Sapient Voices #2: Abdullah Al-Andalusi - The Dangers of Post-Modernism & Neo-Marxism for Muslims (2022-06-01) #

0:00:00 [Music]
0:00:08 and sisters and friends and welcome to
0:00:10 another episode of sapient voices
0:00:14 a podcast by sapience institute
0:00:17 that aims to give
0:00:19 platform to voices of wisdom and also
0:00:23 wants to facilitate discussion in order
0:00:25 for reason to prevail my name is hamza
0:00:29 andrews so this and with me i have our
0:00:31 very dear brother abdullah al andalusi
0:00:34 and before i let him talk i'm going to
0:00:37 basically
0:00:39 give you a background
0:00:40 concerning the brother a little bit
0:00:42 about who he is
0:00:44 because i think it's very important for
0:00:45 everybody to be aware of his work and
0:00:48 his websites and his courses and we're
0:00:49 going to be promoting all of that in the
0:00:51 next few moments because i really
0:00:53 believe this brother is
0:00:55 my teacher and he's an asset for the
0:00:57 community alhamdulillah allah preserve
0:00:59 him and protect him so abdullah al
0:01:01 andalusi is an international speaker
0:01:03 thinker and intellectual activist for
0:01:05 islam and muslim affairs he's an
0:01:07 instructor and head of the department of
0:01:09 occidentology at the quran institute and
0:01:12 co-founder of the discussion forum the
0:01:15 muslim debate initiative he co-founded
0:01:19 this in 2009 and it's a forum that
0:01:22 promotes open dialogue and critical
0:01:24 debate between thinkers academics
0:01:26 politicians
0:01:27 and public speakers of all backgrounds
0:01:31 abdullah's work involves explaining and
0:01:32 demonstrating birational argument the
0:01:35 intellectual proofs for the islamic
0:01:37 belief system and promoting the islamic
0:01:39 way of life and islamic solutions for
0:01:41 contemporary problems on a personal note
0:01:44 abdullah takes islamic opinions from the
0:01:46 classical sunni schools of thought
0:01:50 he is a river to islam and he has spoken
0:01:54 in many community centers universities
0:01:56 all around the world colleges and has
0:01:59 appeared numerous occasions on various
0:02:02 programs tv radio including bbc itv bbc
0:02:07 arabic bbc radio al jazeera and much
0:02:09 more
0:02:10 he has also engaged in a number of
0:02:12 debates with atheists secularists
0:02:15 agnostics liberals and christians on a
0:02:17 variety of topics from theology to
0:02:20 political philosophy and i have never
0:02:23 seen our beloved brother abdullah dulusi
0:02:26 ever lose a debate or a discussion
0:02:30 and i don't really mean that
0:02:32 intellectually but also mean that with
0:02:33 his manners and with his approach to
0:02:36 these discussions he is what you would
0:02:39 call a muslim gentleman alhamdulillah so
0:02:42 brother abdullah for coming on board but
0:02:45 i was going to say maybe you haven't
0:02:46 seen enough of them
0:03:03 um this i was very interested to talk
0:03:05 about this because obviously this is
0:03:07 saying
0:03:08 concerning a passion of mine which is
0:03:09 political philosophy and debating
0:03:11 political philosophy and
0:03:13 um
0:03:14 and i do i have done debates on this
0:03:15 topic and i mentioned you before and i'm
0:03:17 going to embarrass you again which is um
0:03:19 one of the many inspirations i think for
0:03:21 many of the duart uh who do engage in
0:03:23 political philosophy was uh you're one
0:03:26 of the first pioneers that actually
0:03:28 engaged political philosophy in
0:03:30 western political philosophy in the uk
0:03:32 uh you debated on um secular liberalism
0:03:36 uh i know previously people talk about
0:03:37 capitalism the economic system but you
0:03:39 actually said let's grab the ball by the
0:03:41 horns and talk about the actuator and
0:03:42 the central basis of it debating a
0:03:45 liberal academic and i think that's um
0:03:47 has inspired many duarts ever since to
0:03:50 be more confident and to go out there
0:03:52 and to engage with this topic because it
0:03:54 informs more of the way of life
0:03:57 currently around the world more than um
0:03:59 then discussions on things like let's
0:04:01 say christianity for example which isn't
0:04:02 is ever diminishing in its in his
0:04:04 influence so uh yeah so barakallahu
0:04:06 feeker for that and yeah and again thank
0:04:07 you for inviting me again on to to talk
0:04:09 about this one of my one of my passions
0:04:11 yeah
0:04:12 bro i mean it's a very important topic
0:04:15 and the reason it's important because
0:04:17 not only does it have a huge influence
0:04:19 in the public and social
0:04:22 square
0:04:23 but also
0:04:25 a lot of people who seem to adopt the
0:04:28 islamic worldview or internalize the
0:04:30 islamic worldview and understand and
0:04:31 believe in the islamic worldview they're
0:04:33 starting to adopt some of these
0:04:35 false alien ideologies which may be
0:04:37 based on
0:04:39 incoherent epistemic and metaphysical
0:04:41 assumptions and the other thing the
0:04:43 other reason is very important and this
0:04:44 is personal to me
0:04:45 is that many of the people who try to
0:04:47 share islam academically and
0:04:49 intellectually which is one of the main
0:04:51 you know goals of sapience institute is
0:04:54 that we don't even know much about this
0:04:56 like if you were to ask me to write an
0:04:57 essay on post-modernism from my memory
0:05:00 or an essay on critical race theory
0:05:03 i would have no clue and this is coming
0:05:06 from someone who has an academic
0:05:07 background in philosophy i just don't
0:05:09 it's not my area right
0:05:11 so
0:05:12 i'm going to be treating this as a
0:05:15 teacher-student scenario bro and i'm not
0:05:17 saying it out kind of humility of
0:05:19 genuine passion because i want to know
0:05:21 about this i want to go out there's all
0:05:23 in the
0:05:24 front line with yourself and join arms
0:05:26 if you like and basically say look you
0:05:28 know
0:05:29 we're not we're not we don't want to be
0:05:30 aggressive or we're not against anyone
0:05:32 from that perspective but we're going to
0:05:35 be positively assertive by showing that
0:05:37 your ideas are incoherent and they're
0:05:39 based on falsity i want to do that too
0:05:41 but at the moment
0:05:43 you know i have to as you know the
0:05:44 chinese say empty or teacup right and i
0:05:47 have to now just become a learner so
0:05:50 what we're going to be discussing which
0:05:51 i probably alluded to it right now
0:05:53 brothers and sisters is we're going to
0:05:54 be discussing
0:05:56 post-modernism
0:05:57 and related concepts
0:05:59 what is post-modernism
0:06:01 what is critical race theory how do we
0:06:04 address these top these ideas and how do
0:06:07 we use it in the context of sharing and
0:06:08 defending islam academically and
0:06:10 intellectually so from the perspective
0:06:12 of a learner bro i think the first
0:06:14 question we want you to answer is
0:06:16 what is the difference between
0:06:18 modernism and post-modernism
0:06:22 okay
0:06:23 so first and foremost um uh
0:06:26 don't beat yourself up about it too much
0:06:27 concerning these are um left
0:06:30 left left wing ideas um and i'll mention
0:06:34 specifically what i mean
0:06:35 uh with reference to that because i know
0:06:37 postmodern is actually a very broad term
0:06:39 and it refers to both art artistic
0:06:41 movements
0:06:42 um as well as a
0:06:44 huge sway of uh
0:06:46 different philosophical and ethical um
0:06:50 standpoints you could say
0:06:52 but the issue is that i mean i think
0:06:54 what you've dealt with mostly in the
0:06:55 past is the um the main um
0:06:58 the most the political philosophy that
0:07:00 has the hegemony of the current world um
0:07:03 a greek word uh is it hegemonia i think
0:07:06 hegemony is that the greek pronunciation
0:07:08 um the hegemony of um
0:07:10 uh
0:07:11 which i think comes from the term um if
0:07:13 you mean king or whatever have you the
0:07:15 sovereign ideologies liberalism
0:07:17 secular liberalism and that is by far
0:07:20 the ruling ideology in the the west and
0:07:23 also
0:07:25 in
0:07:25 in other countries which the west has
0:07:27 colonized and spread his ideologies too
0:07:29 and many muslims um have succumbed to
0:07:32 that
0:07:33 ideology currently because it's the
0:07:35 dominant ideology and so they've even
0:07:37 sometimes subconsciously succumbed to
0:07:38 many of the ideas and values in that
0:07:40 ideology these its assumptions and
0:07:42 presumptions
0:07:43 so that's the dominant one so this is
0:07:45 we're not really talking about
0:07:47 um an ideologies which are
0:07:49 the the most dominant currently or at
0:07:51 least politically the most dominant uh
0:07:53 but we are talking about ones which are
0:07:55 a kind of sister move sister movement to
0:07:58 i was going to say the dark side of um
0:08:00 western enlightenment but
0:08:02 arguably it's all the dark side so the
0:08:04 dark and the darker side i suppose and
0:08:07 there there's
0:08:08 these two competing forces in western
0:08:11 enlightenment that have been there since
0:08:13 the outset and this is one of the
0:08:14 competing forces which we will which has
0:08:17 now manifested in what you might call as
0:08:19 um
0:08:21 uh post-modernist movement so to answer
0:08:23 your question
0:08:24 uh kind of more you know specifically
0:08:27 um
0:08:28 so
0:08:29 the question is really you know what do
0:08:30 we mean by modernism and you've
0:08:32 encountered many of the dif of the kind
0:08:33 of effects
0:08:34 uh on symptoms of modernism itself so
0:08:37 modernism was basically a term okay it
0:08:42 usually applies to artistic movements uh
0:08:44 from the turn of the 19th century to mid
0:08:46 20th century but it it also uses a
0:08:49 capsule for the various ideas that kind
0:08:52 of came out of the west post
0:08:54 enlightenment so one of them is that
0:08:56 there's the rejection of religion and
0:08:58 god as being the centrality of
0:09:00 uh epistemology or of um of morals of
0:09:04 ethics
0:09:05 and also out of investigating the world
0:09:07 so it's no longer a god-centered or
0:09:09 god-centric
0:09:11 uh universe upon which investigations
0:09:13 will be made it'd be a more
0:09:15 human-centric and so from that the
0:09:18 second kind of point of modernism is
0:09:20 that man
0:09:21 collectively speaking
0:09:23 um is the measure of all things is the
0:09:26 universal measure of all things so now
0:09:28 all things will be measured by its
0:09:30 utility uh and its perspective to human
0:09:34 beings not in
0:09:36 uh
0:09:36 not relative to a higher
0:09:38 being or power
0:09:40 um thirdly you could say modernism holds
0:09:43 the belief that the world
0:09:45 is objective obviously that it is um
0:09:48 it can be objectively understood outside
0:09:50 of the mind that we can all agree on it
0:09:53 uh it's universally outside there's
0:09:55 something there that we can all observe
0:09:56 we can have a relative
0:09:58 um
0:09:59 uh we can have relative trust and
0:10:01 fidelity in our observations of it and
0:10:03 we can mutually agree and more
0:10:05 importantly that it can be accurately
0:10:07 represented
0:10:09 uh through words through mathematical
0:10:11 models and even through art
0:10:13 as well
0:10:15 which i'll i'll get into some examples
0:10:17 of that as a modernist um phrase now you
0:10:19 might say uh again uh you know
0:10:23 is that a bad thing to believe that
0:10:24 there's an objective reality outside
0:10:26 ourselves and that we can understand it
0:10:27 through words and through mathematical
0:10:29 models uh no but when that is mixed with
0:10:33 the idea that
0:10:34 uh humans are the foundation of
0:10:37 measuring reality and reality itself is
0:10:39 not founded upon anything else um
0:10:41 necessarily
0:10:42 which you might call
0:10:44 uh a type of naturalism or physicalism
0:10:47 um then then it becomes more insidious
0:10:50 um another point would be public
0:10:52 morality so the idea that public
0:10:53 morality is collectively decidable
0:10:56 through human reason
0:10:59 which is the whole basis for the
0:11:00 enlightenment so the enlightenment is
0:11:02 the discovery of materialist political
0:11:04 philosophies ethics which can be deduced
0:11:06 from pure purely from human reason um
0:11:09 and with only only reference to human
0:11:11 reason
0:11:13 this objective uh reality this objective
0:11:16 world that we can observe
0:11:18 uh lastly the idea that the laws of the
0:11:20 universe will also operate on human
0:11:22 beings and so
0:11:24 just like you might observe evolution um
0:11:27 in the universe they might say so things
0:11:29 change over time um and you you get uh
0:11:32 you know viruses pick up mutations and
0:11:34 such microevolution things like this um
0:11:36 this idea of
0:11:38 change and and uh progress a narrative
0:11:41 of progress would also apply to human
0:11:43 beings so humans are on this inevitable
0:11:46 journey to a great wonderful uh future
0:11:49 uh of progress is inevitable outcome of
0:11:53 a sophisticated and happy and
0:11:55 glorious future brought on by
0:11:59 progress by the progress of the human
0:12:01 mind and then that manifesting
0:12:03 manifesting itself in technology and
0:12:05 industry and of course uh the the last
0:12:08 you could say foundational principle of
0:12:09 modernism uh what is new is better
0:12:13 so why is it always new is better now
0:12:15 some of this stuff you might think well
0:12:17 it's not too far away from the islamic
0:12:19 perspective where we think that yeah you
0:12:21 can model the world uh on on words and
0:12:24 mathematical models and so on and so
0:12:25 forth uh yes that that's true but the
0:12:28 other things are very um a very what you
0:12:30 might call was a materialistic based on
0:12:32 physical assumptions but on metaphysical
0:12:34 naturalism as it might always is called
0:12:36 and in in the arts because art is really
0:12:39 just the expression of of of culture so
0:12:42 this is a culture phenomenon this is a
0:12:44 philosophical phenomenon and it has its
0:12:46 corresponding expression in art now
0:12:48 there is a variety of movements which
0:12:49 are all part of the modernist um kind of
0:12:53 modernist movements you call the
0:12:54 modernism the modest mindset or
0:12:56 or
0:12:57 mindset so you have
0:12:59 uh you have up until the 19th you know
0:13:02 19th century the idea of realism so they
0:13:04 wanted to make uh pictures photo
0:13:06 realistic almost to actually capture
0:13:08 exactly what really what we were
0:13:10 observing but then nissa actually then
0:13:12 changed towards the
0:13:13 uh the yeah i know realism might not be
0:13:16 considered to be modernist or do i
0:13:17 consider it to be a modern modernist
0:13:19 itself because one of the drivers of
0:13:20 realism was it was to create
0:13:22 photorealistic on almost uh pictures of
0:13:25 of the observer world because before
0:13:27 cameras were invented of course so
0:13:28 people wanted to represent reality
0:13:30 accurately as possible but then you had
0:13:32 others who thought we can improve on
0:13:33 this because not everything is captured
0:13:35 in a painting
0:13:37 and so you had um the rise of the
0:13:40 cubists who thought that look you know
0:13:43 an image or any object can be
0:13:45 appreciated from different angles and
0:13:47 perspectives but you've got a
0:13:49 two-dimensional canvas what how do you
0:13:51 solve this problem and so what they
0:13:52 would uh what qubits endeavoured to do
0:13:55 was to present multiple parts of the
0:13:57 object
0:13:59 at the same time on a two-dimensional
0:14:01 canvas which is why you get these very
0:14:03 if you see cubist
0:14:04 paintings they look a bit strange
0:14:06 obviously to us because they're not
0:14:07 meant to be photorealistic but they
0:14:08 present different sides of the object
0:14:10 simultaneously
0:14:12 on a on a two-dimensional canvas that
0:14:14 was the perspective wanted to capture
0:14:16 before we could maybe
0:14:17 improve
0:14:18 representation of reality by capturing
0:14:20 more of it more accurately uh by
0:14:23 different viewpoints of the object um
0:14:25 all captured on the same others from the
0:14:26 same perspective
0:14:28 expressionists um
0:14:31 uh looked at uh the object and the
0:14:34 emotions it evokes they want to discuss
0:14:35 the object uh and how uh how it can
0:14:38 actually convey the emotions not just
0:14:40 rely on the observer of the painting to
0:14:43 react emotionally to an image but rather
0:14:46 that they think well maybe this object
0:14:48 evokes a certain response so you know
0:14:50 the famous for example painting the
0:14:51 screen painting the one that someone on
0:14:53 the boat holding you know screaming that
0:14:55 that famous scream if you know what i'm
0:14:57 referring to would be an expressionist
0:14:59 type of painting
0:15:01 so they thought that we can we wanted to
0:15:03 capture that aspect of reality which is
0:15:05 also the emotion that it evokes but you
0:15:07 also had impressionists who wanted to
0:15:10 capture for example objects and um how
0:15:14 they how they are dynamically changing
0:15:16 in through colors and light so for
0:15:18 example you know you might be looking at
0:15:20 let's say uh a tree in the middle of a
0:15:22 field and it has a certain uh glimmer to
0:15:25 it from the reflection of the sun that's
0:15:27 certain position in in the sky and then
0:15:29 of course as the sun changes all the
0:15:30 wind blows uh it it you know it it will
0:15:33 change slightly to reflect the different
0:15:36 position of the sun or uh or the wind
0:15:38 blowing through it or so on so the
0:15:39 impressionist really wanted to capture
0:15:41 uh these kind of objects um uh the the
0:15:43 the light the the change of light the
0:15:45 change of colors that is is involved in
0:15:48 it
0:15:49 over time in a way incorporating time as
0:15:52 well as space into um their their
0:15:54 pictures so these are what they were
0:15:56 trying to do futurism try to capture
0:15:58 more dynamic movements so you they have
0:16:00 they draw a picture of a dog and the
0:16:02 legs just flapping um like a blur to
0:16:05 encompass movement more more dynamic
0:16:07 movement so that was basically um in a
0:16:10 nutshell that's what modernism was
0:16:13 now post-modernism is
0:16:16 take is the next step you could say
0:16:18 taking this to the next step uh through
0:16:20 the simple realization realization of
0:16:22 some things which is
0:16:25 i know as muslims we usually have
0:16:27 debates with atheists and you've had
0:16:28 debates of atheists those are debates of
0:16:29 atheists i've seen um where you discuss
0:16:32 about morality what is the basis for
0:16:34 morality what is the you know as you as
0:16:36 you put it a an objective you know
0:16:38 conceptual anchor formality for the idea
0:16:40 of good and bad you know
0:16:42 it would be subjective it would be it
0:16:44 would be according to whoever's whims or
0:16:46 desires if it's not based on something
0:16:47 outside ourselves but then the universe
0:16:49 obviously doesn't have it doesn't you
0:16:51 can't find good and bad in a microscope
0:16:52 or a telescope
0:16:54 so
0:16:55 um so if there's no if you don't believe
0:16:57 in god the argument goes then morality
0:16:59 is is just fluid there is no inherent
0:17:03 good and bad in anything per se
0:17:05 so the post-modernists uh took this this
0:17:08 consequence of removing god from the
0:17:10 equation to the next degree
0:17:13 which is that um humans
0:17:17 believing that they can even there is
0:17:19 something called objective truth even
0:17:22 in both language and the external world
0:17:25 is also um is also an illusion um
0:17:30 imposed by
0:17:31 by you know a false consciousness
0:17:34 right so um they just took that to the
0:17:36 next step i mean i suppose nietzsche was
0:17:39 sometimes taken as the
0:17:40 as the epitome of elucidating that
0:17:43 perspective
0:17:44 but they so i'll i'll give you the kind
0:17:46 of the the points of modern
0:17:47 post-modernism and and you can compare
0:17:49 it to modernism so post-modernism moves
0:17:52 away from the belief that um
0:17:55 man collectively is the universal
0:17:57 measurable things
0:17:58 into the individual
0:18:00 is the measure of all things
0:18:03 right because there's multiple
0:18:04 individuals and they all could have they
0:18:05 will have their own different measures
0:18:07 of of all things and so and each of
0:18:09 these individual measures is just as
0:18:11 valid as any other
0:18:13 um so some people say a type of
0:18:14 relativism but the funny thing with
0:18:16 nietzsche was
0:18:17 um nietzsche didn't believe that all all
0:18:20 perspectives were equal he thought his
0:18:23 perspective was better than anybody
0:18:25 else's right he'd say that you know that
0:18:27 that he doesn't really give any value to
0:18:28 anyone there are other people's
0:18:30 perspectives he doesn't care about that
0:18:31 he cares about his perspective so he's
0:18:33 called perspectivism which is the the
0:18:35 name for that particular you may be a
0:18:38 sub type of relativism so the individual
0:18:40 now is the measure of all things not
