that
0:40:46 environment
0:40:47 in any way better than you right the
0:40:49 benefit that you can achieve from the
0:40:51 activism that's being done
0:40:52 i think blood is an understatement
0:40:53 non-existent would be more apt
0:40:55 right you know is again it's not
0:40:58 uncommon that you find
0:41:00 left-leaning progressive groups leading
0:41:03 on these issues and you'll find that
0:41:04 muslims
0:41:05 generally have little to no say in terms
0:41:07 of the terms of engagement here
0:41:10 and this is something again it's a
0:41:11 discussion that's taking place in the uk
0:41:12 so discussion has taken place in parts
0:41:14 of europe
0:41:15 but i think what's happened in the u.s
0:41:16 that they've taken it to a different
0:41:18 level
0:41:18 yeah they've taken it to a different
0:41:20 level here look at the indeed
0:41:22 as muslims in the uk brothers we don't
0:41:24 hide that we have 16 to 17 practically
0:41:26 more or less
0:41:27 useless mps when it comes to advocating
0:41:29 or pushing for muslim rights right yeah
0:41:31 we know this we know we have a mayor in
0:41:32 london who like ilhan omar will dance
0:41:35 and hold hands and and get jiggy
0:41:36 with lgbt people we know this but the
0:41:39 point we're trying to make across here
0:41:41 is the religious valid validation yes or
0:41:44 silence from people of knowledge
0:41:45 that's right mayor sadie khan did not
0:41:47 what did what he do with the support of
0:41:49 allah and
0:41:50 imams and institutes whether indirectly
0:41:52 or directly and this is what we're
0:41:53 essentially addressing here right
0:41:55 you know look i want to come here from
0:41:57 an angle yeah like you know allah tells
0:41:59 about benue
0:42:00 when he told them not to fish in the
0:42:01 sabbath she's not going to cry what's
0:42:02 going on
0:42:12 my voice
0:42:17 yeah and there was three groups the
0:42:18 first group was the ones who obeyed
0:42:20 allah the second
0:42:21 group was the ones who didn't and they
0:42:22 were acting a bit you know like you know
0:42:24 clever thinking yeah
0:42:26 and the third group was the ones beside
0:42:28 him yeah the scholars say that allah
0:42:30 destroyed the ones who didn't obey and
0:42:32 the ones who were silent yeah so it's
0:42:34 it's very important for us to understand
0:42:35 that when you're silent
0:42:36 you're a part of that yeah but i want to
0:42:38 make some i just want to come from a
0:42:40 different angle because me like i'll be
0:42:41 honest i like to give the benefit of
0:42:42 that to a believer do you get it so
0:42:44 believe it or not
0:42:45 we have to look you know why look and
0:42:47 these are the dangers like for example
0:42:48 talking about our mp
0:42:49 or the mayor here in omar whenever you
0:42:52 get into these circles you need to
0:42:54 understand
0:42:54 yeah is and we've been in certain
0:42:57 similar situations
0:42:59 yes exactly it was very awkward in the
0:43:02 context of
0:43:02 we went there because an injustice
0:43:03 happened the person that's running over
0:43:06 these uh sure brothers and sisters he
0:43:07 didn't say okay is this a shia is this a
0:43:10 he didn't so the thing is it's like in
0:43:12 these situations it's very hard because
0:43:14 you know when
0:43:15 you're trying to do something for the
0:43:16 sake of allah and you're joining hands
0:43:18 together
0:43:18 and they're praising you and saying you
0:43:19 know thank you for coming man et cetera
0:43:22 what happens is you end up trying to
0:43:25 please them unintentionally you feel
0:43:26 awkward so for example when i saw
0:43:28 i'm going to call us
0:43:35 i just want to say that so this is if
0:43:37 you like it so the thing
0:43:38 that isn't tight this is a type that's
0:43:40 being used quite really nearly
0:43:42 okay i i yeah exactly so so the thing is
0:43:45 so the thing is here is just um when he
0:43:47 was for example kind of
0:43:49 two females females came in like look at
0:43:52 the end of the day
0:43:52 there's two extremes here like i believe
0:43:54 that that's different
0:43:56 no no no no but i'm trying to make a
0:43:57 point here so i'm not saying this is the
0:43:58 issue what i'm trying to say is
0:43:59 you can see that he is in an awkward
0:44:01 position and he doesn't want to
0:44:03 yeah be there yeah and you can see that
0:44:04 by him leaving and going so sometimes we
0:44:06 have to get better
0:44:07 down it's important to realize that he
