Sharing Islam, truth & doubts (2020-06-24) #

0:00:01 the letter of megara Heymann
0:00:04 alhamdulillah so that was that my
0:00:05 daughter's fully let's sell my Dakota La
0:00:08 Habra care to brothers sisters friends
0:00:12 and welcome to this live stream with me
0:00:15 today we have chef Hisham just a quick
0:00:19 bio chef Hisham Jafar Adi is an engineer
0:00:23 by profession and a Muslim chuckling at
0:00:25 the University of Nottingham
0:00:28 he studied Arabic and Islamic Sciences
0:00:30 in the UAE for a number of years where
0:00:33 he received a highly diploma in Arabic
0:00:35 and Islamic Sciences and was appointed a
0:00:38 thieve at the age of 17 and how many
0:00:42 really left so it's very good to have
0:00:44 you here chef HM how are you I'm doing
0:00:48 I'm not sure that's lovely to be here
0:00:53 it's a pleasure it's all of you to be
0:00:55 here now we're going to be talking about
0:00:58 sharing Islam we're going to be talking
0:01:00 about doubts we're talking about how to
0:01:03 deal with doubts and all the relevant
0:01:06 topics that revolve around those themes
0:01:08 so the first thing that I want to talk
0:01:10 about is please give us some of your
0:01:14 experiences on campus because I know
0:01:16 you've dealt with many students at the
0:01:19 University of Nottingham concerning Iman
0:01:22 faith related issues concerning doubts
0:01:25 concerning certainty just give us your
0:01:28 over experience and maybe a particular
0:01:30 experience that opened the door in order
0:01:34 for you to get involved in these issues
0:01:36 and take them more seriously I believe
0:01:38 there was someone who committed suicide
0:01:40 but he leave that to you to to to tell
0:01:43 the audience yeah so the the overview
0:01:47 comes it's a good question to start off
0:01:48 with the overview is so as chaplain at
0:01:51 the University not in large part of my
0:01:53 responsibility is talking to students
0:01:55 and we wouldn't call it counseling we'll
0:01:58 be able to just have a chat with them
0:01:59 whether it's something emotional they're
0:02:01 struggling with something faithful A to
0:02:02 B the struggle and usually the chaplain
0:02:04 is not really equipped for higher
0:02:06 education in the chaplains usually are
0:02:08 in prisons and hospitals with a winter
0:02:10 spa you know
0:02:12 with bereavement emotional trauma things
0:02:14 like that but in a higher education
0:02:16 environment the challenge is not about
0:02:18 leading spinel and it's not really about
0:02:20 emotional trauma the real challenge is
0:02:22 the intellectual challenge is the
0:02:24 challenge of doubt and having been a
0:02:27 chaplain now for over a year and also
0:02:30 having traveled to other spamming
0:02:31 societies and other campuses in the UK
0:02:33 I've noticed that it's a rampant problem
0:02:35 is rife but it's also suppressed it's
0:02:38 under the cupboard and so the overview
0:02:40 of the problem is that when I started
0:02:42 chaplaincy I was quite shocked to
0:02:44 realize that the people who are coming
0:02:45 to me to deal with doubts in the basic
0:02:47 tenets of Islam were people on people
0:02:51 who were bearded systems were wearing
0:02:53 the hijab visibly practicing Muslims but
0:02:56 there is an invisible burden on their
0:02:59 shoulders and something that's consuming
0:03:01 their minds you know some people think
0:03:03 this is only true for students who are
0:03:05 studying philosophy and everybody else
0:03:07 is in noon actually it's not it's the
0:03:09 climate that you live they can't go a
0:03:11 day without in some way shape or form
0:03:14 being exposed to other ideologies other
0:03:17 belief systems and obviously the
0:03:19 question then comes back is what am i a
0:03:21 Muslim because of birth by my muslim by
0:03:24 culture by choice and when they start
0:03:27 questioning all of their initial
0:03:28 assumptions they realize I actually
0:03:29 don't know I don't know why I'm a Muslim
0:03:32 and that's when the the kind of the
0:03:36 problem begins that's when the the shock
0:03:38 begins - some of them I've had students
0:03:40 that leave the course drop out of
0:03:41 university starting with the
0:03:43 intellectual doubts I've had students
0:03:45 who stopped wearing the hijab just
0:03:48 starting with the doubt and so it starts
0:03:50 with one doubt one thought one idea it
0:03:52 festers it becomes a constant spread
0:03:54 consumes them sometimes they choose a
0:03:56 lot less - it's just a question someone
0:03:58 has the neither answer that wants to do
0:03:59 them the answer all the times people ask
0:04:02 you the question you give them a
0:04:03 non-standard a for another quick and
0:04:04 another and another and now these
0:04:06 questions are eating their mind Jin's
0:04:07 father they can't focus you know they're
0:04:10 crying they one particular practicing
0:04:13 student
0:04:13 equally would study for his exams in the
0:04:15 library because it's like someone was
0:04:16 talking to him in his head about - ready
0:04:19 to Islam so one thing for sure coming
0:04:22 after that is it's wrong to say these
0:04:24 are just intellectual problems
0:04:25 there's a psychological aspect this is
0:04:27 beautiful aspect there is the emotional
0:04:29 aspect there so like one pattern I
0:04:31 noticed the students who had like
0:04:32 emotional trauma growing up they tend to
0:04:34 be more susceptible to these kinds of
0:04:36 doubts they tend to feel a bit more lost
0:04:38 when they become stuck in the front and
0:04:40 one particular incident the one you
0:04:42 referred to possibly one of the most
0:04:43 shocking ones is a student who a Muslim
0:04:47 student committed suicide and family
0:04:50 give me permission to tell story buddies
0:04:52 most continue committing suicide and I
0:04:54 know that the what started all off was a
0:04:56 doubt the feeling that our practicing
0:05:00 Muslim brings pearlized at cetera
0:05:02 I don't know why I'm doing it some non
0:05:05 Muslim colleague asked him a question
0:05:06 about my faith he doesn't know the
0:05:07 answer to it and that's how it all
0:05:08 begins the problem is not knowing what
0:05:10 to do with the doubt Satan starting with
0:05:13 a doubt it becomes a cancer and when you
0:05:16 live your entire life seeing the world
0:05:17 in a particular way suddenly that
0:05:19 worldview shatters you're in a vector in
0:05:22 a vacuum
0:05:23 you've got nothing and you've got
0:05:25 nothing to lose and I happens to come
0:05:27 from like a difficult home and abusive
0:05:30 family etcetera cetera
0:05:31 no way to go back home to and no peace
0:05:33 and peace of mind where he is he decided
0:05:37 to take his life would you say nice yeah
0:05:41 would you say from your experience on
0:05:43 campus and dealing with students on a
0:05:46 kind of grassroots can't effective what
0:05:49 would be the kind of I mean percentage
0:05:52 is a wrong term to use but the kind of I
0:05:55 don't know let's use the word percentage
0:05:57 of Muslim students that would have what
0:06:00 you call a doubt concerning the Islamic
0:06:03 tradition I would say conservative
0:06:07 estimate would be one-third estimate
0:06:10 would be one-third of Muslims have
0:06:12 doubts about their faith that they don't
0:06:14 have the confidence to ask they don't
0:06:15 all they don't know who to go to and
0:06:17 they kind of just push it aside thinking
0:06:20 I'll eventually deal with it or I'll get
0:06:22 there okay but it's affected them
0:06:24 already yeah so this leads us to a
0:06:26 really interesting point now so let's
0:06:28 really define what we mean by doubt here
0:06:31 because in the Islamic tradition there
0:06:33 is a difference between kind of
0:06:35 psycho-spiritual whisperings
0:06:38 and genuine intellectual doubts so I'm
0:06:42 assuming you've used the word out to
0:06:44 compass both but let's now allow you to
0:06:47 elaborate on the difference between the
0:06:49 two sure
0:06:52 the and we've seen this quite often
0:06:54 where a doubt turns into
0:06:56 psycho-spiritual but that to just make a
0:06:58 distinction between you know a doubt is
0:07:01 something you're not sure of and the
0:07:03 dangerous ones out when you're not sure
0:07:05 about something very fundamental to its
0:07:07 level you're not sure of whether God
0:07:09 exists or not sure is Muhammad the
0:07:11 Prophet or not I doubt is different from
0:07:14 a question a question is why did
0:07:17 so-and-so happen in the stomach
0:07:18 tradition in Islamic history but I still
0:07:20 retain my beliefs my Evoque morals and
0:07:22 values having King but when you're not
0:07:25 sure anymore about those initial things
0:07:27 that's when it becomes doubt on the
0:07:31 other hand psycho-spiritual whispering
0:07:32 is what we call West Western America is
0:07:34 when it's not just something you just
0:07:37 not sure of i but you're able to go on
0:07:39 with your daily life it's when that
0:07:41 question that you had of the thing
0:07:43 you're not sure about eventually takes
0:07:45 over your mind
0:07:45 so to speak you know you hear almost a
0:07:48 whispering in your head you're knocking
0:07:49 one you find the answer to one down only
0:07:52 to get another one popping up and it's
0:07:54 constantly bothering you it's it's
0:07:56 consuming and that you know you I find
0:08:00 that it starts with a doubt and I doubt
0:08:01 not dealt with then becomes a cancerous
0:08:05 okay so the distinction is being made
0:08:08 here is there are those doubts about
0:08:10 something that you aren't you're unsure
0:08:11 that you have a question about and it
0:08:15 refers generally speaking to the kind of
0:08:17 foundational aspects of Islam that would
0:08:18 change the basis of your value system