0:18:42 societies
0:18:43 the next kind of point of post-modernity
0:18:46 is that belief that the the belief that
0:18:48 the world is subjective to the um to the
0:18:51 observer to any observer and cannot
0:18:53 objectively and accurately be
0:18:55 represented through words
0:18:57 mathematical models or art
0:19:00 now it doesn't mean there's no
0:19:02 external world to humans that's not what
0:19:05 post-modernists say and that's a common
0:19:07 misconception they simply say that you
0:19:09 cannot interpret it
0:19:11 with a definitive
0:19:12 objective accurate universal
0:19:14 interpretation that applies to anybody
0:19:16 else
0:19:17 whatever interpretation of the universe
0:19:19 you have that's yours they'll say that
0:19:21 the universe is or the external world is
0:19:24 has infinite interpretations that's what
0:19:26 they'll say and likewise um
0:19:29 uh most postmodernist thinkers would say
0:19:31 that even language and texts can have
0:19:34 close to infinite interpretations it
0:19:37 doesn't matter what the author even
0:19:38 intended what matters is uh how you
0:19:41 engage with the text what it means to
0:19:43 you how you want to use any text you
0:19:45 read
0:19:46 and we can discuss that a bit more about
0:19:48 where they got that thinking from but
0:19:50 that's just to summarize another point
0:19:52 is they will say that public morality
0:19:53 morality uh is not um
0:19:57 collectively decidable by society but is
0:19:59 individually decidable and not through
0:20:02 reason because you can't trust reason
0:20:04 because reason doesn't give you a
0:20:05 hundred percent accurate understanding
0:20:06 of reality itself so how can you use it
0:20:08 to to decide morality instead they say
0:20:11 simply that uh your your morality the
0:20:14 humanity you engage or you use in public
0:20:16 is individually decidable through human
0:20:19 feeling and desire
0:20:21 right so that's the ultimate source of
0:20:23 um of every individual's morality
0:20:26 whether they're in the public space or
0:20:27 in the private space too actually
0:20:29 uh last well uh third to lastly the laws
0:20:33 of the universe
0:20:34 um
0:20:35 they would say it's it's chaotic well
0:20:37 yeah
0:20:38 you might say there are laws of universe
0:20:40 you could deduce that if you'd like to
0:20:42 say they'd say it but the universe is
0:20:44 chaos and human behavior is likewise
0:20:48 chaos and so they reject meta-narratives
0:20:51 they reject ideology or historicism
0:20:54 which was a very famous socialist or
0:20:56 marxist view about a historical
0:20:59 narrative even liberals who believe in
0:21:02 them they call it the wiggish
0:21:04 concept of history
0:21:05 early liberals who believe there was
0:21:07 inevitable progress towards liberalism
0:21:09 and freedom and happiness and joy they
0:21:11 reject all that there is no law you can
0:21:14 derive about human history and and human
0:21:16 nature and of course likewise they will
0:21:18 also reject that humans have
0:21:21 a discernible
0:21:23 fixed nature a fitra they would reject
0:21:25 that they would say
0:21:27 that's why they're called
0:21:28 anti-essentialists whereas the
0:21:29 modernists believe that humans did have
0:21:32 human nature and you could uh observe it
0:21:34 and deduce it by observation scientific
0:21:36 observation whatever that means with
0:21:38 regards to that but post-modernists are
0:21:39 reject they're anti-essentialists they
0:21:41 don't think there is any inherent nature
0:21:44 in human beings
0:21:45 they don't believe that progress must
0:21:47 necessarily occur and they certainly
0:21:49 don't believe that what is new is
0:21:50 necessarily better and they point to the
0:21:54 excesses of world war ii concentration
0:21:56 camps stalin all those things they point
0:21:59 to they say that at the nuclear bomb
0:22:02 they point all those examples and they
0:22:04 say um look look at those examples
0:22:07 doesn't that show you that the future
0:22:09 can be terrifying can be worse in fact
0:22:11 they say that the enlightenment um has
0:22:14 actually failed to deliver happiness to
0:22:16 humans we're actually more controlled
0:22:18 more surveilled and more oppressed more
0:22:21 suppressed more depressed
0:22:23 than ever
0:22:24 um before that's will be their argument
0:22:26 and so anyone who
0:22:29 uh has gripes with liberalism or the
0:22:31 liberal um dominant ideology will tend
0:22:34 to be gravitate towards this um
0:22:37 this uh
0:22:38 the little sister of um of the liberal
0:22:42 stream of the enlightenment because
0:22:43 deeming it to be um the the only way to
0:22:46 address the the problems in the modern
0:22:48 world because these this seems like to
0:22:50 be a critique of the modern world
0:22:52 created by liberalism and or other
0:22:54 modernist ideologies and so anyway in a
0:22:56 nutshell um that's that's modernism
0:22:58 post-modernism but in art modernism
0:23:01 post-modernism um
0:23:03 uh kind of highlights surrealism so for
0:23:06 example the famous
0:23:07 the the very famous um uh art piece you
0:23:10 know there was a it was in french where
0:23:12 there was a pipe in this and it said
0:23:13 underneath this is not a pipe i don't
0:23:14 know if you know that know that one
0:23:16 um it's quite it should be quite famous
0:23:18 um they
0:23:19 that would be the kind of art what they
0:23:21 produce and there's a reason they
0:23:22 produce that kind of artwork they want
0:23:24 to show you that representations of art
0:23:26 are not real life they're not reality um
0:23:30 and you should be you should realize
0:23:31 that they're just simulations of reality
0:23:33 they're a false illusion that's cast
0:23:35 over your eyes um
0:23:37 pop art very post modernist where they
0:23:40 show you that basically
0:23:41 basically that what you call art today
0:23:43 is a mishmash of just previous cultural
0:23:45 products in the past and there's nothing
0:23:48 really new anymore
0:23:49 there's reasons why they have this how
0:23:51 they say all these arguments but i'm
0:23:52 just kind of
0:23:53 summarizing giving some examples um so
0:23:56 yeah so post modernism is is not about
0:23:58 trying to represent reality anymore it's
0:24:00 really about um
0:24:02 the the human uh human desires and whims
0:24:06 and the expression of those desires and
0:24:08 whims and the equality of all human
0:24:11 individuals in their own morality their
0:24:14 own interpretation of reality and the
0:24:16 undecidability of anyone to anything
0:24:18 that approaches an objective
0:24:20 interpretation of reality so anyway
0:24:22 that's a nutshell
0:24:24 whoa whoa whoa there's there's a lot
0:24:26 there there
0:24:28 well the first thing that comes to my
0:24:30 mind from a learning perspective is
0:24:32 post modernism seems to be
0:24:35 a kind of metaphysical lens
0:24:38 or justification
0:24:40 to justify
0:24:42 shahawat blame where the desires bro
0:24:45 like like i know this sounds quite crude
0:24:47 but just from a kind of islamic
0:24:49 spiritual perspective he's like there's
0:24:51 a bunch of thinkers that probably just
0:24:53 thought about how do we
0:24:55 justify
0:24:57 you know the kind of beastial lowly
0:24:59 desires that we have to manifest
0:25:01 themselves in any way that they want
0:25:03 without feeling guilty that's what it
0:25:05 sounds like to me
0:25:06 uh we don't live in a moral universe i
0:25:08 mean you mentioned nietzsche
0:25:11 for me it was quite prophetic i don't
0:25:13 mean that in a
0:25:14 islamic or religious or theological
0:25:16 context i mean it that he had an insight
0:25:20 and he you know when he said god is dead
0:25:22 obviously people misquote him he didn't
0:25:23 really mean it from a kind of
0:25:25 ontological perspective he meant god is
0:25:27 dead in the hearts of human beings and
0:25:29 he realized that we would have to now
0:25:31 become the source of our own morality
0:25:33 and then he realized
0:25:36 each person is going to be their own god
0:25:38 if you like and then he kind of raised
0:25:41 this kind of philosophical question or
0:25:42 moral question i have my values where
0:25:45 are yours
0:25:46 and that is exactly where
0:25:48 post-modernism lies i think because now
0:25:50 the individual it becomes sovereign to
0:25:53 that degree
0:25:54 the individual is like the basis for
0:25:56 everything i decide that i'm going to be
0:25:59 one of these 16 genders then that's my
0:26:02 truth right and the whole of society has
0:26:04 to support that and at the same time
0:26:07 hollow society has support maybe someone
0:26:09 else who has a truth that is counter to
0:26:11 that and then you get the chaos right
0:26:13 now the point that i want to raise this
0:26:16 very quickly before we continue with the
0:26:18 next main question that i had is
0:26:20 what about this whole thing about
0:26:21 hierarchy hierarchy because
0:26:24 where do the kind of discussions
0:26:26 concerning hierarchy start with regards
0:26:28 to post-modernism now i'm getting the
0:26:30 idea now just from what you just said
0:26:32 that well
0:26:33 hierarchy is like a manifestation of
0:26:35 truth isn't it like there must be this
0:26:38 type of moral priority or social
0:26:40 hierarchy and there is a truth behind
0:26:43 that because it leads to
0:26:46 societal harmony it leads to progress it
0:26:49 leads to all of these things or it's
0:26:51 worked in the past
0:26:52 and all of these utterances are too
0:26:55 objective and they're true
0:26:57 there's two too much truth in there and
0:26:59 they're thinking no you have to remove
0:27:00 all of that because uh all of that is
0:27:03 just based upon
0:27:05 your own context your own social
0:27:07 historical literary linguistic norms
0:27:10 that are not based on any objective
0:27:12 truth anyway and your notion of
0:27:14 hierarchy your notion of even more
0:27:15 hierarchies and these things really are
0:27:18 not representations of reality so we
0:27:20 should remove them in order for the
0:27:22 individual to manifest the shahawat and
0:27:24 the desires am i getting it right there
0:27:27 yeah pretty much i mean it's
0:27:30 um so you're you're very you're correct
0:27:32 some people call nietzsche um
0:27:35 the the prophet of post-modernism uh he
0:27:37 was obviously one of the uh
0:27:39 existentialists um
0:27:42 who
0:27:43 argued that
0:27:44 in the absence of god
0:27:46 in the western the the new western
0:27:50 paradigm or mindset uh zeitgeist to use
0:27:53 a hegelian term um that morality now
0:27:57 can only be decided by the individual
0:28:00 and in fact the individual should have
0:28:02 the moral courage to decide their own
0:28:04 morality uh to be an ubermensch um to be
0:28:09 more than human and
0:28:11 to
0:28:11 uh but he didn't believe by the way that
0:28:13 all human beings could do that he only
0:28:15 for only the strongest could do that um
0:28:19 um indeed he said that basically truth
0:28:21 is um
0:28:23 is the will to power
0:28:26 is to impose yourself onto the world
0:28:29 and so what you deem to be uh
0:28:31 to be true or rather what you would what
0:28:34 you say to be true anyway is really just
0:28:36 coming from the place of your
0:28:38 will to impose yourself upon the
0:28:41 external world to imprint yourself
0:28:43 externalize yourself in this in the
0:28:45 external world and
0:28:48 self-realize uh in the external world
0:28:51 which goes back to alien philosophy sure
0:28:54 so you mentioned nietzsche
0:28:56 was one of the existentialists and
0:28:57 obviously existentialism like it's a
0:28:59 broad kind of philosophical approach but
0:29:03 is there a link between existentialism
0:29:05 and postmodernism
0:29:07 oh very much so oh very very much so
0:29:09 they are the precursors and in fact have
0:29:11 guided
0:29:12 um
0:29:14 guided the trajectory of what would then
0:29:16 be now now be called um post-modernism
0:29:18 um
0:29:19 in what way
0:29:21 okay so
0:29:22 so
0:29:23 in the modernist perspective um
0:29:26 you know like humans have essence so
0:29:28 they're saying that this there's
0:29:29 something about you have a nature that's
0:29:31 essentially yourself
0:29:34 your your
0:29:35 your instincts your biological needs
0:29:38 your genetics a whole number of things
0:29:40 you have an essence of what is you
0:29:42 and that is a fictitious you can't
0:29:44 change that essence no matter you know
0:29:45 even if you cut off a finger or or a
0:29:47 foot or whatever you uh you're still
0:29:50 going to be human uh and you'll be human
0:29:52 while you're still alive of course then
0:29:54 when you die obviously then you will be
0:29:55 a non-living human
0:29:57 um and everything in the universe
0:29:58 obviously has an essence to it which
0:30:00 should be studied by physics and and uh
0:30:02 chemistry and biology and so on so forth
0:30:04 which is in essentially the modernist um
0:30:07 which was a modernist accepted viewpoint
0:30:10 so the existentialists and why they're
0:30:12 called existentialist is uh they
0:30:15 came up the argument and it was mostly
0:30:17 about humans they said that basically um
0:30:20 that before you have essence you must
0:30:22 exist right existence is more primary
0:30:25 more foundational than having essence
0:30:28 and so
0:30:29 as the famous phrase goes existence
0:30:32 precedes essence
0:30:34 and if existence precedes essence then
0:30:36 there's nothing that you are beholden to
0:30:38 there's no fixed nature that you have as
0:30:40 a human individual that you have to
0:30:42 stick to or that you must do or that you
0:30:44 should do
0:30:46 you can decide your essence in essence
0:30:48 um is what they are saying you know you
0:30:50 could decide your essence and therefore
0:30:53 um you can decide your nature and you
0:30:55 can be then become anything you want
0:30:58 quote unquote so that's it and that's
0:31:00 what what is existentialism and
0:31:03 nietzsche um
0:31:05 who then
0:31:06 argued that truth is a
0:31:08 is an anthropomorphism of the universe
0:31:10 there is no truth to the universe
0:31:13 there's simply um he tried his fellow
0:31:16 atheists saying there's one there's what
0:31:17 like you say god is an anthropomorphism
0:31:19 there's one more information you've you
0:31:21 haven't got rid of just yet and you need
0:31:22 to get rid of it which is truth itself
0:31:24 um to expect that you could actually
0:31:27 have any kind of approximation to truth
0:31:29 or understand what it is um in itself um
0:31:33 you know he he challenged this you you
0:31:36 probably know that this is influenced by
0:31:38 uh the kant's cancer argument of numina
0:31:40 right there's something beyond what you
0:31:43 can sense in the universe that is what
0:31:45 it the things in in of themselves what
0:31:47 they actually are but you'll never be
0:31:48 able to really interact with that you
0:31:49 never get all you can see is phenomena
0:31:51 not numina
0:31:53 is behind the object
0:31:55 now
0:31:56 i would even argue from that point of
0:31:58 view that really when you remove god as
0:32:01 you rightly said when you talked about
0:32:02 you know man is the center of the
0:32:04 universe or the individual and it's not
0:32:06 god centric anymore you know this kind
0:32:09 of pursuit for freedom or absolute
0:32:11 freedom now many of these kind of
0:32:12 neoliberals talk about you know that
0:32:14 they you know it's all about freedom
0:32:16 right um and they've made freedom their
0:32:19 goal is this kind of absolute type of
0:32:21 freedom and for me and this echoes what
0:32:23 martin ling said
0:32:25 that is really the desire for allah
0:32:27 that's the fitra the nature you know
0:32:29 yearning for god because absolute
0:32:32 freedom is
0:32:33 a part of divinity
0:32:35 no one can be absolutely free only allah
0:32:37 is absolutely free he is
0:32:40 the absolutely free he's of samad he is
0:32:42 the independent so all of these
0:32:45 philosophies in particular what's
0:32:47 happening with maybe existentialism even
0:32:48 with liberalism today this kind of
0:32:50 pursuit for this ideal for this you know
0:32:53 deshackling this absolute freedom
0:32:55 really that's just their desire for
0:32:57 allah and it's only when islam comes
0:33:00 when they adopt islam and they believe
0:33:01 in islam and they internalize islam that
0:33:03 they truly will find true freedom but
0:33:05 what type of freedom enslavement to
0:33:07 allah because it would free you from the
0:33:09 shackles of everything else because the
0:33:13 desires the soul desires allah subhanahu
0:33:15 wa ta'ala which is very interesting
0:33:17 because the quran in chapter 39 verse 29
0:33:19 and i'm summarizing the verse basically
0:33:21 says that consider the situation of two
0:33:23 people
0:33:24 one man is a servant to many masters and
0:33:26 they're all quarreling and one man is a
0:33:29 servant to one master whose condition is
0:33:32 best so you know you're always in a
0:33:34 state of slavery if you like or
0:33:36 servitude or your we're all contingent
0:33:39 we're all going to be dependent on
0:33:40 something you know physically
0:33:42 ontologically um existentially if you
0:33:45 like and otherwise but the true freedom
0:33:47 lies in connecting yourself with the
0:33:49 loss of hanover to allah so i wanted to
0:33:52 add that in there because
0:33:54 uh i i don't think maybe the
0:33:55 existentialists meant for this to happen
0:33:57 i don't know maybe they did i don't know
0:34:00 what you feel i don't think they meant
0:34:01 to
0:34:02 destroy
0:34:04 morals hierarchy and all of that stuff i
0:34:06 think for them it was a lot to do with
0:34:09 you know about the human condition
0:34:11 what do you think
0:34:13 i could be wrong i'm just i'm just uh
0:34:15 amusing here
0:34:17 i mean uh
0:34:18 you know
0:34:19 soren kirkgard and perhaps heidegger
0:34:22 didn't perhaps re um intend for that
0:34:24 full consequence yes um to arrive
0:34:28 um but but nietzsche certainly did and
0:34:30 certainly um vehemently called for
0:34:34 for humans to in essence become gods
0:34:36 themselves um become empty and true um
0:34:40 now i mean i want to give some context
0:34:42 because i don't want anyone to think
0:34:43 that all this began with post-modernists
0:34:46 or with existential distance no it
0:34:47 didn't
0:34:48 it was entailed in the very ideas of the
0:34:51 enlightenment themselves this is just
0:34:53 one branch of it taking it to the
0:34:55 uh nth degree
0:34:57 to its natural conclusion if you take
0:34:59 that as a starting assumption so as you
0:35:02 as you're aware um
0:35:03 uh you had
0:35:05 uh you had uh descartes and you had
0:35:08 um john locke
0:35:10 who
0:35:10 in essence
0:35:12 kind of you could say set the basis for
0:35:14 individualism although john locke argued
0:35:17 uh that
0:35:19 humans own themselves we are the
0:35:20 absolute sovereign of our of ourselves
0:35:22 on earth our natural state is to own
0:35:24 ourselves uh of course jack russo also
0:35:26 took that that that our natural state uh
0:35:29 and their natural law for humans is that
0:35:31 we're meant to be individuals and
0:35:33 absolute authority over ourselves and
0:35:35 our
0:35:36 our bodies of course john locke said
0:35:38 ourselves and our possessions something
0:35:40 that rousseau didn't agree with because
0:35:42 he thought that possessions belongs to
0:35:44 the whole earth to everybody which was
0:35:46 the beginning of the split which would
0:35:48 never be the socialists and and the
0:35:50 liberals that that's kind of the
0:35:51 beginning times um but you you also had
0:35:54 um obviously
0:35:55 uh descartes who argued that the basis
0:35:57 of all knowledge starts with the mind
0:35:59 not with
0:36:00 the empirical observation of the outside
0:36:02 world that starts in the minds right so
0:36:04 that's where you're basically all your
0:36:05 knowledge is and
0:36:07 um from that
0:36:08 you get uh francois de la barr who was a
0:36:11 social cartesian which is an interesting
0:36:13 concept in itself who argued that he was
0:36:15 actually one of the first to argue that
0:36:17 men and women um are
0:36:20 equal and should be equal because
0:36:22 mind has no sex the mind is separate
0:36:25 from the body you know the mind-body you
0:36:27 know dualism and i know you've done
0:36:28 quite a bit of um research and study i
0:36:30 think and and uh work on um
0:36:34 uh the mind-boggling problem and
0:36:37 neurology and discussing that with um
0:36:39 with atheists and so on and so forth our
0:36:41 problem of consciousness and things like
0:36:43 that um so so and as you know so
0:36:45 descartes was you know saying this and
0:36:47 of course france
0:36:48 um argued that the body of the of the
0:36:51 woman doesn't really impact the mind the
0:36:52 mind is beyond the body
0:36:54 in a way and so the mind has no sex
0:36:57 now uh the the empiricist as you know
0:36:59 that time like john locke and many
0:37:01 others who were the imperialists
0:37:03 branch of the enlightenment actually
0:37:05 thought women were inferior
0:37:06 intellectually to men
0:37:08 based on
0:37:10 well it's not even pseudoscience they
0:37:11 just basically saw that women weren't as
0:37:13 educated as men and so they thought what
0:37:15 women must be men intellectually
0:37:16 inferior even though