0:44:08 actually kind of repented no exactly so
0:44:10 this is where i'm saying i'm
0:44:11 here he had a whole statement exactly he
0:44:13 made a repentance yeah
0:44:15 now i respect that yeah like i don't
0:44:18 agree with
0:44:18 certain stuff uh
0:44:22 but the point is sometimes it's like in
0:44:24 that situation he clearly said
0:44:25 i didn't know this liberation or
0:44:27 libation or whatever you want to call it
0:44:28 yeah
0:44:29 it it whatever the woman was
0:44:32 consecrated no no okay okay okay
0:44:42 he didn't hear it no he might not no no
0:44:44 i'm sorry i have to assume the best in
0:44:45 the concert if somebody's saying
0:44:46 he didn't know and for me to be like oh
0:44:48 that's not good enough your pencils are
0:44:50 good enough etcetera
0:44:52 the lady said it was consecrated water
0:44:54 but he probably didn't hear him
0:44:56 maybe maybe because if somebody's saying
0:44:58 he's a believer and also like they're
0:45:00 just throwing it on the floor
0:45:02 kind of explaining exactly exactly the
0:45:04 thing is to me where the red line was
0:45:06 drawn and once again it comes back to
0:45:07 that well
0:45:08 it's and this goes across board yeah um
0:45:11 it's it's the pleasing the people at the
0:45:13 cost of allah and you see this over and
0:45:16 over again
0:45:17 you know we do not understand the rights
0:45:19 of allah subhanahu talaha
0:45:20 how could you go in front of a priest
0:45:22 and he's doing a cross on your head well
0:45:24 no no no i think to myself if there was
0:45:26 any line
0:45:27 that was crossed aki because if almost a
0:45:30 man is saying that he didn't know
0:45:32 he's publicly repenting we can see that
0:45:33 he's moving away
0:45:35 yeah we need to make it and say you know
0:45:37 what he's not comfortable
0:45:38 he probably regrets it one thing i'll
0:45:39 criticize and say maybe you should have
0:45:40 made this person
0:45:42 repentance when this happened yeah this
0:45:44 not not after two three years
0:45:46 yeah but also but in brother daniel's
0:45:48 defense initially when he raised some
0:45:50 concerns and some pictures people called
0:45:52 him a liar
0:45:53 and until the footage came out okay i
0:45:55 didn't know that yeah
0:45:56 okay so he released some photos first
0:45:58 and yeah you know many people called him
0:45:59 a liar you know and
0:46:01 and and then the footage got released
0:46:02 and then then he was just like oh okay
0:46:05 okay well i see now now brother daniel
0:46:07 he has a right you know why i'll be
0:46:08 honest if i was living in america
0:46:10 and i saw this one you know i said
0:46:11 backbone well
0:46:15 where is your backbone okay we've been
0:46:17 in this certain situation we want to
0:46:18 shake our hands
0:46:19 we could have easily said you know what
0:46:21 yeah let's do this shaking the hands
0:46:22 no no i know i know but we'll see what's
0:46:24 in we don't even do
0:46:26 why is it when it comes to even shaking
0:46:27 hands actually we're like
0:46:29 we're not even going there yeah why
0:46:32 because we know it's not going to stop
0:46:34 there
0:46:34 my hand give me a hug okay hug after hug
0:46:37 god knows where else you're going to
0:46:38 flip and tell me to do
0:46:39 the thing is this then where do we draw
0:46:40 the line so we say prevention is better
0:46:42 than cure and
0:46:43 they are never going to be happy with
0:46:45 you and allah says
0:46:47 in the quran and we know for the hadith
0:46:49 that if you compromise this much they're
0:46:51 going to want more and more and more
0:46:53 and this is what i think i would as a
0:46:56 nobody
0:46:56 convey this to the american dua out
0:46:58 there that if you compromise wallahi
0:47:01 they're just going to ask for more and
0:47:03 more and when look at the degree
0:47:05 that and like this is so disturbing
0:47:07 imagine the rights of allah
0:47:08 yes and somebody there and you feel bad
0:47:11 because a priest is there and saying
0:47:12 come your turn to do the cross and
0:47:14 you're thinking
0:47:16 i don't no no one second uh i don't want
0:47:18 to be rude can you imagine
0:47:20 who the hell are you man i don't want to
0:47:22 be rude i would say
0:47:38 i'm not trying to point the finger at
0:47:39 him and say that that's not this is and
0:47:41 it's fruitless for me to do that that's
0:47:43 what he's already been held to account
0:47:44 and he's already come to
0:47:45 with his repentance whatever for me is