0:08:20 the basis very would you know that
0:08:22 serious doubts
0:08:23 yeah in that study different from having
0:08:25 a question about something like you know
0:08:27 I want to know about the preservation of
0:08:30 hadith okay not really knowing the
0:08:32 answer this moment doesn't really affect
0:08:34 my foundational worldview it doesn't
0:08:36 affect that my value system
0:08:38 I still have gained I still have
0:08:40 certainty in Islam it's just a question
0:08:42 I'm going to explore intellectually it's
0:08:44 virtually and I'm gonna access the
0:08:46 tradition to find an answer which is
0:08:48 very different to I doubt the
0:08:50 foundational
0:08:51 aspects of the tradition like God's
0:08:52 existence the miracle of the Quran and
0:08:54 the propagator of the public saw a lot
0:08:56 more I need to ascend them and other
0:08:57 aspects including the six pillars of
0:09:00 Eman right and then you said the
0:09:02 psycho-spiritual dow is the worst was
0:09:04 over that overcomes you
0:09:06 it basically engulfs you and you don't
0:09:10 have an answer and that really basically
0:09:13 fundamentally destroyed your kind of
0:09:15 spiritual and your psychological being
0:09:17 and it's not just intellectual that's
0:09:19 one modesty yes that the US was that
0:09:21 it's something that you could have
0:09:22 answered that question before I know the
0:09:23 answer this question mmm but it keeps
0:09:25 bugging least psychologically yes yeah
0:09:30 can you also say there is there is light
0:09:32 at the end of the tunnel even when it
0:09:34 comes to things like what was because
0:09:37 the Sahaba they would complain to the
0:09:41 promise of a lot more ie who would send
0:09:42 them to say you know they had things
0:09:45 that come in their mind that they didn't
0:09:47 want to answer right and the Prophet SAW
0:09:50 a love more ie who had said them
0:09:51 basically said to them this is a sign of
0:09:53 Eman so there is another type of wash
0:09:56 bursa which is well maybe you shouldn't
0:09:59 call it what what stuff because it is
0:10:01 not saying that's you know we it's not
0:10:04 just an understudy necessarily something
0:10:06 sinister right like some thoughts you
0:10:08 have you just would never share with
0:10:09 anyone Chris oh yeah it's like kind of a
0:10:12 mental whispering and mental
0:10:14 psychological whispering this so honover
0:10:16 they had them too however they had a
0:10:20 distinction they made a distinction
0:10:22 between the mental spiritual whispering
0:10:25 and who they were they said we don't
0:10:27 like this we don't believe in this we
0:10:29 know it's wrong but it's coming our
0:10:31 minds we're not gonna say anything when
0:10:33 of enactment and that's why the process
0:10:36 from said this is a sign of Iman now
0:10:38 when it comes to unhealthy
0:10:41 mental spiritual whisperings it's when
0:10:43 you start to adopt those mental
0:10:47 spiritual whisperings and engulf human
0:10:50 destroys you from that destroys your
0:10:52 well-being and I like to give a picture
0:10:54 sometimes that it's like your mind is
0:10:57 like a sky and there are clouds now the
0:11:02 clouds
0:11:04 they're not you right they're not part
0:11:06 of your mind per se just let them drift
0:11:08 parts of the heart that you look at that
0:11:10 cloud is not meant whisper to a spring
0:11:12 which I know is fundamentally wrong I
0:11:14 know it's not from me and I have a
0:11:18 psychological III don't like it right so
0:11:23 IIIi don't like that whispering i I it's
0:11:26 not part of me I know how to answer if I
0:11:29 still in my head and I'm not gonna talk
0:11:32 about it because I know is I'm making
0:11:34 the distinction you have this kind of
0:11:35 what's that word you use
0:11:37 you got a binary its external right but
0:11:41 they also hate it because they know it's
0:11:42 false they know it's not over them from
0:11:45 this it's a kind of mental spiritual
0:11:47 whispering and they just let it go pause
0:11:50 so let the cloud just drift away when it
0:11:53 comes to kind of the whispering that you
0:11:54 were talking about is when you now think
0:11:56 that cloud is you and it starts to rain
0:11:59 yeah yeah frequently what happens is
0:12:02 that when you once you start
0:12:03 internalizing it and saying these are my
0:12:05 thoughts and the next question is how
0:12:08 could I be thinking Steketee yes you
0:12:10 begin to doubt you're very like
0:12:12 existence your nature your morality like
0:12:14 am i a good person how could I be
0:12:15 thinking this about you know how could I
0:12:17 not be sure about the Prophet peace upon
0:12:20 his integrity yeah be as a Muslim so
0:12:23 when you start hating yourself
0:12:25 is when it all is that's one the black
0:12:27 hole turns up anything gets tucked in
0:12:29 because when it could turn becomes
0:12:30 self-loathing it becomes a vicious cycle
0:12:33 you hate yourself for the spot you don't
0:12:35 know how to solve it you get another
0:12:36 thought you hate the thought you hate
0:12:38 yourself and you become in this fire of
0:12:40 this downward spiral of just
0:12:41 self-loathing self-loathing and not
0:12:43 really hard to get out that's very
0:12:46 interesting and it's actually quite sad
0:12:49 as well because you can imagine that
0:12:50 person is just in this you know this
0:12:53 quagmire is darkness and they don't have
0:12:56 to get out of it so before we go into
0:12:59 the solutions then what are the sources
0:13:01 of these type of doubts what do you
0:13:03 think of the sources of the spiritual
0:13:04 type of doubts the what sorcerer what do
0:13:06 you think are the sources of the kind of
0:13:08 intellectual doubts the fundamental type
0:13:11 of doubts from your experience what
0:13:13 would they be so partly like one thing I
0:13:17 had to come
0:13:17 except is that we live in the global
0:13:19 village where if you're if your heart or
0:13:21 your mind is a bucket it's raining it's
0:13:24 raining and you've filled your bucket
0:13:26 with some basic morals and values but
0:13:28 everyone's throwing their bit as well so
0:13:31 you you can't really avoid being exposed
0:13:34 even possibly being exposed to people
0:13:36 attacking your
0:13:37 your metal beliefs and one of the things
0:13:41 one of the unfortunate realities is that
0:13:43 we're not prepared for that fraught in
0:13:45 terms of upbringing inch powdered so one
0:13:47 of the things you mentioned before in
0:13:48 previous conversation is why don't
0:13:50 parents talk to their children about why
0:13:52 we worship Allah and if if a parent were
0:13:55 to arm their child with such a mentality
0:13:57 or mindset
0:13:58 women when it starts raining they have
0:14:00 an umbrella so to speak to go with the
0:14:03 analogy so one of the one of the sources
0:14:04 is climate we have a climate or
0:14:07 especially in Europe coming straight
0:14:09 after the Renaissance and the European
0:14:11 Revolution and etc etc a source we have
0:14:14 the climate of doubt of being aesthetic
0:14:17 being sceptical anything established
0:14:18 being skeptic and religion religion is
0:14:19 old school
0:14:20 the institution of religion it's you
0:14:22 know it's not in line with science or
0:14:25 instead line with modernity so when you
0:14:26 grow up in this environment you can't
0:14:28 help but having some of those thoughts
0:14:30 fest in the back of your mind that's one
0:14:32 source the climate the environment and
0:14:34 then another source is you know people
0:14:39 getting involved in conversations
0:14:40 interfaith conversations that they're
0:14:43 not ready to have so you know people
0:14:45 going on at our store and they're armed
0:14:47 with the kind of basic questions but
0:14:49 they're not on certain types of
0:14:51 discussion and so someone brings up
0:14:53 something they haven't come across
0:14:54 before and that begins sometimes the
0:14:57 involvement extra problem in that way
0:14:59 when a person is ready and with students
0:15:01 in particular one of the greatest
0:15:03 sources of doubt is YouTube I would say
0:15:05 from my anecdotal experience no survey
0:15:08 but I would say 80 to 90 percent of
0:15:10 doubts you come across people aren't
0:15:12 really reading books nowadays especially
0:15:13 at that age group they're all on
0:15:15 Instagram snapchat YouTube it's the
0:15:17 YouTube suggestion playlist that is the
0:15:20 greatest ghost of that really in my
0:15:23 humble opinion in my little experience
0:15:26 it's obviously conversations with
0:15:29 colleagues and friends come in contact
0:15:30 with know
0:15:31 things maybe the drop in a sheltered
0:15:32 environment non-muslim ask them a
0:15:34 question about their faith they don't
0:15:35 know how to respond and that's where it
0:15:36 begins but the majority of the time
0:15:38 going to YouTube and kind of getting
0:15:42 bits and backs about the faith and not
0:15:44 having a structured worldview and I'm
0:15:46 not having anybody build their blocks
0:15:48 but getting random bits information
0:15:50 sometimes which confuses them further
0:15:51 you know so they learn a bit about you
0:15:54 know Islam's relationship with slavery
0:15:55 and they like that just raises more
0:15:58 questions in my mind now it's not really
0:15:59 settled mmm
0:16:02 so I've stayed - in summary it's the
0:16:04 climate living the upbringing of parents
0:16:06 the lack of a foundation it's YouTube
0:16:09 and content and it's also just being in
0:16:11 contact with the wider world with
0:16:12 colleagues and so that would be
0:16:15 basically the source of maybe
0:16:17 intellectual type of dollars without
0:16:19 about the tradition itself so it's the
0:16:22 social media aspect YouTube is the