0:37:18 their society didn't actually give women
0:37:20 and the same education as men
0:37:23 necessarily speaking or at least um well
0:37:26 i
0:37:27 don't think it was the public education
0:37:28 video at the time even then but anyway
0:37:30 um
0:37:31 so that's what led to that that kind of
0:37:33 split now what happens is that when you
0:37:35 take the idea that humans are a mind and
0:37:37 the mind has no essence the mind
0:37:39 transcends the body and and and then
0:37:41 obviously you take it by account by
0:37:43 hegel going towards in that stream of
0:37:45 thinking and of course nature becomes
0:37:47 influenced by what would what is
0:37:49 basically continental philosophy the
0:37:51 whole as you know europe the european
0:37:53 take on um those the the kind of the
0:37:56 european traditional philosophy from
0:37:58 descartes which is more mind first so
0:38:00 the nietzsche just says that the mind
0:38:03 has uh omnipotent
0:38:05 abilities in a way in that it's it can
0:38:08 engage reality in his own terms
0:38:10 and which is ridiculous but his argument
0:38:13 is is such and therefore it transcends
0:38:16 observable reality it transcends it and
0:38:18 it can shape uh the interpretation of
0:38:20 reality at least
0:38:22 um and that um and that it is in the
0:38:25 nature of the mind and the human being
0:38:26 generally to be uh to to just to impose
0:38:30 itself on reality itself so i'll just
0:38:33 give you a quote so he had a
0:38:36 writing of his called beyond good and
0:38:37 evil and he says um
0:38:39 even the body within each individual
0:38:42 treats each other as equals will have to
0:38:44 be an incarnate will to power it will
0:38:47 strive to grow spread seize become
0:38:50 predominant not from any morality or
0:38:52 immortality but because it is living and
0:38:55 because life simply is the will
0:38:58 to power
0:38:59 uh an another phrase one from writing
0:39:01 called the will to power he said uh do
0:39:03 you want a name for this world a
0:39:04 solution for always riddles a light for
0:39:07 you too the the you best concealed
0:39:09 strongest most intrepid most midnightly
0:39:11 men this world is the will to power and
0:39:13 nothing besides and you yourselves are
0:39:15 also this will to power and nothing
0:39:18 besides so this is where you get this um
0:39:21 the idea that the only way human beings
0:39:23 can truly be individuals truly be
0:39:26 sovereign over themselves is their
0:39:27 sovereign over the very truths and
0:39:30 morality that they subject themselves to
0:39:33 okay so
0:39:34 so all of this freedom
0:39:36 sure so all of this modernism post
0:39:39 modernism stuff how do we see it from a
0:39:41 design perspective the first question i
0:39:43 want to ask is well is it islamic
0:39:46 can we
0:39:47 use the modernist of the post-modernist
0:39:49 lenses to understand reality and engage
0:39:52 endower engage with human beings or even
0:39:55 engage in academic work i mean
0:39:57 what are the problems what are the
0:39:59 limitations that should we even approach
0:40:00 it at all what are the terms of
0:40:03 engagement bro intellectually here
0:40:05 well i mean you know the famous verse in
0:40:07 the quran have you seen those who make
0:40:09 their own desires their lords right so
0:40:12 they
0:40:13 they make themselves um in into god uh
0:40:16 they make themselves their desires into
0:40:19 lords and
0:40:20 it's a tyrant right the their desires
0:40:22 desire and whims are tyrants the the
0:40:24 heart is a tyrant um uh
0:40:27 as you know
0:40:29 uh um
0:40:30 is is comes from the word uh to mean
0:40:32 like a like like a
0:40:34 a c or a change it changes
0:40:38 so it's always wavering and changing for
0:40:40 sure yeah and so therefore uh you can't
0:40:44 really you can't really um
0:40:47 uh you can't control it you don't
0:40:49 control your desires people don't
0:40:50 control their desires but if they were
0:40:52 to be told that they themselves are
0:40:55 divine beings so to speak such that they
0:40:57 determine their own morality their own
0:40:58 truth
0:40:59 they can be happy once they fully freed
0:41:02 themselves from the shackles of any
0:41:04 thinking posed by society
0:41:06 um they will be miserable why because
0:41:09 they still can't control
0:41:11 their desire they don't decide what is
0:41:13 their happiness they can't flick a
0:41:15 switch and make themselves happy make
0:41:17 themselves content they're not
0:41:19 self-sufficient
0:41:20 right and that's that that's the problem
0:41:23 um
0:41:24 well that's one of the main problems
0:41:26 aside from the fact that they are also
0:41:27 created beings which are um showing
0:41:30 immense ingratitude to the the one who
0:41:32 does sustain them and who is the only
0:41:34 self-sufficient one um but the
0:41:37 enlightenment has inculcated the idea of
0:41:39 individuals united that the individual
0:41:41 is the most sovereign most important
0:41:42 concern and liberals believe that too
0:41:45 but these existentialists in a way
0:41:47 have turned into a spirituality of sorts
0:41:50 um and have taken it to that maximum
0:41:53 possible extent
0:41:54 um
0:41:55 so
0:41:56 and that's one of the the problems is
0:41:57 the ingredients
0:41:58 also versus the quran
0:42:00 that said um uh about someone about a
0:42:03 person who rejects the truth he said do
0:42:05 have you not seen this um the the one
0:42:07 who thinks themselves self-sufficient
0:42:10 yes
0:42:11 so that's that's individuals in a way
0:42:14 that people think they're
0:42:15 self-sufficient but you're not you
0:42:16 depend on your parents you depend on
0:42:18 society to teach you language even
0:42:19 though you you say it's not it's um
0:42:22 should have no authority over you but
0:42:23 yet you can't even begin to make uh
0:42:26 cognitive categories and think and
0:42:28 actually rationalize without language
0:42:30 being taught to you your genes were
0:42:33 supplied to you your substance was
0:42:34 supplied to you the clothes are mostly
0:42:37 supplied to you unless you you weave
0:42:38 your own clothes from from
0:42:40 in from the forest or what have you ever
0:42:43 most things are supplied to you and you
0:42:44 depend on it right and yes and likewise
0:42:47 if that was if the wheat shipment from
0:42:49 ukraine doesn't come soon a lot of
0:42:51 people will soon um face the reality of
0:42:55 how dependent they are
0:42:56 um on on things outside themselves and
0:42:59 that's yes
0:43:00 that's the i mean this is humans yeah
0:43:02 this is a challenge against the idea of
0:43:04 like
0:43:05 individualism like you see yourself as
0:43:10 almost the individual has primacy and
0:43:14 not only that you think you
0:43:16 have this kind of sense of sovereignty
0:43:18 from that perspective that you become
0:43:20 your own master or your own your your
0:43:22 own king
0:43:23 and the quran has an amazing way of just
0:43:26 dealing with this kind of full sense of
0:43:28 self-sufficiency and individualism you
0:43:30 know allah reminds us that we're going
0:43:32 to die allah talks about in the 22nd
0:43:34 chapter the whole life cycle of the
0:43:35 human being like consider when we're
0:43:37 born
0:43:39 we didn't give birth to ourselves for
0:43:41 god's sake right and if we were born and
0:43:44 someone just left us along for two weeks
0:43:46 with no food or no milk we would die
0:43:49 we would die
0:43:50 and our own very birth and our own
0:43:52 existence for at least
0:43:54 the first few months or years is solely
0:43:57 dependent on things outside of the
0:43:58 individual and those things that were
0:44:01 helping the baby to grow and be
0:44:02 nourished or those people
0:44:04 namely the mother and others in many
0:44:07 cases
0:44:08 required other things to be dependent
0:44:10 upon for example the hospital system the
0:44:13 education system to actually allow us to
0:44:15 have doctors and so on and so forth and
0:44:17 all of those things are ultimately
0:44:18 dependent on allah
0:44:21 so even this idea with people think
0:44:23 sometimes they especially the new
0:44:25 liberals like as if they were born you
0:44:27 know they came out of the mother's womb
0:44:28 with the briefcase and the thai in a
0:44:30 bank balance right
0:44:32 is this is this is ridiculous and
0:44:33 there's an interesting correlation
0:44:35 between affluence and atheism by the way
0:44:38 and it's not that rich people are
0:44:39 atheists per se because of their
0:44:41 richness but because affluence has an
0:44:44 ability or it can be
0:44:46 a key to open the door to this kind of
0:44:49 existential spiritual disease of
0:44:51 the full sense of self-sufficiency you
0:44:54 know i'm self-sufficient it's me i did
0:44:56 it but we have to realize that even our
0:44:58 very ideas bro
0:45:00 come from
0:45:01 you know
0:45:02 social dependencies like for us to even
0:45:06 like take language itself
0:45:08 how is it the case that i can pronounce
0:45:10 your name as abdullah al-andalusi
0:45:13 why do i not pronounce your name as ab
0:45:16 do
0:45:19 why don't i pronounce it that way
0:45:21 one of the main reasons maybe that name
0:45:23 is is is not a great example let's take
0:45:26 love right why do we pronounce love as
0:45:28 love and not love or love e
0:45:30 the reason being is because it's a lived
0:45:33 it's a it's it's a it's a it's a living
0:45:35 knowledge
0:45:36 coming down to us through this concept
0:45:39 of recurrent reporting and islamic
0:45:41 tradition we have multawater because
0:45:42 there was no book that taught us on how
0:45:44 to pronounce love yes we have books now
0:45:46 that tell us dictionaries this is how
0:45:48 you pronounce these words but they're
0:45:49 just a reflection of the social living
0:45:52 knowledge that has come down to us over
0:45:53 time so even very pronunciation even
0:45:56 meaning itself
0:45:57 is not based on and on just one person
0:46:01 it's based on this kind of collective
0:46:03 sharing and transmitting of knowledge
0:46:05 and this is just language itself imagine
0:46:07 all the other things that we believe in
0:46:09 or we hope to be true so yeah you're
0:46:11 right um but that deals with the
0:46:13 question of you know giving the
0:46:15 individual primacy the individualism
0:46:17 aspect
0:46:18 what about the kind of
0:46:20 other aspects concerning post-modernism
0:46:22 because in the academy if you like in
0:46:24 academia there are many muslims that
0:46:27 seem to be maybe taking hold of these
0:46:29 ideas and appreciating them and you know
0:46:34 if you could give us a bunch of points
0:46:35 to show where exactly
0:46:38 post-modernism is that clash
0:46:40 with with islam
0:46:43 sure um you're talking about um society
0:46:45 um
0:46:46 uh generally agreeing uh for the most
0:46:48 part uh pronunciation rules um or basic
0:46:52 ones anyway yes um you uh and that's
0:46:54 something that people will take in uh
0:46:56 you you should you should hear what
0:46:59 um a kind of the a branch of
0:47:02 post-modernism uh called
0:47:03 post-structuralism which deals with um
0:47:06 texts
0:47:07 what they say about this they say is
0:47:09 completely arbitrary and should um in
0:47:11 essence has no authority
0:47:13 over us um
0:47:15 and
0:47:16 uh before i answer your question i just
0:47:18 wanted to kind of make note something
0:47:19 that was quite interesting which is
0:47:21 um so the kind of initial individualism
0:47:24 of uh of the enlightenment that
0:47:26 liberalism encapsulates is this freedom
0:47:29 from state tyranny in essence freedom
0:47:31 from the state uh at least
0:47:33 uh from oppression by the state
0:47:35 but
0:47:37 people didn't want to stop there um it
0:47:39 was what about oppression but from
0:47:41 society and repression from religion um
0:47:45 these these external forces
0:47:47 and so for example france molded itself
0:47:50 more against protecting
0:47:53 the individual from oppression by
0:47:55 religion
0:47:56 and not by people like
0:47:58 spanish inquisitors going around and
0:48:00 burning people at the stake no no
0:48:02 by just simply peer pressure
0:48:05 um from
0:48:06 of religious religiously influenced co
0:48:09 aspects of culture and so
0:48:11 when the france when french it made laws
0:48:14 to try to um to ban the hijab in schools
0:48:16 and and ban the cub in public they cited
0:48:19 that they were simply protecting the
0:48:21 individual from religion freedom from
0:48:23 religion
0:48:25 in order for them even if that means
0:48:26 that there'll be people who'll be have
0:48:28 to be compelled to take off the niqab in
0:48:31 public and remove the hijab in schools
0:48:33 they say ultimately it's for their
0:48:35 freedom as individuals um from this
0:48:38 external force religion and and also
0:48:41 from uh society can oppress in many ways
0:48:43 obviously as you know um
0:48:45 uh john stuart mill uh when he was
0:48:47 trying to talk about protecting the
0:48:49 individual
0:48:50 right to freedom of expression
0:48:52 he said that society can impose
0:48:55 certain a certain repression which is
0:48:58 worse than the state
0:48:59 because at least with the state if you
0:49:01 know that the police can't hear you and
0:49:02 you want to say whatever you want to say
0:49:04 you can at least say it but with if the
0:49:06 if culture is oppressing you
0:49:08 then you're you're scared to say what
0:49:10 you really feel and think even in your
0:49:12 own private areas of your life to in
0:49:14 your house or to your friends or what
0:49:16 have you
0:49:18 and and but this had the opposite effect
0:49:20 uh just john schumer's argument had the
0:49:21 opposite effect because then people said
0:49:23 ah yes we must go out and ensure that
0:49:25 everyone has the freedom to express um
0:49:29 themselves as they want and if someone
0:49:31 wants to let's say express themselves
0:49:33 publicly by engaging in a romantic act
0:49:36 of of kissing a same-sex partner
0:49:39 if someone was to say on the street like
0:49:41 there was a christian preacher in
0:49:42 england who said he was just preaching
0:49:44 out he said homosexuality is a sin in a
0:49:46 banner or something or lesbianism a sin
0:49:48 uh they got he got arrested and fined
0:49:51 for obviously a hate crime because he
0:49:53 said that simply expressing that is
0:49:56 impinging the freedom of individuals to
0:49:58 express their themselves in in the way
0:50:00 they want as as in sexuality so which
0:50:03 creates a contradiction because that
0:50:05 means that you can't express your your
0:50:07 moral views or your religious views
0:50:10 um
0:50:10 to in order to cater for all the
0:50:12 people's right to express themselves um
0:50:15 uh going out in public and let's say uh
0:50:17 uh and in identifying or at least um uh
0:50:20 acting uh
0:50:22 with romantic gestures of same sexual
0:50:23 gestures uh even though expressing
0:50:26 doesn't stop those people from doing it
0:50:27 simply saying homosexuality is a sin
0:50:29 doesn't physically stop anyone but they
0:50:31 say it creates a social oppression and
0:50:34 in order to protect
0:50:36 them
0:50:37 their right not to be socially oppressed
0:50:40 the the people who are expressing this
0:50:42 idea must be socially oppressed or not
0:50:44 legally impressed
0:50:45 um by the state it creates so many
0:50:48 contradictions in their system um which
0:50:50 i i i don't wanna
0:50:52 enumerate so many times anyway to go to
0:50:54 take it back now um and before i do well
0:50:56 not all the observation about something
0:50:58 you said before which is you mentioned
0:51:00 how we are we are so dependent on many
0:51:02 things going right i saw this great
0:51:03 quote online it was i wish i had thought
0:51:05 of it but it didn't didn't come from me
0:51:08 they said that um you're only uh four or
0:51:10 five minutes away from
0:51:12 um dying by um asphyxiation because
0:51:16 like not being able to you know but
0:51:17 dying through lack of oxygen
0:51:19 except but every breath you reset it
0:51:23 right you reset that timer
0:51:25 right wow so i wish i thought of it it's
0:51:28 a really great um
0:51:29 observation um but anyway
0:51:33 so to go back to your question then um
0:51:35 so what the other aspects of
0:51:37 post-modernism which has got uh which
0:51:38 has um uh kind of infiltrated academia
0:51:42 and infiltrated the uh minds of many
0:51:45 unfortunate muslims who are entangled
0:51:47 yeah and why is it on islamic why would
0:51:49 we say this is contrary to the islamic
0:51:51 word view
0:51:54 okay so
0:51:57 um i'm going to summarize but you can
0:51:59 feel free to drill down in any any
0:52:01 claims i've made and i can give you
0:52:03 yes examples and things also but i feel
0:52:05 that you you and the audience would
0:52:07 benefit from
0:52:09 i mean you might really notice already
0:52:10 but the audience at the very least would
0:52:12 benefit from uh just a little bit of
0:52:14 history to see where all this comes from
0:52:16 and where the problem arises
0:52:18 so
0:52:19 so basically um
0:52:21 as you know you know uh
0:52:23 uh the famous philosopher hegel um
0:52:25 developed the ideas of um
0:52:27 of a kind of zeitgeist of the ideas of
0:52:31 like um welton strong worldview
0:52:33 zeitgeist the spirit of the age um the
0:52:36 uh
0:52:36 thesis and this has two conflicting
0:52:39 forces that produce some they clash and
0:52:41 they produce sub um sublation
0:52:44 this was all his idea carl monks came
0:52:46 along
0:52:47 uh so
0:52:48 he's because he did because hegel was it
0:52:50 was an idealist uh you know it's all
0:52:52 about the mind about it it's almost very
0:52:54 woolly and very non-physical so karl
0:52:56 marx was a physicalist very much
0:52:58 materialist he transformed that into a
0:53:00 materialist form
0:53:01 and he basically said okay history is a
0:53:04 clash of of conflicting
0:53:06 of two conflicting forces producing um
0:53:09 synthesis
0:53:11 um
0:53:12 he argued that um there there is there's
0:53:15 a war between um in it well
0:53:19 not necessarily a war but a clash or or
0:53:21 a suppression of the working class by
0:53:23 the ruling classes the bourgeois
0:53:25 bourgeoisie the ritual those who own the
0:53:27 means of production
0:53:29 and
0:53:30 the ideal is to basically liberate the
0:53:33 workers uh by in essence um equalizing
0:53:37 the ownership the means of production to
0:53:39 everybody everyone it becomes common
0:53:40 property of everybody
0:53:42 but he also argued that
0:53:44 that was the way to liberate individuals
0:53:46 because if you didn't have to worry
0:53:48 about doing a particular job to make
0:53:50 ends meet
0:53:51 then you're free but if you are have to
0:53:53 spend your nine to five or nine to six
0:53:55 or even even more than that worrying and
0:53:58 working and at the behest of someone
0:54:00 else who uses your labor and makes a lot
0:54:02 of profit from your labor
0:54:04 um
0:54:05 you're not free yeah you're a wage slave
0:54:08 basically that's in essence was his
0:54:10 argument
0:54:11 uh he made me made a whole bunch of
0:54:12 other arguments i'm trying to summarize
0:54:14 as best as i could
0:54:16 as i can in some way anyway why is this
0:54:18 even relevant in the first place why is
0:54:20 the marxist on perspective yes
0:54:23 well um
0:54:24 he said he said
0:54:26 uh he said in uh that he made this idea
0:54:29 up um which is basically he said
0:54:32 that
0:54:33 the he's a materialist worldview he said
0:54:35 everything comes from you know uh the
0:54:37 the means of production right he says
0:54:39 that how you make
0:54:41 how you make your computers you make
0:54:42 your cars uh how the early people who uh
0:54:46 like cut down wood and make wooden lot
0:54:49 wooden cabins and wooden houses and
0:54:51 things uh using the axe or the plow
0:54:53 um he said that the first thing that
0:54:55 humans need to do is to survive and they
0:54:57 survive by obviously you know
0:54:59 agriculture by um you know cutting
0:55:01 things down in the industry culture
0:55:03 comes later and therefore he says that
0:55:05 culture comes from the means of
0:55:07 production uh and making something
0:55:09 called a superstructure or the ideology
0:55:11 of the state and he argued in essence
0:55:13 that the ideology of state is what
0:55:15 justifies those in power
0:55:17 retaining their power is the ideology
0:55:19 which is these the the culture the the
0:55:22 values the world view of the entire
0:55:24 state system so uh he said eventually
0:55:28 the
0:55:28 there would be the means of production
0:55:30 will change and evolve to the next the
0:55:32 new inventions new industries and people
0:55:34 will see the possibility of communism
0:55:36 the possibility that that you don't have
0:55:39 to work that much to actually be happy
0:55:41 to have all the the food you want all
0:55:42 the all the house you want the car
0:55:44 whatever you want uh you can actually uh
0:55:47 if you just overturn the bourgeois make
0:55:48 a one-class society
0:55:50 and and change all that and so on and so
0:55:52 forth that'll be um then everyone will
0:55:54 be free because their material needs
0:55:56 will not be
0:55:58 at the behest of the bourgeois who
0:56:00 control the the the the wealth and uh