0:47:47 to show
0:47:49 the futility and the weakness
0:47:52 and the unsuccessful nature of this
0:47:55 approach this approach of pandering to
0:47:59 the left wing
0:48:00 going to their protest spearheaded by
0:48:02 them it just
0:48:04 yani the prophet saws
0:48:09 when you allow muslim youth to attend
0:48:14 places like this right where there's
0:48:16 potential for shirk and kufar
0:48:18 and freemix and and and for them to
0:48:20 actually do riddha
0:48:21 by by believing in you know all those
0:48:23 things that were talked about
0:48:24 homosexuality etc
0:48:26 what you're doing is you're just you're
0:48:28 actually there's an opportunity cost
0:48:29 here
0:48:29 the opportunity of cost of activism for
0:48:31 muslims versus
0:48:33 dawah for islam yeah and unfortunately
0:48:36 you've chosen the activism of a dawah
0:48:38 and what that's my concern my concern is
0:48:40 not
0:48:41 the individual person the individual
0:48:43 person him and allah is going to be
0:48:45 just like all of us judge on the day of
0:48:46 judgment we're not talking about the
0:48:48 individual person we're talking about
0:48:50 the strategy that's employed
0:48:51 i genuinely totally believe that it's a
0:48:54 failed strategy
0:48:55 it is a failed strategy compare it with
0:48:57 the uk strategy
0:48:59 it's a completely failed strategy
0:49:01 there's the uk strategy of
0:49:02 muslim conservatives what you call them
0:49:04 orthodox muslims whatever
0:49:06 single issue and they make their
0:49:08 positions clear
0:49:09 look at because at the end of the day
0:49:10 when it comes to the uk general election
0:49:12 most muslims will still generally vote
0:49:14 labor but they had the certain red lines
0:49:16 that the ummah has here yeah they
0:49:17 understand exactly
0:49:18 the rsc was one of those issues
0:49:20 circumcision was one of them issues
0:49:21 halal meat was one of those issues
0:49:23 there's many the same sex marriage but
0:49:24 it was an issue those 500 or olama
0:49:27 did not have to come out and write that
0:49:28 statement when the bill was already
0:49:29 going through
0:49:30 it was to make clear just to let you
0:49:32 know since your pushing has been through
0:49:33 this is the actual position of the
0:49:35 community do you understand
0:49:37 now with regards to you know our advice
0:49:40 to
0:49:41 you know islamic institutes muslim
0:49:43 activists
0:49:44 broadly speaking in the west if you
0:49:46 believe from the consultation of your
0:49:48 scholars
0:49:48 that you know attending these uh
0:49:51 protests
0:49:51 and these kind of things is permissible
0:49:53 and there's a genuine charity-based
0:49:55 muslim
0:49:56 here yeah at least take some
0:49:59 caution and precaution by telling muslim
0:50:01 stay away
0:50:02 stay segregated don't embark on these
0:50:04 things you know even tell the organizers
0:50:07 it's not even just like that it's it's
0:50:09 worse than that you have to
0:50:10 just if you're seeing that these things
0:50:12 are happening right you you
0:50:14 you have to over compensate
0:50:16 theologically
0:50:17 for telling them that this is kuffar
0:50:19 yeah this is sure exactly this is uh
0:50:21 if you this is haram you can't believe
0:50:23 in this you have to you have to
0:50:24 say do you agree that for example
0:50:28 that there can be some kind of working
0:50:30 together but lines have to be drawn yeah
0:50:32 yeah so
0:50:33 you know yeah yeah you're not you're not
0:50:35 saying one bill bro yeah
0:50:36 you know you're not saying that you
0:50:37 shouldn't do this from the get-go worst
0:50:39 thing the foundations you set up on this
0:50:40 floor
0:50:41 in the ideal world i believe that
0:50:43 muslims should lead these i mean if if
0:50:45 we're talking about success of civil
0:50:46 rights movements right in the 60s and
0:50:47 70s
0:50:48 and everyone will know this from history
0:50:51 it was only when the blacks took
0:50:52 their own initiative it was only when
0:50:55 women
0:50:55 the civilization argument or the
0:50:57 feminist movement took their own
0:50:58 initiative absolutely
0:50:59 it's only when people from communities
0:51:01 have said look we don't have objectives
0:51:03 like we're not very clear the way this
0:51:05 should be is that we're coming out with
0:51:07 very clear objectives just like they did
0:51:09 in birmingham that time
0:51:10 it was a good it was only 200 people
0:51:11 300. imagine what happens if we get 5
0:51:14 000.