0:16:24 environment kind of Global Village we
0:16:26 live in we live in a kind of you know
0:16:29 marketplace of competing ideologies and
0:16:31 values and ideas and it's inevitable
0:16:33 that we're going to have these questions
0:16:34 okay so that's one source what about the
0:16:38 source of the type of the wasp Oh sir
0:16:40 thank you you did too early about
0:16:43 relationship with parents and maybe not
0:16:45 having a good grounding at home maybe
0:16:48 they don't have a good connection with a
0:16:51 loss hannah water I know they don't pray
0:16:53 for example so give us some of those
0:16:54 typos yeah that's and I would say that
0:16:58 the West Coast aspect is perhaps the
0:17:00 most really dangerous in how impacts a
0:17:03 person's entire life I've seen two broad
0:17:06 sources of in my conversation like
0:17:09 somebody comes they have like serious
0:17:12 doubt they don't you know why they exist
0:17:13 you know existential pain they don't no
0:17:15 one here does a lot I don't know anymore
0:17:17 anything anymore when I as I have that
0:17:19 conversation as I dig deeper and deeper
0:17:21 why they have those doubts what are
0:17:22 those questions it eventually gets to
0:17:25 one of two things either one they've
0:17:28 been through some really bad form a
0:17:30 growing up they have a compliment
0:17:32 abusive Hospital they're going through
0:17:34 some emotional comment that one a parent
0:17:36 is blackmailing them parents to
0:17:38 physically abuse them then contract
0:17:40 abused in their childhood it's a tractor
0:17:41 that's one stops they don't have a
0:17:44 stable
0:17:44 sense of self they don't have a stable
0:17:47 you kind of feeling of who am i what am
0:17:49 i worth etcetera etcetera and the other
0:17:53 source is weak spirituality and so a lot
0:17:57 of these doubts are on things that
0:17:59 they've been they've had a firm belief
0:18:00 in the entire life beyond rational
0:18:02 ground blindly not blindly on rational
0:18:05 growth but it's at that time when they
0:18:07 stopped praying for gel for three weeks
0:18:09 in a row they stopped coming to JAMA a
0:18:11 couple of weeks maybe they go to the pub
0:18:13 with a couple of friends and there's not
0:18:14 really mind people drinking around them
0:18:16 and they just they feel a bit
0:18:17 comfortable like you know what's wrong
0:18:19 really with people drinking and that's
0:18:20 what it begins is it's the the deeper
0:18:24 connection with Allah with God himself
0:18:26 when that begins to wane and weaken we
0:18:30 have to realize that your teen or the
0:18:31 certainty asked holding something to be
0:18:34 true is not purely intellectual reality
0:18:36 it's not something that we just read
0:18:37 stable magnet that makes sense
0:18:39 it's also it's also a spirituality that
0:18:42 comes in and we know like we discussed
0:18:44 this about the prophets campaign of what
0:18:46 custody Compu pleased with when when
0:18:49 some companions were describing it so
0:18:50 why was he so special
0:18:52 all depicted companion so why was he
0:18:53 given that place he was given this it
0:18:55 wasn't except because we say in what
0:18:57 colorful holiday to translate the Arabic
0:18:59 because there was something certain that
0:19:01 settled into his heart there was a
0:19:03 spiritual conviction that gave them the
0:19:06 strength to be able to face anything in
0:19:08 the path of God and so when that's
0:19:10 bridge to a conviction I'll give you an
0:19:11 example like if you were to ask you know
0:19:15 if you go to a desert Arabia you asked a
0:19:16 Bedouin Arab
0:19:17 why do you believe in a God he won't be
0:19:19 able to give you the Kalam cosmological
0:19:20 argument but he's like this is the most
0:19:24 certain thing in my life I've
0:19:25 experienced God I have a just feeling I
0:19:29 have a spiritual connection with him I
0:19:30 felt him in the last set of the nighter
0:19:32 I felt obviously that's not his only
0:19:34 reason but it's an additional it's a
0:19:37 component of his belief that's
0:19:38 unshakable you can't move him you know
0:19:41 and it's that very thing that makes him
0:19:43 you know if someone comes in offers him
0:19:44 a bad deal is gone you know make some
0:19:46 money by doing something unethical is
0:19:47 like no way my my sustenance come from
0:19:50 God is that unwavering unshakable faith
0:19:53 it's not purely based on rationality but
0:19:54 also based on a a spiritual experience
0:19:57 so when that I've noticed for exactly in
0:20:00 a couple of students they had the exams
0:20:02 in Ramallah okay student XA Mohammad he
0:20:06 had exams in Ramadan he thought this
0:20:07 year I'm not gonna fast I'm sure there's
0:20:09 a photo out there that lets me break my
0:20:10 fast do things up finds his futur does
0:20:13 his shopping decides I'm not gonna fast
0:20:15 asleep and that's the first you know
0:20:19 that's the first step towards almost
0:20:21 kind of breaking away from God from his
0:20:23 race
0:20:24 it's his first disobedience if his first
0:20:27 willful rebellion and his first kind of
0:20:29 feeling of I don't really care what God
0:20:31 wants and as the days go by his Hut
0:20:34 grows harder and harder reminders from
0:20:36 the Quran by these sermons I think that
0:20:38 he doesn't want to listen to prayers
0:20:40 become difficult so he's so busy
0:20:42 studying he thinks I'll just pray late
0:20:44 I'll pay later
0:20:44 just stop spraying altogether this is an
0:20:47 actual story uh you know a guy who was a
0:20:49 regular in the mosque kind of very
0:20:52 visibly practicing religious Muslim but
0:20:54 it was one one Domino after another and
0:20:57 when he stopped his religious practice
0:21:00 simultaneously he lost his religious
0:21:02 conviction people don't see the
0:21:05 relationship they think one's
0:21:06 intellectual one special no they're all
0:21:07 linked it's a web and so summarize that
0:21:10 the two sources are psychological having
0:21:15 a stable home that's the oldest course
0:21:16 on parents to keep that in check and
0:21:18 then the other being the spiritual the
0:21:20 relationship with God acts of worship
0:21:22 and words of remembrance Timonium even
0:21:24 even the Quran for example we know that
0:21:26 the Quran is a is therapeutic
0:21:28 Schieffer only nuts but how is it
0:21:31 therapeutic I've had an experience where
0:21:33 I had a student that had kind of serious
0:21:37 doubts in God does he really exist is
0:21:40 degree I don't really know anymore and
0:21:42 other than providing him with the with
0:21:44 an argument I recited verses from the
0:21:46 Quran and translated
0:21:48 reaffirming who God is his own
0:21:50 introduction to himself I introduced II
0:21:53 the first of the throne for example and
0:21:54 he started crying he broke down into
0:21:57 tears and he was sobbing like a child
0:21:59 and he said it's like I never knew I
0:22:01 never it's like I'd never knew this
0:22:02 before it's like and I know this
0:22:05 particular person he'd read a number of
0:22:07 books to try and find the truth he had
0:22:11 philosophical excursion and none of that
0:22:13 brought in conviction made him go round
0:22:15 in circles until I came and I recited to
0:22:17 him Allah hula you know he loved one are
0:22:21 you are you
0:22:24 Allah is the one god there's none worthy
0:22:27 of worship none world you've devoted but
0:22:28 he the everliving the ever subsisting
0:22:31 that's it he just broke down and that
0:22:33 that's the nature of the Quran so that
0:22:35 that's the spiritual cure for
0:22:36 intellectual problem that was quite
0:22:44 living so what we can say from that is
0:22:48 that there is a combination of
0:22:51 intellectual and spiritual components
0:22:54 and therefore we have to have a holistic
0:22:56 approach to these issues because
0:22:58 sometimes unfortunately in the social
0:23:01 media everyone is on this kind of
0:23:04 intellectual arrogance flex here's a
0:23:06 question I have to answer it
0:23:08 and that's not a lot about us and about
0:23:10 own phobia and our own disposition and
0:23:13 our own alignment with the psychological
0:23:18 approach of the prophet sallallaahu ayah
0:23:20 he was sending because not every
0:23:22 question requires an answer not every
0:23:24 intellectual question requires an answer
0:23:26 because sometimes the sit over
0:23:28 underlying cause I remember you know I
0:23:31 had this Pakistani atheist come up to me
0:23:34 at one University and he basically said
0:23:37 that I did a master's in quantum physics
0:23:40 right and okay fair enough but then he
0:23:44 asked me this he didn't ask me a
0:23:45 question he said your argument for good
0:23:47 the good existence doesn't make sense
0:23:49 because causality doesn't make sense
0:23:53 outside of the universe now look you
0:23:55 know I have a philosophical kind of
0:23:57 understanding I could have given him the
0:23:59 Kantian argument I've got to give him
0:24:01 you know expose his philosophical
0:24:05 presupposition that he believes that
0:24:06 causality is derived for experience I
0:24:08 could have I could have turned the
0:24:09 tables on him but I didn't what I said
0:24:12 was is what do you mean by a causality
0:24:16 and where if you study Western medicine
0:24:20 they haven't ironed out what is the
0:24:21 nature of the co2
0:24:23 so he basically ends up saying I don't
0:24:26 know and I said to him isn't it very
0:24:29 interesting that you're using a keyword
0:24:31 in a sentence to deny God and you don't
0:24:35 know what that word means I said what's
0:24:37 up bro so I tried to connect with him
0:24:39 sat him down and you know what he said
0:24:40 to me he said I didn't know how to
0:24:44 connect with Allah I didn't pray hope