0:56:03 you know make people dependent on wages
0:56:05 and fixed routine jobs that are soulless
0:56:07 and are soul-destroying and so on so for
0:56:09 you know monotonous jobs and things like
0:56:11 that
0:56:12 i'm i'm heavily summarizing it just to
0:56:14 keep it brief so why is it why is this
0:56:16 important why because um
0:56:19 karl marx predicted that in his
0:56:22 view of history that there's this
0:56:24 eventual evolution to the point where
0:56:25 captain you had feudalism and then you
0:56:27 had capitalism and the next stage was
0:56:29 communism or socialism sorry socialism
0:56:32 then communism where the state would own
0:56:33 all the means of production and then
0:56:35 distribute that equally um and then
0:56:37 eventually the state would wither away
0:56:38 you'd have a pure utopian anarchy where
0:56:41 everyone owns the means of production
0:56:42 you'll need a state that was basically
0:56:44 karl marx's view
0:56:45 he predicted that
0:56:46 england the most industrialized
0:56:48 societies would be the first to fall to
0:56:50 socialism and then communism that was
0:56:52 his prediction guess what
0:56:54 it didn't happen only the most backwater
0:56:56 countries at the time or backward
0:56:58 countries relatively speaking russia and
0:57:00 all such countries they're the ones that
0:57:01 fell but not the ones he predicted would
0:57:04 would follow
0:57:05 this made marxists think to themselves
0:57:08 why why did that not work out what's
0:57:10 going on you know and and then they they
0:57:13 started to revise karl marx's
0:57:14 predictions and his beliefs and they
0:57:15 said what's going on why aren't the
0:57:17 workers
0:57:18 rising up and like why wouldn't they be
0:57:20 socialist it's for their own benefit
0:57:22 they should love this why is it not
0:57:24 happening in the most advanced
0:57:25 capitalist societies and they came to
0:57:27 the conclusion and this is where you
0:57:28 know you have neo-marxist now
0:57:30 that
0:57:31 the people are being controlled
0:57:34 ideologically by the ruling class the
0:57:36 ruling class
0:57:38 um through cultural um hegemony which is
0:57:41 developed by graham sheba anyway and and
0:57:43 other new um neil marx has developed
0:57:46 develop these ideas they've been told
0:57:48 these ideas that that are false ideas
0:57:51 false consciousness in a way and they
0:57:53 keep people content and happy
0:57:55 in the oppressed lives that they're
0:57:58 living as as exploited workers and
0:58:00 they're even being told that that's the
0:58:02 natural way of this is how it's
0:58:03 naturally meant to be so they just think
0:58:05 it's natural they think it's normal they
0:58:07 don't rise up
0:58:09 why is that now important it's because
0:58:11 now the fixation was there's a height
0:58:14 there's a ruling class a ruling elite
0:58:17 and they control the culture of the
0:58:18 society and this culture is what um
0:58:22 fools the working classes fools the
0:58:24 people
0:58:25 into
0:58:26 sub-serbians so then the solution to
0:58:28 this is we have to uh critique as they
0:58:31 call it ideology critique was german
0:58:34 i'm not pronouncing the german accent
0:58:35 but um we have to refute it we have to
0:58:38 engage it um and uh
0:58:41 as as this this school of thought
0:58:43 develops it encounters existentialist
0:58:45 ideas
0:58:46 and then eventually
0:58:49 morphs into what you now call
0:58:50 post-modernism where they say that um
0:58:54 you know the the problem is we have to
0:58:56 defeat hierarchy hierarchies
0:58:59 keep people hierarchy usually has those
0:59:02 who are oppressed and those who are the
0:59:04 oppressor so you can treat the hierarchy
0:59:06 and in order to defeat hierarchy you
0:59:09 have to defeat the ideology which is
0:59:11 being propounded the cultural hegemony
0:59:13 um of this ruling elite you have to
0:59:16 defeat that by attacking these ideas and
0:59:19 and so on and so forth and then
0:59:20 eventually
0:59:22 um as as existentialists and other and
0:59:26 uh development development in language
0:59:28 called
0:59:29 post structuralism which i'll get to in
0:59:30 a bit um said that language itself
0:59:33 encodes
0:59:34 mindset of oppression is actually
0:59:36 encoded into language right so the idea
0:59:39 that light is better than dark
0:59:41 um the idea that right is better than
0:59:43 left uh or comes first and left um
0:59:47 ladies so well so ladies and gentlemen
0:59:49 would be is a
0:59:51 example where women come first but um
0:59:52 they'll say that there's all these
0:59:53 hidden uh biases and prejudices in
0:59:56 language itself which also is
0:59:58 controlling the elite yeah what i'm
1:00:00 getting here then is
1:00:02 the
1:00:03 because of the failure of marx uh
1:00:05 marxists uh prediction or mark or karl
1:00:08 marx's predictions
1:00:10 the neo-marxists
1:00:12 they came with an idea if you like to
1:00:15 say look in order to preserve this kind
1:00:17 of communist worldview
1:00:20 we have to make something up or we have
1:00:21 to
1:00:22 theorize that
1:00:24 the
1:00:26 those who hold the power in a society
1:00:30 the ideologues they have the power the
1:00:33 hierarchy to
1:00:35 disseminate these ideas to make the
1:00:37 working class think
1:00:39 that they're okay to make the working
1:00:40 class be happy with the status quo
1:00:43 now
1:00:44 the neo-marxist therefore
1:00:46 from what you're saying and just correct
1:00:48 me if i'm wrong are now using
1:00:51 post-modernism as a tool
1:00:53 to remove those hierarchies
1:00:56 to stop people thinking that capitalism
1:00:59 is okay
1:01:01 um
1:01:02 in essence uh well i suppose um
1:01:05 because they're not the same thing
1:01:06 right neil marx is
1:01:08 when they when many neo-marxists
1:01:12 embrace what we now call
1:01:13 post-structuralism and many such things
1:01:15 they actually morph into now what's
1:01:16 called post-marxists
1:01:18 so
1:01:19 um where they they uh know what they
1:01:22 give up on on the marxist idea of a meta
1:01:25 narrative the marxism is a narrative the
1:01:27 marxism wants marxism to be the the
1:01:29 dominant ideology but many of these
1:01:30 post-structuralists say there should be
1:01:32 no dominant ideology but
1:01:34 to kind of reorient it back to your
1:01:36 question before i discuss these other
1:01:38 details
1:01:39 um so
1:01:40 the the new what the new marxists uh
1:01:43 uh uh
1:01:44 one of the famous ones
1:01:46 uh he asked he basically said that one
1:01:48 of the ways in essence to
1:01:51 create this uh this real workers
1:01:53 revolution is you have to basically
1:01:55 obviously destroy the
1:01:57 uh the hegemony or the ruling class
1:02:00 but in order to kind of um accelerate
1:02:02 that as well you can use not just the
1:02:05 working class as a marginalized
1:02:08 group of people but every marginalized
1:02:11 group of people or anyone who is not
1:02:13 part of the dominant group or is not
1:02:15 represent
1:02:16 dominant group or there exists any kind
1:02:19 of preference against that that
1:02:22 for the dominant group against those
1:02:23 people women um people who are who are
1:02:26 not north european white or what have
1:02:28 you you can use you can mobilize
1:02:31 all these different minorities
1:02:33 to join in that cause and attack um
1:02:37 this this hierarchy from all these
1:02:38 different groups all at the same time
1:02:41 and bring down the hierarchy now here's
1:02:43 the thing so many muslim academics who
1:02:45 go into academia because academia and
1:02:47 the universities where these thinkers
1:02:49 reside mostly in the humanities they've
1:02:52 in essence have a strong showing if not
1:02:54 an overpreponderance control of the of
1:02:57 humanities humanities being
1:02:59 the study of of sociology and society
1:03:01 because as most people don't realize
1:03:03 karl marx advanced his worldview as as a
1:03:06 economic system
1:03:08 political philosophy and sociology all
1:03:10 mixed into one because for him they're
1:03:11 all the same thing by the way and
1:03:13 marxism is a is a a sociological theory
1:03:17 or lens in sociology for people who want
1:03:20 to be sociologists many sociologists are
1:03:22 marxists or and some many neo-marxist
1:03:24 and many post-marxist
1:03:26 so it they have a they
1:03:29 gain you know gain a massive foothold in
1:03:31 western academia through the in
1:03:33 humanities departments and then many
1:03:35 muslims who um
1:03:37 in the west and are marginalized or they
1:03:39 feel uh the the brunt of islamophobia or
1:03:42 they might be discriminated against for
1:03:44 other attributes they they have they
1:03:46 might be um south uh south asian
1:03:49 uh they might be from in africa they
1:03:51 might be from um they might be arab it
1:03:53 might be whoever turkish it might be
1:03:55 whomever um if they feel that they are
1:03:58 marginalized and discriminate against
1:04:00 well guess what these you know these
1:04:02 these um post marxists or neo-marxists
1:04:04 or those influenced by these movements
1:04:05 will come from hey you're you know what
1:04:07 we will fight for you we're with you and
1:04:10 we want to you know defend your rights
1:04:13 against these um these oppressors these
1:04:15 discriminators and so on and so forth so
1:04:18 uh so you know what join us join our
1:04:20 movement and here's how we're going to
1:04:21 take down this hierarchy together and
1:04:23 all you have to do is just adopt the
1:04:25 values and ideas that the methodological
1:04:27 tools that we're using uh to do that and
1:04:30 that's why many muslims fall into that
1:04:32 because they think that the enemy of my
1:04:34 enemy
1:04:35 is my friend but sometimes the enemy of
1:04:37 my enemy is just another enemy and they
1:04:40 could there could be a worse enemy there
1:04:42 could be a much worse enemy to be honest
1:04:43 especially if you look uh into the
1:04:45 future then the impact of these ideas
1:04:47 the next five 10 15 years it could
1:04:49 create a
1:04:50 far greater destruction because
1:04:53 so coming back to that question that i
1:04:55 tried to do or the question i raised
1:04:56 i'll try to understand your point so
1:04:58 there is a distinction between the
1:04:59 neo-marxist and the post-modernist but
1:05:01 the neo-marxists
1:05:02 because they want to remove that kind of
1:05:06 hierarchical
1:05:07 dominance and oppression which is making
1:05:10 people feel okay with the status quo
1:05:13 they're using these post modern
1:05:15 postmodernists
1:05:17 the postmodernist approach
1:05:19 uh
1:05:20 as a tool to try and remove the
1:05:21 hierarchy
1:05:23 okay i think i mean the best way to give
1:05:26 you the delineation of neo-marxist and
1:05:28 post-marxists and so on so because the
1:05:29 reason being i because you did mention
1:05:32 uh the marxism then karl marx made a
1:05:35 prediction his predictions failed then
1:05:37 the new mox came up with the idea that
1:05:40 it's because of this dominant
1:05:41 ideological hierarchy this hegemony that
1:05:43 is you know uh
1:05:45 duping duping people to believe in that
1:05:48 everything is okay and this how it's
1:05:49 supposed to be and this is the status
1:05:51 quo because why aren't they uprising
1:05:53 right um so and then so so what they
1:05:56 realize is they need to remove this
1:05:58 hegemony this ideological hierarchical
1:06:00 hecarimini
1:06:01 and so that's where the link is with the
1:06:03 post modernist correct
1:06:06 because of postmodernism
1:06:08 they kind of
1:06:09 they're kind of if i don't if you know
1:06:11 if even if they
1:06:13 accept this terminology but they have a
1:06:15 metaphysic a lens in order to understand
1:06:17 reality and they basically say well
1:06:19 there is no objective reality there is
1:06:21 no absolute truth it's only your truth
1:06:23 in a particular context historical
1:06:25 linguistic and otherwise and therefore
1:06:27 these hierarchies should not be dominant
1:06:29 and they therefore they should collapse
1:06:31 so that's how maybe the the neo-marxist
1:06:34 would use post-modernism as a tool or an
1:06:36 approach to remove that hegemony
1:06:39 in order for the predictions of marx to
1:06:42 come true which is people gonna uprise
1:06:44 and people are not gonna accept the kind
1:06:45 of capital status quo
1:06:47 that's what i got from you i was like
1:06:49 totally wrong okay no no it's not it um
1:06:52 just a very slight nuance on the math
1:06:54 because it is quite chaotic um and you
1:06:57 know there's a lot here bro i'm like
1:06:59 whoa there's so many cultures jungle
1:07:01 jungle yeah
1:07:03 apologies i mean it's a it's a very it's
1:07:05 a big subject but to um to simplify it
1:07:08 um
1:07:09 uh in a way
1:07:11 so
1:07:12 basically
1:07:13 marxism in essence failed um marxism was
1:07:16 based on the concept of economic
1:07:17 determinism
1:07:19 which is that um culture religion
1:07:22 society
1:07:23 um social classes everything
1:07:27 it just emerges epiphenomenally from the
1:07:30 economic system the only really physical
1:07:32 thing is the economic system and all
1:07:34 this stuff is just like a
1:07:36 some kind of ghostly admission
1:07:39 emission that comes from uh it's called
1:07:42 the superstructure right so the economic
1:07:44 system determines everything it
1:07:45 determines the religion terms even the
1:07:47 the creed of the religion it determines
1:07:49 culture determines art determines
1:07:51 everything it was that was karl marx's
1:07:53 idea was
1:07:54 fully economic determinist
1:07:56 and and change but then change happens
1:07:59 change can happen because the means of
1:08:01 production changes over time as humans
1:08:04 invent new tools and things like that
1:08:06 and then you get tension at society with
1:08:08 a
1:08:10 thesis which is the the current
1:08:11 conditional society meets antithesis the
1:08:14 the new economic realities that are
1:08:16 arising and then it creates synthesis so
1:08:19 you get from feudalism to um capitalism
1:08:22 by um the invention of the industrial
1:08:24 revolution and all the the technology
1:08:26 that goes into that that's that's
1:08:27 basically karl marx's ideas so his
1:08:30 prediction was that the most developed
1:08:32 um western
1:08:34 economies um who have in full
1:08:36 industrialization will be would then go
1:08:39 to the next step because he argued he
1:08:40 said we have enough resources for
1:08:43 everyone on the planet to enjoy
1:08:45 um you know
1:08:46 good food good shelter um that you don't
1:08:50 have to work so long because in industry
1:08:52 it does a lot bit for you so he argued
1:08:54 that maybe you could you'd only need to
1:08:56 really work maybe i don't know
1:08:58 three or four hours a day maybe um you
1:09:00 know um
1:09:01 for a few days a week because industry
1:09:03 takes care of all of it so then you can
1:09:05 be an artist you can be a um a film buff
1:09:08 you can you can be um
1:09:11 a philosophizer you can be a fisherman
1:09:13 and as well as you know working in a
1:09:15 factory one day or working in a
1:09:18 in an office or a day this was this was
1:09:20 karl marx's idea of freedom and this was
1:09:22 his predictions from economic
1:09:23 determinism but when that didn't happen
1:09:26 it was kind of like a big refutation
1:09:28 to karl marx it was that yes guess what
1:09:31 england the the working class
1:09:34 are actually quite happy and not only
1:09:36 that but his prediction that um profit
1:09:39 margins would go up and wages would go
1:09:41 down until the working class as the the
1:09:44 bourgeois want to maximize profit as
1:09:45 much as possible so they're going to
1:09:46 keep pushing down um the wages of
1:09:49 non-differentiated labor i.e from the
1:09:51 workers who just go to factories what
1:09:52 have you but instead you you had you had
1:09:54 labor rights you had um welfare rights
1:09:57 you had um you know uh dangerous
1:10:00 conditions had to be taken care of by
1:10:02 the uh by the employer and new
1:10:04 legislation protecting workers all these
1:10:06 things went against karl marx's
1:10:08 predictions
1:10:10 right that you had social welfare it
1:10:12 just went again it went against karl
1:10:13 marx's predictions he didn't account for
1:10:15 that didn't predict it for it wouldn't
1:10:17 occur
1:10:18 so how to explain it then but should we
1:10:20 just throw karl marx's books in the bid
1:10:22 well you should have but what some
1:10:23 people some marxist did is they thought
1:10:26 well you know what
1:10:27 karl marx isn't god right they don't
1:10:29 even believe in god
1:10:30 he was partly right we just need to
1:10:32 tweak his um his world view a little bit
1:10:36 so instead of economic determinism
1:10:38 they said that actually then it wasn't
1:10:40 the economic system that creates the
1:10:42 culture but the culture and the ruling
1:10:44 system is actually created by the ruling
1:10:46 class and it and it it
1:10:50 brainwashes yes the workers
1:10:52 into thinking that they're in a happy um
1:10:55 you know conditioning it's like a
1:10:57 ideological hegemony
1:10:59 yeah yeah yeah as a
1:11:01 cultural hegemony as as as as
1:11:04 yeah so
1:11:05 yeah yeah so so far i i got that so the
1:11:09 point now the link now between
1:11:11 these and the post-modernists yeah these
1:11:13 neo-marxism
1:11:14 are they now using post-modernist
1:11:17 thinking approach in order to remove
1:11:20 this
1:11:21 ideological cultural hegemony which is
1:11:24 preventing from marxism to manifest
1:11:26 itself in the real world for everyone to
1:11:28 have this kind of utopia
1:11:30 this freedom and this utopia
1:11:32 because that is what is keeping the the
1:11:34 masses dumb if you like they're keeping
1:11:37 the masses happy with this status quo
1:11:40 that is not good for them it's actually
1:11:41 oppressive because according to the
1:11:43 marxist narrative they're supposed to be
1:11:45 uprising right so
1:11:47 that my question here is isn't the link
1:11:50 that these
1:11:53 neo-marxists are using post-modernism
1:11:55 now in order to
1:11:57 to
1:11:59 remove this cultural hegemony
1:12:02 well
1:12:03 here's the irony of this um
1:12:05 which is so
1:12:07 the neo-marxists want to replace
1:12:10 um the dominance so the the dominant um
1:12:13 you know hegemonial um system of ideas
1:12:16 called it's called ideology they called
1:12:18 it ideological karma it's called
1:12:19 ideology but
1:12:21 they simply want to replace that with
1:12:22 socialism and marxism that's all they
1:12:23 want to do
1:12:24 just
1:12:25 replace it with their own their own
1:12:27 system but to get there aren't they
1:12:29 using personalism to do that
1:12:30 post-modernism to do that
1:12:32 okay so initially it was simply
1:12:35 about um breaking down hierarchies by
1:12:38 by critiquing
1:12:40 the dominant ideology so they developed
1:12:42 something called critical theory okay
1:12:45 which was simply about um
1:12:48 psychoanalyzing they were influenced by
1:12:49 stephen freud by the way that's what
1:12:51 also made neil marx's new marxists they
1:12:54 took these new new theories in on board
1:12:56 and they started to use it we need to
1:12:57 psychoanalyze society we need to
1:12:58 psychoanalyze that we have to show
1:13:00 people that they are subconsciously
1:13:02 taking in on ideas which have no basis
1:13:05 in reality or false ideas that they've
1:13:07 been told by the liberal ruling elite
1:13:10 and we need to refute it expose it
1:13:12 refute it show them it's wrong and then
1:13:14 they will wake up from their stupor and
1:13:15 so on and so forth
1:13:17 the problem with uh now they're doing
1:13:19 all this and there was um
1:13:21 uh and uh to to change the hegemony to
1:13:25 the the the hegemony or the ruling by
1:13:28 the the
1:13:29 that was it the tyranny of the
1:13:30 proletariat um
1:13:32 make the proletariat the workers be the
1:13:34 ones in control and eventually make
1:13:37 everyone into one class and it and the
1:13:39 it'll be the hegemony of the ruling
1:13:41 class and the ruling class will now be
1:13:43 the the working classes that's they
1:13:45 wanted to replace the ruling system with
1:13:47 their own ruling system to make it more
1:13:49 simpler
1:13:50 post-modernists are a little bit
1:13:51 different um because
1:13:54 they're against
1:13:55 all
1:13:56 hegemonies
1:13:57 and all
1:13:58 um uh all uh
1:14:01 uh when that they they call it grand
1:14:03 narratives or meta narratives yes
1:14:05 and the irony is that basically many
1:14:08 neo-marxists um
1:14:10 once they did uh
1:14:12 uh they they uh looked into the
1:14:15 existentialism they uh not looked into
1:14:18 it but the influence from
1:14:19 existentialists uh the influence um from
1:14:23 um
1:14:24 post-structuralism which is about about
1:14:26 um languages arbitrary and things like
1:14:27 this uh as this which i'll discuss in a
1:14:30 bit but
1:14:31 this basically in a way you could say
1:14:33 made them apostate
1:14:35 from neo-marxism
1:14:36 uh and that's why they're called
1:14:38 post-marxists it's because i mean many
1:14:40 of these these uh your famous uh
1:14:43 post-modernist um thinkers jean-paul
1:14:46 starts uh you could uh um jacques
1:14:50 um
1:14:51 who else uh