0:51:14 imagine what happens if we get 5 000
0:51:16 people talking about for example the
0:51:18 week about
0:51:18 allah says if there's how many of you
0:51:20 even though it might be a
0:51:21 contest but still yeah yeah okay come on
0:51:23 let's be here
0:51:25 the idea is this the idea is if a single
0:51:28 issue
0:51:28 is a very clear message yes it's
0:51:30 non-compromising of our principles
0:51:32 yes this is this is different from what
0:51:34 this is what's happening we've seen it
0:51:36 throughout history the women's
0:51:37 emancipation movement in the uk
0:51:38 uh the indian independence movement uh
0:51:40 the anti-apartheid movement the black
0:51:42 civil rights movement the arab spring or
0:51:43 at least what it began as
0:51:45 it was when people took ownership on
0:51:46 their terms to change their
0:51:48 circumstances
0:51:49 and not jumping onto other people's
0:51:50 bandwagons where there will be
0:51:51 ideological compromise in our case
0:51:53 you're not clearly seeing something you
0:51:56 understand yes
0:51:57 and sometimes it brings more harm of
0:51:58 course absolutely you know with some uh
0:52:00 things you know
0:52:01 it's true we have to be careful with
0:52:03 these things but the thing is uh like
0:52:04 again and one thing i want to touch upon
0:52:06 as well
0:52:06 it's very important because sometimes
0:52:07 you know when we're making these
0:52:08 comments and giving our opinions yeah
0:52:09 personally myself i believe in my
0:52:10 opinion yeah i can just give you if it's
0:52:13 a youngster's watching i'm trying to
0:52:14 give the sign to them yeah
0:52:15 because jaquin institute like for
0:52:17 example like
0:52:18 sheikh tahir yeah it's someone that i
0:52:20 look up to yeah somebody who's there
0:52:22 and who's trying to move the
0:52:24 organization inshallah as far as i know
0:52:25 i'm assuming the best
0:52:26 to the right direction yeah and it's
0:52:28 very important for us to also not jump
0:52:29 on the bandwagon because we have some
0:52:30 people to be like
0:52:31 you know well i saw one brother in the
0:52:33 park subhanallah they're saying
0:52:35 um you know my teachers have got a
0:52:36 basira from allah um and
0:52:38 yeah you know the teachers yeah
0:52:40 unqualified teachers here
0:52:41 and and and what is the thing he goes
0:52:43 yeah they knew about yes
0:52:44 and they knew about uh this guy and that
0:52:47 guy it's like me to interview and 40
0:52:48 people and two of them become a real
0:52:49 tabby and i go
0:52:50 what are you talking about we're not
0:52:51 making it no no no no we're not but
0:52:54 the point here is this yeah we need to
0:52:55 know because some people come and say
0:52:56 yeah i knew
0:52:57 see um i knew it i warned about this
0:52:59 five years ago what are you talking
0:53:00 about yeah
0:53:01 we need to be careful because otherwise
0:53:02 what happens is we embarrass ourselves
0:53:03 because we don't have the knowledge
0:53:05 and there are people of knowledge on
0:53:06 board like sheikh tahir
0:53:08 which is a person of knowledge who's
0:53:10 dedicated his life
0:53:12 to knowledge hamdullah who's on board so
0:53:14 with this aspect the only thing that i
0:53:15 want to touch upon is that because i
0:53:16 don't want to go into
0:53:17 yak institute as an organization etc
0:53:20 because if there's a person of knowledge
0:53:21 that actually i'm a nobody to talk in
0:53:22 that context
0:53:23 i'm trying to say and i want to give
0:53:24 that to you right because as a youngster
0:53:25 sometimes we cross our limits and be
0:53:27 like
0:53:27 oh no this is wrong why not talking
0:53:29 about this etc
0:53:30 and what will happen is it backfires and
0:53:32 makes us look embarrassing because what
0:53:33 happened
0:53:34 the smear campaign that happened against
0:53:35 them um and
0:53:37 funnily enough and from like you know
0:53:39 brother imran i'll be very short and i'm
0:53:40 not
0:53:40 for the sake of allah but this was an
0:53:42 issue that was done in public i need to
0:53:43 be addressed in public
0:53:45 of imran come on man
0:53:49 people know you're talking about they
0:53:50 know who i'm talking about yeah trust me
0:53:51 they know what i'm talking about
0:53:54 um
0:54:05 in the public domain but the issue is
0:54:06 this him was found under the bus
0:54:09 he smeared campaign happened here and
0:54:11 guess what sheikh tahir white was used
0:54:13 to um justify in the context of
0:54:16 this is a real scholar he was praised in
0:54:18 such a level that this video was taken
0:54:20 down now why
0:54:20 because now uh shakti write me a
0:54:22 blessing
0:54:24 so sometimes speaking without knowledge
0:54:26 it backfires so there's a lot of people