0:24:46 they didn't know how to connect with it
0:24:47 with Allah subhana WA Ta'ala
0:24:50 that's the apparent reason the story of
0:24:52 a while ago but that is quite telling
0:24:54 another example was in my town someone
0:24:57 says to me I was truly a debate of Louis
0:24:59 Krouse it was a great debate I'm still
0:25:01 an atheist you know what I said to him
0:25:03 was it him cause your parents bro he
0:25:06 just he spoke to me for a few minutes
0:25:08 talking about the kind of darkness of
0:25:11 his upbringing from I remember so he's
0:25:14 kind of a tease name or rejection of
0:25:16 Allah didn't have anything to do with
0:25:18 the question itself or his kind of
0:25:20 youthful new identity or any kind of
0:25:22 intellectual question it was probably to
0:25:24 do with some kind of psychodynamic end
0:25:25 of it there's a real interesting I took
0:25:28 my believe I forgot the name of the
0:25:32 author it's on your pain Institute and
0:25:34 it's about doubts and parenting and the
0:25:37 author she cites a really good reference
0:25:40 on you know the parents not pretending
0:25:44 telling their children what to do
0:25:46 concerning religious matters but not
0:25:47 following it themselves can be a source
0:25:50 of doubt later on in the upbringing of
0:25:52 the child over the child develops into
0:25:54 being a young adult so so I just wanted
0:25:59 to give those examples because you're
0:26:00 actually right leads me to another
0:26:02 question which is I just wanted to say
0:26:05 about that one thing I'm sorry on that
0:26:08 thing about the law I would say in terms
0:26:10 of if if the home is one of the largest
0:26:13 factors giving giving people serious
0:26:16 time in themselves and in their beliefs
0:26:17 in terms of the home one is obviously
0:26:20 the broken home
0:26:21 that's probably the worst kind of has
0:26:24 arrested them but also hypocrisy the
0:26:26 hypocrisy of a parent child may observe
0:26:30 it and not say anything about it but
0:26:32 it's perhaps one of the greatest causes
0:26:34 of the confusion in likely
0:26:36 I remember like teaching in a small
0:26:39 supplementary school and pair you know
0:26:43 I'm teaching the kids something you know
0:26:45 praying five times a day wake up in the
0:26:47 morning to pray and one 6000 puts his
0:26:49 hand up when I he says but tried waking
0:26:50 up for Fedya the morning don't pray
0:26:52 yesterday and my parents said go back to
0:26:54 sleep because you've got the parents
0:26:57 come on apparently they say my sons
0:26:59 learned everything he knows this stuff
0:27:00 while teaching the basics come here
0:27:03 I asked him you know so him still what
0:27:06 is it that I taught you about the five
0:27:07 prayers because you taught me well blast
0:27:09 it what why isn't it you were more able
0:27:10 to practice it at home and the parents
0:27:13 face was red and the parent knows I said
0:27:16 but then I let the parent you can send
0:27:18 him to the best documentary school in
0:27:19 the world but the first good is you you
0:27:22 are the first group and his stability
0:27:24 sense of safety happiness understanding
0:27:28 of right and wrong comes from your your
0:27:30 practice
0:27:30 he's not gonna he can listen to me all
0:27:32 day but he's going to follow your foot I
0:27:35 just can't emphasize it enough you know
0:27:38 the importance of holistic parenting so
0:27:40 here's the big question now from your
0:27:44 experience how you do with these type of
0:27:47 doubts
0:27:48 yeah there's a there's an interesting
0:27:50 thing that is is multifaceted
0:27:52 but it's depend it always depends on the
0:27:54 source you need to know you know for
0:27:57 every man chopping the leaves of the
0:27:58 tree there's one person hacking away at
0:28:00 the roots and so we have to be the
0:28:02 kayaking aware the roots what is the
0:28:03 root cause of your and that requires
0:28:06 people were able to converse with you
0:28:08 and get down to the bottom of it it
0:28:09 could even be a family friend a friend
0:28:11 just able to talk it out with someone to
0:28:13 say perhaps my issue is really about my
0:28:15 childhood home and I need to go to a
0:28:17 therapist or I need to you know
0:28:19 understand more about how Islam talks
0:28:21 about how to me that verse it what is
0:28:24 God's plan how does it work how can I
0:28:26 understand my past one of the most
0:28:28 beautiful examples of the Quran yeah is
0:28:31 that when God gives Moosa the prophet
0:28:33 Moses prophethood he gives him the task
0:28:36 the mission of prophethood being a
0:28:38 messenger and the ambassador of my
0:28:40 message God first explains to him his
0:28:43 own past his first reaction to God Stan
0:28:47 you're a prophet is ENIAC often you can
0:28:50 scared I'm scared they're going to
0:28:51 reject me they're going to tell me
0:28:53 expose it and God then explains to him
0:28:55 from his childhood what God did how his
0:28:59 life his perhaps from an outsider's
0:29:01 perspective apart a traumatic set of
0:29:03 events be thrown into a box his baby
0:29:06 growing up with a serial abuser dictator
0:29:09 as a father figure
0:29:10 killing someone by mistake being exiled
0:29:13 to me it's a traumatic it's not it's not
0:29:15 a normal way to grow up but forgot to
0:29:18 say that all of this was for a reason
0:29:19 and let it make sense to him and then
0:29:23 when explaining that to him Condon says
0:29:24 to him what's done Article II but see I
0:29:27 did all this because I chose you for me
0:29:29 I chose you to say all that drama that
0:29:33 difficulty that murder all this stuff
0:29:34 was for me so you don't be worried you
0:29:36 know you don't worry about it until hook
0:29:39 you and your brother now and with that
0:29:41 sense of understanding his past he is
0:29:43 now able to go his fear is gone so so
0:29:46 that getting to the root if it's an
0:29:48 emotional cause if it you don't
0:29:49 understand your past you've been through
0:29:50 something difficult to understand your
0:29:51 past
0:29:52 you can do it the route however there's
0:29:54 some specifically with the intellectual
0:29:56 questions so go ahead power water honor
0:30:03 is saying to moosa a lady Samantha this
0:30:05 is the correct meaning associated with
0:30:10 the events in your party don't give it
0:30:13 no meaning and one of the beautiful
0:30:15 things of trauma dealing with trauma
0:30:17 dealing with past experiences that that
0:30:21 may have caused some suffering or have
0:30:23 affected your well-being
0:30:24 even according to cognitive psychology
0:30:27 it's about the meaning that you give to
0:30:29 those events and in one way of
0:30:32 liberating yourself through livering
0:30:34 yourself from the suffering and from the
0:30:37 past in a negative way is by standing in
0:30:40 the possibility to give a different
0:30:43 meaning to those events you know muslims
0:30:47 allow a lot to give meaning to the past
0:30:50 don't don't usually give meaning to your
0:30:53 parts because sometimes what happens to
0:30:56 us we we have limited physical and
0:31:00 cognitive architecture right we're
0:31:02 limited means with
0:31:03 no everything will have limited past
0:31:04 experiences we're not you know pure
0:31:07 beings we have spiritual blemishes that
0:31:09 is going to become a lens in which you
0:31:12 view your past so you'd be like yeah but
0:31:14 they're always jealous of me and they're
0:31:17 always been like that that's coming
0:31:19 through you you are the lens in which
0:31:22 you see your past and this from the ego
0:31:25 it's from the nafs of the ego even
0:31:27 though you know you may feel a sense of
0:31:30 injustice because you've been harmed
0:31:32 rightly so how am i standing the
0:31:34 possibility to understand that the
0:31:36 meaning that you're giving to your past
0:31:38 is not the absolute truth the meaning
0:31:41 that's true is the meaning that Allah
0:31:43 gives and usually when it comes to these
0:31:46 scenarios
0:31:47 Allah gives us this kind of new realm of
0:31:51 possibility to understand our past in a
0:31:54 very powerful way just like the way he
0:31:57 spoke to Muhammad sallallahu alayhi wa
0:32:00 centre-right that Allah has not forsaken
0:32:02 you
0:32:03 right you know you were often took care
0:32:06 of you like I did you right
0:32:08 and then me if something that is
0:32:10 neglected in that kind of um dealing
0:32:13 with Muslims especially concerning the
0:32:15 doubts we say yeah is so bad that you
0:32:18 fine we should have empathy but we
0:32:20 should i empower them positively with
0:32:23 empathy and to state them standing the
0:32:26 possibility that the meaning that you're
0:32:28 giving to your past is actually not the
0:32:30 only meaning give it this meaning give
0:32:33 it the meaning that Allah and His
0:32:34 Messenger wants you to give it and you
0:32:36 see how you become liberated and it's
0:32:39 actually one of the greatest science of
0:32:40 what we call rely of the closeness to
0:32:42 God some people think that being overly
0:32:44 someone close to God involves in
0:32:46 applying some special miracles happening
0:32:48 to you
0:32:48 oh can you properly yeah and what is the
0:32:54 Prophet peace be upon him described the
0:32:56 signs of closeness to God as he mentions
0:32:59 in a kind of tradition and of a divine
0:33:02 tradition conveying on behalf of God you
0:33:05 know he says he sees and I am the eyes
0:33:11 of it he sees God says I'm the eyes of
0:33:12 you she sees and I am the lab that she
0:33:15 works with and I in the house which he
0:33:16 strikes
0:33:17 he no longer sees from his own
0:33:18 perspective you know in another
0:33:20 tradition the prophet stays you know be
0:33:21 wary of the close person close to God