1:14:53 uh that's that's kind of
1:14:57 and
1:14:58 uh many others uh quite a few others uh
1:15:01 they they all were they were either
1:15:03 influenced by marxism or they were
1:15:04 well-known marxist philosophers in their
1:15:06 early life or even even until later life
1:15:09 these are all um
1:15:11 okay i get it now
1:15:14 that's not the one that's well famous
1:15:16 for these were all marxists they
1:15:18 apostated you could say in a way from
1:15:20 um marxism
1:15:22 so the so the link basically is
1:15:25 not that they're using post-modernism as
1:15:27 a tool to remove the hegemonical
1:15:29 cultural ideological
1:15:31 uh hegemony and cultural you know
1:15:34 oppression of these
1:15:36 masses that they somehow are happy with
1:15:38 the status quo they're not using that
1:15:40 it's because in the attempt using
1:15:43 critical theory to remove
1:15:45 uh that ideology they somehow morphed
1:15:48 into post marxist and therefore morphed
1:15:51 into
1:15:52 now adopting a post uh modernist uh
1:15:57 world view if you want to call it that
1:15:58 which is antithetical to the
1:16:00 postmodernist i guess that's what they
1:16:01 would argue about you know they would
1:16:02 have the post modern lenses so you're
1:16:04 basically doing like a
1:16:06 a the history of ideas
1:16:09 so there is a link
1:16:10 between
1:16:11 marxism
1:16:13 the neo-marxists
1:16:15 and the postmodernists because a lot of
1:16:16 the neo-marxists became post-modernists
1:16:20 yes okay i get it so okay good okay i
1:16:23 get it now good so it was not
1:16:24 necessarily the fact that you have neo
1:16:26 marxist today that would ascribe to
1:16:29 post-modernism
1:16:31 would you you wouldn't have that would
1:16:33 you um
1:16:36 and if they do they'd probably just do
1:16:37 it
1:16:39 no the main ideas of it no but um but
1:16:42 but many of the critical tools or the um
1:16:44 analytical tools story of um which was
1:16:48 comes from post-modernism or let's just
1:16:50 say a particular branch of it called
1:16:51 post-structuralism which is about text
1:16:53 how you want you read text has has
1:16:55 influenced someone everyone so much now
1:16:57 that i mean as i said most of the of
1:16:59 your viewers and
1:17:01 everyone today if you use the word
1:17:03 narrative a lot like
1:17:04 when you talk about narratives
1:17:05 narratives this is from post-modernist
1:17:07 um thinkers they popularized that that
1:17:10 using that term
1:17:13 that are popular and are told and
1:17:15 authoritative um in society so one would
1:17:18 argue then that they could be that some
1:17:21 post some neo-marxist can use some
1:17:25 post-modernist thinking
1:17:27 in that
1:17:29 yeah as a tool in the attempt to
1:17:32 basically remove the cultural hegemony
1:17:34 or the ideological hegemony that's based
1:17:36 on some kind of hierarchy of course
1:17:38 uh in order for the the working class to
1:17:42 rise up and realize that they should
1:17:44 fulfill this marxist dream yeah okay so
1:17:49 the minute the minute they uh the minute
1:17:51 they near marxist says you know what uh
1:17:53 there shouldn't be a ruling um
1:17:56 a ruling um ideology anymore um they
1:18:00 cease being near marxist and they then
1:18:03 be and they then become you could say um
1:18:05 postmodernism
1:18:06 as soon as they reject
1:18:08 meta narratives or any particular ruling
1:18:10 system in a lot of ways the way to put a
1:18:12 postmodernist to you forward to you is
1:18:14 in a way they're kind of like um
1:18:16 a political existentialist maybe the
1:18:18 best way of maybe a good a way to better
1:18:21 understand it a political existentialist
1:18:24 that the true liberation of the
1:18:25 individual from in society from all
1:18:28 narratives imposed upon them from all um
1:18:32 authorities whether it's linguistic
1:18:33 authorities whether it's
1:18:35 morality authorities worldview
1:18:37 authorities complete freedom and um
1:18:40 sovereignty of the individual against
1:18:42 all these things in society which
1:18:44 evolves which means that there can't be
1:18:46 one dominant culture in that society
1:18:48 that makes you in a way you could say a
1:18:51 post-marxist
1:18:53 yeah man look this is like the
1:18:54 deification of man that's what it is
1:18:56 they want man to be absolutely free and
1:18:58 he can never be absolutely free this is
1:19:00 a feature of divinity allah is
1:19:03 absolutely free
1:19:05 he is totally independent
1:19:08 self-subsisting
1:19:09 this is this is this is shaytan's work
1:19:11 bro
1:19:15 you know what i'll just just to
1:19:16 highlight some things just so you
1:19:18 understand it even better with when you
1:19:20 said um he when referring to man or like
1:19:23 mankind what have you um the the
1:19:25 post-modernist or the post-structures
1:19:27 would simply say that um you're
1:19:30 you could have said she right but you
1:19:31 picked he
1:19:32 and so in essence you've given a
1:19:34 privilege to picking one particular
1:19:37 description of the script or gender um
1:19:41 gender of of a word gendered word over
1:19:44 the other which in your mind
1:19:46 in essence shows they'll say that you um
1:19:50 give um
1:19:52 men males more privilege than females
1:19:54 which is a narrative which is in has
1:19:56 been inculcated in your mind and it's
1:19:57 part of a the system
1:20:00 part of the hierarchical structures that
1:20:02 you
1:20:03 were raised with and you need to
1:20:04 liberate yourself from and it's it's um
1:20:08 it's uh
1:20:09 and
1:20:11 that's in essence that the kind of
1:20:12 arguments they will make from that basis
1:20:14 and of course when you ask me about
1:20:16 there's there's a good chronic verse you
1:20:18 could say um that might respond which is
1:20:21 um hierarchy is natural in the quran
1:20:24 what does it say about this it says that
1:20:25 you know allah has raised some people to
1:20:27 you know above others
1:20:29 to to to test them by what they've been
1:20:31 giving them
1:20:32 sure everything whether they will be of
1:20:34 service to other people's paraphrase um
1:20:36 so
1:20:37 we have social hierarchies too like even
1:20:39 with the family like you know the role
1:20:41 of
1:20:42 you know the husband and the wife there
1:20:44 is an obvious hierarchy there yes it's a
1:20:46 complementarian system but there is a
1:20:47 form of a hierarchy so yeah in islam but
1:20:51 not i was not for the not for postmark
1:20:53 system yeah for sure for sure now okay
1:20:55 because there's a lot here bro
1:20:57 i think the the next question which is
1:20:58 very important is well then let's focus
1:21:00 on some key particular manifestations of
1:21:03 post-modernism
1:21:06 you know what particular manifestations
1:21:08 of post-modernism are more most
1:21:09 prominent now because i want to link
1:21:11 this to
1:21:12 critical race theory i want to link this
1:21:14 to how to avoid the kind of epistemic
1:21:17 and metaphysical pitfalls or
1:21:20 lizard holes if you like you know we
1:21:21 don't want muslims in
1:21:24 you know sharing islam academically
1:21:25 intellectually we don't want you know
1:21:26 muslims in general adopting these
1:21:29 worldviews these perspectives that are
1:21:32 alien to the islamic tradition and so i
1:21:34 think the next question is important is
1:21:36 well let's focus on key prominent
1:21:39 manifestations of
1:21:40 post-modernism and then let's continue
1:21:43 the conversation how to deal with them
1:21:45 and then i want to bring in critical
1:21:47 race theory inshallah yeah okay
1:21:49 so um
1:21:50 the the neil marxists in their attempt
1:21:52 to uh to take down the the man
1:21:56 the system um it was they they uh they
1:22:00 argued so uh theodore adorno and hulk
1:22:02 heimer and
1:22:04 herbert marcuza and many others which
1:22:05 weren't the kind of the neo-marxists who
1:22:07 set up what's called the frankfurt
1:22:09 school
1:22:11 they uh they talked about the need to
1:22:14 engage
1:22:15 any minority or disenfranchised
1:22:19 classification or grouping so
1:22:21 women for example
1:22:23 people have disabilities
1:22:25 anyone who is basically
1:22:27 um
1:22:28 not
1:22:30 what they deem to be part of deemed to
1:22:32 be the the normal for that society or
1:22:34 the the privileged group in our society
1:22:36 um should be engaged and in essence uh
1:22:40 the the if if everyone was made equal
1:22:42 culturally equal across the board if
1:22:44 everyone was made absolutely equal
1:22:47 and there was no differentiation between
1:22:49 them uh then what you you you would take
1:22:52 down the system automatically because if
1:22:53 system has no hierarchy then there is no
1:22:55 more ruling uh ruling bourgeois class
1:22:57 anymore everyone becomes one class right
1:23:00 so
1:23:00 the working class is one group that the
1:23:02 marxist cared about the milk but that's
1:23:03 that was their that's their group
1:23:05 but they were going to use multiple
1:23:06 different groups uh to do to co they're
1:23:09 going to co-opt them and they're going
1:23:10 to use them to take down the same system
1:23:13 so
1:23:14 they will view that they can take down a
1:23:16 the patriarchy or a male-dominated or
1:23:19 the male dominated
1:23:20 system uh and make women equal to men in
1:23:23 all ways this would get them closer to
1:23:25 that absolute equality that they want
1:23:27 the one class system of
1:23:29 of everyone's the proletariat for
1:23:31 example
1:23:32 that was their goal um
1:23:35 okay so then how does it manifest well
1:23:39 now
1:23:40 we know of for example feminism is one
1:23:42 particular um
1:23:43 case now feminism has
1:23:46 feminism is really a term in the west i
1:23:48 suppose that the best translation i
1:23:49 would say for feminism if you'd like to
1:23:51 really understand it is because liberals
1:23:52 can be feminists too um is feminism is
1:23:55 simply women too
1:23:57 is with the best way of putting it so if
1:23:58 you're a liberal and when the liberals
1:24:00 brought in liberalism they first brought
1:24:01 it only for men first they said like men
1:24:03 have these rights and they can vote well
1:24:06 men of a certain um amount that owns a
1:24:08 certain clerk that their certain wealth
1:24:10 and their certain class um so but then
1:24:12 eventually women should also be able to
1:24:14 vote too you know women should also have
1:24:16 these right property rights too that's
1:24:17 what feminism was initially
1:24:20 so the socialists and marxist and others
1:24:22 when they um
1:24:24 get kind of tried to invoke or get
1:24:26 feminism um co-opted for themselves and
1:24:29 there's now marxist feminism socialist
1:24:30 feminism that karl marx argued that
1:24:33 um the families unit
1:24:36 of the the husband and the wife and so
1:24:38 on is actually a microcosm of capitalist
1:24:41 society the way you have the the
1:24:43 bourgeois class the man um getting free
1:24:46 labor or enjoying or exploiting the
1:24:48 labor of those subordinate to him in the
1:24:51 in the in the family so this was
1:24:52 actually you know karl marx is making
1:24:53 making an argument like this so then the
1:24:56 idea that women um
1:24:59 weren't working in
1:25:00 having jobs and or going out to
1:25:03 in the factories and things like that so
1:25:05 the marxists were like we need to
1:25:06 actually make women equal they should we
1:25:08 should change the culture of society
1:25:10 such that women will no longer
1:25:12 financially depend on men and if they
1:25:14 don't depend on men just like if the
1:25:16 workers don't depend on the bourgeois
1:25:18 ultimately uh the man the factory
1:25:20 managers but they can you know
1:25:22 own the means of production themselves
1:25:23 they'll be free likewise if women had
1:25:25 access to
1:25:27 working in the factory um
1:25:29 and getting money for themselves they
1:25:31 would be free because they would be free
1:25:33 from um depending on men
1:25:36 as well so they should so this kind of
1:25:38 idea that women could only be free truly
1:25:42 if they were
1:25:43 doing a nine to five slog in the factory
1:25:45 um like like men were doing or in
1:25:48 reality it was maybe nine to eight
1:25:50 because it was long hours back then um
1:25:52 that somehow frees women is something
1:25:54 that these neo-marxist kind of you know
1:25:56 uh push and eventually the idea of the
1:25:58 family structure was viewed as as a
1:26:01 microcosm of capitalism and therefore
1:26:03 the nuclear family the traditional
1:26:05 family uh was to be
1:26:07 um discouraged as a norm so they don't
1:26:10 say it's wrong to do it to have a
1:26:12 traditional family they say that it
1:26:13 can't be normalized uh you can have
1:26:16 they'll say you should we should promote
1:26:18 every type of family structure any
1:26:20 arrangement or family whether it's
1:26:21 single mother or single father or or two
1:26:24 fathers or two mothers whatever you we
1:26:26 we want to make it um there is no normal
1:26:29 family and so they so when they attack
1:26:31 the nuclear family it wasn't to say we
1:26:33 want to ban it or abolish it no no they
1:26:35 just wanted to make it morally equal to
1:26:38 any other kind of family even no family
1:26:41 right because this will help them in the
1:26:44 eventual destruction of any type of
1:26:45 hierarchy
1:26:47 yes
1:26:48 um
1:26:52 um this is not only the new marxist
1:26:56 approach this is the post-modernist
1:26:58 approach too
1:27:00 yes so because because they both want to
1:27:02 remove hierarchy the postmodernists want
1:27:05 to move hierarchy in these kind of
1:27:06 structures
1:27:08 in order to have their kind of i don't
1:27:09 know
1:27:10 just allow the individual to be as free
1:27:12 as they want
1:27:13 and which in reality he's not really
1:27:15 free because you mentioned earlier he's
1:27:17 going to be a slave to his kind of
1:27:18 shahawad his blame really desires
1:27:21 yeah but
1:27:22 the post the the mark the neo-marxist
1:27:25 wants to remove hierarchy because they
1:27:27 want marxism to manifest itself and that
1:27:29 can only happen if you remove the
1:27:30 current
1:27:32 hierarchy because that's what's creating
1:27:33 the cultural uh hegemony which is
1:27:36 preventing people from uprising correct
1:27:39 yeah yeah so really you have you have
1:27:41 really intelligently because i've
1:27:43 listened to a few people
1:27:45 talking about these concepts and i
1:27:46 haven't really understood it but i i
1:27:48 think i'm getting it now it's up for her
1:27:49 so i know it's been messy but it's been
1:27:51 very very transformative intellectually
1:27:53 so
1:27:56 so
1:27:58 you could really summarize this by
1:28:00 saying the neo marxists
1:28:03 they want to do what the postmodernists
1:28:05 want to do
1:28:06 but they but they they're but their ends
1:28:08 are different
1:28:10 for the
1:28:11 marxist he was he or she wants to remove
1:28:16 the
1:28:16 cultural hegemony therefore the
1:28:19 hierarchies the structures the hegemony
1:28:23 hegemonic
1:28:25 you know what i mean the
1:28:27 word bro
1:28:30 the
1:28:32 hegemonic structures in society because
1:28:35 those are creating the cultural
1:28:38 dominance and the cultural
1:28:40 propaganda if you like an ideological
1:28:41 propaganda that's keeping those
1:28:43 working-class people
1:28:45 from uprising
1:28:46 so that's why they want to remove it and
1:28:48 that uprising would give you that
1:28:49 marxist utopia but for the
1:28:52 post-modernist they want to achieve that
1:28:54 remove that hierarchy
1:28:56 for their own reasons and you've
1:28:58 mentioned it before concerning there is
1:29:00 no absolute truth there's no mind
1:29:01 independent values no mind independent
1:29:03 truth um things are based on your own
1:29:05 personal historical social cultural
1:29:07 linguistic conduct which is not truth as
1:29:09 well blah blah blah
1:29:10 so they will remove all of that in order
1:29:12 for the individual to be as free as
1:29:14 possible
1:29:15 so they're using the cell okay good so
1:29:17 they're both very dangerous then like
1:29:19 the post-modernist um or you could say
1:29:21 the post marxist
1:29:23 they want to create a cultural anarchy
1:29:25 in a way um as in there is no one
1:29:27 authority every individual is a is a
1:29:30 culture unto themselves um
1:29:32 so you'll see there is no scene
1:29:36 yes what i'm saying is the neil marx is
1:29:37 going to want to want to destroy the
1:29:39 existing hierarchy to replace it with a
1:29:42 one-class um yes
1:29:45 domination so what what i'm getting from
1:29:47 here now is that the most prominent
1:29:50 manifestation of post of neo-marxism and
1:29:53 post-modernism
1:29:54 is really the destruction of hierarchy
1:29:57 and from an islamic point of view it's
1:30:00 the destruct destruction of
1:30:03 our social political model it's the
1:30:05 destruction of the family it's the
1:30:08 destruct destruction of
1:30:10 the social model of islam
1:30:16 the arabic language uh in in its in its
1:30:19 preeminent role they'll still the
1:30:21 post-modernist would argue there's no
1:30:23 hermeneutics
1:30:25 what they would say is they'll say that
1:30:27 um islam is inc in engenders a the
1:30:31 cultural hegemony of
1:30:33 arabic and arabic culture so they'll say
1:30:36 that islam is in in a way the domination
1:30:38 by arabs over non-arabs because it it
1:30:42 gives privilege to the arabic language
1:30:44 um over other languages because it's
1:30:46 language of the quran the revelation
1:30:48 itself but this this is why we have to
1:30:50 be very careful so
1:30:52 when people in the dawah sharing and
1:30:54 defending islam academically
1:30:55 intellectually when muslims are like in
1:30:57 the academic space
1:30:59 they need to really understand
1:31:01 the dangers of these ideas
1:31:04 oh yeah um i mean i can give you other
1:31:07 examples i've actually encountered
1:31:09 muslims who
1:31:11 argue that muslim civilization or
1:31:12 islamic civilization um it was
1:31:14 anti-black um was racist now yes there
1:31:17 were cases of
1:31:19 of um uh ethnic preeminence of arabs at
1:31:22 one point uh and then they were
1:31:23 overturned by the abbasid revolution
1:31:25 because it was anti-islamic it was
1:31:26 against islam to do so um and and also
1:31:30 the fact that um the arabs weren't uh it
1:31:33 wasn't anti-black per se it was um at
1:31:35 least the or maids anyway it was more
1:31:37 like um
1:31:39 pro-arab against non-arab but not
1:31:41 against black because they had they had
1:31:43 slaves who were slavs east european
1:31:45 slavs who were viewed to be inferior
1:31:47 inferior types of
1:31:49 bani adam uh inferior people peoples
1:31:53 white slave white east europeans yeah
1:31:55 everyone forgets that that
1:31:57 the arabs thought they were at least the
1:31:58 omeids anyway maybe they were the more
1:32:00 preeminent um group of people and um a
1:32:04 lot of these neil marx of postmarks
1:32:05 would would uh if they were to apply
1:32:07 exact same mythology and some have to
1:32:09 islamic civilization history as well as
1:32:12 um
1:32:13 islam itself they'll say that this is
1:32:14 pro-arab it is arab privilege arab
1:32:17 supremacy arab superiority
1:32:19 um and
1:32:20 uh
1:32:21 and and you can't uh and this must be
1:32:23 cut out of islam if the muslims are to
1:32:26 be liberated it must be this
1:32:27 pro-arabness must be cut out all right
1:32:30 and obviously we we act against this and
1:32:32 i look you know i'm you know
1:32:34 we're both well i'm portuguese and
1:32:35 you're um greek we're not
1:32:37 uh strictly middle eastern arabs person
1:32:40 though our ancestries have all kinds of
1:32:41 mixes yeah
1:32:43 but for us ethnicities is irrelevant
1:32:45 it's um the the quran came in the it's
1:32:48 going to come in some language it's not
1:32:49 going to come in gobbledygook has to
1:32:50 come in language
1:32:52 existing people of course it doesn't
1:32:54 matter if it's our it could be i don't
1:32:55 care if it was in swahili in turkish
1:32:58 in uh
1:32:59 mongolian um as long as
1:33:01 allah chooses whatever prophet he wants
1:33:03 to send and to whatever people he wants
1:33:05 to send it to him whatever language that
1:33:07 he wants to reveal his will in and we
1:33:10 accept that it's irrelevant which uh and
1:33:12 the meaning of that language can can be
1:33:15 understood with the language that you
1:33:16 know you may not know arabic but you can
1:33:18 know the meaning of these words by
1:33:20 virtue of translation
1:33:21 and the islamic concepts and values and
1:33:23 ideas are universal and they can be
1:33:25 translated at least
1:33:27 on
1:33:28 in a simple form
1:33:30 in in any language but the the issue
1:33:33 here is this
1:33:34 why is it the case therefore that some
1:33:37 muslim activists are adopting this or
1:33:38 some muslims in academia are adopting
1:33:40 this is it because they cannot see
1:33:44 the
1:33:44 islamic
1:33:46 solutions they can't see what allah is
1:33:48 telling them or how or what allah
1:33:50 expects from them in their current
1:33:52 context because you know the whole idea
1:33:54 of having taqwa the whole idea of having
1:33:56 iman having god consciousness and having
1:33:58 iman is to ask yourself the question