0:54:28 jumping on the bandwagon
0:54:30 we knew he was but he wasn't the right
0:54:31 path and then he moved there he became
0:54:33 not on the right path
0:54:36 this is the argument that could be made
0:54:37 who was on the right path
0:54:40 no no no no this is not this argument
0:54:42 that's been made and we're saying you
0:54:44 can't
0:54:44 make that like nobody should jump on the
0:54:46 bandwagon and be like you know like
0:54:48 i knew it i i knew this was coming etc
0:54:50 please if you don't
0:54:52 let's know our lane let's stick to i'm
0:54:54 on the hard shoulder and people should
0:54:55 stick to their lane and not come out
0:54:56 with
0:54:57 i knew see i thought i warned you guys
0:54:58 etcetera this is
0:55:00 yeah there's a point of refutation here
0:55:01 which is if if you are willing to do
0:55:03 the refutation i'll you know anyone can
0:55:06 reserve the right to say well this
0:55:07 person has changed their views therefore
0:55:08 i've changed mine about them right
0:55:10 but the point of refutation what you've
0:55:12 done reputation about
0:55:13 that so why not do one about him as well
0:55:15 well would that work
0:55:17 right i feel that we are slightly
0:55:18 digressing yeah we did but but but let's
0:55:20 just pull it back yeah not as tempting
0:55:22 as it is i love digressions yeah
0:55:23 look we get that siasa is a huge gray
0:55:26 area
0:55:27 so see us and generally the politics and
0:55:30 the affairs of
0:55:30 of people is a huge great everyone we
0:55:32 get especially in the last
0:55:34 80 200 years with historical
0:55:37 and monumental changes in the muslim
0:55:39 world and huge communities in the west
0:55:41 that this issue of muslim minority
0:55:44 survival in non-muslim lands
0:55:45 is a new reality and we get that there
0:55:48 are many sculpts
0:55:49 many justifications many uh maxims which
0:55:52 can be applied
0:55:53 in terms of our engagement in our
0:55:55 activism but i guess what we're trying
0:55:56 to
0:55:57 address in this podcast is red lines
0:55:59 that's right
0:56:00 and what enables from a theological
0:56:05 point of view whereas
0:56:06 institutes enabling for those red lines
0:56:08 to either be blurred
0:56:10 or distorted or even become non-existent
0:56:12 so there is a level of accountability
0:56:14 when we have
0:56:15 individuals like linda in the u.s
0:56:18 or others in the uk but most of the
0:56:20 prominent ones are in the us
0:56:21 that they have been praised by scholars
0:56:24 they have been hosted
0:56:25 by islamic institutions they have been
0:56:28 so
0:56:29 so these are these are huge words
0:56:30 because at the end of the day if you are
0:56:32 going to present
0:56:33 the likes of linda and omar and rashford
0:56:37 salman khan as you ex as your role
0:56:40 models for your children
0:56:42 know that when they grow up that they
0:56:43 can adopt these positions and say well
0:56:45 you praised them when we were young
0:56:48 you made us see their posters and their
0:56:49 videos and their lectures and their
0:56:50 talks when we were young
0:56:51 yeah so we to not adopt these things do
0:56:54 you understand so it's a very dangerous
0:56:55 thing that needs to be nipped in the bud
0:56:57 right now
0:56:58 because dangerous friends are ahead for
0:57:00 our users i think what it is is that
0:57:02 we're talking about balances right
0:57:04 on one side of the spectrum you have
0:57:05 people who yeah blurring the lines
0:57:08 or getting rid of them and on the other
0:57:10 side and this is
0:57:11 we're realizing the untenable nature of
0:57:13 this how uh
0:57:14 how much of a failure this is actually
0:57:16 and how much of an embarrassment it
0:57:17 becomes
0:57:18 um we saw this by the way in egypt uh
0:57:21 with the salafi movement
0:57:23 yeah and how by the way this is
0:57:25 brotherly advice
0:57:26 like honestly if you look at history or
0:57:29 the recent history right with with
0:57:30 political
0:57:31 movements that became political and then
0:57:33 they engaged in activism
0:57:35 they got on the wrong side of the
0:57:36 political spectrum and then basically
0:57:38 the dow became
0:57:39 another almost zero egyptian example was
0:57:41 crazy yeah yeah
0:57:43 but this example here of of of a group
0:57:46 i'm not trying to
0:57:46 mention the politics here but what i am
0:57:48 talking about is the dhawa aspect yes
0:57:50 that the dow fizzled the way you know
0:57:52 those people just look at
0:57:54 just do a google trend search
0:57:57 is probably the most he was actually one
0:58:00 of the most searched people
0:58:01 in on the internet in the arabic world
0:58:04 in egypt from i think 2008 to a certain
0:58:07 time period right