0:33:24 for India who younger will be new Lila
0:33:25 this person sees with God's light not
0:33:27 his own you know he's not put his own
0:33:29 torch in the tunnel he's got a massive
0:33:31 lamp from above football stadium life
0:33:33 he's able to see much anything and it's
0:33:37 something that one graduate gradually
0:33:38 kind of a sense - it's not something
0:33:40 that immediately you can do but what is
0:33:43 it that helps you good one of the
0:33:44 greatest antidotes and being able to see
0:33:46 the bigger picture and God's perspective
0:33:47 is reading school I used the chapter of
0:33:50 Joseph because beautifully stan has
0:33:53 perhaps the most traumatic you know
0:33:55 throwing thrown by jealous brothers into
0:33:57 a well so does the slave etcetera etc
0:33:59 and yet at the same time what does he
0:34:01 keep saying what does this God keep
0:34:02 saying in nanhua Hallel you are unworthy
0:34:06 God does not waste the reward you know
0:34:09 he's thrown in prison and in prison
0:34:11 people come to him saying in nan de la
0:34:13 commune we're singing so amazing
0:34:15 everything you do just amazing so what
0:34:18 was the mindset that allowed him to do
0:34:20 that and and fulfilled his dream in the
0:34:23 end of again the meaning he assigned to
0:34:25 the world the meaning he assigned to his
0:34:27 slavery to his service to his prison
0:34:30 sentence you know we know you know like
0:34:34 people like Baba Rama there despite what
0:34:37 they've been through in terms of prison
0:34:39 and expose the way they're able to look
0:34:41 back and I know personally that one of
0:34:43 the greatest reasons he's able to see
0:34:45 with the different perspective is his
0:34:46 attachment to the chapter of Joseph in
0:34:49 and so it's it's that and what you're
0:34:54 mentioning is actually from my personal
0:34:55 perspective in the top three reasons
0:34:58 that most young Muslims leave Islam
0:35:01 suffering or misunderstanding are still
0:35:04 taking the wrong Phoenix just and that's
0:35:06 how you think about it go ahead go ahead
0:35:09 but sometimes we have you know Muslim
0:35:11 students at any age they would present
0:35:14 intellectual questions that they could
0:35:16 probably answer themselves if they did a
0:35:18 little bit of reading or what a book but
0:35:22 they still have that question as a kind
0:35:24 of you know veil that is hiding really
0:35:27 what's happening which is
0:35:30 these past experiences relationships how
0:35:34 they relate to their parents how they
0:35:35 relate to themselves you know lack of
0:35:37 self-esteem so those things are very
0:35:39 important and the reason I'm emphasizing
0:35:41 this is because though art people like
0:35:44 to share Islam on the public domain this
0:35:47 approach is not common like to do with
0:35:52 human beings your fellow Muslim even
0:35:54 non-muslims in a very kind of impact ik
0:35:56 way the way of the prophet sallallahu
0:35:59 alayhi wa send them to imaginatively
0:36:01 experience what they experience of
0:36:03 feeling what they're feeling to walk in
0:36:05 their shoes so and and that's why I
0:36:08 would like to emphasize is extremely
0:36:10 important to engage with people that way
0:36:12 because we know that you know answering
0:36:16 intellectual questions on is not going
0:36:18 to create an awakening it might do but
0:36:20 it could be something else you know I
0:36:22 think we had a discussion previously on
0:36:24 the concept of Islamic epistemology like
0:36:27 you know what is the human being the
0:36:29 human being has a pit Rock has an innate
0:36:32 disposition and in that innate
0:36:34 disposition is you know proper forms of
0:36:37 knowledge but Allah is a reality that
0:36:39 he's worthy of praise and he's worthy of
0:36:41 worship but that gets crowded you know
0:36:44 you go to chapter 13 verse 30 you go to
0:36:46 the I didn't study Muslim was quite
0:36:48 famous about every child is born in the
0:36:50 state of Petra so the society changes
0:36:54 him specifically the treatment parents
0:36:56 but could the early amount of scholars
0:36:58 mentioned other things so the fitler
0:37:00 gets crowded in a way how would you
0:37:03 unclog the fitrah well it depends what
0:37:05 cloud you're talking about
0:37:07 is it the relationship with the parents
0:37:08 is that cloud there because their
0:37:10 intellectual questions is that cloud
0:37:12 there because someone doesn't do that
0:37:14 after the remembrance of God in the
0:37:16 morning in the evening is that how their
0:37:18 because going on a read Quran will do
0:37:20 Saddam both hundreds over the Quran or
0:37:21 someone who's distant from God is that
0:37:24 cloud there because of excessive sinning
0:37:26 and dissipating it is moving away from
0:37:28 the true path so we don't know but the
0:37:31 way to find out is to empathize and
0:37:33 choose question and probe human being
0:37:35 with that person and then you may
0:37:36 realize actually I may need to use some
0:37:40 intellectual arguments but they need
0:37:42 also good really
0:37:43 with a Muslim and they only only
0:37:45 understand their Tomer and in a
0:37:47 different way so now you've got three
0:37:49 approaches to unclouded the fifth one to
0:37:51 awaken the truth within so but the key
0:37:55 is that it's a long-term process or it's
0:37:57 a it's a process it's the the idea that
0:38:01 some passionate are debating in various
0:38:05 places have that I'm gonna give a
0:38:07 positive strong rebuttal or an argument
0:38:10 and everyone's doubts are going to
0:38:12 disappear
0:38:12 human beings are complex they need
0:38:15 somebody to slowly guide and nurture
0:38:17 them this is the prophetic method of
0:38:19 Tavia right then nurturing the
0:38:21 cultivating of a person so they can come
0:38:22 out of what they were in and push them
0:38:24 into a state of belief and certainty and
0:38:26 that the idea that we would be kind of
0:38:30 insulting to people and be sure
0:38:31 reductive to say that yeah you go here's
0:38:33 a cup of arguments now come on let's
0:38:35 pray the night prayer III suppose that
0:38:41 I've written a book about this and I'm
0:38:43 supposed to be some kind of you know
0:38:45 so-called implements leader or and on
0:38:48 these issues even in my progression it
0:38:51 didn't work on me I remember it used to
0:38:53 give an answer to an apostate and that
0:38:56 person from I remember became Muslim
0:38:57 again but I wasn't satisfied with the
0:39:00 often satisfied until I heard it from
0:39:04 somebody else I was thinking why did
0:39:07 that happen well the reason that
0:39:09 happened it's not because of the answer
0:39:10 itself is because who was I when I was
0:39:13 listening to myself or listening to the
0:39:15 person at that stage in my progression
0:39:17 was I someone doing the victim in the
0:39:20 morning the evening was I so much
0:39:21 spiritually achieved probably no and
0:39:24 what I noticed was when I was more
0:39:26 connected to Allah engaging in the
0:39:28 spiritual practices the things that
0:39:30 punish the heart the vicar of almost
0:39:32 power was out of that the remembrance of
0:39:35 God
0:39:35 everything has a punished and the punish
0:39:37 of the heart is the nikkor of allah is
0:39:38 that remembrance of allah so and you see
0:39:41 your spiritual state affects the way you
0:39:44 even understand intellectual once's yeah
0:39:47 ayuk seen waste money oh I've seen it in
0:39:50 your hamsa I've seen it when you come to
0:39:52 visit University over the years I've
0:39:54 seen a 360 degree
0:39:56 shift every year no no no very
0:40:02 positively in the way you answer
0:40:04 questions like this is not any way to
0:40:07 praise you just to for you to get
0:40:08 feedback people can feel the empathy the
0:40:11 spirituality the holistic nature with
0:40:13 which your cup with which are coming to
0:40:14 them now and they maybe don't know the
0:40:17 journey behind the seats but that the
0:40:20 liquor the idea of the vicar what it
0:40:21 does is relating to the pitman is it
0:40:24 kind of extracts the under all the
0:40:26 rumble the needle seed of the pizza was
0:40:27 still there the dhikr just kind of pulls
0:40:30 it out sit here come along you know it
0:40:32 was there but there's so much rubbish on
0:40:34 top and they could is work and Nikoli so
0:40:37 many forms you know one of the forms of
0:40:39 vicar is learning studying about your
0:40:40 illness leaking knowledge one of the
0:40:42 foam greatest forms of apps one of the
0:40:44 most abandoned homes is reflecting
0:40:47 contemplating the physical world around
0:40:49 this is this is also we say that Oh God
0:40:53 says in quran God goes first on well
0:40:56 these are good signs as well you know
0:40:58 God has two types of signs written kind
0:41:00 of scriptural and he also has physical
0:41:02 where are we from the way to immerse in
0:41:04 our digital device and that's another
0:41:06 thing with students one of the greatest
0:41:08 addictions of our time even for myself
0:41:09 is technology and because they are so
0:41:13 disconnected from the outside world they
0:41:15 are so knocked in University has one of
0:41:18 the most eco-friendly beautiful campuses
0:41:20 in the world and I always our students
0:41:23 when they come saying I'm not really
0:41:24 sure God exists have you been to
0:41:26 University Lake have you seen the geese
0:41:28 crossing the road have you tried talking
0:41:30 to the spirits no we have a lake on
0:41:33 campus do we so this person has no
0:41:37 connection with nature they've never
0:41:39 looked at a tree I thought how long is
0:41:41 this complexity get they've not looked
0:41:44 at the animals own thing look at the
0:41:45 different types of feet look at the