1:34:00 what does allah want from me what is
1:34:02 most pleasing to allah in my particular
1:34:04 context so you have this
1:34:06 you have this person who's sharing and
1:34:08 defending islam you have this academic
1:34:10 who's in the academy and he's muslim
1:34:12 and all of these ideas are now coming to
1:34:15 them right
1:34:16 how do they now
1:34:19 obviously they feel that maybe
1:34:22 neo-marxism and post-modernism is a way
1:34:24 to remove the hierarchy that's going to
1:34:25 give the muslim a sense of freedom but
1:34:28 they don't see where this is leading
1:34:31 and they may be genuine it may come from
1:34:32 a position of class or sincerity
1:34:35 but the issue here is if they're
1:34:37 adopting these alien world views which
1:34:39 are very easily understood to be
1:34:41 extremely problematic that's what you've
1:34:42 just described bro these are the most
1:34:44 dangerous ideas for the muslims
1:34:47 very dangerous and they must be
1:34:48 intellectually full yeah because you're
1:34:51 destroying
1:34:53 key critical aspects of divine guidance
1:34:57 the political authority the social
1:34:59 authority language itself the
1:35:01 understanding of the quran the
1:35:02 understanding of the prophet
1:35:05 the understanding of truth itself the
1:35:07 understanding of morality right all of
1:35:09 these things are totally decimated by
1:35:12 virtue of these uh world views these
1:35:14 ideas neo-marxism post-modernism so
1:35:19 see the the key point i'm trying to
1:35:20 raise here is what do we give them as a
1:35:23 replacement they want tools bro the art
1:35:25 want tools
1:35:27 people in academia want tools let's
1:35:29 assume and we should assume and many are
1:35:32 let's assume they're sincere they want
1:35:34 these tools but all they could see now
1:35:36 is a dominant intellectual space of
1:35:38 pulse modernism
1:35:40 and neo-marxism and they they think they
1:35:42 could use it to achieve a certain goal
1:35:44 for them and the community but they
1:35:46 can't see where it's leading them
1:35:49 what do we give them bro
1:35:51 well i mean um
1:35:53 just to add to that which is um you know
1:35:56 uh
1:35:57 the these post-modernist and
1:35:59 existentialist um concepts uh
1:36:02 from both neil marxis and most well
1:36:05 postmarks
1:36:06 majoritaria
1:36:07 they hold the ideas for example um
1:36:09 postmarks will hold up hold on there is
1:36:10 no absolute interpretation or truth so
1:36:13 the quran can be interpreted any which
1:36:14 way you want um and that's equally valid
1:36:17 if you want to go
1:36:19 i mean it needn't even be a
1:36:22 non-contradictory interpretation if you
1:36:24 some people say i'm going to interpret
1:36:26 the quran and some muslims muslims have
1:36:28 said that they want to interpret the
1:36:30 quran in the way of um of uh justifying
1:36:33 uh same-sex intercourse for example um
1:36:36 there's one particular feminist um
1:36:39 uh
1:36:40 muslim uh who argued that
1:36:43 in some aspects of the crime concerning
1:36:44 gender roles and what have you um she
1:36:47 said we have to learn to say no to the
1:36:48 quran at times
1:36:50 what
1:36:51 say uh yes yes um
1:36:54 uh yeah well you know what i'm gonna
1:36:55 just say it because this is actually
1:36:57 what she's uh she said so amina wadud um
1:37:00 was one that was that was the individual
1:37:01 question so that to say no to the quran
1:37:05 on some aspects of it presumably
1:37:07 concerning gender because that's what
1:37:09 she's um involved uh much writing in
1:37:12 um uh and also the idea that to say that
1:37:14 there is kuffar those who are who reject
1:37:17 the truth are morally wrong for doing so
1:37:19 and will be punished will be will be
1:37:21 challenged by these possibilities simply
1:37:22 saying that um how dare you impose uh
1:37:25 your uh meta narrative on other people's
1:37:28 um
1:37:28 that's your truth everyone's truth is
1:37:31 equal and it's not that you you say look
1:37:33 i look i have my truth and you know like
1:37:35 dean and kamalia dean you know to you
1:37:37 your
1:37:38 dean and your your practice your way of
1:37:40 life to me my practice my way of life
1:37:42 but i will believe that i will believe
1:37:44 that you're wrong but i'm not going to
1:37:46 physically force you to become muslim
1:37:49 that's no longer sufficient to merely
1:37:52 say that your way of life is superior is
1:37:54 the truth is a would be considered to be
1:37:56 a a type of micro aggression um
1:37:59 using their terminology um
1:38:02 in that you're now imposing you're now
1:38:03 restricting you're now uh oppressing
1:38:06 other people even though you're not
1:38:07 physically doing it you're not forcing
1:38:09 them you're not hurting them you're not
1:38:10 insulting them
1:38:12 how did they run away from the idea that
1:38:14 of of their truth that they also
1:38:16 obviously have to believe in the truth
1:38:18 that there is no absolute truth
1:38:20 so how do they how do they escape that
1:38:24 well i mean the contradiction obviously
1:38:26 you know that's the that's the funniest
1:38:27 uh that's the funny thing about the
1:38:29 famous saying is that there's no
1:38:30 absolute there's no absolute truth
1:38:32 absolutely
1:38:33 there's absolutely no absolute truth um
1:38:35 uh well of course it's a
1:38:36 self-contradiction
1:38:38 um but for them they they say it's
1:38:41 irrelevant
1:38:42 um
1:38:43 it's irrelevant uh what individuals
1:38:46 think is the truth to any other
1:38:48 individual
1:38:49 right it's just irrelevant right so your
1:38:51 interpretation reality is your way and
1:38:53 there's no way you can ever
1:38:56 uh you could ever convince another
1:38:58 person to see reality the same way you
1:39:01 see reality so they say that truth is
1:39:03 your truth
1:39:05 okay and they also have terms like lived
1:39:07 experience they'll say that for example
1:39:10 uh if you produce um a world view or you
1:39:13 think you have an idea um based on your
1:39:16 experiences they'll say that
1:39:18 uh it is uh it is just your lived
1:39:20 experience and you can't really make
1:39:22 someone else have a different lived
1:39:24 experience and that's therefore you
1:39:25 can't tell them to have a different
1:39:26 conclusion
1:39:28 um about yes
1:39:29 so how do we so how do we empower these
1:39:32 academics the muslim gods you want to
1:39:35 share some academically and
1:39:37 intellectually to obviously realize how
1:39:39 post-modernism and
1:39:41 um and neo-marxism is is is
1:39:44 fundamentally problematic so how do we
1:39:46 empower them to recognize that and to
1:39:49 give them an alternative from our
1:39:51 tradition bro this is important how do
1:39:53 we do that what do we what do we do what
1:39:54 do we say to them
1:39:56 well you see one of the problems about
1:39:58 this is that
1:39:59 um the the worst falsehoods are
1:40:03 are
1:40:04 kind of
1:40:04 sugar coated in
1:40:06 in parts of truth so some of you so
1:40:09 basically uh what you might call
1:40:10 post-modernism or post-structuralism is
1:40:12 dressed in the garb of respectability as
1:40:16 a objective analytical tool even
1:40:18 ironically
1:40:19 objective how can it be objective if it
1:40:21 says that everything's objective but
1:40:22 anyway um it it promises to give you
1:40:25 hidden secret truths in cultural texts
1:40:29 uh that you analyze uh it's almost like
1:40:32 i call it the materialist bartonia you
1:40:34 know the
1:40:35 of the muslim history who they they
1:40:38 reckon they could claim they could see a
1:40:40 hidden esoteric truth in this
1:40:43 which people couldn't uh wouldn't see
1:40:45 clearly but they say oh but you know we
1:40:46 can just show you that this is what it
1:40:47 really means here and so on and so forth
1:40:49 it gives you hidden truths it promises
1:40:51 hidden truths it's very enticing
1:40:54 to
1:40:55 uh to people who encounter muslim
1:40:57 academics who don't know any better
1:40:59 because it promises to help them with
1:41:01 their analytical um
1:41:03 abilities and so on and so forth so for
1:41:05 example i've just given you one example
1:41:07 of this so they'll say
1:41:08 uh they'll say things like uh that the
1:41:12 american political system was designed
1:41:14 with the object of suppressing um
1:41:17 african-americans that's what it was
1:41:18 designed primarily to do suppress
1:41:20 african-americans in fact all western
1:41:22 systems um
1:41:24 are designed to give white white people
1:41:26 supremacy or what have you
1:41:27 but but many of these political systems
1:41:29 emerge at times before colonialism
1:41:31 before their people even left the shores
1:41:32 of their countries and so
1:41:35 these countries like england or
1:41:36 poland or lithuania what have you they
1:41:38 didn't really design systems with the
1:41:40 idea of
1:41:41 giving privilege to people of a
1:41:42 particular skin colour right
1:41:45 but the argument is oh but this is um
1:41:47 it's it's assumed it's it's a it's a
1:41:49 given from their worldview that they're
1:41:50 gonna they refer to their own people and
1:41:53 so well um
1:41:55 like i just give you example if that
1:41:56 were true if that were true there was a
1:41:59 case a legal case
1:42:01 i believe it was in the 18th century
1:42:02 where there was a slave ship and it came
1:42:04 to um
1:42:06 plymouth in in england before going off
1:42:08 to north american colonies and
1:42:11 a slave from west africa jumped off the
1:42:13 ship and you know
1:42:15 tried to escape uh into england and
1:42:17 obviously was captured so
1:42:20 there was a legal case because
1:42:22 uh the slave owner what owner wanted to
1:42:25 have this
1:42:26 he fought with his slave back
1:42:28 but there was an argument saying that
1:42:29 but is does he count as a property of
1:42:32 the slave as property of the owner
1:42:34 according to the english legal system in
1:42:36 england
1:42:38 and ultimately it was found that no
1:42:40 there is no precedence in england for
1:42:42 slavery um uh in in the law in the law
1:42:45 system and therefore the slave was free
1:42:47 to go
1:42:48 because he had escaped from the ship and
1:42:50 this way he got the famous saying that
1:42:52 um
1:42:54 from that case was no person may breathe
1:42:56 the air of england and uh and and uh uh
1:43:00 anyone who breathes the arab england um
1:43:02 is free right
1:43:04 uh because that was a legal prison
1:43:06 because because they didn't have
1:43:07 a law for slavery in england it was
1:43:10 for for property rights or in in these
1:43:13 colony territories which is different
1:43:14 legal jurisdiction
1:43:16 so that just gives you an example of um
1:43:19 how giving it like a
1:43:21 these hidden um these kind of uh uh
1:43:26 hidden
1:43:27 so-called promise of hidden narratives
1:43:28 which explain in almost conspiratorially
1:43:31 um what really is a haphazard historical
1:43:34 phenomenon i mean yes like slavery
1:43:35 existed yes slavery was justified um
1:43:38 and it involved it was justified by
1:43:40 liberalism by the way and it was
1:43:42 justified through a number of means one
1:43:43 of them being um that slaves were
1:43:46 prisons of war john knox used that
1:43:47 argument another one was that um slaves
1:43:50 um don't deserve equal human rights
1:43:52 because they weren't equally human that
1:43:53 was not a justification that was given
1:43:55 to slavery these things are factually
1:43:56 true that happened in in america no one
1:43:59 would disagree that that it was
1:44:01 factually the case that america
1:44:02 initiated those two justifications to
1:44:06 imprison human beings and
1:44:08 force them into almost industrial-like
1:44:10 conditions a slavery of industrial-like
1:44:12 conditions
1:44:13 but the idea that there was some kind of
1:44:15 um
1:44:16 uh
1:44:17 you know slavery was this deliberate
1:44:19 system concocted by a particular race to
1:44:21 enslave another race it historically
1:44:23 doesn't doesn't uh
1:44:25 doesn't fit unfortunately you know human
1:44:28 history because
1:44:29 the romans took slaves and they took
1:44:31 slaves of all kinds of different
1:44:32 ethnicities and so on and so forth the
1:44:34 greeks
1:44:35 took slaves of all kinds uh
1:44:38 the idea that um the west somehow is
1:44:40 especially um white centric or not quite
1:44:43 centric sorry but it's white
1:44:45 supremacists as opposed to
1:44:46 nationally supremacist or national okay
1:44:48 great so you you're given an example
1:44:50 here of how some you know muslim
1:44:53 academics may
1:44:54 be have an affinity right a natural
1:44:56 inclination towards
1:44:59 neo-marxist or post-modern modernist
1:45:01 thinking because
1:45:03 it unpacks the kind of
1:45:06 um
1:45:06 visible lived
1:45:08 oppression that muslims and people of
1:45:11 color face
1:45:12 and because a muslim may have this very
1:45:14 basic understanding of islamic morality
1:45:16 and say yes of course
1:45:18 we should defend the oppressors which uh
1:45:20 sorry uh defender oppressed rather
1:45:24 that wasn't a freudian slave uh we
1:45:26 should defend the the oppressed and
1:45:29 fight against the oppressors you know
1:45:31 they'll have that understanding and
1:45:32 they'll be driven maybe from a very
1:45:34 basic
1:45:35 islamic moral basis but then they'll
1:45:38 adopt these ideologies to try and
1:45:40 dismantle what they think is the system
1:45:42 that produces this type of oppression
1:45:44 and racism and in the modern in the hit
1:45:46 in historically and in the modern world
1:45:49 but what we've been uncovering in this
1:45:51 conversation that in actual fact this is
1:45:53 problematic because the neo-marxists
1:45:55 want that marxist utopia utopian they
1:45:57 want all hierarchy and i cultural
1:46:00 ideology to to to
1:46:02 be uh destroyed
1:46:04 in order to have the marxist utopia and
1:46:07 then you have the post-modernists who
1:46:09 want all hierarchy
1:46:11 to be destroyed in order for to have the
1:46:13 individual to pursue their own
1:46:15 perception of what it means to be
1:46:18 free or absolutely free
1:46:19 and both of those ends are very
1:46:21 problematic from his perspective but
1:46:22 they don't see it they just see
1:46:24 if they only see what's in in front of
1:46:26 their faces they don't see the impact of
1:46:29 these ideas
1:46:30 so
1:46:32 i mean yeah then you won't but the thing
1:46:33 is i'm trying to get this bro is
1:46:36 what do they do then obviously we would
1:46:38 say to them they should they should they
1:46:39 should follow the quran and the sunnah
1:46:41 and the classical understanding of islam
1:46:44 but that's a bit that's sloganeering bro
1:46:46 we don't want to have slogans here we
1:46:47 want to give them something so where do
1:46:49 they go
1:46:50 specifics maybe we should use because
1:46:52 this is linking to what you're saying
1:46:53 about racism
1:46:54 and about this kind of white supremacy
1:46:56 this links to critical race theory maybe
1:46:59 use critical race theory linking it to
1:47:02 the postmodern discourse
1:47:04 and use it as an example of how people
1:47:06 think look this is great we're actually
1:47:09 now fighting against the white oppressor
1:47:11 the colonizers they messed us up from
1:47:14 like all the way from
1:47:16 bangladesh india africa
1:47:18 all around the world
1:47:20 and you know we're suffering from
1:47:21 post-colonial trauma it's because of the
1:47:24 white man right critical race theory is
1:47:27 saying it's the white man there's this
1:47:29 inherent
1:47:30 political sin if you like does that mean
1:47:34 post-colonial uh they they um they call
1:47:36 it post-colonial theory
1:47:38 when it applies to um
1:47:39 uh the western colonization of the world
1:47:41 they call it possible okay brilliant so
1:47:44 so let's use critical race theory as an
1:47:46 example of all of this bro i think this
1:47:47 would really
1:47:49 you know it would be a good end as well
1:47:50 uh the of the end part of this podcast
1:47:53 to now tying all of these ideas so
1:47:56 you've got this a muslim intellectual
1:47:58 more muslim activist that wants to share
1:48:00 in different islam academically
1:48:02 intellectually you've got this muslim
1:48:04 academic they've bought into some of the
1:48:06 kind of
1:48:07 neo-marxist post-modern ideas because
1:48:10 you know they think these hierarchies
1:48:11 need to go go because look muslims are
1:48:14 going to get the sense of freedom and
1:48:15 sense of identity back
1:48:18 and now let's now use critical race
1:48:20 theory as an example of them adopting
1:48:22 these type of ideas and let's show why
1:48:25 it's wrong what the implications are why
1:48:27 it's against the islamic worldview and
1:48:29 what we should adopt in order to solve
1:48:31 this problem
1:48:33 okay so
1:48:34 so but basically here um many muslim
1:48:37 students just not even academic students
1:48:39 that go to universities um
1:48:41 young people want to change the world
1:48:43 for the better they want to improve it
1:48:44 they want to do something they want to
1:48:45 find their place in it
1:48:47 now
1:48:48 if if muslims tell the kids
1:48:51 like or don't get involved in islamic
1:48:52 activism or stay away from
1:48:55 movements or groups which are a peaceful
1:48:57 but they are islamically active and they
1:48:59 they use islamic politics and islamic
1:49:01 world viewing system so if they keep
1:49:03 them away from that the kids are going
1:49:04 to go to university and they're going to
1:49:06 be co-opted by people who say we'll give
1:49:09 you a system you hate injustice great we
1:49:11 will define for you what justice and
1:49:13 justice is and we'll give you uh the
1:49:15 tools and will give you a movement to
1:49:17 join for you to fight against it and
1:49:19 that's what will happen if you don't
1:49:20 give them there's a sorry there's a
1:49:22 famous phrase the christians say the
1:49:25 devil makes work for idol hands
1:49:27 and
1:49:28 that's what was happening now um so
1:49:31 critical race theory uh more
1:49:33 specifically and i'll use it to kind of
1:49:35 highlight um what i'm just saying now
1:49:37 first and foremost there's two big
1:49:39 caveats
1:49:40 or disclaimers i must give and i must be
1:49:42 very very clear about it because
1:49:44 the nature of these ideologies are for
1:49:46 example if you criticize um neil marxes
1:49:49 or marxists they'll say um you you
1:49:51 support the bourgeois capitalists all
1:49:53 right i said no i don't i just don't
1:49:55 think that your solution to the problem
1:49:57 is going to work and that will make
1:49:58 videos probably um likewise if you
1:50:00 criticize feminism they say you're a
1:50:02 misogynist you hate women i say no i
1:50:04 don't i just think that islam gives
1:50:06 better rights for men and women and that
1:50:08 it's not about gender anymore it's about
1:50:10 allah who is has no gender um
1:50:14 but we are all under his agenda right so
1:50:17 we know we're alone we must subscribe to
1:50:19 that so so to this i'll say this um
1:50:22 the the the statistics of racism the uh
1:50:27 gender the
1:50:28 um
1:50:29 income disparity the disparity of
1:50:31 opportunity the police brutality against
1:50:34 african americans or black americans
1:50:36 because the normal culture has changed
1:50:38 this is not in dispute
1:50:41 we all agree with the we can see these
1:50:43 statistics it's quite evident racism is
1:50:46 rampant in the united states of america
1:50:47 there's racism in uk racism in france
1:50:50 racism in all these countries there is
1:50:52 no dispute about the
1:50:54 documented observed statistics observed
1:50:57 phenomena that's not where we there's no
1:50:59 dispute on these we all accept it now
1:51:02 the question is how to explain it and
1:51:04 what's the solution that's where we're
1:51:06 going to have difference of opinion not
1:51:08 that it exists uh whether it's this or
1:51:09 not no we all anyone who's reasonable
1:51:12 would of course agree it exists and it
1:51:15 is endemic it is an epidemic
1:51:18 um
1:51:19 in in in these these states that that's
1:51:21 my first disclaimer
1:51:23 um
1:51:24 the uh the second disclaimer is on
1:51:26 action
1:51:27 skipped my head now i'll probably
1:51:29 probably come to me in a sec um anyway
1:51:31 that's at least the first claim i must i
1:51:33 must
1:51:35 make absolutely clear oh yes the second
1:51:37 disclaimer is this um the other counter
1:51:40 argument they use because they don't
1:51:41 understand anyone that comes from an
1:51:43 islamic perspective even muslims
1:51:45 unfortunately so they'll say oh you
1:51:47 support the conservatives or you support
1:51:49 jordan peterson randomly because jordan
1:51:50 p
1:51:51 will you support the the mainstream
1:51:53 liberals uh or the bourgeois capitalists
1:51:56 um we'll say no because
1:51:58 we criticized them
1:52:00 we started criticizing them first
1:52:02 actually you know um you yourself you
1:52:05 started debating um you know mainstream
1:52:06 liberalism um you know one of the one of
1:52:08 the first to do so in the uk and many
1:52:11 others followed afterwards so we we
1:52:13 refute them uh we we're not conservative
1:52:16 uh
1:52:17 which is an enlightenment school of