0:58:08 and right after the um the the protest
0:58:11 and rise in egypt took place
0:58:14 and he took a certain position um he's
0:58:16 nowhere to be seen now
0:58:18 and the same thing applies with the
0:58:19 salafi movement in egypt
0:58:22 that sometimes when you take certain
0:58:24 political decisions
0:58:26 it destroys your tower and what i worry
0:58:29 about with the american diet
0:58:30 i'll be completely honest is that there
0:58:33 they might actually fall into
0:58:34 learn from the lessons of recent history
0:58:36 they may be like that as well yeah
0:58:38 because where you do something which is
0:58:41 to the lay audience is so clearly
0:58:44 selling out quite frankly right i'm not
0:58:46 saying they're doing that
0:58:47 but if you go in that direction but if
0:58:49 it seems like that eventually the
0:58:50 reality is
0:58:51 what's gonna happen is yeah people are
0:58:52 gonna say well to be honest
0:58:54 we were following you because you
0:58:56 followed islam yes
0:58:57 now we can see even that you're not
0:59:00 following islam therefore we're not
0:59:01 gonna follow you anymore and it's as
0:59:02 simple as that your doubt will become
0:59:03 completely
0:59:04 bankrupt it will break from from within
0:59:07 it will be a
0:59:08 thing of the past just like the
0:59:09 education example on the other side
0:59:11 though
0:59:11 you have these other groups of ultra
0:59:13 conservative people from another
0:59:16 extreme and they're realizing their
0:59:18 vision is not working either quite
0:59:19 frankly
0:59:20 that's so true there's a disconnect
0:59:22 between that and the reality
0:59:24 this is this ain't working and that
0:59:26 ain't working either because
0:59:28 hold on you were you were making
0:59:30 refutations of people you were making
0:59:32 refutations of people yeah
0:59:34 and now you've got you're making
0:59:35 refutations of them because of their
0:59:37 stances of
0:59:38 speaking against the rulers but now
0:59:40 you're hosting them on your program
0:59:43 i'm really sorry this is hypocrisy this
0:59:45 is what
0:59:46 and now i know you were labeling them
0:59:48 before
0:59:49 now you you've got them sitting next to
0:59:51 you speaking to them because an enemy of
0:59:53 the enemy is my friend
0:59:55 so you're using mastaha but wait a
0:59:57 minute you never used muslim before
1:00:02 your jewish prudential tools you would
1:00:04 never be sitting with the
1:00:06 seated this individual if you didn't
1:00:07 have a common enemy so the point is
1:00:09 that's not working
1:00:10 and that's not going to work there's
1:00:12 something in the middle and that's where
1:00:13 you need to have a robust understanding
1:00:15 of islam not just the akam but the usual
1:00:19 when you have the understanding of the
1:00:20 cam then you don't fall into a muslim
1:00:26 or
1:00:34 it comes before the text yeah and and
1:00:37 this was refuted by almost i've written
1:00:39 something on
1:00:40 my website i've written an essay on this
1:00:42 it was also something which was marked
1:00:44 in
1:00:44 yeah yeah what have you become the
1:00:47 hunter does is oh sorry i'm studying
1:00:49 philosophy at the moment
1:00:51 but the idea of and now
1:01:06 that's on one side sorry that's what
1:01:07 you're doing because the nus says you're
1:01:08 not allowed to do
1:01:09 to to support certain things and you're
1:01:11 supporting it
1:01:12 you're using a tophis notion right oh
1:01:15 that's what it is
1:01:16 and on the other side you have these
1:01:17 people who are saying well
1:01:19 muslim doesn't maybe not even exist
1:01:21 maybe they don't even know how to
1:01:23 conceptualize muslims
1:01:25 so but but the truth is there is such a
1:01:27 thing as muslim that
1:01:28 and they have this weird understanding
1:01:29 of tabdiyah and that that
1:01:31 blocks everything for them it stops them
1:01:33 from being able to cooperate with
1:01:34 anybody
1:01:34 right so these people here
1:01:44 let me tell you something a scholar can
1:01:45 ha can be ignorant
1:01:47 and this is called the moroccan
1:01:49 compounded ignorance because when you
1:01:50 actually think you're right
1:01:52 you think you're right but you're wrong
1:01:53 because you've made the wrong kind of
1:01:54 judgment
1:01:55 so the idea is don't go into this side
1:01:57 and don't go into this side we're saying
1:01:58 there's a middle path
1:01:59 and the middle path is i have to answer
1:02:01 my mom's phone one second is my
1:02:02 answering your mother's phone i'm so
1:02:03 sorry because it's recorded too many
1:02:05 times that's fine maybe this is okay
1:02:06 brother and sisters if your mom calls on
1:02:08 the money share them send us on an audio
1:02:09 me