0:41:46 different size where do where did this
0:41:48 don't come from they've never had that
0:41:49 question so of course if what if their
0:41:52 only source of information is black and
0:41:55 white lines on a book or videos it's all
0:41:57 abstract you can get lost in your mind
0:42:00 in circles but the moment you see a
0:42:01 squirrel jump up into a tree pluck an
0:42:03 aerco a corner and think now that's not
0:42:06 that couldn't have been my crops this is
0:42:08 what God says in the Quran
0:42:10 talk to our rule albert the people of
0:42:11 sound my penis when they look at
0:42:15 everything they say ramanamma hotel her
0:42:19 stool behind but you couldn't have
0:42:22 created this for no reason how above you
0:42:25 are or bothered you up and so is that
0:42:29 fit for a lewd album the people of pure
0:42:30 essence are just people of the fit
0:42:32 people who were able to purify that seat
0:42:34 yeah like I remember North Wales or
0:42:37 doing some camping and a budget time we
0:42:39 paid budget and I actually did she
0:42:41 looked into the sky and I saw an ocean
0:42:45 of stars layers upon layers of stars I
0:42:48 choked
0:42:49 I didn't know it took me over 35 years
0:42:53 to experience that but I just chopped
0:42:57 and I think it's because sometimes were
0:42:58 so disconnected from nature were so
0:43:01 disconnected from the signs of Allah
0:43:02 spinal water adder that it does affect
0:43:05 the Hitler I think there was this kind
0:43:07 of anecdotal but there might be some
0:43:10 research in this that atheism has
0:43:12 increased because of the increasing
0:43:16 would you record it synthetic lights
0:43:19 sticky you know there's a lot of light
0:43:22 pollution you can't see the stars
0:43:23 anymore right so there are for me to
0:43:26 look into you so ok so that's how you do
0:43:28 what they kind of spiritual type of
0:43:30 doubts you know trying it and obviously
0:43:32 each each thing you're saying requires
0:43:35 another video yeah there's a lot to go
0:43:37 unpack there but as a as a general point
0:43:40 you know look look at the suffering and
0:43:43 the kind of you know maybe the the
0:43:46 problematic relations we had with
0:43:47 yourself with your parents and trying to
0:43:49 give it a meaning that is not based on
0:43:52 your national based on your limited
0:43:54 understanding but I mean it's more
0:43:55 empowering that give you remote
0:43:56 possibility to free yourself from that
0:43:59 past and and that meaning is the meaning
0:44:01 that Allah wants and the meaning that
0:44:03 the prophets of Obama I need was some is
0:44:06 giving us through the various traditions
0:44:08 the other thing is that you mentioned
0:44:10 was about coming close fellowship
0:44:11 hangover to either doing if they curve
0:44:14 reading the Quran becoming a student of
0:44:17 knowledge and also just reflecting in
0:44:20 nature not becoming very kind of based
0:44:23 on on you know synthetic stuff like
0:44:26 technology but being be someone who's
0:44:28 more connected to the signs of allah
0:44:29 subhanallah kana so these are very
0:44:31 important thing to do with the kind of
0:44:32 spiritual type of doubts and each one
0:44:34 requires unpacking which we may have to
0:44:37 bring you again to unpack each one what
0:44:40 does it need to become a stability what
0:44:41 does it mean to do your vicar what does
0:44:43 it mean to you know try and give the
0:44:45 meaning a different meaning to your
0:44:47 posture standing the possibility to get
0:44:49 actually different meaning to your past
0:44:51 rather than the negative meaning or the
0:44:53 meaning that is not a powering and they
0:44:55 mean that doesn't give you a sense of
0:44:56 you know liberation series talking to me
0:45:01 the technology so so so we'll have to
0:45:05 unpack that another time so let's now
0:45:08 move on to the intellectual type of dots
0:45:10 could you had an interesting point here
0:45:12 and you know what you make me think
0:45:13 about this because I mentioned this to
0:45:14 some of the brothers and I was like I
0:45:16 spoke to check this out and he basically
0:45:18 I'm going to introduce you and only to
0:45:21 unpack it in detail
0:45:22 he said don't focus much on the
0:45:24 questions and that make enough
0:45:27 composition wise something if people
0:45:30 watching public intellectuals you know
0:45:33 because we have a responsibility as bad
0:45:35 as people want to share Islam people who
0:45:38 are on YouTube the responsibility has to
0:45:41 be one of the genuine a genuine
0:45:44 commitment to the well-being of people
0:45:46 who read and absorb and watch your
0:45:49 material and not genuine sincere
0:45:53 commitment to their well-being
0:45:54 must be very a thought must be thought
0:45:57 about in a deep way and you and you you
0:46:00 may have to come to the confusion that
0:46:02 it's not about answering all the
0:46:03 questions because why if you answer all
0:46:06 the questions what have you assumed that
0:46:08 there's going to be another question
0:46:10 that may in the future possibly that may
0:46:14 be a source of doubt and the solution to
0:46:17 that question is not them it's you you
0:46:21 made them dependent Ram created
0:46:22 independence you know you do we can lay
0:46:26 any for our conversation holes in the
0:46:28 car on the side of words some
0:46:30 carriageway right with something that's
0:46:34 so powerful that is so deep because
0:46:36 don't get me wrong we have to answer
0:46:38 questions resolved but it has to be done
0:46:40 in a way that's so empowering that takes
0:46:43 the person on the journey so they can
0:46:45 become their own intellectual spiritual
0:46:48 leader in their own way yes you still
0:46:49 have to have really mad and we have to
0:46:51 be at their feet and study with them and
0:46:53 all of that stuff but generally speaking
0:46:55 you must have some kind of sense of
0:46:59 stability rather than waiting for the
0:47:01 next day to answer the question on
0:47:03 YouTube so we could be satisfied and
0:47:05 thing is they don't have access to you
0:47:07 guys as well right you know I on campus
0:47:10 there are maybe between 500 and a
0:47:12 thousand Muslims they don't know it most
0:47:14 of them don't have access to me and I am
0:47:16 their dedicated chaplain you know so and
0:47:19 then they have access to people like you
0:47:21 know Imams and messiahs perhaps in the
0:47:23 local masajid who when they come up with
0:47:25 the questions they like just go away
0:47:27 don't ask these questions so they don't
0:47:30 have access to you so all they have
0:47:32 access is to sell hundreds videos
0:47:33 brother access videos dispersal videos
0:47:36 and they they watch them aloft and I
0:47:37 know personally almost with perhaps
0:47:40 without fail every student I've spoken
0:47:42 to has done who has had doubts have been
0:47:45 watching your videos no Meah Meah and
0:47:48 you don't know the reward unlike you see
0:47:50 from the may Allah give us this day and
0:47:51 they're like yeah but then they have a
0:47:55 dependency now on you they need hamza
0:47:57 now i have second answer where is he one
0:48:01 thing that we have failed myself the
0:48:06 famous speakers people who like you know
0:48:09 about huge YouTube channels people are
0:48:11 involved in this air of work and massive
0:48:13 failure is not creating leaders why mean
0:48:19 by that is not illegal at their famous
0:48:22 but elite that they could take
0:48:23 leadership over their own life and over
0:48:27 their own kind of intellectual spiritual
0:48:30 certainty where they don't have to wait
0:48:33 for the next YouTube clip for a question
0:48:35 to the answer but they have a solid
0:48:38 foundation and grounding and they can
0:48:40 distinguish between questions that are
0:48:42 nice to have
0:48:43 answered yeah but they don't really
0:48:45 fundamentally undermine my spiritual
0:48:48 intellectual well-being and questions
0:48:51 that need to be solved and I now have
0:48:53 the tools and I am empowered to take to
0:48:57 walk on that path to try and solve those
0:48:59 issues myself but what we've done we
0:49:02 created this kind of crazy celebrity
0:49:06 type of dependency of speakers and
0:49:08 YouTube when the next question was the
0:49:10 next next answer and that kind of
0:49:13 narrative must create a social construct
0:49:15 that keeps us dependent on those people
0:49:18 yeah the analogy was almost you know how
0:49:22 we deal with healthcare in the West you
0:49:24 know a lot of people every little flu I
0:49:26 have see the doctor you go to the east
0:49:28 Eastern traditions it's very
0:49:30 self-service or I'll make the soup I've
0:49:32 got this mystic powder that goes into
0:49:34 this water I'll take care of my stuff
0:49:36 you know it's also a key to the idea of
0:49:39 creating first stages you know a doctors
0:49:42 can't do everything but the first ADA is
0:49:45 able to deal with certain emergency
0:49:46 instance to create people who just have
0:49:49 some basic principles with which they
0:49:50 have the mindset of being able to deal
0:49:52 with their own task and helping even
0:49:53 their immediate circles we need a
0:49:56 hundred thousand of those first stages
0:49:57 intellectual first stages so how do you
0:50:02 do with this what do you you have an
0:50:04 approach so what's your approach to this
0:50:07 kind of so when I when I talk to
0:50:11 university students and in some
0:50:13 presentations Hispanic societies I
0:50:15 offered like kind of a process of how to
0:50:18 deal with the doubt um the first one is
0:50:21 to assess something in there they're
0:50:22 called Rondon with a fairly healing work
0:50:24 to link something or doubtful about back