1:52:18 thought um which is where
1:52:21 long story short basically it still
1:52:23 believes in individualism and and
1:52:24 liberty and liberal values but it
1:52:26 believes that tradition or institutional
1:52:28 institutions are what is required to
1:52:30 keep a stable society to enjoy your
1:52:32 individual freedom
1:52:33 long story short
1:52:35 we don't believe that as muslims right
1:52:37 the prophet muhammad uh sausage wasn't a
1:52:39 conservative he didn't conserve the
1:52:41 traditions of the pagan arabs
1:52:43 yeah some of it was from ibrahim and
1:52:45 survived okay a lot of it was added on
1:52:47 later they're not to be conserved he was
1:52:50 for change so as muslims we change what
1:52:52 is monka
1:52:53 and we call to what is
1:52:55 and if the mouth is is new for these
1:52:57 people at any point in time so be will
1:52:59 be people will be bringing new things
1:53:02 right also
1:53:03 original religion but they're not new
1:53:05 but anyway we we change what we have to
1:53:07 change we keep what we have to keep
1:53:08 according to the criteria the fur khan
1:53:11 of the dean anyway
1:53:12 so
1:53:13 yeah um i've criticized jordan peterson
1:53:16 on on on a blog and so on and so forth
1:53:18 and and many muslims obviously has has
1:53:21 engaged him and discussed with him
1:53:22 ironically jordan pearson is influenced
1:53:24 by nietzsche funnily enough but that's a
1:53:26 different discussion anyway no those two
1:53:28 disclaimers aside critical race theory
1:53:31 is
1:53:32 um emerged from um
1:53:34 from
1:53:35 uh near marks this discourse some would
1:53:38 say so it's heavily influenced it's not
1:53:40 necessarily postponed but uh you can be
1:53:42 a post marxist and be uh using critical
1:53:45 race theory or you can be
1:53:47 um
1:53:47 not post marxists or not postmodern and
1:53:50 use critical race theory you don't have
1:53:51 to be a postmodernist per se but it's
1:53:54 heavily involved so what does it say and
1:53:56 basically is this so the marxists made
1:53:59 their view of society all about the
1:54:01 working class as the oppressed class
1:54:03 against the proletariat and they explain
1:54:05 all social phenomena as a fight between
1:54:08 the bourgeois and the working class
1:54:11 so then you had these feminisms that
1:54:13 arose that um
1:54:16 uh critical gender studies and what have
1:54:17 you that said no no
1:54:19 they didn't discard that they simply
1:54:21 said oh and there's also a battle a
1:54:23 binary uh which is also finally a
1:54:26 post-modernist um
1:54:28 no-no a binary between the patriarchy
1:54:31 the ruling male class and women who are
1:54:34 the oppressed class and critical race
1:54:36 theory says um actually our lens is the
1:54:39 binary between the white supremacy and
1:54:43 um the uh marginalized minorities um
1:54:47 which could either be african-americans
1:54:49 or black americans or hispanics or
1:54:51 whomever
1:54:52 so these two that's critical race theory
1:54:56 um
1:54:56 it's it's it's
1:54:58 it's involved in it is both a drive to
1:55:01 change that as well as uh to explain it
1:55:03 so it would explain racism as simply um
1:55:07 the suppres the active suppression and
1:55:09 maintenance of the system by the whites
1:55:12 the white
1:55:12 supremacy
1:55:14 and it would uh and it tries to explain
1:55:16 things like the civil rights movements
1:55:17 that and the changes that came up with
1:55:19 the civil rights which actually granted
1:55:21 it eliminated segregation in the
1:55:23 southern states of america the northern
1:55:25 states didn't have liberation but the
1:55:26 southern states did after this civil war
1:55:29 or and explains the emancipation of
1:55:31 african americans or black americans and
1:55:33 from slavery simply as
1:55:35 um it was an economic necessity designed
1:55:38 to make black black americans
1:55:39 african-americans feel free but secretly
1:55:42 they were going to be even more
1:55:43 oppressed than before
1:55:45 all right that's one of the the tenets
1:55:47 of um critical race theory it says that
1:55:50 racism is part of the structure
1:55:53 of um american society and we're all
1:55:55 western western governments in sight
1:55:57 it's actually part of the they call it
1:55:59 structural racism not institutional
1:56:00 racism structural racism which
1:56:03 ironically came from the marxist they
1:56:04 were the first to make that use that
1:56:05 term structural racist which comes from
1:56:08 marxist um
1:56:10 uh marx's understanding of a structure
1:56:12 that arises from the economic system and
1:56:14 so the solutions to this they say it
1:56:16 could be caused by the the wealth
1:56:18 inequality so if the the african
1:56:20 americans or black americans are not
1:56:22 owning um an equal proportion of their
1:56:24 resources in america the the economic
1:56:26 disparity will lead to um
1:56:29 will create social domination against
1:56:31 blacks or african-americans or
1:56:34 they'll say that
1:56:35 in order to have true social justice you
1:56:37 need to
1:56:39 have
1:56:40 reparations for slavery and
1:56:42 redistribution of the wealth uh to the
1:56:45 african-americans or black americans and
1:56:46 now feminists will say redistribution of
1:56:48 wealth from make equal between males and
1:56:50 females and of course um the marks the
1:56:53 proper markets will say and some will
1:56:55 say simply the redistribution of wealth
1:56:57 from the bourgeois uh make it equal to
1:57:00 the polar terrorists everyone has the
1:57:01 same
1:57:02 kind of wealth more
1:57:04 so you see the same um
1:57:06 the same
1:57:07 solutions and same and similar analysis
1:57:09 is used by neo-marxist and
1:57:11 uh by uh you know critical gender
1:57:14 studies people or uh critical race
1:57:16 theory and so on and so forth but
1:57:18 but the the difference is that marxists
1:57:21 will actually criticize critical race
1:57:22 theories saying look uh we we think that
1:57:25 racism can be explained as a as
1:57:27 something uh between the dynamic of the
1:57:30 bourgeois and the class uh is a class
1:57:33 warfare we can use our our model to
1:57:35 explain it whereas critical race they
1:57:36 would saying no no our model explains it
1:57:38 which is it's actually a fight between
1:57:40 races not a fight between classes right
1:57:43 that's where you get the divergent
1:57:45 opinions between the two so marxists
1:57:46 will criticize critical race theories
1:57:48 quicker race days with criticized
1:57:49 marxists um even though they have
1:57:52 sometimes very similar ideas um that
1:57:54 that they link to
1:57:56 each other now post-modernist um
1:57:58 critical race theorists will say that
1:58:01 language itself encodes racism so if you
1:58:04 say that um
1:58:07 you know
1:58:08 darkness and light darkness is bad light
1:58:11 lightness or light is good um so
1:58:14 the the terminals using the quran by the
1:58:16 way from darkness to light yeah
1:58:18 they'll say that that encodes a racism
1:58:20 that dark is bad
1:58:23 and light is good and that's what and
1:58:25 that gives you subconsciously the idea
1:58:27 that black people are bad and are
1:58:29 inferior to to white people they will
1:58:31 make that kind of argument and they
1:58:33 could then you label that against the
1:58:34 quran itself and say that the quran
1:58:36 itself actually has these tropes even
1:58:38 though the idea of darkness and light is
1:58:40 a is a well-known semetic trope from
1:58:42 from all the abrahamic religions um
1:58:45 going up to almost even the sumerians
1:58:47 the idea that it's not about skin color
1:58:49 it's about the fact that if there's no
1:58:51 light you can't see where you're going
1:58:52 you're blind effectively and isn't it
1:58:54 good to see what's happening around to
1:58:55 see reality around you so that's where
1:58:57 it comes from but they would simply oh
1:58:59 you know it secretly encodes
1:59:01 white supremacy in that
1:59:03 in that in those that that binary
1:59:06 descriptions of lightness being better
1:59:08 than darkness
1:59:09 so
1:59:11 critical race theory will argue that um
1:59:14 any time the american government or any
1:59:16 western government make makes any laws
1:59:18 that um bans racism bans racial hate
1:59:21 it's secretly um
1:59:23 uh it's secretly hiding
1:59:26 its racism it's going it's secretly
1:59:28 exploiting the minority to make them
1:59:30 even more oppressed and but by making
1:59:33 them think that there's no more racism
1:59:35 but secretly there is racism going on so
1:59:37 they'll say it's all insidious it's all
1:59:39 a uh a hidden plan it's almost like a
1:59:41 conspiracy theory and look here's the
1:59:43 thing um look you know
1:59:46 we're not big fans of liberalism but
1:59:48 liberals do believe at least today that
1:59:50 racism is bad and they are against it
1:59:52 and they're against racial hate
1:59:53 um but but and they're gonna implement
1:59:56 policies against it they're not going to
1:59:58 implement welfare
2:00:00 redistribution policies just you know
2:00:02 like take money from the rich and take
2:00:04 money from any old white person based on
2:00:06 their race and give it to people of a
2:00:08 different race because that's that's
2:00:10 liberalism can't do that because that
2:00:11 would be racist according to
2:00:12 liberalism's own view but critical race
2:00:14 theorists will say no no that's what we
2:00:16 call white fragility
2:00:18 um that's where white people where as
2:00:20 soon as you ask them to do something
2:00:22 that will redress the inequality in
2:00:24 society and remove their privilege they
2:00:27 get all defensive about it what have you
2:00:29 and you say no it's not right fragility
2:00:33 it's just liberals can't justify that
2:00:35 from their own world view right they
2:00:36 don't that you can take people money
2:00:38 from people based on race uh they that
2:00:40 they can't justify that they find
2:00:42 difficult they can't
2:00:44 so so the problem with critical race
2:00:45 theory uh
2:00:47 not that uh in areas where
2:00:49 uh because many muslims who will know
2:00:51 some of this stuff and they'll say look
2:00:53 abdullah what is wrong
2:00:55 with simply believing that the west is
2:00:58 coordinated to be white supremacist
2:01:00 right i mean surely that's not that's
2:01:02 not haram like it's not against islam to
2:01:04 believe that there's a you know a white
2:01:06 supremacist conspiracy
2:01:08 deliberately sewn in i said no it's not
2:01:11 haram per se if you want to take just
2:01:13 that element of critical race theory and
2:01:15 that's not the only element it has by
2:01:16 the way
2:01:17 but it it it obscures your ability to
2:01:21 analyze reality itself because we have a
2:01:23 better explanation
2:01:24 has better explanation for this which is
2:01:27 um you can explain not just racism in
2:01:29 america um or in any nation state um
2:01:33 from the summit perspective but pro
2:01:35 history um
2:01:38 right the idea that you give
2:01:41 nationalism and arrogance yeah yeah
2:01:43 nationalism or tribalism or like my in
2:01:45 group is is like better or i'm going to
2:01:47 give them privilege than your than other
2:01:48 groups and cuban arrogance right and i'm
2:01:51 going to give you example and um uh
2:01:53 which
2:01:54 would be pertinent to your um your your
2:01:56 background but not not to you uh which
2:01:58 is um the ancient greeks right so the
2:02:00 ancient greeks um we had this
2:02:03 interesting narrative about how they
2:02:05 viewed themselves in the world relative
2:02:06 to the barbarians um
2:02:08 they thought that
2:02:10 the uh the ones to the north of them so
2:02:12 basically europe white europeans you
2:02:14 know uh those two of them were basically
2:02:16 just really passionate but didn't have
2:02:18 intellect they were like like just
2:02:20 savages basically
2:02:21 and that in the south in egypt
2:02:24 they were very intellectual very clever
2:02:26 because of course they were clever very
2:02:27 vast civilization but they were very
2:02:29 cold they didn't have passion right so
2:02:32 the greeks were the perfect mix
2:02:34 right of both passion and intellect
2:02:37 right
2:02:37 that's how they viewed uh they viewed
2:02:40 themselves yes yeah
2:02:42 i i see no denial from hands on that
2:02:44 just a curious silence it is what it is
2:02:46 bro it is what it is
2:02:49 um
2:02:51 some of my egyptian friends would used
2:02:52 to tell me that egyptians are very
2:02:53 passionate so i don't so um
2:02:56 it's funny that ancient groups would
2:02:57 describe egyptians as being cold and
2:02:59 calculating
2:03:01 um so anyway but my point is that
2:03:03 historically i mean even to ancient
2:03:05 china they would call themselves the
2:03:06 ancient chinese recordings of the middle
2:03:07 kingdom everyone else are like the ex
2:03:09 the barbarians every uh race or
2:03:12 ethnicity or even tribe thought they
2:03:14 were the best and everyone else was not
2:03:16 as best good as them kid or they would
2:03:19 um they would privilege themselves over
2:03:21 all the people uh as the thing that's
2:03:23 been saying
2:03:24 me against my brother me my brother
2:03:26 against my cousin me my brother my
2:03:28 cousin against the stranger
2:03:30 okay
2:03:31 we can explain it from a human phenomena
2:03:33 of jahalia of ignorance without guided
2:03:36 by revelation here's how humans act look
2:03:38 in india you have oppression against
2:03:41 muslims even though they are of the same
2:03:43 ethnicities
2:03:45 as those and same language as those
2:03:47 around them but it's because um now
2:03:50 hinduism is being created to innate and
2:03:52 national group and they're going to be
2:03:54 there's a discrimination there's a lack
2:03:56 of job opportunities there's violence
2:03:58 there's um police brutality all the same
2:04:00 phenomenon that you see and i'll end my
2:04:02 point with this absurdity i noticed
2:04:04 someone tried to apply critical race
2:04:06 theory in in modern day south africa to
2:04:08 explain the writ the racism between uh
2:04:11 south uh south africans and uh
2:04:14 mozambicans who came in as immigrants to
2:04:16 south africa muslim-speaking speak
2:04:18 portuguese
2:04:19 and south africans uh they speak a
2:04:22 variety of their own languages but they
2:04:23 also speak english as the official
2:04:24 language
2:04:25 and so because they heard these
2:04:27 different language speakers even though
2:04:28 they're not from a they're not from a
2:04:30 very distant part of the world from
2:04:32 themselves and they're not white or
2:04:34 there's no white you know but simply by
2:04:36 the difference of that language
2:04:38 portuguese in english um they viewed
2:04:39 them as different they viewed them as
2:04:41 foreigners they uh there's uh violence
2:04:43 against uh muslim beacons living in
2:04:45 south africa discrimination racism and
2:04:47 so on and so forth and the those i wrote
2:04:50 i read a paper on this by a critical
2:04:51 race theorist who tried to explain it as
2:04:53 um residual white supremacy that resides
2:04:56 in the hearts of the previously
2:04:58 subjugated people of the south the south
2:05:00 african people were so good
2:05:02 it's like no i can think of a simpler
2:05:04 explanation occam's razor
2:05:06 so anyway um
2:05:08 so so critical race theory um i mean
2:05:10 i've written some articles about it um
2:05:13 on my blog but uh the the foundation
2:05:16 on this day just wanna just uh put a
2:05:18 link up here just to promote the course
2:05:19 that you're doing with the quran
2:05:21 institute people please go to the quran
2:05:23 or institute forward slash
2:05:26 f-e-m-c-rt you can see the link here or
2:05:28 if you're listening to this then go to
2:05:30 the quran dot institute forward slash
2:05:33 f-e-m-c-rt
2:05:35 because uh ustad
2:05:37 abdullah is going to be expanding on
2:05:39 some of these very complicated topics
2:05:41 and concepts that he's been introducing
2:05:43 today and you know
2:05:45 the main point of this one of the main
2:05:47 points of this of these type of podcast
2:05:49 is for you to continue your intellectual
2:05:50 journey so you could access the speakers
2:05:53 go on their websites
2:05:55 um go on the attend their courses in
2:05:57 order for you to unpack and understand
2:06:00 and internalize these ideas even further
2:06:02 in order for you to basically you know
2:06:05 share islam internalize islam and defend
2:06:08 islam as well and help others to do so
2:06:10 the same so don't think this is like
2:06:12 you know a two-hour podcast that's going
2:06:14 to give you everything on these topics
2:06:15 because there's been a few names that
2:06:17 even abdullah has mentioned that i don't
2:06:18 think i've ever heard of so it's a lot
2:06:20 of reading for me as well but yeah so
2:06:22 please everyone go to the quarando
2:06:24 institute
2:06:25 forward slash fem crt and please please
2:06:28 just google abdulla and lucy and look at
2:06:31 his website there's lots of articles in
2:06:33 actual fact i've benefited from his
2:06:35 articles specifically the one concerning
2:06:39 hell the problem of hell
2:06:41 dealing with that issue and and others
2:06:43 as well and he is a reference
2:06:46 alhamdulillah so please explore his work
2:06:48 and please attend this course as well i
2:06:50 wanted to mention this clearly and i'm
2:06:52 going to be putting this on the youtube
2:06:54 description below as well in order for
2:06:56 you guys to be able to access it more
2:06:58 easily so crt see my problem with what
2:07:01 you're saying so far i agree with you by
2:07:03 the way is why
2:07:05 okay maybe that's a big question but why
2:07:08 is it that
2:07:09 activists academics muslim thinkers
2:07:11 people who want to finish your islam
2:07:14 they they adopt world views that are
2:07:17 seemingly alien to the tradition
2:07:20 in order to solve problems
2:07:23 that muslims or even human beings are
2:07:25 facing isn't the whole point of the
2:07:28 furqan you mentioned the quran the
2:07:29 differentiate which is the quran the
2:07:31 whole point of divine guidance the whole
2:07:34 point of the the prophetic sunnah the
2:07:36 prophetic way of the prophet sallallahu
2:07:38 alaihi wasallam isn't that the whole
2:07:40 point
2:07:41 it wasn't that revealed to us in order
2:07:43 to guide our
2:07:45 current affairs and individual affairs
2:07:47 as well why is it this kind of almost
2:07:51 constant pattern of some kind of
2:07:52 ideological inferiority complex that we
2:07:55 have to adopt things that are being used
2:07:57 in academia as if the aquette is as if
2:08:00 the academy
2:08:01 is this objective uh source of reality
2:08:04 which is not true at all there's so many
2:08:06 epistemic biases metaphysical falsities
2:08:09 permeating academy i know i'm a phd
2:08:12 student and i was asked to do some
2:08:13 review of some orientalist articles and
2:08:16 other articles and you could just see
2:08:17 this filtered everywhere it's filtered
2:08:20 it's not filtered it's uh it permeates
2:08:22 uh academic discourse all of these false
2:08:24 epistemic biases and metaphysical
2:08:26 falsities i like to call them
2:08:28 why are we in this situation why can't
2:08:31 we just go to the quran and the
2:08:32 prophetic teachings and the
2:08:33 understanding of the scholars
2:08:35 and use a robust methodology to derive
2:08:38 answers or to solve the current problems
2:08:40 because you did it very simply you just
2:08:41 said it's as severe it's it's uh
2:08:43 tribalism it's kipper it's ego
2:08:46 who solves these problems what solves
2:08:48 these problems it's islam it's tawheed
2:08:51 it's affirming the wonders of allah it's
2:08:54 worshipping allah it's understanding who
2:08:56 allah is and who you are in relation to
2:08:59 allah we've lost the doubt the dour
2:09:01 dynamic on this on this issue and we've
2:09:04 almost secularized our discourse yeah
2:09:06 let's you say rt because it's achieving
2:09:09 a goal that we like as well
2:09:11 even though it could be used against us
2:09:13 in the future yeah let's use
2:09:15 post-modernism because it's removing the
2:09:17 hierarchies that are pressing the
2:09:18 muslims and islam right in the islamic
2:09:20 community
2:09:22 and let's just use it for now but then
2:09:24 they'll realize in the next 10 15 20
2:09:26 years
2:09:27 we're going to have a generation of
2:09:29 muslims that may not be muslim anymore
2:09:30 just by virtue of what they believe in
2:09:32 their worldview this is so critical bro
2:09:36 to the point is we need another couple
2:09:38 of podcasters to unpack some of these
2:09:39 issues because this was just like i just
2:09:41 felt it was like there's a lot right
2:09:43 there's so much more to unpack and i'm
2:09:45 definitely going to have you back
2:09:47 but the point here is so
2:09:50 yeah address what i'm saying address my
2:09:52 passion here
2:09:54 oh that's because you're greek of course
2:09:56 that's where there you go absolutely we
2:09:59 break we break plates at weddings
2:10:03 all right so uh so uh let me break it
2:10:05 down if not it's not doing with plates
2:10:07 um so
2:10:08 so basically what i mean what you say is