1:02:12 videos there's a point on one sorry yeah
1:02:16 i'm sorry let me just she was calling
1:02:17 someone this side ain't working yeah
1:02:19 because this side
1:02:20 you're embarrassing you're going to
1:02:21 embarrass yourself praising someone like
1:02:23 clinton
1:02:24 because you don't want to confront her
1:02:26 because she's a bit too
1:02:28 forceful for you this position i think
1:02:30 that she's forceful on them she didn't
1:02:31 want to confront her
1:02:32 but on the other side that's the
1:02:34 american dies they need to start
1:02:36 challenges there's not that many
1:02:39 let me tell you on the other side on the
1:02:41 other side you have these people that
1:02:42 are challenging everybody yeah
1:02:44 and and and they're not making friends
1:02:46 with anyone yeah we're saying there's a
1:02:47 middle path
1:02:48 which is don't fall into kenya
1:02:51 which is the quran you don't do any uh
1:02:55 yeah but at the same time no no we're
1:02:57 not we're not trying to cancel people
1:02:59 yeah we're just trying to advise them as
1:03:01 our loving brothers that we want the
1:03:02 best for them it's also important to add
1:03:03 because obviously you guys specifically
1:03:05 highlighted those from the salafi
1:03:06 persuasion
1:03:07 but let's not let's not get twisted by
1:03:09 the brothers yeah there are also those
1:03:10 who come from an ash erie maturity
1:03:13 background that use this guise of
1:03:16 obeying rulers
1:03:18 not adopting you know leftist
1:03:21 ideology that they hide behind this garb
1:03:23 of traditionalism
1:03:24 while supporting backing and bootlegging
1:03:26 tyrants yeah
1:03:28 so we are again reiterating that neither
1:03:31 of the camps
1:03:32 is an ideal thing to be you know
1:03:34 subscribing to do you understand
1:03:35 because i know right now it's a very
1:03:37 polarized uh arena
1:03:39 especially online it's either uh you
1:03:41 know the kind of left-leaning
1:03:42 progressive bulk
1:03:44 imams et cetera et cetera who produce or
1:03:46 is assume that they produce the likes of
1:03:47 linda sarsour
1:03:48 and on the other spectrum you can enable
1:03:50 it or they enable it yeah or on the
1:03:52 other side you have the traditionalists
1:03:53 and they could be sufi or salafi but
1:03:56 they too also have
1:03:57 some issues there as well and is more
1:03:59 apparent in the muslim world
1:04:00 but we see elements of it here in terms
1:04:02 of accepting certain laws
1:04:04 accepting certain oppressive laws
1:04:06 towards muslims and people of color in
1:04:08 the west
1:04:08 what we're saying here there needs to be
1:04:09 a balance and there needs to be middle
1:04:11 ground
1:04:12 i don't think any three of us here and
1:04:13 and many people are watching that we
1:04:15 subscribe to either
1:04:16 we're saying that there are there's
1:04:18 validity involved
1:04:19 and there is clear problems involved but
1:04:21 today obviously we're addressing the
1:04:23 the story issue and that and the
1:04:26 mexican immigration protest because the
1:04:29 the rotten fruits were undeniably
1:04:32 apparent
1:04:32 in those incidents yeah i think it was
1:04:34 productive broadcast man
1:04:36 we're coming from a place where we want
1:04:38 to say to people that we're all brothers
1:04:40 but because we love you whoever you may
1:04:42 be that's watching this podcast
1:04:44 because we love you as brothers and
1:04:46 sisters we thought it be
1:04:48 productive to have this discussion with
1:04:50 you not with the intent
1:04:52 of trying to harm you or to detract from
1:04:55 your personal
1:04:56 from your personality or from your
1:04:57 status but actually to bring you closer
1:04:59 to
1:05:00 maybe a a like the quran says
1:05:04 you know
1:05:12 so this podcast was not intended to try
1:05:14 and harm anybody or
1:05:16 to try and do tafsir or take fear or to
1:05:19 cancel anybody but instead it was just
1:05:21 productive advice and
1:05:22 discussions about strategies and quite
1:05:24 frankly
1:05:25 these strategies that are being employed
1:05:28 in terms of activism
1:05:29 need to be revised it's good that we've
1:05:31 tried certain things
1:05:32 but we know now i think quite clearly
1:05:35 what does
1:05:36 not work it doesn't work to be
1:05:38 completely quietest
1:05:40 and not cooperative and it does not work
1:05:42 either
1:05:43 to be because those individuals who are
1:05:46 quietest are now cooperating
1:05:47 right and we're seeing the untenability
1:05:50 of that position
1:05:52 and on the other side it doesn't make
1:05:54 sense to be
1:05:56 uh completely blurring of the lines and
1:05:58 let's make allegiances with anyone
1:06:00 and all those things because we're