0:50:29 to this kind of basic principle you are
0:50:31 very sure about so say for example let's
0:50:33 take a to make it clear you're not sure
0:50:37 about say for example why do the Prophet
0:50:41 Muhammad peace be upon him do X Y Z you
0:50:43 a question and why did he do this it
0:50:45 seems a bit unjust now this is a
0:50:49 question mark right your doubt probably
0:50:51 but what are you absolutely sure from
0:50:53 your upbringing from what you've read
0:50:54 from what you understand is a
0:50:56 the character of this man Muhammad peace
0:50:57 upon his expression by the witness
0:51:00 testimony of his own friends by those of
0:51:02 his foes by non-muslim intellect
0:51:05 everyone just testifies for this man's
0:51:06 character what I'm absolutely sure of is
0:51:09 he was an exception here that's what I'm
0:51:11 not sure of is this little incident so I
0:51:14 will find an answer to this incident
0:51:16 eventually but I am still sure about his
0:51:18 exception and until I find overwhelming
0:51:21 evidence that that is false
0:51:22 I'm not going to throw the baby out with
0:51:24 the bathwater I'm going to find answer
0:51:27 inshallah I will ask the Christian
0:51:29 community who has got this a source of
0:51:31 knowledge if you don't know I will ask
0:51:32 but first I have to reassure as I say
0:51:35 that's the first step reassure yourself
0:51:37 of your fundamentals no foundation maybe
0:51:40 you realize I don't have foundation
0:51:41 there's a crisis maybe we have to
0:51:44 revisit maybe we have to go back to the
0:51:46 Quran for example surah kahf is one
0:51:48 particular chapter in the Quran I
0:51:49 recommend for those who feel like they
0:51:51 don't really have the firm foundations
0:51:52 of belief to go back to God himself
0:51:54 proving his own existence the day of the
0:51:57 day of resurrection is that I said
0:51:58 simple simple arguments that appeal to
0:52:01 your basic humans to set the foundation
0:52:04 if you don't have one but then always
0:52:06 whenever it rains get under your shelter
0:52:09 and reflect what do I know to be true
0:52:11 all right this thing I'm not sure about
0:52:13 one thing I am sure for 1400 years
0:52:15 someone has come up with this question
0:52:16 and there is an answer but I'm not gonna
0:52:19 baby up with a lot that's the first
0:52:21 principle that's based on the prophetic
0:52:23 principle which is really a Sunni
0:52:25 principle right which is the law and now
0:52:27 doubt to override certainty so you focus
0:52:32 on what's fundamental so you can apply
0:52:34 this to anything for example why is the
0:52:36 Hellfire
0:52:37 why is helped by eternal you have all of
0:52:39 these questions well what are we certain
0:52:41 about here we are circling alive and
0:52:43 Hakim he has the totality of wisdom
0:52:46 alleged and Ali is the own knowing Allah
0:52:49 is the most just is a ROM and intensely
0:52:53 merciful his elbow dude he's the love it
0:52:55 so we know that's the case so just
0:52:59 because we've been over to answer
0:53:01 particular question concerning for
0:53:02 example eternal punishment does it
0:53:04 undermined what we know to be true all
0:53:07 the years it shows our own address
0:53:09 limitations and that helps you shape
0:53:14 your your journey allows you to continue
0:53:19 your journey to find an answer in a way
0:53:20 that doesn't undermine the foundations
0:53:22 right and that's what it be comfortable
0:53:24 with that question as well so much
0:53:26 interrupt you sir
0:53:27 yeah one thing just want to say when you
0:53:29 have a question to remember that they
0:53:31 were prophets in the Quran that God
0:53:32 mentions having questioned apparently
0:53:35 questioned God when Ibrahim the Prophet
0:53:37 Abraham says to God from being in kafir
0:53:40 to promote I've gone she told me how he
0:53:42 resurrected it God says I'll well that
0:53:44 took me do you not believe
0:53:45 have you not got faith no matter what I
0:53:48 can be up to my enough fun be I just
0:53:49 want to find contentment in my heart he
0:53:51 wants to see other to your pain he was
0:53:53 on his level of me because seeing is not
0:53:55 the same as believing so haven't been
0:53:57 comfortable that I've got a question and
0:53:58 it's just going to increase my my kind
0:54:01 of belief my foundation very interesting
0:54:03 point so if you see asking questions
0:54:07 from that perspective it's not about
0:54:10 becoming certain it's about increasing
0:54:13 my different levels of certainty because
0:54:15 in the panic of all yes there are three
0:54:17 main levels of certainty you have a
0:54:20 madea pain which is the yeah pain of
0:54:22 knowledge you have I know yet pain the
0:54:23 pain of seeing and the happen yeah pain
0:54:25 which is it's part of your own reality
0:54:29 meaning you know say someone tells you
0:54:32 by a text and you trust them that your
0:54:35 next-door neighbor's house is on fire
0:54:36 that's anybody a pain I walk outside of
0:54:40 the door and I look up the houses on
0:54:42 fire
0:54:42 that's ionia pain the pain of seeing it
0:54:45 right and what happened appears I'm in
0:54:48 their house and it's on fire and I could
0:54:50 feel yeah yeah yeah 34 different levels
0:54:54 of certainty so that very way of seeing
0:54:56 it you have yuppie intellectual culture
0:55:00 conviction I'm just increasing the
0:55:02 levels of my conviction through these
0:55:03 questions if I have strong foundations
0:55:06 so this is why it's so important to keep
0:55:09 on reinforcing the foundations so people
0:55:12 could anchor off that and when they do
0:55:13 these questions they'll be like why not
0:55:15 what's certain here and I can continue
0:55:18 my journey to increase that certainty
0:55:19 rather than trying to find certainty
0:55:22 right this is why the problematic nature
0:55:25 of which wanna answer the questions to
0:55:28 someone who doesn't have the foundations
0:55:29 would create that kind of vicious circle
0:55:32 of doubts and even maybe traumatic
0:55:36 spiritual experience of not being to
0:55:38 find that that their space and their
0:55:40 place in the world and this existential
0:55:42 anxiety so tell us more about the your
0:55:47 foundational teachings because I want to
0:55:51 talk about you now and Link this whole
0:55:53 doubts things to what your what would
0:55:55 you do in your in your public work
0:55:57 recently you had around twenty thirty or
0:56:01 thirty thirty over the code to tell us
0:56:03 about that any course that you're
0:56:05 developing
0:56:05 bitesize tell us as well about you know
0:56:09 the other things that you've been doing
0:56:11 to create those foundations for the the
0:56:14 Muslims so they're able to basically
0:56:16 start from a position of certainty then
0:56:18 start increasing this sure I've been in
0:56:23 my chaplaincy work I've been constantly
0:56:24 perplexed by the level of doubt that I'm
0:56:27 seeing and the level of Sirius Star
0:56:30 people leaving the faith people just
0:56:32 kind of losing hope people dropping out
0:56:35 of university et cetera cetera and on
0:56:36 the last year's been playing on my mind
0:56:38 was the solution was my solution is my
0:56:41 solution to give them a few answer to
0:56:43 the question is well I'm not teaching
0:56:44 the man to fish I'm giving him fish and
0:56:45 if he's going back hungry for more he's
0:56:47 going to be hungry he's got a hungry
0:56:48 belly um so what I eventually did was I
0:56:51 thought then Easter
0:56:53 someone needs to be able to set up these
0:56:55 foundations and give me the University
0:56:57 students with the attention span of
0:56:59 goldfish they're always on their phones
0:57:01 it needs to be bite-size you know I
0:57:05 remember once like telling student to go
0:57:08 and watch a certain speakers see a lot
0:57:10 of videos in order to answer some
0:57:11 questions um and he immediately went
0:57:14 from a message me instead brav the video
0:57:17 is two hours long I can't do this thing
0:57:20 this is the language you know that's
0:57:23 that's what he's at
0:57:24 I am sending him something where I'm at
0:57:26 I could probably watch that two-hour
0:57:27 video and I'd enjoy it but he's not
0:57:29 there so the idea of creating a platform
0:57:31 of bite-sized education and also
0:57:35 creating a foundation
0:57:36 so what I talked about if you don't have
0:57:38 your foundations to this foundation so
0:57:39 in Rome about this year as everything
0:57:41 went offline I try to just create a
0:57:44 small online course for my local
0:57:45 university police time to site and I
0:57:47 call it for an 20 20 20 sewers in copy
0:57:50 days it's at the moment website is in
0:57:55 development but it's called in Charlotte
0:57:57 will be called roots Academy code at UK
0:58:00 something else that you did the 2020
0:58:03 yeah when I'm 2020 it had a if you want
0:58:06 to visit the course you can visit bitly
0:58:09 or slash around 2020 means the IT dot ly
0:58:13 post around 2020
0:58:15 so 20 minutes a day for 20 days you
0:58:17 learned the meanings of 20 students and
0:58:19 my goal is through God's words himself
0:58:22 learn the nature of cookies well who
0:58:24 Allah who teaches goddess for example
0:58:26 but with the direct relationship with
0:58:28 the Quran and I just made it for my
0:58:32 local Islamic society and then I just
0:58:34 posted on my timeline and the next thing
0:58:35 I know 3500 people signed up
0:58:38 well I realized it there's a demand
0:58:40 there's a new information give me the
0:58:42 big dolly /did work around 2020 did it
0:58:48 work
0:58:49 no you went to 25 20 24 on ok nothing's
0:58:56 when you're not set up ah there we go
0:59:00 yeah it does least 2020 the idea is that