2:10:11 is is true and it's due to a lack of
2:10:15 confidence in um an islamic lack of
2:10:17 knowledge about the islamic solution
2:10:19 um many muslims think that you're if
2:10:21 you're in the west uh the west won't
2:10:23 want to hear about islam in dealing with
2:10:25 these problems they have so instead you
2:10:27 have to just use their own things so for
2:10:29 example if you want to argue that
2:10:31 muslims should have riots then the left
2:10:33 will say um then you need to join us and
2:10:35 go on lgbtq relationship promotion
2:10:38 platforms that promote these
2:10:40 relationships equal to it to
2:10:42 heteronormative um relations i.e you
2:10:45 know the different sex marriage you know
2:10:46 the same same um the nuclear family all
2:10:49 this stuff uh because if you want if you
2:10:51 want muslim rights to be uh protected
2:10:54 against conservatives and liberals who
2:10:56 are enforcing xyz against muslims then
2:10:59 you you have to it would be hypocritical
2:11:01 if you didn't also want it for other
2:11:03 people and you and almost it's a false
2:11:05 dichotomy by the way because
2:11:07 what muslims want is like we don't want
2:11:09 to be like shot and killed just for
2:11:11 being muslim and no one's saying that if
2:11:13 someone um has has uh
2:11:17 has certain feelings for the same sex
2:11:19 would have you that they should be shot
2:11:20 and killed in the street no one's saying
2:11:22 that so simply muslims we don't want to
2:11:24 be arrested arbitrarily we don't want to
2:11:25 be interfered with in our in our
2:11:28 religious life
2:11:30 and that's it it doesn't mean now that
2:11:32 you now have to create a new subcategory
2:11:34 of rights called transgender rights or
2:11:37 um lgbtq rights um we will be happy to
2:11:40 just simply say look
2:11:42 you have rights for all all the human
2:11:44 citizens of the state
2:11:46 uh may be consistent with those rights
2:11:48 with all human citizens they can't be
2:11:50 arbitrarily arrested they can't be um
2:11:52 just killed or shot by a law enforcement
2:11:54 or by fbi coming to their house for a
2:11:56 voluntary interview which happened once
2:11:58 muslims were shot even though he he
2:12:00 accepted the earthquake to come and
2:12:02 speak to him voluntarily in his own
2:12:03 house he ended up being shot and the fbi
2:12:05 said oh he he was attacking me
2:12:07 so
2:12:08 we just want basic the basic rights
2:12:10 offered to all citizens um in in any of
2:12:13 these these states right and that's
2:12:15 that's it we don't have to
2:12:16 go out of but we shouldn't be we
2:12:18 shouldn't have to go out of our way to
2:12:20 advocate for specialist rights given to
2:12:22 um
2:12:23 whatever whatever subcategories are
2:12:26 created uh for us now to to
2:12:29 be given basic human respect and rights
2:12:31 or at least consistent treatment that's
2:12:33 basically it anyway
2:12:35 um
2:12:36 so many muslims they they fall into that
2:12:38 and they they they will go on on all
2:12:40 those platforms feeling obliged to do so
2:12:42 many eye socks or msas um have
2:12:45 contacted me and said look what do we do
2:12:47 we we've been uh
2:12:49 we've been supported by this this
2:12:50 left-wing um uh movement or group or
2:12:52 what have you but now they're demanding
2:12:54 that we have to grow on a platform
2:12:55 supporting something we don't actually
2:12:57 agree with
2:12:58 yeah what about the abortion debate as
2:13:00 well now
2:13:01 many muslim you know many muslim
2:13:04 women i've seen in the united states of
2:13:05 america um are arguing that uh that
2:13:08 abortion should be legalized for cases
2:13:11 which don't concern you know medical
2:13:14 problems so if the person's totally
2:13:16 healthy and fine and in cases not
2:13:18 involving rape but but at the discretion
2:13:21 and desire of the of the woman even up
2:13:23 to the third trimester
2:13:25 what
2:13:26 yes even up to the third trimester
2:13:31 they argue purely on the basis that of
2:13:34 the individualistic idea of um every
2:13:36 person is the ultimate owner of their
2:13:37 body even though we didn't create
2:13:39 ourselves well the interesting thing is
2:13:41 well one part of an aspect of the
2:13:44 oneness of the divine is the oneness of
2:13:46 his creative power which is the fact
2:13:48 that he owns everything you don't own
2:13:50 yourself right
2:13:52 this is the problem with being
2:13:54 using a brother's terminology
2:13:56 ideologically infected this is an
2:13:59 ideologically molested
2:14:02 human being but it's true let's just be
2:14:04 very honest because remember everything
2:14:06 links back bro to allah as you said god
2:14:09 centric right
2:14:10 who is allah who are we in relation to
2:14:12 allah how we must relate to him what
2:14:15 does allah tell us in the quran and the
2:14:16 sunnah in order to on
2:14:18 on how to understand ourselves in the
2:14:19 world
2:14:20 that perspective of that whoever sister
2:14:23 who said it's fine to do that based on
2:14:25 an individualistic perspective of we
2:14:27 think we have
2:14:29 full ownership of who of of ourselves
2:14:31 this is someone who categorically
2:14:34 does not understand some elements of the
2:14:36 oneness of allah and who they are as a
2:14:38 human being and and and and basic
2:14:42 scriptural
2:14:43 uh divine guidance of how we should live
2:14:46 our lives and how we understand
2:14:47 ourselves and so this is why it's so
2:14:49 important to keep on talking about these
2:14:52 topics bro
2:14:54 to kind of to answer that your the your
2:14:56 question in perhaps
2:14:58 with more bravery
2:15:00 is
2:15:00 um
2:15:01 that
2:15:02 muslims need to actually learn about how
2:15:04 islam solves
2:15:06 problems of mankind itself economic
2:15:08 problems the with a detailed solution
2:15:10 not just with no river no no interest
2:15:13 but actually it's a bit more than that
2:15:15 it's more elaborate elaborate on that i
2:15:16 did i did lectures on i think you can
2:15:18 see them online about economic system uh
2:15:20 how islam solves the problems uh you've
2:15:22 done lectures on uh how islam solves
2:15:24 social problems uh
2:15:26 uh issues of in the family or how it
2:15:28 organized it and many more besides that
2:15:30 as well and many dua have done so uh and
2:15:32 we need we we need to obviously redouble
2:15:34 our efforts to get it out there but
2:15:36 basically because muslims lack that
2:15:38 knowledge um they're not confident about
2:15:40 articulating islam we're meant to be um
2:15:43 witnesses to mankind you know al-annas
2:15:46 right to all mankind
2:15:47 for
2:15:48 the dean of islam for that for the truth
2:15:50 in the west when they have a problem
2:15:52 when they have a problem with racism for
2:15:53 example uh we should necessarily be
2:15:56 going to crt or going to or some wilsons
2:15:58 or even are actually even follow
2:15:59 liberalism and and and deny racism so
2:16:02 liberalism is a perfect system there's
2:16:03 no there's conservative muslims in the
2:16:05 republican party which is ridiculous um
2:16:08 so instead of all that we say look
2:16:10 the pro you will never get rid of racism
2:16:13 as long as you have the idea of a nation
2:16:15 state a state that represents a
2:16:16 particular nation
2:16:18 because that nation or nation meaning
2:16:20 ethnic or linguistic group because that
2:16:22 nation will always be given privilege
2:16:24 and if you have more immigration
2:16:26 there'll always be that the majority
2:16:27 group of the group that the nation
2:16:29 represents their interest because the
2:16:30 the state is meant to represent the
2:16:32 interest of the group with the democracy
2:16:34 the majority they will always be they
2:16:35 will always hate immigration they'll
2:16:37 always be worried about um minorities
2:16:39 they'll say these these will change our
2:16:41 culture uh as if every individual born
2:16:43 in the majority group has some kind of
2:16:45 birth right to determine the culture of
2:16:47 the society more than anybody else does
2:16:50 uh whereas in islam we say you know what
2:16:52 we solve it we don't make it about
2:16:54 humans we make it about allah it becomes
2:16:57 completely irrelevant who the majority
2:16:59 who the majority of the minority is
2:17:01 because the creator of of the tribe of
2:17:03 adam alaihissalam which is our group
2:17:06 and the ummah um we're all the same in
2:17:08 the eyes of our last front allah except
2:17:10 those who are pious and have
2:17:14 and those who um are sinners and
2:17:16 transgressors you can choose your social
2:17:19 status so to speak in the eyes of a lost
2:17:21 island you can choose your state
2:17:24 um
2:17:25 without needing wealth without needing
2:17:27 things given to you um
2:17:29 you can choose it everyone can choose
2:17:31 it's you're truly free to be
2:17:33 uh the the worshiper you want to be
2:17:36 all right
2:17:37 the one who acknowledges the truth of
2:17:39 reality you can be you can do you can do
2:17:41 your extra sunnah you can do extra
2:17:43 charity you can help your neighbor more
2:17:45 than you have to if you want you or or
2:17:47 just do the minimum you can
2:17:49 yeah i think they would argue here
2:17:50 though that you have to therefore adopt
2:17:52 a particular philosophical world view in
2:17:55 order for that even to make sense but i
2:17:56 think i could just preempt your answer
2:17:58 is well you have to adopt the secular
2:18:01 world view in order for that to work as
2:18:03 well at the same time so you have to
2:18:05 adopt ideas you have to adopt a
2:18:06 worldview and that's why ideas are so
2:18:08 significant and that's why it's
2:18:09 extremely important
2:18:11 to continue unpacking things like
2:18:13 neo-marxism post-modernism crt
2:18:16 and to get muslims to realize that ideas
2:18:18 are so significant not only from a
2:18:20 perspective of solution
2:18:22 but perspective of your whole life and
2:18:24 also the perspective of our discussion
2:18:26 today because if people start adopting
2:18:28 uh neo-marxism and post-modernism in the
2:18:31 way that you've described it
2:18:32 and this and and and to do it and to
2:18:35 adopt it in an instrumental way because
2:18:37 they believe it might be a kind of means
2:18:40 to particular ends that we as minorities
2:18:42 become a little bit more emancipated
2:18:45 it's very shallow thinking because all
2:18:47 the hierarchy is going to be destroyed
2:18:48 including islam the islamic
2:18:55 uh islam is colonial because look how
2:18:57 the the the caliphate and the abu bakr
2:18:59 al maladan spread or how even the
2:19:00 prophet muhammed uh sausage spread the
2:19:02 authority of medina to the arabian
2:19:04 peninsula to other tribes
2:19:06 so this is this not colonialism is this
2:19:09 does this mean that um if you're going
2:19:10 to condemn colonialism as simply um
2:19:13 a political expansion and that's wrong
2:19:15 because one people can't
2:19:18 can't be enforced on other people's
2:19:20 quote unquote um then islam would be
2:19:22 wrong even though technically that's not
2:19:23 what islam did anyway it's not never
2:19:25 forced people to change their political
2:19:26 system or how they uh so how uh how each
2:19:29 community lived its laws and so on which
2:19:31 liberalism did do but we there was
2:19:33 political expansion um or they'll say
2:19:36 what about islamic uh slavery
2:19:38 quote-unquote if you're gonna condemn
2:19:40 western slavery they'll say then uh why
2:19:42 did the prophet muhammad
2:19:43 saw
2:19:45 didn't um
2:19:47 abolish it himself i said well actually
2:19:49 you know what um
2:19:51 islam you know limited slavery to
2:19:52 certain aspects you know prisons of war
2:19:54 and so on and so forth but it the
2:19:56 treatment of slaves or servants
2:20:00 is vastly different such that it's not
2:20:03 um the very concept of um
2:20:05 of of uh of having of servitude of
2:20:08 people who are prisons of war because
2:20:09 the union of convention allows you to
2:20:10 make um prison of war do work by the way
2:20:12 everyone forgets that the third geneva
2:20:14 convention um so it's not that is that
2:20:16 the western idea of slavery how it was
2:20:18 practiced that was bad that's what we
2:20:20 condemn what they did how they did it
2:20:22 the the the lack of rights of the slave
2:20:24 and how they even got them in the first
2:20:25 place that was what um yeah i mean i
2:20:28 wouldn't even use the word slavery
2:20:29 anyway because it has the wrong kind of
2:20:30 connotations it's different yeah it's a
2:20:32 different paradigm it's a different
2:20:33 paradigm that needs to be unpacked made
2:20:35 for another podcast but
2:20:37 yes
2:20:38 the course um uh the course called the
2:20:40 race and gender course uh and on the
2:20:42 left-wing ideologies um and it's going
2:20:45 to be a much more detailed unpacking of
2:20:47 all these things there's so much more i
2:20:48 i could have said and i'm i glossed over
2:20:51 so much uh i didn't talk about
2:20:53 structuralism and post-structuralism um
2:20:55 as much even though that's actually very
2:20:56 important to what what made neo-marxists
2:20:59 become post-marxist but there's a we can
2:21:01 discuss in another podcast of coming
2:21:03 more happy absolutely absolutely but
2:21:05 that's what the course is designed for
2:21:06 is to equip all due art uh and
2:21:09 anyone even just muslims who are
2:21:10 interested adults who are scholars or
2:21:13 or those who are imams to understand
2:21:15 what what the west its history is
2:21:18 intellectual history of this is is its
2:21:20 history of how it deals with dealt with
2:21:22 race it's the race of its past um the
2:21:25 emergence of fascism and nationalism and
2:21:27 all these intel all these how these
2:21:28 facts come to play as well as critical
2:21:30 race theory critical gender studies um
2:21:32 the various waves of feminism all this
2:21:34 is going is unpacked into great detail
2:21:36 the islamic perspective is
2:21:38 is supplied in in much more detail um so
2:21:41 for sure i mean yeah the role of these
2:21:44 podcasters is to give platform to these
2:21:45 ideas so people could continue if
2:21:47 anything
2:21:48 if they've got anything from this
2:21:50 podcast is that they should understand
2:21:51 that there is
2:21:52 something problematic
2:21:54 from a conceptual and philosophical
2:21:56 point of view concerning post-modernism
2:21:59 and neo-marxism and that if you follow
2:22:03 the kind of
2:22:05 logical implication of adopting the
2:22:08 destruction of cultural hegemony and
2:22:11 hierarchy then that's going to end up
2:22:13 destroying islam so you shouldn't use it
2:22:15 just as an instrument to a particular
2:22:17 short-term goal you need to look a bit a
2:22:19 little bit further and you also need to
2:22:20 understand that you shouldn't fall
2:22:23 for the false epistemic biases and
2:22:25 metaphysical falsities of other
2:22:27 philosophies approaches or worldviews
2:22:30 and you should come to the islamic
2:22:32 tradition
2:22:33 and you know seek scholarly guidance to
2:22:36 apply it in our contemporary
2:22:40 times in a way that could provide
2:22:42 solutions from the islamic basis
2:22:44 because number one it will be consistent
2:22:47 number two it will be
2:22:50 only goodness for you as an individual
2:22:52 for the muslim community and for
2:22:54 humanity itself
2:22:55 because
2:22:56 allah subhanahu wa ta'ala sent this
2:22:58 quran to take us out of the darkness yes
2:23:01 into the into the light into the light
2:23:04 of allah's guidance so it's very
2:23:06 important brothers and sisters that you
2:23:08 know we take some of these ideas you
2:23:10 attend um ustad abdullah's course the
2:23:13 quran institute forward slash
2:23:16 fem crt go to his website go to his
2:23:19 other courses and start developing the
2:23:21 kind of islamic world view because islam
2:23:24 is not a religion from a kind of secular
2:23:26 perspective it's a world view
2:23:28 it's based on the truth and from this
2:23:30 truth and emanates laws values morals
2:23:35 ethics that are only going to be
2:23:38 the best thing for not only us
2:23:39 individually but for the whole of
2:23:40 humanity so it's very important
2:23:44 and just lastly um in case people say
2:23:46 okay we should be witnesses to mankind
2:23:48 but what about um you know day-to-day
2:23:50 issues where muslims mistreated by the
2:23:52 police or what have you um again
2:23:54 the principles of justice that muslims
2:23:56 believe in um when dealing with
2:23:58 non-muslims because the quran says do
2:23:59 not dispute the people the book unless
2:24:01 you witness them committing injustice we
2:24:03 don't mean by that in that verse that
2:24:06 they're not following the quran because
2:24:07 we're obviously they're not going to
2:24:08 follow the quran their people of the
2:24:09 book the christians and jews
2:24:12 in this case it means that when they're
2:24:14 being inconsistent with their own
2:24:15 principles so in the west if if everyone
2:24:18 is meant to be let's say
2:24:19 um if everyone has the right to an
2:24:21 attorney if anyone has a right to a
2:24:23 court to be brought into court and to
2:24:25 face their charges and if one western
2:24:27 country starts
2:24:28 arresting muslims and not give them a
2:24:29 court
2:24:30 case we can say we can't say look in the
2:24:32 name of liberalism give us our rights no
2:24:34 we simply say you believe in these
2:24:36 principles
2:24:37 why aren't you consistent
2:24:39 with the principles that you hold to so
2:24:41 that's also a way we cannot we can argue
2:24:43 um but at the same time we should also
2:24:45 say that you will ultimately never solve
2:24:48 the problems in your society effectively
2:24:50 because you lack the adherence to the
2:24:53 revelation the only way to solve it is
2:24:55 by fulfilling the the purpose of all
2:24:57 human beings as prescribed by the
2:24:58 creator who gives us the only guidance
2:25:00 to solve human nature nature that we do
2:25:02 have by the way for those
2:25:04 existentialists
2:25:06 that's it good job here bro man i bless
2:25:09 you this exactly for spending nearly
2:25:12 over
2:25:12 well nearly two and a half hours with me
2:25:14 it's been a huge pleasure and an honor
2:25:16 for you to be here and you have so much
2:25:18 to offer the community and we're always
2:25:20 supportive supportive of your work
2:25:23 and we share your stuff alhamdulillah
2:25:25 and we've mentioned you many times on
2:25:27 our lives as well i believe so keep on
2:25:29 doing the great work anything that we
2:25:31 can as a collective a sacred support you
2:25:33 let me know anything that i can do
2:25:35 individually to support you let me know
2:25:41 i'm hopefully trying to
2:25:42 self-define myself as the person that if
2:25:44 you do reach out and you need anything
2:25:46 i'll be at your service
2:25:48 let's let me let's hope that we can
2:25:50 continue that and that's a leadership
2:25:52 style that we need in the daoa community
2:25:54 now if the art and organizations come to
2:25:56 each other and they're like-minded that
2:25:58 they need help we should not even think
2:26:00 twice and be at their service
2:26:03 um so yeah bro i'm at your service
2:26:04 anything you need let me know yep i can
2:26:06 come at 2am to your house to ask for a
2:26:08 cup of sugar
2:26:09 yeah absolutely
2:26:12 we definitely we definitely need you
2:26:14 back we definitely need you back because
2:26:15 there's so much more to unpack maybe
2:26:17 just take one idea and unpack the whole
2:26:18 thing but i think this was a good
2:26:20 introduction it's gonna get people
2:26:22 thinking which is which is needed and
2:26:24 you may get some positive comments on
2:26:26 your twitter and you may get some pro
2:26:28 crt pro marxist post posts
2:26:32 comments from those yeah
2:26:34 but i know you deal with them really
2:26:35 well and it's and it's uh sometimes it's
2:26:38 it's a joy just watching it but yes but
2:26:40 i'll leave you with the last word give
2:26:41 the audience the last few sentences
2:26:43 and then we'll close inshallah
2:26:46 what's up
2:26:48 for inviting me and uh for your patience
2:26:50 uh your your greek stoic uh patience and
2:26:53 uh
2:26:54 uh hearing me go on and on about a very
2:26:56 a very big subject but um i just like to
2:26:58 say that as i said the office also
2:27:01 reciprocated uh for you any other
2:27:03 brothers at sapiens institute and and
2:27:05 and beyond um
2:27:07 we are as muslims we're here for each
2:27:08 other we're one umma uh we're like you
2:27:10 know teeth in the comb we support each
2:27:13 other we're like bricks that's uh you
2:27:15 know linked together supporting up the
2:27:16 roof and as i said um you know we it's a
2:27:20 learning experience from you know we're
2:27:22 always learning new things and i'm still
2:27:24 learning new things and
2:27:25 um you know any of the
2:27:27 anything which i've said has been true
2:27:28 and accurate it's been on from allah and
2:27:31 the mistakes have been completely
2:27:33 uh mine and abundantly in mind so
2:27:36 barakallahu can brother once again and
2:27:38 shall i look forward to
2:27:39 doing this against a different topic
2:27:46 [Music]