1:06:02 seeing as you've mentioned the rotten
1:06:04 fruits of that
1:06:05 as well and the and the and the truth i
1:06:07 think is somewhere
1:06:08 in the middle even though that's usually
1:06:10 a fallacy but i think in this case
1:06:12 it's reality but until next time
1:06:16 wait what well so
1:06:26 you know we were the most humiliated
1:06:27 people and allah honored us through
1:06:28 islam
1:06:29 you know if we seek honor other than
1:06:31 islam we'll be humiliated again
1:06:33 this doesn't this encapsulates the
1:06:35 entire issue here
1:06:36 you we as an um whether in the west in
1:06:39 the muslim world as a community
1:06:41 you know micro macro wherever you want
1:06:42 to talk it the more we water down and
1:06:44 compromise the deen of islam yeah i need
1:06:46 the clear issues
1:06:47 yes they're clear it's not the great
1:06:48 issues the clear issues once we start
1:06:50 compromising on this
1:06:51 there's going to be nothing left for us
1:06:52 in this life or the hereafter and this
1:06:54 is
1:06:54 a very very scary afterthought which we
1:06:56 hope that listeners and viewers
1:06:59 and like i was going to say the same
1:07:01 thing as well and while i that's what it
1:07:02 seems it just seems like
1:07:03 that brother and sister in america
1:07:04 dwight um
1:07:06 with all due respect well it's just we
1:07:08 need to go a bit of a bit of a backbone
1:07:09 you know
1:07:10 we've had scenarios where you know like
1:07:12 i said even shaking hands something so
1:07:13 you can call it minor
1:07:15 but we refuse to even give that because
1:07:17 we know once they take a finger then
1:07:19 it's gonna be an arm and they're gonna
1:07:20 they're just gonna want you
1:07:21 so brothers and sisters if you're
1:07:22 watching this in america please study
1:07:24 your religion well
1:07:25 you don't study religion when you're hit
1:07:26 with these things you're just all over
1:07:28 the place you know well i
1:07:29 was speaking to one guy he goes oh i've
1:07:30 got dao someone ex-muslim i said we're
1:07:32 studying philosophy that's how long
1:07:34 you've been studying about three years
1:07:35 say how long have you been studying
1:07:36 islam oh not really okay how do you
1:07:38 if you're not going to be a mustard
1:07:39 there's going to be a murtard no no no
1:07:41 if you're not going to be murdered
1:07:44 you're studying free as philosophy you
1:07:45 know you're not you're not yeah well
1:07:48 it's this is really annoying because
1:07:49 what we see is people please azaki yeah
1:07:52 we see people
1:07:52 in the duat in america and they're just
1:07:54 trying to please the people
1:07:56 and like you said while his success is
1:07:58 from allah if you think
1:08:00 you're going to join forces with lgbtq2
1:08:02 all of them put together while
1:08:04 you you don't think success is in your
1:08:06 hand and in the um
1:08:07 in surah allah talks
1:08:19 this is amazing the battle of butter and
1:08:21 the battle of hunei in the battle of
1:08:22 badr there were 300 and something in
1:08:24 number against an army of a thousand
1:08:25 in the battle of hunei and i think in
1:08:28 the tafsir talks about abu bakr allah
1:08:30 said that today no army can defeat us
1:08:32 yeah and allah says you turn back on
1:08:34 your heels
1:08:35 yeah brothers and sisters you know what
1:08:36 that shows you it shows you success is
1:08:38 not
1:08:39 in numbers success is not how many
1:08:41 people we know oh if we come and join
1:08:42 photos with this guy and that guy
1:08:44 our life if allah is going to humiliate
1:08:45 you you're going to be humiliated in a
1:08:46 big number that's what's going to happen
1:08:48 so please have a backbone and inshallah
1:08:50 study your religion inshallah and
1:08:52 success comes from
1:08:53 allah while i put this and drew this in
1:08:55 your head and look
1:08:56 the rights of allah subhanallah i'll
1:08:59 emphasize on this the thing that
1:09:00 disturbed me most about that thing
1:09:02 was the brothers and sisters getting a
1:09:03 cross on their head or something along
1:09:05 those lines
1:09:05 were like it was unbelievable why i'm so
1:09:08 sorry
1:09:09 there's a priest there and i know i'm
1:09:11 going to run i'm so sorry about life we
1:09:12 have to emphasize on this
1:09:14 there's a priest that will lie come in
1:09:15 saying come you're next we're going to
1:09:16 do a cross
1:09:17 can you imagine and you're there
1:09:19 thinking oh you know how embarrassing me
1:09:21 if i said no
1:09:22 who cares actually one lie who cares
1:09:25 well like please inshallah learn the
1:09:26 rights of allah and put it first
1:09:28 inshallah
1:09:29 um until next time as we finish your
1:09:32 podcast like