0:59:08 you start a bit a structured course 20
0:59:10 videos you can you have multiple choice
0:59:14 questions geography education Quran 2020
0:59:17 build a foundation studying the crimes
0:59:19 meanings and role for free well
0:59:22 researched
0:59:23 testimonials and you're gonna have your
0:59:26 other stuff on here right yet the idea
0:59:29 is to build six courses that teach one
0:59:32 subject most unknown subject 15 minutes
0:59:34 a day in 20 days so the c-loc the life
0:59:37 of the Prophet PC by 50 mates a day in
0:59:39 20 days each course will come with a
0:59:41 designed workbook you can work through
0:59:43 in your own time
0:59:43 each video has quick multiple-choice
0:59:46 questions reflection prompt you can
0:59:48 write your answer
0:59:50 you're saying good things about that
0:59:52 says it all I'm the dealer possible you
0:59:54 had a gunpoint
0:59:56 so your stuffs gonna be on here just
1:00:00 going to help build the foundations
1:00:02 which is going to basically deal with
1:00:03 the kind of maybe just stop sharing the
1:00:07 screen because going
1:00:09 so that's brilliant so people can access
1:00:11 that you said how many students
1:00:13 registered 3,000 you said about yeah
1:00:15 about 2500 students from about 30
1:00:17 countries no money thing just wanna [ __ ]
1:00:20 me what that means this is phenomenal
1:00:23 I have never let money have 81
1:00:26 registered my webinars that many and I'm
1:00:30 supposed to have like thousands of
1:00:32 people follow and what does this mean
1:00:34 this means a few things if number one
1:00:37 market oh my mom
1:00:38 yeah going no it means number one there
1:00:41 is a neat number two sometimes maybe the
1:00:44 way we communicate is too high level we
1:00:46 need someone to break things down
1:00:47 further also what it means is that there
1:00:53 is many people need a resource to deal
1:00:57 with these questions and it also means
1:00:58 that YouTube is not doing it now we need
1:01:02 to empower and we need to basically
1:01:04 create material I know many other people
1:01:08 are doing it many Institute's they're
1:01:10 doing great work but that that
1:01:12 face-to-face empowering that is so
1:01:15 important and that's how you create
1:01:17 future needed and that's how you create
1:01:19 people who have those from foundations
1:01:21 because reading an article watching a
1:01:23 video is just not enough you have to go
1:01:25 through a process and this for me is is
1:01:28 like the cinema of you know the Islamic
1:01:31 tradition if you like he's the Sunna of
1:01:33 Allah that you sit with someone and
1:01:35 there's I always say to people one line
1:01:38 you're gonna learn from someone that you
1:01:41 can't learn from a piece of writing or
1:01:44 just by listening to a video when you go
1:01:47 through that process with someone
1:01:48 something happens it is like almost
1:01:50 divine unwritten rule and we see this
1:01:53 included the share of the Prophet
1:01:55 sallallahu alayhi wasallam
1:01:57 he was debris debris alayhi Salaam the
1:02:01 the the share of their of this aha
1:02:03 the prophet sallallaahu ID Huson the
1:02:05 chef of it of the tambourine it was the
1:02:08 Sahaba and so on and so forth we need to
1:02:10 have that connection to our tradition
1:02:12 it's kind of a lively dynamic way even
1:02:14 even if it means during 15 minutes a day
1:02:17 for 15 days of 20 minutes a day for 20
1:02:19 days if something happens to you and yes
1:02:22 and we it doesn't always work because
1:02:25 youtube doesn't work just reading a book
1:02:26 doesn't work all the time
1:02:28 you need someone to take you on that
1:02:29 journey which is para islamic tradition
1:02:32 not only horizontal tradition is carbon
1:02:34 universal law concerning inquiring and
1:02:37 internalizing knowledge not just
1:02:39 knowledge but changing your state of
1:02:40 being because you can't change how you
1:02:43 relate to yourself relate to others and
1:02:45 how you relate to a large just through
1:02:46 knowledge knowledge doesn't give you
1:02:49 access to being and what I mean by
1:02:51 knowledge is the abstract knowledge
1:02:52 reality knowledge doesn't give you
1:02:55 access to be coming to me beautiful
1:02:58 story Hamza there was a particular there
1:03:00 was a particular brother who had who is
1:03:02 a student of knowledge and everything by
1:03:04 completely sixty degree turn he lost all
1:03:06 faith and he was mostly learning through
1:03:08 YouTube lectures taking notes memorizing
1:03:11 trying to study very kind of eager to
1:03:12 learn and he was having serious doubts
1:03:15 he was like about to just forget it all
1:03:18 and leave and I took him to meet one of
1:03:21 my teachers not in this country in a
1:03:23 Middle Eastern country and we prayed to
1:03:25 Allah together you can finally I'll just
1:03:27 pray this time for you he picks a lot
1:03:29 together and then we both watched as my
1:03:32 teacher praised Allah and well I saw
1:03:37 tears in his eyes and he said I just
1:03:41 said what are you doing what do you mean
1:03:42 what's going on he goes I saw God
1:03:45 through this man's eyes I just saw God I
1:03:48 that experience just seeing the
1:03:50 certainty the way this man carries and
1:03:52 his conviction God I've seen him he
1:03:55 exists and it's strange you might think
1:03:57 like it but it's an unspoken reality
1:03:58 knowledge you should be taking person to
1:04:00 us obviously the online doesn't give you
1:04:02 anything of that nature maybe 1% but
1:04:05 we'll take 1% we'll take what we can
1:04:07 this day in age especially under
1:04:09 lockdown this is no way to belittle
1:04:11 what's happening it's just to show that
1:04:13 we need a little bit more
1:04:14 intellectually and spiritually mature to
1:04:17 take our dour to the next level to make
1:04:20 people understand it's know about
1:04:21 producing content all the time like
1:04:23 we've become like a Chinese is a
1:04:26 clothing factory or something that with
1:04:27 this period is these items and it's it's
1:04:33 not just about content content content
1:04:34 is it's also the means it's also the
1:04:38 medium of delivery and the interaction
1:04:40 is another human being as more learning
1:04:41 they need some in some way so it's very
1:04:44 behind the course merchants rupture the
1:04:47 vision behind the set these set of
1:04:49 courses is that it's all a lot of that
1:04:51 if Allah gives us to be by October these
1:04:54 six courses will be ready Sierra in 20
1:04:56 days is found intellectual foundations
1:04:58 in 20 days 20 scholars in 20 days etc 6
1:05:01 and it would run every year from October
1:05:04 to June in the student timetable with
1:05:06 the breaks for exams with the commitment
1:05:09 of only 15 minutes today and one live
1:05:11 session 3 tea
1:05:12 they'd be discussion chat students can
1:05:15 email the instructors at any time to get
1:05:17 reassurance a listening ear anything
1:05:20 they'd like and it should be in short a
1:05:22 life could be if I can have anything to
1:05:24 do with it would be free of cost
1:05:25 completely
1:05:26 targeting the 17 to 25 age bracket in
1:05:29 terms of where the content is delivered
1:05:31 but that is no reason someone older
1:05:33 younger company so that's in genre
1:05:35 hopefully what I aspire to deliver with
1:05:37 the help of a very committed team in oK
1:05:43 we've done over now so we have to close
1:05:45 it here what we're going to do is
1:05:46 there's so much here that we've
1:05:48 mentioned that needs unpacking yeah so
1:05:51 what we'll do bring you again shortly in
1:05:53 Charlotte and we'll unpack some of these
1:05:55 key concepts how to do with the
1:05:58 spiritual dance the internet results but
1:06:00 for now I'd like to thank you Jeff for
1:06:04 giving us your time because time is the
1:06:06 most precious thing you know if I said
1:06:08 you you had one day left to live in
1:06:09 order to have another ten days you have
1:06:12 to give me all of your wealth you throw
1:06:13 all of your wealth at me you know to
1:06:16 have just another 10 days and that just
1:06:17 goes to show how full time is and we
1:06:19 forget now if someone breaks your mobile
1:06:21 own you go crazy that's all it takes one
1:06:23 out of your time it's not a problem
1:06:25 we've lost the plot right
1:06:27 so unless you suck we're here for the
1:06:29 opportunity and for everyone watching
1:06:31 there's lots that we mentioned we're
1:06:33 going to unpack unpack them insha'Allah
1:06:34 so my best you any final words from your
1:06:37 daughter nothing just to thank you Hamza
1:06:40 for the work that you do and not to
1:06:41 underestimate your own work and how much
1:06:43 it's helped the students I've dealt with
1:06:44 so now that about you thank you for
1:06:46 having this conversation I never dreamed
1:06:48 we'd have this conversation but may
1:06:49 Allah reward you and may Allah help
1:06:51 those who are struggling and those were
1:06:52 funny difficult and if anybody is having
1:06:55 wants to have a conversation anybody
1:06:57 wants to upload what they're going to
1:07:00 have a discussion in short Allah my
1:07:04 email address or my if you search acacia
1:07:07 I'm Jeff I should find a public page
1:07:09 feel free to message me and we can have
1:07:11 a discussion a holistic discussion
1:07:14 please go to hashem jafar ali the
1:07:18 facebook page you could contact him
1:07:20 there and you have anything you want to
1:07:22 deal with in a holistic way over a
1:07:23 period of time to create those
1:07:25 awakenings
1:07:25 he's your man gives your chef and I
1:07:28 bless you take care guys I'm gonna do
1:07:30 another live in a couple of days
1:07:31 insha'Allah Salam alaikum uncle - money
1:07:33 already